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VE, you posted you would prefer nomination discussion to be held post Day 2 Dawn - when scum lynch candidates are released.
My motive for the quote was along the lines of: the candidates are going to be chosen based on play Day 1. Yes that statement is obvious, hoever what I am trying to highlight is that effort needs to be made to make the decision for scum difficult.
I listed 4 scenarios scum can take; we can't control that decision. What we can CONTROL is the viability of one of those options - to me, this is of benefit to town as it reduces WIFOM choices.
I thought my message(s) were clear cut, but, perhaps I am not communicating myself effectively. If not, please let me know.
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On February 06 2013 16:26 phagga wrote:Hi all. I generally will not be around at deadlines, around this postings time will probably be the earliest you see me post. You can find my game history in my profile. @Mocsta Show nested quote +On February 06 2013 12:23 Mocsta wrote:
You realise that your post structure is mimicking your play from Mafia LIX right? (You were scum)
Agreed, the things I am writing about are not revelations. Is this game that solved for you, that anytime someone writes something it has to be 100% original and never heard of before? Is that your criteria of good town play?
If you want me to expound on what constitutes solid town play. It is to avoid the copying your play.
And I will comment on this for one last time.
The game is not as simple as "lynch the scummiest player"; otherwise scummy looking town like you would be insta-voted off. This game requires more reason and effort put into cases to identify motives behind actions.
If you cant see that, you may as well quit and let someone who wants to take this game seriously replace you. What was your rationale behind posting the bolded part?
Hi Phagga
Covered here
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=395690¤tpage=11#211
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I can work with that.
I did think Snaffs was onto something when he hinted me n oats wanted the same thing.
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On February 06 2013 16:42 Oatsmaster wrote:
Ok Mocsta,
What do you propose to improve the quality of the town players?
Back to the one liner posts. You know in Mafia LIX, I kept saying in the Obs QT when you do it, its scummy as fuck.
No one believed me.. except the flip.
As for your question. I dont propose how anyone else does that besides myself.
I have already stated what actions I will be taking.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=395690¤tpage=10#198
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On February 06 2013 16:46 Oatsmaster wrote:
Fuck you VE, I WILL NEVER SUBMIT. I AM ALWAYS RIGHT AND ALL OF YOU ARE FOOLS.
==================
My thoughts using your words.
On February 06 2013 11:46 Oatsmaster wrote:
whats the point of writing this.
On February 06 2013 13:29 Oatsmaster wrote:
And I dont know why a town player would do this, therefore you are scum.
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Oats,
Stop getting over-defensive. Now you have to spell out actions.
If you couldnt tell my post was a joke, you have problems.
And your comment regarding my intentions is stupid. You admit yourself it is "optimal play'.. well no shit, why you think I am striving for that. Im not trying to re-invent the wheel.
Again you are flinging shit at an active participant, and for what purpose?
Still, no one is contributing; and the one guy who does, you tell him to "fuck off" whether joke or not.
Lay off the juice and give others a chance to input into the thread.
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On February 06 2013 17:05 phagga wrote:Show nested quote +On February 06 2013 16:46 Oatsmaster wrote:
Fuck you VE, I WILL NEVER SUBMIT. I AM ALWAYS RIGHT AND ALL OF YOU ARE FOOLS.
Also,
Phagga, do you have any thoughts about,
VE lurker lynching
Mocsta+Me 'argument'
Short on time. I agree with the lurker lynching early as we cannot differentiate between lurkers and scum later on and we have no mechanic to clear lurkers / confirm them town. Will post more later.
I hope you do, thats essentially a re-cap of two pages of thread.
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Fair enough, but are u implying that you thought his attitude was conducive to an open environment.
Oats has a (recent) tendency to post one liners asking to expound points already clarified. The outcome. Shit questions get shit answers.
Maybe u thought I over stepped the line in dissing him. But he was going out of his way to cherry pick sentences in a paragraph. For day1 i have been trying to promote discussion. I would contest he was actively killing the discussion. When did he promote an alternative?
If you want to judge me as null fine. But don't imply he is a saint in this but referencing only me.
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On February 06 2013 18:09 phagga wrote:Show nested quote +On February 06 2013 17:13 Mocsta wrote:On February 06 2013 17:05 phagga wrote:On February 06 2013 16:46 Oatsmaster wrote:
Fuck you VE, I WILL NEVER SUBMIT. I AM ALWAYS RIGHT AND ALL OF YOU ARE FOOLS.
Also,
Phagga, do you have any thoughts about,
VE lurker lynching
Mocsta+Me 'argument'
Short on time. I agree with the lurker lynching early as we cannot differentiate between lurkers and scum later on and we have no mechanic to clear lurkers / confirm them town. Will post more later. I hope you do, thats essentially a re-cap of two pages of thread. I just want to add something shorty in terms of lynching lurkers: D1 lynches are often crapshots, Kitaman analysed in anohter thread that town would be better off RNG the D1 lynch generally than trying to analyse and find scum. Combine this with the beformentioned fact that we have mechanics to differentiate lukers from scum or get rid of them, I therefore embrace a lynch on a lurker on who we cannot get an alignement read, should one be available.
Phagga.
Marv in Mafia LIX proved you can scum hunt day.
As I keep saying I thought the whole point of this game setup was to mitigate lurking. Why are we talking about lurking again, and there prioritization over scum reads?
If u want to counter and gibe the kitamen spiel again. Let's say your RNG plan found traction. Are you suggesting if you were the rolled lynch candidate that you would accept your fate without putting up a fight?
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Oats.
Im going to be as civil about this as possible.
We have personal differences and will rarely ever see eye to eye on the same matters.
Im not saying either of us is right. Just we both think we are right.
Lets leave it as that and move on. If u genuinely think i made a scum slip sure pressure me. But seriosuly i think your clutching st straws
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On February 06 2013 19:56 Oatsmaster wrote:
Stop buddying me.
After the olive branch i extend.
This is what you write?
Are you fucking serious?
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On February 06 2013 19:26 Oatsmaster wrote:
The way Mocsta attacked it was subtly saying that I am a hypocrite because I attacked him for doing the same thing, in his words.
However, he didnt say that the sentence was scummy, condemn me for personally attacking another player, which is the 'normal' way to it.
I didnt say the sentence was scummy, because I didnt think the sentence was scummy.
Whats your point; your rational for why it is a scum tell is weak, and clutching at straws. Not only that, its poor scum hunting, because everyone else knows its clutching at straws; so you cant achieve anything by submitting for discussion either.
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On February 06 2013 19:57 Djodref wrote:
@ Mocsta
What is your read on Oats right now ?
Also regarding the nomination mechanics, I think we should keep this for nomination events.
It gives scum an easy way to participate to the discussion and maybe give them ideas on hpw to use these mechanics at best. I think we can see which strategy they decide to use when we know the nominees.
@ everyone
I saw that phagga brought up the statitics gathered by kita lately. Debears also mentioned it in LVIII and I shat on it because I was scum and him town at that point, but I would like to see how a random lynch would work out for this day1. I would like to propose a way to randomize the lynch in my next post. (1)
I have a leaning town read on Oats. As scum, Oats has a tendency to puff out his chest in front of mice; and whimper in a corner in front of a lion. To him I am not a lion, but his one-track mindness on him being right, is in my opinion a confidence obtained by being town.
(2)
Nomination mechanics: I agree its not validity to discussion at this point in time (not even half the players have inputted).. but I think it needs to be discussed at the latest after Day1 lynch (i.e. Day2 dawn phase).. the things I already listed are not rocket science. its probably things everyone else has alraedy considered, thus, its not like im developing a super-awesome battle plan that no one else can figure out. The setup is out in the open, and I think its beneficial to discuss with town the potential ramifications; it is our way of indirectly influencing scum options. Why not take this little advantage?
(3)
As for RNG, im not in favour. If you do that, might as well not play forum mafia, and just play in excel, where each person is a number. And every 2minutes you lynch someone randomly, until no players remain. I would think 9-4 ratio results in town winning a vast majority. If thats your cup of tea, go ahead be my guest; but Im not in support of that actoin.
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On February 06 2013 20:27 Oatsmaster wrote:I didnt say the sentence was scummy, because I didnt think the sentence was scummy. Then why did you link to me saying that you were scummy? Wasnt the point to say that you thought the same thing? Show nested quote +On February 06 2013 16:53 Mocsta wrote:On February 06 2013 16:46 Oatsmaster wrote:
Fuck you VE, I WILL NEVER SUBMIT. I AM ALWAYS RIGHT AND ALL OF YOU ARE FOOLS.
================== My thoughts using your words. On February 06 2013 11:46 Oatsmaster wrote:
whats the point of writing this.
On February 06 2013 13:29 Oatsmaster wrote:
And I dont know why a town player would do this, therefore you are scum.
OHOHO Guys, we have a contradiction here
How? I didnt say anything you nob head, I found your posts and pointed out something you would have said to me; if i had made the joke to VE.
Stop making a fool of yourself and (un)intentionally misconstruing everything i say.
As I said before, your wit is as usefull as a football bat; and that my retort to you went over your head, makes my point clearer.
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On February 06 2013 20:28 Djodref wrote:
Mocsta play reminds me of his play in the last newbie where he was scum, accusing people to not particpate in the pointless early game discussions and focusing on town atmosphere type arguments. The thing is that he did similar things in the games he was town but not in the game he replaced in. Slightly scum on Mocsta.
Right, because meta in a newbie matters?
Either way, why dont you read the posts before Oats started cherry picking things, and contesting everything I said. + I already pointed out the differences between me n oats headbutting when I was scum, and the my alignment now.
On February 06 2013 13:57 Mocsta wrote:Fair comment. we did butt heads (me scum, you town). But I think this exchange has gone differently. - That game I called you out for killing atmosphere by being too aggressive, and then went into flame wars.
- This game, I am calling you out for thinking pig-headed and simple minded about this game. I am actually asking you to realise that it is imperitive that we open our eyes to the challenge that this game presents.
Do you disagree with this statement? Your post above indicates that you do..
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On February 06 2013 20:32 Djodref wrote:Show nested quote +On February 06 2013 20:23 Mocsta wrote:On February 06 2013 19:26 Oatsmaster wrote:
The way Mocsta attacked it was subtly saying that I am a hypocrite because I attacked him for doing the same thing, in his words.
However, he didnt say that the sentence was scummy, condemn me for personally attacking another player, which is the 'normal' way to it.
I didnt say the sentence was scummy, because I didnt think the sentence was scummy. Whats your point; your rational for why it is a scum tell is weak, and clutching at straws. Not only that, its poor scum hunting, because everyone else knows its clutching at straws; so you cant achieve anything by submitting for discussion either. @ MocstaI propose a radom lynch on Oats today. Are you in ?
No I am not
I already listed my read on Oats,
and why I am against RNG lynch.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=395690¤tpage=14#277
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On February 06 2013 20:38 Oatsmaster wrote:Nope you are not getting away with that explanation. This means that you basically 'wrote' the words by quoting. Which means you said that my 'rage post' was scummy. DO YOU DENY THAT? Show nested quote + I found your posts and pointed out something you would have said to me; if i had made the joke to VE. No I didnt say that to you. Your posts about me leaving and getting a replacement were totally serious, and thus, my response was serious. My post was a joke, and you saying that it was scummy, is a scumtell. Anything else you dont understand?
Yeah, i dont understand your point, as you are mixing two completely different issues.
I am going to make one final post regarding matters, if you reply, good for you, I am not going to bother.
(1) Me asking you to leave was a serious request, that I did not ever expect you to take seriously. I still think your treating this game as if its a newbie; and not giving it the respect it deserves. I am going going to insult you on why I think that is the case, only you know the real answer.
(2) My post, referencing your quotes, was indeed a joke as i specified. You have already called me scum several times, for doing lesser things than your joke post to VE. I wanted to return to you the favour; you obviously can only dish it out, and not receive.
So to answer your question; i dont think your "rage post" was scummy; I have already given my initial read on you (obviously subject to change as the game progresses). So yes, i deny the statement.
=======
Done with you on these topics, Oats.
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On February 06 2013 20:40 Oatsmaster wrote:Mocsta Clearly it does, as Marv showed in LIX, where he meta'ed me very accurately. You were also in that game, dont tell me you forgot. I made the same argument too.
This is a separate conversation. And again, last I will say.
Marv targeted you based on your actions, and your 180' changes in opinion on him (i.e marv is scum.. ohh marv is super town within 2 posts). He then followed up with meta.
I targeted you based on meta. I have played now 3 games in a row with you, and I do think I have a grasp on your style.
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Djo. I explained why I don't support the RNG lynch.
For funzies I ran a RNzg and it identified you as the random lynch for day 1.
Will u support me with this campaign?
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What is the purpose.
RNG is stupid policy lynch. Anyone can use it as an excuse to push their agenda without penalty.
I think u already realised that though and the question was rhetorical.
As for oats. I didn't have a read on him since the beginning. My leaning town was based on him willing to butt heads and not retract. I don't think scum would do this at the start of the game it draws too much attention.
Considering he kept going after VE called us into line. Kept going after I gave an olive branch. And kept going after I said I had had enough.. I am not as certain on town anymore. He is walking a fine line towards flaming, which is now making me revert to null.
I'm still not supporting him for RNG though
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EPT
