fear no more, I am here to help
Paranoia Mafia
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Blazinghand
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fear no more, I am here to help | ||
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you die in real life | ||
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trust no one | ||
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it made me smile so muchq | ||
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but not a moment sooner | ||
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On November 30 2012 08:29 Ace wrote: I haven't played a game in over a year. Really not sure what to do right now. I've been told hunting scum is the right move, but you can never be too sure about these things | ||
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omg 1 of u is lying lynch all liars we lynch u both n kill a scum doooood | ||
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Wheel of Fortune in April: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=330925&user=377 | ||
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I'm from the government and I'm here to help. | ||
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Here's my analysis of MrZ's town play: In DMM after his admittedly initial troll post (link) he's questioning aggressive (even towards Palmar (link)) and does NOT back down due to Palmar's responses (link). He doesn't waste posts on fluff or really anything except pushing his Palmar read. Town MrZ also has strong opinions about how to read trolling-- he thinks it's not null, but can in fact be scum motivated (link) which is in contradiction to his attitude this game (link). In EMM he begins again without making a case, focusing on the VE claim that game (link), but within 24 hours has voted for ghost (link) and is bull-headed about his read, trying to pull other people onto his wagon (link), and interacting with his town-reads in an attempt to find a better wagon (link) What do we know about MrZ? Well, he's utterly unafraid of calling out players for being scummy, or for trolling. His only use for other people is to bully them to get onto his wagons, unless he develops a strong townread on one. He's aggressive, but focused, and although he's not super convincing he has conviction and as soon as he really shows up in the thread (beyond an opening post) he comes out with strong reads and a case. He will call people out, defend strong town reads (occasionally) and he really only listens to others when he has a strong town read on them. MrZ is not a player who trolls, takes the game lightly, or really does anything other than push his scum reads. He looks down on trolling and says it can be scummy. MrZ is scum This is nothing like the MrZ we've seen this game, who has in fact been in the thread for at least an hour and a half (over a day ago) and has failed to produce typical MrZ results. Now, I know MrZ likes to fool around a bit before his initial case, but he rarely bases his initial case on more than a couple posts from his target. He doesn't afraid of anyone, not even Vets. So where has he been this game? Why is MrZ acting so unlike himself? It'd be one thing if MrZ wasn't in the thread-- he's notable for being absent from the thread for decent amounts of time. But when MrZ does show up, he makes cases, and he backs the shit up out of them. He defends his cases, even when they're brief-- and his cases always EXIST. Even in EMM, his pre-case posts are focused on the town discussion and are attempting to give a read. His posts in this game show none of his aggressive stands against trolling, and the amount of time he spent in this thread would be spent by a town MrZ to make a case, or at least contribute to the discussion, even in its infancy. Contrast his stance on trolling in DMM: On September 01 2012 08:27 MrZentor wrote: No. If somebody acts like mafia, they get lynched. I'm not going to delay the lynching of a mafia, just because you're afraid of lynching a veteran. To his stance here: On November 30 2012 08:54 MrZentor wrote: People assume that if you're too uptight, you're mafia, so the first few pages are always just spam created by people trying to out-relax each other. So have some fun!! Something is different-- and that something is MrZ. He rolled scum this game. It's not in the lurking, for MrZ is if nothing else is a lurker. It is in how he has spent his time in-thread. This is unlike any MrZ I've ever known. ##unvote ##vote MrZentor come at me bro | ||
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DONT PAY ATTENTION TO IT ITS BAD ##unvote | ||
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do I have to? It's pretty embarassing. I'd rather just work on a xatalos case plz | ||
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The steamiship liquidia game that I was thinking of for his scum meta http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=282366&user=137099 was actually a game he rolled town. | ||
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WBG can stay as protoss since i'm his smurf Marv please change to terran VE change to zerg it's hard to read otherwise | ||
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WBG could still well be scum, but I don't see it. | ||
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##unvote ##vote Marv | ||
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Even if WBG's questions are less useful, his case this game (against lazermonkey) is significantly better than "fuck you ET". I see what you're getting at though. Town marv would think this. ##unvote | ||
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As town he throws around 1-liners and votes aggressively with questionable amounts of explanation. He doesn't afraid of anyone. As scum he's still aggressive, but he's very methodological. Up until his post on Lazermonkey he was playing more like his town meta but town DP rarely/never makes big posts like that, especially early game. Contrast his D1 play in Mario Mini (town) where he drops votes like they're hot (link) (link) with his game in LC where he writes out long posts that look exactly like this lazermonkey post (link) (note: this one ends in an FoS because Marv was being lynched that game). This is now aggro town DP this is plodding scum DP. ##vote DarthPunk | ||
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On December 01 2012 11:02 marvellosity wrote: "Xatalos is almost certainly scum. The only reason he might not be scum is this reason I'm about to discount myself in the same paragraph." "This Lazer guy is disconcerting, so he's scum. Even though he's a newbie he's not had a lot to say for himself. I am so convinced by this mini case that I will vote for Lazer over the guy I think has a very high chance to flip scum" "I will then follow this up by saying I know what Ace means. I will call marv's play anti-town even though I am well aware of how marv plays town and it's pretty much like this" hm. yeah actually that votepost is a turd. what's with the contradictions WBG ##unvote ##vote WBG | ||
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On December 01 2012 11:06 DarthPunk wrote: I guess we have different definitions of useless. Yeah DP I'm gonna be real here you're playing quite a bit like scum DP. But Marv is.. sigh... right and WBG contradicting himself on his face like that really REALLY is scummier than you playing to your scum meta. You've got no credibility with me baby. | ||
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##unvote ##vote DP | ||
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That's not how you opened up Mario Mini at all: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=16886982 The newbie mini game is indeed an exception, but it was your second game and you were being coached by the magnificent me so I'm sure that changes things. Overall your response is misleading. | ||
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On December 01 2012 16:57 DarthPunk wrote: Also. Do you remember that people were up in arms about me being useless early in mario? Kind of like it wasn't part of my meta? You are now basing a case on a town meta that was anomalous and called out as such during that game. Ah, so that's an exception and your newbie game, which was your first game ever as town, isn't? [QUOTE]On December 01 2012 16:57 DarthPunk wrote: [QUOTE]On December 01 2012 16:57 DarthPunk wrote: [QUOTE]On December 01 2012 16:52 Blazinghand wrote: GSL Mini III had like a 5 day long D1, that was over 48 hours in. The initial 48 hours conform to your D1 town meta, and you should know that. That's not how you opened up Mario Mini at all: [url=http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=16886982]http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=16886982[/url] The newbie mini game is indeed an exception, but it was your second game and you were being coached by the magnificent me so I'm sure that changes things. Overall your response is misleading.[/QUOTE] I didn't get coached by you until day 3. AS you should know. Mario and GSL both show that as soon as I have a read I will make a case. The time of the read and thus the case may change. [/quote] GSL has been completely shot down, and on Mario either it's "different than your normal town meta" or "you're playing now like you played then" but you can't have it both ways The meta case has one exception and would have an exception every game if you count day one as day one. instead of some other arbitrary cut off that meets your needs. | ||
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On December 01 2012 16:59 DarthPunk wrote: I did. I don;t know how you are coming to the conclusions you reached if you actually read all my town games though. Dude I was literally in, hosting, or coaching all three games you cited. I know your meta at least as well as you do. Of course I read those games. | ||
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On December 01 2012 16:59 Blazinghand wrote: Ah, so that's an exception and your newbie game, which was your first game ever as town, isn't? GSL has been completely shot down, and on Mario either it's "different than your normal town meta" or "you're playing now like you played then" but you can't have it both ways The meta case has one exception and would have an exception every game if you count day one as day one. instead of some other arbitrary cut off that meets your needs. EBWOP | ||
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On December 01 2012 17:01 DarthPunk wrote: Well. meta doesn't work on me then. Or at least you interpretation of my meta is flawed. Those two statements don't convince me, and I doubt they will convince anyone else except perhaps those of your scumbuddies who don't want to bus you just yet. | ||
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How scummy are you based on this meta case that you claim has exceptions but really only has one exception, which is a newbie game, your first game ever as town? Very scummy. How scummy are you based on the fact you clearly didn't read or click through the links on the case but just blindly attacked it, and me, and despite calling me scummy are afraid to vote me due to my veteran status? Very scummy. I've got nothing to say to you or in response to any of your statements about Lazermonkey. | ||
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I don't think he's playing great but Zealos is not a good lynch today. | ||
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##unvote ##vote Marvellosity | ||
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##unvote ##vote DP | ||
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On December 02 2012 06:39 Lazermonkey wrote: DAFUQ MARV... assuming he is a cop it was in fact the right move to claim then. | ||
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On December 02 2012 06:40 marvellosity wrote: you're fucking awful by the way. fucking awful. ;_; | ||
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On December 02 2012 06:41 Ace wrote: You know I was getting a little worried about the quick votes onto you marv. But with over an hour left and you not even really convincing people not to lynch you but others instead - a last minute detective role claim in that manner is poor. Not buying it. And to think I was this close to unvoting you. There's no way we're lynching a claimed Blue D1. Get off him | ||
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you guys are so productive | ||
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On November 22 2012 06:53 JingleHell wrote: Cheating: 6. Posting or sharing any PM you receive from a host. | ||
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I do think Ace makes a reasonable case for why Marv's claim is bad and should be punished, but as a rule lynching blue claims D1 is bad. Sorry Ace. | ||
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On December 02 2012 06:56 marvellosity wrote: i thought you just agreed with Ace that i wasn't important to town? I agreed with Ace that your claim is bad and there's a chance you're scum. I'm sure scum gets fakeclaims so the role PM is meaningless. The reason you're not getting lynched is that you don't lynch blues D1. | ||
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On December 02 2012 07:01 VisceraEyes wrote: Not in DP fashion Marv, do you disagree? Actually VE is exactly right here. DP's attack on lazermonkey looks like how DP plays as scum, not how he plays as town. | ||
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On December 02 2012 07:02 marvellosity wrote: maybe because... I sent him a PM? :O :OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO or you asked him in the scum QT | ||
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On December 02 2012 07:04 debears wrote: ##Unvote Anyone down to lynch Ace? 1) He's being a dick 2) He's scummy and contributes little while most definitely reading 3) He keeps trying to shut me down Although all the statements you gave are true none of them actually mean Ace is scum | ||
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On December 02 2012 07:22 debears wrote: Funny, because I think I'd take a 1 on 1 trade of cop for scum at this point. The person who would be pushing marv at this point would be a cop if marv is not a cop. So that means you would most likely be the cop why would you ever make this post | ||
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On December 02 2012 07:39 MrZentor wrote: I want to kill DoYouHas. ##Unvote: Marvellosity ##Vote: DoYouHas I like where you're going but I'd like a bit more explanation. | ||
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##unvote ##vote DYH | ||
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On December 02 2012 07:49 debears wrote: I'm not switching to DYH this falls in line with your typical level of helpfullness this game | ||
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On December 02 2012 07:55 DoYouHas wrote: You guys are really last minute vote switching on to me... ugh. You think I'm not scumhunting? I found scum, I pursued him, and I spent the rest of my time trying to persuade the rest of you. Good luck all, you are going to need it. You vets should know better. These last minute switches never hit scum. Worked pretty well last game. Use your 3 minutes of life to explain your reads if you're really town | ||
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##vote DP | ||
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On December 02 2012 08:12 marvellosity wrote: DYH needs to make sure he claims his shot pre-deadline yes. | ||
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On December 02 2012 08:14 marvellosity wrote: maybe like, 1.5 hours before deadline???? damn you marv I hate you when you're right. I hate you so much. | ||
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On December 02 2012 08:15 austinmcc wrote: Things that we know:
We'll find out, but it's not guaranteed yet. Especially given that, approaching deadline, he gave out his reads in one post and then claimed vigi LATER in a separate post. The ordering and the timing on those posts doesn't make me smile. DYH is definitely not above suspicion. I just don't lynch claimed blues D1. But the way he claimed was probably... the worst possible way to claim and the least useful for town. | ||
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On December 02 2012 08:18 austinmcc wrote: That's fine, but...I did not expect posts like these from you guys:Both are ... more certain than I like? that DYH is a vigi Um, look dude DYH needs to make these claims specifically because he's a scummy ass and quite possibly not a vigi. He is not confirmed. He is not a town-read in my book. | ||
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On December 02 2012 08:18 wherebugsgo wrote: you don't lynch claimed blues on d1 out of policy because you're bad. Imagine every scum claimed some sort of blue d1, you're guaranteed to kill a townie day 1. This type of logic is just absurd. If every scum claimed blue D1 we'd win super easily... | ||
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On December 02 2012 08:22 wherebugsgo wrote: till the townies start claiming blue. you don't know what you're talking about. Also, my post was an extreme. Imagine one scum claims blue. Then what? He can just claim roleblock forever. I know exactly what i'm taking about. During D1, do not lynch claimed blues. You seem to have my policy confused with something else, because I've never seen someone claim roleblock forever on D1. | ||
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On December 02 2012 08:23 Xatalos wrote: If DYH actually is Vigi, then I guess I'm dead. I doubt he would have claimed at the last minute if he was fake claiming, even though it did save him after all, so who knows. In any case we now have two claimed blues and one dead VT. Not the greatest position at all, unless there's a liar among these two, which is a real possibility. At least we'll know if DYH actually was Vigi in 24 hours. Well no here's the thing: I doubt he'd have claimed last minute if his claim was TRUE. Like, if DYH claimed 30 minutes before deadline or whenever votes piled up on him it'd make sense, but why claim when there's almost no time for town to consolidate onto any wagon but DPs? This is why DYH has earned very little cred in my book. He escaped the D1 lynch but I extend him no more courtesy than that. | ||
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On December 02 2012 08:24 austinmcc wrote: : In your initial post, you didn't say "Claim your shot so we know." You were relieved we didn't lynch "the vigi." Not "the claimed vigi." Not "someone who might be vigi." Not "now we can figure out if that's a real claim or fakeclaim." Read that post of yours, your first one. It doesn't say unconfirmed, it doesn't hedge, it is absolutely certain that DYH is a vigi. Whatever, it's a wording thing. Scumslips don't exist. | ||
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On December 02 2012 08:28 MrZentor wrote: But BH, claiming 2 minutes before the deadline isn't optimal for the person who claims, regardless of whether the claim is true or not. So the time when DYH claimed vigil doesn't really tell us anything about his alignment. You are correct, and that is in fact what I was sort of getting at. DYH's Vigi claim meant lynching him D1 wasn't the best move. We should give him a chance to shoot and prove himself. It doesn't mean he's off the table for a D2 lynch in the slightest. | ||
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On December 02 2012 08:28 wherebugsgo wrote: the guy who claimed cop d1 dares call someone else stupid? well I guess it was a pretty smart move for you considering that you are scum and everyone else is too stupid to realize how much of a scummy move that was. WBG please, even assuming that we are stupid, you are a good contributor and an excellent arguer. We all have much to learn from you. I know that as town you can lead towns, even jubjub towns, onto good lynches. Why don't you try to be a bit less abrasive about this and we can talk more reasonably about marv, okay? | ||
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On December 02 2012 08:31 Xatalos wrote: Hmmm. I guess you're right if we assume that he estimated he might still be saved with that claim. But it was technically after the deadline, although the votes after that were still counted somehow, so I'm not so sure about that. I got the gut feeling that he would have claimed at least a bit earlier if it was a fake claim - not very likely too late. Like, what's the point in fake claiming after the deadline has passed? Something tells me it could very well be frustrated townie. But we'll see about that before tomorrow in any case. Yeah ultimately whatever we have to say about DYH will be informed by his called shot, and who's alive and who's dead when we wake up. | ||
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On December 02 2012 08:32 VisceraEyes wrote: 1) Blazinghand why is it okay for Marvelosity to call people retarded but not Bug? I decided I'm tired of people insulting each other so from now on whenever it happens I'm asking it to stop. On December 02 2012 08:32 VisceraEyes wrote: 2) Blazinghand, why was marv fake-claiming scum when votes were on him, but "gets a check tonight" now that he's not lynched? I'm not saying the DT should check him, I'm saying that with 2 blues claimed there's only a 50% chance he'll get blocked, so he can make a check. | ||
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On December 02 2012 09:40 wherebugsgo wrote: Go back and look at how BH switches his votes and how he reasons them. Look at how he attacks DP. I made by far the best case against DP, a solid (though as it turns out, ultimately incorrect) meta case. I sat down and did the homework on it. I'm gonna admit the reasoning on the MrZ vote was bad, but if your critique of my play is "BH swaps around a lot" then yeah okay I swap around a lot, but that's just how I roll. On December 02 2012 09:40 wherebugsgo wrote: Firstly, one could argue that voteswitching doesn't really tell us anything about how BH is scum or not. Sure, one could argue that, but then consider that BH doesn't do any work in pushing his targets either. He switches really often, usually with no attached reason, and he's so erratic that no one really knows what he's going to do or why he's going to do it. ALWAYS with an attached reason, usually because unlike you I actually try to interact with people in this thread and listen to what they have to say. I don't think people here are retarded. I don't like getting talked out of things, but if someone genuinely convinces me that a read is wrong, then yes I will unvote and vote someone else because my goal is to lynch scum. On December 02 2012 09:40 wherebugsgo wrote: As town I feel like BH usually at least gives reasons for attacking people. It looks as if he feigned contribution on DP/Zentor, Zentor was a mistake, but I DID put in lots of work on both him and DP. just because I use links instead of quotes to make my meta cases more legible doesn't mean they're bad. On December 02 2012 09:40 wherebugsgo wrote: and stuff like this: suggests that he's more concerned with his appearance than actually finding scum. What? It suggests that I'm dubious of people on my wagon but I'm still confident in my read. On December 02 2012 09:40 wherebugsgo wrote: What's especially weird is his vote switches between DP and DYH. These are just done for no reason at all and he never states why his suspicion of either changes as he does it. Lastly, I haven't heard anyone yet say that they find BH to be townie. Notice how people consistently call him scum (even marv did) and no one really considers him town, but there's always a different target with the attention on them. I trust MrZ's read and I thought it was reasonable. I still think it's reasonable and DYH is scummy, and I swapped back to DP because I don't lynch blues D1. | ||
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On December 02 2012 10:03 Keirathi wrote: This is the part that I disagree with. He pointed out a direct counter-point to your claim, but that didn't change anything? "Herp derp, Here's what DP only does when he's scum." "Oh wait, he did that as town before too? DOESN'T MATTER STILL SCUM." That's such faulty logic that I find it hard to believe that you actually believed that. The case itself was fine, but when presented evidence to the contrary, you just didn't care and kept on tunneling. I'm either tunnelling or wishy-washy you can't have it both ways | ||
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On December 02 2012 09:54 wherebugsgo wrote: the "best case" on DP was still garbage, and despite the fact that I pointed that out repeatedly you managed (along with derpellosity over here) to still tunnel him to death. So, BH, if you are town, who is scum then? currently DYH, will have more closer to daybreak | ||
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On December 02 2012 10:08 Blazinghand wrote: currently DYH, will have more closer to daybreak subject of course to night acitons | ||
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On December 03 2012 07:00 wherebugsgo wrote: seeing as DYH is probably also town, and scum don't give a fuck about killing townies, I never understood how this argument is supposed to even mean anything. Switching between two townies makes no difference to scum. ok but look at this reasonably, if I'm scum then I believe DYH's claim, right? Why not lynch the vigi? | ||
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thats right your argument just got pierced by spears of shining golden logic | ||
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If I die, I guess I'll look like an ass: but trust. Trust what I've done. | ||
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On December 03 2012 07:15 Keirathi wrote: Scum BH wouldn't have gotten MORE flak because he left his vote on the claimed vig. But he definitely would have gotten flak anyways, because his vote on DYH was nonsensical to begin with. "left his vote" Do you even know how much time there was between the claim and the deadline? rofl | ||
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On December 03 2012 07:15 Blazinghand wrote: "left his vote" Do you even know how much time there was between the claim and the deadline? rofl btw apparently you don't, but i'll make it clear: DYH claimed at 8:00. The deadline was at 8:00, and I leaped into action and IN THE SECONDS BETWEEN HIS CLAIM AND THE FLIP, I moved my vote. Would I look bad cause i was afk for like 30 seconds? | ||
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On December 03 2012 07:17 Keirathi wrote: Of course I do. I do know how to read. I said you WOULDN'T have gotten more flak for leaving your vote there. It would have been natural to say "Oh he claimed vig and I didn't have time to move my vote." But your vote in itself was fucking BAD. I SAVED THE CLAIMER. My vote was RIGHTEOUS. | ||
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On December 03 2012 07:18 MrZentor wrote: The only reason that Keirathi is making this ridiculous case is because he wasn't there. He doesn't realize how little time there was between DYH's claim and the end of the day. Its easy to not take into account the amount of time between posts when you were put in the game after the posts occurred. That's very generous of you, but Keirathi apparently DID read the timestamps. He's just a half-animate semi-pancake. | ||
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On December 03 2012 07:21 sandroba wrote: @DYH If you are vigi, which I believe you are, I would just flip a coin and shoot BH/Zealos, they are both scum. DYH if you're a vigi you know I had no reason to save you unless I'm town. At least show up in the thread dood | ||
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On December 03 2012 07:20 Keirathi wrote: I was on the replacements list. I've been reading this game post-by-post as they happen. I didn't have to go back and read everything to catch up. I'm 100% aware of how little time there was. Yeah this just confirms that you are not only in fact a semi-pancake, but even a hemi-pancake. | ||
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All your cases rely on these weird WIFOMy tactics like me trying to be like risen from half a year ago, in a game I think I was modkilled in (though maybe that was a different one), or me intentionally letting a claimed vigi live when there's already a claimed DT... even though I've "scumslipped" that scum has no RB. I just don't get how you don't see the simplest explanation, which is that I saved the claimed vigi because I, a town player, wanted him to live. | ||
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On December 03 2012 07:34 Keirathi wrote: Because if you are town, you would have immediately come into the thread and said "Hey wait, I was scum that game not town!", making him look bad. Retracting the case was his only option from either alignment, so it's a null tell. And somehow this argument applies, but your case on me largely rests on me NOT paying attention to holes in the D case? | ||
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MrZ is town. I trust him and on top of that he's the only guy making real sense about me. ShiapPi is town. I base this on the fact that he's been reading the thread Zealos is Tenatively town. explained here http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=17087816 VE for all his faults is appearing town to me, but the VE I know is usually a bit more invested. He hasn't been great but he's been willing to call out WBG (link). I don't like his attack on Xala but he explains it well enough (link) Austinmcc - town. as town talks a lot about player's motivations and thinks his reads through. talks openly in long-ish posts quoting plenty of people. no scum meta available. I don't like Marv as much as I'd like. Marv always looks reasonably town to me, but some of his attacks, such as that on DP here (link) and his interactions with ace this game have seem forced and his mentionings of ace seem artificial (link) I don't like Keirathi either (oh yes I'm attacking the two guys attacking me) because of his attack on me. Keirathi should know me, and should know better. Not logically consistent. DYH needs to be examined after night actions, but I suspect town based on claim timing. bad town, but town. <3 | ||
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On December 03 2012 08:24 Keirathi wrote: EBWOP: Me holding RB on n1 to claim it myself in GSL Mini 1. scum does that all the time | ||
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##vote Keirathi | ||
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On December 03 2012 15:50 Keirathi wrote: You still haven't made an actual argument against my case, or the no-roleblocker assumption. You just keep calling me bad/stupid. I made an argument against your case, which is that earlier in the night I assume, and state clearly, that I expect one of the two of them to be blocked. The fact that you continue to opt out of the discussion means you're intentionally avoiding being helpful. You're a smart guy, and you're not playing like you do as town. Your blood shall run red. | ||
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You have refused to share your thoughts, develop scumreads, talk about flips, or do ANYTHING but tunnel me and respond to the numerous people who have defended me in thread. This "looks" like aggressive town but it's not. What this is is scum OPTING OUT of the discourse. Just like Djoref did in Mario, because it's an easy way to look town as scum. A town player has lots of things to share, but you have NOTHING. All you have is tunnelling me. That's a great way to avoid giving reads and revealing your scum motive, and you're better than that. Most townies are better than that. This is scum play, it's play against the town, and I won't stand for it. Your blood shall flow a beautiful crimson. | ||
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I've seen this before, and the only motivation is that you're scum. ez. | ||
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On December 03 2012 16:16 Keirathi wrote: What the hell is there to say about the flips/shots/VE being scum? They are facts that everyone can see. What have you said about them, btw? I haven't weighed in on them yet, and I haven't done any associative tell analysis either. But there's a lot to say (besides of course that DYH is the vigi), especially given that VE, and people's interactions with VE, left behind what I'm sure is plenty of stuff to look at from D1. You can turn the question around on me if you like-- yes, I haven't weighed in on that yet, but you know what I have done? Shared reads on tons of people since the start of D1, since the start of N1 even. I'm an open book, Keirathi. | ||
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Well I'll check out this case on ShiaoPi. I have a townread on him but now that he's posted etc I'll see what's up. I'll also take some time to address your concerns about Keirathi. | ||
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I don't like that he backs of Xalatos in his big post on page 59. I don't think Xalatos is any townier now than he was yesterday. He says he has a "clear scumtell" from Xatalos but the voting pattern doesn't line up. I disagree with this, and I think ShiaoPi would realize that scum would much rather shoot than push Marv, who is a dangerous player as town. In fact, Marv is known for getting shot N1. I just don't think that ShiaoPi would reread Xalatos filter, and find him scummy but say that Xalatos' saving grace is that he didn't vote Marv. Scum shot marv-- they always had the ability to do so. I like that he voted Keirathi, because Keirathi is scum. But ShaioPi's thoughts on Xalatos are not consistent with someone who is thinking critically about Xatalos' play and finding him scummy but with exceptions. I'd be willing to consider a ShiaoPi lynch today if people aren't willing to get on board with Keirathi. As it stands, though Keirathi is a better lynch. The fact that this is his chief contribution aside from defending himself and tunnelling me is apalling. On December 04 2012 04:03 Keirathi wrote: Strong opinions? Not particularly. I'm minorly interested in ShiaoPi/Zealos/(kinda)austin, outside of BH. (Maybe MrZ too, but I have no fucking clue how to read him.) Zealos because he hasn't done a damn thing. ShiaoPi because he didn't seem very invested in the game day 1, was happy to go along with the BH lynch while it was the popular opinion, and then happily changed his mind again as soon as the popular opinion was that BH was probably town. austin just because he's hard to read and he played follow-the-leader with his voting, which kind of reminds me of how he played in aperture. pure waffling. Where are your reads? where's your pressure, Keirathi? You are scum trying to wriggle out of the spotlight now that you've realized your case on me is revealed for what it is! | ||
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2) the fact that ShiaoPi voted Keirathi, who is scum, isn't meta 3) the fact that Keirathi is still refusing to contribute isn't meta I know exactly what I am talking about. | ||
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On December 04 2012 11:03 wherebugsgo wrote: more bad meta usage. gtfo, you don't know what you're talking about. This isn't helping the town atmosphere, this is smacking down a guy trying to help. It's weird he thinks of me as scum but wants to lynch ShiaoPi, also. On December 04 2012 07:01 wherebugsgo wrote: your argument falls down to basically "you're not scum because you didn't wreck the thread by arguing with me like you did with Erandorr." If you can't see where that logic falls on its face then yes, you are indeed so biased that I was correct in ignoring you. Why would I make the same mistake twice? you say that as if it was foreseeable. On December 04 2012 07:07 wherebugsgo wrote: didn't really have one, since I didn't look into his posts on d1. I think I read his posts more carefully after BH said he found DYH to be scummy. My concern was more with why people were ignoring other players such as Lazer, Zealos, etc. (all the lurkers/coasters) and why BH + marv would ever think DP was scum. On December 04 2012 07:35 wherebugsgo wrote: I did, and I thought marv was scummier. On December 04 2012 07:42 DoYouHas wrote: While I've got you here bugs. Can you give me your thoughts on my Lazermonkey case? (Clicky) WBG dodges DYH's question and explains himself, but he doesn't press debears, asking him for his own reads, and he doesn't call people out asking for their top scumreads and asking why. WBG makes posts like this: On December 04 2012 08:19 wherebugsgo wrote: cool, I was right. You're biased and bad. Let's move on. On December 02 2012 09:58 wherebugsgo wrote: also I find it ironic that you are trying to discredit me now when you tried to use past results to justify that your trash case on DP. When he could be making more posts like this: On December 02 2012 09:54 wherebugsgo wrote: the "best case" on DP was still garbage, and despite the fact that I pointed that out repeatedly you managed (along with derpellosity over here) to still tunnel him to death. So, BH, if you are town, who is scum then? which he notably hasn't done except in like his first post of the game and that quoted post. WBG is actively inhibiting the thread, attempts to scumhunt, and people trying to ask questions, state theories, and generally interact smoothly as town. | ||
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Keirathi is still probably scum, and I still don't like ShiaoPi, but the WBG we have here is playing with scum motives and pushing his scum agenda. ##unvote ##vote WBG time to stop him. | ||
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On December 04 2012 12:27 Keirathi wrote: Marv agreed with my read of BH. On December 03 2012 05:19 marvellosity wrote: BH I just don't know. I raged at him in Mario on several occasions for what I viewed as retarded plays (voting someone he just called town and calling him scum with no reason). I can see town BH tunnelling someone even when holes have been picked in his case. I don't actually know how to have a scumread on BH :/ | ||
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##unvote keirathi ##vote WBG | ||
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On December 04 2012 12:02 DoYouHas wrote: I think my vote analysis of Lazer is sound, and is enough to make him a great lynch, which is why I haven't really dug into him. Clearly the rest of you don't agree, and would prefer a wall of text case -_-. This is literally DYH being lazy because he's confirmed town. He is making a case against Lazer based on something other than Lazer's filter. I have a townread on Lazer, though I don't think he's leonardo di nostradamus or anything but he's hunting scum and pushing a town agenda. People who want to push Lazer need to provide a reason why LM is scummy, beyond VE soft-defending him and not mentioning him much/enough. You're doing your associative tells backwards. I have no read on Zealos. I had a townread on him based on how he played through D1 but he hasn't been around, so he's inactive I don't like how Xatalos has been noncomittal, but this seems more like an honest open townie thing than a scum player trying to avoid giving reads. I'm telegraphing this from the way he's phrasing things and how he's interacting with others in the thread. MrZentor has been sticking to my ass like day-old bubble gum but he's reasoning things out and I think we genuinely just are in agreement about most things. Town. | ||
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Remember WBG's reaction to Marv's case? Where Marv points out that WBG asked a bunch of questions WBG he won't follow up on (and I note WBG always follows up and presses on his questions)? How did WBG react to that? On December 02 2012 05:48 wherebugsgo wrote: How does he know what I think based on one post I made at the time? He says I had no intention on following up on my questions, before i had posted anything. ??? He calls out Zealos at some point for misrepresentation, yet this is as shining of an example of misrepresentation as one could ever find. ##unvote Zealos ##vote marvellosity Classic OMGUS. but also, WBG's meta defense is basically that he INTENDS to follow up on his question. There's no follow up, because this is no town WBG. Those questions are red herrings, thrown out there to make him look town. But they aren't herrings! They are albatrosses, which will hang around his slender neck and drag him to the gallows for us. Join me: lynch WBG today. | ||
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wbg also is always an aggro player the fact he posfs a lot thos game is nkt a tosn tell | ||
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explain now before flip | ||
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ok driving now | ||
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im yoda | ||
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On November 30 2012 08:25 Blazinghand wrote: Man ace why would you go shooting my boy MrZ like that On December 01 2012 10:10 Blazinghand wrote: Actually I take back the entire case on MrZ, I TAKE IT ALL BACK. DONT PAY ATTENTION TO IT ITS BAD ##unvote My reason I gave was "oh he was actually town, not scum in one game" but i dont' reference that game in my case really i just forgot On December 03 2012 07:14 Blazinghand wrote: If I die, I guess I'll look like an ass: but trust. Trust what I've done. final crumb cause DYH might hav been shot me be on in 10 On December 02 2012 07:47 Blazinghand wrote: Yeah that's reasonable austin. I trust MrZ too ##unvote ##vote DYH | ||
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On December 05 2012 06:59 Keirathi wrote: Bah, fine DYH is forcing my hand. WBG and I are MASONS Now can we please vote ShiaoPi for the love of god? On December 05 2012 07:35 Keirathi wrote: Here's my role PM: You are Big Bird. You can chat with your fellow muppet, wherebugsgo, outside of the thread. (Mason) nice color coding. Masons are definitely blue, not green. You are Yoda. A member of the Jedi Council. You know your fellow councilmember, MrZentor, is town. You may communicate with them outside the thread. (mason) | ||
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On December 05 2012 07:44 Keirathi wrote: Oh of course we're not, since yours is the one that's different from both the confirmed flips. Convenient! Also there's the fact that MrZ and I have been helping town all game and you and WBG, my two top scumreads, have been working against town and are scummy as hell. | ||
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On December 05 2012 07:45 Keirathi wrote: ##Unvote: ShiaoPi ##Vote: BlazingHand Wrong PM highlighting, terrible day 1 that doesn't match his town meta AT ALL, and HE MADE A FUCKING CASE AGAINST HIS OWN MASON PARTNER? Don't be dumb. If you want to lynch into the masons to test who is scum or not, lynch into the claim that doesn't make any fucking sense. lol die scum | ||
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On December 05 2012 07:57 Lazermonkey wrote: Not only that but his mason partner also counter claimed in a position where there would make 0% for scum to do so. I like how everything I do this game makes 0% sense for scum to do and Keirathi still thinks i'm scum. nice. | ||
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scum lives among: Debears, Shiao, Austin, Lazer, Xata, Sand Keirathi you can claim I didn't refute your meta case all you want but I refuted the shit out of it. | ||
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Keirathi man up, we got a game to win. Being a negative nancy and flaming is not how we're going to do it. | ||
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On December 05 2012 08:08 Keirathi wrote: @BH: Where? Quote me the post. I refuted the hell out of it by doing stuff that never makes sense unless I'm town. Saving DYH, the mason claim, etc. Your "meta" case, which doesn't reference any of my scum games, is crap, just like the "meta" case against me in Mario Mini based on the same thought: "BH is playing differently than usual, but not like ANY of his scum games. He must be scum!" When in fact that's not a meta case, that's lazy/bad play. I thought you were scum but with your mason partner flipped you are confirmed town. I'm disconcerted at how you have chosen to play, but we must push forwards now and find scum. With 3 (4 with DYH) confirmed town and 6 unconfirmed players we are in a strong position. You can make yourself irrelevant with wrong-headed attacks on me, or you can help us win this game. The choice is yours. | ||
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First off, Kei is town. He's been not as helpful as he's capable of, and is insistent on tunnelling me, and he's scummy as hell and refuses to meaningfully contribute to scumhunting unless strongarmed into it, but he's the other half of a confirmed mason pair for which one flipped. He's town. This isn't a bastard mod game so there's no reason to doubt his claim. To me MrZ is town. I've laid out why the two of us are town and if you have a town read on me (which you should, given that everything I've done all game is help town in a way that makes 0 sense for scum) then you should have a town read on him. He is my Mason partner, and my mod PM tells me so. DYH is town. Some people may have doubts, but the Vigi claim with like 20 seconds left before he gets lynched, which occures at 08:00 when he knew he was gonna flip, tells me he's really the vigi. Yes, he's playing like a lazy ass since D1, and yes, he was scummy D1, but he's confirmed town and beyond reproach. I'd like to see him make a case against LM that actually, say, talks about how LM has played but there's nothing I can do to make him do that. In any case: he's town This leaves us with 4 confirmed players, and 6 unconfirmed players. Scum will gradually shoot into the confirmed players while we lynch into the unconfirmed players, and assuming there are 3 scum, 1 kp, and no weirdness with a Doctor (reasonable given the number of claims so far) we have 1 mislynch before LYLO. BH confirmed Ace/Kei confirmed MrZ confirmed DYH confirmed DYH I don't think you're particularly going down a rabit hole. There are 6 players who aren't confirmed and probably 3 scum among them. Assuming we lynch carefully I don't see this being a huge problem. I don't think sandroba or debears are scum, but sandroba hasn't done an amazing job of acquitting himself. debears has been open with his reads and interacting with people attempting to flesh out his reads. He's not afraid to say dumb things, then retract them, which indicates a town-like fearlessness to me. Debears town. Sandro has made some decent posts but I wouldn't give him a strong townread like I give debears, but he's not scummy. I don't like that Xatalos has been fairly inactive in the past few days, contributing a relatively small number of posts. That being said, his interactions with WBG trying to reason out reads, and his defense of WBG early in D2 sounds reasonable and townie to me. He's clearly watching the thread for scummy moves and updating his analysis-- look how he gradually develops a townread on Kei and affirms his on WBG throughout D2, then when MrZ swaps over to WBG (because I asked him to) Xatalos immediately thinks something is up since this wasn't something MrZ would do on his own. The fact that Xatalos is being this analytical makes him my top town-read. This guy isn't posting a whirlwind of posts but he's smart, he's reading the thread, and he's trying to figure things out. He catches small things that doesn't make sense and calls them out. He is town. Xatalos - Town+++ debears - Town ish Dandel/Sandro - Town ish Shiaopi is a sheep. I think that much has been made clear over and over again in the thread. I don't think he's an amazing lynch though, because a lot of his sheeping has been basically what you'd expect a newer player to do. I don't like that he keeps on stalling and saying he'll be back later. I don't like that he hasn't been contributing. I don't think he should be our lynch tomorrow though. Not just for playing like a newb. I'd rather lynch him than debears or sandro, but not by much. LM - DYH clearly doesn't want to write an actual case against LM because he's a lazy ass, despite my prodding. I'll help a brotha out. First off, when LM attacks Zealos early in D1 he clearly isn't paying close attention to Zealos and getting a scumread on him, he's attacking first then trying to find things to substantiate his attack. Take a look at his attack on Zealos in which he asks zealos about soft-defending a guy then quotes him hard defending a guy. His early attacks on shiaopi doens't make sense, and he responds to DP with an OMGUS. I don't like how he's played, or how he hasn't tried to develop his reads in a meaningful way with other players D1. I will say though that since he was a lynch target that could have intefered with it. He is not as scummy as austin. Austin. I don't like either of his D1 cases. I don't like that he didn't specify a top scumread until asked about it later. His interactions with VE are wooden On December 01 2012 03:44 austinmcc wrote: Beyond debears and Ace's marv vote, did anything, or the lack of some things, interest you? On December 01 2012 11:06 austinmcc wrote: Wat? I'm assuming I said this in a past game? On December 01 2012 11:38 austinmcc wrote: Not me. I have a super secret method of reading you. On December 02 2012 05:12 austinmcc wrote: Why exactly are you voting Xatalos? He's scum hiding inside a tunnel = he's doing nothing but tunneling someone as a way to look active when he's doing nothing? None of this even remotely compares to how he interacts with, say, debears, or other players where he asks pointed questions, writes long responses, etc. He's trying to fake a "friendly banter" with VE here. I don't like it, especially in context of what I've written above. It sounds ungenuine and faked. Shiao - scum ish LM - scum ish austin - scum If I wake up dead, my recommendation is to lynch austin. | ||
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peace + Show Spoiler + <Blazinghand> then I'll be like, a few minutes later "because it was LARGE. LARGE." <Blazinghand> and then you can be like "wow way to brick that shot, blazinghand. I thought you had good jokes" <Blazinghand> maybe i'll use a different joke than a penis joke <MrZentor> XD <MrZentor> Best mason buddy ever <Blazinghand> in any case, I was thinking about mason tactics <Blazinghand> it might be easiest if we just never attack each other ever <MrZentor> I think I might just say something about 4 or 7 <MrZentor> Traditionally medieval stonemasons served a seven-year apprenticeship. A similar system still operates today. A modern apprenticeship lasts four years. <Blazinghand> ok <Blazinghand> whatever works for you <MrZentor> I think that brick might be a little too <MrZentor> Well <MrZentor> Obvious <MrZentor> I might just be being <MrZentor> PARANOID <Blazinghand> so I guess you might want to use a different crumb <Blazinghand> nobody ever finds my crumbs because I post like <Blazinghand> 40 posts per day <MrZentor> Yeah.. * Disconnected (An established connection was aborted by the software in your host machine). * Disconnected (Connection reset by peer). * Disconnected (An established connection was aborted by the software in your host machine). <MrZentor> do you believe marv's claim <Blazinghand> um <Blazinghand> not really but you can't lynch a claimed blue D1 <MrZentor> there isn't much time <MrZentor> :/ <MrZentor> Who should we lynch <Blazinghand> well I still kinda like DP. But what are your thoughts <Blazinghand> my reads this game haven't been as good as I'd like <MrZentor> Yeah, I usually can find somebody I'm sure is mafia <MrZentor> but this game is weird <MrZentor> I'd like to kill DoYouHas <Blazinghand> ah what's the case on him <MrZentor> But I don't think I can convince the whole town in an hour <Blazinghand> hm <MrZentor> Welll <Blazinghand> so I mean i'd be okay with a DYH lynch <Blazinghand> he's one of my null reads <MrZentor> His posts are funny <MrZentor> All mechanical <MrZentor> and uptight <MrZentor> read them <Blazinghand> so my current reads are shiapi town, VE town, Zealos semi town, austinmcc town, DP scum, marv scum <Blazinghand> everyone else null <MrZentor> I thought debears was town <MrZentor> and I think DP is too <Blazinghand> hm <Blazinghand> okay so we could go for DYH <Blazinghand> i mean we don't need to convince tha tmany people <Blazinghand> almost no-one has more than like 2 votes <MrZentor> Yeah it's weird <Blazinghand> have you posted a DYH case? I could be like "yeah I agree" and vote for him <MrZentor> idk <MrZentor> meh DP might be scum <Blazinghand> well like i'm not actually as sure on DP as I claim to be in the thread <Blazinghand> the meta case isn't great <Blazinghand> I always put a strong face forwards though because how people react tells us about them <Blazinghand> I personally think he's a solid lynch <Blazinghand> but DYH could also be a good lynch <Blazinghand> I'll read his filter now <Blazinghand> no matter what, you and I will never be lynched btw <Blazinghand> because we are masons <MrZentor> Yeah <Blazinghand> so don't worry about that <MrZentor> Unless we go afk <MrZentor> or something <Blazinghand> lol <Blazinghand> yeah <MrZentor> DP just seems a little too loose and care free to be mafia <MrZentor> meh <MrZentor> But how he jumps on you for bizarre behavior <MrZentor> attacking me <MrZentor> then saying im not scum <MrZentor> When that's just bizarre behavior and not scum behavior <Blazinghand> DP and I do have a bit of a history of butting heads <Blazinghand> so I didn't notice that in particular <Blazinghand> but that's a good point <MrZentor> I'm going to get Marv to post his pm <Blazinghand> oh he uh <Blazinghand> can't do that <MrZentor> look what I posted <MrZentor> But it says he can <Blazinghand> ah <MrZentor> yeah idk <Blazinghand> so <Blazinghand> a DYH switch is possible <MrZentor> yeah I'm gonna go for it <MrZentor> Also you're whole <Blazinghand> hm <MrZentor> Zentor I like where you're goint but I need some more explanation <MrZentor> thing <MrZentor> was so faked I nearly burst out laughing <MrZentor> XD <Blazinghand> LOL <Blazinghand> i'm really bad at faking interactions <Blazinghand> I'm actually like probably one of the worst scum players <MrZentor> I'm having doubts about DYH after his last post <MrZentor> :/ <Blazinghand> LOL <Blazinghand> don't <Blazinghand> those posts are meaningles <Blazinghand> scum always makes that post <Blazinghand> so does town <MrZentor> I know, but it always scares me. <Blazinghand> everyone makes that post <Blazinghand> that post is a null tell <Blazinghand> if he was scum or town he makes that post <MrZentor> I always feel sorry for them though <MrZentor> :/ <Blazinghand> your case against him still stands <Blazinghand> if he's town he played in a way to get lynched <Blazinghand> and if he's scum, we shall celebrate in 3 minutes <Blazinghand> SWAP <Blazinghand> SWAP NOW TO DP <MrZentor> NOOOOOOOOO <MrZentor> too late <MrZentor> ARGH <Blazinghand> lol I didn't even have time to boldface <MrZentor> yeah <MrZentor> I just copy pasted yours as soon as I could <MrZentor> It would be hilarious if the mods mod-killed all the people who posted after hopeless's post <Blazinghand> LOL <Blazinghand> oh man i'm excited <MrZentor> lol <MrZentor> I'm pretty sure we killed DYH <Blazinghand> no I don't think we did <Blazinghand> I think by 1 vote <Blazinghand> we killed DP <MrZentor> Really? <MrZentor> lol look at DP <MrZentor> his post <Blazinghand> LOL <MrZentor> XD <Blazinghand> oh man <Blazinghand> that anger <MrZentor> full of rage <Blazinghand> also like <MrZentor> I bet he's vanilla town <MrZentor> lol <Blazinghand> yeah honestly <Blazinghand> he's gonna get modkilled for that <Blazinghand> since he's the one getting lynched <Blazinghand> and he's posting after the lynch deadline <MrZentor> yeah he died <MrZentor> vanilla <MrZentor> townie <MrZentor> Assuming the two claims are genuine <MrZentor> The mafia knows our cop <MrZentor> and our vigil <MrZentor> Greatttt <Blazinghand> so yeah mafia is gonna RB DYH <Blazinghand> and shoot Marv <Blazinghand> like 100% <Blazinghand> there's probably one other blue out there <Blazinghand> maybe a JK or a town RB <Blazinghand> hey uh <Blazinghand> what's your role name <Blazinghand> btw <Blazinghand> i'm Yoda <MrZentor> What <Blazinghand> debears is talking about like <Blazinghand> role name / fluff stuff <MrZentor> Mace windu <Blazinghand> ok what's the wording of your PM <Blazinghand> one sec <MrZentor> idk who that is <Blazinghand> he's a jedy master <Blazinghand> like yoda <MrZentor> You are Mace Windu. A member of the Jedi Council. You know your fellow councilmember, BlazingHand, is town. You may communicate with them outside the thread. (mason) <Blazinghand> You are Yoda. A member of the Jedi Council. You know your fellow councilmember, MrZentor, is town. You may communicate with them outside the thread. (mason) <Blazinghand> yeah <Blazinghand> I dunno what debears is thinking <Blazinghand> I think the "jedi council" fluff is just for us though <Blazinghand> so we shouldn't claim our names or fluff because scum might figure out we're blue from it <Blazinghand> oh wait <Blazinghand> ok no DP's role <Blazinghand> was star wars related <Blazinghand> so he has the same fluff as us <Blazinghand> ok yeah marv has different fluff <Blazinghand> but the wording of his pm is the same <Blazinghand> I don't think we can on fluff grounds say marv is scum <MrZentor> So we have starwars fluff <MrZentor> and he has mythbusters fluff <Blazinghand> yeah there could easily be two types of fluff in this game <Blazinghand> I asked DYH to post his fluff <Blazinghand> that could give us more info <MrZentor> Wait <MrZentor> DP had battlestart galactica fluff <Blazinghand> oh <Blazinghand> lol <Blazinghand> I am not like <MrZentor> just googled it lol <Blazinghand> gotcha <Blazinghand> so it's all from different shows <Blazinghand> so the fluff theme is "shows and movies" * Disconnected (An established connection was aborted by the software in your host machine). <Blazinghand> in case i'm shot tonight, i'm leaving a crumb for you <Blazinghand> it'll be based on the word "trust" <Blazinghand> it'll let you confirm a mason claim if I flip <MrZentor> k <MrZentor> if they're planning on shooting you <MrZentor> we should claim before they do <Blazinghand> huh <Blazinghand> no no <Blazinghand> then SCUM will shoot us <Blazinghand> if DYH shoot sme so be it <MrZentor> no <Blazinghand> we'll still have 2 confirmed townies tomorrow <MrZentor> I'd rather scum waste a shot <MrZentor> than our vigi <Blazinghand> hm <Blazinghand> so you want to claim? <Blazinghand> there's an hour left <Blazinghand> want to do so now? <Blazinghand> you there? <MrZentor> OkaWait <MrZentor> Say something like <Blazinghand> I'm just gonna post my role PM and say "I'm mason with MRZ" <Blazinghand> you do the same thign at the same time <Blazinghand> and we'll be good <MrZentor> No wait <MrZentor> You saved DYH <Blazinghand> yeah <Blazinghand> I mentioned that <MrZentor> When you could have easily let him die <Blazinghand> in thread <Blazinghand> are you reading the thread? <MrZentor> Yes <MrZentor> Say directly to doyouhas <MrZentor> That there is no reason for scum to do that <Blazinghand> ok <MrZentor> except if they were saving their scum buddy <MrZentor> so basically you're townie in DYH's eyes <MrZentor> if he is vigil <Blazinghand> so uh you want me to not claim or to claim? <MrZentor> yet <MrZentor> at least <MrZentor> Dont claim <Blazinghand> ok <MrZentor> If that doesn't work we'll claim <Blazinghand> he might not even be around <Blazinghand> i'll ask if he's around <Blazinghand> because if he's not around honestly it doesn't matter <MrZentor> wait if somebody dies during the night <MrZentor> their action still goes through right <Blazinghand> yes <MrZentor> I can't tell if Keir is being stupid <MrZentor> or if he's mafia trying to get you killed <Blazinghand> yeah... <Blazinghand> hard to tell <Blazinghand> i'm leaning scummy on him atm but honestly this isn't enough to make a read. <MrZentor> I always assume that if people are replaced <MrZentor> they're town <Blazinghand> well, most hosts replace all people, town OR scum <Blazinghand> in Mario Mini, Djoref replaced in for thrawn and he was scum <MrZentor> yeah but I think somebody who is scum <MrZentor> would want to stay in the game <MrZentor> than a normal townie <MrZentor> It might be because I enjoy being scum way more than I should <Blazinghand> that's not good logic imo <Blazinghand> people often replace because like shit happens in their lives <MrZentor> I like how everybody posts after the mod says to not post <MrZentor> XD <Blazinghand> everyone was waiting until exactly 0800 forum time to drop their huge posts <MrZentor> Yeah <MrZentor> This is the second time though <MrZentor> <Blazinghand> lol <Blazinghand> man these have been some aciton packed deadlines <MrZentor> yeah <Blazinghand> okay, so the question I guess is do we want to claim tomorrow <MrZentor> It reminds me of Death factory mafia <MrZentor> man <MrZentor> that was intense <Blazinghand> I specced that game <Blazinghand> it was sweet <MrZentor> Probably <Blazinghand> I guess the real thing is to see if there's a wagon on me or not <Blazinghand> like, if not, there's no real reason to claim <MrZentor> "MrZentor seems Lol" <MrZentor> What is that supposed to me <MrZentor> an <Blazinghand> I have no idea <Blazinghand> I think you actually look very town for the hard defense of me <Blazinghand> scum doesn't do hard defenses of anyone, really <MrZentor> I look more town than I usually do.. <Blazinghand> not in the middle of the night <MrZentor> I want to see who died <MrZentor> <MrZentor> WOOT <MrZentor> VE THE GOON <Blazinghand> NICE <MrZentor> "Mafia Goon. You may carry an NK. You win with scum. Your team consists of yeah right, that would be embarrassing." <MrZentor> lol <Blazinghand> lol <Blazinghand> nice <Blazinghand> so I don't like keirathi's attack of me a huge amount, but I'm not sure whether that makes him scum or not <MrZentor> yeahh <MrZentor> I also don't know how to take his <MrZentor> nice shot response <Blazinghand> meh, it's fluff <Blazinghand> as town you'd say that to congratulate DYH <Blazinghand> as scum you'd do the same <MrZentor> So we have 3 confirmed townies <MrZentor> out of 4 people <MrZentor> 12 <MrZentor> people <Blazinghand> right <Blazinghand> which means in the remaining 9 the 3 scum lurk <Blazinghand> what's your read on debears? <MrZentor> Hmm <MrZentor> that was Ve's first vote <MrZentor> so idk <Blazinghand> VE busses all the time <Blazinghand> I guess we should see how HE interacts with VE <Blazinghand> rather than vice versa <MrZentor> But still <MrZentor> the first vote? <MrZentor> idk <Blazinghand> the first vote makes even more sense than a later vote <Blazinghand> because you usually move away from the first vote <Blazinghand> at some point <MrZentor> Let me see <MrZentor> ##Vote: dabears <MrZentor> ##Vote: Xatalos <MrZentor> ##Unvote ##Vote: Zealos <MrZentor> ##Unvote ##Vote: DarthPunk <MrZentor> ##Unvote: DarthPunk ##Vote: DoYouHas <Blazinghand> yeah see given how much he moved his vote around <MrZentor> Yeah <MrZentor> Wow <Blazinghand> the fact that his first vote was for debears <Blazinghand> doesn't really mean anything imo <MrZentor> I'm getting really sick of Keirathi <Blazinghand> he might just be scum pushing scum agenda * MrZentor has quit (Quit: Page closed) * Disconnected (Connection reset by peer). <Blazinghand> yo i'm back <Blazinghand> catching up with thread now <MrZentor> idk... <Blazinghand> yo <Blazinghand> so what are your reads right now <Blazinghand> I'm iffy on Shiao and I still think Keirathi is a solid lynch <Blazinghand> though he looks a bit better now <MrZentor> Dandelion/Sandroba----- WBG ShiaoPi Austinmcc LazerMonkey <Blazinghand> as your scumreads? <MrZentor> The people I don't think are town <MrZentor> basically <MrZentor> I'm not as sure about Keirathi as I was <Blazinghand> I see <Blazinghand> let's talk about WBG <MrZentor> What do you think of gim? <MrZentor> c: <MrZentor> him <Blazinghand> I don't like him, but all I have is a general feel that he's scummy <Blazinghand> I feel like a town WBG is more useful than this WBG <MrZentor> Yeah I've never been able to read WBG <MrZentor> I'm hoping he gets shot during the next night phase <Blazinghand> looking at his filter he seems confrontational and aggressive but not as helpful, not as willing to draw out other players into conversations <Blazinghand> I'm not sure WBG is actually contributing to the town atmosphere. <Blazinghand> yo man <Blazinghand> you there? <Blazinghand> I'm voting WBG <Blazinghand> dude <MrZentor> Hmm <Blazinghand> check my case <Blazinghand> let me know what you think <Blazinghand> i just posted a vote as well <MrZentor> Hmm <MrZentor> It was good in that you showed he wasn't promoting a good town environment <Blazinghand> I see no reason for WBG to do this <Blazinghand> other than that he's scum <MrZentor> You should have said something like <Blazinghand> I can add it in now <MrZentor> WBG should know better than to do this <MrZentor> or somehting <Blazinghand> " I expect more out of WBG. " <Blazinghand> I have that <Blazinghand> I also have "Oh yeah and he clearly didn't read my post about ShiaoPi and Keirathi, he just wanted to slap it down and lay on the insults. This isn't how you play mafia, this isn't how you hunt scum." <Blazinghand> in any case it's not super WBG meta specific <Blazinghand> it's just pretty clear he's pushing a scum agenda <MrZentor> Yeah <MrZentor> I kind of want to vote for him <Blazinghand> if you want to vote him wait <Blazinghand> don't do it just yet <MrZentor> But that might really suspicious.. <Blazinghand> well <Blazinghand> it's fine if you're the next vote <Blazinghand> actually, you should write up some addons to my case <Blazinghand> and post them and vote <Blazinghand> it's fine if we vote together <Blazinghand> it'll make our mason claim stronger <MrZentor> I might write "IM SPONTANEOUS ##Vote:WBG" <Blazinghand> if we're working together in the thread <Blazinghand> no don't make your vote seem weak <Blazinghand> that's what scum does when they work together <MrZentor> lol <MrZentor> that's what's fun though <MrZentor> XD <MrZentor> It's going to appear pretty weak anyways.. <Blazinghand> you should post the stuff you said above about like "WBG should know better" <MrZentor> I'll vote in half an hour <Blazinghand> and say "I agree with blazinghand" <Blazinghand> and then be like "in fact, WBG has seemed 'off' to me all game! and now I understand why." <Blazinghand> don't be afraid to vote too close to me time-wise <Blazinghand> and the reason I say this is that this WBG wagon will be hard <Blazinghand> people don't like lynching vets <MrZentor> Everybody's going to hate me for being fickle <MrZentor> There <Blazinghand> :D <Blazinghand> someone else posted <Blazinghand> I think we've expressed what everyone else was already thinking <Blazinghand> but was afraid to say <MrZentor> Being a mason is awesome <Blazinghand> yeah it's been really great to have you to bounce reads off of <Blazinghand> and knowing that like we're both unlynchable <Blazinghand> since if it comes down to it we can claim <MrZentor> I love how you made a case against me <MrZentor> That's absolutely hilarious XD * MrZentor has quit (Quit: Page closed) * Disconnected (An established connection was aborted by the software in your host machine). <MrZentor> Why aren't you voting for WBG <MrZentor> Nvm.. <MrZentor> WHAT <MrZentor> THEY CANT BE MASONS <MrZentor> THEY ARE SO SCUM <MrZentor> RIGHT <Blazinghand> yes * Disconnected (An established connection was aborted by the software in your host machine). * Blazinghand sets mode +i Blazinghand <Blazinghand> well I think we just won. <MrZentor> Yeah <MrZentor> Well <MrZentor> I hope so <Blazinghand> yup <MrZentor> I hope the game doesn't live up to its name <MrZentor> Because I'd hate for you to be scum <MrZentor> or something stupid like that <MrZentor> But after Keir's last post <MrZentor> I'm more certain they're scum <Blazinghand> i highly doubt this game is bastard modded <Blazinghand> and I doubt even more than there are 6 blues <MrZentor> argh <MrZentor> GIMME THE FLIP <Blazinghand> lol <MrZentor> There are always at least 3 posts after the <MrZentor> please refrain from posting <MrZentor> post <Blazinghand> lol <MrZentor> Ugh <MrZentor> 6 posts <MrZentor> and no night posts <Blazinghand> i keep on refreshing <Blazinghand> lol <MrZentor> ARGH\ <MrZentor> MROE POPCORN <MrZentor> okay <MrZentor> 4 masons <MrZentor> wtf <Blazinghand> welp <Blazinghand> at least we won't waste a mislynch on Kei <MrZentor> we suck * Disconnected (An established connection was aborted by the software in your host machine). * MrZentor has quit (Quit: Page closed) * Disconnected (Connection reset by peer). | ||
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1) He didn't act on his N1 check in any way. I don't think with an N1 scum check on Sandro anyone would really be so passive. Like, shit man, why not push Sandro? Why pussyfoot around him? You can be like "oh I want more info" but nothing austinmcc does towards Sandro actually is like "yes info plz" or pressure or really anything you do to someone you have a strong scumread on. 2) His N2 check is sub-optimal. The #1 shots for last night for scum were DYH and Kei, who are the most confirmed. players. In theory, even though MrZ has been playing for the town all game, MrZ/BH is at least possible. The DYH 30 seconds claim and shot confirms him, and Kei has a flipped partner and is literally confirmed. I wasn't a realistic shot. 3) He didn't result-crumb. Without a result crumb at the start of D2 he's committed to claiming at the end of N2, which isn't how you do things as an investigative role. His actions don't really make sense 4) His red check is on a near-universal townread and he himself is scummy. Austinmcc is a great 1-for-1 sacrifice for the scumteam, especially eliminating someone who's a universal townread (but not confirmed). Right now we're at LYLO-1. If we lynch Sandro, then Austin, there are 2 scum left and we're at LYLO. Good situation for scum all things considered. I see no reason to believe this claim. ##vote: austinmcc | ||
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+ Show Spoiler + <MrZentor> I'm not as sure about Keirathi as I was <Blazinghand> I see <Blazinghand> let's talk about WBG <MrZentor> What do you think of gim? <MrZentor> c: <MrZentor> him <Blazinghand> I don't like him, but all I have is a general feel that he's scummy <Blazinghand> I feel like a town WBG is more useful than this WBG <MrZentor> Yeah I've never been able to read WBG <MrZentor> I'm hoping he gets shot during the next night phase <Blazinghand> looking at his filter he seems confrontational and aggressive but not as helpful, not as willing to draw out other players into conversations <Blazinghand> I'm not sure WBG is actually contributing to the town atmosphere. <Blazinghand> yo man <Blazinghand> you there? <Blazinghand> I'm voting WBG <Blazinghand> dude <MrZentor> Hmm <Blazinghand> check my case <Blazinghand> let me know what you think <Blazinghand> i just posted a vote as well <MrZentor> Hmm <MrZentor> It was good in that you showed he wasn't promoting a good town environment <Blazinghand> I see no reason for WBG to do this <Blazinghand> other than that he's scum <MrZentor> You should have said something like <Blazinghand> I can add it in now <MrZentor> WBG should know better than to do this <MrZentor> or somehting <Blazinghand> " I expect more out of WBG. " <Blazinghand> I have that <Blazinghand> I also have "Oh yeah and he clearly didn't read my post about ShiaoPi and Keirathi, he just wanted to slap it down and lay on the insults. This isn't how you play mafia, this isn't how you hunt scum." <Blazinghand> in any case it's not super WBG meta specific <Blazinghand> it's just pretty clear he's pushing a scum agenda <MrZentor> Yeah <MrZentor> I kind of want to vote for him <Blazinghand> if you want to vote him wait <Blazinghand> don't do it just yet <MrZentor> But that might really suspicious.. <Blazinghand> well <Blazinghand> it's fine if you're the next vote <Blazinghand> actually, you should write up some addons to my case <Blazinghand> and post them and vote <Blazinghand> it's fine if we vote together <Blazinghand> it'll make our mason claim stronger <MrZentor> I might write "IM SPONTANEOUS ##Vote:WBG" <Blazinghand> if we're working together in the thread <Blazinghand> no don't make your vote seem weak <Blazinghand> that's what scum does when they work together <MrZentor> lol <MrZentor> that's what's fun though <MrZentor> XD <MrZentor> It's going to appear pretty weak anyways.. <Blazinghand> you should post the stuff you said above about like "WBG should know better" <MrZentor> I'll vote in half an hour <Blazinghand> and say "I agree with blazinghand" <Blazinghand> and then be like "in fact, WBG has seemed 'off' to me all game! and now I understand why." <Blazinghand> don't be afraid to vote too close to me time-wise <Blazinghand> and the reason I say this is that this WBG wagon will be hard <Blazinghand> people don't like lynching vets <MrZentor> Everybody's going to hate me for being fickle <MrZentor> There <Blazinghand> :D <Blazinghand> someone else posted <Blazinghand> I think we've expressed what everyone else was already thinking <Blazinghand> but was afraid to say <MrZentor> Being a mason is awesome <Blazinghand> yeah it's been really great to have you to bounce reads off of <Blazinghand> and knowing that like we're both unlynchable <Blazinghand> since if it comes down to it we can claim <MrZentor> I love how you made a case against me <MrZentor> That's absolutely hilarious XD * MrZentor has quit (Quit: Page closed) * Disconnected (An established connection was aborted by the software in your host machine). <MrZentor> Why aren't you voting for WBG <MrZentor> Nvm.. <MrZentor> WHAT <MrZentor> THEY CANT BE MASONS <MrZentor> THEY ARE SO SCUM <MrZentor> RIGHT <Blazinghand> yes * Disconnected (An established connection was aborted by the software in your host machine). * Blazinghand sets mode +i Blazinghand <Blazinghand> well I think we just won. <MrZentor> Yeah <MrZentor> Well <MrZentor> I hope so <Blazinghand> yup <MrZentor> I hope the game doesn't live up to its name <MrZentor> Because I'd hate for you to be scum <MrZentor> or something stupid like that <MrZentor> But after Keir's last post <MrZentor> I'm more certain they're scum <Blazinghand> i highly doubt this game is bastard modded <Blazinghand> and I doubt even more than there are 6 blues <MrZentor> argh <MrZentor> GIMME THE FLIP <Blazinghand> lol <MrZentor> There are always at least 3 posts after the <MrZentor> please refrain from posting <MrZentor> post <Blazinghand> lol <MrZentor> Ugh <MrZentor> 6 posts <MrZentor> and no night posts <Blazinghand> i keep on refreshing <Blazinghand> lol <MrZentor> ARGH\ <MrZentor> MROE POPCORN <MrZentor> okay <MrZentor> 4 masons <MrZentor> wtf <Blazinghand> welp <Blazinghand> at least we won't waste a mislynch on Kei <MrZentor> we suck * Disconnected (An established connection was aborted by the software in your host machine). * MrZentor has quit (Quit: Page closed) * Disconnected (Connection reset by peer). * Disconnected (An established connection was aborted by the software in your host machine). * Disconnected (An established connection was aborted by the software in your host machine). <Blazinghand> mrZ my brother <Blazinghand> tell me <Blazinghand> what are your thoughts on the austin claim * Disconnected (Connection reset by peer). * Disconnected (An established connection was aborted by the software in your host machine). <Blazinghand> alright <Blazinghand> so <Blazinghand> what are your thoughts on the austin claim <MrZentor> I thought sandroba was shady before <MrZentor> But I didn't want to speak up <MrZentor> because so many people thought he was town <MrZentor> idk <Blazinghand> ah <MrZentor> I don't think a mafia would claim <Blazinghand> so you think the claim is legit <MrZentor> after so many blue claims <MrZentor> you know? <Blazinghand> well, right now there are 3 scum alive <Blazinghand> and we're at lylo-1 <Blazinghand> and austin is considered scum by most, and sandro is considered town by most <Blazinghand> if austin is scum this isnt' a bad move <Blazinghand> because even trading 1-1 with sandro <Blazinghand> it puts us at 2-scum lylo <Blazinghand> but yeah if you think sandro is scum and austin is town <Blazinghand> then voting sandro makes sense <MrZentor> idk <Blazinghand> tell me abotu your sandro scumread <MrZentor> But sand defended bugs <MrZentor> But he didn't really try to stop him from getting lynched <MrZentor> Which is weird considering <MrZentor> he thought Bugs was town <Blazinghand> ah so basically he wanted to get credit for defending bugs <Blazinghand> but still let him get lynched <MrZentor> yeah <MrZentor> LISTEN PEOPLE! I've reread WBG's filter a couple times by now. Consider please that yesterday lynch was between 2 townies and scum shot marvelosity. WBG's behavior makes no sense as mafia. Even if you can twist it somehow like you guys have been trying to do, the tone and emotional content of his posts are very genuine. I've played with mafia bugs before, and while he is hard to read, he is either non confrontational or troll <MrZentor> but idk <Blazinghand> so this to you seems like a defense that is setting upt o look good after a bugs flip <Blazinghand> but not actually save him <MrZentor> yeah <Blazinghand> who was he pushign at the time? <MrZentor> Shiaopi <Blazinghand> he didn't stop there though <Blazinghand> he also made this post: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=17129729 <Blazinghand> and followed it up http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=17129793 <MrZentor> He wasn't around at all during the 8 hours before the lynch <MrZentor> idk <Blazinghand> I guess the thing is, it seems he defended WBG pretty hard <Blazinghand> and like, yeah for 8 hours he was gone but people have work and sleep and stuff <Blazinghand> especially since the lynch is at 5 pm Brazil time, where he lives <Blazinghand> he coudl well have been at work for the 8 hours leading up to the lynch <Blazinghand> I will say though that his number of posts has been low <Blazinghand> but in his posts he's taking stances, pushing his reads, and defending his townreads <Blazinghand> and it's not just dropping one or two sentences saying WBG is town-- he argues quite a bit <Blazinghand> in any case, here's my scumread on austin: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=17142193 <Blazinghand> it's based a bit on how he interacts with VE, but also on his weird case structure D1 <Blazinghand> let me know what you think <Blazinghand> whatever happens either I should switch over to voting sandro or you should come and vote austin, because if we split our votes we're very ineffective <MrZentor> Yeah <MrZentor> Has austin posted the his role pm? <Blazinghand> no <MrZentor> why <Blazinghand> he doesn't have a rolecrumb, or check crumbs, either <MrZentor> not <Blazinghand> dunno, but it's not super relevant <Blazinghand> scum would have fake pm <Blazinghand> the important thing is this <Blazinghand> he didn't crumb his check result from N1 right <MrZentor> Yeah, it's weird that he doesn't have one <Blazinghand> but if you don't crumb your N1 result at the start of D1 <Blazinghand> you HAVE to claim at the end of N2 <Blazinghand> in case you're shot <Blazinghand> right <Blazinghand> because if you die, there's no way peopel can find out your results <Blazinghand> and he had a red check on sandro <Blazinghand> and didn't act on it <Blazinghand> not even a little <MrZentor> He didn't post his role pm? <Blazinghand> nope <MrZentor> But <MrZentor> He should post it <MrZentor> as town or scum <MrZentor> that's weird <Blazinghand> people asked him a lot but he didn't <Blazinghand> I mean, the simple thing is that <Blazinghand> scum didn't get a fake claim PM for watcher <Blazinghand> which is kind of a specific role <MrZentor> I'll vote for him as long as he doesn't post his role pm <Blazinghand> ok but wait <Blazinghand> the crumb thing <Blazinghand> that doesn't raise your suspcions at all? <Blazinghand> no role crumb, no chekc crumbs <Blazinghand> and he had a red check D2 <MrZentor> It's weir <MrZentor> d <MrZentor> yeah <Blazinghand> and didn't act on it <Blazinghand> like, this is EXACTLY what a textbook scum claim looks like <MrZentor> He's probably scum... <Blazinghand> except <Blazinghand> well, the one thing is that he claimes to have a red check <Blazinghand> typically scum claim to have green checks on confirmed players <Blazinghand> but I think he's tring to trade 1-for-1 <Blazinghand> to put us at LYLO <Blazinghand> with 2 scum left alive <Blazinghand> since he was probably gonna get lynched today anyways <MrZentor> Yeah <Blazinghand> like, i'm not super sure on this <Blazinghand> Sandro is not the most townie of players <Blazinghand> and this isn't GREAT scum play, it's kinda desperate <Blazinghand> I am not without doubts <Blazinghand> but at the same time I think austin is more likely to flip scum than sandro <MrZentor> but Dandel replaced out <Blazinghand> and like, worst case scenario <MrZentor> Which means he is town <MrZentor> XD <Blazinghand> man that's bad logic lol <Blazinghand> but yeah <MrZentor> lol <Blazinghand> like, worst case scenario <MrZentor> so true though <MrZentor> so true <Blazinghand> last game <Blazinghand> djoref replaced in <Blazinghand> he was scum <Blazinghand> so like worst case scenario <Blazinghand> austin is town <Blazinghand> and we have to lynchs andro <Blazinghand> that's fine <Blazinghand> it's not great <Blazinghand> but... it'll do <MrZentor> I'm saying that the ratio of town players that are replaced to scum that are replace <MrZentor> is higher than the town to scum ratio <MrZentor> which makes it more likely that they're town <Blazinghand> I actually dissagree with that <Blazinghand> as a host I replace 100% of people before D3 <Blazinghand> scum or town <MrZentor> But people get less interested as town more easily <Blazinghand> that sounds logicaly but usually it's not lack of itnerest that causes it, but some other external factor <Blazinghand> I guess I've been in a LOT of games where the replaced player is scum <MrZentor> I've been a lot where the replaced people are town <Blazinghand> but like, the thing is a replaced player is like 75% of the time a townie <Blazinghand> because 75% OF PLAYERS are townies <Blazinghand> chances are, any given player is a townie <MrZentor> Na the ratio for replaced is higher <MrZentor> it's like 90% <MrZentor> at least <Blazinghand> it really isn't. <MrZentor> I'll vote for austin <Blazinghand> kk <Blazinghand> man I REALLY hope he flips scum rofl <MrZentor> lol <MrZentor> he better <MrZentor> or I'll blame yoi <MrZentor> you <MrZentor> it's a win win for me <MrZentor> c <Blazinghand> ;_; and it will have been my fault to <Blazinghand> LOL | ||
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+ Show Spoiler + * Disconnected (An established connection was aborted by the software in your host machine). * MrZentor has quit (Quit: Page closed) * Disconnected (Connection reset by peer). * Disconnected (An established connection was aborted by the software in your host machine). * Disconnected (An established connection was aborted by the software in your host machine). <Blazinghand> mrZ my brother <Blazinghand> tell me <Blazinghand> what are your thoughts on the austin claim * Disconnected (Connection reset by peer). * Disconnected (An established connection was aborted by the software in your host machine). <Blazinghand> alright <Blazinghand> so <Blazinghand> what are your thoughts on the austin claim <MrZentor> I thought sandroba was shady before <MrZentor> But I didn't want to speak up <MrZentor> because so many people thought he was town <MrZentor> idk <Blazinghand> ah <MrZentor> I don't think a mafia would claim <Blazinghand> so you think the claim is legit <MrZentor> after so many blue claims <MrZentor> you know? <Blazinghand> well, right now there are 3 scum alive <Blazinghand> and we're at lylo-1 <Blazinghand> and austin is considered scum by most, and sandro is considered town by most <Blazinghand> if austin is scum this isnt' a bad move <Blazinghand> because even trading 1-1 with sandro <Blazinghand> it puts us at 2-scum lylo <Blazinghand> but yeah if you think sandro is scum and austin is town <Blazinghand> then voting sandro makes sense <MrZentor> idk <Blazinghand> tell me abotu your sandro scumread <MrZentor> But sand defended bugs <MrZentor> But he didn't really try to stop him from getting lynched <MrZentor> Which is weird considering <MrZentor> he thought Bugs was town <Blazinghand> ah so basically he wanted to get credit for defending bugs <Blazinghand> but still let him get lynched <MrZentor> yeah <MrZentor> LISTEN PEOPLE! I've reread WBG's filter a couple times by now. Consider please that yesterday lynch was between 2 townies and scum shot marvelosity. WBG's behavior makes no sense as mafia. Even if you can twist it somehow like you guys have been trying to do, the tone and emotional content of his posts are very genuine. I've played with mafia bugs before, and while he is hard to read, he is either non confrontational or troll <MrZentor> but idk <Blazinghand> so this to you seems like a defense that is setting upt o look good after a bugs flip <Blazinghand> but not actually save him <MrZentor> yeah <Blazinghand> who was he pushign at the time? <MrZentor> Shiaopi <Blazinghand> he didn't stop there though <Blazinghand> he also made this post: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=17129729 <Blazinghand> and followed it up http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=17129793 <MrZentor> He wasn't around at all during the 8 hours before the lynch <MrZentor> idk <Blazinghand> I guess the thing is, it seems he defended WBG pretty hard <Blazinghand> and like, yeah for 8 hours he was gone but people have work and sleep and stuff <Blazinghand> especially since the lynch is at 5 pm Brazil time, where he lives <Blazinghand> he coudl well have been at work for the 8 hours leading up to the lynch <Blazinghand> I will say though that his number of posts has been low <Blazinghand> but in his posts he's taking stances, pushing his reads, and defending his townreads <Blazinghand> and it's not just dropping one or two sentences saying WBG is town-- he argues quite a bit <Blazinghand> in any case, here's my scumread on austin: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=17142193 <Blazinghand> it's based a bit on how he interacts with VE, but also on his weird case structure D1 <Blazinghand> let me know what you think <Blazinghand> whatever happens either I should switch over to voting sandro or you should come and vote austin, because if we split our votes we're very ineffective <MrZentor> Yeah <MrZentor> Has austin posted the his role pm? <Blazinghand> no <MrZentor> why <Blazinghand> he doesn't have a rolecrumb, or check crumbs, either <MrZentor> not <Blazinghand> dunno, but it's not super relevant <Blazinghand> scum would have fake pm <Blazinghand> the important thing is this <Blazinghand> he didn't crumb his check result from N1 right <MrZentor> Yeah, it's weird that he doesn't have one <Blazinghand> but if you don't crumb your N1 result at the start of D1 <Blazinghand> you HAVE to claim at the end of N2 <Blazinghand> in case you're shot <Blazinghand> right <Blazinghand> because if you die, there's no way peopel can find out your results <Blazinghand> and he had a red check on sandro <Blazinghand> and didn't act on it <Blazinghand> not even a little <MrZentor> He didn't post his role pm? <Blazinghand> nope <MrZentor> But <MrZentor> He should post it <MrZentor> as town or scum <MrZentor> that's weird <Blazinghand> people asked him a lot but he didn't <Blazinghand> I mean, the simple thing is that <Blazinghand> scum didn't get a fake claim PM for watcher <Blazinghand> which is kind of a specific role <MrZentor> I'll vote for him as long as he doesn't post his role pm <Blazinghand> ok but wait <Blazinghand> the crumb thing <Blazinghand> that doesn't raise your suspcions at all? <Blazinghand> no role crumb, no chekc crumbs <Blazinghand> and he had a red check D2 <MrZentor> It's weir <MrZentor> d <MrZentor> yeah <Blazinghand> and didn't act on it <Blazinghand> like, this is EXACTLY what a textbook scum claim looks like <MrZentor> He's probably scum... <Blazinghand> except <Blazinghand> well, the one thing is that he claimes to have a red check <Blazinghand> typically scum claim to have green checks on confirmed players <Blazinghand> but I think he's tring to trade 1-for-1 <Blazinghand> to put us at LYLO <Blazinghand> with 2 scum left alive <Blazinghand> since he was probably gonna get lynched today anyways <MrZentor> Yeah <Blazinghand> like, i'm not super sure on this <Blazinghand> Sandro is not the most townie of players <Blazinghand> and this isn't GREAT scum play, it's kinda desperate <Blazinghand> I am not without doubts <Blazinghand> but at the same time I think austin is more likely to flip scum than sandro <MrZentor> but Dandel replaced out <Blazinghand> and like, worst case scenario <MrZentor> Which means he is town <MrZentor> XD <Blazinghand> man that's bad logic lol <Blazinghand> but yeah <MrZentor> lol <Blazinghand> like, worst case scenario <MrZentor> so true though <MrZentor> so true <Blazinghand> last game <Blazinghand> djoref replaced in <Blazinghand> he was scum <Blazinghand> so like worst case scenario <Blazinghand> austin is town <Blazinghand> and we have to lynchs andro <Blazinghand> that's fine <Blazinghand> it's not great <Blazinghand> but... it'll do <MrZentor> I'm saying that the ratio of town players that are replaced to scum that are replace <MrZentor> is higher than the town to scum ratio <MrZentor> which makes it more likely that they're town <Blazinghand> I actually dissagree with that <Blazinghand> as a host I replace 100% of people before D3 <Blazinghand> scum or town <MrZentor> But people get less interested as town more easily <Blazinghand> that sounds logicaly but usually it's not lack of itnerest that causes it, but some other external factor <Blazinghand> I guess I've been in a LOT of games where the replaced player is scum <MrZentor> I've been a lot where the replaced people are town <Blazinghand> but like, the thing is a replaced player is like 75% of the time a townie <Blazinghand> because 75% OF PLAYERS are townies <Blazinghand> chances are, any given player is a townie <MrZentor> Na the ratio for replaced is higher <MrZentor> it's like 90% <MrZentor> at least <Blazinghand> it really isn't. <MrZentor> I'll vote for austin <Blazinghand> kk <Blazinghand> man I REALLY hope he flips scum rofl <MrZentor> lol <MrZentor> he better <MrZentor> or I'll blame yoi <MrZentor> you <MrZentor> it's a win win for me <MrZentor> c <Blazinghand> ;_; and it will have been my fault to <Blazinghand> LOL | ||
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Convince me, like any townie who believes in his position should. | ||
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On December 07 2012 01:24 ShiaoPi wrote: I am buying austins claim. which leaves me with ##vote: sandroba Okay lets condense my thoughts a bit. BH is town to me, that makes Zentor also town as proxy, as I believe the PM BH posted to be correct (see wording and confirming them as town to each other). Austin's claim timing and stuff may be off but what the hell, why do you lynch the claimamt with no counterclaims? Seriously just compare the filters from austin and sandroba and tell me with a straight face that austin is scum. He is way too active and contributing in comparision to sandroba who just seems to be cruising by and dropping a remark now and then when it befits him. In this direct scenario of austin vs. sandroba the choice should be easy and clear. lynch sandroba...... | ||
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The fact that you are alone in defending austin is, in and of itself, meaningless. A lynch being "too easy" isn't good reasoning at all. | ||
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I was in your situation once, in SOAF when VE was pushing C_C (link). I didn't like C_C that much but he was not the optimal lynch, and I ALONE stood against the mislynch. But I didn't make tiny shit posts and not be proactive in the thread. I fought for my beliefs. I tried to save him. I did everything I could up until he flipped, and even though nobody agreed with me I never gave up. This is what you are morally obligated to do to save someone you think is town and to lynch someone you think is scum. And really, the fact that you're not trying to save austin is bad. Do you not care about this game? I want to like you, ShiaoPi. I do. Be a man and try to push your reads, or get the hell onto the austinmcc wagon. What you're doing now is bad. I don't even think you're gonna convince me, but damn dude. At least TRY. MrZentor, for whatever flaws he may have, had enough dignity to do that. I don't even really know what the point of this is other than to chew you out. Stop it. Stooooooooop stoppppppppppp | ||
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On December 07 2012 11:56 debears wrote: Wait. What if paranoia of this game is too many blues? Holy shit. Jingles whole plan has been made. He's want town to lose from mislynching so many blues!!!!!!! FOUND IT | ||
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Damn, at least Keirathi had the balls to stand up for what he believed in when he was wrong. That (besides his flipped mason partner) is why he's town. But ShiaoPi, we are not as dumb as you think we are. We are not bookshelfmongers. We do not grout tiles. We fling no carp. I thought "first austinmcc, then shiaopi" for your lies and your treachery and your duplicity. BUT THIS IS NOT ENOUGH Where is the defense of the guy who you think is "town"? Where is the town play that anyone in your position would make as town? nothin about your play is townlike, nothing at all. You haven't been putting effort in for a long time now. You've barely engaged the thread since the middle of N1 and you're clearly not interested in hunting scum. Fuck austin and fuck sandro. You're the scum. And you're going to die like the scum you are. ##unvote austinmcc ##vote shiaopi I GROUT NO TILES | ||
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Look at this mans' filter for the past like 96 hours and tell me he cares about htis game. TELL ME HE CARES ID ARE YOU | ||
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On December 07 2012 20:23 Blazinghand wrote: I'm gonna be real here I didn't exactly have a townread on ShiaoPi but now it's at the point where like if we weren't already lynching austin I'd be down to lynch ShiaoPi. what kind of assinine play is this? ShiaoPi must mistake us for carp-flinging tilegrouting bookshelfmongers if he thinks anyone finds his play today even remotely acceptable. Damn, at least Keirathi had the balls to stand up for what he believed in when he was wrong. That (besides his flipped mason partner) is why he's town. But ShiaoPi, we are not as dumb as you think we are. We are not bookshelfmongers. We do not grout tiles. We fling no carp. I thought "first austinmcc, then shiaopi" for your lies and your treachery and your duplicity. BUT THIS IS NOT ENOUGH Where is the defense of the guy who you think is "town"? Where is the town play that anyone in your position would make as town? nothin about your play is townlike, nothing at all. You haven't been putting effort in for a long time now. You've barely engaged the thread since the middle of N1 and you're clearly not interested in hunting scum. Fuck austin and fuck sandro. You're the scum. And you're going to die like the scum you are. ##unvote austinmcc ##vote shiaopi I GROUT NO TILES THIS BELONGS ON THE NEW PAGE TOO | ||
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COME ATME | ||
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but the point is shiaopi scummier he dies | ||
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but damn man look at shiaopi. just look at that sucker. tell me that dude is town! tell me! Tell me in a way that i'd believe even for a second! | ||
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##unvote shiaopi ##vote austinmcc YOU LIVE ONE MORE DAY! BUT ONLY ONE | ||
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shiaopi if you are town I will literally figuratively eat my hat | ||
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reason able sa ndro case will thinmk shiaopi is #1 in my book | ||
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##vote shiaopi | ||
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On December 08 2012 07:42 Keirathi wrote: If you are town, remind me to never play in a game with you again. Thanks. fuck da police | ||
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wr all know it fuck da polcice in votibg cor scum | ||
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you can tell i am pro at fibsung him out when hr is scum he is scum | ||
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he's so scum. | ||
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On December 08 2012 09:07 Xatalos wrote: Yeah, it's all your fault that we almost mislynched! Lesson learned: don't listen to BlazingHand I might be wrong but eventually i'm always right. given how wrong i've been this game it's basically 100% chance i'm right now: so the lesson is listen to blazinghand | ||
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On December 09 2012 03:30 Keirathi wrote: BH: I dunno wtf you've been doing the last 2 games, but I really don't want to play with you anymore. Making a case against your own mason partner? Inexcusably bad. So bad that I even went all conspiracy theory on you because it was hard to believe you could be that dumb. Dude I forgot for like 30 minutes who I mason partner was. It happens, okay? You can call me inexcusably bad but 1) I saved the vigilante 2) I severely out-argued your tunnelling ass so town lynched WBG instead of me or MrZ and 3) I caught the hell out of Shiaopi (though he was obvious). I didn't play great this game but shit man you had so much tunnel vision and you and your mason partner played in such a way that WBG got lynched. Last game yeah I got off to a bad start but shit man my gf's grandmother died and I was busy. Once she was out of the country I won the hell out of that game. So yeah honestly I dunno why you're so mad about this. Mistakes get made but I played to win, and I didn't get overcome by tunnel vision. If you and WBG had actually played like townies maybe we might have avoided a mislynch. | ||
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But like seriously you really treated everyone this game like crap (or at least several people this way) and I didn't like that. If it's a good strat though it's a good strat and I can't really hate on it. Just saying it wasn't pleasant. EDIT: also I only forgot for like a moment, then I immediately retracted the case! I didn't even push him or anything. He was in no danger of getting lynched. | ||
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I admitted this mistake and will make sure to in my notes write in all caps (as I did after making that mistake) who my mason partner is. EDIT: actually, it was up for a good 4 minutes before I realized I had made a mistake. Would you really modkill me in those 4 minutes? Or would you do it after I retracted it and made up a good (and very convincing!) argument as to why my own case was bad, taking all the pressure off of MrZ? Or would you do it after MrZ and I defended each other N1 and D2 and never got lynched? | ||
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EDIT: On December 09 2012 08:00 Blazinghand wrote: It's true, I made a mistake and forgot who my Mason partner was. I'll endeavor to not make that same error in the future. Thank you for the constructive criticism. On December 10 2012 12:52 Promethelax wrote: if you don't admit to your mistakes you won't be able to improve. timestamps for relevance | ||
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On December 10 2012 13:04 Promethelax wrote: Your play was bad. Solidly. Throughout this whole game. The attack on your mason partner is the most obvious. But you also talked about how you had been the one to make the case on Shiao, you are taking credit for good plays which weren't yours. You fumbled this game throughout and between this and Mario I think you need to rethink how you play blue. Fair enough, I made mistakes. And in the post game perhaps I was too strident in the defense of my play, when in fact most of the town had a scumread on shiao before I did. Anything else helpful specifically besides "your play was bad?" | ||
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E: but yeah basically what marv said. there's plenty of people to write questionable meta cases against D1, it's unnecessarily confusing to do it against your mason partner, so barring weird circumstances as a mason you should try to avoid attacking your partner. | ||
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On December 11 2012 01:12 Hopeless1der wrote: By that logic, scum shouldn't be allowed to vote for a teammate. Your Win-Con is to win the game, it doesn't matter what method you use to do so as long as they fall within the rules of the game. Obviously don't cheat, but if you willingly give away confirmed town resources in an effort to catch scum, you're still playing to your win-con. You're just going about it in what is quits possibly the worst possible method. I remember in EMM WBG was chill with me claiming SK, as the SK, because I thought it would let me win the game (and town lynched me anyways! the bastards! At least they lost afterwards). In retrospect not a great move I guess BUT ALSO IN RETROSPECT it was worth a shot and might have worked. Yeah my scum play is pretty good | ||
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also I think that was still probably my best play at that point | ||
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On December 11 2012 04:31 wherebugsgo wrote: Claiming SK on d2 is not suicide? Man, I have no idea what passes through your head when you think of these things. It was D3 and given what had happened in the game and how the day had developed it was my only hope for not getting lynched. You think i had another option? | ||
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On December 11 2012 14:16 wherebugsgo wrote: yes, I think I explained it in postgame too. The thing is that this reflects upon your town play. By saying that it was your only option, you consciously admit that you would, as town, consider leaving alive an SK claim in that situation. Yeah I'd consider it. Wouldn't you? E: Also you did an awesome postgame analysis but mostly talked about my D1 play and my D2 play (and how weird it is that town lynched Hyaach over me when I was scummier) | ||
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