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I just got in to work and won't be able to post much today (probably), given that I get off at the deadline.
On November 06 2012 00:46 Rad wrote: @Obzy
What do you think of Clarity's defense?
Who else are you particularly suspicious of right now? Honestly, I'm not sure, regarding Clar's defense.
On November 05 2012 21:01 Clarity_nl wrote:I asked marv about the flavor role PMs way before Cheese claimed. The reason I sounded so "condescending" (as you put it) is because I wanted him to shut up and explain why he claimed, and to try and stop others from claiming, but things went to shit fast. The reason I didn't say this earlier was because I had to check with marv if I was allowed to post this. I think Clar probably isn't VT. When I saw Cheese's "Regular Fapper" comment, I asked our hosts if it was acceptable to post something like that. (Role PM) The response led me to not put any stock in the fact it was claimed; that is to say, I couldn't draw solid conclusions from it, so I didn't look at it again. When Cheese kept pointing at it, it started looking suspicious.
The only way Clar would ask Marv about the flavor role PMs before Cheese's claim is if he had multiple. Stopping others from claiming - well, everybody could've claimed. Every single person had the PM, apparently. If everyone claimed, we'd be back at square one with no additional information. I sympathize with his thoughts and agree with PMing the hosts and waiting for information, but I don't see why he would have asked Marv about anything before the role claim actually came into play. If he's blue, scum would have already picked up on this. If he's scum, then he's scum. I don't think it leads to him being VT, though.
I like his defense, but I don't think it matches up with the above statements, so I'm not convinced. If he doesn't die N1, it doesn't really mean anything, either. He could be blue and was protected, he could be blue and scum specifically didn't target him to try to get a vote on him, he could be scum and thusly survived.
Regarding other people - My scumteam before was Clar, Sylver, and CC as potential. CC obviously wasn't, that brings it to the first two. I still think that Rad and Alsn are town, da0ud seems more townish than not. [Ignoring myself of course :D], that leaves Djo and debears. Djo is going nuts on Clar, and honestly, it looks good to me. I've had a town read on debears all game, and that hasn't changed much. If Clarity (or Sylver), whoever is lynched, was not scum.. I guess my next thought would probably be deb just due to the number of people suspicious of him? I feel otherwise, but I could be wrong. I felt that CC was more scummy than not, and that was incorrect. So maybe I'm wrong about db town, too. I don't think so, though. I still want to vote for Clarity.
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On November 06 2012 02:13 Clarity_nl wrote: @ Obzy
The reason I asked marv before Cheese claiming was because I noticed what Cheese did. The OP Townie does not match with the PM townie. The PM townie flavor is in every PM. How do you conclude from this that I am blue or scum? Because whether or not the text matches in the OP compared to the PM doesn't matter. I'm certain that every single person noticed this, but nobody else (has mentioned) PM'd Marv specifically asking if the VT flavor text meant VT. It seemed fairly self-explanatory.
And - I was under the impression that Cheese's claim was technically when he first put Regular Fapper at the end of his post; to him [as it turned out], that was a claim to all other VTs to take notice of that would not be recognized by blue or mafia. I don't agree that Cheese's actual claim was later- it was clear to him from the beginning.
Don't try to convince me that you aren't scum, convince me(and everybody else) who is.
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On November 06 2012 03:00 Clarity_nl wrote: That's not what I asked. I asked if everyone was aware of the VT flavor. If I'm VT -> I want to make sure if I should claim (when the time comes) Townie or Regular Fapper, and I wonder if scum/blue knows flavour. If I'm Blue -> I want to know if scum knows VT flavor, and if VT knows the rest knows flavour. If I'm Scum -> I want to know if blues know flavor, and if VT know the rest knows flavour.
Hmmm. To me, the idea that other roles knew VT flavor didn't remotely cross my mind until it became a central issue, so it made no sense that you would've asked Marv about it.
I'll think on it. Alsn and Rad feeling differently about you is making me worry lol.
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It does.
I have a problem with mafia, in that I'm bad at detecting liars lol. I like assuming that everybody is being honest and telling the truth, and in a proper game, that's not possible. Your responses to me are answering my questions, which just makes me wonder if I'm asking the right questions, or if you're innocent and it's just shining through or something lol. The way you reacted to Cheese's statement feels.. legitimate? Upon rereading.
What do you think of Sylver? If you're still around. For that matter, what does everyone think of Sylver?
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gg debears~ the 30 page filter, another game, perhaps.
On November 06 2012 10:07 Rad wrote: FoS Obzy FoS Djo
partial FoS Sylver ? (I understand and indeed agree with Sylver, I'm okay with being uncertain on Djo if I'm going to assume that Clarity is town.) Do you have any questions for me?
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Oh, you posted before me. I honestly expected you to die too, Rad. You or Alsn. IMO you're both obvious towns, and you're better players than I am. debears was sort of a surprise, especially after a semi-counter-lynch was going on him yesterday; I'd think that people would still have been [wrongly] suspicious of him this day.
Your point about thinking I am town makes sense from a mafia-me perspective, since I wouldn't want to kill somebody that had been supportive.
Djo - I think he was implying that he was the better target, but mafia went after debears anyways. (That mafia thought db was blue, and Rad is not, that is.) Correct me if I'm mistaken though.
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On November 06 2012 10:42 Obzy wrote: Your point about thinking I am town makes sense from a mafia-me perspective, since I wouldn't want to kill somebody that had been supportive.
Oops, this looks stupid.
I meant, your FoS makes sense if I am mafia because I wouldn't want to kill somebody that had been supportive.*
(What is it, EBWOP?)
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Hm. I think if you're banking on me upping my play and showing off hidden skills, you'll be disappointed. I was hoping to get NK'd because reading is more fun than playing IMO, having experienced it a bit, but didn't expect it because there's no reason to NK me yet. If I'm going to assume that Clarity is town, then that leaves Sylv as the only scum I feel relatively confident in voting.
Me Rad Alsn dead-cc dead-db - Clar is tentative ^^
That would leave Djo, Sylv, and da0ud. Djo was going crazy attacking Clar and was waiting for DB's supposed case on Sylv - If I'm assuming Clar is town, it makes me wonder about that, I guess.
I'd like to vote Sylv. Before Day1 post finished, I wanted to vote Clar - I feel like trusting his answer though if that makes sense. The fact that you and Alsn had town reads on him (iirc) implies that I was just outright wrong.
I've sort of ignored da0ud. I put a lot of time into reading the thread early on and kinda snapped and decided to try to worry about this game less, and he took awhile to start posting relative to the game's start. I've been largely trusting other peoples' opinions on him and not bothering looking critically. I have difficulty seeing nuances in da0ud/djo's typing styles[not that I'm a good judge anyways D: ] but Djo has been talking more often.
On November 06 2012 11:00 Rad wrote:You don't step on anyone's toes, but you need to start. I guess ##Vote Sylverfyre then.
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On November 06 2012 11:19 Djodref wrote: @ Obzy
Why would you assume that Clarity is town ?
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=379514¤tpage=56#1116
I asked him a couple questions here and got responses that I liked. At the very least, I think that Sylver is also scum, and if people want to not lynch Clarity today, I am okay with that. I don't think there's particular value in lynching a specific scum above any other, [unless I get annoyed and act irrationally], so I want to be able to think of two people that I would be okay with lynching at any point, and keeping a third suspect in case I'm wrong. We can not do a double-lynch today, so voting Sylver is fine. If Clarity slips up or is the only viable candidate going into tomorrow, we'll see at that point.
If that makes any sense. ^^
On November 06 2012 11:20 Djodref wrote: EBWOP: DO NOT SHEEP, what if one of them is scum with Clarity and the other one is outright wrong !!!
- I don't think I'm sheeping in voting Sylver, but if I am, I apologize =l I think I'd pointed out that my expected scumteam was Clarity Sylver with Cheese on the side; Cheese turned out to be town, I'm assuming Clarity is town, that leaves Sylver?
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With regards to Sylverfyre -
He said he'd be around for the day post and wasn't, but - that's just more of a note, and has absolutely nothing to do with my voting him. He made noise early in the game about a debears/djo (one of the above) as scum, particularly focusing debears. Looks at a scumteam of CC and debears during the role PM... stuff. Eventually switches his vote onto CC from debears, puts suspicion on Clarity [and db, of course].
On November 05 2012 10:01 sylverfyre wrote:If cheese flips town, it's clarity or debears. Probably both.
It clearly isn't debears. He shows a strong town read on Rad, although I think that's fairly obvious, personally.
(And now that I'm refreshing the last page to make sure I'm not missing something, he's shown up and redirects suspicion at Djo because debears flipped town.) I'm really a bit less certain what to think of this lol. If Clarity is town, and da0ud is town, it leaves Djo Sylv.. /shrug. Sylv's not addressing my vote on him at all, still. And apparently he just voted Djo too lol. If Djo/Sylv have a shootout, I'm okay with that at the moment, unless Clarity can be shown [by Rad or Alsn or da0ud, preferably] to have clear mafia signs.
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On November 06 2012 15:02 da0ud wrote:Show nested quote +On November 06 2012 14:11 Obzy wrote:With regards to Sylverfyre - He said he'd be around for the day post and wasn't, but - that's just more of a note, and has absolutely nothing to do with my voting him. He made noise early in the game about a debears/djo (one of the above) as scum, particularly focusing debears. Looks at a scumteam of CC and debears during the role PM... stuff. Eventually switches his vote onto CC from debears, puts suspicion on Clarity [and db, of course]. On November 05 2012 10:01 sylverfyre wrote:If cheese flips town, it's clarity or debears. Probably both. It clearly isn't debears. He shows a strong town read on Rad, although I think that's fairly obvious, personally. (And now that I'm refreshing the last page to make sure I'm not missing something, he's shown up and redirects suspicion at Djo because debears flipped town.) I'm really a bit less certain what to think of this lol. If Clarity is town, and da0ud is town, it leaves Djo Sylv.. /shrug. Sylv's not addressing my vote on him at all, still. And apparently he just voted Djo too lol. If Djo/Sylv have a shootout, I'm okay with that at the moment, unless Clarity can be shown [by Rad or Alsn or da0ud, preferably] to have clear mafia signs. @ObzyI have a hard time considering what you say seriously when you keep putting "lol" everywhere. Could you be more assertive ? I feel like you tell your thoughts but don't want to take any real positions. Not very townie behaviour. Push your reads please !
I was trying to. I voted Sylver, that was me attempting to push Sylver as a read and apparently I am just horrible at it because not a single person noticed or cared until now, at which point I'm told by you that it's not good enough. The lol is just how I type, I apologize for any confusion. I'll try to stop using it until I forget =l I had a strong Clar-is-scum read that got sort of shot down by doubts from Rad and Alsn, and not really being able to question adequately(apparently) earlier this morning.. Now there are votes on Clar and we're ignoring Sylv - ??? I don't understand. Until tomorrow afternoon (or maybe while I'm at work tomorrow), my vote is parked on Sylv and I think that other people should be voting Sylv too. If there's zero chance of a Sylv lynch because of lack of interest, lack of caring, lack of response to my attempt at a case from both other players and Sylv himself, I'll reconsider then, but seriously what the heck.
On November 06 2012 14:36 Rad wrote:My read on clarity is town, djo.
On November 06 2012 15:02 Rad wrote:##Vote Clarity
I just don't get it. I'm not implying that Rad isn't town, it just astonishes me how the tide of opinion shifts, and in less than 30 minutes. This morning I would've been more than happy to vote Clarity, it was my intention to do so, and I feel like I was talked/intimidated out of it. Now, here we are again.
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I see. Okay, then. I'll read debears' (and Djo's) posts again - my doubts about Clarity being scum took place after CC's mislynch and trying to figure out the situation, I will go through the thread pre-day 1 and look at the parts involving Clarity again tomorrow.
And Rad - I completely understand that you're voting Clarity to appease Djo and encourage him to scumhunt elsewhere, but if you don't legitimately think that Clarity is scum, I disagree with the fact that you are voting him... but I guess this early on in the day, it doesn't matter enormously.
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On November 07 2012 03:38 sylverfyre wrote: Obzy I find strange, because it feels like he was actually MORE active during the night phase than day phase.
You're voting me, but I get the feeling you're listening more to other arguments against me than making any of your own. I'm confused what to think of you until you make a case today. This post feels too much like a subtle "playing the newbie card"
Regarding Night/Day phase - I expected to not be very active due to being at work, but if work is slow for me, I do a lot of reading; and there weren't as many people on so the thread was a lot slower. When the thread is slow enough, it feels like I can take my time to type out my posts without losing a hold of the conversation.
And... I'm having doubts about voting you. Nobody feels suspicious or cares. It feels like CC again in a way, but CC flipped town. I'll remove the vote for now, because I think my reasoning is kind of stupid. I was thinking that if you were scum, the scumteam was Djo/you. If Djo is the jailkeeper [and I don't see any reason to disbelieve this unless another jailkeeper emerges], I have no idea who your scumbuddy is. All of that was based on "if Clarity is town"; comma, "who is left"? - Unless Djo can be shown to be lying or something, I think I'll go back to thinking blindly that Clarity was scum as I had been doing the other day pre-CC lynch. I will try to put together a case for Clarity later today, but if it feels sort of half-assed and empty like my case against you felt then I'm not sure what to think and will have to re-evaluate again.
I wish debears had been able to post his case before dying. ^^;
##Unvote
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On November 07 2012 06:24 Clarity_nl wrote:I think everyone in this game so far has said Obzy looks newb town. I agreed with them. But the more I look at his filter, the more uses of "I suck, I'm just a newbie" I find. This could be lack of confidence, but it's convenient, isn't it? I'm sure most of us here have read the XXX analysis thread by Ver, and if you haven't I recommend it. In this, Ver explains how town could have had an easy scum lynch on day 1, Misder. Ver pointed out that apologizing a lot, and claiming to be new/not smart enough/not fast enough to keep up makes no sense as town. If you are town, you do not discredit yourself. You want your argument to matter and you want people to take you seriously. Cheese even made a post about it: Show nested quote +On November 03 2012 11:44 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: Here's a topic: I don't want anyone playing the noob card as a defense. Ever. You can make decent arguments / cases even if it's your first game. Don't attribute your actions to "I'm sorry, idk what I'm doing! Newbie town here! Man I suck at this game." <snip> Let's count how many times he either apologizes, claims to be new or claims to have no good input. + Show Spoiler [Giant spoiler.] +On November 03 2012 14:21 Obzy wrote:K - This is in response to debears post asking about me. I may screw up the formatting but hopefully not - Show nested quote +On November 03 2012 13:40 debears wrote: Obsy has been around the thread. What I have found is that he seems to be actively lurking. Notice above post. Asking a pretty much useless question. It's newbie town/scum tell, so it's a null tell
Yeah, I've been trying to read and refresh the thread regularly, I think I've been away from it for maybe an hour total since game start. Show nested quote +On November 03 2012 13:40 debears wrote: He has a few one-liners like the above. Mostly, his posts do not take a strong stance and his opinions seem to be easily swayed. Again newbie town/scum tell.
1)I've typed out a few posts that were a bit longer, but after re-reading, it didn't look like they did anything to advance town interests and the only thing they did was look spammy and unhelpful, so I've mostly been deleting them. I am, as mentioned, not really certain whether or not I'm judging things properly and taking a concrete stance on something that turns out to be stupid feels sort of dumb. Show nested quote +On November 03 2012 13:40 debears wrote: I don't like this post. At all. Trying to come up with excuses to not be posting. Sure the thread is moving pretty decently (score one for town), but it's nothing huge and pretty easy to follow so far imo.
No comment, it does move really fast. Show nested quote +On November 03 2012 13:40 debears wrote: Here he acts confused. He asks questions without answering them himself or even really attempting to answer them himself.
I didn't really want to call you out directly. You responded really strongly to Alsn's red font, and it seemed counterproductive - but stifling discussion is a problem; given that you've been the primary generator of discussion. Show nested quote +On November 03 2012 13:40 debears wrote: Who have a tough time contributing early? Usually scum because
1) They are afraid to post and put themselves out there since they are guilty and know so 2) They know the players they are accusing are town and they can't actually find real evidence to use
However, I admit this is also a newbie town trait.
2)I don't have a problem with posting, I don't want to post meaninglessly. Writing about things that are actually useful and will help everybody is difficult, because when I look at what I've drafted it looks moronic and doesn't help anybody. Answering being directly called out is a lot easier, since I don't have to cast about for what to say, I just have to explain how I'm playing. Show nested quote +On November 03 2012 13:40 debears wrote: Honestly, this post is just absolutely worthless. It has no actual input. Says nothing about the current happenings of the thread.
I wanted the conversation to shift away from talking about Cheese using jokes or not. It was a meaningless thing to discuss. Pointing it out so early and then dwelling on it for so long meant that it isn't a good scumtell for Cheese, while also making him aware of the fact he was doing it (Assuming that it WAS a scumtell, it no longer is). That entire discussion was just a waste of time, so I would say that it makes sense that my post, pointing it out, was equally useless. I definitely have been reading the thread, but haven't done a very good job of blending in. That's not really the point, anyways. You haven't been blending in, because you've been actively advancing the interests of town. I'm not a good enough judge to know if you're doing so genuinely, but you're the most active player currently (IMHO). I haven't read past this post yet, but I'll go ahead and do so now. If I see something, I'll comment. On November 03 2012 15:03 Obzy wrote: Alright, I'll check it out when I get a chance. 3)Trying to read like four of the newbie guides and everyone's filters lol ._.; and hitting refresh on this tab occasionally so I don't miss stuff. I suppose since I'm here-
@Rad I just finished reading through your filter. It's almost depressing - I really appreciate how you're encouraging - but I haven't seen any cases. MLG is a valid excuse IMHO, tomorrow I would also like to see some reads on players from you. I really want you to be town, but I don't know if there's anything backing up you being town any more than there is ME being town. ^^;
I will be sure to take a look regarding dembearz, though - that filter is going to be sort of miserable to read haha :0 On November 03 2012 16:06 Obzy wrote:Hm. Okay. I've been looking at FoS the same way as a vote. Assuming people intend to vote the way they are suspicious, I didn't really think there was a difference; letting the mod keep track makes an amount of sense, though. @Cheese 4>:l The no newb cards comment seems specifically aimed at me. Not really a fan. I'm not wholly sure why he dropped his argument against debears so quickly - pointing out previous meta, etc, and then it just absolutely falls off the face of the planet. Why? (I disagree with this statement, by the way: Show nested quote +Again, another exact mistake I made last game. Feeling the need to tell people that you have been reading the thread. For the second part, he's assuring that we realize that he knows this game is important to him. As town, he wouldn't feel the need to tell us that the game is important. That sounds like the sort of thing I would do. Bringing up the not using newbness as an excuse without calling me out specifically (as the only player who was not participating in the previous game) and then 5)pointing out a scumtell based on inexperience looks like a trap. It may be valid, but combined with the earlier statement, there doesn't really seem to be an answer besides inexperienced town and scum, and you've already indicated that inexperienced town is unacceptable. Why wouldn't you just vote? FoS Mr. Cheese.@Djo Notes: ignores deb/Als argument, policy discussion, mechanics discussion, argument with Cheesecake. If I didn't dislike CC's argument, I'd be a little more doubtful, but... I do dislike it. I think part of the problem for Djo is I have a hard time reading some of his sentences, so it's a little harder to follow his exact train of thought lol. Given that I'm suspicious of CC, I don't have a real problem with Djo at this time. @debears [I seriously clicked your filter and cringed before realizing it's 4 pages, not 40.] (Also, @sylver..) However I may have mentioned FoS vs vote confusion at the top of this post that I wrote like 30 minutes ago, I really don't like the vote on debears at all. If I'm wrong, fucking bummer, but debears is driving conversation. His filter's not easy to read, but the content is useful to Me, at least. I wish I wasn't getting attacked har har, but the activeness in making me respond to stop lurking is a townie move IMHO. If he was mafia, he would've let me continue happily lurking and reading to my heart's content and then blasted me in a day, rather than trying to get me to start contributing early on. For god's sake, it had been less than 6 hours from the start of the game, you hadn't even appeared yet, there were people with only a few words and he writes up a post designed to get me to contribute? That definitely feels townie to me. I don't see how you could come to the opposite conclusion. Some (Maybe even a lot!) of the filter is pretty pointless and could've gone unsaid. The parts that DID go said are, I think, the best in the thread. If he didn't have quality bits in the filter along with the spam I'd think differently but the quality parts look solid. I definitely think he's town at the moment. You haven't interacted with anybody besides Rad and myself, and your first post comes in and blasts debears? @da0ud What the hell dude, get in here and post >_> 6)You can't do worse than me ffsI'm going to take a break now and probably sleep. If anybody has any questions, concerns, claims, or suspicions about me please say something because being called out is good for stopping lurking -_- 7)And when the thread is going fast with a focused discussion it's really hard to jump in. The above is all in page 1 of his filter. At this point I will skip a couple of posts, please looks at them yourselves, but you'll find one of these in almost every one of his posts. So let's look at some on page 3 (his last page)On November 06 2012 04:45 Obzy wrote: It does.
8)I have a problem with mafia, in that I'm bad at detecting liars lol. I like assuming that everybody is being honest and telling the truth, and in a proper game, that's not possible. Your responses to me are answering my questions, which just makes me wonder if I'm asking the right questions, or if you're innocent and it's just shining through or something lol. The way you reacted to Cheese's statement feels.. legitimate? Upon rereading.
What do you think of Sylver? If you're still around. For that matter, what does everyone think of Sylver? On November 06 2012 11:15 Obzy wrote:Hm. 9)I think if you're banking on me upping my play and showing off hidden skills, you'll be disappointed. I was hoping to get NK'd because reading is more fun than playing IMO, having experienced it a bit, but didn't expect it because there's no reason to NK me yet. If I'm going to assume that Clarity is town, then that leaves Sylv as the only scum I feel relatively confident in voting. Me Rad Alsn dead-cc dead-db - Clar is tentative ^^ That would leave Djo, Sylv, and da0ud. Djo was going crazy attacking Clar and was waiting for DB's supposed case on Sylv - If I'm assuming Clar is town, it makes me wonder about that, I guess. I'd like to vote Sylv. Before Day1 post finished, I wanted to vote Clar - I feel like trusting his answer though if that makes sense. The fact that you and Alsn had town reads on him (iirc) implies that I was just outright wrong. I've sort of ignored da0ud. 10)I put a lot of time into reading the thread early on and kinda snapped and decided to try to worry about this game less, and he took awhile to start posting relative to the game's start. I've been largely trusting other peoples' opinions on him and not bothering looking critically. I have difficulty seeing nuances in da0ud/djo's typing styles[not that I'm a good judge anyways D: ] but Djo has been talking more often. Show nested quote +On November 06 2012 11:00 Rad wrote:You don't step on anyone's toes, but you need to start. I guess ##Vote Sylverfyrethen. Is this really someone's attitude coming into a mafia game? Let's compare it to his pregame: Show nested quote +On November 02 2012 10:06 Obzy wrote: /in
I didn't want to in on the last one due to not being sure if I'd have enough time to be active, given that I'm normally only able to read for a couple hours throughout the day.
But after the activity shown in the last game... I may have been setting the bar too high for myself.
Here's to the game filling up fast >:0 Hmmm... it seems not. He seemed genuinely excited to play, so why the change of heart? He's even claimed he doesn't want to play anymore a couple of times. Again, this is all very convenient, and the reason that I now believe Obzy is MafiaNot convinced? How about this: Show nested quote +On November 03 2012 14:21 Obzy wrote: <snip> I definitely have been reading the thread, but haven't done a very good job of blending in. That's not really the point, anyways. You haven't been blending in, because you've been actively advancing the interests of town. I'm not a good enough judge to know if you're doing so genuinely, but you're the most active player currently (IMHO).
I haven't read past this post yet, but I'll go ahead and do so now. If I see something, I'll comment. Why would Obzy care about blending in if he was town? He wouldn't. He also made a couple of posts stating that he was lurking, like X Y and Z. Whereas I did not consider myself to be lurking, he did yet didn't change his posting behaviour: Show nested quote +On November 03 2012 15:16 Obzy wrote: @Alsn There really hasn't been enough said. His entire contribution to the thread was a quick jab at debears, talking for 40 minutes past when he said he was going to bed, and leaving. I'll have to wait until tomorrow before I have any idea.
@Clarity Is lurking a bit, responding when relevant. Similar to Rad. Similar to myself but better, not like that's difficult :[. Also was watching MLG; hopefully tomorrow he has reads on people, rather than lurking and commenting when relevant to try to move discussion along.
Show nested quote +On November 03 2012 16:06 Obzy wrote: <snip> I'm going to take a break now and probably sleep. If anybody has any questions, concerns, claims, or suspicions about me please say something because being called out is good for stopping lurking -_- And when the thread is going fast with a focused discussion it's really hard to jump in. My final point is this post: Show nested quote +On November 05 2012 09:35 Obzy wrote: <snip> I think that your point here is ridiculous. Giving up is incredibly anti-town, and poor behavior. Up until right now, I have been stressed out and sort of unhappy about how much time this takes, but I won't ask for a replacement, I won't get modkilled, and I won't try to get myself mislynched just to avoid playing. Giving up, if you were town, is incredibly foul.
You're not though, so it's okay. In this post he proclaims he's close to giving up, he barely cares. He implies he won't be posting as much and he hasn't. Looking at a singular post of his, it seems reasonable. He's not too confident but he's trying, right? But when you look at the bigger picture. When you look at the fact that there were so many "newb claims" that I didn't even list them all, when you compare his behaviour in the pregame to his behaviour now, I find it hard to believe he isn't just subtly playing the newb card. Obzy is Mafia.
Hmmm. I'm sort of glad you're posting this. People bringing me up offhandedly but not asking any questions or pointing any fingers is a little.. well, I just sort of go "Oh well, it's inevitable I guess." I'll try to speak on some of these points, though -
Of course it's my attitude when playing a mafia game. I lack confidence, that much is obvious. My pointing it out constantly is pretty pointless - I apologize for that. I don't really get how pregame matters, and given that that's supposedly the main reason you think I'm mafia (combined with my disheartened-ness and lack of determination), I disagree with your assumption.
My blending-in comment is due to somebody bringing up the fact I had been blending in, when I thought I had done a rather poor job of precisely that, along with the fact that blending in is pointless. I pointed that out literally one sentence after your colored one.
If you'd prefer I openly play the newb card, I could do that too =l But I'm pretty sure everybody has already come to a conclusion that I'm not the most experienced player here. Basing your argument largely off of my interest pregame to my lack-of-confidence and realization that "this game takes WAY more than 20-30 minutes a day of typing and 1 hour a day of reading to play even remotely-properly" makes no sense.
(With regards to sort of not wanting to play - Eh. Yeah? I just don't want to let town down by asking for a replacement because I don't want to invest the time, or literally not reading the thread and voting randomly, or ruining the game in a similar fashion.) I feel like I have a responsibility to try to help town, and getting mislynched is pretty much the best way I could ruin that. That specifically is why I was mad at Cheese. (I shouldn't've berated him after he flipped town, I still feel bad about and apologize again to him for that. My tone was improper.) With that said though, he DID get mislynched. It would be better for somebody to literally have made a single post (as a townie) and not gotten mislynched than to be active, be getting pushed, and then give up and stop trying. He began trying shortly after the initial wave of frustration that I think he experienced, which is more commendable than literally rolling over and dying with something along the lines of "I'm green and you guys are gonna regret this one."
A line like that is self-serving and lets one go "I told you so~" but it doesn't help town. Helping town is landing a proper lynch.
So even though I lack confidence, feel that I'm bad and have been pointing it out, and have had diminished interest as the true workload of this game has become more clear, I'm not going to let you mislynch me.
As I mentioned earlier, I'll try to look through Clarity again later today, but for now,
##Vote Clarity_nl
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Alsn, I decided that you and Rad were town largely because your first posts looked like they were useful, and it helped me limit the amount of people I had to consider as non-town. I'm not sure what to make of the pressure on Rad, or the fact that a lot of it is coming from you.
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On November 07 2012 07:03 Clarity_nl wrote:Show nested quote +On November 07 2012 06:48 Obzy wrote: Hmmm. I'm sort of glad you're posting this. How am I supposed to take this other than you're glad it was me who made a case on you, because right now I'm probably the least credible active player. Your whole "I feel defeated but I will not be defeated!" attitude makes no sense to me.
I'm glad you are posting a case on me, specifically. Heh.
Being called out in general gives a clear indication that my posting will be listened to when I respond, but getting called out by you makes my trust of Djo's JK claim increase, since he was been beating his head against you for hours this morning. You posting a case that I know is false makes me believe more in his case, which helps me trust his claim and innocence. A team composed of him and Sylver was only something I mused about if you were town.
Maybe you're town and your case against me is just flat-out incorrect, you're just misguided. That's possible. But I think you think that too; you didn't vote. You clearly say "Obzy is Mafia" in fancy red highlighting and you do not vote. >_>
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On November 07 2012 07:16 Clarity_nl wrote:Show nested quote +On November 07 2012 07:15 Obzy wrote:On November 07 2012 07:03 Clarity_nl wrote:On November 07 2012 06:48 Obzy wrote: Hmmm. I'm sort of glad you're posting this. How am I supposed to take this other than you're glad it was me who made a case on you, because right now I'm probably the least credible active player. Your whole "I feel defeated but I will not be defeated!" attitude makes no sense to me. I'm glad you are posting a case on me, specifically. Heh. Being called out in general gives a clear indication that my posting will be listened to when I respond, but getting called out by you makes my trust of Djo's JK claim increase, since he was been beating his head against you for hours this morning. You posting a case that I know is false makes me believe more in his case, which helps me trust his claim and innocence. A team composed of him and Sylver was only something I mused about if you were town. Maybe you're town and your case against me is just flat-out incorrect, you're just misguided. That's possible. But I think you think that too; you didn't vote. You clearly say "Obzy is Mafia" in fancy red highlighting and you do not vote. >_> ##Vote ObzyThere are still 27 hours until lynch, but fine, there you go. If my case is incorrect, you should be able to point out why.
B. What Not to Post Don’t argue with your target. They are never going to agree with you, so you are just taking up space. If it appears that your target is convincing the town not to vote for them, re-evaluate. If you are still confident in your analysis, focus on convincing the other townies. You want to intimidate your target and convince the town, not the other way around. The quote doesn't _quite_ fit, it's more of advice to you rather than me stating my reasoning, but-
I have posted my response to your case. I don't need to convince you. I'm voting for you! I think you're scum! Why would you listen to me trying to refute your case again, with different words?
If other people have specific questions, they can ask me at any point, and I will answer to the best of my ability.
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Being a newb doesn't mean I can't copy paste from a guide.
Suddenly so confident, huh. Well, I am confident that I'm town. That's not a controversial stance that I can be yelled at for being wrong on. Combined with the flips of CC and db, being town is the only fact I possess.
I feel quite enormously confident about that indeed.
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@Alsn - I'm at work right now, but I'll try to get it at you quickly, seeing as you're EU time[like 8+ hours or something]. If I don't get it to you before you go to bed, I apologize in advance; you'll see it by the time you wake up.
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(I'm writing in notepad so I don't accidentally delete anything and can save it if I head home halfway through) -
Rad, do you legitimately think that Djo's claim is fake? Or are you saying that your two targets are Sylver and myself? (Which is fine, I'm writing my Clar case to help convince you otherwise.)
Because I see no reason to disbelieve Djo atm.
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