EPTOn December 18 2012 01:52 JieXian wrote:
He should defend himself I don't like making assumptions on how his thought process works beacuse I can only imagine part of it.
I'll just say that there wasn't anything wrong with post lynch anger because it was based on his READ on morb.
hapa's complainig that he (hapa) was ignored doesn't say anything because he's been ignoring my questions since yesterday
Funny how hapa doesn't see how I was preventing the mislynch lol and was questioning me
HAPA YOU made the "mislynch"
address that
Show nested quote +
On December 18 2012 01:31 Djodref wrote:
Why are you misinterpreting the events ?
Hapa's case against Eywa has been the most extensive case in this game + Show Spoiler [Hapa's case] + and I think it is spot on. The scumslip is just the icing on the cake here and it's true that people have mainly focused on this one. I didn't see Eywa addressing the big case against him so far.
Show me why you thing this case is wrong.
On December 18 2012 01:19 JieXian wrote:
think of a strong town player like dp, being careful about his decisions
what about hapa? JUPM ON HIM JUMP ON HIM SCUMSLIIIIIIIIIIIP JUMP EVERYONE
comparing kush to someone who's able to raise money for a bw tournament and organise things is a huge insult to him.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=387231
please.
On December 18 2012 01:04 Djodref wrote:
I would vote Eywa for the whole case Hapa brought up against him. And, yes, the deciding point for me was the scumslip. Go read NMM XXVIII in my profile and see scum kush getting lynched D1 for a scumslip of this order.
What scumslip are you talking about regarding morbidius ? I don't remember this.
And your case is weak. I would go as far as saying that it's not even a case. What logic are you talking about ?
On December 18 2012 00:49 JieXian wrote:
read my case and don't base your judgement on your philosophy on consistency
town hapa was tunneling on hopeless on d1 while jingle and I were dying to swing the vote onto someone else
you people have been voting based on 1 thing
jx - scumslip
morbid - scumslip
eywa - scumslip
read the dam case
On December 18 2012 00:46 Djodref wrote:
@ JX
How much are you familiar with Hapa play ?
"Town Hapa can't possibly screw up his logic that badly"
What logic are you talking about ? I told you that the fact that you are consistent doesn't make you town.
Town players don't know about any other players alignment. So it's natural for them to change their minds Because they have no fucking idea who is who...
@ JX
How much are you familiar with Hapa play ?
"Town Hapa can't possibly screw up his logic that badly"
What logic are you talking about ? I told you that the fact that you are consistent doesn't make you town.
Town players don't know about any other players alignment. So it's natural for them to change their minds Because they have no fucking idea who is who...
read my case and don't base your judgement on your philosophy on consistency
town hapa was tunneling on hopeless on d1 while jingle and I were dying to swing the vote onto someone else
you people have been voting based on 1 thing
jx - scumslip
morbid - scumslip
eywa - scumslip
read the dam case
I would vote Eywa for the whole case Hapa brought up against him. And, yes, the deciding point for me was the scumslip. Go read NMM XXVIII in my profile and see scum kush getting lynched D1 for a scumslip of this order.
What scumslip are you talking about regarding morbidius ? I don't remember this.
And your case is weak. I would go as far as saying that it's not even a case. What logic are you talking about ?
think of a strong town player like dp, being careful about his decisions
what about hapa? JUPM ON HIM JUMP ON HIM SCUMSLIIIIIIIIIIIP JUMP EVERYONE
comparing kush to someone who's able to raise money for a bw tournament and organise things is a huge insult to him.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=387231
please.
Why are you misinterpreting the events ?
Hapa's case against Eywa has been the most extensive case in this game + Show Spoiler [Hapa's case] +
On December 17 2012 07:33 Hapahauli wrote:
Introduction:
One of my weaknesses as a player is catching more active mafia players. I tend to read into activity as genuinity a little too much. When I unvoted Eywa- earlier, it was partially because of that. While he came into the thread, he all of a sudden was actively pushing a case (against myself), and he looked to me like a confirmation-bias spewing townie.
However, when you really examine his play from yesterday, that's just simply not the case. If there's one player that was pushing mafia objectives yesterday, it was Eywa-.
Table of Contents:
1) Ewya's "Case"
2) Ewya "Addressing" My Defenses
3) Ewya "Pushing" His Case (or, why this is isn't simply him being stupid town)
4) Post-Lynch Anger ***This one is the most damning***
First let's establish the context of Eywa's case.
1) He was absent for most of Day 1
2) When he arrived in the thread, he started bombing suspicion against a player who had no chance of getting lynched (myself).
The second point is the most relevant. It's a very common mafia tactic to bomb a third party case to create chaos in the town. It's also very common for mafia to push a player who has no chance of getting lynched, as they can appear to be useful while not doing anything for the town.
Now none of this makes him scum alone (yet), however, when you start to look at the content of his cases, it's very very lacking. Basically Eywa's entire point against me is that I've been "bandwagonning." The spoiler below is his compilation of posts on the subject:
+ Show Spoiler +
One way for mafia to avoid making analysis is to be obsessed with irrelevant topics. In this case, Eywa- is obssessed with the idea of bandwagonning. Even though bandwagonning has no relevance to one's allignment, he uses it as a talking point over and over again. But more importantly, he's somehow 100% convinced that I'm scum based on this talking point, which is nonsensical.
Initially thinking he was a confirmation-bais ladened townie, I took some time to address his accusations.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=386816¤tpage=38#760
Here for example, I made a fairly long and well laid out post for why his accusations were wrong. His replies:
Eywa straight-up ignores me. He doesn't even read my defense. He doesn't attempt to analyze it. Instead, he keeps screaming "Hapa is scum" without any substance. A townie would atleast attempt to read my defense. Eywa doesn't - he keeps trying to push his suspicion while avoiding any attempts at analysis.
The problem is that Eywa doesn't push his case against me. He's more concerned about justifying his own vote on me rather than convincing others to vote for his top scumread. For example:
Look at all the above posts. He's not trying to get me lynched. He's trying tell everyone "Hey! I have a reason to vote this guy!"
The ONLY time he ever attempts to get other people to lynch me is the following:
Look at that weak-ass shit. "Please guys, sway your votes." This coming from the guy who is foaming at the mouth that I am scum.
Eywa made this post a couple of hours before the deadline...
... which struck me as really odd for it's pessimism.
So what does town Eywa- do when he thinks townies are going to the gallows and he's convinced I'm scum? NOTHING!
That's right! Nothing! While the town scrambles to put together a lynch at the last minute, this is what he does in the last 25 minutes:
He apologizes, half-ass pushes his suspicions against me, and peaces out. Then after doing jack shit about preventing the mislynch, he goes and does this:
HERP DERP ALL YOU GUYS SUCK I AM AWESOME 'CAUSE I PREDICTED THIS AND DID NOTHING TO STOP IT.
In conclusion, lynch Eywa- tomorrow. He's pushing mafia objectives, he has no case against me, he didn't push said case against me, and his post-lynch anger is the scummiest thing I've seen in this thread.
Eywa-
Introduction:
One of my weaknesses as a player is catching more active mafia players. I tend to read into activity as genuinity a little too much. When I unvoted Eywa- earlier, it was partially because of that. While he came into the thread, he all of a sudden was actively pushing a case (against myself), and he looked to me like a confirmation-bias spewing townie.
However, when you really examine his play from yesterday, that's just simply not the case. If there's one player that was pushing mafia objectives yesterday, it was Eywa-.
Table of Contents:
1) Ewya's "Case"
2) Ewya "Addressing" My Defenses
3) Ewya "Pushing" His Case (or, why this is isn't simply him being stupid town)
4) Post-Lynch Anger ***This one is the most damning***
#1: Ewya's "Case" Against me
First let's establish the context of Eywa's case.
1) He was absent for most of Day 1
2) When he arrived in the thread, he started bombing suspicion against a player who had no chance of getting lynched (myself).
The second point is the most relevant. It's a very common mafia tactic to bomb a third party case to create chaos in the town. It's also very common for mafia to push a player who has no chance of getting lynched, as they can appear to be useful while not doing anything for the town.
Now none of this makes him scum alone (yet), however, when you start to look at the content of his cases, it's very very lacking. Basically Eywa's entire point against me is that I've been "bandwagonning." The spoiler below is his compilation of posts on the subject:
+ Show Spoiler +
On December 16 2012 23:30 Eywa- wrote:
Hey guys, I haven't been lurking... I just haven't gotten around to reading up until now. After reading I see a lot of people saying weird shit that I couldn't really come into this game expecting to hear, but that is basically just written off as different cultural background or different lifestyles. I really can't make a judgement based on that. So, I will go by the very standard... Goal of the game. Generally speaking, the mafia or in this case, the church will want to be on everyone's good side... Thus jumping from band wagon to band wagon to please the crowd with his/her vote. For this reason, I shall vote for the king of band wagon hopping:
##vote hapahauli
If you have any questions about me or anything game related to discuss with me concerning my character, please don't hesitate to ask.
Hey guys, I haven't been lurking... I just haven't gotten around to reading up until now. After reading I see a lot of people saying weird shit that I couldn't really come into this game expecting to hear, but that is basically just written off as different cultural background or different lifestyles. I really can't make a judgement based on that. So, I will go by the very standard... Goal of the game. Generally speaking, the mafia or in this case, the church will want to be on everyone's good side... Thus jumping from band wagon to band wagon to please the crowd with his/her vote. For this reason, I shall vote for the king of band wagon hopping:
##vote hapahauli
If you have any questions about me or anything game related to discuss with me concerning my character, please don't hesitate to ask.
On December 17 2012 01:44 Eywa- wrote:
Just read up, he's hopped onto about 4-5 different people for no other reason than it seemed to be a good idea based on one previous post or because someone said it was a good idea.
Just read up, he's hopped onto about 4-5 different people for no other reason than it seemed to be a good idea based on one previous post or because someone said it was a good idea.
On December 17 2012 05:27 Eywa- wrote:
Are you done lying?.. How do you expect me not to accuse you especially after you make a case for yourself which is blatant lies. That's 1, 2, 3 non-lurkers (if you count myself which you've jumped on... I can find more, didn't feel like picking through the whole thread. You have yet to jump on a lurker.
I don't know why you guys are standing for a townie that is supposedly "helping the town by bringing lurkers to post through accusing them" when that reason is a blatant lie.
Show nested quote +
On December 17 2012 05:18 Hapahauli wrote:
I've accused 5-6 people today since they've all been shitty lurkers. The best way to get people to post is to accuse them of being mafia - then they come out of the woodworks and post.
You act like I think all my targets now are mafia. I don't. In fact I'm leaning town on most of my previous targets.
But please explain your read on JX, and how you pulled that out of your ass without EVER having posted on him in your filter.
On December 17 2012 05:15 Eywa- wrote:
1) Nobody should care about your past games, trying to get people to base your play off of past games is pretty scum considering you can be applying the same strategy from either side.
2) You've accused 5-6 different people in today, how is that not band wagon hopping?
3) You expected people to call you out based on your senseless accusations thrown left and right, why act as though it's a surprise all of a sudden?
On December 17 2012 05:11 Hapahauli wrote:
It's disturbing that you know JX's alignment without having provided any analysis on him.
##Vote Eywa
Also, I really don't understand much of your case on me. You accuse me of bandwaggon hopping, when I've been going around and actively getting people to post. My default strategy as town is to go around and pressure as many players as I can to get discussion going. It's on full display in any of my past town games, and I invite you to take a look through my game-history.
In addition, you feel that I'm being the "friendly" mafia, when in fact I'm going around and being anything but. Voting and pressuring multiple players is not the way to be "friendly" in this game, and you're vastly twisting my motives with a generic "bandwagoning" term.
On December 17 2012 05:04 Eywa- wrote:
Means you guys are going to lynch an acolyte... Also, you're reacting offensively to the fact I called you out, yet you expect it due to the nature of your posts. Your entire strategy seems to be around looking like a mafia member.
On December 17 2012 05:02 Hapahauli wrote:
I'm kinda feeling an Eywa lynch at the moment. His "case" on me aside, this post rather scares me:
The hell is this?
I'm kinda feeling an Eywa lynch at the moment. His "case" on me aside, this post rather scares me:
On December 17 2012 04:42 Eywa- wrote:
Civilian lynch: imminent.
Civilian lynch: imminent.
The hell is this?
Means you guys are going to lynch an acolyte... Also, you're reacting offensively to the fact I called you out, yet you expect it due to the nature of your posts. Your entire strategy seems to be around looking like a mafia member.
It's disturbing that you know JX's alignment without having provided any analysis on him.
##Vote Eywa
Also, I really don't understand much of your case on me. You accuse me of bandwaggon hopping, when I've been going around and actively getting people to post. My default strategy as town is to go around and pressure as many players as I can to get discussion going. It's on full display in any of my past town games, and I invite you to take a look through my game-history.
In addition, you feel that I'm being the "friendly" mafia, when in fact I'm going around and being anything but. Voting and pressuring multiple players is not the way to be "friendly" in this game, and you're vastly twisting my motives with a generic "bandwagoning" term.
1) Nobody should care about your past games, trying to get people to base your play off of past games is pretty scum considering you can be applying the same strategy from either side.
2) You've accused 5-6 different people in today, how is that not band wagon hopping?
3) You expected people to call you out based on your senseless accusations thrown left and right, why act as though it's a surprise all of a sudden?
I've accused 5-6 people today since they've all been shitty lurkers. The best way to get people to post is to accuse them of being mafia - then they come out of the woodworks and post.
You act like I think all my targets now are mafia. I don't. In fact I'm leaning town on most of my previous targets.
But please explain your read on JX, and how you pulled that out of your ass without EVER having posted on him in your filter.
Show nested quote +
On December 15 2012 10:26 Djodref wrote:
Hello guys !
I would like to emphasize something very important for this game.
For obvious reasons, because of the Witch Hunter, we should avoid to get a consensus that a player is town. Because if he is town, there are good chances for him to get insta-shoot by the mafia.
On the same note, I don't want to see anybody propose a idea or plan on how to cast our witchcraft votes. Never speak about these votes. Keeping everything for you is the best solution.
Other than that, I would like everybody to give a little hindsight of their game experience, especially newbies, if there are some.
Regarding me, you can find all my previous games on these forums (only forum games I've ever played) in my profile.
Hello guys !
I would like to emphasize something very important for this game.
Never give a single townread this game !
For obvious reasons, because of the Witch Hunter, we should avoid to get a consensus that a player is town. Because if he is town, there are good chances for him to get insta-shoot by the mafia.
On the same note, I don't want to see anybody propose a idea or plan on how to cast our witchcraft votes. Never speak about these votes. Keeping everything for you is the best solution.
Other than that, I would like everybody to give a little hindsight of their game experience, especially newbies, if there are some.
Regarding me, you can find all my previous games on these forums (only forum games I've ever played) in my profile.
Show nested quote +
On December 15 2012 10:29 Djodref wrote:
Because mafia tends to do that.
##Vote MrZentor
On December 15 2012 07:08 MrZentor wrote:
##Vote MrZentor
Because I can.
##Vote MrZentor
Because I can.
Because mafia tends to do that.
##Vote MrZentor
Show nested quote +
On December 15 2012 10:44 Djodref wrote:
Yeah, okay, but I really think that we should avoid it if we can.
I know it's going to be very difficult, but we have to refrain ourselves from doing it while the Witch Hunter is alive...
Yeah, okay, but I really think that we should avoid it if we can.
I know it's going to be very difficult, but we have to refrain ourselves from doing it while the Witch Hunter is alive...
Show nested quote +
On December 15 2012 10:55 Djodref wrote:
You can only vote for one no-vote.
Do you have even Witchcraft vote Hapa ? Maybe you would be more interested in the way you have to use them if you did ?
##Unvote
##Vote Hapa
On December 15 2012 10:49 Hapahauli wrote:
The thing is that you can't live in fear of things like that. I mean when it really comes down to it... who cares about blue roles? A town can win without blues. All we can do is play the game and try to find mafia. If someone gets shot, so be it.
In fact I'm half tempted at this point to have a policy of never voting blues. That way, we'd have a 10-3 setup of 3 mafia goons vs 10 VTs, which IMO is town favored.
On December 15 2012 10:44 Djodref wrote:
Yeah, okay, but I really think that we should avoid it if we can.
I know it's going to be very difficult, but we have to refrain ourselves from doing it while the Witch Hunter is alive...
Yeah, okay, but I really think that we should avoid it if we can.
I know it's going to be very difficult, but we have to refrain ourselves from doing it while the Witch Hunter is alive...
The thing is that you can't live in fear of things like that. I mean when it really comes down to it... who cares about blue roles? A town can win without blues. All we can do is play the game and try to find mafia. If someone gets shot, so be it.
In fact I'm half tempted at this point to have a policy of never voting blues. That way, we'd have a 10-3 setup of 3 mafia goons vs 10 VTs, which IMO is town favored.
You can only vote for one no-vote.
Do you have even Witchcraft vote Hapa ? Maybe you would be more interested in the way you have to use them if you did ?
##Unvote
##Vote Hapa
Show nested quote +
On December 15 2012 11:07 Hapahauli wrote:
Actually you know what?
##Vote Djodref
There's no reason you should be this obsessed with blues and the witchhunter unless you're mafia yourself. On top of this, you've pushed a plan that's anti-scumhunting.
Actually you know what?
##Vote Djodref
There's no reason you should be this obsessed with blues and the witchhunter unless you're mafia yourself. On top of this, you've pushed a plan that's anti-scumhunting.
Show nested quote +
On December 15 2012 11:05 DarthPunk wrote:
Wow your an idiot.
##Vote: Djodref.
Votes Zentor for meaningless self vote. That was obviously meaningless.
Doesn't want to give town reads which is just ridiculous.
Votes for Hapa whom actually brings up a really good point. 13-3 all vt all goon is actually super town favored.
There is no way a rational townie could believe hapa is scum based on the game so far.
So either Djo is being retarded or he is scum. Either way that is enough to get my vote day one.
On December 15 2012 10:55 Djodref wrote:
You can only vote for one no-vote.
Do you have even Witchcraft vote Hapa ? Maybe you would be more interested in the way you have to use them if you did ?
##Unvote
##Vote Hapa
On December 15 2012 10:49 Hapahauli wrote:
The thing is that you can't live in fear of things like that. I mean when it really comes down to it... who cares about blue roles? A town can win without blues. All we can do is play the game and try to find mafia. If someone gets shot, so be it.
In fact I'm half tempted at this point to have a policy of never voting blues. That way, we'd have a 10-3 setup of 3 mafia goons vs 10 VTs, which IMO is town favored.
On December 15 2012 10:44 Djodref wrote:
Yeah, okay, but I really think that we should avoid it if we can.
I know it's going to be very difficult, but we have to refrain ourselves from doing it while the Witch Hunter is alive...
Yeah, okay, but I really think that we should avoid it if we can.
I know it's going to be very difficult, but we have to refrain ourselves from doing it while the Witch Hunter is alive...
The thing is that you can't live in fear of things like that. I mean when it really comes down to it... who cares about blue roles? A town can win without blues. All we can do is play the game and try to find mafia. If someone gets shot, so be it.
In fact I'm half tempted at this point to have a policy of never voting blues. That way, we'd have a 10-3 setup of 3 mafia goons vs 10 VTs, which IMO is town favored.
You can only vote for one no-vote.
Do you have even Witchcraft vote Hapa ? Maybe you would be more interested in the way you have to use them if you did ?
##Unvote
##Vote Hapa
Wow your an idiot.
##Vote: Djodref.
Votes Zentor for meaningless self vote. That was obviously meaningless.
Doesn't want to give town reads which is just ridiculous.
Votes for Hapa whom actually brings up a really good point. 13-3 all vt all goon is actually super town favored.
There is no way a rational townie could believe hapa is scum based on the game so far.
So either Djo is being retarded or he is scum. Either way that is enough to get my vote day one.
Show nested quote +
On December 15 2012 11:47 DarthPunk wrote:
Holy shit. Djo be scummy. Look at that un-OMGUS as soon as Hapa unvotes. also. Both his votes have been weak as shit.
Djo. Are scum or town less likely to read the OP?
Holy shit. Djo be scummy. Look at that un-OMGUS as soon as Hapa unvotes. also. Both his votes have been weak as shit.
Djo. Are scum or town less likely to read the OP?
Are you done lying?.. How do you expect me not to accuse you especially after you make a case for yourself which is blatant lies. That's 1, 2, 3 non-lurkers (if you count myself which you've jumped on... I can find more, didn't feel like picking through the whole thread. You have yet to jump on a lurker.
I don't know why you guys are standing for a townie that is supposedly "helping the town by bringing lurkers to post through accusing them" when that reason is a blatant lie.
On December 17 2012 05:34 Eywa- wrote:
This has nothing to do with the timing, this has to do with your claim (which is a lie)... YOU said that you called out lurkers with votes so that they'd post...
Q: Were they against lurkers?
A: No
You've never voted against a lurker and your entire I'm innocent because story has just fallen to shreds through your own ignorance of past actions you've committed.
Fact: You've jumped from band wagon to band wagon
Fact: You lied about a story that would justify the band wagon hopping.
Fact: You've directly accused anyone who's ever accused you just because "they have yet to justify why they're not guilty"
You're tracking on very thin ice here, you've been pointing fingers all game, I've kept my eye fixed on the game and I've come to one conclusion at every turn.
Show nested quote +
On December 17 2012 05:28 Hapahauli wrote:
Are you an idiot? Those votes were within the first 3 hours of the game.
Are you an idiot? Those votes were within the first 3 hours of the game.
This has nothing to do with the timing, this has to do with your claim (which is a lie)... YOU said that you called out lurkers with votes so that they'd post...
Q: Were they against lurkers?
A: No
You've never voted against a lurker and your entire I'm innocent because story has just fallen to shreds through your own ignorance of past actions you've committed.
Fact: You've jumped from band wagon to band wagon
Fact: You lied about a story that would justify the band wagon hopping.
Fact: You've directly accused anyone who's ever accused you just because "they have yet to justify why they're not guilty"
You're tracking on very thin ice here, you've been pointing fingers all game, I've kept my eye fixed on the game and I've come to one conclusion at every turn.
One way for mafia to avoid making analysis is to be obsessed with irrelevant topics. In this case, Eywa- is obssessed with the idea of bandwagonning. Even though bandwagonning has no relevance to one's allignment, he uses it as a talking point over and over again. But more importantly, he's somehow 100% convinced that I'm scum based on this talking point, which is nonsensical.
#2: Eywa- "Addressing" My Defense
Initially thinking he was a confirmation-bais ladened townie, I took some time to address his accusations.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=386816¤tpage=38#760
Here for example, I made a fairly long and well laid out post for why his accusations were wrong. His replies:
Show nested quote +
On December 17 2012 05:53 Eywa- wrote:
You're not helping yourself... Please guys, sway your votes.
On December 17 2012 05:43 Hapahauli wrote:
Oh this is getting rediculous.
1) Everyone's a lurker in the beginning of the game. I pressured anyone who was around 'cause thats all I can do. How the hell do you pressure someone who hasn't posted yet in the first 3 hours? So I pressured DP and Djo. They are now my strongest townreads.
This is a straight-up lie. I've voted kush (when he was a lurker, and the reason he's not is because of MY tunneling of him). I've voted JieXian (when he was lurky, and he still kinda is), I've pressured Draz, and I've voted for your lurky-ass. You're failing to account for the state of the game when I placed my votes.
"Fact" 1) I haven't "jumped" on any bandwagon. In fact I've been a bandwagon starter. I tunnel people until they convince me they're town or scum.
"Fact" 2) It's not a lie, you're just screaming it is
"Fact" 3) Yes, what's your point? That's how scumhunting works.
Well I'll probably be dead after N1, it's not going to last too long.
On December 17 2012 05:34 Eywa- wrote:
This has nothing to do with the timing, this has to do with your claim (which is a lie)... YOU said that you called out lurkers with votes so that they'd post...
Q: Were they against lurkers?
A: No
On December 17 2012 05:28 Hapahauli wrote:
Are you an idiot? Those votes were within the first 3 hours of the game.
Are you an idiot? Those votes were within the first 3 hours of the game.
This has nothing to do with the timing, this has to do with your claim (which is a lie)... YOU said that you called out lurkers with votes so that they'd post...
Q: Were they against lurkers?
A: No
Oh this is getting rediculous.
1) Everyone's a lurker in the beginning of the game. I pressured anyone who was around 'cause thats all I can do. How the hell do you pressure someone who hasn't posted yet in the first 3 hours? So I pressured DP and Djo. They are now my strongest townreads.
You've never voted against a lurker and your entire I'm innocent because story has just fallen to shreds through your own ignorance of past actions you've committed.
This is a straight-up lie. I've voted kush (when he was a lurker, and the reason he's not is because of MY tunneling of him). I've voted JieXian (when he was lurky, and he still kinda is), I've pressured Draz, and I've voted for your lurky-ass. You're failing to account for the state of the game when I placed my votes.
Fact: You've jumped from band wagon to band wagon
Fact: You lied about a story that would justify the band wagon hopping.
Fact: You've directly accused anyone who's ever accused you just because "they have yet to justify why they're not guilty"
Fact: You lied about a story that would justify the band wagon hopping.
Fact: You've directly accused anyone who's ever accused you just because "they have yet to justify why they're not guilty"
"Fact" 1) I haven't "jumped" on any bandwagon. In fact I've been a bandwagon starter. I tunnel people until they convince me they're town or scum.
"Fact" 2) It's not a lie, you're just screaming it is
"Fact" 3) Yes, what's your point? That's how scumhunting works.
You're tracking on very thin ice here, you've been pointing fingers all game, I've kept my eye fixed on the game and I've come to one conclusion at every turn.
Well I'll probably be dead after N1, it's not going to last too long.
You're not helping yourself... Please guys, sway your votes.
Show nested quote +
On December 17 2012 06:20 Eywa- wrote:
1) Given that the majority of the town (this is if we exclude mafia votes) voted for other people than the guy who got lynched, seems like there wasn't much chance at all that he was a legitimate lynch.
2) Just because you pull shit out of your ass doesn't mean someone misrepresented you.
On December 17 2012 06:18 Hapahauli wrote:
A: Lynching a guy who has a chance to be scum is 100000x better than a no-lynch.
Also, you never got around to explaining why you were misrepresenting my filter earlier. Care to explain?
On December 17 2012 06:16 Eywa- wrote:
Q: Lynching an acolyte is better than no-lynch?
A: Is the goal of the game to lynch your own members? (well not yours, but ours)
On December 17 2012 06:15 Hapahauli wrote:
Let me answer this question with another question:
Was it in town's best interest to no-lynch?
On December 17 2012 06:14 Eywa- wrote:
Your last minute antics could have saved the townie... Care to explain yourself? I need to know this as well (since it's not blatantly obvious)...
On December 17 2012 06:09 Hapahauli wrote:
And thrawn, your last-minute antics read a lot like you didn't give much of a shit about who got lynched. Care to explain your actions a bit?
And thrawn, your last-minute antics read a lot like you didn't give much of a shit about who got lynched. Care to explain your actions a bit?
Your last minute antics could have saved the townie... Care to explain yourself? I need to know this as well (since it's not blatantly obvious)...
Let me answer this question with another question:
Was it in town's best interest to no-lynch?
Q: Lynching an acolyte is better than no-lynch?
A: Is the goal of the game to lynch your own members? (well not yours, but ours)
A: Lynching a guy who has a chance to be scum is 100000x better than a no-lynch.
Also, you never got around to explaining why you were misrepresenting my filter earlier. Care to explain?
1) Given that the majority of the town (this is if we exclude mafia votes) voted for other people than the guy who got lynched, seems like there wasn't much chance at all that he was a legitimate lynch.
2) Just because you pull shit out of your ass doesn't mean someone misrepresented you.
Eywa straight-up ignores me. He doesn't even read my defense. He doesn't attempt to analyze it. Instead, he keeps screaming "Hapa is scum" without any substance. A townie would atleast attempt to read my defense. Eywa doesn't - he keeps trying to push his suspicion while avoiding any attempts at analysis.
#3: Eywa "Pushing" His Case
The problem is that Eywa doesn't push his case against me. He's more concerned about justifying his own vote on me rather than convincing others to vote for his top scumread. For example:
Show nested quote +
On December 17 2012 01:30 Eywa- wrote:
While you make a decent case against Thrawn, I still think that there is more of a case against hapahauli, thus I will not change my vote.
On December 17 2012 01:22 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:
Hey guys, shenanigans here being sorted out. I'm down for a Thrawn lynch, he's a sheeping scummy dude right meow.
Thrawn is an Opportunist
Sheep on Djodref vote, hardcore. No explanation, just does it. Also, the question he asks is self-explanatory.
Slightly discredits Hapa's case, and takes the opportunity to acknowledge that DP looks scummy after an OMGUS vote (duh). He then unvotes to keep his options open. When Hapa makes his more fortified case, he suddenly believes it's some god-given scumhunting then votes for DP.
Wait, What's this?
Didn't Thrawn VOTE for Djo based on this exact thing? He was being obsessed with blue roles / witchhunter and Thrawn sheeped the vote, supposedly because of this. Now he thinks it's not fair to accuse him?
Sheeps onto lurker vote opportunity. Underlined = scummiest shit ever townies like cheesecake over pie.
PROBABLY mean? What? How do you probably mean something...? Town mean things genuinely, scum try to emulate they are meaning something. The rest of this post is garbage--he comes to no read on Kush at all, just flip-flops between the possibility of town kush not wanting to lynch him and the alternative scum motivation.
Above all, Thrawn doesn't seem to care who is lynched:
Okay so he wants to lynch a lurker. By all means, a viable strategy considering the circumstance. But he also wants to lynch Djo, JX, DP... I'm confused. I don't see strong scum reads from him other than on JX due to obvious scumslips. He is sheeping a ton and doesn't seem too caring of who he wants to get lynched.
Just look at this flip-floppiness between lurker lynching and lynching his top scumread.
Maybe we could lynch a lurker! That sounds like a good idea!
But I still really really like a JX lynch!
But maybe we could lynch a lurker! I'm all for that!
Why is Thrawn so indecisive?
He states JX is scum. THEN WHY IS HE KEEPING HIS OPTIONS OPEN LIKE THIS? Town Thrawn would want to push this JX lynch into the ground, not be ready to jump off the wagon at the last minute to lynch a lurker.
Thrawn's general posting in context of the thread seems very opportunistic. The way he jumps on JX's vote post of Mr.Z is just that, scum trying to find easy things to tackle people on. I have no clue, if town, why he's willing to lynch a lurker right now if he's set on JX being scum.
##Vote: Thrawn
Hey guys, shenanigans here being sorted out. I'm down for a Thrawn lynch, he's a sheeping scummy dude right meow.
Thrawn is an Opportunist
On December 15 2012 11:11 thrawn2112 wrote:
ok
##Vote Djodref
what kind of information are you looking for?
ok
##Vote Djodref
On December 15 2012 10:26 Djodref wrote:
Other than that, I would like everybody to give a little hindsight of their game experience, especially newbies, if there are some.
Other than that, I would like everybody to give a little hindsight of their game experience, especially newbies, if there are some.
what kind of information are you looking for?
Sheep on Djodref vote, hardcore. No explanation, just does it. Also, the question he asks is self-explanatory.
On December 15 2012 12:13 thrawn2112 wrote:
I didn't th9nk hapa's case was super good but dp's reaction to it seems insane
I didn't th9nk hapa's case was super good but dp's reaction to it seems insane
Slightly discredits Hapa's case, and takes the opportunity to acknowledge that DP looks scummy after an OMGUS vote (duh). He then unvotes to keep his options open. When Hapa makes his more fortified case, he suddenly believes it's some god-given scumhunting then votes for DP.
Wait, What's this?
On December 15 2012 12:17 thrawn2112 wrote:
dp I don't think it's fair to accuse djo based on setup speculation meta because of 2 reasons
1. start of the game and everyone is lurking
2. this game doesn't have standard mechanics
dp I don't think it's fair to accuse djo based on setup speculation meta because of 2 reasons
1. start of the game and everyone is lurking
2. this game doesn't have standard mechanics
Didn't Thrawn VOTE for Djo based on this exact thing? He was being obsessed with blue roles / witchhunter and Thrawn sheeped the vote, supposedly because of this. Now he thinks it's not fair to accuse him?
On December 16 2012 10:17 thrawn2112 wrote:
oh sniped on the random lurker vote lol, sounds fun
##unvote
##Vote: Mr Cheesecake
pie is better and all you mo-fos need to start posting
oh sniped on the random lurker vote lol, sounds fun
##unvote
##Vote: Mr Cheesecake
pie is better and all you mo-fos need to start posting
Sheeps onto lurker vote opportunity. Underlined = scummiest shit ever townies like cheesecake over pie.
On December 16 2012 11:38 thrawn2112 wrote:
ok here's what I probably mean about kush...
you mention his terrible ideas... yes the things he's said he'll do this game have been crazy, but that's his meta right? this game however, it seems like they are intentionally dumb. scum kush says crazier things than town kush.
he said he's not going to lynch me no matter what... is that a joke? an actual plan? the problem is I couldn't really tell.... it's so different from town oriented thinking I don't know what to make of it. the only reason I have to suspect that town kush could possibly have said that is because he's lynched me over and over for the same reasons and I keep flipping town.
ok here's what I probably mean about kush...
you mention his terrible ideas... yes the things he's said he'll do this game have been crazy, but that's his meta right? this game however, it seems like they are intentionally dumb. scum kush says crazier things than town kush.
he said he's not going to lynch me no matter what... is that a joke? an actual plan? the problem is I couldn't really tell.... it's so different from town oriented thinking I don't know what to make of it. the only reason I have to suspect that town kush could possibly have said that is because he's lynched me over and over for the same reasons and I keep flipping town.
PROBABLY mean? What? How do you probably mean something...? Town mean things genuinely, scum try to emulate they are meaning something. The rest of this post is garbage--he comes to no read on Kush at all, just flip-flops between the possibility of town kush not wanting to lynch him and the alternative scum motivation.
Above all, Thrawn doesn't seem to care who is lynched:
On December 15 2012 11:52 thrawn2112 wrote:
this conversation between the few of us is getting very tiresome
i'll lynch lurkers
LURKERS
i will happily lynch you
this conversation between the few of us is getting very tiresome
i'll lynch lurkers
LURKERS
i will happily lynch you
Okay so he wants to lynch a lurker. By all means, a viable strategy considering the circumstance. But he also wants to lynch Djo, JX, DP... I'm confused. I don't see strong scum reads from him other than on JX due to obvious scumslips. He is sheeping a ton and doesn't seem too caring of who he wants to get lynched.
Just look at this flip-floppiness between lurker lynching and lynching his top scumread.
On December 16 2012 20:05 thrawn2112 wrote:
I suggest all town people be around during the lynch if (when?) we decide to lynch a rando lurker
I suggest all town people be around during the lynch if (when?) we decide to lynch a rando lurker
Maybe we could lynch a lurker! That sounds like a good idea!
On December 16 2012 20:41 thrawn2112 wrote:
i still really really like it
i still really really like it
But I still really really like a JX lynch!
On December 16 2012 20:42 thrawn2112 wrote:
but who knows, perhaps some lurker will die instead
but who knows, perhaps some lurker will die instead
But maybe we could lynch a lurker! I'm all for that!
Why is Thrawn so indecisive?
On December 16 2012 14:04 thrawn2112 wrote:
no this is a lie
the red parts are what I just now added to the 2nd post that would make the 1st post true. I bolded "but above all" because that implies you still hold your suspicions about hapa/dp.
J scum-slipped hard, he lied about the scumslip, he's a lurker... and he's scum
On December 16 2012 01:06 JieXian wrote:
I was out the whole day man relax. You guys didn't understand my post.
I found what Dp and hapa was saying to be weird BUT I changed my mind as I kept on reading the thread (notice how those 2 points were quite early on)
I was out the whole day man relax. You guys didn't understand my post.
I found what Dp and hapa was saying to be weird BUT I changed my mind as I kept on reading the thread (notice how those 2 points were quite early on)
no this is a lie
On December 15 2012 14:47 JieXian wrote:
Hi and sorry I'm late, I'm at +8GMT and I didn't wake up as early as DarthPunk
At first I was really confused (scummy read) about hapa's mindless babbling about 13-3, which ISN'T RELEVANT to anything at all because you can't change anything except stir the discussion towards the wrong direction. but i think he's town because x
Later I got a stronger read from DP from his ridiculous "pressuring" above all for a point that's completely moot. but now i think he's town because x
But above all there's Mr Zentor's relative non-chalance to everything seems to trump everything else as doesn't seem to give a damn to anything as townies are well on their way to lynching one another
##Vote MrZentor
Hi and sorry I'm late, I'm at +8GMT and I didn't wake up as early as DarthPunk
At first I was really confused (scummy read) about hapa's mindless babbling about 13-3, which ISN'T RELEVANT to anything at all because you can't change anything except stir the discussion towards the wrong direction. but i think he's town because x
Later I got a stronger read from DP from his ridiculous "pressuring" above all for a point that's completely moot. but now i think he's town because x
Djo why did you vote for Mr Zentor
But above all there's Mr Zentor's relative non-chalance to everything seems to trump everything else as doesn't seem to give a damn to anything as townies are well on their way to lynching one another
##Vote MrZentor
the red parts are what I just now added to the 2nd post that would make the 1st post true. I bolded "but above all" because that implies you still hold your suspicions about hapa/dp.
J scum-slipped hard, he lied about the scumslip, he's a lurker... and he's scum
He states JX is scum. THEN WHY IS HE KEEPING HIS OPTIONS OPEN LIKE THIS? Town Thrawn would want to push this JX lynch into the ground, not be ready to jump off the wagon at the last minute to lynch a lurker.
Thrawn's general posting in context of the thread seems very opportunistic. The way he jumps on JX's vote post of Mr.Z is just that, scum trying to find easy things to tackle people on. I have no clue, if town, why he's willing to lynch a lurker right now if he's set on JX being scum.
##Vote: Thrawn
While you make a decent case against Thrawn, I still think that there is more of a case against hapahauli, thus I will not change my vote.
Show nested quote +
On December 17 2012 03:06 Eywa- wrote:
It is not my first time playing mafia, it is my first time playing TL Mafia. Previous character profiles are a nuisance to the town, they generally bring people to quick and unfortunate assumptions, if someone plays a certain way 10 times and are a townie every time, why wouldn't they play the same way once they got mafia?
It's common sense... Previous knowledge can be used for serious meta-games, stay away from it.
Otherwise, it suffices to say that: I am not going to jump on someone else's band wagon just because it's a popular choice. I will remain with my vote on hapahauli. I don't believe him to be a town.
It is not my first time playing mafia, it is my first time playing TL Mafia. Previous character profiles are a nuisance to the town, they generally bring people to quick and unfortunate assumptions, if someone plays a certain way 10 times and are a townie every time, why wouldn't they play the same way once they got mafia?
It's common sense... Previous knowledge can be used for serious meta-games, stay away from it.
Otherwise, it suffices to say that: I am not going to jump on someone else's band wagon just because it's a popular choice. I will remain with my vote on hapahauli. I don't believe him to be a town.
Show nested quote +
On December 17 2012 05:16 Eywa- wrote:
He's randomly hopped onto about 5-6 people willy nilly just because it sounds like a good idea at the time, I'd get rid of him (as I've said from my first post, my mind hasn't changed and there is nothing that has been posted that seems more accusation worthy than how he's hopped around).
On December 17 2012 05:14 MrZentor wrote:
Eywa isn't scum.
-.-
Eywa isn't scum.
-.-
He's randomly hopped onto about 5-6 people willy nilly just because it sounds like a good idea at the time, I'd get rid of him (as I've said from my first post, my mind hasn't changed and there is nothing that has been posted that seems more accusation worthy than how he's hopped around).
Look at all the above posts. He's not trying to get me lynched. He's trying tell everyone "Hey! I have a reason to vote this guy!"
The ONLY time he ever attempts to get other people to lynch me is the following:
Show nested quote +
On December 17 2012 05:53 Eywa- wrote:
You're not helping yourself... Please guys, sway your votes.
On December 17 2012 05:43 Hapahauli wrote:
Oh this is getting rediculous.
1) Everyone's a lurker in the beginning of the game. I pressured anyone who was around 'cause thats all I can do. How the hell do you pressure someone who hasn't posted yet in the first 3 hours? So I pressured DP and Djo. They are now my strongest townreads.
This is a straight-up lie. I've voted kush (when he was a lurker, and the reason he's not is because of MY tunneling of him). I've voted JieXian (when he was lurky, and he still kinda is), I've pressured Draz, and I've voted for your lurky-ass. You're failing to account for the state of the game when I placed my votes.
"Fact" 1) I haven't "jumped" on any bandwagon. In fact I've been a bandwagon starter. I tunnel people until they convince me they're town or scum.
"Fact" 2) It's not a lie, you're just screaming it is
"Fact" 3) Yes, what's your point? That's how scumhunting works.
Well I'll probably be dead after N1, it's not going to last too long.
On December 17 2012 05:34 Eywa- wrote:
This has nothing to do with the timing, this has to do with your claim (which is a lie)... YOU said that you called out lurkers with votes so that they'd post...
Q: Were they against lurkers?
A: No
On December 17 2012 05:28 Hapahauli wrote:
Are you an idiot? Those votes were within the first 3 hours of the game.
Are you an idiot? Those votes were within the first 3 hours of the game.
This has nothing to do with the timing, this has to do with your claim (which is a lie)... YOU said that you called out lurkers with votes so that they'd post...
Q: Were they against lurkers?
A: No
Oh this is getting rediculous.
1) Everyone's a lurker in the beginning of the game. I pressured anyone who was around 'cause thats all I can do. How the hell do you pressure someone who hasn't posted yet in the first 3 hours? So I pressured DP and Djo. They are now my strongest townreads.
You've never voted against a lurker and your entire I'm innocent because story has just fallen to shreds through your own ignorance of past actions you've committed.
This is a straight-up lie. I've voted kush (when he was a lurker, and the reason he's not is because of MY tunneling of him). I've voted JieXian (when he was lurky, and he still kinda is), I've pressured Draz, and I've voted for your lurky-ass. You're failing to account for the state of the game when I placed my votes.
Fact: You've jumped from band wagon to band wagon
Fact: You lied about a story that would justify the band wagon hopping.
Fact: You've directly accused anyone who's ever accused you just because "they have yet to justify why they're not guilty"
Fact: You lied about a story that would justify the band wagon hopping.
Fact: You've directly accused anyone who's ever accused you just because "they have yet to justify why they're not guilty"
"Fact" 1) I haven't "jumped" on any bandwagon. In fact I've been a bandwagon starter. I tunnel people until they convince me they're town or scum.
"Fact" 2) It's not a lie, you're just screaming it is
"Fact" 3) Yes, what's your point? That's how scumhunting works.
You're tracking on very thin ice here, you've been pointing fingers all game, I've kept my eye fixed on the game and I've come to one conclusion at every turn.
Well I'll probably be dead after N1, it's not going to last too long.
You're not helping yourself... Please guys, sway your votes.
Look at that weak-ass shit. "Please guys, sway your votes." This coming from the guy who is foaming at the mouth that I am scum.
#4: Eywa's Post-Lynch Anger
Eywa made this post a couple of hours before the deadline...
... which struck me as really odd for it's pessimism.
So what does town Eywa- do when he thinks townies are going to the gallows and he's convinced I'm scum? NOTHING!
That's right! Nothing! While the town scrambles to put together a lynch at the last minute, this is what he does in the last 25 minutes:
Show nested quote +
On December 17 2012 05:38 Eywa- wrote:
I didn't intend to, if it happened, I apologize.
On December 17 2012 05:32 drazak wrote:
Just got back to reading the thread. WTF. You edited your post?! Please read the rules. No editing of posts allowed.
On December 16 2012 23:57 Eywa- wrote:
I fully intend on posting ;; I was out yesterday, no chance to post or read. Also, I've already pretty much done everything I am going to do for BW, just a couple details left to sort out, but that definitely won't be consuming my time.
On December 16 2012 23:55 JieXian wrote:
eywa I know you are doing something great for BW but I'd like you to post more and play the game more since you're already in it
eywa I know you are doing something great for BW but I'd like you to post more and play the game more since you're already in it
I fully intend on posting ;; I was out yesterday, no chance to post or read. Also, I've already pretty much done everything I am going to do for BW, just a couple details left to sort out, but that definitely won't be consuming my time.
Just got back to reading the thread. WTF. You edited your post?! Please read the rules. No editing of posts allowed.
I didn't intend to, if it happened, I apologize.
Show nested quote +
On December 17 2012 05:53 Eywa- wrote:
You're not helping yourself... Please guys, sway your votes.
On December 17 2012 05:43 Hapahauli wrote:
Oh this is getting rediculous.
1) Everyone's a lurker in the beginning of the game. I pressured anyone who was around 'cause thats all I can do. How the hell do you pressure someone who hasn't posted yet in the first 3 hours? So I pressured DP and Djo. They are now my strongest townreads.
This is a straight-up lie. I've voted kush (when he was a lurker, and the reason he's not is because of MY tunneling of him). I've voted JieXian (when he was lurky, and he still kinda is), I've pressured Draz, and I've voted for your lurky-ass. You're failing to account for the state of the game when I placed my votes.
"Fact" 1) I haven't "jumped" on any bandwagon. In fact I've been a bandwagon starter. I tunnel people until they convince me they're town or scum.
"Fact" 2) It's not a lie, you're just screaming it is
"Fact" 3) Yes, what's your point? That's how scumhunting works.
Well I'll probably be dead after N1, it's not going to last too long.
On December 17 2012 05:34 Eywa- wrote:
This has nothing to do with the timing, this has to do with your claim (which is a lie)... YOU said that you called out lurkers with votes so that they'd post...
Q: Were they against lurkers?
A: No
On December 17 2012 05:28 Hapahauli wrote:
Are you an idiot? Those votes were within the first 3 hours of the game.
Are you an idiot? Those votes were within the first 3 hours of the game.
This has nothing to do with the timing, this has to do with your claim (which is a lie)... YOU said that you called out lurkers with votes so that they'd post...
Q: Were they against lurkers?
A: No
Oh this is getting rediculous.
1) Everyone's a lurker in the beginning of the game. I pressured anyone who was around 'cause thats all I can do. How the hell do you pressure someone who hasn't posted yet in the first 3 hours? So I pressured DP and Djo. They are now my strongest townreads.
You've never voted against a lurker and your entire I'm innocent because story has just fallen to shreds through your own ignorance of past actions you've committed.
This is a straight-up lie. I've voted kush (when he was a lurker, and the reason he's not is because of MY tunneling of him). I've voted JieXian (when he was lurky, and he still kinda is), I've pressured Draz, and I've voted for your lurky-ass. You're failing to account for the state of the game when I placed my votes.
Fact: You've jumped from band wagon to band wagon
Fact: You lied about a story that would justify the band wagon hopping.
Fact: You've directly accused anyone who's ever accused you just because "they have yet to justify why they're not guilty"
Fact: You lied about a story that would justify the band wagon hopping.
Fact: You've directly accused anyone who's ever accused you just because "they have yet to justify why they're not guilty"
"Fact" 1) I haven't "jumped" on any bandwagon. In fact I've been a bandwagon starter. I tunnel people until they convince me they're town or scum.
"Fact" 2) It's not a lie, you're just screaming it is
"Fact" 3) Yes, what's your point? That's how scumhunting works.
You're tracking on very thin ice here, you've been pointing fingers all game, I've kept my eye fixed on the game and I've come to one conclusion at every turn.
Well I'll probably be dead after N1, it's not going to last too long.
You're not helping yourself... Please guys, sway your votes.
He apologizes, half-ass pushes his suspicions against me, and peaces out. Then after doing jack shit about preventing the mislynch, he goes and does this:
Show nested quote +
On December 17 2012 06:09 Eywa- wrote:
Q: Which townie predicted this?
A: Eywa-
I'd like to thank the other civilians for not realising that there are 3 scum and that the votes simply had a very low % chance of adding up to Morbidius being a mafia member.
Q: Which townie predicted this?
A: Eywa-
I'd like to thank the other civilians for not realising that there are 3 scum and that the votes simply had a very low % chance of adding up to Morbidius being a mafia member.
HERP DERP ALL YOU GUYS SUCK I AM AWESOME 'CAUSE I PREDICTED THIS AND DID NOTHING TO STOP IT.
In conclusion, lynch Eywa- tomorrow. He's pushing mafia objectives, he has no case against me, he didn't push said case against me, and his post-lynch anger is the scummiest thing I've seen in this thread.
Show me why you thing this case is wrong.
He should defend himself I don't like making assumptions on how his thought process works beacuse I can only imagine part of it.
I'll just say that there wasn't anything wrong with post lynch anger because it was based on his READ on morb.
hapa's complainig that he (hapa) was ignored doesn't say anything because he's been ignoring my questions since yesterday
Show nested quote +
He apologizes, half-ass pushes his suspicions against me, and peaces out. Then after doing jack shit about preventing the mislynch, he goes and does this:
Funny how hapa doesn't see how I was preventing the mislynch lol and was questioning me
HAPA YOU made the "mislynch"
address that
hapa's been ignoring anything that makes sense for the town... Examples which come to mind are how he basically ignored all of the pleads which people had about morb being innocent and claimed "WE HAVE A MAJORITY, FINISH HIM!"...
