EPTMario Mini Mafia - Page 29
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debears
United States2516 Posts
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36156 Posts
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debears
United States2516 Posts
Ok reasoning to switch from insta town read to scum read.... When I get back to my comp I will relook at it. I didnt come to the same conclusion | ||
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strongandbig
United States4858 Posts
On November 14 2012 02:41 iamperfection wrote: I changed my mind deal with it bro. When I get home I might do it again. does that make me scum? If so continue if not don't waste my time iamperfection is lazy as fuck, he's like mattchew in being both terrible and lazy but at the moment hapa's case is super unpersuasive to me | ||
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strongandbig
United States4858 Posts
On November 14 2012 03:04 Blazinghand wrote: this kind of hostage-taking isnt cool dude. if you don't call me a cool dude I'll eat your hat | ||
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strongandbig
United States4858 Posts
On November 14 2012 03:27 debears wrote: ....... Ok reasoning to switch from insta town read to scum read.... When I get back to my comp I will relook at it. I didnt come to the same conclusion but look at the reasoning for his town read, it was also terrible. it was a visceral (no eyes) reaction, the first thing to come out of his gut, just like "oh i guess zboson is town" was the first thing to come out of my gut when he posted it. So he changes from a weak, gut-reaction-based townread to a scum read. It's not like he was hard defending zboson or even really thinking about it in a way that we should be super concerned about, he was just pooping ideas out onto the thread. | ||
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strongandbig
United States4858 Posts
On November 14 2012 01:01 Blazinghand wrote: Marv uf you think Im scum vote me if nog stop beig a babu and vot ZB oh yeah I meant to quote this post that's some great logic right there - vote for me or vote with me. normally i'd find that super scummy but coming from bh it's only mildly scummy | ||
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strongandbig
United States4858 Posts
On November 13 2012 15:38 Blazinghand wrote: Honestly I think it's bad to tie yourself down with ideas like that. If someone's playing scummy, they're playing scummy. My scum play isn't amazing, but due to my extreme sex appeal and enormous intelligence and penis, I can assure you that it's improved a great deal. Mostly it's due to my large penis-- it is quite a monstrosity. It works as a pad, even. Back on topic, don't feel like you can't vote or push people because of possible contributions. This kind of play is lazy and puts preconceived notions of what certain players are worth ahead of behavioral analysis. Someone voting for me because they legitimately think I'm scum and they have the cojones to do it is infinitely more helpful to town than someone not voting me because I'm a sexy baller. That being said, iamperfection's vote is pretty typical iamperfection throwing his vote around trying to pressure people but not doing it effectively. He needs to realize that you should vote people when you want to lynch them, or else you won't be taken seriously. the grammar and sentence construction of this post feel too composed to me given its content. somebody remind me who am I voting for right now? | ||
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strongandbig
United States4858 Posts
On November 14 2012 02:31 Hapahauli wrote: Catching up on my lunch break. Regarding SnB ##Unvote After sleeping on it, I'm starting to agree that his play is too far of a deviation from his normal scum play to be scummy. I don't know what he's thinking, but it's much more reckless of a playstyle than I'd expect of scum SnB. (FWIW, the fact that he's continuing this behavior into today makes me think he's an SK or something. It falls into that "townie but really off" type of play that's common with 3rd party roles.) I still believe both situations to be the same - they are both strangely timed VT claims. Cheese's intent to "signal" other townies isn't a significant difference, as both potentially fall into the category of "scum wanting to look less suspicious despite not being suspicious." The situations are not identical by any means, but they're more similar than not. Regardless, I'm not suspicious of SnB anymore so I don't want to dwell on this. Regarding the Z-Boson Case I really disagree with it. The case is a giant anecdote for how Z-Boson's actions could be scummy rather than why they're scummy. All of this isn't valid at all hours into D1. All of the stuff described above is completely non-alignment indicative in the early game. Z-Boson has been less active than I'm used to seeing him, but again early D1 caveats. No reason to vote him. Regarding iamperfection His sudden flip-flop on Z-Boson is really strange. He goes from strongly trusting Z-Bo's claim early in the game to a vote for really shitty reasons. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=381440¤tpage=22#434 In his vote post, he first picks a fight with BH - odd considering that he's ultimately going to agree with his read. He puts a lot of stock into one of Z-Bo's early D1 postings and early-game banter (meaningless). He then talks about the "iamperfection rule" and another early D1 wishy-washy post. I wouldn't mind this if it weren't for his discussion about the miller claim: WHAT?!?!? Iamperfection had almost no doubt about Z-Bo's motives, and he's willing to do a complete 180 with the above reasoning. Just take a look at his previous stance, made right after Z-Bo's claim: He immediately trusted Z-Boson without question the second Z-Bo made that claim. Then all of a sudden now he turns around and can doubt the claim he so strongly believed in earlier. It makes no sense to me, and it looks like scum jumping on someone the second they have the reason to. This would be fine if he had a good case, but he just hinges on a couple of early D1 posts and the "iamperfection" rule as opposed to anything substantial. It doesn't help that the rest of his filter reads really artificially confrontational to me. It feels like he's trying to overcompensate for being caught in GSL III for not showing his "bravado" throughout the game. ##Vote iamperfection this is much more like what i expect out of hapahauli, i guess it just took a little while for him to get into character. that said his case is pretty bad for reasons i explained above | ||
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strongandbig
United States4858 Posts
On November 14 2012 01:03 Z-BosoN wrote: It seems to me people are thinking too much of my posts, expecting some sort of brilliant day one cases. Disagreeing with my logic does not make me scum. That should pretty much handle the vast chunk of shit I got the last few pages. There are, however, some things I'd like to point out during these last events, though: First thing to note is how uncharacteristically bad BH's case is against me. He's basically saying I'm bullshitting with every post I make. While I agree my posts are not the bestest they can be, I'm not sure why that implies I'm scum. He says this one thing in particular though: Note two things. 1) He's saying I'm setting up to look good as a wagon starter. you're misinterpreting it, i think he's saying you're setting up to start a wagon without looking bad later because you started a wagon on a townie. This is balls-to-the wall dumb. How am I a wagon starter just for having the first vote? Also, as he himself noted, I did not write a full essay regarding why I think SnB is scum. I voted for him for implying that he is town, and that's basically it. If I wanted to become a "wagon starter", that's obviously the exact opposite of what I should do, I would make a much more elaborate case. Ironically, I could say the same about BH and his case on me, and with much more validity, as he actually goes deep in his case on me, and seems somehow certain of my alignment, something which he leaves very clear later on: Now, I'm not scum, so in my pov he is pretty much full of shit with this remark. There's a difference between bad logic, the thing he is calling me on bullshitting, and actual bullshitting, which is what this "wagon starting" remark actually is. 2) He's saying my filter is short, and it's clear I'm not helping. Again, completely ironic and hypocritical. this is true. not sure being hypocritical is a scum tell coming from bh. probably is but only a small one? He has only three completely useless posts up until this one: The second paragraph is completely fluffy, he's not actually saying anything. agree That being said, I would like everyone to pay attention to the bolded on the third paragraph. He heavily, heavily thrashes me for being weak on my vote on SnB. Let's ignore all the others, especially DP (who voted TWICE on SnB, without saying anything). Let's focus on what he says here on iamp - and this is important. He says that iamp is throwing his vote around to pressure people, and that's all A-ok. so this is true but you and iamp have a very different character as players Now pause and think here. I'll quote what he said about that on me for clarity: and Now contrast that to what he said about iamp's voting. On iamp, he is completely casual regarding his voting. On his case on me, however, he's aggressive and incisive , as you can clearly tell from the quotes I posted above. Why does this make him scummy? Because it shows clear signs of fabrication, as one can easily infer from the quotes above. His views on "casual voting" are in complete contrast. One more thing, that I ignored earlier. If he feels so strongly about me voting SnB without giving any reasoning or thoughts, why isn't he going after DP, who's actually done that not once, but TWICE?? Townie Motivation: none. Scum motivation: he feels threatened that I have claimed miller and people are not showing signs of doubt on my claim. tl;dr 1) Blazinghand's case on me is uncharacteristically bad. i haven't decided whether I agree with this or not. It's also not consistent with his townie play on Liquid City. Look at his progression on Shiaopi, who was incidentally also making uncharacteristically bad cases as well. 2) Blazinghand is being supremely inconsistent, contradictory and hypocritical of what he defines as scum-motivated and what not, showing signs of someone who is merely fabricating cases, as detailed above. I tried to be as clear as possible here, because I don't want people to feel like this is just OMGUS. My votes on SnB and debears were more pressure votes, as if that wasn't pretty much clear. This one on blazinghand, is not. I think he's the best lynch so far, as everything I've stated seem to point on him being scum. ##Unvote ##Vote Blazinghand idk overall i feel kind of suspicious of bh right now, but it isn't because he's being 'hypocritical', it's just because his play this game has a different feel to it than last time - like, last time he was making a bajillion cases and yelling at everyone and it was pretty obvy he was town. that said, i was scum last time and knew he was town, so maybe it felt different to me. | ||
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debears
United States2516 Posts
On November 14 2012 03:52 strongandbig wrote: but look at the reasoning for his town read, it was also terrible. it was a visceral (no eyes) reaction, the first thing to come out of his gut, just like "oh i guess zboson is town" was the first thing to come out of my gut when he posted it. So he changes from a weak, gut-reaction-based townread to a scum read. It's not like he was hard defending zboson or even really thinking about it in a way that we should be super concerned about, he was just pooping ideas out onto the thread. So, if his reasoning for the original town read was bad, then why did he state it if he is town? You don't just say, 'oh, this guy is town, but I have bad reasoning for it' if you're town. So, he must've thought his reasoning was good outright state it....gimme a sec to organize a whole post on his vote | ||
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Clarity_nl
Netherlands6826 Posts
On November 14 2012 03:52 strongandbig wrote: but look at the reasoning for his town read, it was also terrible. it was a visceral (no eyes) reaction, the first thing to come out of his gut, just like "oh i guess zboson is town" was the first thing to come out of my gut when he posted it. So he changes from a weak, gut-reaction-based townread to a scum read. It's not like he was hard defending zboson or even really thinking about it in a way that we should be super concerned about, he was just pooping ideas out onto the thread. I have to agree with this. People might be misrepresenting iamp's initial post about zbo's miller claim. In the same post he even mentions the possibility of him being scum, but it would be a risky play for him. He gets corrected on this, since we don't know the setup, and he doesn't disagree. | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36156 Posts
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Clarity_nl
Netherlands6826 Posts
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debears
United States2516 Posts
Town read on Z-Bo + Show Spoiler + On November 13 2012 09:50 iamperfection wrote: zbos explained it in his post would have been very risky in my view. On November 13 2012 09:55 iamperfection wrote: its what i think so whatever. Zbos scum is gone put himself out there like that i dont think so. Alright, these two posts seem pretty strong saying that Z-Bo is townie. Note the word use "very risky for scum" and "scum wouldn't put themselves out there like that" On November 13 2012 10:33 iamperfection wrote: guys a town zbos could lie if he was blue He could be scum he could be vt. I'm inclined looking at the comment that he was just writing what he thought and that it was probably true. He just had a slip of the tongue so i'm actually inclined to think it was actually the truth. It didn't look like to me as a scum making a post in order to put a claim together. Boom i got two town reads already which you gonna do mafia?????????? Here he states outright that he has a town read on Z-Bo Note that his town read is a null tell to me. Suspicions of BH ----> Agreeing with BH Next, iamp becomes suspicious of BH + Show Spoiler + On November 13 2012 11:31 iamperfection wrote: so uh this guys is like not helping right now and i expect better from him since i hold him in high regards. i say we force his hand. ## Vote Blazinghand Especially since he made it obvious that he was here with his "lol" Note the timestamp. 30 minutes later, this comes out On November 14 2012 00:04 iamperfection wrote: LOL dont you dare talk down to me you little punk. You criticize me when YOU were the one being all terrible with your first couple of posts. Being all herp derp i don't have to contribute even though interesting things were happening at the time. Give me a break But that being said ## Unvote Your case on zbos reminds me more of your play from rockband more then the way you were being early on. Lokking at what zbos has posted especially this crap which bh pointed out If you look closely debears never said anything about being able to tell if marv is town or not from an anyltical standpoint he made it pretty clear that it was not the case and that he had said he was simply going to vote for him no matter what. Zbos totally misrepresents what is being said here and if he has the courage to throw a vote out for it you would have thought he would have read clearly what he was in fact voting for. This post here is also another pile of crap and its the iamperfection rule of whoever defends me is probably scum. If he cared at all to check in gsl III where i was scum which he played in lollololol i thrw around 2 strong town reads early on he should know this and the fact that he isnt willing to do any legwork in order to find out is more evidence not in his favor. This post is also extremly wishy washy on everything he said. I know i said early on that i thought the miller claim was more of a town tell but well i think zbos actions speak louder. so ## Vote zboson Note the two changes here 1) BH is suddenly town because of one case 30 minutes after iamp's original suspicion 2) Z-Bo is suddenly scum because of BH's case Note his poor reasoning. His first point is BH's reasoning. His second point is the "imperfection rule"...Really??????? Also, remember that it was and is the first half of d1 at this point. Why is he jumping on Z-Bo for two fucking posts? Why is he jumping on a case from a person whom he thought was suspicious 30 minutes prior? See how poor that reasoning is? When you switch from a town read to a scum read, you're reasoning should be pretty good. An apparent guilty conscience I know i said early on that i thought the miller claim was more of a town tell but well i think zbos actions speak louder. Ok. What does this line from his vote post on Z-Bo tell us about iamp? 1) He cares about how the town is viewing him 2) He doesn't believe his reasoning is that great for his vote -note the "well I think his actions speak louder". It's a weak statement. Not a strong one, (a strong one) which should be warranted when you change your read from town to scum in literally no time Point 1 is a null tell. Point 2 doesn't make any sense from a townie perspective. What are your guy's thoughts??? | ||
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iamperfection
United States9634 Posts
On November 13 2012 10:45 iamperfection wrote: oh lol my bad thats was supposed to strongandbig in that comment. just for clarity sake | ||
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strongandbig
United States4858 Posts
bro | ||
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iamperfection
United States9634 Posts
On November 14 2012 03:49 strongandbig wrote: iamperfection is lazy as fuck, he's like mattchew in being both terrible and lazy but at the moment hapa's case is super unpersuasive to me also fuck you *Looks at your play in gsl II as town *Looks at mattchews play in liquid city as town *Looks at iamperfections play in liquid city as town yeah im the lazy one out of those three stfu. | ||
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iamperfection
United States9634 Posts
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Clarity_nl
Netherlands6826 Posts
On November 14 2012 04:17 Clarity_nl wrote: Darthpunk... maybe. Best I've got, working on a case right now but not liking how it's turning out. Yeah.... making a case on Darth isn't working, which I think in itself says a lot. If you guys somehow haven't noticed. Take a look at Darth's filter. It's basically a bunch of one-liners, jokes, the occasional null read on others. It doesn't actually help town. The only things that stand out in his filter are him voting for SnB with the comment "so retarded" (which apparantly is a null tell, judging by his previous games, he throws the word around a lot) After I jump on the SnB wagon, he votes for me without explaining. Later on he quotes his own post of him voting for me and explains why, after I explain my reasoning he quickly unvotes me and hops back on SnB. On November 13 2012 15:56 DarthPunk wrote: I am just throwing my vote around trying to see what's up. I think I explained both my votes on him adequately maybe you disagree with the reasons and that is fine. The reason I unvoted S&B the first time was that I voted for Clarity for what I perceived to be an easy jump onto an easy wagon. He gave his explanation, I unvoted and then I re-voted S&B. I cannot find the townie reasoning behind several things S&B has posted thus far. I cannot reconcile using WIFOM about his scum game as townie behaviour and I do not buy the too scummy to be scum shit. I am far from certain about him. But if he is town I want him to shape up. I don;t like using FoS's anymore so a vote it is. @blazinghand. Guess I am bad. He then claims he's just "throwing his vote around", but he doesn't ask questions or make comments about me or SnB. On November 13 2012 16:50 DarthPunk wrote: Eh. I wouldn;t say I had a particularly strong read on S&B. ##Unvote Then why vote for him? Because if it was to pressure, why wouldn't he actually explain why he's voted this way or ask questions? You either vote to lynch or you vote to pressure. But Darth's vote was.... neither? ##Vote DarthPunk | ||
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