EPTWitchcraft Mini Mafia - Page 104
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kushm4sta
United States8878 Posts
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
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kushm4sta
United States8878 Posts
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
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Mr. Cheesecake
United States3756 Posts
INCEPTION | ||
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kushm4sta
United States8878 Posts
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MrZentor
United States1648 Posts
Because I'm all townie and stuff. | ||
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
On December 21 2012 06:05 kushm4sta wrote: mostly because im still writing it lol Give me the cliffs. I need more than 15 minutes to pull a 180 on a town read dawg. And I really doubt that I'm going to change my mind. | ||
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ghost_403
United States1825 Posts
Zentor and Hapa are confirmed town. There has been no attempt to discredit their status in thread, so I don't see any reason to disbelieve this. MrZ is probably dead tonight, which is unfortunate, but so it goes. I'm 90% sure that Djodref is town. I looked through his case on JX. I can't see him putting forward that much effort to try and get someone lynched as scum. Perhaps someone can enlighten me based on his past games, but I believe him to be town at this point. Kush is probably town and just bad. I'm positive I'm not dying tonight (no one NKs the new guy), so I'll spend the rest of tomorrow really examining this play to make sure that I'm reading him right. Currently, this is more of a gut feeling rather than anything else. JX looks scummy to me, simply based on what Djo pushed in his case. Given a bullet, I'd shoot him. If he flipped town, I would probably spend the next cycle pushing Djo as scum. That leaves Eywa and MrCC. MrCC seems abrasive and forward in the thread, but not terribly contributory. I can see him going either way. I would flip him later than Eywa. Eywa has been gone since I got into the thread. That makes him kind of hard to read, but by process of elimination, I'd lynch him. | ||
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kushm4sta
United States8878 Posts
I'm going to make this meta comparison easy for you guys: here is a d1 megapost from town djo: So this a djo case as town. TOWM + Show Spoiler + On November 04 2012 14:07 Djodref wrote: I'm betting that you didn't really notice him because this guys is sure blending in First of all, I would like to say that Clarity is non-committal with his reads. Please have a look at the different posts in the following spoiler. + Show Spoiler + + Show Spoiler + On November 03 2012 18:43 Clarity_nl wrote: I don't think it's directed at you specifically, but it's interesting that you think it is. The reason Cheese said to not drop the newbie card is because it's not town behavior. When you are town you want people to believe you, if you come out of the gate saying you're awful and no one should listen to you then that's anti-town. It also prevents scum from using "omg sorry I'm just new!", the less excuses scum have available the better for town. My reads at this point in time: Obzy: Leaning slightly town. He hasn't quite come out of his shell yet but he seems genuinly interested in discussion and progressing. @ Obzy Do you think you can get over this "I'm new" thing and give us the best reads you've got? Instead of posting something that's obvious to everyone perhaps post something that stands out to you. _ Rad: Null. He's being more careful than last game, lurking a bit more. He mentioned he would be more careful, but not in pregame, he did this after the role PMs were sent. He also seems really invested in helping Obzy out as he's the newest, the only one here who wasn't in XXIX. @ Rad Why the interest in Obzy? Are you going to use MLG as an excuse at any point this weekend? _ Alsn: Leaning slightly scum, very little info about him though. He opened super aggressive this game, which is the opposite of how he played in the majority of XXIX. Perhaps the only reason he snapped at debears so hard is because debears said @ Alsn Why the change in behavior from last game? What do you think of debears at this point? _ Mr Cheesecake: Null. He went SUPER defensive when he was called out about making a ton of jokes, but that discussion got blown way out of proportion. The fact that he's acting more like the way he was in mafia QT XXIX than in the actual XXIX thread is indicative of town. @ Cheese You did have some jokes in the XXIX thread. Can you tell us if these were jokes for the sake of jokes or if you used them to push a scum agenda? An argument can be made for both. _ Djodref: Leaning slightly scum, He was obsessed with policy. Everyone was ready to move on but he kept mentioning it over and over. He's also the person that blew up the whole *Cheese's scum joke* thing, which bogged us down for a couple of pages. @ Djodref If you had to lynch someone right now, would it be da0ud or someone else? _ Debears: Null. Regardless of if he's scum or town, he is getting the ball rolling which is good for us. Problem is... that was what he was doing in XXIX as well and he was scum in that. Older games suggest this is simply his meta so there is no read to be made about his opening. What I'm curious about is if he's going to pull a vanishing act in D2 / D3 again. @ Debears What's your ready on Obzy? _ Sylverfire: Null. Only have 3 real posts to read him on. He opened really aggressive onto debears, even though he's keeping the ball rolling, an odd choice. He showed up way late but Rad pointed out that he is sticking to the same schedule he's had in previous games. @ Sylverfire You've only shared your read on debears, is there anything else that stands out to you? _ So with all that said, I only have two slight scumreads on Alsn and Djo, so I hope they defend themselves as soon as possible. Even if we end up lynching da0ud for lurking, currently with 0 posts, we can at least gather as much information as possible Hopefully this gets some discussion going, please comment on as much as possible in my post and point out any flaws. Do no avoid answering the questions I addressed to you, it would be a very scummy thing to do. This post is full of null reads or slight reads, it speaks for itself. On November 03 2012 21:39 Clarity_nl wrote: My two weak scumreads are still you and Alsn, but that's what they are... weak. My post is simply to gather as much info as possible. I will end up making a case before the day is over, but I figured giving this thread a good kick would help. Weak scumreads on Alsn on me On November 04 2012 04:38 Clarity_nl wrote: <snip> I am no longer suspect of Alsn, at least not as much. Although he seems to have a hard on for debears and djo he's making decent points and trying to further conversation. Debears... I'm not quite sure. The stubbornness about sylver's post where he said he has a lot of fluff really shouldn't have been that big of a deal, he just couldn't let it go. Maybe Rad is on to something. Drops Alsn and is wishy washy about debears Then Clarity is also using double-standards, he has being reproaching Rad not to scumhunt but have you seen Clarity scumhunting ? You might argue that he has put pressure on daoud but he has conveniently done it while it was Saturday night in Hong Kong. And given daoud lurky habits, it's an easy target to attack. Clarity has been defensive when I was trying to give him advice after his post with his reads. The point I really don't like in his reaction is the fact that he said that he didn't make a list. Regarding the plurality lynch, we have individually to focus on our scum reads but town in general should not focus on only two players. By the way, you have failed to put pressure on me or Alsn, but we were your scum reads. In conclusion FoS Clarity Now this is this game's equivalent: SCUM + Show Spoiler + On December 16 2012 12:50 Djodref wrote: JieXan First of all, I liked DYH latest case against him + Show Spoiler [for reference] + On December 16 2012 07:32 DoYouHas wrote: @DP - I think the optimal way to play is to do our best to get the witch hunter to miss. Losing 2 townies, good or bad, is always worse than losing 1. I don't think this is going to convince you, so I'm not going to bring it up again. I'm feeling more comfortable with my vote on JX right now. His initial post was rather scummy, the thing to note about it is that it looks constructed (the phrases used when talking about hapa and MrZ, "mindless babbling" & "relative non-chalance". What makes me think he is scum is the progression of his pushing MrZ. A behavior read. An unsupported meta read with some WIFOM. Finally providing support for his meta read. Not conclusive enough considering he is ignoring paranoia (MrZ's most recent town game). This reads like he is trying to justify his stance on MrZ after the fact. Instead of finding MrZ scummy and looking into him, the presenting good reasons to vote him, JX voted him, then went in search of the reasons when pressured. This strikes me as scummy. I already pointed out how his first post feels constructed, and if that is true and he spent time on that post, why didn't he spend time backing up his vote on MrZ right from the start? Here is how he entered the thread casually spreading suspicion over Hapa and DP. His point against Hapa is not so bad, but it's kind of nit picky. I'll pass him this one because I was really startled when Hapa brought it. On the other hand, his points against DP and Zentor are bad. Regarding DP, in the early game, you have to pressure people for some trivia, and pressuring people is more a townie behavior than a mafia behavior, even if it's not totally true for DP. The main point here is that he calls them townies in the same post. That's just a scumslip. because this refers to Hapa and DP. So he enters the thread by spreading suspicion on them but calling them townies when he votes finally MrZ. So either he has a townread on them, in this case the first suspicions and points against them are totally useless and unwarranted for, either he is a mafia player that knows their alignment. Let's take a look at the rest of his filter to decide what is more likely. He doesn't really comment on the fact that he called them townies. And now he said that they were saying weird things, and not scummy things. And then just proceeds to tunnel MrZ, which has not given us so much to work from. Right now, I think that JieXan has the most chances to flip scum. Hence my vote. ##Vote Jiexan READ BOTH there is a distinct difference. Even though he is incorrect in the town post, there is a lot more certainty in the tone of the case. Town djo thinks his cases are right. Scum djo knows they are wrong. | ||
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
On December 21 2012 06:08 ghost_403 wrote: GF is coming over shortly, and I'm not convinced I'll get back before the end of the night, so I'll just throw that out there. Zentor and Hapa are confirmed town. There has been no attempt to discredit their status in thread, so I don't see any reason to disbelieve this. MrZ is probably dead tonight, which is unfortunate, but so it goes. I'm 90% sure that Djodref is town. I looked through his case on JX. I can't see him putting forward that much effort to try and get someone lynched as scum. Perhaps someone can enlighten me based on his past games, but I believe him to be town at this point. Kush is probably town and just bad. I'm positive I'm not dying tonight (no one NKs the new guy), so I'll spend the rest of tomorrow really examining this play to make sure that I'm reading him right. Currently, this is more of a gut feeling rather than anything else. JX looks scummy to me, simply based on what Djo pushed in his case. Given a bullet, I'd shoot him. If he flipped town, I would probably spend the next cycle pushing Djo as scum. That leaves Eywa and MrCC. MrCC seems abrasive and forward in the thread, but not terribly contributory. I can see him going either way. I would flip him later than Eywa. Eywa has been gone since I got into the thread. That makes him kind of hard to read, but by process of elimination, I'd lynch him. Bolded is some pretty sketchy stuff. | ||
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kushm4sta
United States8878 Posts
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
On December 21 2012 06:10 kushm4sta wrote: PART 1 (more parts inc.) I'm going to make this meta comparison easy for you guys: here is a d1 megapost from town djo: So this a djo case as town. TOWM + Show Spoiler + On November 04 2012 14:07 Djodref wrote: I'm betting that you didn't really notice him because this guys is sure blending in First of all, I would like to say that Clarity is non-committal with his reads. Please have a look at the different posts in the following spoiler. + Show Spoiler + + Show Spoiler + On November 03 2012 18:43 Clarity_nl wrote: I don't think it's directed at you specifically, but it's interesting that you think it is. The reason Cheese said to not drop the newbie card is because it's not town behavior. When you are town you want people to believe you, if you come out of the gate saying you're awful and no one should listen to you then that's anti-town. It also prevents scum from using "omg sorry I'm just new!", the less excuses scum have available the better for town. My reads at this point in time: Obzy: Leaning slightly town. He hasn't quite come out of his shell yet but he seems genuinly interested in discussion and progressing. @ Obzy Do you think you can get over this "I'm new" thing and give us the best reads you've got? Instead of posting something that's obvious to everyone perhaps post something that stands out to you. _ Rad: Null. He's being more careful than last game, lurking a bit more. He mentioned he would be more careful, but not in pregame, he did this after the role PMs were sent. He also seems really invested in helping Obzy out as he's the newest, the only one here who wasn't in XXIX. @ Rad Why the interest in Obzy? Are you going to use MLG as an excuse at any point this weekend? _ Alsn: Leaning slightly scum, very little info about him though. He opened super aggressive this game, which is the opposite of how he played in the majority of XXIX. Perhaps the only reason he snapped at debears so hard is because debears said @ Alsn Why the change in behavior from last game? What do you think of debears at this point? _ Mr Cheesecake: Null. He went SUPER defensive when he was called out about making a ton of jokes, but that discussion got blown way out of proportion. The fact that he's acting more like the way he was in mafia QT XXIX than in the actual XXIX thread is indicative of town. @ Cheese You did have some jokes in the XXIX thread. Can you tell us if these were jokes for the sake of jokes or if you used them to push a scum agenda? An argument can be made for both. _ Djodref: Leaning slightly scum, He was obsessed with policy. Everyone was ready to move on but he kept mentioning it over and over. He's also the person that blew up the whole *Cheese's scum joke* thing, which bogged us down for a couple of pages. @ Djodref If you had to lynch someone right now, would it be da0ud or someone else? _ Debears: Null. Regardless of if he's scum or town, he is getting the ball rolling which is good for us. Problem is... that was what he was doing in XXIX as well and he was scum in that. Older games suggest this is simply his meta so there is no read to be made about his opening. What I'm curious about is if he's going to pull a vanishing act in D2 / D3 again. @ Debears What's your ready on Obzy? _ Sylverfire: Null. Only have 3 real posts to read him on. He opened really aggressive onto debears, even though he's keeping the ball rolling, an odd choice. He showed up way late but Rad pointed out that he is sticking to the same schedule he's had in previous games. @ Sylverfire You've only shared your read on debears, is there anything else that stands out to you? _ So with all that said, I only have two slight scumreads on Alsn and Djo, so I hope they defend themselves as soon as possible. Even if we end up lynching da0ud for lurking, currently with 0 posts, we can at least gather as much information as possible Hopefully this gets some discussion going, please comment on as much as possible in my post and point out any flaws. Do no avoid answering the questions I addressed to you, it would be a very scummy thing to do. This post is full of null reads or slight reads, it speaks for itself. On November 03 2012 21:39 Clarity_nl wrote: My two weak scumreads are still you and Alsn, but that's what they are... weak. My post is simply to gather as much info as possible. I will end up making a case before the day is over, but I figured giving this thread a good kick would help. Weak scumreads on Alsn on me On November 04 2012 04:38 Clarity_nl wrote: <snip> I am no longer suspect of Alsn, at least not as much. Although he seems to have a hard on for debears and djo he's making decent points and trying to further conversation. Debears... I'm not quite sure. The stubbornness about sylver's post where he said he has a lot of fluff really shouldn't have been that big of a deal, he just couldn't let it go. Maybe Rad is on to something. Drops Alsn and is wishy washy about debears Then Clarity is also using double-standards, he has being reproaching Rad not to scumhunt but have you seen Clarity scumhunting ? You might argue that he has put pressure on daoud but he has conveniently done it while it was Saturday night in Hong Kong. And given daoud lurky habits, it's an easy target to attack. Clarity has been defensive when I was trying to give him advice after his post with his reads. The point I really don't like in his reaction is the fact that he said that he didn't make a list. Regarding the plurality lynch, we have individually to focus on our scum reads but town in general should not focus on only two players. By the way, you have failed to put pressure on me or Alsn, but we were your scum reads. In conclusion FoS Clarity Now this is this game's equivalent: SCUM + Show Spoiler + On December 16 2012 12:50 Djodref wrote: JieXan First of all, I liked DYH latest case against him + Show Spoiler [for reference] + On December 16 2012 07:32 DoYouHas wrote: @DP - I think the optimal way to play is to do our best to get the witch hunter to miss. Losing 2 townies, good or bad, is always worse than losing 1. I don't think this is going to convince you, so I'm not going to bring it up again. I'm feeling more comfortable with my vote on JX right now. His initial post was rather scummy, the thing to note about it is that it looks constructed (the phrases used when talking about hapa and MrZ, "mindless babbling" & "relative non-chalance". What makes me think he is scum is the progression of his pushing MrZ. A behavior read. An unsupported meta read with some WIFOM. Finally providing support for his meta read. Not conclusive enough considering he is ignoring paranoia (MrZ's most recent town game). This reads like he is trying to justify his stance on MrZ after the fact. Instead of finding MrZ scummy and looking into him, the presenting good reasons to vote him, JX voted him, then went in search of the reasons when pressured. This strikes me as scummy. I already pointed out how his first post feels constructed, and if that is true and he spent time on that post, why didn't he spend time backing up his vote on MrZ right from the start? Here is how he entered the thread casually spreading suspicion over Hapa and DP. His point against Hapa is not so bad, but it's kind of nit picky. I'll pass him this one because I was really startled when Hapa brought it. On the other hand, his points against DP and Zentor are bad. Regarding DP, in the early game, you have to pressure people for some trivia, and pressuring people is more a townie behavior than a mafia behavior, even if it's not totally true for DP. The main point here is that he calls them townies in the same post. That's just a scumslip. because this refers to Hapa and DP. So he enters the thread by spreading suspicion on them but calling them townies when he votes finally MrZ. So either he has a townread on them, in this case the first suspicions and points against them are totally useless and unwarranted for, either he is a mafia player that knows their alignment. Let's take a look at the rest of his filter to decide what is more likely. He doesn't really comment on the fact that he called them townies. And now he said that they were saying weird things, and not scummy things. And then just proceeds to tunnel MrZ, which has not given us so much to work from. Right now, I think that JieXan has the most chances to flip scum. Hence my vote. ##Vote Jiexan READ BOTH there is a distinct difference. Even though he is incorrect in the town post, there is a lot more certainty in the tone of the case. Town djo thinks his cases are right. Scum djo knows they are wrong. Already I can tell you two problems with this: 1) You're comparing his second newbie game to this game, when his playstyle (and confidence) have evolved greatly 2) Also, you mention that "scum Djo knows his case is wrong"... where on earth are you getting that from? | ||
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kushm4sta
United States8878 Posts
the town game was the last game he got town (not counting chrono because that game was fucked) | ||
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Mr. Cheesecake
United States3756 Posts
Also, he's flammed with Eywa and wants to lynch JX and Draz... who's his scumbud?. | ||
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kushm4sta
United States8878 Posts
last game i was sure DP was scum but everyone thought I was wrong and told me to stfu, so i did. BUT I WAS RIGHT | ||
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
On December 21 2012 06:15 kushm4sta wrote: when he's scum he knows his case is wrong. the town game was the last game he got town (not counting chrono because that game was fucked) Yes, but WHY? You can say he knows his case is wrong, but like what about his case indicates that? From his last scumgame (mario mini): http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=381440&user=284165 He does 99% less scumhunting than he's currently done. | ||
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kushm4sta
United States8878 Posts
On December 21 2012 06:16 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: Kush, I don't much like meta cases to begin with, but the comparison of the two cases reads kinda null for me. The second post does seem to use a few more 'buts' and 'kind ofs' but still has that strong overtone where he bolds stuff like weird and scummy. Also, he's flammed with Eywa and wants to lynch JX and Draz... who's his scumbud?. show me a game where scum dont fake flame each other. Scum need to do this esp as the game gets smaller. | ||
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kushm4sta
United States8878 Posts
Djo's behavior gets scummier and scummier the closer to the lynch it is. This is about d1 lynch: On December 16 2012 13:46 Djodref wrote: For the moment, I want to lynch JieXan today. I wouldn't mind lynching MrZ or Kush as well, but I'm less confident in these lynches. If we cannot consolidate on them, we have to lynch a lurker/inactive player. Here are now my candidates to a policy lynch
So he is ok with lynching SEVEN people. Basically everyone except DYH ofc. | ||
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