EPTParanoia Mafia
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Why is Blazinghand so useless? Why has VE not complained about the lack of scumhunting? Why did Lazermonkey find the need to vote Ace before telling us all he'd be on later? Why does Xatalos seem scummy but has received the most attention, but not that many votes? I find myself questioning a lot in this game. | ||
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And marv, I'm not convinced he's scum. Yet. | ||
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I don't remember the last votecount but from my mental image of the game it seems like we're moving toward lynching Xatalos. I'm fine with that; I have some small doubts that he might not be scum (i.e. his activity, for one) but I've seen him play active scum (Newbie XV for example) so perhaps it doesn't mean anything. However, I want to point out that there is something about Lazermonkey that I find quite disconcerting: he shows up for a brief amount of time, votes randomly, and then leaves. He first did that with Ace and then did it again with Shiaopi. His exchange with Shiaopi seemed really forced and artificial, and he hasn't said anything of substance. Try to think of an opinion he's had or of anything of substance he's said: my mind comes up blank. ##vote Lazermonkey | ||
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On December 01 2012 10:21 marvellosity wrote: cool, can we kill bugs now I understand why Ace voted you now. rofl. If anyone else is curious, go check out marvellosity's filter. If he's town, he's doig a pretty shitty job of keeping the thread coherent. | ||
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It's also amusing that every time I roll scum no one calls me scum and then I get shot by some faggot 3rd party or a vigi who is scared of my scum play. | ||
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Compare it to what I could do here (and note that it would be exactly what marv said about what I am saying) On December 01 2012 11:05 marvellosity wrote: this is scummy as shit. actually we've not been useless for quite a lot of pages now, and if you'd read properly you'd know this. luckily for you, bugs is scummier right now. Let's do some marv-level translation: marv: this is scummy as fuck but I'm going to keep my vote on the guy I'm currently on because I say he's scummier. How the fuck is that different from saying that I find someone currently on the lynch list scummy, but I'd rather pressure someone else who I don't have the same doubts about? | ||
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He also seems afraid to put forth his opinions or attack players based on what he sees (e.g. the suspicion of Ace comment-would call him scum if he were someone else) which is not something townies generally do or should do. ##unvote Lazermonkey ##vote Zealos | ||
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On December 02 2012 05:14 marvellosity wrote: yeah i don't like any of it. I'm hesitant on Zealos because his play always comes across as super weakly to me. Although why he keeps referring to some game which was more than half my mafia career ago I have no idea. Xatalos has managed to post so much without saying almost anything which is irritating. What makes me hesitant is that I can understand his thought process on some things. I also am having an extremely hard time getting town reads this game, and the timing of your debears case did seem opportunistic at the time (not even saying that's what it was, but I had that gut reaction at the time reading the thread). Ace is a dick bugs is a dick Zentor is Zentor ShiaoPi is pointless All DYH has done is talk about Xatalos Dandel has sat on his arse doing nothing literally all day. I think... I want to lynch DarthPunk. I found his early defence of Xatalos quite bizarre and unnecessary. Not only this, it has been quite out of play with his subsequent play. DarthPunk tells us he was "feeling protective" of newbie Xatalos. But he treats Lazermonkey, someone with not many games and with similar standing in the game, as a piece of fucking shit on the bottom of his shoe. He also calls the whole thread useless and retards, which jarred at the point that a lot of us were genuinely trying to talk through Xatalos and other matters. It was just shitty ranting for the sake of shitty ranting. I'm also not picking up any of the towntells I normally get from DP. They might just be absent and he's town, but I don't think so. He's aggressive without being helpful and I think we should lynch him today. ##vote: DarthPunk yes, let's call scum one of the only players in the game who is not afraid to put forth his opinion. The fuck are you smoking? Where is your meta read of DP coming from? Based on my cursory reads of his meta and past games, I have to agree 100% with his defense (to BH) and that you're completely wrong about how he plays both mafia and town. In addition, since when is calling people dumb a scumtell? DP is clearly not afraid to draw attention to himself by saying the thread has so far been useless. I don't find that particularly scummy in most situations, so I don't understand how DP is suddenly the exception. | ||
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Also everything you just said is not backed up by any evidence. I took a completely different interpretation from my reading of DP's posts in past games. Why don't you actually provide some evidence for your claims, since the burden of proof is on you to establish why DP is scum? | ||
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On December 02 2012 05:27 austinmcc wrote: For anyone who's particularly concerned about Zealos's vote on Xatalos indicating Zealos is scum...here's my hangup. WHY WOULD SCUM DROP A VOTE LIKE THAT? When it comes down to "scumZealos is trying to look like he's not just jumping on board a lynch" and "townZealos is dropping a vote without a good explanation" ... I lean towards the townZealos option. I know that you may want to justify a vote as scum, but...that's not the way to do it. Right? That's where my head is at right now on Zealos. Without that vote, he's scummy. With that vote, I have more trouble thinking that he's scum. what the fuck? scum drop votes like that all the time. They're not backed heavily by justification, or they're backed by "justification" that is made to look as if a contribution is being made. Was what Zealos said real contribution or was it "contribution"? I think the answer to that is fairly self-evident. The vote itself is null at worst. | ||
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On December 02 2012 05:30 marvellosity wrote: ?? the only thing that isn't apparent from reading his filter or the thread is what I consider his town/scum tells to be. Come up with some comparisons of his play here to play in past games that actually show what you're saying. So far you just seem like you're full of shit, since I can't see what you're talking about. Prove me wrong or I'll start gunning to kill you, since your reasons so far all game have been god awful. | ||
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On December 02 2012 05:32 marvellosity wrote: coming from the cesspool of shite that is you, that's rich. fuck off, bugs. so your response to me questioning your case is to get pissy and tell me to fuck off? Cool, you went from "probably town" to "probably scum" in a matter of 5 minutes. Prepare your anus for the tunneling you're about to receive. | ||
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Firstly: he has 6 pages of almost nothing but aggressive one liners. He calls out DP for being aggressive and antitown, yet he's arguably been the most "aggressive" and antitown player all game. I chalked this up to him just being his normal town self, but something seems off in his reasoning this game. He seems artificially bold and he doesn't actually have good reasoning for anything that he's saying. Indeed he just tried to use a position of authority on DP ("I got his alignment right before" bullshit) instead of actually furthering his case with evidence. When I asked for evidence that supports his claims, he just told me to fuck off. It's clear he's full of hot air and is just a scum flailing around trying to make accusations stick. His accusation on me clearly didn't stick after his half-assed shitty "contradiction" case. It was clear to anyone who was reading the thread that I am not scum, and only the bandwagon-happy and lazy players actually agreed with him. Check this out: On December 01 2012 10:52 marvellosity wrote: i take it i need to teach you how to read here he throws out a bunch of questions he has no intention of following up on in the first 24 hours of LI that you kindly linked, he interacts with town, has several posts, and asks at least 3 different players who they want to kill and who they think they are scum gl finding the same thing this game How does he know what I think based on one post I made at the time? He says I had no intention on following up on my questions, before i had posted anything. ??? He calls out Zealos at some point for misrepresentation, yet this is as shining of an example of misrepresentation as one could ever find. ##unvote Zealos ##vote marvellosity | ||
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On December 02 2012 06:52 marvellosity wrote: You are Jamie Hyneman. Your love of the scientific method makes it possible for you to find out how shit works. You've also got a cool collection of cameras and stuff, that you can totally use to track people. (Detective) LOL what kind of shit cop claims day 1? Of all people marv would know that this is a terrible idea as town. So, guess what? HE'S NOT TOWN! | ||
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On December 02 2012 07:31 marvellosity wrote: the sad, tragic thing is that it's unlikely both Ace and bugs are scum.  neither of us are scum you moron | ||
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herpa derpa herpa derpa it's like that one time prplhz or whoever the fuck claimed cop d1 and then everyone let him live | ||
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scum do whatever they want to live when they think they're gonna die | ||
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On December 02 2012 08:17 Blazinghand wrote: DYH is definitely not above suspicion. I just don't lynch claimed blues D1. But the way he claimed was probably... the worst possible way to claim and the least useful for town. you don't lynch claimed blues on d1 out of policy because you're bad. Imagine every scum claimed some sort of blue d1, you're guaranteed to kill a townie day 1. This type of logic is just absurd. | ||
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On December 02 2012 08:20 Blazinghand wrote: If every scum claimed blue D1 we'd win super easily... till the townies start claiming blue. you don't know what you're talking about. Also, my post was an extreme. Imagine one scum claims blue. Then what? He can just claim roleblock forever. | ||
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Scoreboard: Me 1 Retard Train (aka everyone else) 0 | ||
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On December 02 2012 08:27 marvellosity wrote: nuh uh, you're on the retard train coz you were voting for the cop. sorry buddy. the guy who claimed cop d1 dares call someone else stupid? well I guess it was a pretty smart move for you considering that you are scum and everyone else is too stupid to realize how much of a scummy move that was. | ||
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On December 02 2012 08:32 VisceraEyes wrote: 1) Blazinghand why is it okay for Marvelosity to call people retarded but not Bug? 2) Blazinghand, why was marv fake-claiming scum when votes were on him, but "gets a check tonight" now that he's not lynched? 3) Bugs and Ace, I'm intrigued by your ideas and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter. I like you, bearded man. | ||
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On December 02 2012 08:34 marvellosity wrote: yes, because it's even stupider that you were still voting for me, twinkletoes. stop being a baddie and assess the game properly. you think claiming cop day 1 as town is a good move? If so, then stop fucking calling me a baddie. | ||
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On December 02 2012 08:39 marvellosity wrote: yes, i think claiming cop is a good idea when the votes were rushing on to me, and everyone was refusing to give any reasons. The votes should not be on me and they should be on finding scum. How am I supposed to argue against everyone's non-existent cases? "marv is playing weird" "marv is likelier scum than x" "marv is something else that doesn't at all describe why i'm scum in any way" and yet you caused the bandwagon on DP for exactly the same reasons. What have we concluded here? Oh, right, that people in mafia games bandwagon for stupid reasons. Doesn't change the fact that you're scum, though! | ||
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On December 02 2012 08:42 marvellosity wrote: now who's misrepresenting the thread? stop it. Keep talking, you give me more ammo every time you do. You complain that no one had "adequate reason" to vote you, yet you simply throw around unsubstantiated shit like "you're misrepresenting the thread". The simple fact is, there exists documented evidence that I was right about DP and that you were full of hot air. If you are town you need to realize this. The fact that you refuse to realize it either means you're just a stubborn townie who's playing badly (certainly possible) or, my hypothesis, that you're pressured scum. | ||
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On December 02 2012 08:47 marvellosity wrote: you're arguing separate things. obviously i was wrong about DP, what's to argue with? you are misrepresenting the thread, do you want me to go and paste the reasons i was voting for DP? what am I 'not realising'? what you are 'not realising' is that I am town, who got backed into a corner, whether it's Zentor's "being weird", BH's non-reason, or Ace's non-reason (i literally can't remember the reasons half the people voted for me). Personally if i'm blue and getting lynched i'm gonna claim. If I'd got lynched and I'd flipped cop, everyone would be shouting "y u no claim marvelbabes?!?"?"?!?!" You argue that people were giving shitty reasons to vote you. I argue that you used even shittier reasons to vote DP. For the record, when I asked you for concrete examples of how DP's play fit his scum meta, you told me to, I quote, "fuck off". What you are not realising if you are town is that you are being incredibly dense. The fact that people use shitty reasons to BANDWAGON is nothing new. People bandwagon scum or town targets more or less the same (although unfortunately it's more often that they kill a townie day 1). I tried to get people off DP because, as I said, your argument was weak as fuck. You chose not to clarify it, either because you didn't have evidence that DP was following his scum meta (my opinion) or that you're just stubborn as hell. Secondly, why would it matter if you were backed into a corner? As town why would you refuse to provide evidence for DP following his scum meta? As town why would you complain about people using shitty reasons to vote others while doing it yourself? Let me reiterate: As town why would you tell someone to fuck off when they ask you why you think your target is scum? Townies don't do that-if they have a target and they truly believe that the person is scum for X reason, they will explain X reason. You didn't explain it, you told me to fuck off. | ||
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On December 02 2012 08:55 marvellosity wrote: because you were being a douche. so i shouted at you. you were phrasing your questions unnecessarily aggressively at me, and you should know i bite back at that sort of thing. read your own filter... i did provide reasons and quotes when debears asked me. And I thought it was correct. Obviously not. man I asked you to come up with ONE example in context of how DP's meta fit him in this game. I argued that I came to the opposite conclusion and I was fairly loud about it to prevent him from getting bandwagoned. Yet, you chose to tell me to fuck off. No shit I got aggressive when the guy pushing the biggest bandwagon in the thread refuses to answer any questions about his reasoning. | ||
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On December 02 2012 09:00 marvellosity wrote: You should know I lash out if I'm being annoyed. Hell, you even do the same when it's not warranted too, don't deny it. Do you really think me, marvellosity, is scum because I told you to fuck off? I got heated and pissed in your face. Should I? no. Did I? yes. It doesn't make me scum. If you're town you need to get off this tunneltrain or at least understand how I'm prone to playing the game. Do you see where I'm coming from?? I get annoyed but at the very least I answer the question being asked when I'm town. Note, when I'm town. When I'm scum I generally do whatever the hell I want and rarely does that involve answering questions about my lynch targets. What makes you scum is not the fact that you got pissed off but rather the fact that you call out everyone for "shitty reasoning" yet your own lynch target was seemingly arbitrarily picked. You come up with a bunch of meaningless fluff that was refutable just by reading DP's filter and two of his past games. In fact that was one of the first things I did. You know what I noticed? That you were wrong. So, when I tell you that you are wrong (despite the burden of proof for the DP case being on YOU) you get overly defensive and refuse to answer questions about the reasoning. Townies don't refuse to answer reasoning about cases they make when they're told they're wrong. They defend their cases and they give reasons why other people are wrong. You didn't do any of that when I called you out on your fabrications. | ||
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So, let's kill BH then. Hopefully someone shoots him tonight. | ||
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On December 02 2012 09:30 austinmcc wrote: Seriously, please go into a little more detail about why you want BH to get deaded. I've mentioned this before, but: Go back and look at how BH switches his votes and how he reasons them. Look at how he attacks DP. Firstly, one could argue that voteswitching doesn't really tell us anything about how BH is scum or not. Sure, one could argue that, but then consider that BH doesn't do any work in pushing his targets either. He switches really often, usually with no attached reason, and he's so erratic that no one really knows what he's going to do or why he's going to do it. As town I feel like BH usually at least gives reasons for attacking people. It looks as if he feigned contribution on DP/Zentor, and stuff like this: On December 02 2012 07:01 Blazinghand wrote: Wow all these people agreeing with me to lynch DP and I'm the only one with a good reason. Don't look gift horses in the mouth I guess suggests that he's more concerned with his appearance than actually finding scum. What's especially weird is his vote switches between DP and DYH. These are just done for no reason at all and he never states why his suspicion of either changes as he does it. Lastly, I haven't heard anyone yet say that they find BH to be townie. Notice how people consistently call him scum (even marv did) and no one really considers him town, but there's always a different target with the attention on them. | ||
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MrZentor Zealos Dandel Ion Shiaopi since they essentially got away with either abstaining or not doing anything all day 1. | ||
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On December 02 2012 09:51 Blazinghand wrote: I made by far the best case against DP, a solid (though as it turns out, ultimately incorrect) meta case. I sat down and did the homework on it. I'm gonna admit the reasoning on the MrZ vote was bad, but if your critique of my play is "BH swaps around a lot" then yeah okay I swap around a lot, but that's just how I roll. ALWAYS with an attached reason, usually because unlike you I actually try to interact with people in this thread and listen to what they have to say. I don't think people here are retarded. I don't like getting talked out of things, but if someone genuinely convinces me that a read is wrong, then yes I will unvote and vote someone else because my goal is to lynch scum. Zentor was a mistake, but I DID put in lots of work on both him and DP. just because I use links instead of quotes to make my meta cases more legible doesn't mean they're bad. What? It suggests that I'm dubious of people on my wagon but I'm still confident in my read. I trust MrZ's read and I thought it was reasonable. I still think it's reasonable and DYH is scummy, and I swapped back to DP because I don't lynch blues D1. the "best case" on DP was still garbage, and despite the fact that I pointed that out repeatedly you managed (along with derpellosity over here) to still tunnel him to death. So, BH, if you are town, who is scum then? | ||
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On December 02 2012 09:56 marvellosity wrote: sorry bugs, I forgot you never lynched townies Day 1. it's pretty rare for me to be correct on day 1 but I almost always oppose the obvious lynches that happen against townies on d1. Usually it's because the most successful wagons on day 1 are almost always the worst ones. | ||
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I'm like 90% sure DYH is town. I don't find the tone of his posts scummy and I don't see anything that he's said that would be advantageous from a scum position. He's said too much and his push on Xatalos seemed very genuine. If he's scum he's done a very good job at faking contribution, and I don't think that's very likely, seeing as he brought up very good points about Xatalos and was one of the few players who I thought was genuinely pushing a target. I haven't looked into his meta, though. As for BH he's hard to read but I'm fairly certain he's scum. At no point has he given a real reason for anything he's done. I've repeated myself several times over this so if you want more just check out my most recent exchange with him. I'm also pretty much in accord with what Keirathi said about him. | ||
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On December 03 2012 06:53 Blazinghand wrote: One little objection I'd like to throw out just for you to chew on though is that if I were scum there's no real reason I'd swap from DYH to DP in the final seconds of D1 to save DYH and lynch DP unless DYH was also scum. seeing as DYH is probably also town, and scum don't give a fuck about killing townies, I never understood how this argument is supposed to even mean anything. Switching between two townies makes no difference to scum. | ||
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I'll be back later when I can actually form a coherent post. | ||
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As I said earlier, I think we should consider ShiaoPi as a lynch candidate. I also thought that we should consider Dandel/sandro today but based on sandro's contributions so far I don't think that's a good idea. If sandro continues being useful I'm inclined to call him town; he's remarkably easy to catch as scum. I wouldn't mind killing BH but I have an inkling he's just being dumb. Clearly I should've erred on the side of "marvel is saying stupid stuff about DP" instead of "marvel is scum because of how he can't see DP is town." (and once again I should've trusted my earlier read) The tl;dr reason for why I think we should consider ShiaoPi is this: On December 02 2012 05:33 VisceraEyes wrote: Shiao is.......I want to wait on Shiao. At least a day. Maybe tomorrow. I'm not really reading Shiao as scum right now. Also note I'm less willing to lynch BH and Zealos given how some events unfolded and this: On December 02 2012 05:33 VisceraEyes wrote: As it stands, I'm willing to lynch inside [Zealos, Dandel, Blazinghand] today. In that order. ##Unvote ##Vote: Zealos Of note is that VE's only mentions of Dandel came in this post, which make it entirely plausible that VE was simply throwing forward Dandel's name to distance himself from a scumbuddy. His only mentions of Shiao also come in this post. In general scum ignore some of their team and thrust some others into the limelight. It serves to hedge both bets; one that they can potentially bus, and the other that they can preserve their team. Almost every scum does this, and I don't think VE is any exception to that. While he mentions Shiao and Dandel only in these posts, he mentions other players (such as Zealos, whom he actually voted for) in other posts and multiple times with at least cursory reasoning. In addition he pushed dabears fairly aggressively, as if he was looking for people to bandwagon with him on dabears. That makes me feel like it's unlikely dabears is scum (although I already had a town read on him anyway) and I think it strengthens the idea that VE interacted more with townies than with his fellow scum. Anyway, a lot of this is connection-based, but given that these players have been flying under the radar, there isn't much else to put on the table with respect to their play anyway. To rehash what I said earlier about Dandel/sandro; since sandro seems to be helpful, let's leave him alive. His presence has caused my read of him to improve, since Dandel literally didn't do anything at all. If sandro is indeed town he's our best player anyway. Of the remaining players I think LazerMonkey also deserves attention. Off the top of my head I can't think of any strong positions he's taken all game, and that's not something you generally note about townies. (curiously, VE never mentions LazerMonkey once, unless you count an indirect mention of an observation I made of Lazer) ##vote ShiaoPi | ||
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to lend credence to my idea that VE was more willing to interact with townies than scum, note these cursory/sort of nebulous things: If you ctrl-f "marv" in VE's filter, you get the most hits out of anyone else in the game: 23. Ace: 21 (24 minus 3 occurrences of "ace" in a larger word) bugs: 15 blazing/bh/blz: 22 Xata: 14 DYH/doyou: 11 Zealos: 7 shiao/shaio: 5 austin: 5 LazerMonkey/Lazer: 2 Dandel: 2 MrZentor/Zentor/Mr: 0. I find it funny that this is almost directly correlated with the read I had on each player. | ||
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Any of VE's pushes that "seemed" genuine were probably on townies. | ||
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On December 04 2012 01:40 Keirathi wrote: I actually generally have the complete opposite opinion about that. Scum on day 1 like to throw suspicion against each other if there's no pressure that they are going to get lynched. At least that's what I did in my only scum game. maybe bad scum do, cause that's fucking stupid. | ||
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On December 04 2012 02:02 Keirathi wrote: So what do good scum do? Ignore their partners? Give them town reads? Neither of those are very optimal either and can just as easily be picked up on. ?? We're talking about d1, when a confirmed scum was under no pressure at all. People don't bus just for the hell of it. When they do, they get caught later because they sacrificed too much of their team to live. Think about it, if someone gets enough cred for bussing early, people will question why they're alive later. It's just not worth it for scum to bus so early. | ||
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That's not that out of the question considering that this game is 15 players. | ||
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+ Show Spoiler [dota] + What DOES matter is that I just went 12-2-27 as invoker and still lost. This game is like a process of elimination right now. We have established several players as town and basically we just need to kill based on the flips we saw last night. It's that simple, really. I find it odd that BH is not around and talking, but certainly he has time to do so. Also seeing as sandro agrees with me it probably means shiao is scum lolol (<3 sandro scumhunting abilities) | ||
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On December 04 2012 05:05 austinmcc wrote: (1) We all know that WBG raged at his team, went afk in fountain with Exort invoker, and stole all those kills/assists with Suntrike. They were too busy raging at each other over why PA kept running in LOL that and complaining we didn't have enough disables what with me casting sheep + cold snap + deafening + euls + tornado + ice wall every fight lolol (also euls sunstrike + meteor + blast combo is sexy) On December 04 2012 05:05 austinmcc wrote: (2) I'd like to hear more from you concering folks that aren't ShiaoPi or VE. I got not problem with you sitting back D1, but short of other claims it looks like you or sandro or DYH would be the likely mafia targets tonight. For instance, you wanted to pressure these folks: I haven't played with MrZ. I know he has a bit of a reputation. I've found him pretty clear and logical this whole game. Does that strike you as odd, or do you have a problem with that? Or does it make you think he's town? Do you still want to pressure him? Zealos hasn't posted since partway through D1. You brought him up a little in relation to VE, but what do you make of his actual posts. I didn't like them D1 when talking to LazerMonkey, BH found them townie, but you haven't said anything about the actual posts that he did make, which is all we have to go off of. I don't like Zealos's posts, that's why I attacked him d1 and considered him scum. I have him somewhere in the neutral zone because the VE interaction makes him less likely to be scum. And it isn't all we have to go off of, we have a flipped scum and cop. That counts for a lot more than just a given person's posts. | ||
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why, as scum, would I purposely put myself so against the guy who claimed cop, knowing my team would then shoot him, making me look terrible? Can you answer that for me? + Show Spoiler + I'm going to take a wild guess that you'll pull the WIFOM card on me here's a reason I'm not answering you: it's a fucking waste of time. I don't find scum by telling you that you're wrong. I'm not threatened by your accusations because they aren't substantiated and I don't think anyone else is dumb enough to believe you. I am very sure you are town for exactly the same reasons Erandorr was town in Mad Men. You're just too loud and tunneling too hard to be anything but a misguided townie. So, why should I fall for the bait and try to reason with someone who I know is already convinced I'm scum? No matter what I'll say, your bias will lead you to calling me scum. Therefore it's almost fruitless for me to acknowledge your existence. Now that I've gotten that out of the way, I'm going to go back to ignoring you until you come up with something reasonably intelligent. | ||
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If you can't see where that logic falls on its face then yes, you are indeed so biased that I was correct in ignoring you. Why would I make the same mistake twice? On December 04 2012 06:59 debears wrote: EBWOP and it hasn't made u look terrible. Everyone has town reads on you o.O you say that as if it was foreseeable. | ||
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On December 04 2012 07:00 debears wrote: WBG what was your read on DYH heading into lynch before the claim? didn't really have one, since I didn't look into his posts on d1. I think I read his posts more carefully after BH said he found DYH to be scummy. My concern was more with why people were ignoring other players such as Lazer, Zealos, etc. (all the lurkers/coasters) and why BH + marv would ever think DP was scum. | ||
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On December 04 2012 07:34 debears wrote: Why didn't you look into his posts when he was one of the top two vote getters? I did, and I thought marv was scummier. | ||
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didn't really have one, since I didn't look into his posts on d1. I think I read his posts more carefully after BH said he found DYH to be scummy. | ||
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I was aware that BH wanted to kill DYH (he wanted to kill a lot of people) and so I looked at DYH's posts. That was probably the only time I did. I have no idea at what point during day 1 it was but it was definitely before the vote switch. I didn't find him to be scummy so I just ignored it. Secondly, even if I was there I wasn't going to switch my vote from marv to DYH given the fact that my default reaction is to call someone town. I would only ever switch to ensure a lynch in a no-lynch situation. I'm not going to play eenie meeny miny moe because you idiots want to kill someone I have a townread on. | ||
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Sounds about right. | ||
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On December 04 2012 10:59 Blazinghand wrote: Well, I must say the case on ShiaoPi DOES exist, but I don't see him as a good lynch today, for a couple of reasons. Although VE's interactions towards ShiaoPi don't paint ShiaoPi as town, I don't find ShiaoPi's interactions towards Marv or VE to indicate he was acting with scum motive. Typically ShiaoPi is a player who is analytical, thinks a lot, and doesn't write lots of big cases. When he does, though, they're logically consistent and show his mindset. I don't like that he backs of Xalatos in his big post on page 59. I don't think Xalatos is any townier now than he was yesterday. He says he has a "clear scumtell" from Xatalos but the voting pattern doesn't line up. I disagree with this, and I think ShiaoPi would realize that scum would much rather shoot than push Marv, who is a dangerous player as town. In fact, Marv is known for getting shot N1. I just don't think that ShiaoPi would reread Xalatos filter, and find him scummy but say that Xalatos' saving grace is that he didn't vote Marv. Scum shot marv-- they always had the ability to do so. I like that he voted Keirathi, because Keirathi is scum. But ShaioPi's thoughts on Xalatos are not consistent with someone who is thinking critically about Xatalos' play and finding him scummy but with exceptions. I'd be willing to consider a ShiaoPi lynch today if people aren't willing to get on board with Keirathi. As it stands, though Keirathi is a better lynch. The fact that this is his chief contribution aside from defending himself and tunnelling me is apalling. pure waffling. Where are your reads? where's your pressure, Keirathi? You are scum trying to wriggle out of the spotlight now that you've realized your case on me is revealed for what it is! more bad meta usage. gtfo, you don't know what you're talking about. | ||
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Keep coming out fuckers, I dare you. | ||
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Dabears attacks me for not being aggressive enough to him. And yet I'm being attacked for being too aggressive. Blazinghand says some retarded shit about Shiaopi which has almost no relevance to anything whatsoever, and I'm the one being accused of being detrimental to town. Marvellosity and BH tunnel an obvious townie and get him lynched, I try to stop it, and I'm accused of having been detrimental to town on d1. Guess what, assholes? I was the only one (besides Ace) who was right about DP! Get it through your heads that you're all playing like absolute noobs and that the reason I get pissed is because you're all too busy eating your own shit to realize that the scum are coasting along, not giving a fuck because the town is too incompetent to catch them. | ||
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On December 04 2012 13:10 austinmcc wrote: I don't care about calling him scum. Heck, BH more or less told me to fuck off around the same time period, concerning the language he'd used about DYH being a vigi. I responded by questioning him, trying to get some answers. But I didn't get into a giant pissing contest with him. I don't think I insulted him at all. Some of that is just differences in how we play the game, but are you really going to try and convince me that you and marv's little spat, that lasted ... a couple pages? and drew host comments, was just what you'd do when told to fuck off? So since we were both in on it, guess we were both scum?! Wow, amazing logic. | ||
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It's no wonder that Ace replaced out, it's like you get dumber just by being in this game. | ||
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On December 04 2012 13:14 austinmcc wrote: To be fair...host says you're scum.Host says marv is scum too...so yeah. Completely logical. I'm actually headed to bed, will maybe pick this back up in the morning. Also gonna note that I don't put too much faith in "both people doing same thing, marv town, therefore WBG certainly town." Again, I have a hard time believing you didn't know what you were doing, that you weren't purposefully provoking that. LOOK AT WHAT YOU ARE DOING RIGHT NOW. YOU'RE TRYING TO LINK SOMETHING THAT IS NOT EVER ALIGNMENT INDICATIVE TO....MY ALIGNMENT. How obvious do I have to make this before you realize your logic is just bad? | ||
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Well clearly, I had the right idea that DP was town. So what happens when you find yourself in a position where a player you consider to be good as town (i.e. marvellosity) starts using terrible reasoning to call one of your strongest townreads scum? You call them out on it! The bias here is that you've already seen marv flip town. So now you have this tendency to view anyone who attacked him negatively. The simple fact is that he was dead wrong about DP and I called him out on that. When I called him out on that he lashed back in a way that I 100% thought was not townie. I would make the call to say marv is scum again and again in the same circumstances, because in my mind any townie who is on marvellosity's calibre should understand basic meta analysis and why DP was most certainly not scum. So when we came to opposite conclusions and he was needlessly aggressive, I lashed back too! That's just how I am, given that I don't like letting scum get away with that kind of stuff. Granted what was the worst was that I abandoned my early townread of marv to do it. If I had just assumed marv was playing worse than I thought he would be as town (not something I necessarily like doing, but in every game I join I find I have to use that option more and more) then I would have consistently been able to call him town the entire time. So maybe I just overvalued his ability to read DP. | ||
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There isn't anything to refute beyond what I've already done. It's ludicrous that anyone expects me to continue to debate people who are so biased they cannot see why they are wrong. | ||
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The fact that you take credit for ShiaoPi is even funnier. I was pushing him since day 1 and the only thing keeping me from pouncing on that like a rabid wolf was the rest of town being too stupid to realize I wasn't scum. This setup was far too town favored. Given how bad the play was (plus the modkill) the game should ordinarily have been a mafia win @ day 3. | ||
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My point from day 1 still stands (about scum claiming blue). At the time I had an inkling that the setup had several blues to confuse town with claims. If scum used their brains here and claimed something on d1 or d2, the town would have never lynched them. It's hard to see this when you're not even capable of remembering the name of your own mason partner. | ||
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On December 09 2012 07:52 Blazinghand wrote: Man WBG it was my first time being a mason, okay? Sheesh. And like, part of the reason everyone wanted to lynch you is that you were a huge turd to everyone this game. All I'm gonna say is I didn't get mislynched, you did. But like seriously you really treated everyone this game like crap (or at least several people this way) and I didn't like that. If it's a good strat though it's a good strat and I can't really hate on it. Just saying it wasn't pleasant. EDIT: also I only forgot for like a moment, then I immediately retracted the case! I didn't even push him or anything. He was in no danger of getting lynched. You wonder why I called everyone stupid when the play was so downright idiotic? Come on, you forgot who your fucking mason partner was long enough to make a meta case on him. The meta case was shit anyway! This is the fucking redFF defense, "you got lynched therefore you're bad." DP got lynched and he didn't do anything outside his town meta. ShiaoPi didn't get lynched d1 and LM didn't get lynched d1 despite me pushing them both and them both being probably the most obvious scum ever. Trust me, my day 1 reads are bad. When I catch someone on d1 that generally means scum are doing nothing at all. | ||
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Trust me, I've tried. There's no good way out when people play to this level of bad. | ||
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On December 09 2012 08:24 syllogism wrote: People should direct their ire towards the real villains of the forum, the people who join games and don't play or don't care about the game. Blazinghand consistently contributes and cares. I agree with this, though I doubt this will change anytime soon. It seems to be getting worse, actually. The only scum strategy I've seen recently is to afk. | ||
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However BH and marv kept insisting DP was scum so I had to split time between derailing that bandwagon and talking to Ace figuring out why BH and marv were pushing such a dumb case. | ||
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Anyone who claims SK and then expects to live is exactly that. | ||
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Man, I have no idea what passes through your head when you think of these things. | ||
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On December 11 2012 04:33 Blazinghand wrote: It was D3 and given what had happened in the game and how the day had developed it was my only hope for not getting lynched. You think i had another option? yes, I think I explained it in postgame too. The thing is that this reflects upon your town play. By saying that it was your only option, you consciously admit that you would, as town, consider leaving alive an SK claim in that situation. | ||
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