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Clarity_nl
Profile Joined November 2011
Netherlands6826 Posts
November 13 2012 08:15 GMT
#404
I do not.
FIGHT THE GOOD FIGHT AGAINST STUPIDITY CLARITY, I BELIEVE IN YOU! - Palmar
Clarity_nl
Profile Joined November 2011
Netherlands6826 Posts
November 13 2012 08:25 GMT
#406
I understand your reasoning much better now, thanks.
As for his meta, it seems he doesn't play like he's been playing this game as either alignment. Here's his Town play.

##unvote
FIGHT THE GOOD FIGHT AGAINST STUPIDITY CLARITY, I BELIEVE IN YOU! - Palmar
Clarity_nl
Profile Joined November 2011
Netherlands6826 Posts
November 13 2012 08:26 GMT
#407
ebwop His play this game is still anti-town, regardless of alignment. I hope you realize this SnB and shape up.
FIGHT THE GOOD FIGHT AGAINST STUPIDITY CLARITY, I BELIEVE IN YOU! - Palmar
Clarity_nl
Profile Joined November 2011
Netherlands6826 Posts
November 13 2012 08:42 GMT
#408
Hapa, this still bothers me.
I asked you what you thought about SnB's claim and if you thought it was bad for town, and you answered:
On November 13 2012 10:12 Hapahauli wrote:
@ Clarity

Well in a theoretical sense yes, but you remember how well that worked with Cheesecake in Newbie XXX right? It's really not that significant IMO.


You compared this to Cheese's claim from NMM XXX even though the situations are completely different.
The only reason Cheese claimed was because he thought only VT's knew the VT flavor. So he was trying to claim without alerting scum. SnB just outright claimed VT.

After I explain why it's different, you basically give me the same answer:
On November 13 2012 10:25 Hapahauli wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 13 2012 10:14 Clarity_nl wrote:
It's not like he flavor claimed, thinking others didn't know the flavor. How are those situations alike?
You don't think it's a weird move for a VT to claim VT day 1?


No I don't find it weird. I think it's just a pointless comment that can be made by either alignment. Again, see Mr. Cheesecake's "odd" VT claim time in the Newbie game.

Him trusting Z-Bo's claim so up-front is a bit strange, but again, I don't know if it's just bad logic or scum knowing who's who.

I haven't seen anything alignment indicative from him yet.


The other thing I don't really like is the use of "theoretically yes" and "IMO"
Whenever I've seen you post you tend to be direct and with conviction, but not this time.
FIGHT THE GOOD FIGHT AGAINST STUPIDITY CLARITY, I BELIEVE IN YOU! - Palmar
Clarity_nl
Profile Joined November 2011
Netherlands6826 Posts
November 13 2012 14:10 GMT
#426
Marv if you're still around, who would you lynch if you had to pick someone right now?
FIGHT THE GOOD FIGHT AGAINST STUPIDITY CLARITY, I BELIEVE IN YOU! - Palmar
Clarity_nl
Profile Joined November 2011
Netherlands6826 Posts
November 13 2012 14:19 GMT
#428
Thrawn made a brief appearance though. So crossfire? Does that mean no strong reads yet that surpass a coinflip?
Who are you most interested to hear from right now, to clear or strengthen suspicions?
FIGHT THE GOOD FIGHT AGAINST STUPIDITY CLARITY, I BELIEVE IN YOU! - Palmar
Clarity_nl
Profile Joined November 2011
Netherlands6826 Posts
November 13 2012 14:33 GMT
#430
I'll be back in my evening, ~3 hours from now. Debears I'd still like your thoughts on marv when you are back, thanks.
FIGHT THE GOOD FIGHT AGAINST STUPIDITY CLARITY, I BELIEVE IN YOU! - Palmar
Clarity_nl
Profile Joined November 2011
Netherlands6826 Posts
November 13 2012 16:45 GMT
#498
Blazing for the love of god use spellcheck or autocorrect or something and please stop posting one liners and address the case made against you.

Hi guys, I'm back.

Marv I'm not suspicious of you, I was just curious about debears' response. I phrased the question in a way that would make him seem inconsistent if he found you town, but he found you town anyway. Gives me a town read on debears. Scum hate to be inconsistent.
FIGHT THE GOOD FIGHT AGAINST STUPIDITY CLARITY, I BELIEVE IN YOU! - Palmar
Clarity_nl
Profile Joined November 2011
Netherlands6826 Posts
November 13 2012 16:54 GMT
#506
On November 14 2012 01:51 marvellosity wrote:
Guys, guys!!!

I think I may have an awesome quiz for you a little later in the evening. It may even be as good as my Palmar quiz in Rock Band.


I'll bite..... what?
FIGHT THE GOOD FIGHT AGAINST STUPIDITY CLARITY, I BELIEVE IN YOU! - Palmar
Clarity_nl
Profile Joined November 2011
Netherlands6826 Posts
November 13 2012 17:42 GMT
#521
On November 14 2012 02:41 iamperfection wrote:
I changed my mind deal with it bro. When I get home I might do it again. does that make me scum? If so continue if not don't waste my time


What made you change your mind?
FIGHT THE GOOD FIGHT AGAINST STUPIDITY CLARITY, I BELIEVE IN YOU! - Palmar
Clarity_nl
Profile Joined November 2011
Netherlands6826 Posts
November 13 2012 19:14 GMT
#572
On November 14 2012 03:52 strongandbig wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 14 2012 03:27 debears wrote:
.......

Ok reasoning to switch from insta town read to scum read....

When I get back to my comp I will relook at it. I didnt come to the same conclusion


but look at the reasoning for his town read, it was also terrible. it was a visceral (no eyes) reaction, the first thing to come out of his gut, just like "oh i guess zboson is town" was the first thing to come out of my gut when he posted it.

So he changes from a weak, gut-reaction-based townread to a scum read. It's not like he was hard defending zboson or even really thinking about it in a way that we should be super concerned about, he was just pooping ideas out onto the thread.


I have to agree with this. People might be misrepresenting iamp's initial post about zbo's miller claim. In the same post he even mentions the possibility of him being scum, but it would be a risky play for him. He gets corrected on this, since we don't know the setup, and he doesn't disagree.
FIGHT THE GOOD FIGHT AGAINST STUPIDITY CLARITY, I BELIEVE IN YOU! - Palmar
Clarity_nl
Profile Joined November 2011
Netherlands6826 Posts
November 13 2012 19:17 GMT
#574
Darthpunk... maybe. Best I've got, working on a case right now but not liking how it's turning out.
FIGHT THE GOOD FIGHT AGAINST STUPIDITY CLARITY, I BELIEVE IN YOU! - Palmar
Clarity_nl
Profile Joined November 2011
Netherlands6826 Posts
November 13 2012 20:00 GMT
#580
On November 14 2012 04:17 Clarity_nl wrote:
Darthpunk... maybe. Best I've got, working on a case right now but not liking how it's turning out.


Yeah.... making a case on Darth isn't working, which I think in itself says a lot.

If you guys somehow haven't noticed. Take a look at Darth's filter.
It's basically a bunch of one-liners, jokes, the occasional null read on others. It doesn't actually help town.

The only things that stand out in his filter are him voting for SnB with the comment "so retarded" (which apparantly is a null tell, judging by his previous games, he throws the word around a lot)
After I jump on the SnB wagon, he votes for me without explaining. Later on he quotes his own post of him voting for me and explains why, after I explain my reasoning he quickly unvotes me and hops back on SnB.

On November 13 2012 15:56 DarthPunk wrote:
I am just throwing my vote around trying to see what's up. I think I explained both my votes on him adequately maybe you disagree with the reasons and that is fine.

The reason I unvoted S&B the first time was that I voted for Clarity for what I perceived to be an easy jump onto an easy wagon. He gave his explanation, I unvoted and then I re-voted S&B.

I cannot find the townie reasoning behind several things S&B has posted thus far. I cannot reconcile using WIFOM about his scum game as townie behaviour and I do not buy the too scummy to be scum shit.

I am far from certain about him. But if he is town I want him to shape up. I don;t like using FoS's anymore so a vote it is.

@blazinghand. Guess I am bad.


He then claims he's just "throwing his vote around", but he doesn't ask questions or make comments about me or SnB.

On November 13 2012 16:50 DarthPunk wrote:
Eh. I wouldn;t say I had a particularly strong read on S&B.

##Unvote


Then why vote for him? Because if it was to pressure, why wouldn't he actually explain why he's voted this way or ask questions?
You either vote to lynch or you vote to pressure. But Darth's vote was.... neither?

##Vote DarthPunk
FIGHT THE GOOD FIGHT AGAINST STUPIDITY CLARITY, I BELIEVE IN YOU! - Palmar
Clarity_nl
Profile Joined November 2011
Netherlands6826 Posts
November 13 2012 20:31 GMT
#593
Anyone willing to give their read on DarthPunk while everyone anxiously awaits Blazinghand's defense and case?
FIGHT THE GOOD FIGHT AGAINST STUPIDITY CLARITY, I BELIEVE IN YOU! - Palmar
Clarity_nl
Profile Joined November 2011
Netherlands6826 Posts
November 13 2012 20:45 GMT
#596
@ Marv

If he's not scum in your eyes, that means he's terrible town, or do you disagree?
FIGHT THE GOOD FIGHT AGAINST STUPIDITY CLARITY, I BELIEVE IN YOU! - Palmar
Clarity_nl
Profile Joined November 2011
Netherlands6826 Posts
November 13 2012 20:48 GMT
#599
Do you guys have some sort of meta read that I do not?
The description "has a 3 page filter but nothing that I can make a read off of" doesn't seem very townie to me.
FIGHT THE GOOD FIGHT AGAINST STUPIDITY CLARITY, I BELIEVE IN YOU! - Palmar
Clarity_nl
Profile Joined November 2011
Netherlands6826 Posts
November 13 2012 20:50 GMT
#601
Still on Darth. Stay on target!
FIGHT THE GOOD FIGHT AGAINST STUPIDITY CLARITY, I BELIEVE IN YOU! - Palmar
Clarity_nl
Profile Joined November 2011
Netherlands6826 Posts
November 13 2012 20:58 GMT
#605
That does explain some of it. But I'd still like to think that a townie would simply post less but share his thoughts when he has the time.
Rather odd to be cracking jokes and saying you have null reads when you don't have the time to post, unless you're trying to seem active.
FIGHT THE GOOD FIGHT AGAINST STUPIDITY CLARITY, I BELIEVE IN YOU! - Palmar
Clarity_nl
Profile Joined November 2011
Netherlands6826 Posts
November 13 2012 21:04 GMT
#611
@ Blazing

Well I'm working under the assumption that it's a time issue, being in two active mafia games.
Cracking jokes is something you do on the side. You play mafia to play mafia, socializing is nice but it's not why I play mafia at least, guess I can't speak for others.
If all you're doing is cracking jokes then that's anti-town, you don't agree? If you're going to be around to post 3 pages of filter without content, why not post 1 page of content instead, if you're town.

FIGHT THE GOOD FIGHT AGAINST STUPIDITY CLARITY, I BELIEVE IN YOU! - Palmar
Clarity_nl
Profile Joined November 2011
Netherlands6826 Posts
November 13 2012 21:46 GMT
#622
On November 14 2012 06:16 Blazinghand wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 14 2012 01:03 Z-BosoN wrote:
It seems to me people are thinking too much of my posts, expecting some sort of brilliant day one cases. Disagreeing with my logic does not make me scum.
That should pretty much handle the vast chunk of shit I got the last few pages.

There are, however, some things I'd like to point out during these last events, though:

First thing to note is how uncharacteristically bad BH's case is against me. He's basically saying I'm bullshitting with every post I make. While I agree my posts are not the bestest they can be, I'm not sure why that implies I'm scum.

He says this one thing in particular though:

ZB is setting up to look good as a wagon starter (since scum don't like to stick their necks out) and appear to contribute to town, but if you read his astonishingly short filter, it's clear he's not actually helping. He's flinging shit at the wall and hoping it sticks.


Note two things.
1) He's saying I'm setting up to look good as a wagon starter.
This is balls-to-the wall dumb. How am I a wagon starter just for having the first vote? Also, as he himself noted, I did not write a full essay regarding why I think SnB is scum. I voted for him for implying that he is town, and that's basically it. If I wanted to become a "wagon starter", that's obviously the exact opposite of what I should do, I would make a much more elaborate case.
Ironically, I could say the same about BH and his case on me, and with much more validity, as he actually goes deep in his case on me, and seems somehow certain of my alignment, something which he leaves very clear later on:
...I actually want to lynch ZB, and ZB is actually scum....

Now, I'm not scum, so in my pov he is pretty much full of shit with this remark. There's a difference between bad logic, the thing he is calling me on bullshitting, and actual bullshitting, which is what this "wagon starting" remark actually is.



You were starting a weak wagon. This is the easiest way to start a wagon as scum. You wanted to take a position that LOOKED good, which is started a wagon, without the commitment and risk that comes with it. Something you could back off of or move away from easily-- and look how you did. It was a vote with a ghost of a case rather than a real one. And you backtracked it quite well, but the point stands.


Show nested quote +
On November 14 2012 01:03 Z-BosoN wrote:
2) He's saying my filter is short, and it's clear I'm not helping.
Again, completely ironic and hypocritical.
He has only three completely useless posts up until this one:

On November 13 2012 15:38 Blazinghand wrote:
On November 13 2012 11:52 DarthPunk wrote:
On November 13 2012 11:47 Kickstart wrote:
On November 13 2012 11:44 DarthPunk wrote:
On November 13 2012 11:42 marvellosity wrote:
On November 13 2012 11:40 DarthPunk wrote:
On November 13 2012 11:37 iamperfection wrote:
Whats everybody think of bh he is like a very good player when he is town from what i saw and here he really hasent done anything despite being here tell me what you guys think.


Give him a chance. He is one of those guys I would 100% never lynch day one because the benefits of him being town vastly out weigh the risks of him being scum.

From what I have heard around the grapevine however he is fairly easy to read as scum so we should be fine to take a look at him later on in the game.


you kidding? I'd lynch him day 1 in a heartbeat if I thought he was scum.


Well. That is fine. But I am not going to lynch him day one when he is a very good town player and the only case against him so far is that he is lurking.


The night (or day in terms of our game i guess!) is young, I wouldn't call anyone a lurker just yet. But I agree with marv that people who give off scum vibes should get the vote and find it odd that you are basically stating that you wouldn't vote for him no matter what ;o.


Yep. I would not. I would not vote day one for Hapa or marv either. Unless there was something super obvious I would not vote for them. But I do not think that would happen because they are all good players and that is why I respect them I suppose.



Honestly I think it's bad to tie yourself down with ideas like that. If someone's playing scummy, they're playing scummy. My scum play isn't amazing, but due to my extreme sex appeal and enormous intelligence and penis, I can assure you that it's improved a great deal. Mostly it's due to my large penis-- it is quite a monstrosity. It works as a pad, even.

Back on topic, don't feel like you can't vote or push people because of possible contributions. This kind of play is lazy and puts preconceived notions of what certain players are worth ahead of behavioral analysis. Someone voting for me because they legitimately think I'm scum and they have the cojones to do it is infinitely more helpful to town than someone not voting me because I'm a sexy baller.

That being said, iamperfection's vote is pretty typical iamperfection throwing his vote around trying to pressure people but not doing it effectively. He needs to realize that you should vote people when you want to lynch them, or else you won't be taken seriously.


The second paragraph is completely fluffy, he's not actually saying anything.

That being said, I would like everyone to pay attention to the bolded on the third paragraph. He heavily, heavily thrashes me for being weak on my vote on SnB. Let's ignore all the others, especially DP (who voted TWICE on SnB, without saying anything). Let's focus on what he says here on iamp - and this is important. He says that iamp is throwing his vote around to pressure people, and that's all A-ok.


Yeah it was based on iamp being generally a bad player but there's also a difference between starting a wagon with no case and jumping on one with no case. In retrospect iamp was not immune to blame, but saying something like "he didn't attack iamperfection hard enough" or "one paragraph in this post was a bit fluffy" (1)when in fact it was not, i'm trying to help the players in this game play well) isn't a legitimate critique of my posting.

Show nested quote +
On November 14 2012 01:03 Z-BosoN wrote:
Now pause and think here. I'll quote what he said about that on me for clarity:

....S&B's "accidental" "vt claim" (both of those are in question) could be suspicious. But Z-B doesn't explain why. He doesn't set up a scum motive. He just slaps down a vote and bails. This is a chance to look like a townie wagon-started without doing analysis or writing the kind of long posts that could reveal his own scum motives. When Hapa rightly calls him on it .....


and

....A town player would lay out his own thought process right away so that others understand what he's thinking. He'd respond to s&B and push the wagon, not just slap down a vote and a bad explanation.....


Now contrast that to what he said about iamp's voting. On iamp, he is completely casual regarding his voting. On his case on me, however, he's aggressive and incisive , as you can clearly tell from the quotes I posted above.

Why does this make him scummy? Because it shows clear signs of fabrication, as one can easily infer from the quotes above. His views on "casual voting" are in complete contrast.

One more thing, that I ignored earlier. If he feels so strongly about me voting SnB without giving any reasoning or thoughts, why isn't he going after DP, who's actually done that not once, but TWICE??
Townie Motivation: none.
Scum motivation: he feels threatened that I have claimed miller and people are not showing signs of doubt on my claim.


2)You've made a good case for why DP and iamperfection are also scummy, but nothing here about why you're not. In retrospect, I shouldn't have implicitly rule out the possibility of you AND iamperfection being scum together.

Show nested quote +
On November 14 2012 01:03 Z-BosoN wrote:


tl;dr
1) Blazinghand's case on me is uncharacteristically bad. It's also not consistent with his townie play on Liquid City. Look at his progression on Shiaopi, who was incidentally also making uncharacteristically bad cases as well.
2) Blazinghand is being supremely inconsistent, contradictory and hypocritical of what he defines as scum-motivated and what not, showing signs of someone who is merely fabricating cases, as detailed above.

I tried to be as clear as possible here, because I don't want people to feel like this is just OMGUS.

My votes on SnB and debears were more pressure votes, as if that wasn't pretty much clear.
This one on blazinghand, is not. I think he's the best lynch so far, as everything I've stated seem to point on him being scum.

##Unvote
##Vote Blazinghand


And, I think it's scummy here that
A) you've backed away from your SnB vote and claimed it was just pressure when the wagon began to fall apart, just like you set up for when you voted
B) this is basically a straight-up OMGUS

I had moved my vote over to iamperfection, and he seems scummy but I really can't ignore a shit OMGUS of this magnitude. Rereading I've realized it was a mistake to ever unvote you. 3)And I am not threatened by your claim because a miller claim is meaningless-- it's a null tell. It's never factored into my case or my analysis of you, but you sure seem insecure about it.

##unvote
##vote ZB


1) I don't think anyone in this game would describe your play as "trying to help others to play well"
2) You haven't defended yourself either.
3) Were you supposed to feel threatened? Why even mention this?

Clearly I'm not seeing what you're seeing because Zbo looks town to me. He hasn't posted much but his posts have been informative and give me an idea of what he's thinking at that time.
FIGHT THE GOOD FIGHT AGAINST STUPIDITY CLARITY, I BELIEVE IN YOU! - Palmar
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