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Newbie Mini Mafia XXXIV - Page 10
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Mocsta
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Mocsta
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Questions for jampidampi Preface A - TeMiL filter, comments (1)+ Show Spoiler [The Vote] + On January 05 2013 09:45 TeMiL wrote: Dont have much time. I didnt expect this results but i know this can change in last minute. ##VOTE:jampidampi you only write when you want. Sounds a lurk for me. you made a deep thought and then nothing else. TL;DR TeMiL finishes his last action, and votes jampidampi Preface B - jampidampi filter, comments (1)+ Show Spoiler [The Promise] + (a)+ Show Spoiler [Lynch lurkers] + On January 03 2013 16:25 jampidampi wrote: Lurkers contribute nothing to town, so if we don't get a scumread, I think lynching a lurker is fine D1. ... (b)+ Show Spoiler [Post Integrity] + On January 03 2013 22:46 jampidampi wrote: ... As to why you shouldn't lynch the current me: I prefer only to post if it has a meaning. Answearing questing and asking them. Sharing my reads on someone. Unnecessary spam just clutters the thread and hides important post. (c)+ Show Spoiler [Analysis] + On January 03 2013 22:46 jampidampi wrote: .. Once we get a case rolling, be it a scum or town read, we can get discussion and opinions. ... Expect some analysis in while. (d)+ Show Spoiler [Post Integrity again] + On January 05 2013 00:31 jampidampi wrote: To everyone saying that I am lurker: I may have very few posts, but each and every one of them holds a meaning. I do not post without thinking. Every post is crafted with a clear purpose to push the town agenda. Randomly pointing out suspicions that are not severe enough to warrant a case on someone just makes them play more carefully. If the intention is to actually catch a scum, you need to tell about your suspicions while actually providing sufficient evidence. But if you require pointing fingers of suspicion around whenever theres even a bit of scumminess, I will begin to do so. TL;DR jampidampi promises that lynching lurker is fine if no scum read. jampidampi promises that all posts have meaning jampidampi promises analysis jampiagain promises all posts have meaning and quality (2)+ Show Spoiler [The Promised Analysis] + (a)+ Show Spoiler [Weak Town Reads] + On January 04 2013 00:37 jampidampi wrote: My analysis on Mocsta + Show Spoiler + Very active, as he was in Newbie Mini Mafia XXXIII. He's constantly trying to pressure people into posting, going as far as giving them advice on what to post. He was also doing it during XXXIII, so I wouldn't read too much into it. Also, he is the only one who has taken concrete actions (the vote on cDgCorazon) during this whole time. Leaning towards town Spaghetticus + Show Spoiler + If we exclude the the QT question, he plays the way he played in earlier games. First posting a list of lurkers and pressuring them to contribute, then beginning to analyse individual cases. I believe that On January 03 2013 11:42 Spaghetticus wrote: DO NOT LURK. IDGAF WHO PLAYS SCUMMY I WILL BE VOTING THE LURKIEST PLAYER DAY ONE PERIOD. was his way of saying that he hates lurkers. Regarding the QT question: If he was scum, he would have gotten the QT link with his role PM. Would anyone ask something they already know of? Or was it a way to get his scumbuddy to come to the QT? It is all just speculation, but I hope everyone here would have the brains to check out the QT from their PM. Leaning towards town cDgCorazon + Show Spoiler + Appears to be playing diffrently from Newbie XXXIII. He hasn't been as active this time around, and he isn't as aggressive with his scum claims. And I don't think he would be purposefully bringing up his scum game so many times if he actually was a scum. Leaning towards town Please note that the analysis on Spaghetticus was written before his post answearing questions. (b)+ Show Spoiler [Weak Summary] + On January 05 2013 19:12 jampidampi wrote: I will try to gather here the big events of D1 leading to the misslynch of StriX.
@Spaghetticus You seems to have acted in a way that would allow to you to jump on any bandwagon on a lurker without atracting too much atention. I will go through your filter later today, but so far you seems very suspicious. And this seems scummy. Not giving information away is suspicious. Could you straight up tell me why you voted on StriX? @Mocsta You seem very sure that StriX would flip town. Would you mind giving your reasonings to this? Did you have a townread on him and what in his play made him look like town to you? @zarepath Yet we never saw that. Care to explain? TL;DR jampidampi posts reads which contains 3 players he suspects are town. (2 have died and were town) jampiadmpi posts summary and addresses questions to 3 players (all confirmed town) (3)+ Show Spoiler [Cases] + (a)+ Show Spoiler [StriX] + On January 04 2013 17:19 jampidampi wrote: After examing StriX filter, he feels scummy. + Show Spoiler + In his first post he is only agreeing with others and repeating what others already said about the summary plan. Second post is just policy talk without actually bringing anthing new to the table. A short post just answearing a question. On January 03 2013 22:47 StriX wrote: A bare minimun response to the question.1. Doesn't seem logical to do that so no. As you can deal with a lying or lurking town with less punishment than .5?-1 death/night. 2. No ideas yet honestly - still getting the hang of who is who. Seems like coming up with a excuse not to contribute.3. Zarepath at the moment - mainly due to his policy on no lynch. Town environment can be improved and giving a lynch which could potentially be a free scum kill away seems too steep a price to pay. Accusing someone based on a nolynch policy is an easy thing to do. Next three posts are him answearing my questions about the game he played earlier. After that he takes back his suspicions of zarepath stating that Rationalizing no-lynch is nothing by itself. even though most would agree it's a scummy moveOn January 04 2013 14:24 StriX wrote: Again, bare minimum response.+ Show Spoiler + (1) Have your ideas expanded on "who is who"? Please share (2) You said zarepath is your lead suspect. With the information zarepath has presented since Session 2. What are your revised thoughts? If still a target, I suggest you demonstrate your conviction with a vote; otherwise, begin to identify alternative candidates. 1. I'm starting to yes. 2. Feel like we're going a bit easy on TeMiL and I'd like to vote to lynch him right now. I delayed my vote due to suspecting lurking was due to timezone issues, however, I feel like we've given him long enough to contribute. He is also the only one to not respond to Mocsta's first set of questions. Targetting the easiest player to target: a lyrker with no contrinutions.As an idea Mocsta could you may ##Vote TeMil After that he claims to have contributed with an argument that he later took back. Then he posts his reads/views on everyone without actually giving any reasonings. On January 04 2013 15:27 StriX wrote: Defends letting go of zarepaths pressure with a different playstyle.Seems to defeat the purpose - Much easier to wait for a mistake then tell someone your watching them and expect one. Not to mention you could create one self fulfilling prophecy style. I guess we have different definitions of top scum reads as I really don't feel supporting no lynch is one. Perhaps in a high level (it'd probably be a meta play there actually) game but not in newbie mafia. I guess it's easier to spot things when people point them out to you. Honestly forgot you're the one who gave me the names and neglected to check out the others in more detail. Will now be aware of the leading nature of your questions towards myself. Acknowledges that so far all his actions have been because Mocsta requested him to act.In his last post he defends his vote on TeMiL with some previous game he played. Overall, he has no contributions to speak of and some of his plays are scummy. ##Vote StriX (b)+ Show Spoiler [Mocsta 1.0] + On January 07 2013 14:29 jampidampi wrote: @Mocsta Your case on Omni has been the worst case so far. I will not restate what Cora has already stated. How do you not include Omnis case on StriX as active scumhunting? Your reasoning for StriX being town is So you think his play is bad and you let it go because this is a newbie game? I could understand this if your townread on StriX was something more than giving him some dispensation. Your justification for removing your suspicions from Mocsta are even weaker. You only say Even if I ask you do not provide more reasonings for letting down your suspicions on him. While Omni may quote yuor comments, you never say that you are waiting for StriX to contribute a big post. And Omni does not talk policy in his case, he is accusing StriX of just talking policy. Not to mention posting your case 1 hour before the deadline, even if, as you state yourself, you had your scumread atleast 10 hours beforehand. Your case on TeMiL seems like an excuse not to post a real case. Then you can just say that a coach gave you the advise to pursue your read and that is why posted it so late. I urge everyone to go through Mocstas filter and re-evaluate, if his truly is town. His only big contributions are the cases on Omni and TeMiL, which reek of utter bullshit. Other than that he has just been leading the town to the direction he wants with his questions. What has he actually contributed since N1? Since D1? He has defended himself. I will post a bigger case later, but right now I need to leave for school. (c)+ Show Spoiler [Mocsta 2.0] + On January 08 2013 05:42 jampidampi wrote: Making this took way longer than I expected, but here it is: My case on Mocsta I think Mocsta is an active scum rather than a passive one. And what I mean by that is that instead of trying to stay in the shadows, he is come aggressively forth, being confident not to slip. His main motive isn't to stay hidden, it is to cause caos while appearing as the most contributing person. He does a very good job of missleading town. I will now explain how his posts are crafted to help his agenda. His posts can basicly be split into five categories:
Mocsta starts the game with policy talk. Some more policy talk. Later, he comments on the power of a vote. That's it for posts solely on policy talk. Mocsta has some other posts were he touches on lynching policy, but overall he seems to avoid the subject. Talking about policy is something easy for mafia to do, so by avoiding it his "contributions" seem more of a town nature. More so than that, it gives him the opportunity to attack others because they are talking about policy. + Show Spoiler [Summaries] + The post count summaries I want to direct the attention in these to how he states that the intent of these is not to establish himself as pro town. He has another post where he states that his intention is not to appear as pro town. These just clutter the thread and make us subconsciously believe that Mocsta has contributed more signifigately than it seems. Later he contradicts himself saying this If you haven't read this post, I suggest if you are town please do. He mentions in the orginal post that he would like if it had no impact on our reads, and then goes and claims that this is his best contribution. Why would he claim something as his best contribution if he did not intend do give it as an contribution? Because he is scum trying to appear as town.http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=389091¤tpage=14#269 I know its a long read, but, if I could have only one contribution to town for this game.. I would be satisfied by having posted this. + Show Spoiler [Accusations] + I will group the small accusations and Mocstas to cases (TeMiL and OmniEulogy) separately. + Show Spoiler [Small accusations] + In the beginning, Mocsta accuses cDgCorazon for not answearing his own question. Lol, Mocsta accusing someone for not answearing his own questions. Isn't this what he has been doing all game long? He accuses Spaghetticus for asking about the scum QT access. And raises his suspicions on zarepath. Mocsta doesn't give any reasoning for this accusation. Mocsta calling out StriX for not answearing his questions properly. He associates StriX flipping town with me and OmniEulogy being suspicious. Making as association case before the flip, weren't we instructed not to do this at the end of NMM XXXIII? Then he claims that Spaghetticus repeately links Mocstas name with scum. Looking through Spags filter, this isn't true. Mocsta says that cDgCorazon doesn't fully read his post. He notes that Sylencia's reasoning is based on his case on TeMiL and that Spaghetticus just happily accepts it when it comes from the mouth of someone else (other than Mocsta). Others have already said that Syl took Mocsta reasoning and went further with it. Mocsta attacks OmniEulogy, stating that he (Omni) is trying get an emotional response and saying that Toadesstern is a wise coach obviously, while pressuring Omni more. Even though Omni makes a fair point Mocsta doesn't bother answearing it, instantly passing it as scum behavior. He then accuses Spaghetticus with a point OmniEulogy made. Aka not contributing Mocsta then attacks Spaghetticus for policy reasons. Then he just votes for the lurkiest player. Voting on someone without even reasoning? Mocsta accuses zarepath for not contributing. All of these are easy accusations to do. There is no deeper thought behind most of these. They help Mocsta establish a protown image while making others appear as more suspicious. + Show Spoiler [Cases] + Analysed separately for clarity + Show Spoiler [TeMiL] + Mocstas case on TeMiL At the start, it seems as though Mocsta tries to make it acceptable that he doesn't post any analysis at all. Later on he even said that he had a slight scumread on Omni even before making this post. Even in his opening post he quotes cakepie to say that policy lynching is not an substitute for active scumhunting. Yet he still wants to kill TeMiL because he is not contributing, even thought Mocsta later say that he is 100% town. This is certainly suspicious. Going after the easy target, he would not have to fabricate lies to make his case good. + Show Spoiler [OmniEulogy] + Mocstas case on OmniEulogy cDgCorazon giving his opinion on it I will not repeat what Corazon said, so you should read that too. (1) Why doesn't Mocsta consider Omnis case on StriX as scumhunting? Omni gives out valid points against StriX, but he ignore this as a contributing early and later attacks Omni based on the case even though he himself said it was one of Omnis key posts. Contradicting yourself in the same post. Feels scummy.Policy talk from all is typically meaningless fluff at the start. You say you will actively scum hunt.. but what have you contributed actively? A vote on zarepath.. because he votes no-lynch early game. that is not active scum hunting. That is prejudice. I can vote 100 people between now and deadline. its the vote at deadline that matters. First sign you need to step up your game.. the question is whether town or scum motivation. (7) It is interesting how Mocsta sees Omni retracting his vote as scum, when he himself retracts his stance on Omni with even worse reasoning. His opinion on Omni changes even before he has taken his time to read the thread properly? If he didn't read the thread just what on earth made Mocsta change his opinion? Knowing Omni is town would be one and only mafia 100% that someone is town.Interesting. The justification is quite weak to remove the vote.. He has contributed? big whoop, this is a piss poor attempt to move onto another target. You are admitting here your actual vote justification was weak, or even just sheeping. Again, how does that help town win? Starts off copy/pasting my comments. Goes back into policy lynch talking.. Omni just quoted Mocsta a bit, and he hasn't even said that he waited a big post from StriX. And there is no policy talk, Omni just says that StriX mentioning zarepaths no-lynch policy is not a big contribution. Omni is not doing the policy talking, he is attacking StriX for talking policy. It seems as though Mocsta didn't even read Omnis post properly, or that he is trying to come up with arguments for his case, even when none exist. How is this town minded at all? It isn't, it is telltale scum behavior. Then finishes off with more policy talk. I assumed he realised the justification for the vote was weak, so decided to spruce it up with some policy justification. Omni is not using policy lynching as an argument anywhere in his case. What Omni actually states is that StriX being suspicious of zarepath because of the no-lynch and then backtracking on it, saying that he (StriX) doesn't consider the no-lynch so scummy anymore, is, in fact, scummy behavior. Intentianally missunderstanding someone is scummyAll in all, your case is weak. You twist Omnis words to fit your reasonig, and post the case late causing confusion, even though you had your suspicions for a while. This is really scummy. These cases of yours reek of scum mentality. First going after the easy target with TeMiL and then going after Omni hoping for a last minute confusion bandwagon. + Show Spoiler [Leading others] + I will split up the analysis and go through the posts adressing everyone separately. + Show Spoiler [Leading a single person] + Asking zarepath to give his thoughs on Spaghetticus. Asking me to pressure StriX. Suggesting zarepath to make a case on Sylencia or Omni. Pressuring Cora/Spag to make a case against Omni. Asking zare to decide who is scummier, TeMiL or Omni. Asking Sylencia to comment on Spags post for him. Asking Omni to comment on Spags post. Asking Spag to work on the the theory Syl provided. This isn't contributin in any way. Asking Syl to give his though on my logic on the Omni case. Asking someone to defend you against the reasonings of others is not town behavior. Asking Spag to basicly give a townread on zare. Basicly asking zare to to make a case on Spag. This post contributes nothing for town. Asking Omni to give his evidence on me. Again, zero contribution. Asking Syl to give his thoughts on zare. Asking others to vote for Spag first. What? Why is Mocsta not voting on Spag immediately? Him and Omni voting on Spag would be enough to lynch him. Why wait? Asking zare to make a case on me. Mocsta is trying to make others think for him. Asking others to do something for you is scummy. + Show Spoiler [Leading everyone] + The first one The second one The third one After these he makes this post, stating even himself that his aim is to guide us. Mocsta creates discussions, making him seem more of an townie, but in reality he is leading everyones thoughts. He is making everyone think for him while his actual contributions remains at a minimum. + Show Spoiler [Reasonigs] + These will be split into to categories: posts where Mocsta defends himself and posts where he reasons without someone asking for it. + Show Spoiler [Defenses] + Mocsta makes his stance on Corazon clear. His is placing his vote on Cora to fabricate giving pressure. It is easy for him to back of stating that he should not pay attention to previous games, but this one. He defends his ask questions but do not answear them-policy. A beatiful way to avoid Syls question while making it seem that just asking questions is giving his thoughs on everything. And says he is not going to comment on the zare/Syl conversation. How is this town oriented? Mocsta defends his vote on TeMiL. He defends his coming voteswitch. He defends presenting his case late. Mocsta defends his read on Omni. Then he defends his townread on StriX. Mocsta townread is based on giving dispensation to StriX, not on his actions. What? Mocsta can't give us a single action of StriXs with town motives and still considers him town? This is just an excuse for what he said earlier. And he defends his lack of analysis. Another post defending the Omni case. And yet another post defending the Omni case. Mocstas hint to changing his opinion on Omni just seems as a hindsight way of avoiding responsibility. And nowhere do I state that I am any good at analysing. It seems he is missinterpretetting this post in which I state that random accusations will lead us next to nowhere. Mocsta defending his vote on me while reasoning not to lynch TeMiL. Notice how he is still not giving his reasonings but letting others figure them out? This is not town play. And he does not address the case of a misslynch, which was the orginal point of Syl: not bringing us to a point were TeMiLs vote decides the game. He finally addresses Sylencias point of TeMiL being maybe scum while defending not lynching TeMiL. Still doesn't address if he is in the event of a misslynch okay with TeMiLs vote deciding the game. Because he is scum and this would actually benefit him. Mocsta defends himself against me pointing out his bad logic on his Omni case. Why the heck doesn't he bother to write down what is wrong with my reasoning? If there actually was something wrong with it, why not point it out? It is because he is trying to undermine my credibility in fear of the actual case. He defends not lynching TeMiL. He just theorises about random lynching while providing nothing new. Another post defending not lynching TeMiL. Again not giving his thoughs on whether he thinks it is okay to have TeMiLs vote decide the game. Mocsta defending not lynching TeMiL and his vote on me. In what basicly is a summary post. Mocsta defending his statement that town is winning. How can anyone think that town is winning? If we don't lynch scum now, it's LYLO the next day. Mocsta defending his various arguments. Then he defends Omni, without actually telling us why he considers him town. Notica also how he treats his case on Omni as two players misscommuncating. Even though most of Mocstas points do not stem from a dialog. After D1 until my vote on him, Mocsta is very defensive, not contributing much of anything else than his defenses. + Show Spoiler [Orginal reasonings] + Mocsta reason in advance his voteswitch. Mocsta giving his general musings. Basicly a summary post, where he states that Spag is his top read. If Spag is his top read why not vote for him? Or atleast provide a case? This is classic scummy behavior. Mocsta theorising associations. He has stated many times before that he doesn't want to make association cases. Yet what does he do now? As we can see he doesn't reason much if something isn't asked from him. Not giving information is scummy. + Show Spoiler [Very suspicios points not mentioned] + TL;DR: He is leading others while his contributions remain subpar. Not giving information is a huge scumtell and not voting for your top scum read while constantly changing it without reasonings is really scummy. If Mocsta doesn't flip scum, I'm utterly confused. I leave you with StriXs final post before his lynching: TL;DR jampidampi makes case against confirmed town StriX jampidampi makes case against confirmed town Mocsta jampidampi makes case against confirmed town Mocsta Questions - @jampidampi filter, (a) + Show Spoiler [Flying Under the Radar] + + Show Spoiler + On January 03 2013 16:25 jampidampi wrote: By not being suspicious. If they are careful and appear as townies, we don't have a way of identifying them as scum. Just flying under the radar while townies aggressively blame eachother leading to a misslynch is a perfect mafia D1. You specifically mention "flying under the radar" as a good mafia trait to perfect. Your filter is 1.5 pages; and many confirmed townies have questioned your post integrity. Anyone would think that low post count, and low quality count is equivalent to flying under the radar... a trait you mention is mafia aligned. Please explain. (b) + Show Spoiler [StriX Case] + On January 04 2013 17:19 jampidampi wrote: After examing StriX filter, he feels scummy. Targetting the easiest player to target: a lyrker with no contrinutions. In his last post he defends his vote on TeMiL with some previous game he played. Overall, he has no contributions to speak of and some of his plays are scummy. ##Vote StriX You promised before that it is acceptable to lynch a lurker if there is no better scum read. StriX does not have a scum read, so votes a lurker.. You call him out for this? Is that not odd? I happened to notice that StriX voted TeMiL.... a confirmed MAFIA.. do you not find it odd that when Strix votes a mafia player.. you retaliate by voting Strix? Please explain. (c) + Show Spoiler [Summary] + On January 05 2013 19:12 jampidampi wrote: I will try to gather here the big events of D1 leading to the misslynch of StriX. 38. TeMiL comes out of nowhere and votes me. @Spaghetticus ... @Mocsta ... @zarepath ... What is odd is that you acknowledge TeMiL votes for you (out of nowhere)... yet the 3 people you choose to question further are Spag, Mocsta and zarepath (all confirmed town). The rest of your filter does not question TeMiL...is it not odd that you accept this vote, and do not challenge it? Please explain. (d) + Show Spoiler [Mocsta case(s)] + (1) On January 05 2013 02:29 jampidampi wrote: @Sylencia ... You overlook the fact that I voted for him because he has no actions that have only town motives behind them. (2) On January 08 2013 05:42 jampidampi wrote: ...(Accusation) They help Mocsta establish a protown image while making others appear as more suspicious. So you admit I am establishing a town image, and by being protown implies only town motives.. yet you make a case on me? P.S. I am now confirmed town btw. Please explain. (e) + Show Spoiler [Peculiarities] + (e.1) + Show Spoiler [Flying Under the Radar] + Between your summary post, and the case on me. The only content you discussed pertained to setups. You did not actively scum hunt, and contribute in the on going discussion. The time that elapsed between your summary post and the case on me was approximately 30 hrs. I understand you want all your posts to be meaningful; but that is not an acceptable time span between meaningful contributions. If anything, it looks like "flying under the radar" a trait you described earlier in question (a) as a scum tendency. Please explain. (e.2) + Show Spoiler [Potential Slip] + On January 04 2013 16:26 jampidampi wrote: The OP provided the role PMs for each role. In the scum role PMs there is a direct link to the scum QT... Your response was pretty standard answer to a question that any alignment could respond with. Considering all the questions I have regarding you above.. the behaviour patterns are looking scummy. Of course, I offered that olive branch, so in being open minded: Combining all the information I am now aware of, OmniEulogy question to you, appears as a genuine scum slip (on your behalf). Please explain. | ||
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jampidampi.. i expect an answer to all the questions above by the time I wake up tomorrow.. i.e. ~12-14hrs from now. I do not require formalised responses... dot points are enough to address the concerns. If you answer satisfactorily, we shall progress to Sylencia. Thank you for your efforts | ||
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Thank you for answering the questions addressed to you in a timely manner. I found your contributions to those questions significantly more meaningful than the rest of your filter from prior. Thus, I can see your recognise the importance of this choice. zarepath is correct; we don't care why *YOU* think Sylencia is scum. We care about *HOW*/*WHY* you will persuade us he is scum. Your quote is not doing much for your prognosis. On January 10 2013 02:37 jampidampi wrote: Notice how Syl never pressures his scumread, at all. All he does is make a case on someone, then forgets about it. He doesn't even pressure them before making the case. His votes come and go with impulsive traits. It seems that it doesn't matter to him who is lynched. This is even seen in his reasoning on staying on me D1. I am going to have to 100% outright disagree on this jampidampi. + Show Spoiler [1st pressure on jampidampi] + On January 05 2013 01:44 Sylencia wrote: My vote before I go to bed will be currently going to jampi. I'll be back before the deadline, so jampi, if you have a defense, feel free to post it. This is the reason you have given us for a lack of posts. It's one of your first posts, so it's actually more of a pre-emptive explanation of why you would be lurking. You have answered the questions presented, but you do not give us your insight unless asked. This gives me the impression you have to formulate thoughts before giving the answer. If you are a townie, there needs to be more spontaneous input when you observe something that strikes you as being off. You posted some of your town reads, but a lot of it was based on some meta-reads and the logic behind them was still a little flawed. (The reason why the QT was brought up as a potential scum play was because it feigns ignorance, not sure if this was explained.) (Mentioning your scum play from last game doesn't make you more town, it can also be used to distance yourself from your previous game, and thus give the illusion of playing more town) After that, you start to zero in on Strix. Your suspicion only came to light once Mocsta had come and asked you about Strix. This strikes me as suspicious, because it really comes out of nowhere. This is why I would say if you were town, you would bring it up when you saw fit to. Ask questions about it earlier. Instead, there's a sudden accusation followed by a few points made about his posts. In one of your points, you mention how he targets the biggest lurker we have in the group, even though he said in his policy statement he wants to LAL. If anything, that only reinforces the fact he was, at the time since he did end up retracting the vote, following what he said. Your second last statement essentially says 'what I stated against you could be town or could be scum', essentially being on the fence about whether or not he is scum. If he flips, you have some insurance if he is town by saying 'looks like it was town motivated.' Basically, your posts give the impression you're on the fence about whether he is scum or not, you say he is contributing nothing, but you do not provide cases for anyone else and choose to tunnel on Strix. ##Vote jampi + Show Spoiler [2nd pressure on jampidampi] + On January 05 2013 10:47 Sylencia wrote: ... If he has such a weak case, why couldn't he have strengthened it any more by asking more questions, as he said he would in his first few posts. Instead, all that we get are answers to questions and accusations. It's not exactly good enough to say you have little to no information to go off, and leave it be and vote. It's slack, and it's scummy because it shows you don't care about the consequences of tunneling a player... + Show Spoiler [3rd pressure on jampidampi] + On January 08 2013 01:03 Sylencia wrote: So basically, for jampi, I already did him for Day 1, so adding to it for day 2: This is attempted analysis, but it doesn't say anything at all. Doesn't state if he thinks it's a RB or JK, it's just statements which could have been drawn pretty easily by anyone. The case on Mocsta is the only other big post on day 2, it's not really a solid case either. It honestly rates about the same level as Strix's case he posted which I said was weak on Day 1 as well. Jampi, you're flying under the radar more than pretty much anyone here. Are you following your own advice or are you just playing badly? When we are making a critical decision to bandwagon jampidampi on Day2.. Sylencia is the person who decides to think rationally and ensure we clear OmniEulogy first, by questioning him... thus as a continuation of "3rd pressure on jampidampi" we get a vote on OmniEulogy as follows: + Show Spoiler [Pressure vote on OmniEulogy to ensure…] + On January 08 2013 01:03 Sylencia wrote: Omni: ... -- Basically, jampi still looks suspicious as hell, no real contribution, trying to fly under the radar in Day 2 - still giving no real clues to his being town (if he is at all), but the last few posts Omni have made while what seems to be half-asleep really makes me wonder if he just slipped up. Lesson learned from NMM33: People make slips. If you ignore them, you could lose the game from it. ##Vote OmniEulogy As an aside, I have noticed in your evidence for Sylencia to be scum, and your evidence for Mocsta to be scum that you attempted to twist facts into your argument. Very strong confirmation bias. That you can call Sylencia impulsive is ridiculous. Him and cDgCorazon were the two players that have been the most meticulous in questioning everyone. OmniEulogy and myself are the impulsive two....How you can not see this is mind boggling. THAT you can't see Sylencia pressures people is mind boggling. I have pointed out 3 situations he has pressured YOU.. there are also others he has pressured. This confirmation bias is too strong. You are not helping your cause... but it has only been 24 hrs out of 48hrs. I believe in fairness; so I am going to give you one more chance to address the above AND convince zarepath and myself that you are town. P.S. if you pass this test, question time on Sylencia will start. You have 8 hrs to respond, other you receive my vote | ||
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Some further questions for you, now that I have pondered your reply in more detail. (1) + Show Spoiler [The vote count analysis that MATTERS] + On January 10 2013 00:03 jampidampi wrote: Three other players voted on StriX, not just me. If my suspicions of StriX would be just him voting for TeMiL, why would others have voted for him? When StriX was lynched: Votecount: StriX (4): jampidampi, OmniEulogy, Spaghetticus, cDgCorazon jampidampi (2): Sylencia, TeMiL OmniEulogy (3): Mocsta, zarepath, StriX Now that we know TeMiL is mafia.. Why would both mafia vote together against you.. it does NOT make sense. [INDEnt] If we include context from Day 1, the previous 2 candidates were StriX and jampidampi. Sylencia stayed on you, you stayed on Strix... Omni made a case on Strix, cDgCorazon agreed. Spag moved as well... Taking this all in... it makes NO SENSE for two mafia to be voting jampidampi.. Sylencia was not a prime candidate, thus, there was no requirement for two votes to start a bandwagon. Further, it would be typical for mafia to distance their votes, again exemplified by your vote on Strix, and TeMiL on Sylencia. Please explain TL;DR On further Vote Count Analysis of Day 1 "it makes NO SENSE for two mafia to be voting jampidampi". (2) + Show Spoiler [Following up...(or lack of)] + On January 05 2013 19:12 jampidampi wrote: I will try to gather here the big events of D1 leading to the misslynch of StriX. 38. TeMiL comes out of nowhere and votes me. @Spaghetticus ... @Mocsta ... @zarepath ... Others had already questioned TeMiL enough for me. I could see that he was not responding to anything, so why ask if I wouldn't get an answear? Instead I chose to question the ones that were at that point the most suspicious to me, Spag for his big posts that were on policies and acting in way that would allow him to jump on any bandwagon on almost anyone, zare for jumping on bandwagons and not giving the analysis promised, you for being sure that StriX would flip town. Bizarre... you say you DID NOT question TeMiL because noone was responding? Let me point you to your own quotes... On January 05 2013 19:27 jampidampi wrote: @Mocsta Do you still think Omni is scum? If you do, please pressure him more. Follow up On January 07 2013 04:49 jampidampi wrote: @Mocsta I think you have had enough time to think of this. So I ask again, do you still Omni is scum? If not what in his paly changed your opinion? 2nd follow up On January 08 2013 23:58 jampidampi wrote: @Mocsta: Now that I have answeared all the question, it is your turn. Answear me. You claim that my case for you is weak, if this is true, then go ahead and rip it apart. I bet you cannot actually do that. So I wasn't responding to you.. but you could request me 3 times to contact you. For TeMiL.. you could not respond once... Please Explain. TL;DR jampidampi does not follow up on TeMiL because he was "not responding to anything" YET. jampidampi follows up multiple times on myself, but I was "not responding" either. | ||
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Perhaps 8hrs was too quick. I will extend my deadline by 4hrs.. hence, you would have had 12hrs to reply. Otherwise my hammer vote will be issued to you. | ||
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On January 10 2013 15:59 jampidampi wrote: (2) Your situation and TeMiLs were different. TeMiL wasn't answearing at all. Others questioned him. You answeared others, but not my quetions. Many questioned TeMiL about his vote, few questioned you. I have serious issues with this comment. Many people questioned his vote... Well guess what.. i just did a thread search of "all" pages, and "TeMiL".. Received about 560 hits. There is only 1 question posted to TeMiL after Day 1. On January 05 2013 10:38 OmniEulogy wrote: @TeMiL Give us your thoughts on what happened during the first Day. What do you think about who got lynched? Why did you vote for Jampi? Who are your top scum reads? Why do you not post often? What do you think about the cases that have been made on people? I'd like these answers before the end of N1. You've had more than enough time and clearly you read the thread and know when things are happening. On January 05 2013 13:04 OmniEulogy wrote: I should add that I'm not targeting TeMiL as a scum suspect. I asked him those questions to get him to contribute. I believe trying to figure out what he is atm is useless. Maybe after he answers those questions we'll be able to have some sort of read but I'm not getting my hopes up. Just Keep thinking what you will though. Your going to have to do better than this jampidampi. Please address the outstanding questions. I know you know where they are | ||
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I have 1 question for you. (1) + Show Spoiler [Spaghetticus concerns] + On January 07 2013 15:16 Spaghetticus wrote: ... Syl and Mocsta are now being read because I know that they are both capable of gaining town status as scum. ... Syl sits on the line of activity that I would call 'optimal scum activity'. He is not a lurker, and he has not need to lie or mislead town. Town has mislead themselves, so his near riskless play puts him in a perfect survival state where all he has to do is post analytic truths and town will detonate on their own. ... Spaghetticus raises valid points. Please address these. | ||
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I believe this is the hammer vote... i.e. the only way Sylencia can be voted is with 4 votes, which is essentialyl impossible (Sylencia wouldnt vote to lynch himself) | ||
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seriously... Whilst I thought Spag decision to cop you was odd.. now.. it was a saviour... if you were not confirmed.. due to your activity over Night 2/Day3, I would probably push for your lynch; or at a minimum severely pressure you. | ||
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i actually thougth sylencia reply was weird. ohh well | ||
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On January 11 2013 12:37 cDgCorazon wrote: I just think you need to stop having ridiculous amounts of confirmation bias Moc. It hurt the town so much this game. If you would have lynched Jampi D2 instead of Spag, it would've been a lot easier to point out Syl, and Spag could have done a better job of arguing his innocence. Im not going to say anything more to this than the below. I think you are being unreasonable in your statement. I don't disagree with the confirmation bias. The obs qt clearly indicates what they thought; some of it was disapointing to read, but honesty is appreciated none-the-less. Its a shame, because it was a goal of mine to reduce the tunneling; obviously I failed. I will contest the overall statement however. I think from where you are sitting, its very easy to point a finger to suggest one point of blame; instead I would think that in general there was a severe lack of critical thinking. *note with the following, I am not saying my cases are good*.. I would also suggest that: if all of my cases/reads were so poor, then why did others bandwagon with me. You say I led the town astray, perhaps I did.. but why was no one critically questioning the cases/reads I gave? I think the blame is to be distributed to the many participants of town; not just myself. Im not taking anything away from Sylencia.. until his last post, i thought he was set town. Hence, to me, he did an excellent job, even though everyone in the QT is obviously a vet and picked up on him straight away. If you read the mafia QT, he was pretty much flying solo, and even more amazing effort on his behalf. FYI, though Sylencia last post made me reconsider everything; I did not bother anymore to push him, because zarepath voted and jampidampi rage quitted.. what would the point be. I wrote the hammer vote thing because, with 3 votes. you need 4 to overtake which was impossible; and if i voted no-lynch, jampidampi was still on the table. lose/lose situation. | ||
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And noted on the hammer vote, makes sense, but I didn't put two and two together at the time. | ||
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what jampi tried to do unfortunately mimic'd that. As an aside. Regardless of whether my reads are.right or wrong. the heuristic to assume newbie scum are inactive is weak. | ||
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On January 11 2013 16:00 cDgCorazon wrote: I know it sounded like I was being an asshole, but I was just trying to be pragmatic and keep all of my options open and think for myself. I don't think you were ever an asshole in the game. I thought you were the key. To refresh your memory this was from my Night 1 post, I thought I was 50/50 with your for the NK. On January 06 2013 01:07 Mocsta wrote: cDgCorazon Overall I like the way you are playing, and its good you called me out. That was a completely sound play. The only thing I will say to you regarding the above is.. Towards the end, I think you were blinded by my actions and begun to tunnel me. Because I think you are a critical component of this game, I tried my best to answer your questions with respect (but I REALLY wanted to just tell you to fuck off). I am telling you this because for Day2, town REALLY will need your pragmatic approach to continue. | ||
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On January 12 2013 00:16 Dandel Ion wrote: 3) Mocsta: STOP BREAKING RULES FFS Not every host is as incredibly lenient as I am. You could get modkilled for the first transgression, especially if it's not a newbie game. I have been amazingly patient with you, .... Yes, you were very patient. I appreciate it, and have learnt my lessons. Thank you for not modkilling me. | ||
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But when that cop claim came out, i was on the bus and on the phone so didnt give it the thought it needed. In the end though, just because I say im voting you, doesnt mean everyone else has to sheep me. Everyone is accountable for their own actions. | ||
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