EPTNewbie Mini Mafia XXXII
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Arnarnion
Canada39 Posts
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Arnarnion
Canada39 Posts
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Arnarnion
Canada39 Posts
1) I haven't played a game yet, but I did obs XXXII 2) I am of the opinion that lynches should be saved for top scum reads and that removing inactive players might not be as productive for town as it is for scum, since were just doing their work for them. 3)(Oats)- Don't give me none of that pie or cheesecake, the only true dessert is ice cream. (CC)- Green. | ||
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Arnarnion
Canada39 Posts
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Arnarnion
Canada39 Posts
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Arnarnion
Canada39 Posts
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Arnarnion
Canada39 Posts
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Arnarnion
Canada39 Posts
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Arnarnion
Canada39 Posts
On December 04 2012 12:45 Kickstart wrote: ##FoS yamato Badgering people then voting them when they ignore his badgering ...and then following question to the thread... On December 04 2012 12:47 Kickstart wrote: I may be too early to jump the gun on thinking yamato is being scummy, but I haven't liked his incessant policy talk and now he just jumps on someone who he is badgering. Thoughts everyone? ...have both seemed iffy to me. It's like he wants the attention to be on Yam but requires the rest of us to have input to actually provide a case on him. Seems a little scummy to me. I might also just be paranoid. | ||
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Arnarnion
Canada39 Posts
I'm also a little concerned about how into the game Axle was at the beginning before the game actually went underway, as opposed to how withdrawn he has been about answering peoples question since stuff got moving, but I'm willing to chalk that up to first game discomfort, I know I'm feeling it. Kinda sucks having an inactive thread (of which I have been guilty of) because I can't make reads on a good chunk of the players | ||
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Arnarnion
Canada39 Posts
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Arnarnion
Canada39 Posts
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Arnarnion
Canada39 Posts
On December 04 2012 14:24 Kickstart wrote: For example I FoSd Yamato because I don't like much his actions up to this point. It was mostly that what he was doing didn't sit well with me therefor I pointed out what I didn't like and asked others about it. Just the fact that to me he seemed really incessant with his policy talks and then just immediately threw a vote on someone when they didn't answer him. My reaction was just a gut reaction but to figure out if I think it is scummy or not I need to look through his dialogue and try and figure out his intentions, but I wanted to see what others thought about it if anything. It looks here as if he's saying "I'm suspicious and I will, at some point, look at Oats for actual evidence, but until then can you guys come up with a reason for why he might be scum?" It might just be lazy town actions, but I feel like if Kick was actually suspicious of Oat's actions he should actually try to pursue that suspicion. Asking towns feelings about something before offering your own concrete opinion seems pretty scummy to me | ||
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Arnarnion
Canada39 Posts
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Arnarnion
Canada39 Posts
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Arnarnion
Canada39 Posts
First with regards to Yam Man, I have a bit of town read on him based mainly on the way he has been approaching the game by asking questions, even if they have been aggressive. This style of play seems to be harsh but information driven town play since it is actually creating an environment where conversation can actually move forward. This should be obvious given the fact we are still talking about it. If his move against Axle was scum motivated, to what end? He would possibly get Axle lynched and then be cast into immediate suspicion on D2, since he would called out for pushing a mis-lynch. This question oriented play style promotes clarity of peoples intentions, which is ultimate of town's goals In contrast, all of Dickstart's actions have seemed to be aimed towards stalling the game. First, and I've made this point a couple of times, his wishy washy approach to pointing FoS on Yam Man did not help players understand the possible intentions. The fact that he put suspicion on Yam without trying to ask Yam why he acted the way he did does not provide information from Yam on whether he is scum or not. Kick did not ask for Yam's opinion on the accusation and instead attempted to get our reads on Yam without really committing to his own. Why would a town do this? This seems like a very scummy play, trying to get a case on player moving the conversation forward without actually providing any strong evidence on why that player is scum and fishing for scum reads from the rest of town to get that player lynched. As for his case: On December 04 2012 15:59 Kickstart wrote: Right, I know it is early in the game but I am just going to throw this out there and try to make it as comprehensive as I can to try and get some real conversation going. So far I have some suspicions on Yamato and Rad. (I will also note that as an aside that Rad defended Yamato against one of my questions but association cases are bad day 1, just interesting that there are two people I find suspicious and one is defending the other.) Yamato77 As I have stated before, I find Yamato's incessant policy talk a bit suspicious and that was the first thing to draw my attention to him. I have to look at it and see what his possible intentions could be. As town, policy talk is ok to start with, but I think it is best to say what needs to be said and not dwell on it much, where as scum would try and drown the thread with as much policy talk as possible as it is really unlikely to gain any useful information from it. Taking a look at Yamato's filter shows that most of it is policy talk and then he has an exchange with Axl. Now on his points against Axl I am in agreement. Axl is posting way too much in the way of "I am a noob and everyone else here is better than me" and things of that sort, and I too expect this to end. But I am not sure if the way Yamato reacted to this is town oriented. I can't help but feel that from a town perspective, someone would be a bit more helpful and not putting so much pressure on him and then throwing a vote on him when he doesn't respond. To elaborate a bit: So far Axl is putting out this vibe of being a noobie. Now I won't say town or scum because he is not doing a great job of answering questions and is really posting way too much about how noobie he thinks he is. To me, a town would look at this and react by first encouraging Axl but then pushing him slightly. A good example would be to give some support but to remind him that he needs to just post what he is thinking and why for the sake of town clarity. Here is my post directed at Axl: I gave as much support as I could but I also made it clear that it is important for Axl to post what he is thinking and why; and note that other players reacted in much the same way as I did. Now look at the way Yamato reacts to Axl: This is almost the exact opposite reaction that I and pretty much everyone else in the thread have displayed in regards to Axl. Yamato is being really aggressive (I used the term badgering earlier). He doesn't see that there is a timid first timer and try and be encouraging but productive, he instead seems to try and take this opportunity to attack and throw his vote onto a noobie town. Here he attacks Yam's use of pressure, which as I've already stated, seems to be more of a town play than scum. Also, going after weaker noobs is more indicative of a town looking for answers, and a scum player would be more focused on targeting noobs who were playing scummily. Kick also gives HIMSELF as an example of proper treatment of confused noobs, which basically says "Hey, guys look at what a good town I am!! I'm not picking on poor defenseless Axle, and anyone who does is clearly scum!" This is a shit argument since it only says that players who play nice are town and players who are jerks are clearly scum, and by the way, Kick plays nice and thus must be town. I fear it comes from a mischievous scum looking to get a mislynch on a semi-suspicious player than from a concerned town and so I'm going to go ahead and ##Vote Kickstart | ||
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Arnarnion
Canada39 Posts
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Arnarnion
Canada39 Posts
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Arnarnion
Canada39 Posts
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Arnarnion
Canada39 Posts
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Arnarnion
Canada39 Posts
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Arnarnion
Canada39 Posts
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Arnarnion
Canada39 Posts
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Arnarnion
Canada39 Posts
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Arnarnion
Canada39 Posts
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Arnarnion
Canada39 Posts
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Arnarnion
Canada39 Posts
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Arnarnion
Canada39 Posts
Are there any counter claims? | ||
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Arnarnion
Canada39 Posts
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Arnarnion
Canada39 Posts
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Arnarnion
Canada39 Posts
I took that vote off because it seemed like the fight between Kick and Oats was getting pretty heated and I felt that being in the middle of it was clouding who I thought was scum and who wasn't, and that possibly could have been because it was two town going at each other while scum sat back and watched, which I was evidently wrong about. I later did change my vote onto Sylencia because I still wasn't sure that either Kick or Oats were scum and so I went with what was my strongest scum read which was Sylencia at the time. As we got closer to the deadline and the possibility of a no lynch, which would reveal no new information on any players due to the lack of a flip, I realized that since Rad was going to stick with Oats, Axle kept playing his own game, and Yam kept forcing his opinion that we should get rid of Axle, if there was going to be a lynch I was going to have to abandon my not incredibly strong read on Sylencia and vote Oats. I did it for a bad reason, because Oats wasn't a particularly strong scum read for me, but I did it so that something could be gained at the end of the day that would hopefully help us find scum. | ||
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Arnarnion
Canada39 Posts
But enough of my excuses, I'm going to look through the thread right now, but is there any current topics of controversy that you guys would like me to address? | ||
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Arnarnion
Canada39 Posts
With regards to jidolboy, I don't really know, he hasn't offered a lot of to the conversation (of which I am also guilty) and his recurring quick response time to requests of his presence looks bad given how little he says. But I also think that these are more examples of an uncomfortable newb player than scum, because wouldn't scum be vocal if attention was being brought to their scumminess and be trying to sway the towns opinion away from looking at them? I think he's just new and uncomfortable but I could be wrong. I really find Axle a confusing influence on discussion in the game, I really can't say whether or not he's scum, and I think if no consensus can be reached on who is scum today, that he should be the one to go. Because honestly, he says a lot without stimulating much clearly useful discussion to finding scum. I would like some explanation on why everyone seems so comfortable calling Yamato town at this point, though. Given his behavior of solely providing one read all of D1 and saying that we were all delusional for wanting to play with Axle, it seems strange that he would abandon that viewpoint so quickly at the beginning of N1 and then finally start giving his reads on players that weren't Axle. In fact, if you look at his reasoning for voting Rad: On December 08 2012 15:39 yamato77 wrote: Yeah all my reads on the lurkers are town, even though they all show very little interest in the game. Pressure on them goes basically nowhere, either, because they don't seem dodgy or uncooperative. Axle, although sometimes incomprehensible, seems to be trying to solve the game and give us information to work with so he's probably town. You're basically confirmed town. So I guess Rad is definitely the scummiest. ##Vote Rad He only decides to pick Rad because of a feeble process of elimination, and he does not provide with us why he thinks Rad is scum, only that every one else probably isn't, and pretty much sheeps Kicks vote. Does anyone else feel like this is somewhat suspicious? Why is only now that he is trying to push anything besides the easiest scum choice? I find this really fishy, and think it reads as scum 2 trying to pull in the slack that comes from being the only scum left. So that is where my vote is going ##Vote: Yamato77. I think that the push on Rad is an easy vote because he got caught on the wrong side of the flip and that voting him is an easy thing for scum to capitalize on. | ||
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Arnarnion
Canada39 Posts
If you guys were wrong it would be the end of town and I wasn't willing to risk that, especially since the only people on the vote where the sheepiest player we have, a guy I don't trust, and someone who seems to think that he has solved game because he led a lynch on scum day one. I wasn't buying it. | ||
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Arnarnion
Canada39 Posts
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Arnarnion
Canada39 Posts
On December 09 2012 12:07 yamato77 wrote: and yes, for the record, I have no problem sheeping kick at all. So you're fine with letting someone else make decisions for you so that you can sound like your on board with town without actually risking having to put your own ideas forward. You sound like a productive member of the team, that you do. | ||
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Arnarnion
Canada39 Posts
And 3 out of 7 people is not the majority of town. And I didn't tell you guys not to vote rad because A) I didn't think I(Captain Lurker) could change the minds of the guy who got the first lynch and his two nodding followers and B) I was agonizing up to the last minute on whether or not I would consolidate because I keep thinking there is the possibilty that my reads are wrong, but this time I felt like if I went and voted without thinking that there would be a 50/50 chance that that action could mean a win for scum or town. And I didn't want to make that decision. I threw my vote down on Yam because of the two people that sheeped you for that vote on Rad, his behavior has been the most inconsistent throughout the game and he hasn't had his own idea since he first went after Axle, jidol has a least been up front about it. You are being followed around by two people without any opinions themselves and feeling like you're hot shit because of it. Wake up Why do you trust Yam now, when you clearly didn't before? I really want to know, because I don't understand why everyone is talking about him like he's confirmed town. | ||
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Arnarnion
Canada39 Posts
A) thank you for editing my words to fit your point, that is fantastic investigation tactics. B) My opinion of no lynch on day one was based on the fact that we still had no new information to go on and it was the beginning of the game, which is most acceptable time for town to suffer a mislynch. I voted then to consolidate so that we could actually get the information that came with the flip instead of just twiddling our thumbs. My opinion changed D2 because the stakes were much higher, since we had already lost our doctor, and that if I voted to consolidate then it could equally result in a loss for town or scum, given the likelihood of 3 town deaths in a row based on the flip. So yes, you are correct my opinions did change over time, but because what I knew and what was at stake changed. And with regards to my attack at Yam's productivity, yes it is hypocritical of me, as it would be for you or for sylencia if either of you said it, doesn't change the fact that he's doing it to but that no one is talking about it whereas us three have been called out for it constantly. Why is no one looking at that? And I predicted I am next to be lynched because the two most vocal (not necessarily original) players have been stating that that's what they are gonna do tomorrow. I figure I'm gone anyway, I'm going to fight it if I can, I just want you all to know when I flip town who is my make for scum. | ||
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