EPTWould /in but LVIII is going to be a challenge.
British Empire Mini Mafia
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yamato77
11589 Posts
Would /in but LVIII is going to be a challenge. | ||
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yamato77
11589 Posts
/in CC I tunnel you all day. | ||
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yamato77
11589 Posts
On January 02 2013 15:21 RiseAgain wrote: /in This looks fun! Whose smurf are you? My own personal WinCon: Deduce the answer to this question. | ||
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yamato77
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Being on my confirmed scum list is the easiest way to never get lynched. | ||
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yamato77
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yamato77
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Hapa's post though I understand because when I played IRC with him he hated it because he had no time to think. This is a direct reaction to that. The fast-paced decision making was difficult for him. | ||
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yamato77
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On January 04 2013 16:16 DarthPunk wrote: You calling hapa scum here? What are you actually saying? I'm saying the post has a clear intention; eliminate the issues Hapa had with the instant lynch mechanic in IRC. The first part was affirmation of the idea that crafted setup posts are something worth despising. I brought up the idea that Hapa could be scum because of the post, and shot it down with some knowledge I think only I have of him. | ||
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yamato77
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You told me it was difficult to think in IRC because there was no time. You advocate making longer, more thought out decisions in this game because of the instant lynch mechanic. I don't know why you guys think this is a big deal. | ||
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yamato77
11589 Posts
My bad. I didn't know you were so touchy about the subject. | ||
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yamato77
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Your post this game had a similar feel to me, and as others have said contrived posts are not something to be liked. However, I knew your experience in IRC and thought I made a meaningful connection to why you made the post. My conclusion was not that you were scummy, it is that you're townie. You say it in a long winded way, but basically you want town to act rationally because you want to lynch people who hammer a townie with little explanation, because that is a scummy play. Again, I draw conclusions to IRC where people hammered townies all the time and the hammerer was lynched really often, but they were often town as well. You want to eliminate this problem, to separate the townies lynching an honest scum read from the scum lynching a townie. | ||
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yamato77
11589 Posts
On January 04 2013 11:51 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: So the hammer vote takes full responsibility for the lynch? Everyone who votes is responsible, not just the hammering guy. Why does CC not want us to put emphasis on the hammer vote? It is prime opportunity for differentiating scum from town yet he thinks it isn't? | ||
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yamato77
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yamato77
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On January 04 2013 17:16 Hapahauli wrote: Regarding the bolded, in what way would you say it is a "prime opportunity [to] differentiate" alignments? Give me some examples. Also, I think you're just shoving words in CC's mouth. He's saying that we shouldn't shift disproportionate responsibility on the person who hammers on a lynch, and I don't see what's wrong about that statement. What is disproportionate responsibility? I think there's plenty of reason to give the hammer more look than other votes. It is the act of making the decision to lynch someone, it makes the player into the executioner. The use of the hammer vote is perhaps the most important thing in this game. You said so yourself and now you seem to disagree with me? Why? | ||
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yamato77
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yamato77
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Anyway CC your case is bad and I think you're faking this read. I don't think Xatalos is that scummy, but he is an easy target. CC is scummy. ##Vote: Mr Cheesecake | ||
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yamato77
11589 Posts
I will answer all your questions an more in about nine or ten hours | ||
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yamato77
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Honestly my vote on CC was to get a better read on him. Up to that point I thought he was a bit scummy so I figured his reaction to me voting for him out of nowhere might reveal to me his alignment. It turns out it didn't, but some of the things he has said since then have swayed my opinion. I'm fairly confident in Hapa being town, so as far as active scum I don't think there are any. Jay is the only one I would question because his posts have a quality that makes them seem quiet, almost like his opinion isn't something to be valued. Is he scum trying to stay under the radar or just a weak townie? No I'm much more inclined to think a scum lies between Mr Zentor and Rise. Zentor hasn't contributed much besides a lot of setup talk and town reads. His filter is low content, low profile, very much like I think the scum are this game. Rise simply hasn't posted much since the beginning if the game and it is starting to make me question his motivations. | ||
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yamato77
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yamato77
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On January 06 2013 00:10 Hapahauli wrote: Yamato, can you describe in detail the reasoning behind your 180 on Mr.CC? Also, making a "pressure vote," and then subsequently doing nothing to pressure said player doesn't look very good. His actions when you and DP were having it out were really towny. A scum could have been opportunistic or even just sat back and let it go on but he tried to get cooler heads to prevail and it worked. I haven't really had the time to follow up on anything yet this game. The vote wasn't a pressure vote, it was a play for a reaction, and I got one. | ||
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yamato77
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yamato77
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yamato77
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On January 06 2013 00:19 Hapahauli wrote: I don't want to get too much into RL stuffs, but is your activity going to be a problem going forward? Because 30 minutes a day to "chime in" on things is not what I want to have from you going forward. It'll get better after the weekend. I might have more time later today but I don't even know if I work in six hours or fourteen, lol. I have to wake up to find out. | ||
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yamato77
11589 Posts
Either vote me or not. I've been up front about my play this game and yet you continue to act suspicious of me. You have yet to vote me. It seems to me you're sitting on the idea of voting me just to look like you have scum reads. Fuck that. ##Vote: Hapahauli | ||
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yamato77
11589 Posts
##Unvote As for who I do want to lynch, I mentioned Mr Zentor before and I still think he's being scummy. He's overly eager to lynch someone, and doesn't seem to care what that person's alignment is. His vote on you is odd, and while it seems like a joke it did move you that much closer to being lynched which is a consideration one has to make when they put a vote on someone. He hasn't exactly been real investigative about people's alignments this game. I also don't like that he wants to be the person to hammer people, given what I've said about the hammer vote before. I don't trust his judgment. So MrZ, why are you acting so impatient? Hapa has a good point that the longer town waits to lynch the better the lynch could be, so why do you think differently? Scum want the emotional, quick lynch you seem to want to happen. | ||
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yamato77
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I see you have a town read on MrZ, care to explain why? I don't think he's town and honestly he's been favoring the scummier path of action this game what with his impatience and such. | ||
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yamato77
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On January 06 2013 15:47 Z-BosoN wrote: @yamato I want you to answer what you think of the cheesecake man. You voted for him for no good reason, or at least no reason you felt like explaining. You justified your vote on CC as being a pressure vote (which clearly didn't look like one). Later on, you said your vote on him was to get a better read on him. If this is true, where is your better read of him? Why are you not commenting on CC? Do you think he is scum? I want to understand your thought process. Well as I said before my read has changed on CC because of his recent actions. He has been advocating pro-town things in the thread and being open with his thought process. Earlier I believe I was falling into bad habits. I'm prone to confirmation bias, and CC has been on the receiving end many times. I looked at his case and it screamed shitty scumhunting to me so I voted for him to see what he would do. I half expected scum CC to OMGUS me on the spot but he didn't, he just kind of laughed at it which is what he'd done to me in games past when he was town so I rethought my position. | ||
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yamato77
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On January 06 2013 15:56 Z-BosoN wrote: Finally, a living soul around these part! Hi there ^^ I agree that Mr.Z has very few good looking posts, I've read somewhere that his meta isn't one to be taken too seriously. He has also been open with his thoughts, if you look at my spreadsheet. He's not a particular strong town read, but I don't want to lynch into him today. What I don't understand is that you are finding him to be scum for the very same actions that you yourself took! You took a vote at CC. You took a vote at hapa. I find it hypocritical for you to use that sole fact for judging someone scum. Why is Mr.Z scum for placing his vote non-seriously if thats the same thing you are doing? I've been serious about the use of my vote this game. At the time I made the posts, I felt that putting my vote on them was a good action to take. I have not, however, been advocating a quick lynch. You don't see me posting about being impatient and wanting people to die. To draw a similarity between the two is silly at best. What I want to know is how you have a different read on he and I if we've supposedly done the same thing this game. | ||
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yamato77
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On January 05 2013 11:22 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: I was on last night before anything juicy happened. Just Rise and policy stuff, none too interesting. Worked a 12 hour shift, gave a little update on my whereabouts during lunch, and here am I. So Xatalos is scummy yo + Show Spoiler + On January 05 2013 07:23 Xatalos wrote: Sorry for the late entrance, but I warned about this pre-game :/ Anyways, there are a couple of players whose posting I haven't liked so far: MrZentor Additional discussion time benefits town and damages Mafia. Mafia's agenda is to stall discussion and create confusion - both of these goals are achieved by faster lynches where less players can offer their opinions. From my point of view, the above post is pushing Mafia agenda. This post basically repeats what was already said in the previous post... Plus some obvious setup talk that anyone could post, no matter their alignment. It's quite unnecessary to mention that his "faster lynches plan" is a guideline and not a strictly enforced rule. Who would have thought so in the first place, really? Another post that doesn't fit into town agenda. Regardless of the trollish appearance, this post actually gives MrZentor more breathing room if he just joins a bandwagon without good reasoning later on. He told he would do so after all, didn't he? More fluff... So far there's nothing townish in MrZentor's filter, and too much useless/anti-town stuff to be overlooked. If he's town, he needs to change his playstyle completely. If he's Mafia, he needs to continue on his current path and convince us he can't be town. Mr. Cheesecake Who was he again? I only remembered him after rereading the thread a couple of times. He hasn't actually taken stances on anything that matters (not counting obvious stuff like "we should lynch the scummiest player"). What I'm most worried about is his complete lack of presence - he's basically casually lurking without being too obvious. I'm unwilling to judge him yet, but he isn't looking good so far. I'm not looking good so far. Lol k. Why the hell isn't Xatalos attacking me for wanting a shorter lynch time? I basically said 48-72 hoursish just like MrZ. I agreed with MrZ on that point. Inconsistency much? Why is it not okay for MrZ to want a shorter lynch time, but seemingly alright with me to want it? jaybrundage This is his whole filter. It's certainly... lacking, for a lack of better word. First he speculates a bit about blue roles, then gives a list of vague of his policy opinions, then leaves. It's just all too vague and pointless for my liking. What's up with this lack of effort, interest, anything really? Some players have been very active so far and it's definitely a good theme in this game. But some players (like these 3 above) have done practically nothing, even if they have posted. That should be some reason for concern to anyone. Just look at these reasons for attacking MrZ. "Omg you want less time in the game? Obvious mafia-agenda pushing. It's such a cheap shot it's disgusting, and what an easy thing to point out. Some goes for the point about hammer votes. He attacks MrZ for a fairly null comment, it means nothing. Why the hell isn't Xatalos attacking me for wanting a shorter lynch time? I basically said 48-72 hoursish just like MrZ. I agreed with MrZ on that point. Inconsistency much? Why is it not okay for MrZ to want a shorter lynch time, but seemingly alright with me to want it? So his first post of the game pretty much calls out a third of the thread. Stuff on Jaybrundage is bland and basically summarizes instead of analyzes. Then comes the mother of all contradictory posts: So he thinks DarthPunk is town, and provides a reason to back it up. Cool beans. Not even a half-hour later: So now DarthPunk is possibly scum and he provides a quote with a bunch of dem bolded statements to back it up. But didn't Xatalos just say that DP was looking town? That he agreed with a lot of what he had to say? This is a huuuuuge 180 right here. He just felt very comfortable with DP being town. Now he feels uneasy. Dat 180 on DP. Explain. The main points in this case are that Xatalos is inconsistent with his logic about MrZ being scum, and had a 180 on DP. The first point is a weak one, and doesn't mean SHIT about the alignment of Xatalos. I actually agree with what Xatalos had to say about MrZ here. Just because he didn't attack CC for the exact same things and repeat himself doesn't make him scum. The second point wasn't a strong one either. He never contradicted his own logic, he simply had a change of heart based on some of the things Hapa was saying about DP. Taken out of context with some red text it LOOKS bad but it isn't really. Xatalos doesn't even come across as scum to me even if he changed his read completely that fast because I've seen townies do that a lot. I do it as town, too. So with two weak points in his case where he attacked a player I felt was going down the right road in putting pressure on MrZ, I found CC's motivations scummy. He had not contributed anything meaningful before that point and this post has done a lot this game in making Xatalos look worse. So I voted for CC to see if my suspicions were correct, that he was scum pushing a bad case. It happened to be that he wasn't scum, but he was still pushing a bad case. So I unvoted him after a better look at his play which suggests a good town. | ||
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yamato77
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yamato77
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From the YANMM Obs QT after I died, I asked how I could have played better: Toad 12-31-2012 09:27 PM ET (US) @Yamato: less emotional would have been better Yamato. I saw you getting influenced by people and how they posted and thought you're raging a lot. And I think you did or it at least altered your reads a lot because you ended up pushing people who made you mad if I remember correctly. I'm trying. | ||
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yamato77
11589 Posts
On January 06 2013 16:58 Hapahauli wrote: @ Yamato How's the activity outlook for you tomorrow? Also, MrZ is your top scumread, correct? What do you make of Z-Bo's stuff on Xatalos? I'll be active at some point but not the whole day. Split up. I'll answer questions and stuff though. The Xatalos thing looks worse now than it did when I looked at him earlier. If this were deadline majority I would be willing to lynch him over MrZ if no one else thought MrZ was scummy. | ||
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yamato77
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On January 06 2013 17:02 Hapahauli wrote: What's most concerning about you right now Yamato is the relatively little analysis in your filter. I would better accept a play-style change if the scumhunting came with it. It hasn't yet, and I don't know if that's due to RL stuff or more sinister motives. Like really, I'm most interested in seeing you scum-hunt and building cases. Every time I'm on I don't really get to interact with anyone but you so hopefully at some point this changes. From here on out I'll be able to devote more time to this game so it will get better. | ||
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yamato77
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what cha wanna know? | ||
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yamato77
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He's only given a lot of town reads and acted impatient about lynching people. His filter is full of one liners that provide little reasoning for what he wants to do this game aside from Lynch people. He seems more preoccupied with there being a lynch than who is going to be lynched. He hasn't helped town find who they should lynch, either. Hapa says he's a bored townie but he looks like a scum just waiting for an excuse to hammer a townie lynch. | ||
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yamato77
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yamato77
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On January 06 2013 18:04 ShiaoPi wrote: What makes MrZ scummier than Xatalos in your opinion? Apathy about who is lynched, less scum hunting than Xatalos, less reasoning posted than Xatalos, more trollish nature to his posting. Plus he's advocated the idea that we should limit our discussions in favor of making a decision on a lynch which is a scum favored idea. | ||
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yamato77
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On January 06 2013 18:10 ShiaoPi wrote: Are you familiar with MrZ's meta? He is playing pretty much according to it imo... I am not familiar with his meta, so I don't factor that in to my decision making. | ||
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yamato77
11589 Posts
If he can't manage to pull it together and play more townie, I would certainly lynch him. Just because he has a meta of being useless as town doesn't mean he should be allowed to get away with it every game. There's always the chance he's useless and scum, you know. | ||
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yamato77
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As I've mentioned before he's advocated the idea that we should be deciding on a lynch by now, which is in opposition to the town-favored idea Hapa put forth that we should allow more time for ourselves so that we don't end up mislynching. Indeed so far that has been good, because we haven't done anything rash or stupid just because we felt we had to decide on someone to kill. On January 04 2013 09:37 MrZentor wrote: Also, dragging days out will lead to decreased interest in the game by town, increasing inactivity, and generally making things easier for scum. Days should be 48-72 hours. He's expressed this sentiment multiple times since this initial post in the form of troll votes and acts of impatience. He's pushing town toward making a bad decision which is something I do not think we should be doing. Only scum would want to advocate this idea. On January 05 2013 07:21 MrZentor wrote: I will use my hammer vote as soon as I possibly can. It's unlikely that scum will want to have the final vote on somebody, because it will put them under a lot of scrutiny. This post here he looks like he's setting himself up for making the hammer vote on a player, and then calling himself town for doing it. And again he's advocating the idea that quick hammer lynches are a good thing when they only benefit scum. On January 06 2013 11:23 MrZentor wrote: There's too little information to make an accurate lynch first day; we're just wasting time by delaying it. Here he bemoans day 1 as useless and says we should lynch someone. He doesn't have any good ideas of who to lynch, nor has he helped make day 1 more useful, he just wants to kill someone. Apathy about who is lynched is a scummy trait. So basically instead of being pro-town and scum hunting, or even offering up a scum read, he's given town reads on people and told us all to lynch someone quickly. He's playing anti town. | ||
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yamato77
11589 Posts
How is Shiao voting for a lurker who eventually got replaced scummy? He wants him to be more active, and somehow that's scum motivated? His stances are not weak. He's been putting pressure on me since he made the post, and he wants to do so to you. It's not like he's just saying shit to say it. And then this gem "I guess it's about time to finally cast a vote" Or in other words: "I'm going to put this riiiiight here. Hopefully town doesn't think I'm scummy for this!" That shit is weak, bro. | ||
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yamato77
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On January 06 2013 19:16 Xatalos wrote: It's not about the vote itself, it's about the way he did it. What caused me to feel uneasy about it was this: This is a scum in one of my earlier games. It's a frighteningly similar situation. A scum makes a vote on a lurker, but is 0% convinced about the vote, and repeats that both before and after the vote to make it absolutely clear. Talk about overdoing it? And doesn't that completely destroy any meaning the pressure vote might have had? I'm just not seeing the town motivation for doing a weak fake pressure. His stances are strong? He's been extremely hesitant and vague so far, not committing to absolutely anything. That's in stark contrast to his town meta that I know of. Shiao had good reason to pressure vote the lurker here. He didn't just slap his vote somewhere just to have it there. No one this game has been super pushy with their reads or committed to them. It's beneficial to us as town that we don't make any bad decisions on lynches this game because of the mechanics of instant majority. Nothing he's done is scummy. You've certainly tried to make it looks so, but it isn't, and it makes me think you're just looking for an excuse to vote someone. | ||
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yamato77
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On January 07 2013 05:09 Xatalos wrote: Alright. I've made my decision. I'm fine with lynching yamato77, especially if it comes down to me or him (which is a very real possibility at this point). I've outlined my reasons for having him as a lynch candidate earlier and my opinion hasn't significantly changed after that, unlike with MrZentor, DarthPunk or jaybrundage. ##Unvote ShiaoPi ##Vote yamato77 Mr. Cheesecake, I don't think it's bad to include counter-arguments within your case against someone. It should be a fair judgement after all, not a one-sided tunneling tool. Especially if you're not entirely convinced about your target being scum. Where was your inclination to lynch me earlier? Now that it's the only thing you can do to save yourself you're all for seeing me hang? You were trying to get me to follow you on voting for Shiao last night, remember? Why would you do that if you have a scum read on me? It look like you're just fitting your reads in at your convenience. I already attacked you for that scummy case post on Shiao, so convince me why I shouldn't just lynch you now. | ||
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yamato77
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On January 07 2013 05:49 Hapahauli wrote: I'm pretty interested in seeing a conversation between Yamato and Xatalos right now. Since you both want to kill each other, I want to hear your reasons for why you want each other lynched. I really hate the way he voted for Shiao, the case was bad and wrong but then he goes "I guess it's time to cast a vote" Like wtf kind of scum thinking is that? He's just looking for a reason to vote people Just like he's looking for a reason to vote me. | ||
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yamato77
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On January 05 2013 14:31 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: Yo guys, cease the shitflinging kk? You both think each other are scum, that's cool and all. You guys can make condense cases later so we don't have to sift through this mess. This argument could pretty much go on forever between you two. What say you guys to SP being super ultra mega neutral so far this game? Concerning or no? This post I referenced before but it's a huge town tell in my eyes that he wanted to stop the fight between Hapa/DP that was consuming the thread. He saw two of his town reads going at each other and managed to get them to stop shitting the thread up and post logically. Scum could have egged it on, or not even posted. On January 06 2013 09:09 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: @MrZ Get off your loaf and do something this game besides reserve your hammer like some God on Mt. Olympus. I haven't seen one bit anything controversial from you besides a few trolly comments. All I've seen is some defending of yourself via "Oh, scum don't want to hammer vote, therefore I'm auto-town yo. I can't be scum because scum don't want to do things like this." Last game you voted for yourself which scum would "never want to do". But you didn't flaunt it around to assure everyone that you were town. ##Unvote ##Vote: Mr. Zentor You were much more interesting last game. Start being interesting plx. Here he puts pressure on a player he views as not contributing. He notices the same things I have about Zentor's play. This is something I agree with and something that makes me see him in a better light for doing. You guys should rethink this. | ||
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yamato77
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Don't lynch someone until I get back. | ||
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yamato77
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The dude doesn't really care where he votes, he gives weak justifications and has continually changed his reads over the course of the game on a moment's notice to fit his agenda. It's enough for me to see him hang. ##Vote: Xatalos | ||
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yamato77
11589 Posts
I voted after Zentor even though I have been suspicious of him because he wasn't the hammer vote like he said he would be. Everyone else seems to find him fitting his town meta so I thought he might actually have thought Xatalos was scum for the reasons I did. Apparently this as not the case because his reaction to the lynch was to downplay the fact that it was a mislynch. Obviously I was correct in my read of Zentor not caring about who he lynches. I thought that because he wasn't the hammer that it meant he actually had a scum read on him but apparently he just wanted to see a lynch happen. I'll be on for the next seven hours or so sporadically. | ||
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yamato77
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Perhaps in hindsight it was an error in judgment . Given the content of his post I should have seen his true intentions instead of assuming he had the right ones just for agreeing with me. | ||
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yamato77
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I do wish he'd bothered to take the time to explain his scum read but the fact of the matter is that I did. You guys know why I wanted Xatalos dead, it's in my filter. If your problem is with Zentor's vote, maybe you should look at Zentor and discern his intentions. | ||
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yamato77
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That being said I don't think I want to lynch him tomorrow. I think Zentor's plays is worth a long look. | ||
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yamato77
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On January 08 2013 07:45 MrZentor wrote: lol Is your only response to my suspicion of you "lol"? Let's say I vote you tomorrow with case attached, are you going to just lol that too? Fucking useless. | ||
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yamato77
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A lot of people have been inactive this game, what about his inactivity is special? His OMGUS deal with Xatalos didn't seem that scummy to me. I defended him after all. Substantiate the case, if you will. | ||
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yamato77
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My town read on Shaio comes from this post: On January 06 2013 17:15 ShiaoPi wrote: Okay finally got some time to give out some thoughts. First off welcome Z-Boson, good to have a active replacement! Moving on to some housekeeping: DP's reactions since I was gone seem to me pretty townie, by extension Hapa seems town as well with the entire thoughtprocess behind tunneling being revealed. So I am retracting my scum-leaning read that I had on DP earlier. I am interested currently in these people: yamato Xatalos MrZ yamato: There are many things which would probably be me reiterating stuff that was mentioned (discrepancy in behaviour as hapa said). Not being really present, throwing votes around with little reasoning. But that can be explained by his lack of time due to RL business. could really use more analysis and reasoning from him. Xatalos: I said earlier that Xatalos is a lynchbait. That is because he is hesitating a lot, laying out a lot of his thoughts in the thread and therefore opening himself up for harsh critique if he changes his mind and posts it. His lack of any stance is alarming though. While it is somewhat just his playstyle (IIRC) I still dislike it a lot, I mean day 1 has been going for quite a long time now already, while we did not get more information through lynching there is still a lot of content to search through and find something. MrZ: He is useless, which is stupidly just his meta with the lightheartedness he has shown. I don't like useless people but cannot condemn him based on this. Actually I started this post with wanting to lynch into Xata/yamato preferrably yamato but now that I am writing those reads feel just unsatisfying...There is nothing really much that distinguishes one option from the other. I am reluctant to lynch yamato since he seems legitimately busy, also relcutant to lynch Xata for just playing as he does (same goes for MrZ). Somehow this day 1 has not been really productive >_> Aside from his read on me, which I somewhat understand, this post agreed with me in terms of who I was suspicious of. It's not a perfect town tell that someone thinks like me but it is a good one because if he's reaching the same conclusions, then I have at least some understanding of his thought process and can reasonably expect him to have similar motivations. On January 06 2013 19:11 ShiaoPi wrote: @yamato: While I like you doing more analysis, there is some stuff I do not agree with. Especially the first post you quoted with the guidelines on time. Hapa actually wanted a self-imposed deadline of 72h, which is something I did not agree to. So taking that quote from Zentor out of context makes it seem as it were all the time pushing for lynching somebody to end it the day. That is simply wrong. I can also sympathise with his sentiment that we really should start consolidating on someone by now. A much longer day 1 has negative effect on us imo. You are right when you say that his play is not necessarily pro-town by now. But I can understand where he comes from to a certain degree, which explains why I said earlier that I am torn on all my candidates for today's lynch. @Xatalos: Nice that you have popped in, but not only are you dead wrong on me but your case is crap. I expected more than cherrypicking my filter for bits you can build something on. I cannot even fathom how you critisize me for putting a vote on Rise as pressure when he had done jackshit at that moment. The next two quotes are an answer to a question I was asked to. I was asked who the other options of mine were, I responded. Don't even see what is wrong with them as if you have studied my filter it is pretty clear why I listed each of them. Now towards my stances being neutral and weak is stupid as shit. I posted my thoughts on the players I found suspicious at the moment and pressured them when they were around see the entire dialogue between me and yamato just above. As icing on the cake you take a game from almost half a year back (which was also one of my newbie games) as a "meta-argument". That is a nice example of false usage of meta-arguments. If you want to study my meta at least take the most recent game in which I was town (which is LVII if I recall correctly) and compare it to this game... This is just terribly bad and feels forced. ##vote: Xatalos This post also has a similar reaction to Xatalos' case that I had. Again, he has the same thoughts as me about the guys which leads me see him more town like. He also expresses doubt in his reads, which suggests an open mindset to new information that I think scum sometimes lack. | ||
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yamato77
11589 Posts
On January 08 2013 08:28 Hapahauli wrote: @ Yamato You think scum wouldn't have a similar reaction to you? I hate to be harsh, but it's not like you push town agendas in your town-games very frequently. Also, Shaio making a list post is not a town tell. So I should think Shaio is scum for thinking the same things as me, a town player? That doesn't make sense to me. | ||
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Also how do I look townie and push scum objectives at the same time, Hapa? Earlier you had a meta read on me because I "look townie" in YANMM but you seem to think I push scum objectives? I'm not sure I follow that line of reasoning either. | ||
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On January 08 2013 08:57 Hapahauli wrote: What prevents a scum from thinking the same way as you (if you're town)? The similarities in your thought processes have no relevance to his alignment, since we don't know if the players he's giving his thoughts on are scum or town. What if one of your town reads is scum, or if one of your scum reads is town? A mafia would be happy to think they way you are thinking. I suppose that makes sense but most people who think like me are town in my experience. I'll reconsider my read. | ||
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On January 08 2013 09:43 DarthPunk wrote: @ Yamato. You have a lot of experience playing with CC don't you? how would you say his play this game correlates to his previous games with you? @ ZB have you dramatically altered your playstyle since the last time we played together? This is certainly not the town meta I remember from you. I've only played with town CC so I haven't seen his scum meta but this game doesn't look like the games I played with him. For one, he hasn't outright called me scum yet, he's actually defended me. Two, he doesn't seem active or invested like he usually does. Like I've said before, I have had a town read on him but it isn't strong, and it's quickly degrading. As for my top scum read, I still don't like Zentor for his play day 1 and he hasn't done anything to change that. I'm going to put some time into reading filters more carefully and see if I can see things more clearly. | ||
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On January 08 2013 09:55 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: I've been calling you out for shit, apparently you haven't noticed? I wanted to LYNCH you day 1. I defended you a tad d1 and that's it. You've been saying the same things Hapa was. I don't see any reason to attach those questions to your thought process. | ||
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On January 08 2013 10:03 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: Wait what? I still never defended you besides me saying "Yamato is being Yamato". Also, how can you say I don't seem as active? I'm as active if not more active than in my previous games with you with the exception of the first half of D1. You are straight up lying. A lot of your posting this game is what I would call "posting to post". You say nothing meaningful to the thread. You announce you're here, or that you're working, or make some snarky comment. This is different from your town games where you seem actively engaged in figuring out the game. And now this. You haven't seen any reason to respond to me before, but now that I give the slightest inkling I think you might be scum, you start attacking me. OMGUS much? CC, why so scummy? | ||
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On January 08 2013 10:11 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: LOL! I've been attacking you but you haven't responded in the slightest. Plus, that post of yours where you voted me I just went "lol", I'm not attacking you because you think I'm scum. Why don't you actually do something in this game Yamato. Everyone keeps saying that I'm "posting for posting" or blah blah blah. But you of all people should know I do that as town. A LOT. C'mon Yamato let's go. Tunnel me. This is the second time you've tried to bait me into tunneling you. What is with you? It's like you want town to think you're scummy or something. As town generally you want to PROVE you're town, you know. That way you're not just wasting time. Instead you seem to want town to waste time being suspicious of you. Why? | ||
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On January 08 2013 10:18 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: Because there's nothing you can actually throw at me. Your reasons for thinking I'm scum are hallow. You state that I don't contribute anything meaningful to the thread --- What have you done? Nothing. I haven't seen any specific reasoning from you thinking I'm scum. You even defended me day 1, and said that I was promoting discussion and generally being pro-town. C'mon. Why am I scum? I defended you day 1 precisely because I thought you would contribute more meaningfully as town like you have in games past and now you aren't. You're OMGUSing people who are suspicious of you. This is not town CC. | ||
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On January 08 2013 05:17 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: His main point is that I just "heap shit on weak players". I don't know how you'd like me to defend that, because it's true. Some people need shit heaped on them to start doing stuff. Most of it is based on my shitty stream post, which, as all indicates, heaps shit on players. I heap some shit here and there, it's all fine. I want answers. And if you have to dig your way out that's perfectly fine with me. The thread has been pathetically inactive for how long the game has been going. If I have to make myself seem scummy to generate some sort of response, well here we have it. Problem is, I haven't heard from players that are really concerning like SP or Yamato. He says he has to be scummy because its the only way to move the thread forward. Again, how is this indicative of a town mindset? If he's town, why does he want to intentionally look scummy so that town wastes time and effort looking at him? No, he's much more likely to be scum baiting town into lynching him while thinking they won't because "scum wouldn't look so scummy". Furthermore, how is his play supposed to generate useful discussion? This whole post looks like post-hoc rationalization, a trademark of scum behavior. If he wanted to move the thread forward meaningfully, why didn't he do so by actually making substantiated cases on his reads with evidence to back up his cutesy one-liners? Because he's full of shit and he knows it. | ||
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On January 08 2013 11:27 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: It took you an hour to dig up that? I am disappoint. If you really thought I was scum you would have had that in 10 minutes tops. Oh, and you seemed to have missed the part where I said I wasn't intentionally looking scummy, it was just a bi-product of my shenanigans to get answers. You know, the post after that in my filter. Try harder please, Yamato. Why am I scummy? This is just an extension of the "You aren't promoting useful discussion" argument. Excuse me for having other things to do in my life besides prove to town that you are scum. Are you going to do anything today besides defend yourself? Poorly,I might add. I bring up plenty of points besides just the useful discussion point. You cannot deny it looks like straight up post-hoc rationale. You didn't intend to look scummy with your shit but now that you do and you realize people see it that way you're making up bullshit excuses for your shit play. I'm dine with reading your useless posts. It is in town's best interest to see you hang. ##Vote: Mr Cheesecake | ||
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On January 08 2013 11:45 Hapahauli wrote: Weren't you accusing him of... not defending himself before? Where is this exactly? | ||
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On January 08 2013 11:45 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: I know I just said I hate meta cases, but I think I've got a decent piece of meta here. In both of our games together, we were both town. Yamato would always post quickly and fiercely to any pressure he received. His posting this game feels more structured and put together. It's taking him a long time to put stuff together. He doesn't feel like that town Yamato I know and loathe. Now that's OMGUS. As for the bolded; I'm not defending myself. I'm trying to feel your reasons for thinking I'm scum. DP has some decent ones. You do not. You can't even explain why my posts are "useless". Lol you're fucking retarded for calling my vote on you OMGUS. I'm the one YOU responded to, remember? Who is the one making cases on the other? Your reasons for calling me scum are that my case on yoiu is "bad"? You've done nothing to prove that point aside from just saying it. You're so scummy it's ridiculous. | ||
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On January 08 2013 11:50 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: I'm not calling you scum. Paranoid much? Then what are you doing in this exchange? Posting more useless bullshit trying to not get yourself lynched. Stop claiming scum. | ||
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Man you're full of shit. | ||
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On January 08 2013 11:57 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: OMGUS can come from either alignment. I'm trying to get a feel for you and why you think I'm scum. Trying to see if you're genuine or not. If you're not calling me scum then how is there anything for me to OMGUS you for? You're full of shit. Die scum. | ||
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On January 08 2013 11:59 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: Town can OMGUS one another. It happens all the time lol. Calm yourself. OMGUS implies you are doing something I am responding with an OMGUS to. If you aren't calling me scum then how is my vote on you OMGUS at all? But apparently you aren't, so it's not OMGUS, which means you're just spouting shit out of your mouth like I said you were. Die scum. | ||
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On January 08 2013 11:59 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: @Hapa There I got Yamato to post some more. What are your thoughts on him? Is he genuine with his reasoning? I'm having a difficult time considering I know him fairly well. Can you provide some insight? I know you were lurking you devil. More of this post-hoc rationale. You're scum bro. | ||
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On January 08 2013 12:07 Hapahauli wrote: Yamato this is fucking absurd. Repeatedly screaming "die scum" at someone is the most useless fucking thing you can do. Then lynch him so I don't have to be ingratiated with his useless, scummy presence. | ||
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On January 08 2013 12:09 Hapahauli wrote: I need you (Yamato) to calmly and carefully lay out why you think CC is scum. Because the argument between the both of you has devolved to the point where it's no longer productive. Read my fucking posts. It's all there. If you don't agree with me I don't give a shit. | ||
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On January 08 2013 12:20 Hapahauli wrote: I've read your posts. Here's a summary of every reason why you think CC is scum: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=391112¤tpage=39#775 1) CC hasn't called you scum and is defending you. Therefore he's scum. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=391112¤tpage=40#788 2) Mr.CC is OMGUSing you http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=391112¤tpage=40#793 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=391112¤tpage=42#831 3) Mr.CC wants town to be suspicious of him // Mr.CC is "baiting" you into tunneling him http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=391112¤tpage=42#835 4) Mr.CC is only defending himself That's your entire case, and it's fucking insane. #1 and #2 are completely null-tells. #3 is a HUGE town-tell #4 is a null tell, and is actually false, considering he's been doing much more than defending himself in the last few pages. Have you ever considered that you're really really bad at reading Mr.CC? Have you ever gotten a read right on him? How is wanting town to be suspicious of you a town tell? The best advice I've ever been given about being town is to get out of the way of the scumhunt. He can't even manage to do that. Apparently everyone thinks I'm bad regardless of what I do but I'm putting my case out there. As I said, I don't really give a shit if you agree with me or not because I think he's scum. | ||
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On January 08 2013 12:26 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: Yamato I think you misunderstand. I'm not wanting town to be suspicious of me. It just happened and I'm rolling with it, but I'm not going to dwell on people thinking I'm scum. People being suspect of me is just a bi-product of my shenanigans. What useful purpose do you think your shenanigans honestly serve? | ||
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On January 08 2013 12:27 MrZentor wrote: IDK, too many scummy people. On second thought, let's wait a few days before killing the wrong person. Way to be useless. "Oh let's lynch someone." "No wait they're all scummy." Do you intend on doing anything today? | ||
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On January 08 2013 12:36 Hapahauli wrote: @ Yamato Back to my post over here: I'm curious. In all of the games you've played as town, when have you used ANY of these tells to actually find and lynch mafia? Apparently I can't read people so it doesn't make any difference. All of the times I have lynched mafia people said I was sheeping so whatever. I'm leaving. This was a waste. I'm arguing against the scum and his biggest supporter. | ||
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On January 08 2013 12:43 Hapahauli wrote: Stop being a whiny little bitch and get back in here. "I'm done talking to you because my feelings are hurt that I'm attacking your case" is pathetic. And is lynchable. And kid, you better listen to what the fuck I have to say, because I know a hell of a lot more about scum-hunting than you do. Well why don't you sit back and critique my cases some more, then? It's so productive for me to go after my scum read and then have you come in here and shit all over it. | ||
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On January 08 2013 12:57 Hapahauli wrote: Yeah probably. I'm generally an asshole when I play this game. Aaaaaanyway, fact is that I need Yamato to talk to me about his read. I start attacking his logic... and then he quits instead of backing himself up? That's unacceptable and doesn't play towards town goals at all. What is there for me to say? I think it makes him scum and you don't and you're of the opinion that you know better than me so I can't do anything to change your mind. End of story. | ||
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To everyone not named Hapa: Read the interaction between CC and I. Does he look townie or scummy there to you? | ||
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Hey guys. I have a secret. The secret is Hapa only has town reads on scummy trolls. Wait there's more! If you stay a scummy troll the whole game he'll think you're CONFIRMED TOWN. I know my plan. | ||
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On January 08 2013 15:44 Z-BosoN wrote: That's just plain unnecessary, I think he's being way more insightful and specific than that. What the fuck is the point of that post I'm illustrating the ridiculousness of Hapa's defense of CC's play. Who honestly thinks that guy is useful at all? He's basically claiming scum with all his "tunnel me" bullshit. I don't see why he shouldn't hang. | ||
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On January 08 2013 16:06 Z-BosoN wrote: And what about mr.Z? He was your top scum read at one point in this game. Do you still consider him a scum read? Yep. I called him out for two of the posts you did a while ago and he never responded. I would lynch him | ||
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On January 08 2013 16:03 Hapahauli wrote: Just because you say the whole "tunnel me" thing is scummy doesn't mean it actually is. Once again, show me a scum-game of any player where he or she takes that attitude as scum. Any player. I'm serious. Give me a player who did that as town. I bet that doesn't exist either. Yet you think it's a town tell to be a troll and tell people to tunnel you. Okay. | ||
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On January 08 2013 12:34 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: I'll be straight up here. I was never trying to come off scummy at all. I was trying to get answers from people by asking questions / expressing honest thoughts. Somewhere along the line, I got dubbed as scummy "omg not contributing wtf no content just posting for posting". I think to myself, really? Okay. I can't really refute that -- it would just end up in a he said she said situation. By fighting it, I'm getting in the way of finding actual scum. People would still be all over me for crap reasons if I were defending. So I embrace it. Why fight the general flow of the thread? I'm here to read people and to find scum. What a better way than to talk to people and see if they are genuine in attacking me? It's not the best plan. Nor is it even a decent plan. But it's what I've got to roll with. @Yamato My shenanigans were only limited to quote "flinging shit" on some players. That was literally it, in one post I called some people out for BS. Somehow the entire thing has been bloated up into this mess where that one post makes me scum and it apparently is the only think I've done all game. But again, I have to roll with the punches. Here he gives a different story. Apparently now be didn't expect to be the focus of attention, he made scummy posts all on his own. This is in opposition to his earlier rationalization that he acted scummy intentionally. Classic example of post-hoc rationale. He's making shit up as he goes. If this isn't indicative of scum behavior I don't know what is. | ||
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On January 08 2013 11:59 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: @Hapa There I got Yamato to post some more. What are your thoughts on him? Is he genuine with his reasoning? I'm having a difficult time considering I know him fairly well. Can you provide some insight? I know you were lurking you devil. Also is has a few of these types of posts in his filter. Instead of coming up with meaningful analysis of the information he is supposedly playing to extract from players, he defers to other people to make his reads for him, mainly Hapa. And what better way to attempt to look townie than sheep Hapa, right? | ||
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This is his filter from NMM XXXII. In this game he was doc who got NK'd night one because he led the lynch on Oatsmaster, a mafia player. Throughout his filter he contains many posts where he does meaningful analysis, is engaged in and responds actively to the thread, and is overall playing with the objective of figuring the game out. His filter this game contains only a fraction of the usefulness of his filter in that game, and he died N1 in it. This game he's been alive longer, but accrued the same amount of posts. However, not even that is the reality of his contribution because a great many of his posts are useless, trollish, or just open ended questions that seem like he's contributing. And when I say questions, I mean a lot of them. I referenced it earlier but in the stead of doing anything meaningful with the information right in front of his face, he pawns it off on another player to make sense of. On January 05 2013 12:58 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: Oh hey Hapa whats up. I need someone to talk to. Wanna cuddle? What you think of Yamato going full retard right now? On January 05 2013 14:51 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: Anyone read Mr.Z's comment about "I'm easy to read because I do stuff scum never would do!" To be scummy as fk? On January 06 2013 09:28 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: Does it sound legit? Trying to become a different / better / more sophisticated monocle-wearing player? Why am I trying to defend Yamato? Lolololol On January 06 2013 10:29 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: You really don't know the meaning of ironic, do you? And no, you've pretty much had it out for me since the start of the game. Just think you need to calm yourself. @Hapa What do you make of Yamatos vote on ya? On January 08 2013 10:36 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: @Hapa I know I'm in the middle of rolling my face over Yamato, but what do you think about Shaio always defending himself? I made a post about it during the night. Nobody has responded to it in the slightest. Is it a paranoid scumtell? On January 08 2013 11:59 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: @Hapa There I got Yamato to post some more. What are your thoughts on him? Is he genuine with his reasoning? I'm having a difficult time considering I know him fairly well. Can you provide some insight? I know you were lurking you devil. On January 08 2013 14:13 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: Also Jay: What do you make of Yamato and his interaction with me / Hapa? That's an astounding amount of reassurance he needs. He seems afraid to call people scummy, aside from his very early case on Xatalos. He wants other people to do the analysis for him. He's literally been useless in that regard. The second thing I wanted to touch upon were his defenses of himself. On January 08 2013 04:59 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: In terms of DP's case.. It's alright. He's wrong, but I'm pretty scummy and much of the argument does hold water. However, I'm fairly disinterested with the pressure on me right now. I don't think I'll be lynched tomorrow, and I won't sit here and waste time deflecting every point brought against me. We can all settle on the fact that I'm super scummy right now, and that's fine with me. On January 08 2013 05:17 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: His main point is that I just "heap shit on weak players". I don't know how you'd like me to defend that, because it's true. Some people need shit heaped on them to start doing stuff. Most of it is based on my shitty stream post, which, as all indicates, heaps shit on players. I heap some shit here and there, it's all fine. I want answers. And if you have to dig your way out that's perfectly fine with me. The thread has been pathetically inactive for how long the game has been going. If I have to make myself seem scummy to generate some sort of response, well here we have it. Problem is, I haven't heard from players that are really concerning like SP or Yamato. In these two posts he establishes the idea that somehow he intended to look scummy to generate discussion. This is not only counter-intuitive because it is a TOWNIE thing to generate discussion, but also obviously an example of what I have realized is post-hoc rationalization. His intentions when he made the posts DP called him out for were almost certainly not to look scummy. Nobody in the game ever has any interest in looking scummy. Not town, not scum, anyone. However, scum do have an interest in making their former scummy actions seem better in hindsight with the types of justifications he gives here. But then, his story changes, as I outlined clearly in my former post. Which begs the question, what is CC trying to do today? He has admittedly spent a lot of his time defending himself from my attacks, which is logical, given that I've pressured him quite hard. But what else? Has he even tried to push a scum read today? What has he done with all of the discussion that town has had today? Almost nothing. From his filter, I glean a scum read on Shaio (convenient since he's AFK), and a scummish read on Jay (classic OMGUS fashion, too). Has he tried to substantiate his read on Jay further? Or any read, for that matter, on a player who is actually active? No. He's been useless. The same as the entire game. The same as he's going to be. So lynch him, with me. | ||
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On January 09 2013 04:23 Hapahauli wrote: So my questions to Yamato would be: 1) You specifically mentioned that you were trying to make a stylistic change in the way you played, and it played a huge role in how you played the early game. Why did you not follow through, especially since you were making such a huge effort to do so? 2) How did you forget about your "Huge town tell" on CC during all of this? It's hard to believe that you forgot about something so specifically rationalized. You claim that his play seemingly got worse after Day 1 (at which point you started calling him scum), BUT this was very conveniently lined up with sentiments in the thread shifting against CC. If you think I've tunneled CC unfairly, I guess we have differing opinions. I am legitimately considering what I feel to be scummy tendencies. Obviously none of that means anything now, with his doctor claim and all, but before this point I was fairly convinced he was scum. My read shifted. He has one or two posts in the game that give town tells, and many others that seem utterly useless and full of bullshit. It took DP's case on him for me to realize that we had indeed seen a particularly unproductive CC this game and to start looking at his play a little harder. It's pathetic that he felt he needed to claim doctor to get out of being lynched. His play this game has been abysmal and I will not apologize for saying so. I have to find someone else to lynch, however. ##Unvote | ||
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On January 09 2013 07:21 MrZentor wrote: Fine. I already know who the scum are, so I'll probably not post again until you guys are ready to lynch. Also, do something about Z-Boson; he's Eywa all over again. Speak of the devil, just the man I wanted to see. How's it going, MrZ? Still doing nothing? Check. Still going after easy lynches with almost no justification? Check. Still not giving a fuck in finding a good lynch candidate? Check. Still spouting shit about being "confirmed town"? Check. How about YOU do some real scum hunting today or I lynch you. | ||
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On January 09 2013 07:35 Hapahauli wrote: You didn't answer this Yams: It's your early stance on "not tunneling people to hell" this game that I want to hear you explain. Like I said, I don't feel like I was "tunneling him to hell". I gave him fair treatment for his play this game. | ||
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On January 09 2013 07:40 Hapahauli wrote: There are many ways I could describe your tunnel of CC. "Fair treatment" isn't one of them: Yeah, did you bother to look at the bullshit he was spewing at the same time? One minute I'm scum, the next minute I'm not, etc. He was full if it. As I said, I refuse to apologize for it. | ||
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On January 09 2013 07:52 Hapahauli wrote: We have a clear disagreement for how "bullshit" his comments were. As if that wasn't clear already. | ||
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The extent of your confirmation bias against me this game is astounding Hapa. | ||
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On January 09 2013 07:45 MrZentor wrote: + Show Spoiler + On January 09 2013 07:34 yamato77 wrote: Speak of the devil, just the man I wanted to see. How's it going, MrZ? Still doing nothing? Check. Still going after easy lynches with almost no justification? Check. Still not giving a fuck in finding a good lynch candidate? Check. Still spouting shit about being "confirmed town"? Check. How about YOU do some real scum hunting today or I lynch you. How's it going, MrZ? Still doing nothing? Check. Finding the two scum by process of elimination isn't exactly nothing. + Show Spoiler + Still going after easy lynches with almost no justification? Check. I agree that you're an easy lynch, but that's only because you're bad as scum. Also, I have plenty of justification. Still not giving a fuck in finding a good lynch candidate? Check. I feel like I could answer most of these by quoting the post in which I show why Yamato and ShiaoPi are scum. Still spouting shit about being "confirmed town"? Check. Na, I'm confirmed to intelligent townies, but it's difficult to see why I'm obviously town when you're scum. That's an intended side effect of my play. It's makes it easier to catch scum. How about YOU do some real scum hunting today or I lynch you. Is it bad that I laughed at this question? XD Please excuse my dear friend Yamato77. He's just angry because I know he's scum. And he couldn't find a decent target to attack to make it look as if he's a productive townie. Which is why he chose me. Bad choice. He's even managed to make attacking him a scum tell, for God's sake. As if he's done ANYTHING to prove he's town this game. Seriously? | ||
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On January 09 2013 08:08 Hapahauli wrote: Attacking MrZ when he's town actually is a scumtell. It's funny but true. What have you done to prove that you're town? Well I don't have some fancy claim in my back pocket to be confirmed town but I've hunted the scum I felt was here. You seem to think otherwise which is dumb but whatever, it's not like it matters that much to me. My job is to find scum this game, and you've gotten in the way if that every time I've tried, Hapa. What makes MrZ town? I have no fucking idea. | ||
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On January 09 2013 08:14 MrZentor wrote: Yamato, there are two scum. Sure, I'm one in your eyes, whatever; who else do you suspect? Who do you think is the other scum? + Show Spoiler + This is going to be good. Nah, I'm done giving my suspicions out to the thread just for you to sit there and criticize me for it. ##Vote Mr Zentor Do something. Prove I'm scum if you think so because you sitting on your ass this whole game and acting like you're confirmed town is fucking pathetic. If you're confirmed town that's the BEST time to be super active and pushy with your reads. You haven't done shit and I'm not taking any off you until you do. | ||
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I'd have to give some filters a look but I'll wait for him to do something first because I've put plenty of effort into this game so far while he's done nothing. | ||
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On January 09 2013 08:23 MrZentor wrote: Pathetic excuse is pathetic. I think this is him claiming scum. Well I had two scum reads until I woke up today and one claimed doctor. I have to re-evaluate people I've been ignoring. | ||
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On January 09 2013 10:35 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: Apparently Yamato missed that post right beneath in my filter. More lies. Lol did you read the posts you conveniently cut out? You said exactly what you bolded in my post you jackass. | ||
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On January 09 2013 10:43 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: No, I did not. It seems thats what I said. Apparently you didn't read carefully to realize I clarified. Stop being mad @ me bro. By "clarified" you mean changed your whole fucking story. I am mad because you've made me waste a shitload of time looking at your scummy ass this game when you're a blue. Now people want me to have another scum read on a moment's notice. I would have lynched Shaio, too, but there's no development in me saying that because he wasn't posting. What am I supposed to do, fake a read on Hapa or some shit so you guys can call me confirmed scum? Stop being stupid with your bias against me. | ||
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On January 09 2013 11:14 MrZentor wrote: I must be bussing Yamato pretty hard. You're not supposed to let out our secret MrZ. | ||
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On January 09 2013 11:17 Hapahauli wrote: Remember when you were yelling at people to be useful? Oh those were the times... Remember when he was useful? I don't either. If he's trolling the thread I am too. | ||
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yamato77
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On January 09 2013 11:20 Hapahauli wrote: Welp. If you're going to troll from here on out, I'm going to lynch you. What will it be? What is it you think I should be doing, repeating myself over and over about why I want to lynch Zentor like he's doing with me? I'm gauging Dandel at the moment because the person he replaced could definitely have been the other scum. Otherwise, I highly doubt you, DP, or Zbo are scum. Jay probably isn't either, from what I've been reading of his filter. | ||
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On January 09 2013 11:25 Hapahauli wrote: Any analysis would help. You screaming MrZ is useless/scum won't get you anywhere. Read filters, post cases, etc. Like you have a town read on Jay all of a sudden. Why? What's the reasoning? Why would you put Z-Bo in the same category as two confirmed townies? What is in Zentor's filter besides "lynch people, I'm confirmed town, you're confirmed town, lynch this guy"? It's a pretty accurate assessment IMO. Do you really want me to pick out all the posts where he does exactly this? | ||
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On January 08 2013 15:09 jaybrundage wrote: Hapa I do care about who wants to get lynched. But The last 3 days or so my biggest scum read has been CC and your have done a great job of making sure that goes no where. I was not happy at what Zentor and Yamato. And i was posting when i was kinda pissed. Scummy wasnt the right word to use tho. I think Dumb as fuck or really stupid, or anti town would all of sufficed better. I still am Null on those players. Leaning town a bit based on what people have said about Zentor's meta and how you guys have a good read on him. Similar to how i deferred to your experience with DP for a read. I have been trying to expand my scum reads more tho cause this CC lynch doesnt look like its gonna happen unless you change your mind about him. What if you were in my position. If you had someone that you thought was scum. But the town refused to lynch him. Even had players HARD defending him. Its kind of frustrating. Z-Boson was more of a gut thing I had the same premonition last game with him and I was right he was scum. So I thought i would throw it out there as opposed to sitting on the information. Also at the top of your post you say its a push.... Its not a push its giving my consent to a lynch that your pushing. I havent made a real case yet since my last one on cc. But its wierd as well. Before most towns were very case orientated. This town not so much. Anyway If ShaioPi starts shitting town vibes and rainbows whats your next scum read? This post from jay is the kind of thing I would expect out of him as town this game. He's not pushing anything fishy, he doesn't try to act like he's completely correct, but he gives his thoughts on who could be scum, even if one of his reads is just a feeling. He's not trying to prove anything to anyone, he thinks what he thinks and that's it. It's carefree town. Other posts he seems to think I might call him scum if I'm scum because he is an easy target. I think the same way a lot of the time about other players. | ||
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On January 09 2013 11:33 Hapahauli wrote: Reasoning on Jay. Go. Hell you're trying to "gauge Dandel Ion" right now, but you haven't asked him a single question. How do you guage a guy who just replaced in without talking to him? I'm reading what you're asking him. There's not much for me to add to what you want him to do, heh. | ||
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On January 09 2013 11:34 Hapahauli wrote: As for MrZ, that's just what he does. People have said this all game about him but I think it's a shit excuse. BC said something to that effect, that players who are excused to play shitty because "it's their meta" should not be allowed to do so. Regardless if he was town wouldn't he want to actually prove that I'm scum instead of picking on me like everyone else at the moment? | ||
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On January 09 2013 11:44 Hapahauli wrote: There's not a single thing you want to ask Dandel, who is apparently the only person you can see flipping scum other than MrZ? No, I said you're already asking him the questions I want answers to. | ||
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On January 09 2013 11:50 Hapahauli wrote: Do you have free time tomorrow? Because I want you to take over for me in that regard. In the afternoon I have some. I'll make sure he's a contributing town member, Hapa. | ||
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On January 09 2013 11:54 Dandel Ion wrote: Ya I disagree. Since when do you have to flame other people to push your lynch? It's perfectly possible without doing that. When you're town that is. Frustration will come up naturally when nobody wants to lynch your lynch. Don't see the townread. The hammering is null at best, since it can be seen as wifom. Being wrong is definetly NOT a town-tell. Stop that thinking. Your townread doesn't seem to be based on much. So I'm not town, okay. Why am I scum, Dandel? Aside from process of elimination, of course. | ||
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On January 09 2013 12:04 DarthPunk wrote: You have no one to blame for that but yourself IMO This. If you want people to think you're town and not scum you should ACT LIKE IT. | ||
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On January 09 2013 12:09 MrZentor wrote: Yeah, but whenever I act town, I get lynched instantly. This is the best solution really. If I weren't playing like this, Xatalos wouldn't have been the first lynch. So your excuse is, I don't want to play like town because I get lynched? Do you know how to play town at all? | ||
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Furthermore, how am I supposed to be able to get a town read on you, or any read at all if you play like this as town and scum? | ||
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Do not compare me to that asshole. | ||
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On January 09 2013 15:03 jaybrundage wrote: At the moment I would vote for you or Ion. I actually agree with Zentor on his townie list. Its a process of elimination but tbh it think it should work fine. We have two confirmed blues with no scum counter claim, hapa who if scum then we all fucked. That leaves Zentor, Yamato, Ion, Z-Boson. I agree with Zentors reads sporatic as they may b. So that leaves You, Ion and Z-Boson. I am not sure about Z-Boson but a couple of townies have a town read on him. So No go for that lynch today. And that leaves you and Ion TBH i thought this would have been over with yet cause the lynch goes thru if its HAPA approved. @Yamato What was your motive for lynching Xatalos btw with out waiting for the town to come to an agreement? Do you feel comfortable voting for Ion, Why or why not? With that many people voting for Xatalos and agreeing he looked scummy, I felt confident enough in my read to see him lynched. Most of town had already given their opinion on the matter. I've explained this before. As for Dandel, I don't like his entrance, much for the same reasons Hapa and DP have given. The dude comes in, says he would lynch me (prime target) and never justifies the read except by arguing that DP shouldn't have a town read on me. Scum would want to enter the thread like this because I am a 'safe' scum read to have right now. What I am interested in right now is some analysis from you on your scum reads. What about me or Dandel makes us worth lynching? What makes Zentor townie to you? | ||
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On January 09 2013 15:32 Z-BosoN wrote: Just checking in, I've had a busy day, and am really really tired atm. Am going to sleep, tomorrow I'll update my reads. Pc We've basically heard nothing from you in a long time. I look forward to seeing what you think of this. Right now you are in my "most likely town but not confirmed" category, but your inactivity is weakening this. What I want to know: Why did/do you want to lynch jay? What do you think of Dandel's entrance and reads? | ||
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On January 09 2013 08:16 jaybrundage wrote: Ok so based on what we got we have two candidates for lynch today. Shiaopi and Yamato Shaiopi has been lurking alot still. Yamato was going after CC but after the recent claim. Has decided to go after Zentor. A person that Im slowly beginning to appreciate. :D Going after weak/lurky/trolly townies is a pretty big scum tell. As they aren't scum but are usually lurky and scummy so easy to mislynch. Its no small reason that I have been pushed by many a scum. I have a third candidate in mind if one of yamato or shaiopi dont flip red. Do we have a time/date we want to consolidate on? This is the only post I could find where you gave any reason for thinking that I am scum after calling me frustrated town here: On January 08 2013 14:21 jaybrundage wrote: Well lets see here he was on a Mislynch could be null tell could be scummy. I posted a case on him earlier that i thought he was scummy. He has done nothing to change my read of him. Do you think that he has done anything townie? I Think your im scummy tunnel me shit is stupid as fuck. I would say that I think that Yamato just sounds like a frustrated townie still. He's trying to give his read, and hapa is busy defending you who the fuck knows why I think he should let you defend yourself, If you do it properly at least. Instead of this im scummy tunnel me bullshit thats not helping anyone. I dont like that Hapa is so confident your town. Now your scum reads plz How did this read change? What about what I've done between now and then made me a viable lynch candidate? Because I could certainly make the point that this looks like you're just jumping on a person you have already called "lynch bait" in the thread. On January 07 2013 08:23 jaybrundage wrote: That was so badddddddddddddddddd. I was gonna go reread Xaltos posting cause the more i looked at him the more i could see townie. Like we lynched him when he wasnt even here. I only see a scum driven wagon when I look at the votes. Hapa questions do you think that both of the scum could of been on that wagon. Do you think it was scummy as fuck for what Zentor and Yamato did. Hammaring with out talking to the town first is terrible we should all b agreeing on shit. Not do rash dumb actons Also I want better explanation of this post. You come in after we lynch someone you had no part in defending. You gave a weakish town read in the thread, but all you did day 1 was push CC the whole time. Why would you want to make a post like this as town? You're using the fact that it was a mislynch to throw shit at the people who got him lynched. Scum love to do this, and the fact that it's instant majority makes that tactic all the more effective given the nature of the votes. I can just imagine a scum sitting back and watching town pile votes on a town player, and then making this exact type of post after the lynch to look smug. | ||
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I went to sleep after work because I literally only had two hours of sleep beforehand and now I wake up to like 10 pages and a lynch. Wow. Why did Dandel get wagoned on so fast? I'm going to have to take a closer look at those vote posts. | ||
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On January 10 2013 10:35 Dandel Ion wrote: Meh it's MrZ + jay. they're going for the too-obvious-to-be-scum Hardcore buddying trolling Not giving reads, not giving reasons of anything. You somehow read MrZ as town, so I want you to reflect on how bad you are, and reconsider when CC finally hammers me. And he's gonna do it let's face it. I don't have a convenient blueclaim. Dunno how you expect me to "prove" I'm town. Here he gives a Jay/ MrZ hypothesis, which seems plausible enough to me at this point. They've been calling each other town the whole game and their interactions are superficial at best. Neither one has been under significant pressure at all and neither one seems interested in giving meaningful analysis to back up their reads. On January 10 2013 10:50 Dandel Ion wrote: jay sure scum MrZ more likely than Zboson. You could even dumb Zbo down to a lynch-liars policy with a sprinkle of lynch-idiots-that-can't-read MrZ has never done anything that helps town all game, no idea how anybody could ever read him town. Here he seems convinced of jay's scumminess. He offers up the idea of lynching Z-Boson as his scum mate, giving us three distinct possibilities to look at for tomorrow in terms of the scum team: Jay/MrZ - I touched upon this earlier, it seems the most likely scum team to me given their play this game. Jay/Z-Bo - This would essentially be a double-bus scum team at this point which I think is unlikely, because as Hapa said losing 50% of your scum team just for some town cred is ludicrous thinking. It could still be possible however, so I will be paying attention to his this develops MrZ/Z-bo - The association no one has put forward yet, because it doesn't make much sense on its face. Quite a bit of day 2 from Z-Bo was spent pushing Zentor as scum, and Zentor still called Z-Boson town. This behavior could be scum-motivated, however, in that Z-Bo could have been pushing his partner the whole day because he figured it was a safe scum read to have because he wasn't in danger of being lynched, and Zentor throws the 'town' moniker around quite often, so it doesn't really mean anything. Moving forward, I think the best plan of action is to sit on the assumption that we can lynch Zentor at any point, and hunt for either his scum mate, or in the small likelihood that he's actually town, find the real scum. Unfortunately for us, the Dandel lynch wasn't as informative as it might have been because he wasn't in the game for that long, and he failed to give us any solid analysis on his reads to move forward with after his lynch. So essentially all we have is the time we give ourselves tomorrow, so if Zentor is actually town, it is in his best interest to not make good on his promise to do nothing tomorrow. That said, if he doesn't say anything, I think we should establish a point in time where he should just be lynched straight up, perhaps 18-24 hours after the day post. | ||
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His filter obviously contains at least some of his true thoughts about the game, no? Why should I discredit everything he said just because he acted stupidly? Unless you believe he literally played anti-town the entire time and was lying about his scum reads I see no reason not to take them somewhat seriously. Do you disagree with the possibility of a jay/mrz scum team? Do you disagree with my analysis of the probabilities of the scum teams I put forth? There's more there than just "summary" bro. | ||
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On January 10 2013 16:44 jaybrundage wrote: We can lynch anyone at anypoint. If it's very unlikely that hes town then why wouldn't you just lynch him? You should always lynch your best scum read. Never ever save a lynch for later on someone you think is scum. There's always the possibility that Zentor is town, isn't there? I mean we just saw a townie self-destruct yesterday. I agree he is probably scum, but even if he is I think the better move is to sit on the idea for at least a few hours. If you disagree, I want to know how you're so certain he'll flip. | ||
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On January 10 2013 17:16 jaybrundage wrote: Im not really certain about anything at this point. We still have a similar pool to lynch in but I have added Zentor to that lynch. I'm not as sure as i was about him as before. His im not going to post crap was dumb to say the least. Let me ask you this, what before that point in time made you think he was town? It's really easy to point to that post and go "scum". Your read beforehand must have been pretty weak. | ||
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Furthermore, the idea that I have been serious and not joking the entire game is obviously true. You caught me, I take mafia seriously. How this is indicative of me being scum I have yet to make the connection. I rarely joke, even as town, and am often highly emotionally strained and angry, especially in games where I am under suspicion such as my very first game on this forum, or in Parallel World Mafia. Being carefree may be a town tell, but not being carefree is almost assuredly not a scum tell. The rest of your case is pretty dumb. You're calling me scum for doing the exact things you're not, which is playing in town's best interest. How on earth is playing pro-town supposed to prove I'm scum? It's also highly convenient that this logic also exonerates you in that it implies the reverse, that people who are obviously not pro-town are somehow town. This is a subtle, smooth way to assert your own towniness while also shitting on me. Ultimately, though, your mind is obviously not on proving that I'm scum, but in implanting the idea that your behavior this game is acceptable, even though you've been anti-town for quite some time. Is it a coincidence that you've been on both wagons this game? Is it a coincidence that you have been on both of these wagons with very little justification for your votes? Why would a town player play like this? Why would a town player hold such valuable information such as the reasons for his reads for almost the entire game, only to post them when it becomes evident that not doing so will mean his head? You say a scum's objective is survival, well what objective do you think I see in this? You've been silent about this type of thing almost the whole game. Only when forced to do so have you been forthcoming with information. Isn't it in scum's best interest to withhold information from town? Isn't it easier to bullshit your reads when you don't post anything but "X is town/scum?" Isn't it easy to appear to be right with your reads if you give more town reads than scumreads? Isn't it easy to pick on people that confirmed townies have picked on? Honestly I don't see a scum team that doesn't include you. Jay/Z was likely but is becoming less probable. With the posting of this case though, you fail to explain your scum read on Z-Bo at all. It seems he's only scum because of some process of elimination. No, what you're doing here is considering who you think you can get mislynched tomorrow, because that wins you the game. You've never really tried to get Z-Bo lynched this entire game, you've focused on getting me lynched, a townie. It's sure easy to bus your partner if he's never had any votes on him, isn't it? The same could be said for Z-bo, in that you've never really been in any danger of getting lynched until now, and right now no one is getting lynched. Could definitely see Z/Z scum team as a possibility. It sounds silly on its face, like I said before, but it's all WIFOM at some point. | ||
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On January 11 2013 09:58 MrZentor wrote: You blame me for being on both wagons, but you hammered Xatalos. And if you think a Z/Z scum team is probable, then can we agree to lynch him tomorrow? After all, he's a scum read to both of us. And it's not like your pretending to be okay with voting him, just so you keep tunneling me, right? I would lynch either of you. | ||
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On January 11 2013 10:04 MrZentor wrote: Okay, well I think you're bluffing. I doubt you would lynch Z-Boson. And because you think we're both scum, what would be wrong with killing Z-Boson instead of me first? Why should I believe that you're not bluffing? As I said, you can talk all the shit you want but your focus, even right now, is pushing town to lynch me. You're just using this as a way to try to "trap" me. You're better scum than I thought, Zentor. | ||
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On January 11 2013 10:09 MrZentor wrote: Okay, so you think I might be bluffing, and I think you might be bluffing. So why don't we both agree to kill Z-Boson tomorrow? And we'll see once and for all who's bluffing. We'll see who's Boson's scum partner. How is lynching Boson going to help anything? He flips town, and you win because it was jay/mrz scum team. He flips scum, and then we both are left thinking the other is scum and bussed, and it does nothing to prove anything. Like I said I have no problem lynching him but you're implying that you know the alignment of him/jay which is something that is not confirmed by any means. Your certainty about this matter is unsettling. | ||
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On January 11 2013 10:24 Hapahauli wrote: You seem remarkably calm about this Yamato. And it's unsettling how you're calling Z-Bo scum without a single mention of him in your filter. You know as well as I do that I have to consider the possibility at this point. It would be stupid to ignore Z-Bo as potential scum mates with Zentor just because I've had a town read on him. Zentor's found a way to call me scum for anything I do at this point and it's annoying to deal with his pestering. Obviously his intention is not to lynch Boson here, as I said, it's to make me look bad because I haven't had a scum read on Z-Boson for the whole game like him. He's also put forth the idea that scum wouldn't bus, which makes himself look better and myself look worse at the same time. He's doing the same shit he's been doing all day which is unsurprising. I would humor him and lynch Z-Bo but why take the risk? What if jay/zentor is the scum team? Then town loses. It's far safer of a choice in my opinion to lynch Zentor and then go from there. | ||
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On January 11 2013 10:38 Hapahauli wrote: No no no, see you're calling Z-Bo scum out of your ass. Why do you think Z-Bo is scum all of a sudden? I'm not saying anything "out of my ass". If I believe Zentor is scum, which I do, then I have to consider his scum partner at this point, and there are only two people who could possibly be that, which is Jay and Boson. I've covered exactly why each one does and doesn't make sense to me in my filter. It's far more suspicious that he is so convinced of Jay's towniness that he, if town, would risk losing the game straight up to jay/yamato scum team just to lynch Z-Boson. | ||
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On January 11 2013 10:43 MrZentor wrote: He called Z-Bo scum to try to contradict this. But I called him on his bluff.  Oh yeah, I wrote that gigantic post all in ten minutes, you're so smart. I didn't even see your stupid post before now. I'd also put forth the idea of a Z/Z scum team before this point, in my analysis of the game state after Dandel's lynch. Yeah, no. You're just making shit up now. | ||
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How the fuck is what Zentor is doing right now even remotely proof that he's town? God damn this game. | ||
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So many weird thing being said right now | ||
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On January 11 2013 10:58 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: This sounds like fabricated frustration imo. Cheesecake you're retarded Gogo useless confirmed town | ||
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On January 11 2013 11:00 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: The fact that you rage at me for everything makes me think you're scum Yeah because those other games we played together I never raged at you when we were both town, right? I don't know how much more dumb you can be. | ||
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On January 11 2013 11:06 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: I told you Jay I haven't a clue. Could be any two of you fuckers. Problem is, even though Mr. Z pissed me off with his play this game, I kind of want him to win for lulz if he's scum You're fucking useless as shit. God damn if you hadn't wasted so much of my fucking time this game I could have figured this shit out by now. Even as confirmed town you still say shit I could lynch you for. | ||
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Z-Bo isn't scum. I refuse to follow along with Zentor's bullshit plan. If you guys aren't lynching him I want to lynch Jay. | ||
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Jay has to be the second scum. Neither one has done shit this game for town until it was clear we were heading in their direction and now they both pop out with a bunch of WIFOM bullshit to throw at us. Fuck that, lynch the scummers. | ||
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On January 11 2013 11:39 MrZentor wrote: And Yamato comes in and defends Z-Boson. lol No shit, you're fucking scum trying to get him lynched why the fuck would i think he's scum now? dumbass | ||
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On January 11 2013 11:46 DarthPunk wrote: What the fuck is this shit Yamato. Am I actually wrong about you and Jay? I don't know why I was letting myself get WIFOM'd by Jay's case on Zentor when it obviously meant nothing, he just made it to distance himself on the hopes it would work and it almost did. Him giving it up and calling Zentor town on a fucking whim all over again means he was just full of shit. If I believe Zentor to be scum, which I do, I cannot at this point lynch Boson in my right mind. Jay must be his partner | ||
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Jay with the vote on Z-Bo. Fuck this game. | ||
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On January 11 2013 12:12 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: Just musing on some stuff: Why would Mr. Z scum try to kill Hapa night 1? Hapa was the only reason he was staying alive imo. Everything else in the game is WIFOM but the N1 NK aimed at the towniest player in the game is meaningful. Okay CC. | ||
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On January 11 2013 12:16 jaybrundage wrote: Question Why are you hard defending Zbo? Because if I believe MrZ is scum, then why the fuck would I lynch someone he wants to lynch when he says bussing is a bad scum play? | ||
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On January 11 2013 12:17 MrZentor wrote: Yamato, if I were you, I would stop hard defending Z-boson. You're going to make it way too easy after he dies. I mean, you could have at least pretended to want him dead. According to you it doesn't matter. Again, if I think you're scum why the FUCK would I let you talk me into lynching Boson? No, it's jay/you and that's it. | ||
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I'm so frustrated right now it's mind boggling i should not be playing mafia peace | ||
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My first scum game, and I played terrible. I already conceded to the hosts in the QT. Lost in two games on the same day. | ||
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It was a dumb decision to tunnel you with the blue claim to make it all worthless but you were really easy to make look bad and I knew I could shit up the thread a bit with you, you always played along. Hapa pointed it out later, the part that tipped us off to you being doc. Anyway Zentor is fucking good as town. He is town MVP. Us as mafia challenged him to do something, and he did. Another mistake. | ||
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Sorry Xatalos it wasn't your fault lol. If we had let Hapa/DP weigh in I would have been lynched yes. | ||
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I actually dared him to prove himself town with my questions and he basically ignored me even though he had a town read on me. | ||
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Hapa I'm sorry I did what I did this game. I have great respect for you as a player but I had to be so stupid you would never believe I was scum. It almost worked. | ||
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On January 12 2013 04:17 Z-BosoN wrote: Yea I really needed a backup plan there. I put all my eggs in one basket by giving yamato a town read. I'd have been better off being suspicious of him and bussing him. I kept saying I should be bussed in the QT. My play early game was horrid. | ||
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On January 12 2013 04:27 Dandel Ion wrote: Well gotta balance out that everyone calls me terrible even though the guy that got lynched was Shiaopi, not me. Not to be an ass, but you did kill yourself with your moaning about being under suspicion. Like I said earlier there were chances to prove yourself town that you ignored. | ||
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On January 12 2013 04:28 Hapahauli wrote: No worries! And I'm sorry for basically cursing you out at several points in the game >> I really didn't think your confrontational attitude would translate over to your scum-game, but now I know =O I didn't want it to but you kept saying it wouldn't so it had to lol. | ||
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If you had bothered to read Yet Another Normal Mini (link to game an filter in my profile) I played well enough to put down any doubts about my alignment. I had a day 1 miller claim to help, but I feel I did a good job regardless. Even in LVIII there were very little doubts as to my alignment. One of the only ones came from scum, and never went anywhere. But yeah I wasn't going to correct you when you thought I was like Eywa. I got legit mad when you guys made that comparison, and even posted in the thread about it but it helped that people thought I was bad so I let it slide. | ||
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