Regardless.. to use that as a heuristic I think is weak

(i.e. posting a [pre-made]campaign is indicative of town play)

Now you are using meta to make your judgement. I obviously don't share that experience with you.
From my perspective its an informal fallacy.

Im not saying Vivax is scum; Im saying Toads rational for declaring him openly town to me is weak at best, and contradictory at worst

Mocsta

Australia9388 Posts

January 21 2013 08:24 GMT

#713

Gonzaw
Im very close to handing you my vote for Mayor.

Overall I like the vibe I get when reading your filter. I think your approach has been reasonable, I don't agree with everything but that is also to be expected.

Before I hand over my vote, I would like to know

"Out of the current candidates with a fighting chance, who would be your choice for Sheriff?" (& why)

Mocsta

Australia9388 Posts

January 21 2013 08:39 GMT

#714

Gonzaw asked me to have a look @ Stutters695

In short: I don't like what I see. Austinmcc really said it all; theres nothing of substance in there.

The other concern is that he said he was catching up on the thread 15hrs ago, and hasn't commented since.

Stutters695
Who are you voting for mayor; and who do you want the mayor to lynch (i.e top scum read) & why.

Mocsta

Australia9388 Posts

January 21 2013 09:15 GMT

#719

I was also asked to look into Oatsmaster

TL;DR:
I would prefer to pursue other scum targets, but will accept Oatsmaster for the lynch.
I still think people are "cherry picking" his filter to suit their interpretation though.

I had to read his filter about 4 times, because each time I kept changing my mind.
My problems with Oats is that:

(1) He has really turned DOWN the [intentional]aggression. and really turned UP the [emotional] aggressoin. which is odd.. a null tell overall though (but with (2) and (3) gives me concern)
(2) Most of his responses are when pressured, and when he does try to pressure the questions are lacking in quality.. having just played a game with Oats as town, I can see a stark contrast (we also MAJORLY butted heads that game)
(3) He keeps asking others for scum reads, but is not providing his own.

Perhaps its due to the vet factor (i.e. trying to find his place in the scheme of things) I know I am a bit more reserved this game; if this was the case, point (3) would make sense due to lower confidence.. but (2) is still not explained and even (1) to a lesser extent is not explained

To me Oatsmaster has not been obviously scummy in his play, but due to his changes in aggression from what I know familiarly of him, I am comfortable with his lynch - on the proviso of no better target.

In regards to cherry picking:
the items raised for his scumminess is due to him wanting to run for mayor and defending JieXian.. personally I find both tells null.

(a)Fuck, I would love to be mayor but I have enough common sense to know I dont have the respect of the majority so don't see a point. perhaps Oats is the same, in fact I suspect he would be in that regard. So for me the tell is null.

(b)As for JieXian, I have already said this prior, I took fault with how Vivax approached his 'scum read' pressuring. I am not really sure why Oats copped heat and I didn't. I see this action as null as well, as its easy for scum to break up fights and stick up for others; but also beneficial to town to prevent mislynches etc.

Mocsta

Australia9388 Posts

January 21 2013 09:18 GMT

#720

On January 21 2013 17:50 Oatsmaster wrote:
EBWOP: Fucked up the formatting.

Show nested quote +

First bolded, how is that aggressive? Looks like you are nitpicking on my opening post.
Second Bolded, I was reacting to 5touch who was pissing me off.
3rd Bolded, Vivax said that, not me. read the whole post in context so you actually find scum and not town.

Seriously.. your BBCode is more fucked than Axle.. you did the same thing last game.

When you quote, you remove the name, and assume people will know who your talking about.

Fuck me, the bolded part is under "gonzaw" but YOU ARE ONE who said it.. ffs

Mocsta

Australia9388 Posts

January 21 2013 11:38 GMT

#722

Axle.

What you extrapolate specifically what I am "oversaucing" when it comes to aggression?
Considering i put forth the hypothesis of vet syndrome, I don't really know what you are implying here.

And why are you even talking about LYLO.. its Day 1...

and lastly.. "dont like lies".. what is the lie?

Mocsta

Australia9388 Posts

January 21 2013 13:05 GMT

#726

Axle.

You say Vivax intentionally lied about Oats quotes.

(Some of) The vets say Vivax is town.

Where does Vivax lie for you? (pun intended) -i.e. Is Vivax a scum or town read for you?

If he is scummish in nature, I would like to see you pressure him for information.

Mocsta

Australia9388 Posts

January 21 2013 14:27 GMT

#744

Fivetouch.

If my vote went your way... Will u lynch jimi hendrix over oats?

Are u concerned that mr.brown bear could be sheriff and has barely inputted to the thread?

Mocsta

Australia9388 Posts

January 22 2013 01:44 GMT

#1066

Im back.

Nice hit on jimi hendrix

FT

Its been a real pain in the ass to catch up on this thread.. most of it has been mayor/sheriff posturing so I don't have anything significant to comment on even though 12-15 pages went by; Other than I need to re-read the Vivax interactions in that period. Im not sold on him being town, so need to seriously ponder if I think he is scum.

Mocsta

Australia9388 Posts

January 22 2013 03:19 GMT

#1099

On January 22 2013 10:57 DearestSnot wrote:
Mocsta why is it that you never once mentioned prpl before this:

Show nested quote +

Because I had nothing to contribute further on purplehaze. 5Touch points sounded convincing, and IIRC everyone else was bantering about his meta.

I said myself before, I went through Oats filter and found aspects questionable so whilst comfortable with his lynch, I would have preferred someone else.

Lastly, it was clear 5Touch was becoming mayor, and I wanted to know if he would lynch prpl instead of oats. he did. and the right choice was made.

Mocsta

Australia9388 Posts

January 22 2013 03:23 GMT

#1100

On January 22 2013 11:23 austinmcc wrote:
I believe it was mocsta who voted me in the thread but not in the voting thread itself?

Wasn't me.

Mocsta

Australia9388 Posts

January 22 2013 03:35 GMT

#1102

On January 22 2013 11:36 grush57 wrote:
Hooray d1 is over an a scum got lynched.

Grush. your still my #1 read.

Maybe I am tunneling because of your insta-insert of ya "Starsenses" tag line; however, your filter history since that post has done nothing to persuade me otherwise.

All I see in your filter is:

You declaring yourself town
Declaring yourself a candidate, but based on effort put in, this might have been a joke.
Some (very) soft-defending of Yamato
and a vote on Chezinu

To me, nothing of note, otherwise known as flying under the radar.
Whilst town may fly under the radar to avoid NKs or watever;

I find it very peculiar you are tying in lurking in the shadows with your "STARSENSES"/ I AM TOWN first post.

@Grush57
I want to know your read on Oatsmaster and why.

Mocsta

Australia9388 Posts

January 22 2013 04:37 GMT

#1105

On January 22 2013 13:22 yamato77 wrote:
Mocsta I don't think grush is scum, and I don't think accusing him is going to make it more evident even if he is.

I would spend your time looking at other players. Funny, coming from me, but Grush plays like this often. Only time will tell with him.

Yamato,

Something you are well aware of.. You pressure your read until either:

      (1) Convince you they are innocent
            or
      (2) Convince you they are scum

Grush has not convinced my he is innocent, and has given me no reason to even consider him as innocent.
Maybe for everyone else there are better reads, but for me he is my best until (1) or (2) is satisfied.

Mocsta

Australia9388 Posts

January 22 2013 05:27 GMT

#1107

Mr Toad.

I can agree with (4) completely.

In regards to (3) I would stop if a suitable reason is given.

I respect the vets, and do not have a problem listening to them if the reads are substantiated with proof.

Telling me.. "Grush is town because I am a vet, no more needs to be said " doesnt cut the mustard for me and is my my opinion an "appeal to authority". A fallacy I choose not to indulge in.

BTW. I don't recall anyone actually sticking up for Grush i.e. (3)? Im happy to be corrected on this one though...
Unless of course if you meant vets ignoring my stance on Grush, as indication they disagree.

Mocsta

Australia9388 Posts

January 22 2013 05:28 GMT

#1108

Naturally I assume by not directed at me. You were inferring to the red text (Or yellow based on your chat log

)

Mocsta

Australia9388 Posts

January 22 2013 05:32 GMT

#1111

fark lol.. that quip from toad completely went over my head hhahah

lol twas @ yamato..

i probably shouldnt have just admitted that, but made me laugh too hard

Mocsta

Australia9388 Posts

January 22 2013 05:35 GMT

#1113

Well regardless.. I meant what I said about the appeal to authority.

The vets obviously know more about the game than we do.. they can use that experience to aid us, or abuse us.. I think they keep saying.. "vet says do it this way" to test if we have the balls to think for ourselves. if we capitulate and give in, we are just useless townies that town/mafia vets can exploit as needed.

If vets provide substantiated reads; at least I can make a judgement on whether they are trying to help town or not.

Mocsta

Australia9388 Posts

January 22 2013 05:44 GMT

#1116

On January 22 2013 14:31 yamato77 wrote:
What he means, Mocsta, is that he was aiming those two points at me.

My appeal to you to discontinue your pursuit of Grush is that I don't think anything he is going to do in response to your accusations is going to change your mind.

Disagree.

Why are you stepping in for Grush before he has even responded?
If you think he is town from his filter, I would prefer you to direct me to what I am missing.

If you think I am being a hypocrite for asking why you interjected, note, I called out Vivax because he was campaigning for others to dig up dirty of JieXian at that point in time, and potentially sheeped Sandroba.
Grush is my read, and Im doing the followup work. Completely different situations.

Mocsta

Australia9388 Posts

January 22 2013 05:51 GMT

#1118

On January 22 2013 14:44 yamato77 wrote:
I'm not discouraging your read, I'm just telling you that spending your time trying to make Grush do stuff probably isn't going to work.

Noted, and that is the case in point.

The more he resists, the stronger the evidence.

Mocsta

Australia9388 Posts

January 22 2013 05:52 GMT

#1119

btw.. oats is same timezone as me? Wonder where he has been all day.

I woulda thought at this stage with the pressure on him, he would be working to exonerate himself?