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On January 07 2013 06:05 Hapahauli wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2013 06:02 MrZentor wrote:
I didn't want to say this.
But CC and I are cousins.
I know how to read him, and trust me, he's town. Wait rofl, is this for real, or is this just a play on your names?
He's just fucking with you guys - ROFL.
Althought we could be cousins and not know it.
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On January 07 2013 06:17 Hapahauli wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2013 06:14 Xatalos wrote:On January 07 2013 06:02 Hapahauli wrote:
@ Xatalos
You mentioned that your vote would end up on yamato, Shaio, or CC today. A process of elimination read on yamato makes absolutely no sense when you have other potential lynch candidates. What are your current thoughts on Shaio and CC? Mr. Cheesecake: he's had good engagement with the thread lately, but he hasn't actually done much. Much of his posting is just fluff or nearly fluff, like the stream of thought post for example. It doesn't feel like he wants to really affect the thread, more like comment on things of his choosing and follow along... It could very well be Mafia. I'm definitely pro-lynch on him. ShiaoPi: still concerned about his fake pressure, OMGUS vote on me, relative lack of contribution etc. I can easily see his filter from a Mafia perspective, unlike several other players (Hapahauli, MrZentor, jaybrundage). It all comes down to what's realistic. It's starting to look like ShiaoPi is not, Mr. Cheesecake and yamato77 may well be. So I'm not pushing for ShiaoPi to be lynched right now. I need less general statements and more specific analysis. Lynching based on realism = not good. Who is your top scumread based on behaviour alone and why? Let's pretend for a minute that everyone, is up on the block, and you control who the town is going to lynch. Who are you going to lynch?
Hapa, you said somewhere that you had a town read on Jay. Could you extrapolate on that a bit?
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On January 07 2013 06:31 jaybrundage wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2013 06:26 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:On January 07 2013 06:17 Hapahauli wrote:On January 07 2013 06:14 Xatalos wrote:On January 07 2013 06:02 Hapahauli wrote:
@ Xatalos
You mentioned that your vote would end up on yamato, Shaio, or CC today. A process of elimination read on yamato makes absolutely no sense when you have other potential lynch candidates. What are your current thoughts on Shaio and CC? Mr. Cheesecake: he's had good engagement with the thread lately, but he hasn't actually done much. Much of his posting is just fluff or nearly fluff, like the stream of thought post for example. It doesn't feel like he wants to really affect the thread, more like comment on things of his choosing and follow along... It could very well be Mafia. I'm definitely pro-lynch on him. ShiaoPi: still concerned about his fake pressure, OMGUS vote on me, relative lack of contribution etc. I can easily see his filter from a Mafia perspective, unlike several other players (Hapahauli, MrZentor, jaybrundage). It all comes down to what's realistic. It's starting to look like ShiaoPi is not, Mr. Cheesecake and yamato77 may well be. So I'm not pushing for ShiaoPi to be lynched right now. I need less general statements and more specific analysis. Lynching based on realism = not good. Who is your top scumread based on behaviour alone and why? Let's pretend for a minute that everyone, is up on the block, and you control who the town is going to lynch. Who are you going to lynch? Hapa, you said somewhere that you had a town read on Jay. Could you extrapolate on that a bit? Hey CC you said you have a scum read on me. Would you lynch me today? Do you plan to do any follow up on the case?
All you've done today is tunnel me.
No I won't lynch you today. I'll follow up on your case (even though i never had one against you) during the night depending on the flip.
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On January 07 2013 06:35 Z-BosoN wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2013 06:07 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:On January 07 2013 06:00 Hapahauli wrote:On January 07 2013 05:59 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:On January 07 2013 05:53 Z-BosoN wrote:On January 07 2013 04:42 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:Just going to do a stream of consciousness kind of thing as I read the thread. Spoilered stuff so it doesn't take up ridiculous amounts of space. + Show Spoiler +On January 06 2013 17:15 ShiaoPi wrote:
Okay finally got some time to give out some thoughts.
First off welcome Z-Boson, good to have a active replacement!
Moving on to some housekeeping:
DP's reactions since I was gone seem to me pretty townie, by extension Hapa seems town as well with the entire thoughtprocess behind tunneling being revealed. So I am retracting my scum-leaning read that I had on DP earlier.
I am interested currently in these people:
yamato
Xatalos
MrZ
yamato:
There are many things which would probably be me reiterating stuff that was mentioned (discrepancy in behaviour as hapa said). Not being really present, throwing votes around with little reasoning. But that can be explained by his lack of time due to RL business. could really use more analysis and reasoning from him.
Xatalos:
I said earlier that Xatalos is a lynchbait. That is because he is hesitating a lot, laying out a lot of his thoughts in the thread and therefore opening himself up for harsh critique if he changes his mind and posts it. His lack of any stance is alarming though. While it is somewhat just his playstyle (IIRC) I still dislike it a lot, I mean day 1 has been going for quite a long time now already, while we did not get more information through lynching there is still a lot of content to search through and find something.
MrZ:
He is useless, which is stupidly just his meta with the lightheartedness he has shown. I don't like useless people but cannot condemn him based on this.
Actually I started this post with wanting to lynch into Xata/yamato preferrably yamato but now that I am writing those reads feel just unsatisfying...There is nothing really much that distinguishes one option from the other. I am reluctant to lynch yamato since he seems legitimately busy, also relcutant to lynch Xata for just playing as he does (same goes for MrZ).
Somehow this day 1 has not been really productive >_> So what you're saying is, you don't want to lynch anyone? + Show Spoiler +On January 06 2013 17:25 ShiaoPi wrote:
I do scumhunt, just because I am not writing a case on anything that moves does not mean I am not doing it...
Boson is pretty much town in my eyes, no reason to share his spreadsheet with his thoughts lined out with us if he were scum. Also he has directly started to scumhunt as soon as he replaced in, gets lots of towniepoints from me.
CC is someone I don't want to lynch today, you may think him scummy for not making a shitton of cases but that is just a difference in playstyle imo. Looking through his filter he is actively trying to get more information out of people by asking questions promoting discussing. What I dislike is parking his vote on MrZ but that is nothing to be honest.
Who the fuck do you want to lynch?? + Show Spoiler +On January 06 2013 17:58 yamato77 wrote:
Mr Zentor
He's only given a lot of town reads and acted impatient about lynching people. His filter is full of one liners that provide little reasoning for what he wants to do this game aside from Lynch people. He seems more preoccupied with there being a lynch than who is going to be lynched. He hasn't helped town find who they should lynch, either. Hapa says he's a bored townie but he looks like a scum just waiting for an excuse to hammer a townie lynch. Ahh something me and Yamato agree on... I hate that Mr. Z ain't doin shit this game. + Show Spoiler +On January 06 2013 18:06 yamato77 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2013 18:04 ShiaoPi wrote:
What makes MrZ scummier than Xatalos in your opinion? Apathy about who is lynched, less scum hunting than Xatalos, less reasoning posted than Xatalos, more trollish nature to his posting. Plus he's advocated the idea that we should limit our discussions in favor of making a decision on a lynch which is a scum favored idea. No, Yamato wtf. Advocating a shorter time limit is not scum favored -- it promotes activity because we have an artificial deadline to adhere by. 72 hours is plenty. Not a reason to lynch MrZ. On January 06 2013 18:49 yamato77 wrote:Is the only reason you want to lynch him is that he's useless? That's the only thing his meta might excuse but I think there are other parts of his play that are scummy. As I've mentioned before he's advocated the idea that we should be deciding on a lynch by now, which is in opposition to the town-favored idea Hapa put forth that we should allow more time for ourselves so that we don't end up mislynching. Indeed so far that has been good, because we haven't done anything rash or stupid just because we felt we had to decide on someone to kill. Show nested quote +On January 04 2013 09:37 MrZentor wrote:
Also, dragging days out will lead to decreased interest in the game by town, increasing inactivity, and generally making things easier for scum.
Days should be 48-72 hours. He's expressed this sentiment multiple times since this initial post in the form of troll votes and acts of impatience. He's pushing town toward making a bad decision which is something I do not think we should be doing. Only scum would want to advocate this idea. Show nested quote +On January 05 2013 07:21 MrZentor wrote:
I will use my hammer vote as soon as I possibly can.
It's unlikely that scum will want to have the final vote on somebody, because it will put them under a lot of scrutiny. This post here he looks like he's setting himself up for making the hammer vote on a player, and then calling himself town for doing it. And again he's advocating the idea that quick hammer lynches are a good thing when they only benefit scum. Show nested quote +On January 06 2013 11:23 MrZentor wrote:
There's too little information to make an accurate lynch first day; we're just wasting time by delaying it. Here he bemoans day 1 as useless and says we should lynch someone. He doesn't have any good ideas of who to lynch, nor has he helped make day 1 more useful, he just wants to kill someone. Apathy about who is lynched is a scummy trait. So basically instead of being pro-town and scum hunting, or even offering up a scum read, he's given town reads on people and told us all to lynch someone quickly. He's playing anti town. Okay this is rediculous. Yamato I feel like you're pressuring the weakest player right now (in terms of actualy content). These are super easy points to make as scum. These aren't good reasons to lynch Mr Z at all. + Show Spoiler +On January 06 2013 18:52 Xatalos wrote:Welcome, Z-Boson! I'm glad you're being very townish and contributive so far, which means we have one less player out of the lynching table (I didn't like lynching RiseAgain either, but this is a much easier judgement than that). Show nested quote +On January 06 2013 15:35 Z-BosoN wrote:Allright, caught up. What concerns me about Xatalos, as you can see in the spreadsheet is this post: On January 05 2013 22:20 Xatalos wrote:On January 05 2013 15:00 DarthPunk wrote:On January 05 2013 14:52 Hapahauli wrote:On January 05 2013 14:48 DarthPunk wrote:On January 05 2013 14:46 Hapahauli wrote:On January 05 2013 14:45 DarthPunk wrote:
oh and If I had to lynch now and hapa was dead. hmmm. dunno I would need to read more filters. Actually I would wait to vote until something solid comes up. Remember when you called Xatalos scummy as shit? Yeah I guess you forgot about that huh? Yeah. He is. But I am not certain. Holy fuck dude I change my mind and am unsure as a townie with no info on day one. That doesn't sound plausible at all now does it? Yeah, but how the hell did you change your mind so quickly? You just called Xatalos "scummy as shit" barely an hour ago. Then all of a sudden you're unsure again? Holy fuck. What do you not understand about this. I am town. I have no additional info. I have to figure shit out. The way I figure shit out is to have ideas and then alter these ideas with changing info or more thought applied to the problem. Whilst I was flaming with you I was thinking about Xatalos. Now the thing about Xatalos is that he is a pretty bad townie. He likes to sheep and he changes his mind. Changing your mind is a pretty bad thing to do as scum because people such as yourself for some reason view it as scummy, and as scum you don't need to change your mind. You can defend someone you know will flip town and be fully justified in doing that later when he flips. You can also tunnel people as long as they aren't your buddies, and even then you can do so. So changing his mind/sheeping was originally scummy but not with some further thought applied. His list post irks me as all lists post do in general HOWEVER re reading it actually contained decent content and seemed to fit someone trying to figure shit out. Not scummy. So. He is back to null after reevaluation and I need to figure some other shit out. Savvy? Hmm.. Posts like this are the reason why I originally viewed DP as townish. From time to time there are scummy traits in his filter (angriness, contradictions...) but then again, there are many posts where he appears to genuinely try solving the game. For example this earlier post of his: On January 05 2013 06:16 DarthPunk wrote:
I don;t like either of the 'cases' to be perfectly honest.
Rise is completely null to me. And to be honest you are the one picking a fight with rise. There should be one read due to Rises' aggression and that is null. I thought that you were simply following up on him in order to push the town to be active. However you trying to drum up support for a bandwagon based of something that any player of your calibre should KNOW is a null tell is not 'potentially scummy' it IS scummy. and it has me worried.
Since when do you call things 'potentially scummy' anyway??? sounds really fucking off to be honest.
Yeah it was a WTF post from yamato initially. But his explanation, willingness to be open and transparent, and the fact that his original WTF post turned out to be an exercise in an open thought process give me a town read on yamato at this juncture.
And once again I am wondering how the fuck a town hapa is not reaching the same conclusions as myself and is pushing the wagons of two people who are null at worst.
These well thought-out and contentful posts about several players seem like something Mafia would have a hard time doing. Not impossible, of course, but they just fit town agenda a lot better. Combined with DP's relatively high activity and the speed at which the ghost bandwagon for him gained support, I don't really feel comfortable lynching him today. There's also the point that in my experience, a town vs town flamewar is the most obvious explanation for a fight between active players. With that said, there are some things in his filter that I don't like. DP, if you're there, I want your take on the following matters. On January 05 2013 07:04 DarthPunk wrote:What was on top of my agenda was figuring out hapa as you are the scariest player in this game, and if I could get a solid town read on you we could roll these scum. Unfortunately you went retard and or are scum so now I have to deal with a hapa tunnelling me based on On January 05 2013 06:54 Hapahauli wrote:
Straight-up OMGUS and a sprinkle of gut-feeling. You scum brah. All the while I am somehow illogical despite having really solid reasoning and you just ignoring that to serve your OMGUS agenda. Well, that is cool with me HAPA. I don't have to convince you you are scum. I just have to convince the town. And that should be straightforward after this little party we have been having together. I just can't wrap my head around this post. Here's what it basically says: 1) Hapa is the best player in this game 2) He's a retard and/or scum 3) He's definitely scum Where's the coherency and logic in all this? You called me out for switching my opinions in the time of 1-2 hours, but you're switching your opinions even inside the same post... It makes me think this could all be fake reasoning, only aimed at pushing an agenda, not finding the truth. And why is it so bad for Hapa to push weak cases? What it does is create discussion and draw opinions, likely even hints to several players' alignments, and simply there almost CAN'T be any strong cases this early. So it's infinitely better to push a weak case than merely talk policy or semantics. I have a hard time seeing why this makes Hapa scum exactly? - - - Alright. I don't have any strong scumreads at the moment, but... There are two players I'm considering for today. Mr. Cheesecake- Lots of one-liners that add nothing to the thread - So far his only suspect is me, based on my uncertainty about DP... and nothing else to add to the discussion? - A reasonable amount of posts, but basically nothing of value except the (weak) case on me - Generally being quite forgettable and blending in without drawing attention at all yamato77- Voting for Mr. Cheesecake since... why? - Weird logic and reasoning... scrambling for something to back up his opinions? - Practically nothing useful in his (short) filter - Talking almost exclusively about meta/policy/semantics, nothing really meaningful related to this game His bit on DP reads to me as a biiiig over-justification. What is he trying to accomplish on DP? What is the purpose of beggining by stating why DP looks town, and then refuting it? Xatalos, I'd like you to better explain this post, so I can better understand where you are coming from. The reason I have conflicting arguments about DP's alignment is because I have conflicting feelings about him. Some posts he seems townish, some posts scummy. By the way, he still hasn't responded to any of my questions earlier... Even though he has posted a reasonable amount since then. That doesn't make me feel too good about him, but it's not like we're lynching him anyways (there are so many people who are hiding in plain sight compared to him), so I'd rather not focus on him for now. It's true that MrZentor has been quite passive and non-contributing, but he was somewhat like this in Paranoia Mafia as well (and he was town). And I got a townish feel from the discussion we had earlier in the thread. I don't feel like he's a good lynch. I said I was ready to vote for Mr. Cheesecake, but somehow I don't feel like it's a sufficiently justifiable lynch. He's had some townish posting lately and my read on him wasn't strong to begin with. But there's someone else I want to discuss... ShiaoPiThe first thing that doesn't seem right is this post: Show nested quote +On January 05 2013 12:14 ShiaoPi wrote:Hmm looks like RiseAgain has still not responded.... Anyway moving onto the matters more at hand for now. I don't think that DP or Hapa are scum, it feels much more like townies at each others throats for minor things. While I can see where both are coming from during the exchange I does kind of worry me that DP does not follow up with a vote as Hapa does. Does not seem to fit when he calls him scum more than once earlier. @Mr.CC Xatalos is kind of a lynchbait in itself. He is not that easy to read (at least for me), but what I have seen so far from him does not really convince me on his scumminess. From time to time he does these 180-turns but usually it is because he lays his entire thoughtprocess out and therefore every nook and turn of his mind is in the thread. He is nullish right now. I want to see more from RiseAgain, so ##Vote: RiseAgainget in here and do something please!  I agree with his points about Hapa/DP and myself, but then comes the weird "pressure" vote. It reminds me so much of an earlier game where one Mafia player made a similar pressure vote without ANY conviction. There's even a double (over?)justification for this vote (I want to see more from him - VOTE - do something please). It feels like just a ploy to appear scumhunting with pressure, but that pressure is so weak and apologetic that it doesn't look like he even tried to accomplish anything. It's just all too indifferent about gaining any new information and basically voting for the sake of having voted. Show nested quote +On January 05 2013 12:26 ShiaoPi wrote:
Right now I am torn between the two of jaybrundage and yamato77.
More tending towards yamato77 for his meltdown in logic as jaybrundage has done nothing, which is bad but not necessarily scum Show nested quote +On January 05 2013 12:26 ShiaoPi wrote:
EBWOP: oh and someone I would be more reluctant to lynch but could agree to is DP Just listing possible lynch candidates without much (or any in DP's case) reasoning, and putting his foot pre-emptively in a lot of bandwagons. Not advancing the thread, not scumhunting, merely agreeing to lynch several players. Show nested quote +On January 06 2013 17:15 ShiaoPi wrote:
Okay finally got some time to give out some thoughts.
First off welcome Z-Boson, good to have a active replacement!
Moving on to some housekeeping:
DP's reactions since I was gone seem to me pretty townie, by extension Hapa seems town as well with the entire thoughtprocess behind tunneling being revealed. So I am retracting my scum-leaning read that I had on DP earlier.
I am interested currently in these people:
yamato
Xatalos
MrZ
yamato:
There are many things which would probably be me reiterating stuff that was mentioned (discrepancy in behaviour as hapa said). Not being really present, throwing votes around with little reasoning. But that can be explained by his lack of time due to RL business. could really use more analysis and reasoning from him.
Xatalos:
I said earlier that Xatalos is a lynchbait. That is because he is hesitating a lot, laying out a lot of his thoughts in the thread and therefore opening himself up for harsh critique if he changes his mind and posts it. His lack of any stance is alarming though. While it is somewhat just his playstyle (IIRC) I still dislike it a lot, I mean day 1 has been going for quite a long time now already, while we did not get more information through lynching there is still a lot of content to search through and find something.
MrZ:
He is useless, which is stupidly just his meta with the lightheartedness he has shown. I don't like useless people but cannot condemn him based on this.
Actually I started this post with wanting to lynch into Xata/yamato preferrably yamato but now that I am writing those reads feel just unsatisfying...There is nothing really much that distinguishes one option from the other. I am reluctant to lynch yamato since he seems legitimately busy, also relcutant to lynch Xata for just playing as he does (same goes for MrZ).
Somehow this day 1 has not been really productive >_> All of his stances are neutral and weak. Although it's a bit hypocritical since I've been hesitant as well, but when he was town in our earlier game together, he had VERY strong opinions and even hard defended a scum until he actually flipped red. When he was Mafia, he was very quiet and vague. This just feels like much more fitting his scum meta, although it's not a huge pool of evidence.With this, I'm actually much more confident in ShiaoPi being scum than Mr. Cheesecake. It's also late in the day, so I guess it's about time to finally cast a vote. ##Vote ShiaoPi OMG TAKE A STANCE ON SOMETHING INSTEAD OF DISCREDITING YOUR OWN READ + Show Spoiler +On January 06 2013 19:36 Xatalos wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2013 19:25 ShiaoPi wrote:
I am voting you now because:
-flip flopping on DP in some logical inconsistencies earlier
-not committing at all earlier
-writing a terribly bad case for the sake of writing one to get some pressure off yourself.
call it OMGUS if you want, I don't think so.
Also you have been on my hitlist now, Zentor is not around so I cannot ask him stuff right now, I just asked yamato a bunch of stuff earlier. Leaving you and with that crap contribution you look like the best option for today's lynch When was I under pressure...? I've just been trying find someone scummier than Mr. Cheesecake, but it's not an easy job, considering the relatively low activity and the high amount of townish/nullish players. There are many things in your filter that strike me as suspicious (mentioned earlier), and even though they're partly intuition and not solid proof, it's better than Mr. Cheesecake in my eyes (he started off under the radar but has had some engagement since then). Why are you actively seeking to stop pressuring me?? Apparently anybody will do for this lynch despite your null reads on everybody. + Show Spoiler +On January 06 2013 21:27 ShiaoPi wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2013 20:05 Xatalos wrote:On January 06 2013 19:41 ShiaoPi wrote:On January 06 2013 19:36 Xatalos wrote:On January 06 2013 19:25 ShiaoPi wrote:
I am voting you now because:
-flip flopping on DP in some logical inconsistencies earlier
-not committing at all earlier
-writing a terribly bad case for the sake of writing one to get some pressure off yourself.
call it OMGUS if you want, I don't think so.
Also you have been on my hitlist now, Zentor is not around so I cannot ask him stuff right now, I just asked yamato a bunch of stuff earlier. Leaving you and with that crap contribution you look like the best option for today's lynch When was I under pressure...? I've just been trying find someone scummier than Mr. Cheesecake, but it's not an easy job, considering the relatively low activity and the high amount of townish/nullish players. There are many things in your filter that strike me as suspicious (mentioned earlier), and even though they're partly intuition and not solid proof, it's better than Mr. Cheesecake in my eyes (he started off under the radar but has had some engagement since then). Several people have mentioned you as a possible lynch candidate that qualifies as under pressure. I would really be interested in those "many things" in my filter that are suspicious, I already answered the ones you quoted earlier. Please show them to me, I don't even know where you find them. Anyway I am out for dinner now. See you later. Okay... I guess that counts as pressure, although I haven't been even remotely in a dangerous spot until now. But this always happens to me when I'm town at some point, so I'm not too worried yet. Are you saying you were really pressuring RiseAgain? I just can't see anything but a weak fake pressure in that. Merely voting for someone without any actual pressure doesn't count as pressure. Some other players in this game have thrown away weak votes as well, but at least they tried to create some pressure. You didn't even try - the opposite, you openly said it was only an empty vote beforehand. Why were you suddenly okay with lynching DP when he started to gain a bandwagon for himself? All I can see is an opportunistic (yet extremely vague) move to potentially get rid of an active player. And when the bandwagon started to crumble, you suddenly dropped him from your suspects without saying a word about it. It feels like you're just trying to get someone lynched, and it doesn't really matter who. So I am back. Where did I say I was really pressuring Rise? I clearly said it was to get him to post, since I had questions for him, that I wanted to answer. It is blatantly clear in my filter.
I was not "suddenly" okay with lynching DP, stop misrepresenting facts. Mr.CC asked me who my other possible candidates were. That was after the first episode of DP/Hapa-shitfest but before the entire wagon on him started. I was active during the increasing pressure on DP, being part of it myself, before I had to leave cause of RL matters. How is it opportunistic for me to be one of the persons being there while the pressure added up, when I really thought that he might be red?? The bandwagon started to crumble because DP was doing some really townish posts, thing is I was not in the thread at that time. As soon as I was back und caught up I removed DP from my hitlist as he was much more townie now. I did not want to bloat my post with the DP matter again, when it was not part of the trending discussion in the thread, but I did "say a word" about it.... Show nested quote +On January 06 2013 17:15 ShiaoPi wrote:
Okay finally got some time to give out some thoughts.
First off welcome Z-Boson, good to have a active replacement!
Moving on to some housekeeping:
DP's reactions since I was gone seem to me pretty townie, by extension Hapa seems town as well with the entire thoughtprocess behind tunneling being revealed. So I am retracting my scum-leaning read that I had on DP earlier.
-snip- I for sure care who gets lynched, seriously are you even reading this thread? I clearly stated which persons I want to lynch during varying times already. I'm confused Batman. Pressure votes get ppl to post and stuff -- why are you saying you're not pressuring him? This post is basically just a summary of events also, useless kk. What are your conclusions? You just read in a biased way, but you don't draw any conclusions whatsoever. There's nothing anyone can defend or support to. This is an useless effort. Well you asked me to give my thoughts on the last few pages. And there you go. I don't draw any conclusions because it's just what I was thinking. So yes, it is pretty useless, but it pushes whatever I was thinking at the time out there. Yes, but what are your conclusions? I'm rather interested in hearing them. Conclusions? I hate Yamato's reasoning for voting Mr. Z. Could be scum trying to push the easiest player to lynch. (Mr. Z is an easy target, he even says it himself). SP OMGUS votes Xatalos even though he "isn't sure" about lynching anybody. I'm actually not sure if it's a town reaction or scum reaction. Maybe you can provide some insight on this. Xatalos still scummy as hell, not committing on reads, and discrediting his own when he has them. That's a conclusion, but I don't see your reasoning, and I can't figure out from your other post how you've reached them. Be clear here. Why do you hate yamato's reasoning for voting Mr.Z?. Do you hate the reasoning itself - not showing interest in who gets lynched - or how he ignores comments and remarks on mr.Z's meta?
I'll respond to this in a few
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On January 06 2013 18:49 yamato77 wrote:Is the only reason you want to lynch him is that he's useless? That's the only thing his meta might excuse but I think there are other parts of his play that are scummy. As I've mentioned before he's advocated the idea that we should be deciding on a lynch by now, which is in opposition to the town-favored idea Hapa put forth that we should allow more time for ourselves so that we don't end up mislynching. Indeed so far that has been good, because we haven't done anything rash or stupid just because we felt we had to decide on someone to kill. Show nested quote +On January 04 2013 09:37 MrZentor wrote:
Also, dragging days out will lead to decreased interest in the game by town, increasing inactivity, and generally making things easier for scum.
Days should be 48-72 hours. He's expressed this sentiment multiple times since this initial post in the form of troll votes and acts of impatience. He's pushing town toward making a bad decision which is something I do not think we should be doing. 1.) Only scum would want to advocate this idea.Show nested quote +On January 05 2013 07:21 MrZentor wrote:
I will use my hammer vote as soon as I possibly can.
It's unlikely that scum will want to have the final vote on somebody, because it will put them under a lot of scrutiny. This post here he looks like he's setting himself up for making the hammer vote on a player, and then calling himself town for doing it. 2.)And again he's advocating the idea that quick hammer lynches are a good thing when they only benefit scum.Show nested quote +On January 06 2013 11:23 MrZentor wrote:
There's too little information to make an accurate lynch first day; we're just wasting time by delaying it. 3.)Here he bemoans day 1 as useless and says we should lynch someone. He doesn't have any good ideas of who to lynch, nor has he helped make day 1 more useful, he just wants to kill someone. Apathy about who is lynched is a scummy trait. So basically instead of being pro-town and scum hunting, or even offering up a scum read, he's given town reads on people and told us all to lynch someone quickly. 4.) He's playing anti town.
Okay so Z-BosoN wanted me to explain why I didn't like Yamato's reasoning for voting Mr. Z.
Yamato gives 3 reasons we should lynch Mr. Z, and I can't agree with any of them.
1.) Only scum would advocate the idea of an artificial deadline? I really cannot agree with that. Hell, I said we should wrap things up at the 72 hour mark. Attacking Mr. Z for it is a super easy thing to do because its *cough* "not in towns interest", but in reality it's not a scummy thing to suggest at all especially for day 1.
2.) Quick hammer lynches do benefit scum, yes, if the guy flips town. If Mr. Z wants to quick hammer vote that's his choice, and he should know he could be lynched for it. It's kind of just an opinion thing, not really something that's a scummy idea.
3.) Pretty much the same point as number 1: Mr.Z doesn't want to spend a week on day 1. I don't think Mr. Z is just saying "let's lynch anybody, who cares!" but rather "let's not dwell on it for too long, make your best educated guess". Too much time = second guessing ourselves = confusion = scum environment. At least that's what I get out of it.
4.) Mr. Z is playing anti-town by refusing to scumhunt and being generally inactive. And I would agree on this at the time of Yamato's post. Since this post, he's presented at least (at little) evidence of who he wants to lynch and why.
Didn't really care for Yamato's arguements because they could be from either alignment and focus on Mr. Z's lack of confidence in D1. It seems like a really easy case to make. Either way, I just didn't see it as a strong case.
Also, Xatalos took my bait. I told him to vote me cus I was totes scummy:
On January 07 2013 05:43 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:
@Xatalos
Obviously nobody likes your vote on Yamato. I'm pretty scummy right now - just look at the horrible stream of consciousness post. You've had it in for me all game. You totes want to lynch me right now. Jay does too, and Hapa thinks I'm totes a scumster. Maybe I could die today.
So he does it: LOL
On January 07 2013 06:55 Xatalos wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2013 06:17 Hapahauli wrote:On January 07 2013 06:14 Xatalos wrote:On January 07 2013 06:02 Hapahauli wrote:
@ Xatalos
You mentioned that your vote would end up on yamato, Shaio, or CC today. A process of elimination read on yamato makes absolutely no sense when you have other potential lynch candidates. What are your current thoughts on Shaio and CC? Mr. Cheesecake: he's had good engagement with the thread lately, but he hasn't actually done much. Much of his posting is just fluff or nearly fluff, like the stream of thought post for example. It doesn't feel like he wants to really affect the thread, more like comment on things of his choosing and follow along... It could very well be Mafia. I'm definitely pro-lynch on him. ShiaoPi: still concerned about his fake pressure, OMGUS vote on me, relative lack of contribution etc. I can easily see his filter from a Mafia perspective, unlike several other players (Hapahauli, MrZentor, jaybrundage). It all comes down to what's realistic. It's starting to look like ShiaoPi is not, Mr. Cheesecake and yamato77 may well be. So I'm not pushing for ShiaoPi to be lynched right now. I need less general statements and more specific analysis. Lynching based on realism = not good. Who is your top scumread based on behaviour alone and why? Let's pretend for a minute that everyone, is up on the block, and you control who the town is going to lynch. Who are you going to lynch? If I had absolute power over the thread, I would lynch Mr. Cheesecake right now. Between his fluffy and passive opening game, constant lack of taking real stances and his recent weird and fluffy posts, he isn't much of a contributor or even a presence in the flow of the thread. Even considering his relatively good activity and engagement in several topics. I have to leave now for a quite lenghty period of time, so I'm torn about what to do. I guess I'll just have to leave it up to fate and hope I'm not lynched when I get back. ##Unvote yamato77
##Vote Mr. Cheesecake
Okay so let me be clear about this: Xatalos wants to lynch Yamato because he's scummy, scummier than I at least. He previously states that he doesn't want to lynch me and that I've been a decent contributor as of late and I've stepped up from my original lurky play. He says I've got some townish posts. (Just look through his filter for it, it's kind of spread out in there). Why the sudden disinterest in Yamato? Hmmmmmm?
Nobody wants to sheep the Yamato vote, but Hapa expresses his distaste in me, and suddenly VOTE CHEESECAKE.
He doesn't care who is lynched. Me or Yamato would do, he's just looking for whoever he can get peoples votes on.
##Vote: Xatalos
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On January 07 2013 08:19 jaybrundage wrote:
Ok can we lynch cc now
Yeah he seems scummy imo
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I'm just concerned why Yamato shows up randomly and hammers... and then Jay's like can we lynch cc now lol
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On January 07 2013 08:25 jaybrundage wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2013 08:21 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:
I'm just concerned why Yamato shows up randomly and hammers... and then Jay's like can we lynch cc now lol Because im pretty confident your scum.
Tell me why - besides my "lack of cases"
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DP didn't you think I was town and stuff?
Also, how did you suddenly think Xatalos was town?
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On January 07 2013 09:06 DarthPunk wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2013 08:55 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:
DP didn't you think I was town and stuff?
Also, how did you suddenly think Xatalos was town? Yeah I did think you were town. But your posts ever since that stream of conciousness post changed my mind. I thought Xatalos was town because many, many times it was stated in the thread exactly why people thought he was scummy. And what did he do? he continued to do those exact things in the pursuit of other players. I.E. He didn't give a fuck about looking scummy, which is not something I would expect newbie scum to pull. He also changed his mind a lot even though he knew it would get him in trouble. after CASES were being made about that very thing he continued to do it. Didn't care about being scummy. = Town Didn't alter his play when it was obviously getting him into shit = Town Continued to pursue his reads with the whole thread calling him out for them = Town So yeah. By the end I think it was fairly obvious that Xatalos was town. I don't really blame people for voting for him. I just wish I had gotten up in time to change things.
What posts are it? How did they change your mind? You were pretty sure I was town. You were also pretty sure Xatalos was scummy, and did nothing to prevent his lynch. In fact, you just told them both to fight. Now you come in here right after he's lynched, conveniently, and 180 your read on both of us?
Seems a bit odd.
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Oh hey there Hapa. I've got a few mins to chat, what's up?
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On January 08 2013 04:31 Hapahauli wrote:
In school right now - interested to hear a reply to dp's case, as well as scumreads
In terms of DP's case.. It's alright. He's wrong, but I'm pretty scummy and much of the argument does hold water. However, I'm fairly disinterested with the pressure on me right now. I don't think I'll be lynched tomorrow, and I won't sit here and waste time deflecting every point brought against me. We can all settle on the fact that I'm super scummy right now, and that's fine with me.
Yamato concerns me right now.
There was his voting behavior early game and his Mr. Z case, but I won't restate all of it. I want to hear his reasoning behind his hammer vote.
Here is his second to last post:
On January 07 2013 06:16 yamato77 wrote:
I'll be back later.
Don't lynch someone until I get back.
"Alright guys, I care about who is lynch, so don't lynch nobody until I get back and we can make a rational decision"
And then he comes back to hours later right at the time Xatalos has 4 votes.
On January 07 2013 08:11 yamato77 wrote:
It seems like other people are seeing what I saw in Xatalos with his case in Shiao and vote on CC.
The dude doesn't really care where he votes, he gives weak justifications and has continually changed his reads over the course of the game on a moment's notice to fit his agenda.
It's enough for me to see him hang.
##Vote: Xatalos
What part of this mirrors his previous post? I don't understand his rational in hammering so quickly. Supposedly, he wants to take things slow, so people don't make the wrong decision. But he doesn't even consult the thread before he comes back in and hammers. Yes, he had a scumread on Xatalos. Cool. But -- what was the purpose in hammering so quickly?
Yamato, you've been a fairly inactive force in this thread. I want you to talk -- now.
Trying to wrap my head around Jay / SP right now. Will get back in a while.
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On January 08 2013 05:04 Hapahauli wrote:Show nested quote +On January 08 2013 04:59 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:On January 08 2013 04:31 Hapahauli wrote:
In school right now - interested to hear a reply to dp's case, as well as scumreads In terms of DP's case.. It's alright. He's wrong, but I'm pretty scummy and much of the argument does hold water. However, I'm fairly disinterested with the pressure on me right now. I don't think I'll be lynched tomorrow, and I won't sit here and waste time deflecting every point brought against me. We can all settle on the fact that I'm super scummy right now, and that's fine with me. I would like you to be concerned, because I'm interested in hearing you defend what looks like a reasonable case against you.
His main point is that I just "heap shit on weak players". I don't know how you'd like me to defend that, because it's true. Some people need shit heaped on them to start doing stuff. Most of it is based on my shitty stream post, which, as all indicates, heaps shit on players. I heap some shit here and there, it's all fine. I want answers. And if you have to dig your way out that's perfectly fine with me.
The thread has been pathetically inactive for how long the game has been going. If I have to make myself seem scummy to generate some sort of response, well here we have it.
Problem is, I haven't heard from players that are really concerning like SP or Yamato.
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On January 08 2013 05:23 Hapahauli wrote:
Making yourself look scummy to elicit a response is not good town play. Are you suggesting you've been posting with this hidden intention?
Also, you can generate discussion without looking bad.
Lol it's not a hidden intention. But apparently it's a side effect that was somehow generated one way or the other.
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ShiaoPi is a chronic defender. He spends more time defending / justifying himself than he does actually being useful.
+ Show Spoiler +On January 04 2013 12:06 ShiaoPi wrote:
Well I am trying not to be lurky, but sometimes shit does come up, so I cannot gurantee being much more active than usually.
@MrZentor:
I agree on your point of just having general guidelines instead of a limit by which the vote must happen. While we should use the additional time we have, I don't like setting up something definite, it just gives scum an easier way to move in a set frame. On January 05 2013 14:07 ShiaoPi wrote:
@Jay:
I am doing a pressure vote on Rise since his last post seemed to me as if he would just be gone for a couple of hours before popping back into the thread, as he has not done so, I believe myself justified well enough, since I have questions for him that I want answered.
I think you got ninja'ed by me during writing your post. I did give out a stancee on his posting. I also fail to see how I have tried to lie low in this game....
Your case seems really weak to me.
/shrug On January 05 2013 14:28 ShiaoPi wrote:
@Jay:
I said that the exchange they had read kind of townish. But that I disliked DP's reluctance to vote. Xatalos is null just as easy as that.
Read that post again please.
I clearly said that DP is the weaker read of the two and that his behaviour does not add up. My thoughtprocess is right in that post.
With all that is happening in thread right now I am tending towards lynching DP, but I would really hear more from Rise and yamato On January 06 2013 17:15 ShiaoPi wrote:
Xatalos:
I said earlier that Xatalos is a lynchbait.
-snip-
On January 06 2013 17:25 ShiaoPi wrote:
I do scumhunt, just because I am not writing a case on anything that moves does not mean I am not doing it...
Boson is pretty much town in my eyes, no reason to share his spreadsheet with his thoughts lined out with us if he were scum. Also he has directly started to scumhunt as soon as he replaced in, gets lots of towniepoints from me.
CC is someone I don't want to lynch today, you may think him scummy for not making a shitton of cases but that is just a difference in playstyle imo. Looking through his filter he is actively trying to get more information out of people by asking questions promoting discussing. What I dislike is parking his vote on MrZ but that is nothing to be honest.
On January 06 2013 19:11 ShiaoPi wrote:
@yamato:
While I like you doing more analysis, there is some stuff I do not agree with. Especially the first post you quoted with the guidelines on time. Hapa actually wanted a self-imposed deadline of 72h, which is something I did not agree to. So taking that quote from Zentor out of context makes it seem as it were all the time pushing for lynching somebody to end it the day. That is simply wrong. I can also sympathise with his sentiment that we really should start consolidating on someone by now. A much longer day 1 has negative effect on us imo.
You are right when you say that his play is not necessarily pro-town by now. But I can understand where he comes from to a certain degree, which explains why I said earlier that I am torn on all my candidates for today's lynch.
@Xatalos:
Nice that you have popped in, but not only are you dead wrong on me but your case is crap. I expected more than cherrypicking my filter for bits you can build something on.
I cannot even fathom how you critisize me for putting a vote on Rise as pressure when he had done jackshit at that moment.
The next two quotes are an answer to a question I was asked to. I was asked who the other options of mine were, I responded. Don't even see what is wrong with them as if you have studied my filter it is pretty clear why I listed each of them.
Now towards my stances being neutral and weak is stupid as shit. I posted my thoughts on the players I found suspicious at the moment and pressured them when they were around see the entire dialogue between me and yamato just above.
As icing on the cake you take a game from almost half a year back (which was also one of my newbie games) as a "meta-argument". That is a nice example of false usage of meta-arguments. If you want to study my meta at least take the most recent game in which I was town (which is LVII if I recall correctly) and compare it to this game...
This is just terribly bad and feels forced.
##vote: Xatalos On January 06 2013 21:27 ShiaoPi wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2013 20:05 Xatalos wrote:On January 06 2013 19:41 ShiaoPi wrote:On January 06 2013 19:36 Xatalos wrote:On January 06 2013 19:25 ShiaoPi wrote:
I am voting you now because:
-flip flopping on DP in some logical inconsistencies earlier
-not committing at all earlier
-writing a terribly bad case for the sake of writing one to get some pressure off yourself.
call it OMGUS if you want, I don't think so.
Also you have been on my hitlist now, Zentor is not around so I cannot ask him stuff right now, I just asked yamato a bunch of stuff earlier. Leaving you and with that crap contribution you look like the best option for today's lynch When was I under pressure...? I've just been trying find someone scummier than Mr. Cheesecake, but it's not an easy job, considering the relatively low activity and the high amount of townish/nullish players. There are many things in your filter that strike me as suspicious (mentioned earlier), and even though they're partly intuition and not solid proof, it's better than Mr. Cheesecake in my eyes (he started off under the radar but has had some engagement since then). Several people have mentioned you as a possible lynch candidate that qualifies as under pressure. I would really be interested in those "many things" in my filter that are suspicious, I already answered the ones you quoted earlier. Please show them to me, I don't even know where you find them. Anyway I am out for dinner now. See you later. Okay... I guess that counts as pressure, although I haven't been even remotely in a dangerous spot until now. But this always happens to me when I'm town at some point, so I'm not too worried yet. Are you saying you were really pressuring RiseAgain? I just can't see anything but a weak fake pressure in that. Merely voting for someone without any actual pressure doesn't count as pressure. Some other players in this game have thrown away weak votes as well, but at least they tried to create some pressure. You didn't even try - the opposite, you openly said it was only an empty vote beforehand. Why were you suddenly okay with lynching DP when he started to gain a bandwagon for himself? All I can see is an opportunistic (yet extremely vague) move to potentially get rid of an active player. And when the bandwagon started to crumble, you suddenly dropped him from your suspects without saying a word about it. It feels like you're just trying to get someone lynched, and it doesn't really matter who. So I am back. Where did I say I was really pressuring Rise? I clearly said it was to get him to post, since I had questions for him, that I wanted to answer. It is blatantly clear in my filter.
I was not "suddenly" okay with lynching DP, stop misrepresenting facts. Mr.CC asked me who my other possible candidates were. That was after the first episode of DP/Hapa-shitfest but before the entire wagon on him started. I was active during the increasing pressure on DP, being part of it myself, before I had to leave cause of RL matters. How is it opportunistic for me to be one of the persons being there while the pressure added up, when I really thought that he might be red??
The bandwagon started to crumble because DP was doing some really townish posts, thing is I was not in the thread at that time. As soon as I was back und caught up I removed DP from my hitlist as he was much more townie now. I did not want to bloat my post with the DP matter again, when it was not part of the trending discussion in the thread, but I did "say a word" about it....Show nested quote +On January 06 2013 17:15 ShiaoPi wrote:
Okay finally got some time to give out some thoughts.
First off welcome Z-Boson, good to have a active replacement!
Moving on to some housekeeping:
DP's reactions since I was gone seem to me pretty townie, by extension Hapa seems town as well with the entire thoughtprocess behind tunneling being revealed. So I am retracting my scum-leaning read that I had on DP earlier.
-snip- I for sure care who gets lynched, seriously are you even reading this thread? I clearly stated which persons I want to lynch during varying times already.
He seems pretty paranoid and feels the need to defend himself at every juncture. Frequently he references his past posts to justify his actions and explain them. Take a look at his vote for Xatalos, for example. He basically just calls him bad, defends himself hardcore, and then votes.
The symptoms of a guilty conscience, perhaps?
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@DP
I get that you think I'm scum and all, but curious, who is your second scum read besides me? Who is my potential scumbuddy?
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And what happens when i flip town, darth?
Expected response: you won't
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Let's just think about why you guys believe I'm scummy: Because I'm open about all of my reads and call people out on shit. I'm taking stances and trying to read people. Scummy? Perhaps in the way I was going about it. Does it mean I'm scum? No. And you really should consider that before you all suddenly vote me tomorrow. Scum will definitely want to push this lynch. At least give a suitable amount of discussion time; the day better not end super friggen quickly with my town flip.
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EPT
