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On November 21 2012 17:15 syllogism wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2012 17:06 sandroba wrote:On November 21 2012 17:01 syllogism wrote:
All this talk about treating this game like Resistance is misguided or malicious, at least if the implication is that the game is only about looking for townies. Resistance is a game with no roles, transparent mechanics, no flips, clear goal and every day you gain information that isn't particularly subject to manipulation. In this game there is some sort of mafia NK mechanic, hitpoint mechanic, likely a lot of roles and town can even win by eliminating all the mafia. This suggests that there is a lot of KP in the game and it is not limited to just mafia. Moreover, I think the more mafia are left alive when Lavos is summoned, the harder it is for town to win.
The point being, there is little reason for us not to also be looking for mafia in the thread. Mafia have relatively easy time blending in if all they have to do is pretend to be looking for townies or even worse every single day just look for the best party leader. Identifying likely mafia will also give our blues something to work on.
So, while it's fine that we early on discuss about who is likely to be town or who would be the good leader, this shouldn't last and the game should be played quite like a normal mafia game. Town hunting can be mostly restricted to your spreadsheets unless you are trying to convince the likely party leader to include someone on the team. I predict it will be harder for us to find scum with no lynch voting. I think the best bet at least for d1 is to concentrate in finding a team that will succeed in the mission and let us learn more about the game mechanics. Really? What do you expect to learn about game mechanics after day 1 and how do you think will that impact our play? While mafia has easier time bussing their team mates in this format, they still do not want town to start treating some of their players are likely mafia. If there we allow players to just look for townies and all the discussion revolves around that, it is going to be more difficult to identify mafia, which can also make it more difficult to identify townies, at least for a lot of players. Lynch mechanic or not, mafia still has to fake their mafia reads or bus and they would rather not do either. Discussions relating as to who people think are mafia produce a lot more useful information.
I'd like to know the outcome of the mission, results from night actions, kp mafia has etc to get a better grasp at the mechanincs. Of course I'm not saying we shouldn't talk about who we think are mafia/ who we wouldn't like to see on missions, but I think the focus specially for d1 should be on getting a solid team. This game will prob be extremelly blue action oriented so we can spam our reads to help out but in the end the colective effort should be on getting teams toghether and keeping mafia out of them. Of course that involves identifying who the likely mafia are.
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By outcome I mean what we get from it after we succeed.
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On November 21 2012 17:33 syllogism wrote:
But getting a team together is not a collective effort; players only have to identify one likely townie who is also likely capable of identifying 3 additional ones. If I was a party leader, I wouldn't pay much attention to who most people think are town. As such I suppose it can be argued the possible party leaders should devote more time on town hunting, but everyone else should mostly just justify their party leader vote and spend the rest of their efforts on finding mafia.
Do you agree that it's easier to get reads if people post and explain their mafia reads than if they only talk about who they find to likely be town?
Yes, you are correct indeed. I guess I was thinking already as how to be effective as party leader. But you have a point that if people discuss their mafia reads it will be easier.
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Yep, it's the dude above indeed.
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come'on look at the way he entered the thread. that's like as townie as it gets =P
either way you have your share bit of work to do to =P. I guess I'll know by day 2?
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On November 21 2012 18:13 Keirathi wrote:
Syllogism/sandroba:
You guys have ignored us, but what do you think of Toads reasoning for me being scum? Do you think I'm scum?
What about Deinos 2 scum reads and 2 town reads? Agree or disagree with any of them?
I wouldn't put you as a town read, but I don't agree with toads case on you. I'll say nothing point to me one way or another so far. About deinos I agree on oats as I've said before. Not quite sure on acro still, I'd put him the same as you. GK and djo I'm slightly leaning town so far.
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On November 21 2012 22:19 syllogism wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2012 22:03 Acrofales wrote:On November 21 2012 21:47 syllogism wrote:On November 21 2012 21:32 Acrofales wrote:On November 21 2012 21:27 syllogism wrote:On November 21 2012 21:23 Acrofales wrote:
@syllo and phagga: you advocate a policy of scumhunting, yet are doing no scumhunting. People who seem to be clearly focused on scumhunting so far: clarity and toad. Why are you not in that list?
Syllo at least is giving a running commentary of the game. Phagga just posted the policy of scumhunting and went away.
Phagga, why are you not practicing what you preach? What are you talking about? I'm absolutely hunting for mafia. This is how you do it; by engaging in conversations and asking for clarifications and opinions. Making cases is for convincing everyone else. First time you engaged in a conversation was with Sandro. For you that is not a conversation, as you and Sandro can mindread each other. This is the second conversation you are engaging in. Everything else has been a running commentary. Do you think I'm more or less likely to have a conversation with a player who can "mindread" me if I'm mafia? So far your point of view on things has not appeared honest to me or at the very least your analysis isn't on the level I would expect if you are town. Also this is not the second conversation. I think that that is irrelevant and pointless wifom, because if one of you is scum and the other isn't, you would be dead scared of each other in any case and try to act normally. I think it is fairly normal for you and sandro to have a conversation and it will not affect his ability to mindread you one way or another. However, if you are asking me if I think you are scum, then no, I don't. I am still rather null on you. However, there are things in your play that make me suspicious. Firstly, the things Kita just pointed out, and secondly because I feel you are making alot of your "scumhunting" while actually it amounts to very little. As for my honesty, at least I'm not fakeclaiming mason (yet). This is a really pointless and irrelevant topic, but it would serve you well to stop using the term WIFOM and if you are town you should not attempt to downplay things that a person of one alignment is clearly more likely to do. That is all that mafia is, determining what is more likely. You can reduce anything to a level where you can claim it's "wifom" when in fact it is evidence of someone's alignment. WIFOM is a meaningless term used by lazy players, people who do not understand mafia or mafia aligned players who want to wave away evidence of someone being town.
I wholeheartedly support this post.
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I wont take clarity with me if I get elected. He smells funny.
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I wouldn't mind syllo being leader either and if I win I will give him veto power over the people I choose. I'm fairly certain he is town at this point.
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On November 21 2012 22:51 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2012 22:50 sandroba wrote:
I wouldn't mind syllo being leader either and if I win I will give him veto power over the people I choose. I'm fairly certain he is town at this point. what distinguishes a town syllo from a scum syllo in your opinion?
He is way less conflict enticing / questions asking as scum and just chillax and agrees with people that are the right track. This game he says he will be lazy, but isn't and is activily doing shit left and right. So yeah.
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I just woke up and there is 20 more pages, I'll respond to stuff as I read:
On November 22 2012 00:01 goodkarma wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2012 22:50 sandroba wrote:
I wouldn't mind syllo being leader either and if I win I will give him veto power over the people I choose. I'm fairly certain he is town at this point. I found this particular quote to be upsetting. I understand, on the one hand, if you have a town read on syllo. But I don't understand why you would be willing to go so far as to allow him to veto your picks. If you're not that confident in your choices, you should as well just have him pick for you... Or better yet, let him be party leader. As current "frontrunner" I would like a response from you on this scandal. Are you looking to concede and have syllo run in your stead, or was this merely an assertion that you are super-confident syllo is town?
I'm very confident he is town. We talk about reads and games constantly in skype when we are not playing in it, and we get better results when we work toghether I believe.
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On November 22 2012 02:22 Promethelax wrote:
You know catching up with this thread is a million times worse than I was hoping, remember how I said that I was toning down the amount which I am posting? Could you all do me a favour and consolidate too. Thanks.
After reading the last ~20 pages I have come to a conclusion as to who I want to vote. It isn't Sylo and it isn't Sand. Their abilities are, no doubt, incredible but I don't like the way Sand took over the thread early and no one challenged him. I feel that a mafia player would in fact have tried to take over. (Remember Matt's reed of Decundo in PP) as such I'll be voting away from the two of them and towards someone who I read as town right now and who is known for having good reads.
## Vote: Acro
Come on boys, lets do this right and make Sand have to fight for his nomination.
I'll be out again for a few hours. See ya'll soon.
That's a clear misrepresentation of what happened. Many people were putting their names out there to be party leader and I came about with a different aproach and it got support based on the ideas in it. Mafia hardly ever goes against the consensus and stick their neck out there to oppose in that way. That's a shitty, if not mafia oriented, reason for opposing me. You even include syllo in it randomly and don't comment on why he isn't the choice.
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On November 22 2012 03:24 CaveJohnson wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2012 03:17 marvellosity wrote:On November 22 2012 03:16 CaveJohnson wrote:On November 22 2012 03:13 marvellosity wrote:On November 22 2012 03:10 Toadesstern wrote:On November 22 2012 03:04 Acrofales wrote:On November 22 2012 02:06 Toadesstern wrote:On November 22 2012 01:14 Acrofales wrote:On November 22 2012 00:36 Oatsmaster wrote:kush makes me want to shout at him in every single post... Ok for now, I think the party leader should be toadesstern because He started off his post with a scumread, which shows effort in reading the thread instead of mindlessly posting without actually analysing anything like almost every player so far. His posts look really sincere and his logic is spot on On November 21 2012 17:13 Toadesstern wrote:
Oh and I forgot: Yeah we need to find someone to send d1 and that's all nice and fine but I don't think it's a good way to keep the talk all focused on only that.
Faking townreads as mafias is incredibly easy. Faking mafiareads as mafia is something that takes effort. If we're only going to talk about who we're going to send d1 we're giving mafia an incredibly easy time skating by.
I know it feels counterintuitive as clearly the shortterm "goal" is to send a good guy d1 but I think we should try and balance those issues out. After all, the goal in the longrun is to figure people out and we won't be able to do that by playing nice all day long. His posts look really hard to fake for scum and because of his reputation as being imba, I am voting Toadesstern ##Vote: Toadsstern You clearly don't know toad at all. You don't even know toad's reputation. 1. Toad is notoriously hard to read. He posts giant walls of text that ramble on as either alignment and gets into hissyfits with whoever he feels like (most notoriously bugs and VE) as either alignment. 2. If he is imba, he is imba as scum, not so much as town. Personal opinion here, but I haven't seen toad make the difference as town. Unlike some other players in this game. Now on to the beef of your post: why exactly do you feel his posts are hard to fake as scum? What specific quality makes you lean town on him? So far I am seeing you park your vote in a similar manner to Keirathi, for a similar reason. Last time I had to gather people I was some sort of mason who get's to invite people each and every night to join his QT resulting in the QT growing in number every cycle and having an incredibly powerfull town-circle. I think I picked something like 5 townies straight without a problem at all, including people like WBG who are notoriously hard to read according to most people here. The only mistake I made was when I gambled in lategame as we had 2 Kenpachi-like people (real Kenpachi and someone like Kenpachi) who didn't play the game while not being able to get a read on Marv as well. I picked Marv because I figured that if neither of those 2 Kenpachis is mafia we've lost anyways because one of them will get lynched at some point and it already was lylo. So yeah I think I'm pretty decent when it comes to that as well. I agree I'm by no way the best scumhunter around and I'm mostly working by process of elimination but that's because I trust in my townreads so heavily and they're never wrong. So yeah I think I'm the right guy for the job. Not saying you're not. Just that I have reservations voting for you, and correcting the jubjubs as to your reputation. I've seen you play good as town. I've seen you play better as scum. I saw you are running and I like that. What makes you a better candidate than syllo or sandro? I don't think anyone in here can claim to be better than Syllo or sandro when it comes to reads if that's what you're asking. However unlike Syllo and Sandro I'm someone who's pretty talkactive and I will get people talking about reads. Syllo and Sandro both tend to be pretty lazy threadwise and I don't think that that's something we want for someone who's running for the d1 spot. I don't really see syllogism as lazy. Not his play so far anyway. On November 21 2012 15:28 syllogism wrote:
Oh Sandro is here and posting quite a bit, I may re-evaluate my nomination if I like what I see as I would definitely prefer being as lazy as possible On November 21 2012 22:55 sandroba wrote:On November 21 2012 22:51 marvellosity wrote:On November 21 2012 22:50 sandroba wrote:
I wouldn't mind syllo being leader either and if I win I will give him veto power over the people I choose. I'm fairly certain he is town at this point. what distinguishes a town syllo from a scum syllo in your opinion? He is way less conflict enticing / questions asking as scum and just chillax and agrees with people that are the right track. This game he says he will be lazy, but isn't and is activily doing shit left and right. So yeah. I'll take the wishes of the actual player over an interpretation of play from someone who is being supported by the player in question. Syllo has chosen himself to be taken out of the running and we should respect that.
Are you being obtuse on purpose or are you not reading the thread? I sugest you give it a good read before you ever post again.
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On November 22 2012 04:05 syllogism wrote:
Sandroba: when you are back, I would like to know if you have reconsidered Dienosore at all based on new content, in addition to explaining what about clarity_nl's play you find suspect. Some kind of mafia reads would also be helpful. Also any thoughts regarding the current candidate situation?
I had clarity as scum, but I'm kinda torn on it right now after the marv/clarity exchange. I took a look at mario and it does look similar. Earlier he was pouncing with one-liners on weak stuff people posted and that tipped me off. And about Die, yeah I still think he is town. What makes you dissagree?
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On November 22 2012 05:59 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2012 05:49 iamperfection wrote:On November 22 2012 05:47 Acrofales wrote:On November 22 2012 05:34 iamperfection wrote:On November 22 2012 04:11 strongandbig wrote:On November 21 2012 12:55 iamperfection wrote:
So you guys are looking for someone that has a very distinguishable town meta as opposed to his scum meta.
Hrm let me think about this for a second??????? hrm who could it possibly me...........
Wait a tick
fucking me thats who
I nominate the perfect one as the leader because he is the best choice. Not only am i town this game i also have a very distinguishable town meta from my scum meta.
Also the perfect one is known for his generosity and his fairness
i am very active and will be able to keep up with the thread very easily so i will easily take the towns input for selecting my team
So vote iamperfection 2012 ummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm yeah I can assert this too, doesn't make it true or useful um it is actually true ask anybody. Don't ask me. I think you're scum. You have been completely useless all game and if other people's assessments of your meta are any good, then your town meta is to be constructive rather than yell at the top of your lungs that you're town. My only experience with you was in Caller's failed game, where you were a veteran vampire cult, so I won't go on my own experience playing with you. oh really would you point to something specific then. You are wanting me to quote the absense of useful posts by you? How am I supposed to do that? If you want examples of you yelling at the top of your lungs that you're town, here's a brief compilation: [spoiler="IAMTOWN!!!1111"] Show nested quote +On November 21 2012 12:55 iamperfection wrote:
So you guys are looking for someone that has a very distinguishable town meta as opposed to his scum meta.
Hrm let me think about this for a second??????? hrm who could it possibly me...........
Wait a tick
fucking me thats who
I nominate the perfect one as the leader because he is the best choice. Not only am i town this game i also have a very distinguishable town meta from my scum meta.
Also the perfect one is known for his generosity and his fairness
i am very active and will be able to keep up with the thread very easily so i will easily take the towns input for selecting my team
So vote iamperfection 2012 Not only am I town, but everybody can see that I'm town from my meta!!! Not seeing it yet... Show nested quote +On November 21 2012 13:01 iamperfection wrote:
also you people that have played with me before do not ignore me you know what i say is true. Call me town, pretty please? Show nested quote +On November 21 2012 13:15 iamperfection wrote:On November 21 2012 13:13 Z-BosoN wrote:On November 21 2012 13:05 iamperfection wrote:
also why do we have to have the leader select all 3 wouldn't it be best for the town to put some input on the other team members? That was my original train of thought. But should the decision become the leader's, that puts a TON of pressure on him (if he is very transparent in his thoughts), and helps consolidate our read on said leader. so we need someone who can hadle pressure well??? Once again me GSL II me as scum terrible game but got very dicey towards the end kush my partner started to wet his pants but i stayed calm and cool led to my victory. Another reason to vote me Dude, I'm town AND awesome! Show nested quote +On November 21 2012 13:49 iamperfection wrote:
as much as i would love stay up with you fine chaps it is past my bed time
For those who have played with me before comment on me.
you know i have an easy town meta to read so say what you already know to be true iamperfection should be on the team I am town and I can write it in BIG BLACK BOLD LETTERS!!!111Show nested quote +On November 21 2012 23:34 iamperfection wrote:
@ marv
i should be on the team right. Please Marv, please call me town? Given that the rest of your filter is almost all meaningless banter, I fail to see how anybody could get a town read from this if your normal town meta is to be constructive. So don't you "ask anybody in the thread" on me as if you are confirmed town. You're not, shape up and stop looking scummy. [/spoiler]
Acro this case is terrible and you should know better. The behavior you pointed out does not point to one alignment or the other.
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On November 22 2012 08:57 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2012 08:25 Dienosore wrote:On November 22 2012 08:19 strongandbig wrote:
Hokay so
I just finished reading this massive thread
I also have yet to vote.
I am thus a swing voter and demand pandering.
As far as I can tell, there are three "real" campaigns (real meaning the candidate actually intends to get elected) - Sandroba, Syllogism, and Toad.
All three campaigns are based around the fundamental premise "i'm a vet, i'm town, i have good reads, and i'm self confident enough to take responsibility for my actions."
Unless I've missed something, that's pretty much 100% of syllogism's campaign.
Sandroba has his "get some noobs semi confirmed" thing
Toad says he'll talk a lot
Out of those, I gotta say Sandroba's got the lead on talking points, so I have questions for the other two:
Syllogism, it's been a pretty long time since you started your campaign. You said you weren't going to lock yourself in to your party or whatever early, but do you have anything more for us by now? Or is it 100% that you're running because you know you're town and you're still not sure of Sandroba?
Toad, why do you need to be the party leader to do that stuff you were saying you would do about getting people to talk about reads, and putting yourself under scrutiny so we get a better read on you? Shouldn't you be doing all that anyway, and why is it a campaign point? Mine name is Glenn...Cyrus' hopes and dreams...and now the Masamune, forthwith I shall slay Magus and restore honor! There is yet time to aid me on my quest. Elect me your party leader! Ok. This roleclaim was stupid. Which part of "don't roleclaim" did you not get when I said that. I don't believe scum would claim Frog... and I find this play far too ballsy for a noob 3rd party, making this guy an actual town Frog. Sandro, Syllo, Toad: would you take this guy along on a quest?
I actually had a theory I discussed with syllo before the game started of how frog could be third party with the wincon of slaying magus then winning with town. I do believe he would count as town though for the purpose of mission success even if that's the case. So yeah I prob would.
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On November 22 2012 09:49 Hapahauli wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2012 09:41 sandroba wrote:I just woke up and there is 20 more pages, I'll respond to stuff as I read: On November 22 2012 00:01 goodkarma wrote:On November 21 2012 22:50 sandroba wrote:
I wouldn't mind syllo being leader either and if I win I will give him veto power over the people I choose. I'm fairly certain he is town at this point. I found this particular quote to be upsetting. I understand, on the one hand, if you have a town read on syllo. But I don't understand why you would be willing to go so far as to allow him to veto your picks. If you're not that confident in your choices, you should as well just have him pick for you... Or better yet, let him be party leader. As current "frontrunner" I would like a response from you on this scandal. Are you looking to concede and have syllo run in your stead, or was this merely an assertion that you are super-confident syllo is town? I'm very confident he is town. We talk about reads and games constantly in skype when we are not playing in it, and we get better results when we work toghether I believe. Is there a reason you consider him so townie? I'm thinking of voting you or him myself, so any reasoning you could provide would help.
I believe I gave a brief sumary to marv already some 20 pages ago. I've played and talked with him a lot and I'm pretty sure I can tell. We often discuss games toghether so I know what's up with his thought process.
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@kita sup. Any reason why you don't like me as a candidate? It's fair to assume that given your inactivity you being elected is a long shot like it or not. Isn't it time you read the thread a throw your support behind someone you think is town and has a shot?
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Also I would like to propose we erradicate the use of term scummy. Next time you feel the urge of using it, instead use "this behavior is mafia oriented because as town you would do X, while as mafia you benefit from doing Y". I'm tired of reading that word blended into terrible cases that postulate something is "scummy" out of thin air.
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You will notice it's quite harder to say someone is scum using the new phrasing, because it actually requires you to analyse the motivations behind a post and use your heads for a moment. What a concept!
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EPT
