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On December 18 2012 13:08 Djodref wrote:
@ jay
I also need your cases for your current scum reads.
I would like also to know if your stance on me has changed since the flip.
Your latest scum reads are Vivax, marv and Z-Bo. Good luck for your cases !
@ Hapa
jay is not a new player here.
Did you see the reasoning he gave for his absolute confidence in a town VE ?
This is such far fetched, weird, totally made-up reasoning.
Here is the natural town reaction.
Someone claims Cop without breadcrumbs and stuff when he is about to get lynched, giving a green check on your top scumread. You just lynch this guy. Especially if Palmar wanted to lynch him before as well.
Anyway, jay's filter is pretty scummy on itself, so... The easiest answer is that he is scum.
Yeah I'm agreeing with ya on jay dawg. See last post.
And I'm saying jay = "new" in the sense that he's a pretty easy mislynch if he's town. His behavior and actions point otherwise though.
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On December 18 2012 07:56 VisceraEyes wrote:
PRE-tldr for VIVAX
ZBoson
jaybrundage
Hapahauli
grush
Bluelightz
thrawn
Vivax
marv
Djodref
I just rediscovered this post. I hope this is not some massive WIFOM bomb planned by VE, but the interaction between VE and Jay makes absolutely no sense with this list.
VE was super-cordial with Jay's attempts to save him. Jay is far too trusting of a guy who was trying to get him lynched.
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Z-Boson. Probably not scum due to VE pushing him for most of the last few days.
The one reservation I have with Jay is Adam and VE pushing him for most of D1. However, Day 1 starts to make a hell of a lot more sense (bussing wise) if two scum candidates were up for lynching.
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This leaves marv, thrawn, g-rush, and bluelightz.
Lynch marv at lylo. Otherwise, seems townie.
Still strongly reading thrawn's "gambit" as some stupid townie thing.
G-rush I read as town.
Bluelightz I read as lazy scum #4
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There's vivax too, but he's too attention-whorey to be scum.
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On December 19 2012 00:14 Z-BosoN wrote:
...
Regarding jay/Hapa.
They went after me as soon as thrawn opened the wound. Scum are generally much more comfortable seconding some other reads.
If you note VE's post, look how he said he was re-writing his post on me or whatever, and a bunch of time later, hips "case" on me is a couple of quotes, and doesn't push it. I should have realized this much earlier, this is a rather strong tell
Um. I didn't go after you this game, have I? I think I've had a couple of posts that were "leaning scum" or "leaning town" or "null" on you, but I haven't had many interactions with you this game.
Regarding Hapa, his play is really off from his meta. He play is characterized by making cases, but he also does that as scum. What mostly unsettles me is how he's not thrown anyone against the wall this game, and doesn't have not nearly as much OMGUSing going on as in his townie games.
Now that VE has flipped red, I want even more to lynch into them tomorrow. Their stances on VE, as noted above, didn't look so townie, moreso with jay. Hapa isn't known for sheeping like that, and Jay blatantly tried to "prove" VE was town with some backwards-ass logic.
I get the behavior is different from my town play, but it's also different from my scum-play no? Name me one game as scum where I don't OMGUS, I sheep a read... etc.
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On December 19 2012 01:59 thrawn2112 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2012 10:18 Hapahauli wrote:On December 15 2012 10:08 jaybrundage wrote:
Time to vote Palmar? Not time to vote Palmar.
I'll have to look between jay, VE, BL, and Z-Bo for the next scummer. I was planning to post question VE about one of his posts if Tunkeg flipped red. That sadly didn't happen, but the post seems relevant regardless: On December 14 2012 16:21 VisceraEyes wrote:
After looking at Tunkeg's filter, it's mostly blah. Not even in a bad way or good way...just blah. The only thing I don't like about his filter is nicely summed up in Hapa's post on the guy - his periods of absolute certainty that he shouldn't have if he's town.
His "martyr reads" and Adam's reads ended up being strikingly similar, but Tunkeg's came first and Adam flipped scum.
He MIGHT be scum, but I'm not really interested in lynching him today. I prefer to see ZBoson flip before making a final judgement call on Tunkeg. If I can't get a ZBoson lynch and Tunkeg is the only other alternative however, I would vote for Tunkeg. The bolded is a pretty strong statement. I'm not sure if it's just poor wording or not, but he seems to be putting some heavy suspicion on Tunkeg, then dancing around the issue in favor of Z-Bo. Show nested quote +On December 16 2012 10:09 Hapahauli wrote:
Way to fight the good fight guys
##Vote VisceraEyes Show nested quote +On December 18 2012 07:38 Hapahauli wrote:
interesting. I'll have to think about whether it's true or not. If no one counterclaims, I could get behind a Jay lynch. His tunnel on Djo felt really forced all through today. Show nested quote +On December 18 2012 08:43 Hapahauli wrote:
I want to lynch jay because his tunnel on Djo felt really forced. He's also afk for critical moments of the game (such as now) and he hasn't given me any reasons to think he's town. That's only if VE steps up though. Show nested quote +On December 18 2012 09:38 Hapahauli wrote:
I can't figure out a player that I'd feel comfortable switching onto.
Jay's reactions so far don't seem scummy. He's setting himself up to draw alot of attention to himself regardless of how VE flips. Even Z-Bo seems alright.
...and who else? Bluelightz? Seems like a coin-flip. two times hapa has the opposite reaction of the thread (not doubting ve's claim and thinking jay looked townie at the end of d3) He started the day wanting to vote for ve. jay was also a possible candidate. ve claims, nobody believes him except hapa and hapa wants to lynch jay. then jay comes into the thread acting crazy and hapa no longer wants to lynch jay and settles on a "coinflip" between bluelightz and boson
How is having the opposite reaction of the thread scummy? Like seriously.
Regarding Jay, I think I've made it clear in those posts why I was thinking what I was at the time. I initially wanted to lynch Jay because he hadn't given me reasons to think he was town. Then he started acting up, and I thought that was something townie (I've since changed my mind on this).
Also, you're just shoving words into my mouth regarding the "coinflip" thing. I said that lynching bluelightz was a "coinflip" at that stage. Where do I express a desire to lynch Z-Bo? I don't.
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But thrawn, what's the mafia story behind that string of quotes? Cool, I changed my mind on Jay. But what makes that more likely for me to do as mafia rather than town? That string of quotes is me being a reactive townie, responding to new information posted in the thread.
What would I be doing there as "mafia," and why would I be doing it?
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Regarding the Thrawn Case
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=384953¤tpage=124#2461
Munk-E
I can't defend Munk-E beyond the fact that he's lynch-bait. I once again refer you to his newbie game filter (town D1 mislynch) as well as the fact that he replaced out (possibly he didn't have enough time to play). You've been content to ignore both of these factors over and over again.
Munk-E looks "scummy." I get that. However he looks pretty damn scummy in his town play. I'm not pretending his play is townie, but you should realize that it could come from town-Munk-E and that his play at the very least should be "null" in your eyes.
Hapa's Opening Posts
I think everyone forgets that I'm a replacement in this game. I made a post about something I was not-caught-up-on the second I replaced in, and changed my mind when I realized my mistake. I get that "you don't like it", but what about that is scummy?
Also... you think "responding to something too quickly" is scummy? I can' only read that as "Hapa put too much effort into replacing in, therefore he's scum." What the tits is that? I was excited to replace in and play the game initially (still had time, oh the memories...), and I was commenting on everything in the thread instantly and without a second thought. You should be reading that as townie buddy.
Hapa's Scumhunting
I get I haven't posted some giant "Wall-O-Text," however you have to keep in mind that I do this as both scum and town. In fact I'm really really good about posting long cases as scum. Tunneling people, pursuing reads, pushing reads... etc. All of those are hallmarks of my scum-play.
The same thing with "passivity" - name me one of my scum-games where I'm remotely passive. I know my activity explanations may be unsatisfying to you, but they are true. Also, outside of that 48 hour period of activity, I've been really active.
Like seriously, does anyone realize that I have a 10-page filter as a replacement in this game? As a replacement.
VE's Lynch
This is pretty selective on your part. First of all, you ignore that I was the first to park my vote on VE in the thread.
You also say that I was "too trusting" of the VE claim, when any post I have on the subject should be clear about my hesitation regarding the subject. You can't dismiss cop-claims so quickly. I still disagree with how some of you immediately pegged his claim as a lie - it's something that an inactive townie can do in that spot. Ultimately though we had no choice but to lynch him in that spot since the claim was too convenient and he wasn't doing much to help himself (and you'll notice, I never moved my vote).
You also mention my attitudes on Jay as "against the thread." 1) Why would I pick an opinion deliberately against the thread as scum? 2) What about my attitudes on Jay make me scummy? This seems to be more about you disagreeing with my opinion rather than connecting a scum motive to it.
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On December 19 2012 05:29 Z-BosoN wrote:
@hapa
Regarding you attacking me soon after thrawn made the case, you're right, you just kinda agreed how I was disengaged and that's about it.
That doesn't sound like "jumping on you" to me. Also, was your play disengaged at that point: true or false?
However, though I still suck big time in making meta reads, your play feels totally weak and passive towards what I'm used to. Maybe not necessarily as scummy as I was making it, but still, could be you being lazy scum, and it certainly isn't helpful. I'll check you out tomorrow.
You do realize that I've been hyper-active this game outside of a 48 hour period that I was busy. I have a 10-page filter this game... and I was a replacement! That's not "lazy scum." That's selective memory.
Meanwhile, can you give some thoughts on Jay/Djo? Do you still have your townread on Djo, considering the BLuelightz thing I highlighted and how he seems to focus on non-alignment-indicative stuff (mainly discussing whether or not I believe in using advice from the dead)?
I still am convinced that Djo is town. He's more active and gives more of a shit than anyone in this game. I think you have a higher chance to flip red than him, and I think you're town.
Also, what do you make of BL/grush who have gone into overdrive lurking mode?
I think BL is the 4th scum.
Grush... I initially said I have a town read on him, but he has been pushing mafia objectives quite hard this game. Outside of his initial bus of Adam, there's nothing much in his filter that would suggest he's town. For example, he pushed Djo really hard until I convinced him to vote for VE (at which point he weekly sheeps on VE). Same thing with the tunkeg lynch - goes hard after Djo, then weekly sheeps on Tunkeg.
The problem with Grush of course is that this is fairly normal for him as town as well.
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On December 19 2012 05:42 Vivax wrote:
Where is grush pushing mafia objectives?
Wanting to lynch Djo over VE yesterday, then sheeping on VE when I asked him to.
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@ Z-Bo
On December 19 2012 05:50 Z-BosoN wrote:
@hapa
Yes, that is why I said "you're right".
I wasn't as engaged as I was in liquid city/LVII, but I was definitely more engaged than with mario I think.
Pages of filter is different from overall presence though. Your play is marked by you trying to take control and make people follow you, which is totally not going on. Sure you don't do that as either town nor scum, but it fits scum play much better.
Anyways, if you are town I think one of BL/grush could be scum as well. Which is a coinflip, cause I seriously cannot read them.
Your logic is reasonable, but unfortunately for you I'm town =P
Keep in mind that a bunch of people thought I was suspicious for the same reasoning in CT Mafia. I was less present, less active, etc. And... I was town! Woo!
@ Vivax
I don't think you understand what I'm saying. I'm giving him (GRush) a null read as well, because he could very well be posting what he's doing as town. He's a guy who will unwittingly push mafia objectives some times.
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On December 19 2012 07:21 Vivax wrote:
Why does this lynch suddenly make Djo less scummy for you?Cause 1 of his 3 cases was about VE?
You forgive every mistake he's done in the past cause he started posting with a gun at his head?
No. It's because he tried to scumhunt. On the gallows or not, he went above and beyond what anyone could have expected him to do.
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On December 19 2012 07:48 Vivax wrote:
There are a dozen of reasons on the previous pages on why grush could be what he might be, do you care commenting on them?
Also, how did Jay behave differently from Djo @ the lynch, except that Djo lied to Palmar?
Essentially, what I wrote up there.
The difference isn't what they did during one lynch. It's what they did other than that. Jay's done much less compared to what Djo has done. Their filters are night and day in terms of effort, content, and most importantly in actions towards VE.
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Well it certainly more over the top. His play this game is far more constructive, no matter what his conclusions may have been. I'd lean town on him based on that.
What do you think the likelihood is that VE tried to bus Z-Bo? You're more familiar with VE's scum antics than I am, but the persistance with which VE tried to get Boson killed makes it seem unlikely. There's Jay pushing him as well.
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Vivax... what exactly are you trying to accomplish? Are you just trying to insult marv, defend jay, lynch Djo... or what? I can't tell any more.
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On December 19 2012 08:30 Vivax wrote:
Hapa, who are you going to lynch tomorrow?
Also, are you able to link me your last post where you've been analysing someone?
Jay. I've made that pretty clear in my filter. The only scumteam that makes sense to me right now is Jay/BL.
Maaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyybe Z-Boson or GRush, but I highly doubt it.
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I'd like to think so.
There's not much I can add to Jay beyond what I've said here:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=384953¤tpage=123#2449
As for Bluelightz, he's just a lurky/lazy player that's likely to flip red. No technical analysis required, just process of elimination.
The only other reasonable candidates are yourself, Z-Bo, and GRush. You seem like a stupid townie given your activity/rage/etc. Z-Bo got pushed by Jay+VE (I'll feel better about this if Jay flips red anywho). GRush seems town based on meta.
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On December 19 2012 08:39 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On December 12 2012 17:07 Hapahauli wrote:EBWOP: Derp
greenVE - He hasn't done much, but his vote on Adam gave me a town feel. On December 12 2012 07:39 VisceraEyes wrote:
##Unvote
##Vote: Adam
Baaaaaaahhhhh. He doesn't attempt to glorify it or justify it - he's candid about the whole thing, and that strikes me as town. Added in haste after you forgot to put it into your main analysis post which you refused to post after I asked. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=384953¤tpage=52#1021I think I'll join other townies in voting you tomorrow. Shoot me bitches.
So I thought VE was slightly townie like a bunch of other players in this game. That makes me scummy... how?
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EPT
