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Mario Mini Mafia - Page 5

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Djodref
Profile Joined September 2012
France3332 Posts
November 18 2012 05:38 GMT
#2589
@ Clarity

The mass claim is going to give us or sure the following information.

BH fake claiming or not
Presence of a SK or not

I was out yesterday night and I couldn't wake up for the lynch but my vote would still have been on BH. He is my top scumread and we need to lynch him to win this game in my opinion. I was not going to lynch Z-Bo because he was one of my town read and I'm sorry for not having been here to defend him. And I was not going to lynch S&B because he is on the same page on me regarding BH. So I was not going to change my vote anyway.
I've tried to talk with DP and debears about it but they were not listening. I'm quite disappointed that they called me stupid and stuff. Honestly, the town atmosphere could be better if people were realizing that they are discussing with other fellow townies most of the time.
Djodref
Profile Joined September 2012
France3332 Posts
November 18 2012 05:40 GMT
#2590
@ Kickstart

I need to know why you want to lynch me and what you are thinking about my mass-claim plan now that I gave more precision.

@ Clarity

Do you want to know if BH claim is fake or not ?
Do you want to know if there is a SK or not ?
Would you say that Hopeless is confirmed Vig ? Would you like to have more confirmed town players ?
Djodref
Profile Joined September 2012
France3332 Posts
November 18 2012 05:45 GMT
#2594
On November 18 2012 14:29 Kickstart wrote:
I think other layers look more town than you. Come to think if it, if it came down to it BH should go before you imo. So
1st snb
2nd djo
3rd BH

And how you interpreted me saying that some roles are going to lie (namely scum and SK if there is one) as I am going to lie I don't know Djo.


@ Kickstart

I was being sarcastic with the question "Are you planning to lie?". I always forgot that sarcasm doesn't work really well on internet forums

Anyway, if we mass-claim, one or two guys are going to lie. If BH is not already lying, then they have no choice but to claim VT. So we can focus only on the unconfirmed VT players. Seriously, the game is going to be freaking easy if we follow this plan. Are you still not convinced ?

If not, please read my posts again and also the page about the C9++ setup.
Djodref
Profile Joined September 2012
France3332 Posts
November 18 2012 05:55 GMT
#2597
On November 18 2012 14:41 iamperfection wrote:
s&b like wtf man you just disappear like wtf dude.

I know my little mini case on you is kind of silly with the dota thing is crazy but you could at least call it stupid. DO YOU CARE s&b.

Bh think about your action critically please i will lead the wagon of justice against you myself if you make another dumb play this game.

Also DP want to hear your thoughts in light of zbos flip is clarity who your still thinking now because i dont really see it.

djo i know you think setup speculation but please do some traditional scum hunting before dawn.

I will post updated thoughts in the 1 hour grace period like last time. I will probably be quieter tomorrow because weekends are bad for my mafia play but i will be here 100% during that grace period.



@ iamp

I'm sorry but I don't think that we need traditional scum hunting if we mass-claim. Why would you want to read in details 130 pages of posts when you can use simple logic to find the bad guys ? Are you in or not ?

Anyway I want to lynch BH tomorrow so I'll bring a case against him. S&B is on my side so I'm not inclined to lynch him...
I am a bit wary of debears right now because he has been a little stupid wrt the Z-Bo lynch and this is not something I expect from town debears. But it's sunday and he has a long filter and I think there is a better way to solve this game.
Djodref
Profile Joined September 2012
France3332 Posts
November 18 2012 06:25 GMT
#2601
On November 18 2012 14:43 Clarity_nl wrote:
How does mass claiming confirm that there's an SK? I think hopeless is 98% vigi and I will not lynch him until lylo, or if we lynch the scum and the game doesn't end.

I'm thinking about the mass claim, but it's hard to justify exposing all our blues. I'll go along if others do.


@ Clarity

I think that Hope is Vig even if we obtain the proof that there is a SK with a mass claim.
Are you familiar with the C9++ setup ? If not, I recommend to have a careful look at this page. It's quite interesting and I think this is something you have to know if you want to be a better player and/or if you want to host a game sometime.

Anyway, here is the most interesting part regarding the setup, given our current situation. To sum up, the scum roles are a function of the number of "T" letters you obtain when you pick 7 letters in between the following letter probability set.
T = 1/2
D = 1/10 (in our game, the "D" letter gives us JK roles)
V = 1/10 (one-shot Vigs only)
M = 1/10 (mason and miller roles)
B = 1/20 (town RB roles)
C = 3/20 (you need two "C" letters to have one fully operational Cop in the game)

Please note that one of the letters in our rolled set for this game is M and that one other is V (Hopeless). Let's take a look at the different possibilities for the scum roles.

Scum Roles

TTTTTTT = Goon + Godfather, Serial Killer
a 7 "T" letter set is impossible because we have at least one "M"
TTTTTT = Goon + Godfather
impossible because we would already have won the game
TTTTT = Goon + Godfather, Serial Killer
This setup is possible only if one of BH or Hopeless is lying and is the remaining SK. I think we can safely discard this possibility unless we are at lylo with BH or with Hopeless. Moreover, there are only 2 mafia in this setup and no more blues on top of Hopeless and BH, even if one of them is lying. MVTTTTT or MDTTTTT if you want.
TTTT = 2 Goons + Roleblocker
impossible setup because of Bowser flip
TTT = 2 Goons + Roleblocker, Serial Killer (Investigation Immune OR 1-Shot Bulletproof)
impossible setup because of Bowser flip
TT = Goon + Roleblocker + Godfather
I think that this is the setup we are in (and it is the most likely probability-wise, something like 40%). It leaves the room for 2 or 3 more blues on top of Hopeless, information that we can be confirm with a mass-claim.
T = Goon + Roleblocker + Godfather, Serial Killer (Investigation Immune OR 1-Shot Bulletproof)
This setup has roughly a 15% probability to happen. It can also be confirmed with a mass claim but it would leave us in a dangerous position with all the blues revealed for the SK and the remaining scum. But we would know for sure that there is a SK and start looking for him seriously. Anyway, it is less likely to happen.
0 Ts = Goon + Roleblocker + Godfather
This setup has only a 5% probability to happen. We would have enough blue to outright solve the game.

Is there anything stil unclear ?
The more I think about it, the more I think that mass claiming at the end of the night is our best move but I need everyone participation. I beg you to seriously consider it.
Djodref
Profile Joined September 2012
France3332 Posts
November 18 2012 06:31 GMT
#2603
On November 18 2012 15:04 Clarity_nl wrote:
Currently the holy town trinity is iamp, hope and myself.

Currently the scum that looks to be buddying up with a scummy town to look more towny is Djo or SnB.

Currently Kickstart, Darth, debears, blazing are ALL not contributing. And it's driving me up the goddamn wall.


@ Clarity

I don't understand where you coming from with the "buddy" think. Could you be more explicit ?

I'm trying to get everyone participation in my plan to win this game, that's all. And I also think it would be better for town atmosphere if people would stop to insult each other and start to listen at each other more. And that makes sense because it is likely that we have only one bad guy left.
Djodref
Profile Joined September 2012
France3332 Posts
November 18 2012 06:32 GMT
#2606
On November 18 2012 15:29 Kickstart wrote:
I don't feel like saying much more tbh, nothing has changed. We should not have lynched ZB we should have lynched SnB, this is how I felt then and how I feel now and it is how I will vote. I still am not sure how mass claim will clear anything up Djo. Here is how it will work: Bh claims JK, hope claims vig, everyone else will say VT. We don't require a claim to figure out that this is how it will turn out. My point is I think we are just as well off not claiming but again, if a majority of people want to then whatever I will as it makes no real difference to me, I just don't think it will shed as much light on the situation as you do.


@ Kickstart

This is impossible, please read my posts in detail.
Djodref
Profile Joined September 2012
France3332 Posts
November 18 2012 06:36 GMT
#2608
On November 18 2012 15:01 iamperfection wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 18 2012 14:55 Djodref wrote:
On November 18 2012 14:41 iamperfection wrote:
s&b like wtf man you just disappear like wtf dude.

I know my little mini case on you is kind of silly with the dota thing is crazy but you could at least call it stupid. DO YOU CARE s&b.

Bh think about your action critically please i will lead the wagon of justice against you myself if you make another dumb play this game.

Also DP want to hear your thoughts in light of zbos flip is clarity who your still thinking now because i dont really see it.

djo i know you think setup speculation but please do some traditional scum hunting before dawn.

I will post updated thoughts in the 1 hour grace period like last time. I will probably be quieter tomorrow because weekends are bad for my mafia play but i will be here 100% during that grace period.



@ iamp

I'm sorry but I don't think that we need traditional scum hunting if we mass-claim. Why would you want to read in details 130 pages of posts when you can use simple logic to find the bad guys ? Are you in or not ?

Anyway I want to lynch BH tomorrow so I'll bring a case against him. S&B is on my side so I'm not inclined to lynch him...
I am a bit wary of debears right now because he has been a little stupid wrt the Z-Bo lynch and this is not something I expect from town debears. But it's sunday and he has a long filter and I think there is a better way to solve this game.

was i being unreasonable?

Do it and ill do the mass claim.

Also wouldn't it feel double nice if after your traditional scumhunting you catch them with setup speculation?

double win see.


@ iamp

Actually, that's a good argument. If you don't mind, I'll try to explain the concept one more time to Kickstart and Clarity because they are here and is seems to me that they don't see how mass claim would greatly help us to solve the game. I'll look at debears after that
Djodref
Profile Joined September 2012
France3332 Posts
November 18 2012 06:42 GMT
#2615
On November 18 2012 15:31 Kickstart wrote:
EBWOP

IF there are more blues, it is up to them to claim as their claims are the only thing that will make your plan work, and really that is up to them.


@ Kickstart

That's not really true. Because if we have enough VT claims, the blues are going to be outed anyway. That's why I want to discuss this plan beforehand. I understand that the blue decision should be more important but it can force them to claim if enough people are following the plan.

Do you understand now how it is going to allow us to know is BH claim is fake or not ?
Do you understand now how we can be sure if there is a SK or not ?
Djodref
Profile Joined September 2012
France3332 Posts
November 18 2012 06:46 GMT
#2616
On November 18 2012 15:38 Clarity_nl wrote:
How about you actually let us think about it rather than spamming the thread with giant posts that just repeat all the other giant posts you've made.


@ Clarity

You know my style
But that's ok, I'll give you some time. Please take the time to check the link I gave, it's quite interesting ^^
Djodref
Profile Joined September 2012
France3332 Posts
November 18 2012 07:01 GMT
#2626
@ Blazinghand

I hate to admit it but you have a point here. The decision is in the hands of the blue players.
But I disagree with the fact that I should not try to convince them to claim because I think it would give us enough information to solve the game. I want to influence their decision and I don't see what is wring with that.
If you were another blue in this game, what would you think of my plan ?
Djodref
Profile Joined September 2012
France3332 Posts
November 18 2012 07:09 GMT
#2629
On November 18 2012 15:55 Blazinghand wrote:
Djoref you're still opting out of serious scumhunting discussion with your specious claim-strats, setup speculation, and unnatural tunneling of me. I gave you a pass for 72 hours to get your shit together, and I'm really not seeing it. Is your transition here really to try to out a blue who doesn't want to be outed? The blues make their own decisions, not you.


@ BH

My claim strat is not specious, it's likely that it would end the game for us. But I understand that you don't want to admit the validity of it.
My tunneling is not unnatural. Most likely, there is only one bad guy left. You fit the profile so I want you dead. I'm not going to give you any rest until you are lynched or manage somehow to show me that you are indeed a town player. I'm quite the stubborn and tunnely type ^^
Djodref
Profile Joined September 2012
France3332 Posts
November 18 2012 07:14 GMT
#2632
@ The Blues

Please consider all my posts I've made to show how much a mass claim strategy would help us. I think you have now enough arguments at your disposition so you take your decision. I'll drop this subject now unless someone asks me directly a setup-related question.
Djodref
Profile Joined September 2012
France3332 Posts
November 18 2012 07:28 GMT
#2640
On November 18 2012 16:13 Blazinghand wrote:
<snip>

You may think I'm scum, but surely you don't think it's a 100% chance. And by the way you're playing, I, and many people who do in fact not think I'm scum, can't get a townread on you. What do you want me to do, man? I'm not one to push people to acknowledge they could be wrong, but even when I am pushing a guy close to lynch time, I tell him to give out some final reads in case he flips town. I account for the possibility of being wrong.

I guess I'll put this plainly: If you don't make cases on anyone else and if continue as you are now, I'm lynching you tomorrow. End of story, you're out of the game.


This one is actually correct, it's not a 100% chance because it you have an uncontested JK claim for the moment and I might be wrong after all. There is a way to know for sure if we can believe this claim or not but I understand now that it is not my decision. I'm back to scumhunting now I suppose.
Actually, your latest posts made sense so I'll look seriously into debears before the deadline.
Djodref
Profile Joined September 2012
France3332 Posts
November 18 2012 08:04 GMT
#2657
On November 18 2012 16:52 Blazinghand wrote:
4 blues like high-quality blues, like JK Vigi DT DT? I'd be pretty surprised if that was the setup, but if it's possible according to the setup generator whatever. Really though, it should be up to the blues to claim or not claim regardless, not up to us.


@ BH

Actually, having 1 Cop takes two "C" letters and having 2 Cop takes four "C" letters in the 7 letters set that defines our game. So we don't have two cops for sure.
Djodref
Profile Joined September 2012
France3332 Posts
November 18 2012 08:06 GMT
#2659
On November 18 2012 16:58 Clarity_nl wrote:
Okay. I agree with the fact that blues should choose whether to claim or not.
If they plan on claiming, during the resolution would be the best time.
If a blue claims during resolution, remaining blues (if they exist) should claim and all the vt's should claim.

What do you think, Djo?


I agree with that. I totally agree with that.
I've done enough already to convince them that they should claim. It's up to them now
Djodref
Profile Joined September 2012
France3332 Posts
November 18 2012 08:48 GMT
#2667
lol

Ok, I've just read Kickstart filter one more time and I have still a town read on him. But there are some things I don't like in his filter, especially during D2. It's still a town read but I'm not as sure as before.

Why I'm still leaning town on him
  • The general tone of his posts. He is open about his thought process and seems genuine and honest in his reads. I've got a "newbie-town" feeling when I'm reading his posts and I'm inclined to trust this kind of feeling given my experience in the newbie games when my guts were rarely wrong wrt newb town players.
  • His last minute vote from nowhere against Hapa (the last one before DarthPunk hammer)
  • This contribution + Show Spoiler +
    On November 16 2012 10:21 Kickstart wrote:
    So anyways I looked back over the D1 lynch to read through it more carefully because it was a huge mess. Here are some of my thoughts on it.

    Show nested quote +
    On November 15 2012 11:00 Dandel Ion wrote:
    Final Votecount:

    DarthPunk (1): thrawn2112
    Z-BosoN (5): Clarity_nl, marvellosity, Crossfire99, strongandbig, Hapahauli
    debears (1): Hopeless1der
    Hapahauli (6): Z-BosoN, Blazinghand, debears, iamperfection, Kickstart, DarthPunk

    Hapahauli has been lynched!

    Full version (disregarded):

    + Show Spoiler +
    debears (2): Z-Boson, strongandbig, Hapahauli, Hopeless1nder, marvellosity, strongandbig
    DarthPunk (7): Hapahauli Hapahauli, Clarity_nl, thrawn2112, Blazinghand, iamperfection, Blazinghand, Blazinghand, Hapahauli, debears, Z-BosoN, Kickstart, debears
    Hopeless1der (0): debears, marvellosity, marvellosity, Z-BosoN, Kickstart, debears, debears
    Z-BosoN (4): Blazinghand, iamperfection, Blazinghand, marvellosity, Clarity_nl, marvellosity, DarthPunk, Crossfire99
    Hapahauli (0): iamperfection, strongandbig. Kickstart, Blazinghand
    Blazinghand (0): iamperfection, Z-BosoN, marvellosity, iamperfection, strongandbig, Crossfire99
    iamperfection (0): Hapahauli, Bloatinghand
    thrawn2112 (0): Hapahauli
    strongandbig (0): DarthPunk, Z-BosoN, Clarity_nl, Hapahauli, DarthPunk
    Clarity_nl (0): DarthPunk
    marvellosity (0): debears
    Crossfire99 (0): marvellosity, debears, Blazinghand


    Not voting (0):


    Now the townreads aren't set in stone for everyone I put as town nor are the people I didn't mark green suspicious, this is just based off of the D1 lynch and I would like to make a case for why I think these people are town:

    Regarding Z-BosoN
    Here is just an outline of my views on ZB throughout the game so far because my town read on him just builds as time has gone on.

    + Show Spoiler +
    On November 14 2012 00:41 Kickstart wrote:
    @debears

    I have a slight scum read on Hapa at the moment, because of what I outlined in that post and the fact that in general I found his posting to be (trying to find the most polite way to phrase it :D) non-productive.

    Hopeless hasn't really stood out to me too much. His posting has been under the radar and not sticking his neck out much, almost his entire filter is the discussion about if crossfire is a smurf or not. So overall I view him as slightly "anti-town" thus far. I would just like to hear more of his thoughts on something/someone not related to cross being a smurf or not.

    ZB started the SnB bandwagon which I have already stated I am completely against, so I want to see if he sticks with it. In general his posts have been substantive - out of six posts one is a roleclaim, two he casts a vote on someone and gives some explanation, and then the others he is reacting to/reading people. I see no reason yet to question his miller claim, but again a lot of that could change depending on how he continues with the SnB vote.

    With that I am going to go to sleep and won't be back on for awhile. I will try and catch up and post before heading to class but if not I have all night once I get back!


    So I did not like the whole SnB bandwagon to begin with and therefor was watching how ZB acted around it but off the bat I felt his posts were pro-town and contributing.
    ZB came under fire for his new posting habits but the above is part of the reason why I didn't like the meta case and why I refused to lynchvote ZB.

    See this quote for more of the same on why I didn't want to lynchvote ZB (made at the time when a large number of votes were on him):

    + Show Spoiler +
    On November 15 2012 09:57 Kickstart wrote:
    Regarding Z-Boson
    I am not comfortable with a lynch on ZB. So he is playing differently and posting less, but when I take a look at his filter I see some very lengthy and thought out posts that offer good analysis. I don't think that lynching him due to him posting differently this game is fair, especially when his posts are pretty significant (I said earlier that even though his filter wasn't large, every post contributed something). I take Hapas word that before this game even started he talked with ZB and ZB discussed wanting to change his posting style a bit (though a skype log would be nice!).
    Why lynch someone who has changed their posting style when you could be lynching someone who isn't being pro-town at all:


    Regarding Hopeless1der
    Look at his filter, there is NO attempt to find scum, the only person he gos after is debears, but only after debears went after him. The first half of his filter is talk about people being afk and/or smurfs - this really doesn't help at all. And his post where he reads debears:
    + Show Spoiler +

    On November 14 2012 22:16 Hopeless1der wrote:
    Show nested quote +
    On November 14 2012 14:54 debears wrote:
    For all you who think me being afk is a scumtell, which you guys are retarded if you do

    Let me just say this once. Fuck off debears. Nothing personal, but in all seriousness OMGUS. I'm still your scum read because I've done nothing since you laid into me for 'lecturing town'. If you still want to harp on that chord, you're not being a good little townie. I was afk for longer than you were, and you have nothing new to post in the thread.

    I'll lay this out for you. This is the post I was "lecturing" about:
    Show nested quote +
    On November 13 2012 10:49 DarthPunk wrote:
    On November 13 2012 10:44 marvellosity wrote:
    you can't active lurk in a game that's less than 2 hours old, numbnuts.

    If anyone's 'active lurking' it's me. Put that in your pipe and smoke it.


    Don't shut people down who are obviously trying their best to scum hunt and contribute. You are only going to discourage those things. Or is that what you want?


    I was not lecturing everyone, I was responding to a single post and listing multiple examples of less than stellar reasons to vote for someone.

    I was told to drop it with you so you could focus on the rest of the game instead, because I was distracting you from being useful.
    Show nested quote +
    On November 14 2012 00:17 marvellosity wrote:
    Hopeless, I think you're making too much of that. The bit you bold says "was" - past tense, that was his stance previously (when he'd missed my Crossfire post).

    Like debears said just now there's not a lot to say about Crossfire otherwise, you can't really have a stance on someone who hasn't posted yet.

    The whole issue is overblown and should be dropped. If only because it's a big distraction to debears, who has to keep talking about it, and it's not helping anyone

    And yet I'm still your top scum read and iamperfection is still the only other player you'll really talk about. You haven't commented on anything significant (neither have I yet, but fuck it, you're already voting me)

    I dont give a shit what your IRL issues are, same as you probably dont care why I was gone. I care that you claim that there are no better cases than the one on me when you have no new information and are just stuck on the fact that I'm afk and therefore avoiding you. What's more, you aren't even pushing me as your scum read.
    Yes this is an OMGUS vote.
    ##Vote: debears

    Am I going to need to pull a BH and shoot my load earl--I mean sift through my own meta to find examples of me being a jackass?
    Btw debears, why in the hell were you unable/unwilling to comment on BH's claim?

    On November 15 2012 06:27 Hopeless1der wrote:
    In response to Z-Bo's case on me:

    - No comment on BH should still hold merit as an attack against debears, especially if used as a contributing factor to my own scumminess.

    Meta read - Earlier you said my meta this game was comparable to LVII. You've 180'd that read. I have no conclusion here, I'm just pointing it out.

    Other points from meta: Me referring back to previous cases. I had an actual case to refer back to, and I was also much more convinced by that case. This game, we have me being inactive, Cross being modkillable the first 24 hours or so, thrawn afk, DP afk, BH trolling. Lots of things that just sucked bag. In LVII, we have Matt claim scum super early and the ensuing discussions were getting excessively redundant until Palmar came in and confirmed Matt was fakeclaiming. Before that, I was trying to focus the thread a little. This game is no where near as out of control as that situation was and also (IRL bullshit that no one cares about)


    Since BH has claimed, I find debears to be incredibly scummy, and Marv made a point of articulating already. I felt he was scummy before from the way he attacked me for lecturing and it being anti-town. I also felt his meta/smurf's are unreadable comments were contradictory and he was twisting words to make a case on me based on very little information. However, I was explicitly told to drop my suspicions because they were a) poorly thought out and b) distracting debears from helping town.

    He hasn't helped town. Hapa's case on debears is spot on (in my heavily biased opinion) and I don't want to lynch anyone else right now.


    His only reason for voting debears is that debears made a read on him and voted him.

    And then there is this:
    Show nested quote +
    On November 15 2012 09:21 Hopeless1der wrote:
    @Marv's case on Z-Boson - Quite frankly, if it saves me, I'll vote Z-boson, otherwise my vote stays parked on debears. I still think Z-Bo is town though, I just happen to know I'm town.

    I don't like this at all. Hopeless clearly states that he views ZB is town, earlier in the game ZB makes a small meta case and hopeless doesn't vote him (rightfully so) - but now he will throw his vote on ZB???
    You don't scum hunt at all, say you view ZB as town but are willing to vote for him, and keep your vote parked on debears all game solely because debears made a read on you and threw his vote your way. This is not town oriented play in my opinion.


    Then there is the day 1 voting. ZB was one of the potential lynch candidates and at a point it seemed he was goign to be the lynch (with 8 votes on his head no less!):
    Note that this is right before the wild swing of votes to Hapa, so had that note happened it was ZB getting lynched.

    + Show Spoiler +
    On November 15 2012 10:55 Dandel Ion wrote:
    votecount:

    DarthPunk (2): thrawn2112, Kickstart
    Z-BosoN (8): Clarity_nl, marvellosity, DarthPunk, Crossfire99, Blazinghand, strongandbig, iamperfection, Hapahauli
    debears (1): Hopeless1der
    Hopeless (2): Z-BosoN, debears


    Currently, Z-BosoN is set to be lynched!

    Full version (disregarded):

    + Show Spoiler +
    debears (2): Z-Boson, strongandbig, Hapahauli, Hopeless1nder, marvellosity, strongandbig
    DarthPunk (7): Hapahauli Hapahauli, Clarity_nl, thrawn2112, Blazinghand, iamperfection, Blazinghand, Blazinghand, Hapahauli, debears, Z-BosoN, Kickstart, debears
    Hopeless1der (0): debears, marvellosity, marvellosity, Z-BosoN, Kickstart, debears, debears
    Z-BosoN (4): Blazinghand, iamperfection, Blazinghand, marvellosity, Clarity_nl, marvellosity, DarthPunk, Crossfire99
    Hapahauli (0): iamperfection, strongandbig. Kickstart, Blazinghand
    Blazinghand (0): iamperfection, Z-BosoN, marvellosity, iamperfection, strongandbig, Crossfire99
    iamperfection (0): Hapahauli, Bloatinghand
    thrawn2112 (0): Hapahauli
    strongandbig (0): DarthPunk, Z-BosoN, Clarity_nl, Hapahauli, DarthPunk
    Clarity_nl (0): DarthPunk
    marvellosity (0): debears
    Crossfire99 (0): marvellosity, debears, Blazinghand


    Not voting (0):



    Looked bad for our pal ZB so this is "dying post":

    + Show Spoiler +
    On November 15 2012 10:55 Z-BosoN wrote:
    LYNCH HAPAHAULI.

    LYNCH BLAZINGHAND. when he is alive day 3.

    marv, hope you learn you are not the fucking god of mafia, and see that meta reads are only worth it if it isn't fucking obvious stylistic proven logical and pre-claimed reasons.


    Turns out he was right (halfway at least but I suspect 100% right ^^). So in summation I've always felt pretty good about ZB and then the D1 lynch just solidified it.

    Regarding DarthPunk
    Basically I agree with and echo the idea that when DP was set to be lynched, he did an extremely good job of showing that he was town. And an interesting note is that like ZB, when DP thought he was the lynch, he names Hapa and BH aswell :

    + Show Spoiler +
    On November 15 2012 10:43 DarthPunk wrote:
    Show nested quote +
    On November 15 2012 10:37 iamperfection wrote:
    On November 15 2012 10:35 DarthPunk wrote:
    On November 15 2012 10:34 iamperfection wrote:
    DP DO NOT RUN AWAY IF YOUR TOWN. Give reads on the people voting on you.


    I just did.

    more


    How about this. I was probably not going to be lynched until two of the best town players I know who are very rarely wrong about scum reads lead the most retarded wagon in the world on me which is wrong.

    So either they are worse than I thought. Can't read me at all or are scum.

    Hapa is not playing the same as GSL he is playing worse. Hi scum game is townie though so be wary of that. But he is not giving the confident and often correct reads taht he usually gives as town.

    He is starting up a stupid fucking wagon that he is usually wary of as town. Hapa is like the fucking divine presence of level headedness usually but this band wagon is not it.

    BH I have never played with before. But he is reading scum into things that should not be read as scummy.
    SO he might just be worse than I thought.

    Marv is actually fucking right although rightly confused but seems townie from genuinely wanting to figure shit out rather than leap onto a retarded wagon.

    Also.

    How much fucking conviction does BH have in his reads when I am so scummy but then he insta votes for a fucking Coin toss.

    BH is scum. Because he doesn't give a fuck about the lynch as long as he lynches a townie.


    So those are my two strong town reads out of the lynch. Again the others I showed as green or did not is only an indication of how I viewed the lynch (some of the people I left unmarked I feel are very likely town for example).

    As for the people I had marked as SCUM:
    Well, Hapa doesn't need much explaining :D (GJ town!).

    Regarding Hopeless1der
    Before the lynch I posted my read of him, and so far it all remains relevant:

    + Show Spoiler +
    On November 15 2012 09:57 Kickstart wrote:
    Regarding Z-Boson
    I am not comfortable with a lynch on ZB. So he is playing differently and posting less, but when I take a look at his filter I see some very lengthy and thought out posts that offer good analysis. I don't think that lynching him due to him posting differently this game is fair, especially when his posts are pretty significant (I said earlier that even though his filter wasn't large, every post contributed something). I take Hapas word that before this game even started he talked with ZB and ZB discussed wanting to change his posting style a bit (though a skype log would be nice!).
    Why lynch someone who has changed their posting style when you could be lynching someone who isn't being pro-town at all:

    Regarding Hopeless1der
    Look at his filter, there is NO attempt to find scum, the only person he gos after is debears, but only after debears went after him. The first half of his filter is talk about people being afk and/or smurfs - this really doesn't help at all. And his post where he reads debears:
    + Show Spoiler +

    On November 14 2012 22:16 Hopeless1der wrote:
    Show nested quote +
    On November 14 2012 14:54 debears wrote:
    For all you who think me being afk is a scumtell, which you guys are retarded if you do

    Let me just say this once. Fuck off debears. Nothing personal, but in all seriousness OMGUS. I'm still your scum read because I've done nothing since you laid into me for 'lecturing town'. If you still want to harp on that chord, you're not being a good little townie. I was afk for longer than you were, and you have nothing new to post in the thread.

    I'll lay this out for you. This is the post I was "lecturing" about:
    Show nested quote +
    On November 13 2012 10:49 DarthPunk wrote:
    On November 13 2012 10:44 marvellosity wrote:
    you can't active lurk in a game that's less than 2 hours old, numbnuts.

    If anyone's 'active lurking' it's me. Put that in your pipe and smoke it.


    Don't shut people down who are obviously trying their best to scum hunt and contribute. You are only going to discourage those things. Or is that what you want?


    I was not lecturing everyone, I was responding to a single post and listing multiple examples of less than stellar reasons to vote for someone.

    I was told to drop it with you so you could focus on the rest of the game instead, because I was distracting you from being useful.
    Show nested quote +
    On November 14 2012 00:17 marvellosity wrote:
    Hopeless, I think you're making too much of that. The bit you bold says "was" - past tense, that was his stance previously (when he'd missed my Crossfire post).

    Like debears said just now there's not a lot to say about Crossfire otherwise, you can't really have a stance on someone who hasn't posted yet.

    The whole issue is overblown and should be dropped. If only because it's a big distraction to debears, who has to keep talking about it, and it's not helping anyone

    And yet I'm still your top scum read and iamperfection is still the only other player you'll really talk about. You haven't commented on anything significant (neither have I yet, but fuck it, you're already voting me)

    I dont give a shit what your IRL issues are, same as you probably dont care why I was gone. I care that you claim that there are no better cases than the one on me when you have no new information and are just stuck on the fact that I'm afk and therefore avoiding you. What's more, you aren't even pushing me as your scum read.
    Yes this is an OMGUS vote.
    ##Vote: debears

    Am I going to need to pull a BH and shoot my load earl--I mean sift through my own meta to find examples of me being a jackass?
    Btw debears, why in the hell were you unable/unwilling to comment on BH's claim?

    On November 15 2012 06:27 Hopeless1der wrote:
    In response to Z-Bo's case on me:

    - No comment on BH should still hold merit as an attack against debears, especially if used as a contributing factor to my own scumminess.

    Meta read - Earlier you said my meta this game was comparable to LVII. You've 180'd that read. I have no conclusion here, I'm just pointing it out.

    Other points from meta: Me referring back to previous cases. I had an actual case to refer back to, and I was also much more convinced by that case. This game, we have me being inactive, Cross being modkillable the first 24 hours or so, thrawn afk, DP afk, BH trolling. Lots of things that just sucked bag. In LVII, we have Matt claim scum super early and the ensuing discussions were getting excessively redundant until Palmar came in and confirmed Matt was fakeclaiming. Before that, I was trying to focus the thread a little. This game is no where near as out of control as that situation was and also (IRL bullshit that no one cares about)


    Since BH has claimed, I find debears to be incredibly scummy, and Marv made a point of articulating already. I felt he was scummy before from the way he attacked me for lecturing and it being anti-town. I also felt his meta/smurf's are unreadable comments were contradictory and he was twisting words to make a case on me based on very little information. However, I was explicitly told to drop my suspicions because they were a) poorly thought out and b) distracting debears from helping town.

    He hasn't helped town. Hapa's case on debears is spot on (in my heavily biased opinion) and I don't want to lynch anyone else right now.


    His only reason for voting debears is that debears made a read on him and voted him.

    And then there is this:
    Show nested quote +
    On November 15 2012 09:21 Hopeless1der wrote:
    @Marv's case on Z-Boson - Quite frankly, if it saves me, I'll vote Z-boson, otherwise my vote stays parked on debears. I still think Z-Bo is town though, I just happen to know I'm town.

    I don't like this at all. Hopeless clearly states that he views ZB is town, earlier in the game ZB makes a small meta case and hopeless doesn't vote him (rightfully so) - but now he will throw his vote on ZB???
    You don't scum hunt at all, say you view ZB as town but are willing to vote for him, and keep your vote parked on debears all game solely because debears made a read on you and threw his vote your way. This is not town oriented play in my opinion.



    I just feel that his anti-town tone has continued on through the lynch and after. As for the lynch itself hopeless NEVER stuck his neck out, he constantly stayed on debears the entire time (not that hapa temporarily switch over to debears apparantlytrying to start a wagon on him?):

    + Show Spoiler +
    On November 15 2012 10:50 Hapahauli wrote:
    ##Unvote

    Yeah marv's right here - DP's being pretty townie going down.

    Show nested quote +
    On November 15 2012 10:46 debears wrote:
    ##Unvote
    ##Vote Hopeless


    Plz for the love of god vote hopeless ppl


    Can we please lynch this guy? Please?

    ##Vote Debears



    The only thing that gives me a bit of reservation is that hopeless could have saved hapa had he switched his vote off of debears and put it on ZB at any time. But then I don't really think anyone was expecting hapa to get lynched.

    Regarding strongandbig
    Just take a look at this guys filter and then couple that with his votes and tell me it isn't suspicious as hell. SnB, like hopeless, never sticks his neck out on any reads and just agrees or disagrees with other peoples points. Couple that with his votes (ignore the hapa vote, it was at the VERY start of the game and it was a complete joke vote; he only votes for debears, blazinghand, and ZB). He was also oddly quiet during the pile onto hapa - while being there to laugh the most and mkae jokes afterwards??

    Some reservations I have about snb is that he has gone after both hapa and hopeless postings (hapa who we know is scum and hopeless who I have the strongest read on at the moment), but scum dissing on scum isn't unheard of. Another reservation is that he has gone after BH hardcore, who I would be just as willing to lunch at this point as snb (though I would still rather go after my top read atm - hopeless).

    Anyways there you have it, hopefully night actions reveal some more stuffs.

What I didn't link in his filter
  • This post + Show Spoiler +
    On November 15 2012 11:20 Kickstart wrote:
    Show nested quote +
    On November 13 2012 16:52 Kickstart wrote:
    Here is why I have doubts about Hapa.
    Hapa starts off by being the first one to cast a "pointless vote" at the start of the day.
    + Show Spoiler +
    On November 13 2012 09:25 Hapahauli wrote:
    Show nested quote +
    On November 13 2012 09:15 Clarity_nl wrote:
    I don't think anyone will be against millers claiming and a lurker lynch policy. If they are they should speak up. Otherwise we really don't need to mention it again.


    Oh hum I need something more controversial then.

    Howabout the lynch DarthPunk policy? I have a hard time reading him and rolls scum 66% of the time when I'm in game with him. Sample size be damned!

    ##Vote DarthPunk


    I see that several people did this and were joking but I don't like it much and Hapa is the first to do it, which is even more interesting because soon after he states that the random vote gambit is far overused ;/ :
    + Show Spoiler +
    On November 13 2012 09:37 Hapahauli wrote:
    @iamp

    The "random vote" gambit has been far overused. I'm not a fan.

    I'd comment on your post, but I'm not even sure what you're talking about there.


    He then unvotes DP just to revote him:
    + Show Spoiler +
    On November 13 2012 10:22 Hapahauli wrote:
    Show nested quote +
    On November 13 2012 10:15 DarthPunk wrote:
    On November 13 2012 10:01 strongandbig wrote:
    if zb was scum he would have made a much longer post

    ##vote: hapahauli

    im down with that iamperfection thinkamajig


    So retarded.
    ##Vote: Strongandbig


    You're voting him 'cause the post is retarded? And not because it's scummy?

    The last time you pulled that, you were scum (Mafia LVII).

    ##Vote DarthPunk

    ('fo real this time)

    Which he unvotes again -_-

    And there is the whole SnB bandwagon that he jumps on:
    + Show Spoiler +
    On November 13 2012 10:54 Hapahauli wrote:
    Show nested quote +
    On November 13 2012 10:50 debears wrote:
    Does S&B normally act like this?

    Just curious :D

    Feel free to answer that S&B


    Well it's weird for sure. I'm used to seeing scum SnB be a lot more "wordy" when he posts. Atleast this was the case in Mafia LVII and Death Note Mini. Howwwwwweva, this post really sets off my scum alarms:

    Show nested quote +
    On November 13 2012 10:48 strongandbig wrote:
    On November 13 2012 10:01 debears wrote:
    On November 13 2012 09:59 Hapahauli wrote:
    On November 13 2012 09:50 DarthPunk wrote:
    On November 13 2012 09:47 Hapahauli wrote:
    On November 13 2012 09:44 DarthPunk wrote:
    On November 13 2012 09:41 Z-BosoN wrote:
    Hello, sirs.
    First of all I´d like to claim miller.
    There are two very viable options now, regarding my alignment on this game.

    I am fakeclaiming as mafia.
    I am in fact a miller.

    My claim here would be fairly risky as scum, and as town it makes more sense to claim so as to not waste detective checks on me, but of course this is WIFOM. I hope to show my alignment in this game through brilliant, stellar townie play, and hope town uses this factor and this factor alone when scouting my alignment.
    The only thing I hope to achieve with this claim is to not be checked by an eventual cop, as that check will be guaranteed to turn red.

    That being said, I look forward to playing this game. Lot's of familiar faces around, and I am curious to hear more from people I haven't played yet.

    Regarding DarthPunk, don't worry, if he's scum, I'll figure it out


    HI ZB <3.

    Yeah ZB will figure me out If I am scum, and Vice Versa. Hapa will figure marv out and marv will figure everyone out.

    GG scummers


    But what if me, ZB, and marv are all scum o_O




    Then Blazinghand, Debears and I will rip you all a new arsehole. <3


    Oh noes! Well fortunately I'm not scum.

    + Show Spoiler +
    I think.+ Show Spoiler +
    *Bowzer laugh*+ Show Spoiler +
    jk I'm town


    On November 13 2012 09:55 iamperfection wrote:
    On November 13 2012 09:52 Hapahauli wrote:
    On November 13 2012 09:45 iamperfection wrote:
    i guess theirs no reason not to believe zbos right? has to be to risky to do if he was scum right.


    Woah woah hold-up. I'm not liking how you're trusting this claim right away.

    Claiming miller is a pretty much a riskless play here. We don't know how many millers are in the setup, and as far as I'm concerned, the claim is null until Z-Bo proves otherwise.

    its what i think so whatever. Zbos scum is gone put himself out there like that i dont think so.


    It's not "so whatever" - I'm pretty skeptical how you're so willing to think Z-Bo is town off what looks to me like a completely null action.


    Hapa, last time you did that little spoiler trick (GsL III), you were the role that you put in the spoiler.

    Here, you put bowser. Now why would you put bowser out of all the scum roles? It seems to me like you were actively thinking of bowser, which you shouldn't be if you are town. I would expect you to put a town role in that spoiler


    this is stupid


    He calls debears argument/suspicion on me stupid, when he himself has his vote on me. It's not consistent at all with his suspicions so far, and I can't wrap my head around a townie thought process here.

    ## Vote StrongandBig

    At least he stays away from voting based on the VT claim post but he starts out by inferring that if SnB were scum he would be posting differently and then votes him anyways based on the "this is stupid" comment (which to be fair to SnB I agree with him, the whole point about putting your role in a spoiler is silly).


    Show nested quote +
    On November 14 2012 11:47 Kickstart wrote:
    Wowzers that was a lot to catch up on, I really tried to post before heading off to school but there was way too much to read and process. I was 100% down with lynching BH... and then he claims jk. I still don't like his posting before or after the claim and think that the claim did no one other than himself any good. I would love to flip him just to see, because the way I see it, at worst he is scum trying to save himself (but as stated before that would be REALLY reckless) and at best he is now deadweight.

    For me the best thing I feel I have to go off of is looking at peoples votes and trying to pick out the scumvotes, and I still think the SnB bandwagon had some scum attached to it (who were basically forced to switch their votes after it being called out for what it was). Top scum read for me is still Hapa. I think he hopped on the SnB wagon, then tried to start an iamp one (with BH, so that is part of the reason I was 100% down for lynching BH and if he flipped red I would have insta voted Hapa - but then BH claimed so....), and now he is voting for debears with everyone else.

    I suppose it is time to put my vote where my mouth is, but I would like to hear other peoples thoughts on Hapa. If most others are getting scum read on him (which some people have already posted that they are) I would like to hear why, likewise if someone thinks hes town I want to hear why.

    ##Vote: Hapahauli

    and @Hapa
    No hard feelings, you have been very kind to me in your posts which I do appreciate but I can't let that influence my reads.


    So were my points at the time valid? I'm not sure what to think of this because it seems that I had it right but at the time got no support. Did I not provide enough analysis/reasoning? Was it just unconvincing? ;/
    where it looks like he wants to get town cred for having been suspicious of Hapa from the beginning. I really didn't like this post but I've made this king of mistake when I was Cop in my first game.
  • I also don't like this post + Show Spoiler +
    On November 18 2012 12:58 Kickstart wrote:
    Man shit I'm sorry I slept right through the lynch, but I wouldn't of changed my vote off of SnB anyways. I've stated all along that my strongest town read was on ZB so I was not going to vote for him this early on - seems I was right :S. Going forward I think the order of our lynches should be:

    1st or 2nd: SNB and DJO (SnB first, still the person I find scummiest)
    3rd: Clarity (though I don't have a strong scum read on him, I haven't read him as town all game and all the other players I feel are more town than him).
    4th: BH (because if we get rid of those 3 and no new developments are made, it is time to get rid of BH finally for his shenanigans).
    because it looks like he is setting-up the lynches for the next few days regardless of what is going to happen. I don't like this at all because I still do not understand why I'm on this list and he didn't comment yet S&B play during D2 which was quite different from D1.


The points against him are not strong and I hope that he can provide good explanations for them. I think that he got lazy during D2 and this is something I can understand given the flips so far.

My conclusion is that he is a first time player, which I'm leaning town on, and that it could be quite difficult for him to keep up with all what happens in this very active game but I hope than he can provide good play as he did during D1 and I would be satisfied with that.
Djodref
Profile Joined September 2012
France3332 Posts
November 18 2012 08:59 GMT
#2669
@ debears

I disagree, it could be a good strategy for a possible SK to retain his night kills until we manage to find the last scum.
What does make you think that a possible SK would kill tonight ?
Djodref
Profile Joined September 2012
France3332 Posts
November 18 2012 09:02 GMT
#2670
By the way debears, I had questions for you that you didn't answer. I would appreciate you to find them back in my filter and to give me your answers. Thanks !
Djodref
Profile Joined September 2012
France3332 Posts
November 18 2012 09:40 GMT
#2681
@ debears

Shit, I have just missed you. Anyway, it was a long time ago but I still want have some details about what happened in your head during the exchange between S&B and BH at D2. Especially I want to know why you posted this.

On November 17 2012 14:08 Djodref wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 17 2012 09:36 debears wrote:
Can we double lynch BH and SnB????


@ debears

Can you explain me this post and your latest vote and unvote against BH in details ?
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