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On January 04 2013 22:05 Spaghetticus wrote:
#Vote: TeMiL
I'm still reading and writing, but upon reading the vote update I thought it best to give my vote. This vote is a pressure vote but is not to be taken lightly. My vote shall rest on you TeMiL until you give more content than the next lurkiest player. State your scum reads (not your town reads). Make arguments. Put pressure on someone. If you are town do not go survival mode. Do what you think is best for town regardless of what you think will help you survive day one, this is both better for town and better for your survival, whether you realise it or not.
This vote is conditional but deadly serious. Contribute.
No such thing as official pressure vote. A vote is the intention to lynch. Treat it that way. (at least publically)
+ Show Spoiler +For Spag + Show Spoiler +
I was debating whether to PM you, or deal with this publically.
Game rules say no PM, so unfortunately I am going to discuss this here (albeit briefly).
I know the intentions, we have discussed this in great deal before the game started.
BUT.. a vote needs to be treated with respect. You allude to that at the end.. but.. contradict yourself at the start, by saying its a pressure vote. Mixed messages don't lead to a clear impression.
I suggest you to re-read the Newbie 33 obs qt, specifically Marvellosity.
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On January 04 2013 22:41 TeMiL wrote:+ Show Spoiler +answering mocsta questions: + Show Spoiler +(1) So far your post count reads as useless fluff. Why should I not vote for you?
am a really newbie in this game, i you check others mafia games you wouldnt find me anywhere. if i get voted maybe i can loose any interest of this game but in the other case i will learn more and be more active.
(2) "growing in my role" What does this mean? (I understand English is not your first language)
i mean i can learn what to do and be a better player each day. right now am like a little boy in his first class, i want to learn a lot but is difficult to be attached every hour. ill try to change that. answering others post + Show Spoiler +On January 04 2013 14:24 StriX wrote:
2. Feel like we're going a bit easy on TeMiL and I'd like to vote to lynch him right now. I delayed my vote due to suspecting lurking was due to timezone issues, however, I feel like we've given him long enough to contribute. He is also the only one to not respond to Mocsta's first set of questions.
As an idea Mocsta could you may
##Vote TeMil
i answer both rounds of questions and ive just finished the third. my 2 post where those questions and i couldnt write more because i went back home, forgot my celphone with internet connection and couldnt write any post until now. well ill hope u can change your mind. On January 04 2013 14:44 OmniEulogy wrote:
@StriX if you think that qualifies you as a contributor in any discussion to this point I apologize. How about you update us with your thoughts. Right now in terms of contribution imo from the bottom up its Temil - Strix/Jampi - everybody else. ill change your thoughts about me... can i? On January 04 2013 15:26 cDgCorazon wrote:
In all honesty, I think voting TeMiL right now is a pretty useless move. I think a FoS (Finger of Suspicion) towards TeMiL can be more helpful than just voting TeMiL and being done with the analysis. Voting someone that is lurking this early in the game is really just being lazy, and does not help out town at all.
. thanks :D actually i didnt lurker at all if u consider lurker a gamer that only entered 3 times. right now am reading everything and with my phone back ill be writing every minute  On January 04 2013 21:12 StriX wrote:
TeMiL is currently the undisputedly biggest lurker.
until today . like i said i will practicing my english a lot! give an opportunity thats all On January 04 2013 21:59 StriX wrote:
##unvote TeMiL this was unespected, looks like cDgCorazon makes you change your vote? On January 04 2013 22:05 Spaghetticus wrote:
#Vote: TeMiL
This vote is conditional but deadly serious. Contribute. ill contribute :D this is all right now.
OMG... Before I played Newbie 33.. I read through Newbie 32... there was this guy.. AxelGreaser... you have just given me back nightmares of him.. Luckily Yamato isnt playing, he would probably delete his team liquid account.
In all seriousness, you have made my life easier today.
I was about to start reading through filters, consolidating my thought process, to make a case as promised to cDgCorazon and Sylencia.
But... your post, has made me throw that out the window
##Vote: TeMiL
(1) You have had the lowest post contribution in 30hrs of play. No excuses
(2) All your posts are fluff, and then your riposte to accusations of fluff, is simply fluffx2 with a 
Does this make you mafia?
- NO, it does guarantee you are mafia.
Does this make you absolutely useless and unreliable town?
- YES, this is guaranteed.
Town,
I am voting TeMiL, because, his actions have proven to be useless and unreliable.
(Yes, I use proven to a person with a 1 page filter, that is how strongly I feel)
I ask you this... if we were down to 3 candidates, YOU (Town), X (Scum) and TeMiL... can you trust TeMiL to vote for X?
I already know from his last post, the answer is no, I cant rely on his innocence as town, I can't rely on his skill to scum hunt, and I certainly can not rely on his ability to establish a vote.
but... lets take a look at the flip side and counter my argument.
(1) Do we care if we can rely on him, we are not down to 3 candidates?
(2) Do you not have a better scum read you can target (instead of lurker bait), as you advocate others to do?
Well..
(1) Agreed, but there has been no stand out lynch candidate thus far. Thus, for Day1 it is highly likely TeMiL might be the hammer vote to send someone home... someone who could be Town.. Are you confident enough on YOUR scum read to risk this happening?
(2) Agreed, I had a better scum read prior to TeMiL posting, I was just about to read the filter. BUT, the risks to me from (1) are too extreme. We have limited players, 7 townies, every player counts. If TeMiL hammered a townie home, and then a townie is dropped off from Night Kill, Day 2 starts with 2 mafia and 5 townies; which is going to signficantly reduce town odds.
I am looking at the big picture here, and lynching a ?possible town? TeMiL to me is less risk long term than lynching my scum read, who may also be a town flip.
Are you confident enough on YOUR scum read to risk this happening?
P.S.
Just refreshed to see if anything new before posted, and saw this beauty.
Case in Point.
or as I have always wanted to say since doing Trigonometry in high school.
Q.E.D
+ Show Spoiler +On January 04 2013 23:14 TeMiL wrote:Show nested quote +On January 04 2013 22:49 zarepath wrote:
TeMiL, what do you think about my earlier analysis of Sylencia? u have something agains australians or isjust causality to target him? looks like you now how to analyse a gamer. its a good brief of course and thanks to made me read it again.
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On January 04 2013 23:20 Spaghetticus wrote:
I do not vote without intent to lynch.
Good we on the same page. I think this is Off-Topic enough it can be handled in PM.
i.e. if you want to continue this theroy-crafting, PM me. (and while your at it, let me know what you thought of the compendium, was it a waste of time? Took me forever to do that on a whim)
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I am going to bed.
I was willing to hear other peoples cases on other participants until TeMiL just posted his connection theory.
I am 100% sure he is town, but hes just too useless. My vote is sticking on him.
Good night, I won't be around for the lynch deadline, best of luck to all.
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Post Count Summary
Intent:
To identify participants ""flying under the radar"" and not actively contributing.
The intent is not to provide a quality check on posts
That onus falls upon all of town individually.
Session 3
From: 04-Jan: 0930
To: 04-Jan: 2130
+ Show Spoiler +- cDgCorazon: 20
(8 in session)
- Sylencia: 22
(4 in session)
- OmniEulogy: 18
(10 in session)
- Spaghetticus: 27
(0 in session)
- Mocsta: 28
(11 in session)
- zarepath: 15
(3 in session)
- TeMil: 6
(0 in session)
- jampidampi: 8
(0 in session)
- StriX: 19
(6 in session)
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On January 05 2013 05:04 cDgCorazon wrote:Show nested quote +On January 05 2013 04:39 zarepath wrote:On January 05 2013 04:33 OmniEulogy wrote:
Also spag I only read your last post as writing this and I have no idea what you are talking about. I think you have this made up illusion that I have something against you because of NMM XXXIII. Get over it. You are trying to get people to think that we can't agree on anything and that our opinions will always be different. As I know I am town, I can only see it as a move to try to divide townies and get us to lose faith in each other, please stop or I'll assume its scum motivated instead of you dwelling too much on the past. That doesn't sound like a townie defense to me. Please be less emotional, and there's no need to go out of your way to say "As I know I am town." I look forward to reading your longer post soon, grateful you're not voting for me, and am working on a long post of my own. I love how you decide to push OE right after he decides to back off of you. Interesting.
I have posted this in haste. as in, i read it and felt compelled to reply.
cDgCorazon.. i have no idea what vote trends are on page 20 yet, but seriously, you seem to have an axe to grind with zarepath.
There is nothing wrong with what zarepath posted, I read OE reply oddly as well.
If you can't see that, perhaps you are the one not scum hunting.
[HR]
as an aside, how can you even say i voted for temil out of laziness.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=389091¤tpage=17#335 (more so than anyone else putting down a vote.. i made an arguemnt, and even argued against it, still coming to the same conclusion...)
I placed proper justification, you obviously didnt read the thread (this is starting to become a regular occurance- should I be concerned about you?)
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Actually.. now that I have read the thread in its entirety.
My vote is changing; but its not to one of the usual suspects.
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On January 05 2013 08:00 cDgCorazon wrote:
The difference between voting for TeMiL and voting for a no-lynch right now is that if we keep TeMiL around, we still have a vote, and we can stave off a possible lylo later by one day. Is that advantage that irrelevant to throw away? I don't think so.
Fair point.
I am changing my vote for 3 reasons.
(1) I was worried about TeMiL getting modkilled anyway
(2) My top scum read interacted in what I deemed a meaningful way overnight
(3) Coach feedback as well..
I am stuck though for the following reasons.
(1) There was a significant lack of discussion last night so I am not confident there are enough *hawkers* online to do a bandwagon
(2) I dont want to build association cases, but I have a read on 2 players, and they happened to interact overnight subtley. My prime target is not a suspect, whereas the association who i would rather not target, is a suspect for others. I do not know which has a higher chance of people agreeing with me.
&
(3)
Spag.. hes really making life hard for me. If I wasnt so set on my top scum read, I would love to push Spag regardless (like TeMiL).. his contributions are full of white-knighting, full of contradictions, full of copy/paste jobs.
I know he wants to be the medic to my marine [not a soft claim.. its a joke to spag from newbie 33], but his behaviour is pinging my scum radar A Lot.. Essentially to me his actions have a town explanation, but how he goes about it, is to me, quite scummy.
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##vote: OmniEulogy
Omni, my vote is going to you. I only have 50min left before I have to go, and I will not be available for the lynch deadline.
Because I can't be here, I am not going to make a huge case, I am going to point out what I think are anomalies in your play. If town agrees, they can share their vote with me. If you dispute them successfully, my vote will be the only one that remains, and you will not be lynched.
I hope that makes up for my lack of presence. Apologies, I was not even meant to online at this time in the first place.
Omni has approximately 30 posts. I have chosen to pass through 9 key posts. Maybe some in general read null. But if you take all the 9 posts as a sum of contributions.. the result is zilch. Its all fluff revolving around policy, and copy/paste <insert participant post>.
This screams of scum play to me, and if you are not voting Omni, you better have a damn good reason not to.
I am just going to do a quick analysis of your significant filter posts.
+ Show Spoiler +On January 03 2013 10:37 OmniEulogy wrote:Whoa didn't expect it to start tonight. I'm extremely tired guys and I was about to go to sleep till I saw the PM. I'll catch up tomorrow when I wake up x.x Quickly though - for those of you who played with me last game my views stay the same for Policy lynches. We shouldn't lynch the lurkers D1 just because they aren't active, we need to actively scum hunt and push our top scum reads. I WILL lynch liars though. Townies don't need to lie in this game. That's all I've got to say about that I'm looking forward to this getting going!
(1)
Policy talk from all is typically meaningless fluff at the start. You say you will actively scum hunt.. but what have you contributed actively? A vote on zarepath.. because he votes no-lynch early game. that is not active scum hunting. That is prejudice. I can vote 100 people between now and deadline. its the vote at deadline that matters.
First sign you need to step up your game.. the question is whether town or scum motivation.
To me, I take this 50/50. So null read.
+ Show Spoiler +On January 04 2013 03:18 OmniEulogy wrote:
So a bit late but I'm (GMT-5:00) Eastern Time. I went to bed much earlier than normal though as I'd been up for almost 48 hours.
First things first. Spag has already said he's changing his style from his last game because it got him lynched D1. He's also right that I bandwagoned last game instead of sticking on Cora who was my strongest scum read D1 and ended up getting him lynched. I'm going to try and avoid that kind of play this game.
Spag your questions and calling them laziness doesn't really fly considering how you played last game however I don't really see it as being scummy. Your posts seem good so far and I agree we should try to pressure lurkers but just like XXXIII I don't think we should lynch a lurker D1 unless there is absolutely no other option.
That being said ##FoS: Zerepath The no-lynch is a scummy trait. As this is one of your first games on TL I'm not reading too far into it but it is not a townie mind set at all. You make a good reason for having a no-lynch but again... that is NOT a townie mindset. It's a reason for scum to slip through us and kill somebody N1 while knowing they only have to play it safe and just have to vote no-lynch or join the only wagon. Very hard to find scum like that.
@Mocsta I think Spag seems slightly more suspicious based on his change of play styles but we all knew he would be doing it so I'm trying not to judge him based on that. What I find more incriminating on him so far is that he says he is lazy when he was very active and making larger posts D1 with no mention (I believe) of being lazy.
I think your play looks almost identical to your town play last game Mocsta so I'll give you a weak town read for the moment. The only difference is that Aqua is not here this game so you had to vote yourself, I believe this is also not a move scum would make so early into the game so you've cleared yourself of my suspicion unless you make some posts that make me seriously ask myself WTF.
@Sylencia the chances of lynching scum D1 are indeed very low and I believe that is what Spag was saying. The fact that we almost had one last game should be forgotten because if we DO lynch Scum D1 it means they screwed up and the amount of information we would get would be MASSIVE.
example: if we lynched Cora D1 last game we would have had FC lined up and ready for D2. 2/3 scum gone in 2 days.
While I hope something like this happens we need to scum hunt to get it done.
@Zarepath I'd like to know your thoughts behind how I explained a no-lynch to hurt town and what you think of Mocsta's aggressive behavior so far in the game in leading discussions.
(2)
This post is complete fluff. You have a prejudice justification for FoS (zarepath).. the rest is some fluff about policy and other players.
Do you remember easy things for scum to do are talking about policy and voting for policy reasons.
Yes I voted for a lurker (TeMiL) but my justification was not "he is a lurker" I gave rationale... Omni is simply "your stance differs to mine, here is a "FoS"... sounds like someone who doesnt care who his vote goes to... wait a sec, thats a mafia motivation.
Your post is pinging my radar Omni, you have been upgraded to FoS
+ Show Spoiler +On January 04 2013 12:32 OmniEulogy wrote:
Talkative bunch.
Alright...
Vote: Zarepath you left us with a nice case on syl, I don't agree with most of it but it was a decent case and he responded to it very well. However you left right after ruining the chance of any immediate conversation that might have stemmed from it. Your position on a no-lynch is a factor in my vote as well, it just isn't a town mindset. Also claiming that a no-lynch vote is not even at play any more is a bad attempt to bury something that is very much a factor in how D1 plays out. Again not a town mindset.
You attack Sylencia largely on ideas that promote strong town behavior like his willingness to lynch lurkers in certain situations but otherwise always going for his scum reads. Almost everything you said about him applies to yourself in terms of posting, in which he is ahead in terms of quality and quantity.
##FoS: Strix lack of everything from you so far. You are a close second to Zare.
@Everybody What do you think about the case made against Syl? How do you feel about Mocsta leading discussion and his vote on Cora? How do you feel Cora responded to the vote. How has he given himself any credibility as town afterwards. (Cora please feel free to answer this one as well)
And lastly in answer to asking if making a contributions list if town vs scum it could be either. We had Shz in NMM XXXIII attempt a similar thing as VT and I've watched mafia players pretend to contribute by doing the same thing in other games. The point to be made aware of is that Mocsta has also lead discussions and is not ONLY making those posts.
(3)
Your vote starts off as a disagreement of zarepath case to Sylencia. You then change gears and bring the justification back to policy. Sounds to me, your deadset on a bullshit reason to lynch this guy. i.e. policy dispute...
The question is, are you that prejudice against LAL policy, you would pursue that as your top scum read... OR... do you vote for the policy because of your prejudice, which allows you to vote with conviction.. an important trait as mafia.
I find it further curious that you make a vote, and then post a FoS.. Lets say you believe it, you know from Newbie 33 lessons learned, not to make association cases.
I think this is a nice attempt to follow/start a bandwagon on StriX, and give your self a lurker bait out with StriX.. in reality at that point in time it could have been Strix, TeMiL, jampidampi; I think you randomly chose StriX.
Lastly, why do you care if Cora has given himself town credibility. Typically it is scum who value their image to town.
If I look at the 3 paragraphs separately I have 50/50 reads. But the sum of their parts (i.e. the flow overall) to me is scum motivation, not town. You are still pinging my scum radar Omni.
+ Show Spoiler +On January 04 2013 14:09 OmniEulogy wrote:
At this point I'd consider voting for Strix followed by Jampi and then TeMiL in that order. I know Temil said something about work hours but I'd really like to see his thoughts on current matters before even considering to vote for him. Strix does vaguely give off that "Threesr" feeling but not even half as bad as the real thing. He's my #2 at the moment.
I think we can cut down on the possibilities a bit more before anybody really needs to throw out a vote if they don't think they have a read at all.
(4)
Interesting, you follow up your FoS, by calling out StriX, but take no action? You then put forward 2 other lurkers. How is this active scum hunting? All you do is propose a name, but is that not an easy thing anyone can contribute?
Omni again needs to step up his game. If i read this post independently it is a null read. Combined with points (1), (2),(3) I can see scum motivation.
+ Show Spoiler +On January 04 2013 14:26 OmniEulogy wrote:
@Syl nope it's not directed to you.
@Zare fair enough I know it happens. I also agree that the mafia would rather have us lynch ourselves and get an even larger advantage. It happens in most games D1 but they also tend to be the ones who say a no-lynch is fine with them early on. Ignoring that aspect of why I voted for you though because as you say its hypothetical and you did make a case on somebody else I'm going to keep my vote on you for the time being.
(5)
Again, more theory-craft work. What targets are you actively pressuring, and how are you aiding the scum hunt.
At his point, 5 key posts and claiming you wanted to actively scum hunt..what have you contributed OmniEulogy.
- Talk about Policy
- Talk about policy
- and more talk about policy.
Once again, all the easy things for scum to do. I think out of all the players, you are the one that has persisted with policy talk the most. Spag has mentioned his LAL attitude; but has not been as aggressive in implementing it as you have.
In essence, a fluff post (once again).
+ Show Spoiler +On January 04 2013 14:37 OmniEulogy wrote:
I'm not ignoring your contribution at all. Sylencia's defense was enough for me to keep him off my scum list for now that's all.
You can make a case like that and it doesn't really put you into the spotlight at all. If we all voted for him and he flipped town THEN it would. But you yourself didn't even vote for him.
How is not even voting for somebody and just calling everything they have done scummy dangerous for you in any way? It's a good way to start conversation on a target, and you got him to answer but it's not putting yourself out there in any way.
(6)
Ahh justification for calling out 3 lurkers.. It starts conversation.. I ask how.. All you do is say, Hi you are lurking.. There is no questions to them. There is no vote on them. There is in essence... NO CONTRIBUTION.
Your posts are at this stage consistently Fluff. Please tell me I am tunneling here because its getting painful to read these posts, I have to rack my brain to think why a townie would post all this garbage?
You may have a half-decent post count, but we have to extend the quality bar for you to a new scale that contains negative values...
This is the point I went to bed. With all your "contributions - if i may" I had you as my top scum read (due to actively trying to participate, but not actually participating. I was going to put the pressure on you Night 1, but after your overnight posts, I have upgraded you as a higher priority than TeMiL.
+ Show Spoiler +On January 05 2013 04:33 OmniEulogy wrote:
##Unvote: Zarepath given the three/four pages I need to catch up in and what I have read so far I don't believe my vote should still rest on Zare for this lynch. I think he has now contributed more than several others and it would be worse for town to lose him at this moment. I think TeMiL is just really bad town so I wont be voting for him either. I'll have a longer post written up shortly.
Also spag I only read your last post as writing this and I have no idea what you are talking about. I think you have this made up illusion that I have something against you because of NMM XXXIII. Get over it. You are trying to get people to think that we can't agree on anything and that our opinions will always be different. As I know I am town, I can only see it as a move to try to divide townies and get us to lose faith in each other, please stop or I'll assume its scum motivated instead of you dwelling too much on the past.
(7)
Interesting. The justification is quite weak to remove the vote.. He has contributed? big whoop, this is a piss poor attempt to move onto another target. You are admitting here your actual vote justification was weak, or even just sheeping. Again, how does that help town win?
You never post your write-up either... I am on the thread 3-4hrs later, and its not there, what we get is a summary.
Your comments to Spag are interesting as well. Overly defensive. What struck me as odd is
"As I know I am town, I can only see it as a move to try and divide townies..... please stop or I'll assume scum motivation"
Very odd phrasing in general.
Too many town references, is just plain over compensating.. obviously being scum..
You then try to re-enforce your town, by assuming he could be playing a scum game..
I also think in general you are over-reacting to Spags filter.. its no where near as relevant as you are making it out to be.
Screams of trying to make contributions again... without actually contributing.
This post is not helping your cause.. still the top scum read.
+ Show Spoiler +On January 05 2013 05:46 OmniEulogy wrote:Alright, I'm not sure if I can get the whole thing out in under an hour so I'm going to make a summary for you Jampi so we can talk about it a bit while I continue to write up the bigger one. I'll start with the people I don't think we should vote for in this lynch. I believe Mocsta and Spag should be free of suspicion for this lynch entirely. TeMiL and StriX I believe we should wait until D2 TeMiL I think is just bad town and I don't think a vote on him is the BEST we could do. StriX says he makes long analytical posts. I'm waiting to see one. He hasn't delivered in 48 hours and I am most likely going to put my vote on him. I believe Syl is in the middle ground and responded to the case made against him really well. I have a very slight town read on Jampi. I most likely will not be voting on him unless something drastically changes. Cora hasn't called himself scum twice yet so thats a plus he's actually been playing in my mind what a town cora would be. Please ask any questions I'm doing a larger write up right now.
(8)
The summary post. Classic scum trait. Easy to do, and looks like contribution. Is there any new thought in there?
If you read it.. there is no original content in the post. Its simply a rehash of thoughts throughout the thread.
Why are you trying to pass this off as a meaningful contribution?
Curiously you throw in Jampi as a slight town read.. you have had minimal interactions with this person, and he is the prime target for several others in the thread.. and in genearl his post count is lacking... I would love a detailed explanation on this one.
Are there town motivations for this post? In theory, it sounds helpful.. my problem is, its ultimately fluff, there is no new contributions, which appears to be a constant OmniEulogy theme.
All of this SCREAMS scum to me.
+ Show Spoiler +[QUOTE] On January 05 2013 07:06 OmniEulogy wrote:My case on StriX. Why he is my top scum read. Syl gave him a very nice resume as Mocsta called it and made me look forward to what he would bring to the table to help us with his insight. However I have not seen any of it in nearly 48 hours. Perhaps a town StriX would make large posts and push strong scum reads however that is not what we have seen at all. He plays a newbie card early on and on top of that votes for TeMiL and feels that after making that his only useful(?) post he should not be grouped together with him as a lurker. + Show Spoiler +StriX Australia. January 04 2013 14:40. Posts 31 PM Profile Report Quote #
filter
@OmniEulogy
by the way - if you reread I was the first to call out zarepath on his no-lynch so it's amusing to me that you use it as an argument then call me out for contributing nothing.
@cDGCorazon
I shouldn't be grouped with TeMil. If mentioning no-lynch is a massive contribution I must be severely missing something about this game. Especially after Syl brought up all the insight you bring to the game. He follows up when asked why he doesn't pursue Zare with this + Show Spoiler +On January 04 2013 15:27 StriX wrote:Show nested quote +Why have you backed off zarepath? I want to know rationale, you should have this case-at-hand if you are analytically minded as Sylencia stated. Seems to defeat the purpose - Much easier to wait for a mistake then tell someone your watching them and expect one. Not to mention you could create one self fulfilling prophecy style. Basically, he wants to lurk and watch his target without forcing his scum read to actually answer any questions... thus giving him no new information. This is not a town way of scum hunting. It is scum pretending to hunt scum while allowing himself to continue to lurk. He also admits that Mocsta has fed him the names for his top scum reads at that point in time. No real searching involved. We then have his take on Zare's case vs Syl and how to support/promote town play + Show Spoiler +[QUOTE]On January 04 2013 21:19 StriX wrote:
oops forgot this bit
On January 03 2013 22:47 StriX wrote:
(2) [Mocsta] thus, how do you propose to support town play?
At this point transparent observations are my strength. Aggression for me is fun and all but very often seems to lead to situations we have with Sylencia v Zarepath. He wants to lurk as town and offer no helpful information himself and use information other people gather to give his opinions. On top of this he then criticizes it when it is exactly what Syl had to do to answer Zare's case. It makes no sense considering it is exactly what he wants to watch happen. (have people question each other for information so he can make cases) The only problem with what happened was that a bandwagon did not form on a possibly innocent Syl and thus as scum he had nowhere to hitch his vote to. He also backtracks on Zare just based on the fact that he no longer things the no-lynch would be scummy without a good reason. Stating "it was a ploy" and that is all. At this point in time StriX has moved to my top scum read and therefore I am voting for him. ##Vote: StriX
(9)
The vote on StriX.
Starts off copy/pasting my comments. Goes back into policy lynch talking.. Seriosly Omni... future games you roll as town, you need to let it go man.... Justification regarding StriX->zarepath is weak, but passable as a town motivation.
Then finishes off with more policy talk. I assumed he realised the justification for the vote was weak, so decided to spruce it up with some policy justification.
Weak overall, and lacking conviction..
Wait a sec, didnt my guide on scum hunting, suggest we don't call out early town reads, because mafia can easily do it because they arent lying... whereas, its hard for mafia to build a detailed case, because naturally they have to lie (to vote a townie)... hmmmm
its coming to gether.
SCREAMING SCUM!
Omni has approximately 30 posts. I have chosen to pass through 9 key posts. Maybe some in general read null. But if you take all the 9 posts as a sum of contributions.. the result is zilch. Its all fluff revolving around policy, and copy/paste <insert participant post>.
This screams of scum play to me, and if you are not voting Omni, you better have a damn good reason not to.
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EBWOP
##Unvote:TeMiL
##Vote: OmniEulogy
Sorry mod.
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On January 05 2013 08:52 StriX wrote:
@OmniEulogy
at risk of adding more fuel to the fire. Will you vote for jampidampi if I die VT? I would have been suspicious if you bandwagon'd anyone.
He cant.. read this post..+ Show Spoiler +On January 05 2013 05:46 OmniEulogy wrote:
...
I have a very slight town read on Jampi. I most likely will not be voting on him unless something drastically changes.
.
he thinks Jampi is (slight)town read LOL
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Yeah. I know I said not to make posts 1 hr behind.
Remeber this..
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=389091¤tpage=21#404
Took me 1 hr to make the argument against OmniEulogy.
Anyways, I am not available @ lynch deadline, as I am leaving the house in 2min.
I was set on TeMiL.. i asked the coaches overnight for advice on whether to pursue the scum read, or vote the useless townie.
The advice they gave me, I took it under consideration and along with the other points I identified, I decided to make the post against Omni.
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Unfortunately I have to go now,
if you want to keep your vote on StriX.. fine.. but my vote isnt going there.
when he flips town, i would be looking carefully . VERY carefully @ jampidampi and OmniEulogy.
Is it not interesting with such a small filter, Omni declares jampi (slight) town read, and then sheeps his vote on StriX.
Spag/Cora.,,, whether you agree with me or disagree, we will find out post-deadline.. but if Strix is voted off, and he is town, you guys are coming under serious fire from me Night 1 (dw, i dont expect to live Day 2)
Peace OUT.
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I am back for about 30min, and then probably won't be back till about 8 hrs from End of Night.
Haven't read since I left (about p24) so don't even know who was lynched.
I will try to pop in for snippets between now and when i have proper spare time.
Please direct any questions for me, my way; I don't bite.
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On January 05 2013 09:55 OmniEulogy wrote:
I think TeMiL's case should be looked at during D2 and we need to put some serious attention on him. Get him to put down all his thoughts on what happened D1 during N1. We Need him to start contributing.
How convenient OE.
I havn't read the whole thread, but now know StriX was VT.
Cora /Spag better build some pressure/cases on you like that promised.
I am not going to let you target TeMiL to lower your suspicion.,
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On January 05 2013 11:11 OmniEulogy wrote:
I'm not ignoring the votes on Jampi. I'm ruling out Syl for the time being and I couldn't even begin to guess at TeMiL. Who else has votes on them other than those two? I know you'd like to believe Spag and myself are both scum but you are wrong. Cora is also a null read at the moment.
And I already said why I wouldn't vote for TeMiL. I made my case against StriX... do you really not care who a vote gets placed on that much? Nothing in what you have just said makes much sense. "I switched from TeMiL because I saw a chance to change to you, Why weren't YOU voting for TeMiL?" really? I've said multiple times a vote on TeMiL is wasted right now.
Your case against StriX sucked. I commented about it in my case... you obviously didn't read it.
Cora null, you have got to be joking.
Cora is playing more pro-town than me; if you can't see that, you are obviously scum OmniEulogy.
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On January 05 2013 11:19 Spaghetticus wrote:
@Corazon
My response to your second post was an attempt to lead you into Mocsta's honey pot.
You took Mocsta's bait, but responded pretty will IMO. I think you ignored mine, which was also the right move.
On January 05 2013 11:19 Spaghetticus wrote:
You took Mocsta's bait, but responded pretty will IMO. I think you ignored mine, which was also the right move.
Spaghetticus, you are constantly inserting my name and scum in the same sentences.
I am not going to bother inserting the posts, because I would run out of page space...(read through the filter search Mocsta, and it is evident)
If you have a problem with me, and the way I am operating.. Call me out directly, and make a case.
Otherwise, you are trying to influence individuals in a deceptive manner. I think everyone can agree that is NOT town-like.
(For the record, I don't even know what your "honey-pot" is referring to)
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On January 05 2013 11:23 cDgCorazon wrote:
(1)
We shouldn't forgive OE for mislynching, but we shouldn't crucify him for it either. However, I will be watching him a bit more closely from now on.
(2)
On Mocsta's attack on OE: I feel like Mocsta was exaggerating a bit in his accusations by saying that OE had only talked about policy and fluff. I feel like this is too harsh on OE.
(3)
The biggest issue I've had with it is the timing. One hour before the lynch? Was it that important to where it could have been saved for N1?
I shall respond.
Firstly, you don't like one of my actions over 48hrs. Do you think one action unwrites every other; is this how you intend to play the game? If you truly think all my other actions in this game have been scum-oriented, than your question obviously stands, and I have no qualms to answer.
But in all seriousness, if it is one action you have concerns about, you are doing several poor town plays
(1) you are taking away attention from genuine suspects
(2) wasting thread counts
Assuming you actually do think I have had scum motives for all my actions in this game.. the answers to your questions are as follows:
(1) I agree townies make mistakes, and shouldnt be crucified. Caveat: "Townie"... I have also noticed you have a very strong tendency to watch this game... similar behavior to what StriX wanted...
(2) OK, you think some areas are exaggerated; if you have doubts about my case, perhaps you should share with town and see if they perceive it the same way. I also don't see why you think policy talk is solid pro-town behaviour, but that is an outside-thread conversation.
Fair enough you think I am harsh; but instead of slapping me on the wrist.
Why don't you be constructive and try to point out the flaws in my logic.
(3) I have noticed you in particular have a tendency not to read my posts in their entirety, and call me out on things I have explained. If you are actually trying to say "hey Moctsa, your reasoning isn't up to scratch, please detail more" I will be like "sure Corazon, how are these ... blah blah blah... for you" instead, you just confuse the thread space, by asking me to repeat items already addressed.
Assuming you don't like my initial reasoning, what happened was.
Middle of Day 1, I was asking for scum reads.
I said I would make my case 8hrs from lynch, so would hold off.
Come ~10hrs from lynch, I was about to start doing my analysis on OmniEulogy (my top scum read), which is when TeMiL posted.
His post was so utterly *insert expletive*I felt compelled to overrule my top scum read, and target him. The rational was simple, his vote can't be relied on, and he is a loose cannon (this was actually proven by his final vote).
I posed a question to the coach(s) on theory crafting the situation.
I woke up @ 6.30 (2hrs before lynch) and after reading the coach(s) feedback and your digs at me for voting TeMiL I decided to pursue Omni.
To go through filter and make commetary takes time. im sorry it was unlaeshed 1hr before lynch.
In hindsight..I agree, it could have been handled better, but these things happen.
Now we need to find the flaws in my logic of Omni, discuss them, and see where to go from there.
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On January 05 2013 11:36 OmniEulogy wrote:Show nested quote +On January 05 2013 11:17 zarepath wrote:On January 05 2013 11:11 OmniEulogy wrote:
I've said multiple times a vote on TeMiL is wasted right now. I am trying to discern why you say that switching my vote from TeMiL to you is bad play. I personally think it was fine, but I would like to hear your reasoning and not necessarily because I'm trying to out you as scum with your answer. it wasn't necessarily about the vote coming off TeMiL, I feel its more about not explaining yourself and just throwing it out there. If you are willing to go over why you changed your vote using your own reasoning and not just because of Mocsta's post I'd feel a lot better about it.
I completely agree with Omni question. Your vote had 0 justification, you didnt even admit you were sheeping.
This is not acceptable town behaviour
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Lol.. because he reiterated my TeMiL case...
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=389091¤tpage=17#335
go figure.
On January 05 2013 12:22 Spaghetticus wrote:Show nested quote +On January 05 2013 11:23 Sylencia wrote:
If Temil is scum, there is another teammate to worry about. All that needs to happen is that Temil listens to them, and bandwagon to the appropriate vote. It is not 6/1 as you say it is, it would still be 6/2. You have to remember that while he has no influence in our discussions, he still holds a vote. If he is scum, that is a potentially powerful vote.
If Temil is town, no one is guiding him. He will not be voting in a very rational manner, he will not be reading our posts and cases, instead making his own (as you can see from his posts, he has made a few random accusations at you and Jampi) and voting off that. This is NOT the situation we want to be in, because if we reach a stalemate during the next vote, we would have to see how Temil votes.
Assuming we have 2 scum and a townie on one person, and townies voting on town, we would be leaving it up to a 50/50 chance he understands the situation, and votes the right one. Not the best odds.
Taking it further if he is town: He probably won't be killed because he is a liability to town. You're now in a 3-2 situation. Do you want to have Temil be the decider of the game? This is sound analysis, you are really speaking my language with this post. His vote is actually more powerful since he doesn't have to justify it in any way. In regard to influence it is 6/1, but in terms of voting it is more like 6/2.5 (2.5 is mean to represent TemiL's more powerful vote, it's more powerful than a single vote but not as powerful as two). TeMiL holding the balance of power as town does not worry me. Scum has exactly the same handicap in their voting, they have no clue where his vote will land. Approximately the same options for circumvention are available to both scum and town. Scum have more solid powers of premeditation, and can therefore invest more into outcome certainty, but this commitment to a lynch comes at a price of providing information. For town, I know I will be micromanaging the lynch to ensure one of my reads goes down, and I expect other town will want to do the same. You are correct in assessing TeMiL as a detriment to town, the question now becomes whether this negative is outweighed by anyone else's play. Oh crap. There are no vigilantes this game. A vigikill would be perfect for this occasion. I have actually been hoping that there was a vigilante present and listening, but I guess this goes to show I should pay more attention to the OP. There are also no medics... This makes Mocsta's fate almost certain... How frustrating. Regardless, your analysis is impressive Syl, this improves your standing substantially in my eyes. I am wary of you deliberately catering to the known disposition of one of your threats, but that is good play for both town and scum.
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EPT
