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^^^
also note that, although marv's case with the post from others came after the vote by WBG, WBG kept going after marv for the dp lynch after the lynch
On December 02 2012 08:45 wherebugsgo wrote:Show nested quote +On December 02 2012 08:42 marvellosity wrote:On December 02 2012 08:41 wherebugsgo wrote:On December 02 2012 08:39 marvellosity wrote:On December 02 2012 08:37 wherebugsgo wrote:On December 02 2012 08:34 marvellosity wrote:On December 02 2012 08:28 wherebugsgo wrote:On December 02 2012 08:27 marvellosity wrote:On December 02 2012 08:27 wherebugsgo wrote:
w/e I'm gonna go eat.
Scoreboard:
Me 1
Retard Train (aka everyone else) 0 nuh uh, you're on the retard train coz you were voting for the cop. sorry buddy. the guy who claimed cop d1 dares call someone else stupid? well I guess it was a pretty smart move for you considering that you are scum and everyone else is too stupid to realize how much of a scummy move that was. yes, because it's even stupider that you were still voting for me, twinkletoes. stop being a baddie and assess the game properly. you think claiming cop day 1 as town is a good move? If so, then stop fucking calling me a baddie. yes, i think claiming cop is a good idea when the votes were rushing on to me, and everyone was refusing to give any reasons. The votes should not be on me and they should be on finding scum. How am I supposed to argue against everyone's non-existent cases? "marv is playing weird" "marv is likelier scum than x" "marv is something else that doesn't at all describe why i'm scum in any way" and yet you caused the bandwagon on DP for exactly the same reasons.What have we concluded here? Oh, right, that people in mafia games bandwagon for stupid reasons. Doesn't change the fact that you're scum, though! now who's misrepresenting the thread? stop it. Keep talking, you give me more ammo every time you do. You complain that no one had "adequate reason" to vote you, yet you simply throw around unsubstantiated shit like "you're misrepresenting the thread". The simple fact is, there exists documented evidence that I was right about DP and that you were full of hot air. If you are town you need to realize this. The fact that you refuse to realize it either means you're just a stubborn townie who's playing badly (certainly possible) or, my hypothesis, that you're pressured scum.
there wasn't documented evidence, because WBG didn't provide any
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I would most like to kill Zealos right now, but it looks like that's unnecessary. the long absence is a long absence, but even when he was here his posts were mostly one-liners and then slightly longer commentary on things that didn't matter and didn't present much in the way of reads.
I don't want to kill ShiaoPi today.
WBG, could you speak a little more about why you didn't believe marv's cop claim?
On December 02 2012 07:27 wherebugsgo wrote:Show nested quote +On December 02 2012 06:52 marvellosity wrote:On December 02 2012 06:52 Blazinghand wrote:
yeah a role PM would be nice marv
I do think Ace makes a reasonable case for why Marv's claim is bad and should be punished, but as a rule lynching blue claims D1 is bad. Sorry Ace. You are Jamie Hyneman. Your love of the scientific method makes it possible for you to find out how shit works. You've also got a cool collection of cameras and stuff, that you can totally use to track people. (Detective) LOL what kind of shit cop claims day 1? Of all people marv would know that this is a terrible idea as town. So, guess what? HE'S NOT TOWN!
On December 02 2012 07:40 wherebugsgo wrote:
why does it matter, prplhz thought he was dying just like you.
scum do whatever they want to live when they think they're gonna die After Can't Believe, you had a whole list of hypotheticals, presenting claims and asking people to think critically about whether they were real or fake.
Good Lord I love bringing up past games, but that is also something I'm having trouble with here. Why did you not believe marv's claim?
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After carefully reading through MrZentor's filter, I'm left with more questions than answers. The biggest thing is this:
On December 04 2012 09:07 MrZentor wrote:
I have narrowed the mafia down to five people.
I can't decide which of those I want to kill.
But ShiaoPi is on the list and WBG wants to kills him, so why not?
Here it looks like MrZentor has a town read on WBG - he's even willing to follow WBG's lead to lynch ShiaoPi.
On December 04 2012 11:39 MrZentor wrote:WBG is a vet; he knows what kind of posting is beneficial for town and what is detrimental. Making these terrible posts is a conscious decision. There is no reason for him, a vet, to post like that as town. So, for actively hurting the town environment while fully aware of his actions, I will ##Vote: WBG.Also, WBG, I challenge you. I challenge you to either refute each of BH's points in his case or to admit to purposefully being detrimental to town. I challenge you to not say something useless like Show nested quote +On December 04 2012 08:19 wherebugsgo wrote:
cool, I was right. You're biased and bad. Let's move on.
Two hours later, he's suddenly Mafia??? What the heck???
MrZentor seems to also have a very strong townread on BH. I pretty much agree with his arguments, although I wouldn't give them such heavy weight as MrZentor does (especially the weird case against MrZentor isn't that big of a towntell IMO).
I'm puzzled more than anything by MrZentor, but I want to hear an explanation for that voteswitch from ShiaoPi to WBG right now. I also want to hear some more reasoning for his actions so far in the game and what this mysterious "list of five suspects" is.
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Xatalos what do you have to say about the stuff posted by me, BH, and austin on WBG?
All I've seen you mention is ShiaoPi and WBG's "how many times VE mentioned ppl" post. You have failed to address any of the main content addressed at WBG, yet you are more than happy to jump on ShiaoPi and Zentor
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debears, am I correct when I say you got down Keir and WBG as scum team?
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Xata, don't get to caught up with Zentor's play. He always plays liek this, no matter if he is scum or town. Wierd, that is.
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EBWOP: You can look into Zentor's play later but there are more important matters atm.
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On December 05 2012 04:45 debears wrote:
Xatalos what do you have to say about the stuff posted by me, BH, and austin on WBG?
All I've seen you mention is ShiaoPi and WBG's "how many times VE mentioned ppl" post. You have failed to address any of the main content addressed at WBG, yet you are more than happy to jump on ShiaoPi and Zentor
I suppose MrZentor can wait, since it's close to deadline and he isn't even really related to the lynch at hand.
By the way, I just had a strange thought. What if the remaining scum were ShiaoPi and austinmcc? I've had austinmcc as a townread for so long, but he's been pretty unimpactful during Day 2 - and recently he's been soft defending ShiaoPi, and simultaneously boarding the opposing bandwagon (WBG). Them being a team would make lots of sense (at least if it wasn't for my original townread on austinmcc).
Now, back to WBG. I sometimes start doubting him when reading your (debears etc.) arguments against him, but I have the terrible feeling that I would regret heavily voting for him instead of ShiaoPi. Yeah, he hasn't been as helpful as he could/should have, but the same applies to marvellosity - and he was town of course. The points against WBG aren't really scumtells - they're nulltells that could mean either town or Mafia. They would also mostly apply to marvellosity. There are always two people in a flamefest, and they were both equally guilty for it IMO. Both were caught up in a senseless waste of time, resorting to petty insults and otherwise ignorant posts. I don't think this is condemning for either of them though. In fact, looking at where it has gotten WBG (half the players wanting to lynch him) I doubt he would have entered such a useless interaction with marvellosity in the first place as Mafia. It just makes no sense. Okay, there's the theory that scum WBG wanted to "neutralize" marvellosity's contributions before he could be shot. Is something bizarre like that really worth reducing your own credibility and raising yourself to the spotlight (and to the lynch candidates)? It's far too risky for far too little gain. Occam's razor again points to the simplest explanation: it was just two townies having a stupid argument where neither of them was going to benefit from it in any concrete way. There's always the chance that I'm wrong, but I'm pretty confident that I'm making the right choice right now.
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Day 2 Votecount
ShiaoPi (5) < --- Gonna get lynched
wherebugsgo, sandroba, Lazermonkey, Keirathi, Xatalos
wherebugsgo (5)
debears, Blazinghand, MrZentor, ShiaoPi, austinmcc
Lazermonkey (1)
DoYouHas
Not Voting (1)
Zealos
~2 hours until deadline.
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On December 05 2012 05:04 Lazermonkey wrote:
debears, am I correct when I say you got down Keir and WBG as scum team?
I'm not sure on Keir. His posting today gives me a townie vibe, despite Ace's d1. I'm more worried about WBG/Shiao
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On December 05 2012 05:33 Xatalos wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2012 04:45 debears wrote:
Xatalos what do you have to say about the stuff posted by me, BH, and austin on WBG?
All I've seen you mention is ShiaoPi and WBG's "how many times VE mentioned ppl" post. You have failed to address any of the main content addressed at WBG, yet you are more than happy to jump on ShiaoPi and Zentor I suppose MrZentor can wait, since it's close to deadline and he isn't even really related to the lynch at hand. By the way, I just had a strange thought. What if the remaining scum were ShiaoPi and austinmcc? I've had austinmcc as a townread for so long, but he's been pretty unimpactful during Day 2 - and recently he's been soft defending ShiaoPi, and simultaneously boarding the opposing bandwagon (WBG). Them being a team would make lots of sense (at least if it wasn't for my original townread on austinmcc). Now, back to WBG. I sometimes start doubting him when reading your (debears etc.) arguments against him, but I have the terrible feeling that I would regret heavily voting for him instead of ShiaoPi. Yeah, he hasn't been as helpful as he could/should have, but the same applies to marvellosity - and he was town of course. The points against WBG aren't really scumtells - they're nulltells that could mean either town or Mafia. They would also mostly apply to marvellosity. There are always two people in a flamefest, and they were both equally guilty for it IMO. Both were caught up in a senseless waste of time, resorting to petty insults and otherwise ignorant posts. I don't think this is condemning for either of them though. In fact, looking at where it has gotten WBG (half the players wanting to lynch him) I doubt he would have entered such a useless interaction with marvellosity in the first place as Mafia. It just makes no sense. Okay, there's the theory that scum WBG wanted to "neutralize" marvellosity's contributions before he could be shot. Is something bizarre like that really worth reducing your own credibility and raising yourself to the spotlight (and to the lynch candidates)? It's far too risky for far too little gain. Occam's razor again points to the simplest explanation: it was just two townies having a stupid argument where neither of them was going to benefit from it in any concrete way. There's always the chance that I'm wrong, but I'm pretty confident that I'm making the right choice right now.
But what about his flaming of the town despite him not even being at lynch because he was playing dota?
What kind of town motivations are there for that?
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On December 05 2012 06:02 debears wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2012 05:04 Lazermonkey wrote:
debears, am I correct when I say you got down Keir and WBG as scum team? I'm not sure on Keir. His posting today gives me a townie vibe, despite Ace's d1. I'm more worried about WBG/Shiao
For what it's worth, I think I found Ace's D1 townie. It's difficult to say for sure, because he replaced out without dumping his thoughts into thread, so it's tough to tell for sure. But at least some of his comments and responses led me to believe that he was coming at the game from a townie perspective.
Cite me examples, you say! Can't really except that I know I noticed him speaking mainly about players he'd played with before, and asked him about that, worried that he was just chiming in occasionally and not really looking at the game.
It would take no effort for him to lie when answering that, to say that he was reading everyone's posts and thinking about them, but I took his answer to be sincere, even though we didn't really get to SEE that with him replacing out.
/ramble off
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Jesus christ this is hard. I really don't know if I'd rather kill ShiaoPi or WBG tbh... The fact that WBG is absent with less than 2 hours untill lynch is strange.
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On December 05 2012 06:11 Lazermonkey wrote:
Jesus christ this is hard. I really don't know if I'd rather kill ShiaoPi or WBG tbh... The fact that WBG is absent with less than 2 hours untill lynch is strange.
Welcome to my world, the world of red bull
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Whichever direction the lynch goes today, I think we are going to kill town. I'm moving my vote to Shiaopi simply because I'm less willing to sacrifice bugs than him to make you realize that you are all off track.
Lazer is scum. BH, my reasons for voting Lazer are not lazy. I came to the same conclusion from looking into both the voting patterns and VE's filter. I was ready to rethink my assumptions when I was filtering WBG and VE. Indeed, I did exactly that for both Keirathi and WBG. BUT, my conviction on Lazer was only strengthened. BH classified my analysis of VE's posting on Lazer to be 'soft defending'. This makes me wonder if he even read it. The ONLY mention that could be construed that way was the first one where Lazer made a generalization about people's behavior and VE responded with "truth". It was a nothing interaction, not soft defending, and I classified it as such.
Hypothetical - If I was to come out with a PBPA on Lazer now, what would happen? You all would ignore me even more than you are now because you would assume I was tunneling Lazer, just like I tunneled Xata. I gave you the evidence that convinced me, and you are all fools to ignore it.
It is time to wake up and smell the coffee town, neither of our candidates today are scum. And in true BH style, I will eat my hat if I'm wrong.
##Unvote Lazermonkey
##Vote Shiaopi
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On December 04 2012 23:57 sandroba wrote:
Being detrimental to the town =/= wbg is scum. His emotional response to marv makes sense given the lack of knowledge of marv's alignment because it was the exact same response I had when reading through those pages.
+ Show Spoiler +On December 04 2012 11:39 MrZentor wrote:WBG is a vet; he knows what kind of posting is beneficial for town and what is detrimental. Making these terrible posts is a conscious decision. There is no reason for him, a vet, to post like that as town. So, for actively hurting the town environment while fully aware of his actions, I will ##Vote: WBG. Also, WBG, I challenge you. I challenge you to either refute each of BH's points in his case or to admit to purposefully being detrimental to town. I challenge you to not say something useless like Show nested quote +On December 04 2012 08:19 wherebugsgo wrote:
cool, I was right. You're biased and bad. Let's move on.
On December 05 2012 04:39 Xatalos wrote:After carefully reading through MrZentor's filter, I'm left with more questions than answers. The biggest thing is this: Show nested quote +On December 04 2012 09:07 MrZentor wrote:
I have narrowed the mafia down to five people.
I can't decide which of those I want to kill.
But ShiaoPi is on the list and WBG wants to kills him, so why not? Here it looks like MrZentor has a town read on WBG - he's even willing to follow WBG's lead to lynch ShiaoPi. Show nested quote +On December 04 2012 11:39 MrZentor wrote:WBG is a vet; he knows what kind of posting is beneficial for town and what is detrimental. Making these terrible posts is a conscious decision. There is no reason for him, a vet, to post like that as town. So, for actively hurting the town environment while fully aware of his actions, I will ##Vote: WBG.Also, WBG, I challenge you. I challenge you to either refute each of BH's points in his case or to admit to purposefully being detrimental to town. I challenge you to not say something useless like On December 04 2012 08:19 wherebugsgo wrote:
cool, I was right. You're biased and bad. Let's move on. Two hours later, he's suddenly Mafia??? What the heck??? MrZentor seems to also have a very strong townread on BH. I pretty much agree with his arguments, although I wouldn't give them such heavy weight as MrZentor does (especially the weird case against MrZentor isn't that big of a towntell IMO). I'm puzzled more than anything by MrZentor, but I want to hear an explanation for that voteswitch from ShiaoPi to WBG right now. I also want to hear some more reasoning for his actions so far in the game and what this mysterious "list of five suspects" is.
Yeah, I went back through WBG's and ShiaoPi's filters, and WBG's was far worse. What can I say? I'm fickle.
The "list of five suspects" is what it sounds like.
In other news, WBG failed my challenge. He's scum.
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On December 05 2012 06:13 DoYouHas wrote:
Whichever direction the lynch goes today, I think we are going to kill town. I'm moving my vote to Shiaopi simply because I'm less willing to sacrifice bugs than him to make you realize that you are all off track.
Lazer is scum. BH, my reasons for voting Lazer are not lazy. I came to the same conclusion from looking into both the voting patterns and VE's filter. I was ready to rethink my assumptions when I was filtering WBG and VE. Indeed, I did exactly that for both Keirathi and WBG. BUT, my conviction on Lazer was only strengthened. BH classified my analysis of VE's posting on Lazer to be 'soft defending'. This makes me wonder if he even read it. The ONLY mention that could be construed that way was the first one where Lazer made a generalization about people's behavior and VE responded with "truth". It was a nothing interaction, not soft defending, and I classified it as such.
Hypothetical - If I was to come out with a PBPA on Lazer now, what would happen? You all would ignore me even more than you are now because you would assume I was tunneling Lazer, just like I tunneled Xata. I gave you the evidence that convinced me, and you are all fools to ignore it.
It is time to wake up and smell the coffee town, neither of our candidates today are scum. And in true BH style, I will eat my hat if I'm wrong.
##Unvote Lazermonkey
##Vote Shiaopi
HYPOTHETICAL LAND.
You're scum this game. WBG is town. WBG and sandroba are both vets with solid scumhunting credentials. sandroba not a lynch option, because he looks townie.
Aren't you going to make the play to try and get WBG lynched? If that's true, in the same way we've looked at "someone voting for x probably scum," there is almost certainly scum on WBG if he's town. Saves you an early NK on someone you were going to have to get rid of, and you let town do most of the heavy lifting.
Do you agree with that thought process, that scum would be delighted to mislynch town WBG today? If so, who, out of the folks on WBG, do you think is scum?
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@austin:
You seem to be hung up on WBG fighting with marv. Did you go read Rockband?
I believe I know marv as well as probably almost anyone on TL. If he gets in a fight in thread with someone, and thinks they are scum, he would be yelling about it up and down. The fact that he didn't call WBG scum even once says that marv thought WBG was town, and that they were just bashing egos against each other.
Now, I certainly don't think marv's reads are infallible, but at the very least it gives me pause to voting WBG. Marv is quick to call someone scum who does something he thinks is scum motivated, even if he changes his mind later. Do you think, as an outside observer of the fight, you have better insight into WBG's motives than who he was fighting with?
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EPT
