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On November 22 2012 03:24 CaveJohnson wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2012 03:17 marvellosity wrote:On November 22 2012 03:16 CaveJohnson wrote:On November 22 2012 03:13 marvellosity wrote:On November 22 2012 03:10 Toadesstern wrote:On November 22 2012 03:04 Acrofales wrote:On November 22 2012 02:06 Toadesstern wrote:On November 22 2012 01:14 Acrofales wrote:On November 22 2012 00:36 Oatsmaster wrote:kush makes me want to shout at him in every single post... Ok for now, I think the party leader should be toadesstern because He started off his post with a scumread, which shows effort in reading the thread instead of mindlessly posting without actually analysing anything like almost every player so far. His posts look really sincere and his logic is spot on On November 21 2012 17:13 Toadesstern wrote:
Oh and I forgot: Yeah we need to find someone to send d1 and that's all nice and fine but I don't think it's a good way to keep the talk all focused on only that.
Faking townreads as mafias is incredibly easy. Faking mafiareads as mafia is something that takes effort. If we're only going to talk about who we're going to send d1 we're giving mafia an incredibly easy time skating by.
I know it feels counterintuitive as clearly the shortterm "goal" is to send a good guy d1 but I think we should try and balance those issues out. After all, the goal in the longrun is to figure people out and we won't be able to do that by playing nice all day long. His posts look really hard to fake for scum and because of his reputation as being imba, I am voting Toadesstern ##Vote: Toadsstern You clearly don't know toad at all. You don't even know toad's reputation. 1. Toad is notoriously hard to read. He posts giant walls of text that ramble on as either alignment and gets into hissyfits with whoever he feels like (most notoriously bugs and VE) as either alignment. 2. If he is imba, he is imba as scum, not so much as town. Personal opinion here, but I haven't seen toad make the difference as town. Unlike some other players in this game. Now on to the beef of your post: why exactly do you feel his posts are hard to fake as scum? What specific quality makes you lean town on him? So far I am seeing you park your vote in a similar manner to Keirathi, for a similar reason. Last time I had to gather people I was some sort of mason who get's to invite people each and every night to join his QT resulting in the QT growing in number every cycle and having an incredibly powerfull town-circle. I think I picked something like 5 townies straight without a problem at all, including people like WBG who are notoriously hard to read according to most people here. The only mistake I made was when I gambled in lategame as we had 2 Kenpachi-like people (real Kenpachi and someone like Kenpachi) who didn't play the game while not being able to get a read on Marv as well. I picked Marv because I figured that if neither of those 2 Kenpachis is mafia we've lost anyways because one of them will get lynched at some point and it already was lylo. So yeah I think I'm pretty decent when it comes to that as well. I agree I'm by no way the best scumhunter around and I'm mostly working by process of elimination but that's because I trust in my townreads so heavily and they're never wrong. So yeah I think I'm the right guy for the job. Not saying you're not. Just that I have reservations voting for you, and correcting the jubjubs as to your reputation. I've seen you play good as town. I've seen you play better as scum. I saw you are running and I like that. What makes you a better candidate than syllo or sandro? I don't think anyone in here can claim to be better than Syllo or sandro when it comes to reads if that's what you're asking. However unlike Syllo and Sandro I'm someone who's pretty talkactive and I will get people talking about reads. Syllo and Sandro both tend to be pretty lazy threadwise and I don't think that that's something we want for someone who's running for the d1 spot. I don't really see syllogism as lazy. Not his play so far anyway. On November 21 2012 15:28 syllogism wrote:
Oh Sandro is here and posting quite a bit, I may re-evaluate my nomination if I like what I see as I would definitely prefer being as lazy as possible On November 21 2012 22:55 sandroba wrote:On November 21 2012 22:51 marvellosity wrote:On November 21 2012 22:50 sandroba wrote:
I wouldn't mind syllo being leader either and if I win I will give him veto power over the people I choose. I'm fairly certain he is town at this point. what distinguishes a town syllo from a scum syllo in your opinion? He is way less conflict enticing / questions asking as scum and just chillax and agrees with people that are the right track. This game he says he will be lazy, but isn't and is activily doing shit left and right. So yeah. I'll take the wishes of the actual player over an interpretation of play from someone who is being supported by the player in question. Syllo has chosen himself to be taken out of the running and we should respect that.
On November 21 2012 22:45 syllogism wrote:
Right now it is likely that I will support sandroba if I do not gain the necessary votes, even if I'm not "fairly sure" that he is town. The problem is that just electing someone who is very likely to be town isn't enough as the person has to also be able to identify 3 townies at a high enough probability on day 1. Anyway, currently it would definitely optimal from my point of view that I would be elected over him due to my uncertainty. I'm not likely to put effort into convincing sandroba voters to switch to me, if that's what you mean by running, but I'm definitely "running" in the sense that I wouldn't mind people voting for me.
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United Kingdom36161 Posts
On November 22 2012 03:24 CaveJohnson wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2012 03:17 marvellosity wrote:On November 22 2012 03:16 CaveJohnson wrote:On November 22 2012 03:13 marvellosity wrote:On November 22 2012 03:10 Toadesstern wrote:On November 22 2012 03:04 Acrofales wrote:On November 22 2012 02:06 Toadesstern wrote:On November 22 2012 01:14 Acrofales wrote:On November 22 2012 00:36 Oatsmaster wrote:kush makes me want to shout at him in every single post... Ok for now, I think the party leader should be toadesstern because He started off his post with a scumread, which shows effort in reading the thread instead of mindlessly posting without actually analysing anything like almost every player so far. His posts look really sincere and his logic is spot on On November 21 2012 17:13 Toadesstern wrote:
Oh and I forgot: Yeah we need to find someone to send d1 and that's all nice and fine but I don't think it's a good way to keep the talk all focused on only that.
Faking townreads as mafias is incredibly easy. Faking mafiareads as mafia is something that takes effort. If we're only going to talk about who we're going to send d1 we're giving mafia an incredibly easy time skating by.
I know it feels counterintuitive as clearly the shortterm "goal" is to send a good guy d1 but I think we should try and balance those issues out. After all, the goal in the longrun is to figure people out and we won't be able to do that by playing nice all day long. His posts look really hard to fake for scum and because of his reputation as being imba, I am voting Toadesstern ##Vote: Toadsstern You clearly don't know toad at all. You don't even know toad's reputation. 1. Toad is notoriously hard to read. He posts giant walls of text that ramble on as either alignment and gets into hissyfits with whoever he feels like (most notoriously bugs and VE) as either alignment. 2. If he is imba, he is imba as scum, not so much as town. Personal opinion here, but I haven't seen toad make the difference as town. Unlike some other players in this game. Now on to the beef of your post: why exactly do you feel his posts are hard to fake as scum? What specific quality makes you lean town on him? So far I am seeing you park your vote in a similar manner to Keirathi, for a similar reason. Last time I had to gather people I was some sort of mason who get's to invite people each and every night to join his QT resulting in the QT growing in number every cycle and having an incredibly powerfull town-circle. I think I picked something like 5 townies straight without a problem at all, including people like WBG who are notoriously hard to read according to most people here. The only mistake I made was when I gambled in lategame as we had 2 Kenpachi-like people (real Kenpachi and someone like Kenpachi) who didn't play the game while not being able to get a read on Marv as well. I picked Marv because I figured that if neither of those 2 Kenpachis is mafia we've lost anyways because one of them will get lynched at some point and it already was lylo. So yeah I think I'm pretty decent when it comes to that as well. I agree I'm by no way the best scumhunter around and I'm mostly working by process of elimination but that's because I trust in my townreads so heavily and they're never wrong. So yeah I think I'm the right guy for the job. Not saying you're not. Just that I have reservations voting for you, and correcting the jubjubs as to your reputation. I've seen you play good as town. I've seen you play better as scum. I saw you are running and I like that. What makes you a better candidate than syllo or sandro? I don't think anyone in here can claim to be better than Syllo or sandro when it comes to reads if that's what you're asking. However unlike Syllo and Sandro I'm someone who's pretty talkactive and I will get people talking about reads. Syllo and Sandro both tend to be pretty lazy threadwise and I don't think that that's something we want for someone who's running for the d1 spot. I don't really see syllogism as lazy. Not his play so far anyway. On November 21 2012 15:28 syllogism wrote:
Oh Sandro is here and posting quite a bit, I may re-evaluate my nomination if I like what I see as I would definitely prefer being as lazy as possible On November 21 2012 22:55 sandroba wrote:On November 21 2012 22:51 marvellosity wrote:On November 21 2012 22:50 sandroba wrote:
I wouldn't mind syllo being leader either and if I win I will give him veto power over the people I choose. I'm fairly certain he is town at this point. what distinguishes a town syllo from a scum syllo in your opinion? He is way less conflict enticing / questions asking as scum and just chillax and agrees with people that are the right track. This game he says he will be lazy, but isn't and is activily doing shit left and right. So yeah. I'll take the wishes of the actual player over an interpretation of play from someone who is being supported by the player in question. Syllo has chosen himself to be taken out of the running and we should respect that.
On November 21 2012 22:45 syllogism wrote:
Right now it is likely that I will support sandroba if I do not gain the necessary votes, even if I'm not "fairly sure" that he is town. The problem is that just electing someone who is very likely to be town isn't enough as the person has to also be able to identify 3 townies at a high enough probability on day 1. Anyway, currently it would definitely optimal from my point of view that I would be elected over him due to my uncertainty. I'm not likely to put effort into convincing sandroba voters to switch to me, if that's what you mean by running, but I'm definitely "running" in the sense that I wouldn't mind people voting for me.
Last time I respond to you. You clearly don't read the thread.
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On November 22 2012 02:56 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2012 01:41 risk.nuke wrote:On November 22 2012 01:34 Acrofales wrote:On November 22 2012 00:34 risk.nuke wrote:
And speaking of old opinions. Acrofales, do you still advocate sending a team containing mostly vets. If not explain which reasons made you change your mind? Didn't I already answer that question? Oh yes. I remember. I did: On November 21 2012 20:45 Acrofales wrote:On November 21 2012 19:29 risk.nuke wrote:On November 21 2012 10:51 Acrofales wrote:This is going to be so much fun. I finally made it into a greymist game  I am going to go out and assume that Lavos will be a game element and not a player, seeing as he will be "summoned" later in the game. So I am going to assume that the quests are to get to Lavos, and get any town advantages we can on the way (somewhat similar to Resistance mafia). My suggestion is thus to play this just like resistance mafia. Everybody suggests the party they will make if chosen as leader today and gives their reasons. This should be done by 12 hours (or maybe 6, given that it's day 1 and people still need to get going) before the deadline, giving people time to vote on their preferred party leader. To get the discussion started, I would currently choose Marv, Sandro and Syllo along: I know them, I know Sandro and Syllo work well together, and I know they are all good players. I have no clue what the quest will be, so bringing the best players simply seems prudent. However, as the day goes on this may change if I get clear scum reads on any of them. For Sandro and Syllo I feel a scumread is viable in D1. I don't think I can get a read on Marv in D1, but he's still more readable than Toad, who I would otherwise put in that spot. Acrofales, can you elaborate why you immediately wanted to pick Sandroba, Marv, Syllo to go? What did you think would be the benefits and risks of sending three of our best players? Not reading the thread already? I was under the impression (and still expect it to be a very real possibility), that a successful mission will give the party members benefits (items, mason chat, a level up, whatever) that will help us root out mafia and/or directly aid us in fighting Lavos. The best players in the game are naturally the best equipped to use such perks. That is, if they're town. Sandro brought up a good counterargument, and making scum choose between shooting likely party members and shooting experienced town players is a good policy. On that note, @Sandro: you have not explained why this policy is pretty much the complete opposite of your proposal in Holy Roman, where you (a veteran and likely target for scum kp) wanted yourself as emperor (and thus a likely target for scum kp) precisely because you are an experienced player. On a similar note, if we follow that logic through, Sandro should not be party leader. At the time, I was leaning Djoref, because I was feeling town on him, and sending a somewhat experienced town seemed better than veteran Sandro with 3 noobies. However, he says he cannot commit the time, leaving us with Sandro and Syllo. Iamperfection and Dino are unfortunately not serious candidates for me. Perfection is way too focused on people seeing him as town and not nearly focused enough on playing the game. Dino is fluffy. Talking about fluffy, where is BioSC? No you haven't answered the question. I know where you stand on the mission leader. You've said you endorse both sandroba and syllogism and voted sandroba. But for the rest of the party? Do you still think veterans should be selected by sandroba to go on the mission? Or should I take your vote on sandroba (who've hinted he intend to send less known players) that you no longer support that idea. And if so my question was why. Show nested quote +On November 21 2012 20:45 Acrofales wrote:On November 21 2012 19:29 risk.nuke wrote:On November 21 2012 10:51 Acrofales wrote:This is going to be so much fun. I finally made it into a greymist game I am going to go out and assume that Lavos will be a game element and not a player, seeing as he will be "summoned" later in the game. So I am going to assume that the quests are to get to Lavos, and get any town advantages we can on the way (somewhat similar to Resistance mafia). My suggestion is thus to play this just like resistance mafia. Everybody suggests the party they will make if chosen as leader today and gives their reasons. This should be done by 12 hours (or maybe 6, given that it's day 1 and people still need to get going) before the deadline, giving people time to vote on their preferred party leader. To get the discussion started, I would currently choose Marv, Sandro and Syllo along: I know them, I know Sandro and Syllo work well together, and I know they are all good players. I have no clue what the quest will be, so bringing the best players simply seems prudent. However, as the day goes on this may change if I get clear scum reads on any of them. For Sandro and Syllo I feel a scumread is viable in D1. I don't think I can get a read on Marv in D1, but he's still more readable than Toad, who I would otherwise put in that spot. Acrofales, can you elaborate why you immediately wanted to pick Sandroba, Marv, Syllo to go? What did you think would be the benefits and risks of sending three of our best players? Not reading the thread already? I was under the impression (and still expect it to be a very real possibility), that a successful mission will give the party members benefits (items, mason chat, a level up, whatever) that will help us root out mafia and/or directly aid us in fighting Lavos. The best players in the game are naturally the best equipped to use such perks. That is, if they're town. Sandro brought up a good counterargument, and making scum choose between shooting likely party members and shooting experienced town players is a good policy.On that note, @Sandro: you have not explained why this policy is pretty much the complete opposite of your proposal in Holy Roman, where you (a veteran and likely target for scum kp) wanted yourself as emperor (and thus a likely target for scum kp) precisely because you are an experienced player. On a similar note, if we follow that logic through, Sandro should not be party leader. Made it big bold and blue, because you apparently can't read otherwise. It means I like Sandro's policy and agree that as long as town people are picked I don't mind them being newbs who may not be able to best use any potential rewards, because veterans could be too much of a target for scum KP in any case without heaping more on.
Wrong. That ment Sandroba brought up a good argument. It said nothing about you changing your stance. But whatever.
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On November 22 2012 03:24 CaveJohnson wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2012 03:17 marvellosity wrote:On November 22 2012 03:16 CaveJohnson wrote:On November 22 2012 03:13 marvellosity wrote:On November 22 2012 03:10 Toadesstern wrote:On November 22 2012 03:04 Acrofales wrote:On November 22 2012 02:06 Toadesstern wrote:On November 22 2012 01:14 Acrofales wrote:On November 22 2012 00:36 Oatsmaster wrote:kush makes me want to shout at him in every single post... Ok for now, I think the party leader should be toadesstern because He started off his post with a scumread, which shows effort in reading the thread instead of mindlessly posting without actually analysing anything like almost every player so far. His posts look really sincere and his logic is spot on On November 21 2012 17:13 Toadesstern wrote:
Oh and I forgot: Yeah we need to find someone to send d1 and that's all nice and fine but I don't think it's a good way to keep the talk all focused on only that.
Faking townreads as mafias is incredibly easy. Faking mafiareads as mafia is something that takes effort. If we're only going to talk about who we're going to send d1 we're giving mafia an incredibly easy time skating by.
I know it feels counterintuitive as clearly the shortterm "goal" is to send a good guy d1 but I think we should try and balance those issues out. After all, the goal in the longrun is to figure people out and we won't be able to do that by playing nice all day long. His posts look really hard to fake for scum and because of his reputation as being imba, I am voting Toadesstern ##Vote: Toadsstern You clearly don't know toad at all. You don't even know toad's reputation. 1. Toad is notoriously hard to read. He posts giant walls of text that ramble on as either alignment and gets into hissyfits with whoever he feels like (most notoriously bugs and VE) as either alignment. 2. If he is imba, he is imba as scum, not so much as town. Personal opinion here, but I haven't seen toad make the difference as town. Unlike some other players in this game. Now on to the beef of your post: why exactly do you feel his posts are hard to fake as scum? What specific quality makes you lean town on him? So far I am seeing you park your vote in a similar manner to Keirathi, for a similar reason. Last time I had to gather people I was some sort of mason who get's to invite people each and every night to join his QT resulting in the QT growing in number every cycle and having an incredibly powerfull town-circle. I think I picked something like 5 townies straight without a problem at all, including people like WBG who are notoriously hard to read according to most people here. The only mistake I made was when I gambled in lategame as we had 2 Kenpachi-like people (real Kenpachi and someone like Kenpachi) who didn't play the game while not being able to get a read on Marv as well. I picked Marv because I figured that if neither of those 2 Kenpachis is mafia we've lost anyways because one of them will get lynched at some point and it already was lylo. So yeah I think I'm pretty decent when it comes to that as well. I agree I'm by no way the best scumhunter around and I'm mostly working by process of elimination but that's because I trust in my townreads so heavily and they're never wrong. So yeah I think I'm the right guy for the job. Not saying you're not. Just that I have reservations voting for you, and correcting the jubjubs as to your reputation. I've seen you play good as town. I've seen you play better as scum. I saw you are running and I like that. What makes you a better candidate than syllo or sandro? I don't think anyone in here can claim to be better than Syllo or sandro when it comes to reads if that's what you're asking. However unlike Syllo and Sandro I'm someone who's pretty talkactive and I will get people talking about reads. Syllo and Sandro both tend to be pretty lazy threadwise and I don't think that that's something we want for someone who's running for the d1 spot. I don't really see syllogism as lazy. Not his play so far anyway. On November 21 2012 15:28 syllogism wrote:
Oh Sandro is here and posting quite a bit, I may re-evaluate my nomination if I like what I see as I would definitely prefer being as lazy as possible On November 21 2012 22:55 sandroba wrote:On November 21 2012 22:51 marvellosity wrote:On November 21 2012 22:50 sandroba wrote:
I wouldn't mind syllo being leader either and if I win I will give him veto power over the people I choose. I'm fairly certain he is town at this point. what distinguishes a town syllo from a scum syllo in your opinion? He is way less conflict enticing / questions asking as scum and just chillax and agrees with people that are the right track. This game he says he will be lazy, but isn't and is activily doing shit left and right. So yeah. I'll take the wishes of the actual player over an interpretation of play from someone who is being supported by the player in question. Syllo has chosen himself to be taken out of the running and we should respect that.
Your previous post looks like someone going through a filter trying to force something instead of going through a filter and coming to the conclusion. This post just looks like you backpedaling with a weak excuse. Admit you were wrong, like I did with my plan even though I still think my revised plan is a good idea, and move on. Dragging it out just makes you look bad.
1) Syllo didn't even chose that
2) What does that have to do with anything? No one even suggested a vote for syllo in that quote chain at all.
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On November 22 2012 03:28 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2012 03:24 CaveJohnson wrote:On November 22 2012 03:17 marvellosity wrote:On November 22 2012 03:16 CaveJohnson wrote:On November 22 2012 03:13 marvellosity wrote:On November 22 2012 03:10 Toadesstern wrote:On November 22 2012 03:04 Acrofales wrote:On November 22 2012 02:06 Toadesstern wrote:On November 22 2012 01:14 Acrofales wrote:On November 22 2012 00:36 Oatsmaster wrote:
kush makes me want to shout at him in every single post...
Ok for now, I think the party leader should be toadesstern because
He started off his post with a scumread, which shows effort in reading the thread instead of mindlessly posting without actually analysing anything like almost every player so far.
His posts look really sincere and his logic is spot on
[quote]
His posts look really hard to fake for scum and because of his reputation as being imba, I am voting Toadesstern
##Vote: Toadsstern You clearly don't know toad at all. You don't even know toad's reputation. 1. Toad is notoriously hard to read. He posts giant walls of text that ramble on as either alignment and gets into hissyfits with whoever he feels like (most notoriously bugs and VE) as either alignment. 2. If he is imba, he is imba as scum, not so much as town. Personal opinion here, but I haven't seen toad make the difference as town. Unlike some other players in this game. Now on to the beef of your post: why exactly do you feel his posts are hard to fake as scum? What specific quality makes you lean town on him? So far I am seeing you park your vote in a similar manner to Keirathi, for a similar reason. Last time I had to gather people I was some sort of mason who get's to invite people each and every night to join his QT resulting in the QT growing in number every cycle and having an incredibly powerfull town-circle. I think I picked something like 5 townies straight without a problem at all, including people like WBG who are notoriously hard to read according to most people here. The only mistake I made was when I gambled in lategame as we had 2 Kenpachi-like people (real Kenpachi and someone like Kenpachi) who didn't play the game while not being able to get a read on Marv as well. I picked Marv because I figured that if neither of those 2 Kenpachis is mafia we've lost anyways because one of them will get lynched at some point and it already was lylo. So yeah I think I'm pretty decent when it comes to that as well. I agree I'm by no way the best scumhunter around and I'm mostly working by process of elimination but that's because I trust in my townreads so heavily and they're never wrong. So yeah I think I'm the right guy for the job. Not saying you're not. Just that I have reservations voting for you, and correcting the jubjubs as to your reputation. I've seen you play good as town. I've seen you play better as scum. I saw you are running and I like that. What makes you a better candidate than syllo or sandro? I don't think anyone in here can claim to be better than Syllo or sandro when it comes to reads if that's what you're asking. However unlike Syllo and Sandro I'm someone who's pretty talkactive and I will get people talking about reads. Syllo and Sandro both tend to be pretty lazy threadwise and I don't think that that's something we want for someone who's running for the d1 spot. I don't really see syllogism as lazy. Not his play so far anyway. On November 21 2012 15:28 syllogism wrote:
Oh Sandro is here and posting quite a bit, I may re-evaluate my nomination if I like what I see as I would definitely prefer being as lazy as possible On November 21 2012 22:55 sandroba wrote:On November 21 2012 22:51 marvellosity wrote:On November 21 2012 22:50 sandroba wrote:
I wouldn't mind syllo being leader either and if I win I will give him veto power over the people I choose. I'm fairly certain he is town at this point. what distinguishes a town syllo from a scum syllo in your opinion? He is way less conflict enticing / questions asking as scum and just chillax and agrees with people that are the right track. This game he says he will be lazy, but isn't and is activily doing shit left and right. So yeah. I'll take the wishes of the actual player over an interpretation of play from someone who is being supported by the player in question. Syllo has chosen himself to be taken out of the running and we should respect that. Show nested quote +On November 21 2012 22:45 syllogism wrote:
Right now it is likely that I will support sandroba if I do not gain the necessary votes, even if I'm not "fairly sure" that he is town. The problem is that just electing someone who is very likely to be town isn't enough as the person has to also be able to identify 3 townies at a high enough probability on day 1. Anyway, currently it would definitely optimal from my point of view that I would be elected over him due to my uncertainty. I'm not likely to put effort into convincing sandroba voters to switch to me, if that's what you mean by running, but I'm definitely "running" in the sense that I wouldn't mind people voting for me.
Last time I respond to you. You clearly don't read the thread.
He doesn't care to convince people - Thats taking himself out of the running.
You clearly don't read the thread
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On November 22 2012 03:23 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2012 03:14 Dienosore wrote:
I italicized 'first' because I wanted to draw attention to the fact that party leaders will be changing quite often and I feel as if people are thinking this is going to be a permanent position.
As for the majority elected team, I think it's more logical to do things this way, at least for the first cycle while we are completely in the dark. I don't view polling the masses as dodging responsibility, but rather taking away the mafias chance to have an iron grip on the initial proceedings (assuming scum is elected and starts a dictatorship). By putting the vote out into the open, we also have another opportunity to see where loyalties lie. I will correct you on this: 1. Polls are a terrible idea in mafia (I have tried to use them myself in my younger more nubby days and they are a terrible idea) 2. Expecting that mafia cannot manipulate a vote (especially an anonymous vote as in the poll system) is exceedingly naive. 3. You are dodging responsibility, because one of the reasons for voting for a leader is so he can be held accountable for his team. If the party fails, then everybody in that party comes under serious suspicion, but the leader most of all: he put a party together with at least one scumster (and probably more, or third parties, or something). Given that town reads are generally easier than scumreads, especially so early in the game, that means the leader either has really bad judgement, someone really fooled the crap out of him, or he is scum. By avoiding this dilemma and putting it up to majority vote, you cannot be held accountable in this manner, thus dodging this use of the party system, which, in the long run may very well be its most powerful use.
I agree with your first two points, but I disagree with the third. Simply because he wants more people involved in the decision doesn't mean he doesn't want the responsibility. I'm assuming he's voicing the idea for whoever the leader ends up as. It's very similar to my idea.
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On November 22 2012 03:36 CaveJohnson wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2012 03:28 marvellosity wrote:On November 22 2012 03:24 CaveJohnson wrote:On November 22 2012 03:17 marvellosity wrote:On November 22 2012 03:16 CaveJohnson wrote:On November 22 2012 03:13 marvellosity wrote:On November 22 2012 03:10 Toadesstern wrote:On November 22 2012 03:04 Acrofales wrote:On November 22 2012 02:06 Toadesstern wrote:On November 22 2012 01:14 Acrofales wrote:
[quote]
You clearly don't know toad at all. You don't even know toad's reputation.
1. Toad is notoriously hard to read. He posts giant walls of text that ramble on as either alignment and gets into hissyfits with whoever he feels like (most notoriously bugs and VE) as either alignment.
2. If he is imba, he is imba as scum, not so much as town. Personal opinion here, but I haven't seen toad make the difference as town. Unlike some other players in this game.
Now on to the beef of your post: why exactly do you feel his posts are hard to fake as scum? What specific quality makes you lean town on him? So far I am seeing you park your vote in a similar manner to Keirathi, for a similar reason. Last time I had to gather people I was some sort of mason who get's to invite people each and every night to join his QT resulting in the QT growing in number every cycle and having an incredibly powerfull town-circle. I think I picked something like 5 townies straight without a problem at all, including people like WBG who are notoriously hard to read according to most people here. The only mistake I made was when I gambled in lategame as we had 2 Kenpachi-like people (real Kenpachi and someone like Kenpachi) who didn't play the game while not being able to get a read on Marv as well. I picked Marv because I figured that if neither of those 2 Kenpachis is mafia we've lost anyways because one of them will get lynched at some point and it already was lylo. So yeah I think I'm pretty decent when it comes to that as well. I agree I'm by no way the best scumhunter around and I'm mostly working by process of elimination but that's because I trust in my townreads so heavily and they're never wrong. So yeah I think I'm the right guy for the job. Not saying you're not. Just that I have reservations voting for you, and correcting the jubjubs as to your reputation. I've seen you play good as town. I've seen you play better as scum. I saw you are running and I like that. What makes you a better candidate than syllo or sandro? I don't think anyone in here can claim to be better than Syllo or sandro when it comes to reads if that's what you're asking. However unlike Syllo and Sandro I'm someone who's pretty talkactive and I will get people talking about reads. Syllo and Sandro both tend to be pretty lazy threadwise and I don't think that that's something we want for someone who's running for the d1 spot. I don't really see syllogism as lazy. Not his play so far anyway. On November 21 2012 15:28 syllogism wrote:
Oh Sandro is here and posting quite a bit, I may re-evaluate my nomination if I like what I see as I would definitely prefer being as lazy as possible On November 21 2012 22:55 sandroba wrote:On November 21 2012 22:51 marvellosity wrote:On November 21 2012 22:50 sandroba wrote:
I wouldn't mind syllo being leader either and if I win I will give him veto power over the people I choose. I'm fairly certain he is town at this point. what distinguishes a town syllo from a scum syllo in your opinion? He is way less conflict enticing / questions asking as scum and just chillax and agrees with people that are the right track. This game he says he will be lazy, but isn't and is activily doing shit left and right. So yeah. I'll take the wishes of the actual player over an interpretation of play from someone who is being supported by the player in question. Syllo has chosen himself to be taken out of the running and we should respect that. On November 21 2012 22:45 syllogism wrote:
Right now it is likely that I will support sandroba if I do not gain the necessary votes, even if I'm not "fairly sure" that he is town. The problem is that just electing someone who is very likely to be town isn't enough as the person has to also be able to identify 3 townies at a high enough probability on day 1. Anyway, currently it would definitely optimal from my point of view that I would be elected over him due to my uncertainty. I'm not likely to put effort into convincing sandroba voters to switch to me, if that's what you mean by running, but I'm definitely "running" in the sense that I wouldn't mind people voting for me.
Last time I respond to you. You clearly don't read the thread. He doesn't care to convince people - Thats taking himself out of the running. You clearly don't read the thread
Just stop.
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On November 22 2012 03:36 CaveJohnson wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2012 03:28 marvellosity wrote:On November 22 2012 03:24 CaveJohnson wrote:On November 22 2012 03:17 marvellosity wrote:On November 22 2012 03:16 CaveJohnson wrote:On November 22 2012 03:13 marvellosity wrote:On November 22 2012 03:10 Toadesstern wrote:On November 22 2012 03:04 Acrofales wrote:On November 22 2012 02:06 Toadesstern wrote:On November 22 2012 01:14 Acrofales wrote:
[quote]
You clearly don't know toad at all. You don't even know toad's reputation.
1. Toad is notoriously hard to read. He posts giant walls of text that ramble on as either alignment and gets into hissyfits with whoever he feels like (most notoriously bugs and VE) as either alignment.
2. If he is imba, he is imba as scum, not so much as town. Personal opinion here, but I haven't seen toad make the difference as town. Unlike some other players in this game.
Now on to the beef of your post: why exactly do you feel his posts are hard to fake as scum? What specific quality makes you lean town on him? So far I am seeing you park your vote in a similar manner to Keirathi, for a similar reason. Last time I had to gather people I was some sort of mason who get's to invite people each and every night to join his QT resulting in the QT growing in number every cycle and having an incredibly powerfull town-circle. I think I picked something like 5 townies straight without a problem at all, including people like WBG who are notoriously hard to read according to most people here. The only mistake I made was when I gambled in lategame as we had 2 Kenpachi-like people (real Kenpachi and someone like Kenpachi) who didn't play the game while not being able to get a read on Marv as well. I picked Marv because I figured that if neither of those 2 Kenpachis is mafia we've lost anyways because one of them will get lynched at some point and it already was lylo. So yeah I think I'm pretty decent when it comes to that as well. I agree I'm by no way the best scumhunter around and I'm mostly working by process of elimination but that's because I trust in my townreads so heavily and they're never wrong. So yeah I think I'm the right guy for the job. Not saying you're not. Just that I have reservations voting for you, and correcting the jubjubs as to your reputation. I've seen you play good as town. I've seen you play better as scum. I saw you are running and I like that. What makes you a better candidate than syllo or sandro? I don't think anyone in here can claim to be better than Syllo or sandro when it comes to reads if that's what you're asking. However unlike Syllo and Sandro I'm someone who's pretty talkactive and I will get people talking about reads. Syllo and Sandro both tend to be pretty lazy threadwise and I don't think that that's something we want for someone who's running for the d1 spot. I don't really see syllogism as lazy. Not his play so far anyway. On November 21 2012 15:28 syllogism wrote:
Oh Sandro is here and posting quite a bit, I may re-evaluate my nomination if I like what I see as I would definitely prefer being as lazy as possible On November 21 2012 22:55 sandroba wrote:On November 21 2012 22:51 marvellosity wrote:On November 21 2012 22:50 sandroba wrote:
I wouldn't mind syllo being leader either and if I win I will give him veto power over the people I choose. I'm fairly certain he is town at this point. what distinguishes a town syllo from a scum syllo in your opinion? He is way less conflict enticing / questions asking as scum and just chillax and agrees with people that are the right track. This game he says he will be lazy, but isn't and is activily doing shit left and right. So yeah. I'll take the wishes of the actual player over an interpretation of play from someone who is being supported by the player in question. Syllo has chosen himself to be taken out of the running and we should respect that. On November 21 2012 22:45 syllogism wrote:
Right now it is likely that I will support sandroba if I do not gain the necessary votes, even if I'm not "fairly sure" that he is town. The problem is that just electing someone who is very likely to be town isn't enough as the person has to also be able to identify 3 townies at a high enough probability on day 1. Anyway, currently it would definitely optimal from my point of view that I would be elected over him due to my uncertainty. I'm not likely to put effort into convincing sandroba voters to switch to me, if that's what you mean by running, but I'm definitely "running" in the sense that I wouldn't mind people voting for me.
Last time I respond to you. You clearly don't read the thread. He doesn't care to convince people - Thats taking himself out of the running. You clearly don't read the thread
Since I'm hoping marv keeps himself in check,
I'm not likely to put effort into convincing sandroba voters to switch to me, if that's what you mean by running
If I ran, he'd probably be trying to get votes FROM me onto himself. But I'm not running. Sandroba is running, and syllo is a-okay with people voting sandroba.
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On November 22 2012 03:38 Hopeless1der wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2012 03:36 CaveJohnson wrote:On November 22 2012 03:28 marvellosity wrote:On November 22 2012 03:24 CaveJohnson wrote:On November 22 2012 03:17 marvellosity wrote:On November 22 2012 03:16 CaveJohnson wrote:On November 22 2012 03:13 marvellosity wrote:On November 22 2012 03:10 Toadesstern wrote:On November 22 2012 03:04 Acrofales wrote:On November 22 2012 02:06 Toadesstern wrote:
[quote]
Last time I had to gather people I was some sort of mason who get's to invite people each and every night to join his QT resulting in the QT growing in number every cycle and having an incredibly powerfull town-circle.
I think I picked something like 5 townies straight without a problem at all, including people like WBG who are notoriously hard to read according to most people here. The only mistake I made was when I gambled in lategame as we had 2 Kenpachi-like people (real Kenpachi and someone like Kenpachi) who didn't play the game while not being able to get a read on Marv as well. I picked Marv because I figured that if neither of those 2 Kenpachis is mafia we've lost anyways because one of them will get lynched at some point and it already was lylo.
So yeah I think I'm pretty decent when it comes to that as well. I agree I'm by no way the best scumhunter around and I'm mostly working by process of elimination but that's because I trust in my townreads so heavily and they're never wrong.
So yeah I think I'm the right guy for the job. Not saying you're not. Just that I have reservations voting for you, and correcting the jubjubs as to your reputation. I've seen you play good as town. I've seen you play better as scum. I saw you are running and I like that. What makes you a better candidate than syllo or sandro? I don't think anyone in here can claim to be better than Syllo or sandro when it comes to reads if that's what you're asking. However unlike Syllo and Sandro I'm someone who's pretty talkactive and I will get people talking about reads. Syllo and Sandro both tend to be pretty lazy threadwise and I don't think that that's something we want for someone who's running for the d1 spot. I don't really see syllogism as lazy. Not his play so far anyway. On November 21 2012 15:28 syllogism wrote:
Oh Sandro is here and posting quite a bit, I may re-evaluate my nomination if I like what I see as I would definitely prefer being as lazy as possible On November 21 2012 22:55 sandroba wrote:On November 21 2012 22:51 marvellosity wrote:On November 21 2012 22:50 sandroba wrote:
I wouldn't mind syllo being leader either and if I win I will give him veto power over the people I choose. I'm fairly certain he is town at this point. what distinguishes a town syllo from a scum syllo in your opinion? He is way less conflict enticing / questions asking as scum and just chillax and agrees with people that are the right track. This game he says he will be lazy, but isn't and is activily doing shit left and right. So yeah. I'll take the wishes of the actual player over an interpretation of play from someone who is being supported by the player in question. Syllo has chosen himself to be taken out of the running and we should respect that. On November 21 2012 22:45 syllogism wrote:
Right now it is likely that I will support sandroba if I do not gain the necessary votes, even if I'm not "fairly sure" that he is town. The problem is that just electing someone who is very likely to be town isn't enough as the person has to also be able to identify 3 townies at a high enough probability on day 1. Anyway, currently it would definitely optimal from my point of view that I would be elected over him due to my uncertainty. I'm not likely to put effort into convincing sandroba voters to switch to me, if that's what you mean by running, but I'm definitely "running" in the sense that I wouldn't mind people voting for me.
Last time I respond to you. You clearly don't read the thread. He doesn't care to convince people - Thats taking himself out of the running. You clearly don't read the thread Since I'm hoping marv keeps himself in check, Show nested quote +
I'm not likely to put effort into convincing sandroba voters to switch to me, if that's what you mean by running
If I ran, he'd probably be trying to get votes FROM me onto himself. But I'm not running. Sandroba is running, and syllo is a-okay with people voting sandroba.
Splitting votes is a silly idea in that situation. It would have to take Sand stepping down and you gaining a majority for Syllo to actually run properly.
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I'm going to place my vote on syllo. Cave seems to be pushing syllo as someone who can't be elected because he's "taken himself out" when he's a very viable candidate. I'm driving to California, and won't be back in the thread for a good 12 hours. I will try to keep up with the thread on my phone, though. Just don't expect your questions to be answered until I get to my parents' place tonight.
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On November 22 2012 03:41 CaveJohnson wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2012 03:38 Hopeless1der wrote:On November 22 2012 03:36 CaveJohnson wrote:On November 22 2012 03:28 marvellosity wrote:On November 22 2012 03:24 CaveJohnson wrote:On November 22 2012 03:17 marvellosity wrote:On November 22 2012 03:16 CaveJohnson wrote:On November 22 2012 03:13 marvellosity wrote:On November 22 2012 03:10 Toadesstern wrote:On November 22 2012 03:04 Acrofales wrote:
[quote]
Not saying you're not. Just that I have reservations voting for you, and correcting the jubjubs as to your reputation. I've seen you play good as town. I've seen you play better as scum. I saw you are running and I like that. What makes you a better candidate than syllo or sandro?
I don't think anyone in here can claim to be better than Syllo or sandro when it comes to reads if that's what you're asking. However unlike Syllo and Sandro I'm someone who's pretty talkactive and I will get people talking about reads. Syllo and Sandro both tend to be pretty lazy threadwise and I don't think that that's something we want for someone who's running for the d1 spot. I don't really see syllogism as lazy. Not his play so far anyway. On November 21 2012 15:28 syllogism wrote:
Oh Sandro is here and posting quite a bit, I may re-evaluate my nomination if I like what I see as I would definitely prefer being as lazy as possible On November 21 2012 22:55 sandroba wrote:On November 21 2012 22:51 marvellosity wrote:On November 21 2012 22:50 sandroba wrote:
I wouldn't mind syllo being leader either and if I win I will give him veto power over the people I choose. I'm fairly certain he is town at this point. what distinguishes a town syllo from a scum syllo in your opinion? He is way less conflict enticing / questions asking as scum and just chillax and agrees with people that are the right track. This game he says he will be lazy, but isn't and is activily doing shit left and right. So yeah. I'll take the wishes of the actual player over an interpretation of play from someone who is being supported by the player in question. Syllo has chosen himself to be taken out of the running and we should respect that. On November 21 2012 22:45 syllogism wrote:
Right now it is likely that I will support sandroba if I do not gain the necessary votes, even if I'm not "fairly sure" that he is town. The problem is that just electing someone who is very likely to be town isn't enough as the person has to also be able to identify 3 townies at a high enough probability on day 1. Anyway, currently it would definitely optimal from my point of view that I would be elected over him due to my uncertainty. I'm not likely to put effort into convincing sandroba voters to switch to me, if that's what you mean by running, but I'm definitely "running" in the sense that I wouldn't mind people voting for me.
Last time I respond to you. You clearly don't read the thread. He doesn't care to convince people - Thats taking himself out of the running. You clearly don't read the thread Since I'm hoping marv keeps himself in check,
I'm not likely to put effort into convincing sandroba voters to switch to me, if that's what you mean by running
If I ran, he'd probably be trying to get votes FROM me onto himself. But I'm not running. Sandroba is running, and syllo is a-okay with people voting sandroba. Splitting votes is a silly idea in that situation. It would have to take Sand stepping down and you gaining a majority for Syllo to actually run properly.
I meant that if we hypothetically replaced sandroba with myself, syllo would step up his game. Your whole thing about syllo being lazy and scummy is mis-representative of what has been put into the thread because he's not removing himself in general, he's removing competition for sandroba.
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On November 22 2012 03:49 Hopeless1der wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2012 03:41 CaveJohnson wrote:On November 22 2012 03:38 Hopeless1der wrote:On November 22 2012 03:36 CaveJohnson wrote:On November 22 2012 03:28 marvellosity wrote:On November 22 2012 03:24 CaveJohnson wrote:On November 22 2012 03:17 marvellosity wrote:On November 22 2012 03:16 CaveJohnson wrote:On November 22 2012 03:13 marvellosity wrote:On November 22 2012 03:10 Toadesstern wrote:
[quote]
I don't think anyone in here can claim to be better than Syllo or sandro when it comes to reads if that's what you're asking.
However unlike Syllo and Sandro I'm someone who's pretty talkactive and I will get people talking about reads.
Syllo and Sandro both tend to be pretty lazy threadwise and I don't think that that's something we want for someone who's running for the d1 spot. I don't really see syllogism as lazy. Not his play so far anyway. On November 21 2012 15:28 syllogism wrote:
Oh Sandro is here and posting quite a bit, I may re-evaluate my nomination if I like what I see as I would definitely prefer being as lazy as possible On November 21 2012 22:55 sandroba wrote:On November 21 2012 22:51 marvellosity wrote:On November 21 2012 22:50 sandroba wrote:
I wouldn't mind syllo being leader either and if I win I will give him veto power over the people I choose. I'm fairly certain he is town at this point. what distinguishes a town syllo from a scum syllo in your opinion? He is way less conflict enticing / questions asking as scum and just chillax and agrees with people that are the right track. This game he says he will be lazy, but isn't and is activily doing shit left and right. So yeah. I'll take the wishes of the actual player over an interpretation of play from someone who is being supported by the player in question. Syllo has chosen himself to be taken out of the running and we should respect that. On November 21 2012 22:45 syllogism wrote:
Right now it is likely that I will support sandroba if I do not gain the necessary votes, even if I'm not "fairly sure" that he is town. The problem is that just electing someone who is very likely to be town isn't enough as the person has to also be able to identify 3 townies at a high enough probability on day 1. Anyway, currently it would definitely optimal from my point of view that I would be elected over him due to my uncertainty. I'm not likely to put effort into convincing sandroba voters to switch to me, if that's what you mean by running, but I'm definitely "running" in the sense that I wouldn't mind people voting for me.
Last time I respond to you. You clearly don't read the thread. He doesn't care to convince people - Thats taking himself out of the running. You clearly don't read the thread Since I'm hoping marv keeps himself in check,
I'm not likely to put effort into convincing sandroba voters to switch to me, if that's what you mean by running
If I ran, he'd probably be trying to get votes FROM me onto himself. But I'm not running. Sandroba is running, and syllo is a-okay with people voting sandroba. Splitting votes is a silly idea in that situation. It would have to take Sand stepping down and you gaining a majority for Syllo to actually run properly. I meant that if we hypothetically replaced sandroba with myself, syllo would step up his game. Your whole thing about syllo being lazy and scummy is mis-representative of what has been put into the thread because he's not removing himself in general, he's removing competition for sandroba.
I never said he was scummy I just don't believe we should be wasting our votes on someone who doesn't care to put in the effort and should be ignoring him as a viable candidate while Sandroba is in the running.
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Brunei Darussalam622 Posts
Hmm, thanks for the responses to my platform, guys. I knew it would be a (likely) possibility for the mafia to push someone into the group when I suggested it. In fact, I was actually counting on a move like that. It's true that we might lose the first challenge and someone might die, but then we would know for sure one of those people are scum. Then we would only have to flip the scope on those three people and root out the villain, and we would have the polling process to help us draw info.
I know the move is risky, but it is a calculated risk. Of course if you have a better way to identify mafia, one that perhaps doesn't potentially sacrifice a towny to draw out scum or one that doesn't include blind reads, I'm all ears.
[On second thought, I think its pretty clear now I don't have any real shot at first leader. However, I would still like my day 1 strategy to be considered by whoever is in that position]
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Good morning folks, glad to see the game has started in full swing. I've got a LOT to catch up on, see you in 20-30 mins.
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On November 22 2012 03:52 Dienosore wrote:
Hmm, thanks for the responses to my platform, guys. I knew it would be a (likely) possibility for the mafia to push someone into the group when I suggested it. In fact, I was actually counting on a move like that. It's true that we might lose the first challenge and someone might die, but then we would know for sure one of those people are scum. Then we would only have to flip the scope on those three people and root out the villain, and we would have the polling process to help us draw info.
I know the move is risky, but it is a calculated risk. Of course if you have a better way to identify mafia, one that perhaps doesn't potentially sacrifice a towny to draw out scum or one that doesn't include blind reads, I'm all ears.
[On second thought, I think its pretty clear now I don't have any real shot at first leader. However, I would still like my day 1 strategy to be considered by whoever is in that position]
That's true regardless of how the party is formed. Event Failure = scum was present. Your plan just makes failure more likely for day 1. The only benefit is that scum have to be more careful about outing themselves through the voting, but if it were actually a poll, it'd be anonymous anyways.
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Sandroba: when you are back, I would like to know if you have reconsidered Dienosore at all based on new content, in addition to explaining what about clarity_nl's play you find suspect. Some kind of mafia reads would also be helpful. Also any thoughts regarding the current candidate situation?
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On November 21 2012 12:47 marvellosity wrote:
TheChronicler, take a moment, sip a glass of wine, and ponder why every single person who has read your idea has thought it terrible.
It's either because you're a genius, transcended on a plane above any of us mere mortals, or your idea is bad.
lol
(this thread is long, just wanted to say hi)
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On November 21 2012 12:55 iamperfection wrote:
So you guys are looking for someone that has a very distinguishable town meta as opposed to his scum meta.
Hrm let me think about this for a second??????? hrm who could it possibly me...........
Wait a tick
fucking me thats who
I nominate the perfect one as the leader because he is the best choice. Not only am i town this game i also have a very distinguishable town meta from my scum meta.
Also the perfect one is known for his generosity and his fairness
i am very active and will be able to keep up with the thread very easily so i will easily take the towns input for selecting my team
So vote iamperfection 2012
ummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
yeah
I can assert this too, doesn't make it true
or useful
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On November 21 2012 12:57 Acrofales wrote:
Fine. My town read is on TheChronicler. He's either new to the game or a longtime vet fucking with us. In the former case, a noob scum would not be proposing some shitty plan like that. In the latter, he was gauging reactions and hoping to get scum to bite. Also, not a scumplay.
It's not a very useful town read, though, because I don't want to vote for him precisely because his plan was terrible.
huh
like, how random is this? I mean, i can give or take the logic, but did you really need to explain your useless town read right then?
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On November 21 2012 13:05 iamperfection wrote:
also why do we have to have the leader select all 3 wouldn't it be best for the town to put some input on the other team members?
I feel like this was already discussed to death (with thechronicler's terrible plan, among others); why bring it up again just then?
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EPT
