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Xatalos
Profile Joined January 2011
Finland9675 Posts
January 26 2013 18:49 GMT
#1970
Just because thrawn was pushing him the hardest?
"The opportunity to secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself." - Sun Tzu
Xatalos
Profile Joined January 2011
Finland9675 Posts
January 26 2013 18:52 GMT
#1971
On January 27 2013 03:29 wherebugsgo wrote:
Actually I think my statement had an unintended effect.

I do now think it's grush + Lazer again, because when I said that, Lazer swapped to you. He's ultra willing to kill you (as is grush)

Grush is seemingly not really willing to kill Lazer though, and vice versa too. It seems if they are presented with alternatives, they go for those alternatives. Lazer definitely seems the most opportunistic right now.



Hmmm. That's a good point in favor of grush+Lazer, but definitely not conclusive. I still have a lot of difficulty imagining that Kush was scum - and Lazer has posted a lot today with content as well. I don't feel good about a Lazer lynch right now at all.
"The opportunity to secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself." - Sun Tzu
Xatalos
Profile Joined January 2011
Finland9675 Posts
January 26 2013 20:20 GMT
#2009
Lol, suddenly the thread exploded. So grush is Lazer scum or not? You're voting for him but offering other options (including every player except you apparently).
"The opportunity to secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself." - Sun Tzu
Xatalos
Profile Joined January 2011
Finland9675 Posts
January 26 2013 20:31 GMT
#2012
What the heck WBG? Some time ago you were 100% certain of grush flipping scum. Now he's not scummy at all? What changed? He even keeps trolling more now when he should be trying to establish his innocence as town...
"The opportunity to secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself." - Sun Tzu
Xatalos
Profile Joined January 2011
Finland9675 Posts
January 26 2013 20:35 GMT
#2014
This is not him trolling?

On January 27 2013 04:18 grush57 wrote:
COMMAN JAY OR LAZER WHO WE GOING FOR WBG


On January 27 2013 05:09 grush57 wrote:
actually a wbg + xata could be pretty interesting

"The opportunity to secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself." - Sun Tzu
Xatalos
Profile Joined January 2011
Finland9675 Posts
January 26 2013 20:37 GMT
#2015
On January 27 2013 04:05 Lazermonkey wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 27 2013 04:03 grush57 wrote:
I'm toooooown :D.
I could lynch Lazer, atleast I know we won't be mislynching then.
Show nested quote +
On January 27 2013 02:59 grush57 wrote:
Well, the thread pretty much died. Scum were the more active members and now they lurk cuz of ez win :'(
WBG and Jay, gogogo
Lol...


And LOL what the hell is this....
"The opportunity to secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself." - Sun Tzu
Xatalos
Profile Joined January 2011
Finland9675 Posts
January 26 2013 20:37 GMT
#2016
There's just absolutely no coherent logic in what grush is saying.
"The opportunity to secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself." - Sun Tzu
Xatalos
Profile Joined January 2011
Finland9675 Posts
January 26 2013 20:42 GMT
#2018
On January 27 2013 05:38 wherebugsgo wrote:
no how the fuck is that trolling?

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=344514&user=165092&currentpage=All

look at that, THAT is trolling.

I am NoSmurfHere btw, look at my filter and comments on grush. He is definitely not trolly here. I don't think he is scum anymore tbh.

lazer, let's go.

##unvote
##vote Lazermonkey


-.-

Lol WTF, I've never seen anything as stupid as that. grush's play this game takes second place though. How did your read switch from 100% scum to town in a matter of hours? I just don't get it.
"The opportunity to secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself." - Sun Tzu
Xatalos
Profile Joined January 2011
Finland9675 Posts
January 26 2013 20:44 GMT
#2019
And what do you think about those posts... Is he really serious about finding scum? Definitely not.


On January 27 2013 05:37 Xatalos wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 27 2013 04:05 Lazermonkey wrote:
On January 27 2013 04:03 grush57 wrote:
I'm toooooown :D.
I could lynch Lazer, atleast I know we won't be mislynching then.
On January 27 2013 02:59 grush57 wrote:
Well, the thread pretty much died. Scum were the more active members and now they lurk cuz of ez win :'(
WBG and Jay, gogogo
Lol...


And LOL what the hell is this....

"The opportunity to secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself." - Sun Tzu
Xatalos
Profile Joined January 2011
Finland9675 Posts
January 26 2013 20:49 GMT
#2023
I'd rather lynch Jay than Lazer today, to be honest. But grush is definitely the most likely scum. You can't say he's town just because he didn't go to a ridiculous troll-mode after being close to death.
"The opportunity to secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself." - Sun Tzu
Xatalos
Profile Joined January 2011
Finland9675 Posts
January 26 2013 20:55 GMT
#2028
On January 27 2013 05:50 wherebugsgo wrote:
he hasn't trolled all game.

lazer has escaped lynch like 3 times now.


It's all relative. He has sheeped his scumreads, posted contradicting statements right after each other and done other things that can't be considered not trolling. It's not as senseless in that other game, but it's far worse than anything I've seen before.

That's bothering me about Lazer too, but there are other things that make Lazer look more townish (Kush's play, Lazer's positive participation today..). And last moment vote switches rarely end well.
"The opportunity to secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself." - Sun Tzu
Xatalos
Profile Joined January 2011
Finland9675 Posts
January 26 2013 20:59 GMT
#2034
On January 27 2013 05:56 wherebugsgo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 27 2013 05:55 Xatalos wrote:
On January 27 2013 05:50 wherebugsgo wrote:
he hasn't trolled all game.

lazer has escaped lynch like 3 times now.


It's all relative. He has sheeped his scumreads, posted contradicting statements right after each other and done other things that can't be considered not trolling. It's not as senseless in that other game, but it's far worse than anything I've seen before.

That's bothering me about Lazer too, but there are other things that make Lazer look more townish (Kush's play, Lazer's positive participation today..). And last moment vote switches rarely end well.


you never qualified why kush's play made lazer look better.

In fact, I disagreed with you and never got an answer on that.

you haven't qualified how grush playing here is "worse" relative to anything, because you haven't provided a game where grush played town in which he was more helpful than this.


That's because Kush and Lazer share the same alignment....... You need to ask that?

grush's play here is worse and more useless than anything I've seen from any other player. It's not as bad as that previous game where he was scum, but it's not like he needs to just go 100% troll once he gets under pressure. It's stupid to assume something like that.
"The opportunity to secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself." - Sun Tzu
Xatalos
Profile Joined January 2011
Finland9675 Posts
January 26 2013 21:16 GMT
#2045
On January 27 2013 06:00 wherebugsgo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 27 2013 05:59 Xatalos wrote:
On January 27 2013 05:56 wherebugsgo wrote:
On January 27 2013 05:55 Xatalos wrote:
On January 27 2013 05:50 wherebugsgo wrote:
he hasn't trolled all game.

lazer has escaped lynch like 3 times now.


It's all relative. He has sheeped his scumreads, posted contradicting statements right after each other and done other things that can't be considered not trolling. It's not as senseless in that other game, but it's far worse than anything I've seen before.

That's bothering me about Lazer too, but there are other things that make Lazer look more townish (Kush's play, Lazer's positive participation today..). And last moment vote switches rarely end well.


you never qualified why kush's play made lazer look better.

In fact, I disagreed with you and never got an answer on that.

you haven't qualified how grush playing here is "worse" relative to anything, because you haven't provided a game where grush played town in which he was more helpful than this.


That's because Kush and Lazer share the same alignment....... You need to ask that?

grush's play here is worse and more useless than anything I've seen from any other player. It's not as bad as that previous game where he was scum, but it's not like he needs to just go 100% troll once he gets under pressure. It's stupid to assume something like that.


no, because I don't think kush's play was townish!


Okay... You never actually answered about that though. iamperfection agreed, but you went AFK or something? The thing is that in Witchraft Kush was pretty cautious and diplomatic with everyone. Here he was just doing stupid stuff and well on his way to become lynched. Don't you see the difference?
"The opportunity to secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself." - Sun Tzu
Xatalos
Profile Joined January 2011
Finland9675 Posts
January 26 2013 21:34 GMT
#2053
On January 27 2013 06:26 wherebugsgo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 27 2013 06:25 jaybrundage wrote:
On January 27 2013 06:22 wherebugsgo wrote:
I don't understand, why would we care about grush changing his meta?

I've never seen someone drastically change their meta, and this is fucking grush we're talking about.

iamp might have agreed but I'm going to go check that newbie game that kush smurfed in. From what I recall his play was somewhat like what he did here.

Because your assuming Grush cant change a fucking bit. If he's scum then all he has to do is play useless and get away scot free


occam's razor is that he didn't change, because people don't voluntarily change their meta.

it's not that easy to change your meta, and I seriously doubt a player like grush would have the foresight to do so.


So this relies on grush being incompetent... But keep in mind that Hapa was scum as well. He could have easily coached grush to try something a bit different this time around. I doubt Hapa would have let grush just completely troll like he did previously. But he started trolling HIMSELF this game, so what do I know. Please do read Kush's filter in Witchcraft and tell me what you think then.
"The opportunity to secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself." - Sun Tzu
Xatalos
Profile Joined January 2011
Finland9675 Posts
January 26 2013 21:49 GMT
#2056
On January 27 2013 06:41 jaybrundage wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 27 2013 06:34 Xatalos wrote:
On January 27 2013 06:26 wherebugsgo wrote:
On January 27 2013 06:25 jaybrundage wrote:
On January 27 2013 06:22 wherebugsgo wrote:
I don't understand, why would we care about grush changing his meta?

I've never seen someone drastically change their meta, and this is fucking grush we're talking about.

iamp might have agreed but I'm going to go check that newbie game that kush smurfed in. From what I recall his play was somewhat like what he did here.

Because your assuming Grush cant change a fucking bit. If he's scum then all he has to do is play useless and get away scot free


occam's razor is that he didn't change, because people don't voluntarily change their meta.

it's not that easy to change your meta, and I seriously doubt a player like grush would have the foresight to do so.


So this relies on grush being incompetent... But keep in mind that Hapa was scum as well. He could have easily coached grush to try something a bit different this time around. I doubt Hapa would have let grush just completely troll like he did previously. But he started trolling HIMSELF this game, so what do I know. Please do read Kush's filter in Witchcraft and tell me what you think then.

Xat so if your confident in grush being scum why cant you see a grush lazer scum team. Your basing the majority of your read on some one who was only here on day 1 for like half of it. Wouldnt lazer if he had been town been able to do something townie that would influnces your read?
He has legit escaped from every lynch so far. Wouldnt scum want to keep him alive as much as possible?


It's possible, but I'm not confident on Lazer flipping scum, so I want to lynch grush. It's troubling that Lazer has always somehow escaped the wagons that started forming on him, and he hasn't really done much to make me think he's town during the game, but it's still a lot more than grush has going for him. And more than you have going for you. So why would we lynch Lazer now?
"The opportunity to secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself." - Sun Tzu
Xatalos
Profile Joined January 2011
Finland9675 Posts
January 26 2013 21:53 GMT
#2057
WBG did you read Witchcraft yet?
"The opportunity to secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself." - Sun Tzu
Xatalos
Profile Joined January 2011
Finland9675 Posts
January 26 2013 22:15 GMT
#2062
On January 27 2013 07:07 wherebugsgo wrote:
is he town in witchcraft? he posted a lot more than he did here even in the short amount of time he was alive.


Scum -.- Take this seriously please. Don't you see the difference in Kush's play?
"The opportunity to secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself." - Sun Tzu
Xatalos
Profile Joined January 2011
Finland9675 Posts
January 26 2013 22:18 GMT
#2066
On January 27 2013 07:15 wherebugsgo wrote:
question xata:

why have you not moved your vote?


Because Lazer might be scum, but not as likely as grush. And you still didn't give me a reason to think otherwise, nor did you even realize if Kush was scum or town in Witchraft (lol).
"The opportunity to secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself." - Sun Tzu
Xatalos
Profile Joined January 2011
Finland9675 Posts
January 26 2013 22:22 GMT
#2070
On January 27 2013 07:16 wherebugsgo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 27 2013 07:15 Xatalos wrote:
On January 27 2013 07:07 wherebugsgo wrote:
is he town in witchcraft? he posted a lot more than he did here even in the short amount of time he was alive.


Scum -.- Take this seriously please. Don't you see the difference in Kush's play?


I'm not understanding what the difference is.

The two games are completely different, this game he was gone before d1 even ended.

He has a scum read on Hapa in this game but didn't vote him! He fucking voted MrZ instead.


Yes, but there's still a stark difference. As scum, Kush was serious and diplomatic. Now, he was just carefree and did whatever. It'd be better to argue about Lazer himself I guess, but Lazer seems pretty nullish to me, so it's more productive to consider the townread on Kush.
"The opportunity to secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself." - Sun Tzu
Xatalos
Profile Joined January 2011
Finland9675 Posts
January 26 2013 22:26 GMT
#2072
On January 27 2013 07:20 wherebugsgo wrote:
saying someone is playing like they did before without even substantiating it is not how you fucking meta someone. jesus christ


Are you even reading? I said there's a difference, not playing like before. Sigh, this is just too frustrating. You even admitted that you didn't really read Witchraft by not knowing if Kush was scum or not in there. And now you're mispresenting. What the heck....
"The opportunity to secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself." - Sun Tzu
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