EPTOkay, prplhz I agree with the concept of your idea, but what would you propose we do to get the game actually started. At some point we end up accusing lurkers or calling something/someone stupid if no one pulls a stupid case out of their ass. Or else, it'll be VERY weak reads based on making the littlest out to be scummy. Would that be okay with you?
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Hopeless1der
United States5836 Posts
Okay, prplhz I agree with the concept of your idea, but what would you propose we do to get the game actually started. At some point we end up accusing lurkers or calling something/someone stupid if no one pulls a stupid case out of their ass. Or else, it'll be VERY weak reads based on making the littlest out to be scummy. Would that be okay with you? | ||
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Hopeless1der
United States5836 Posts
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kushm4sta
United States8878 Posts
I think we can use name claims for evidence in our first lynch. Like ask the person who we are about to lynch what their role name is, then we have a mass role claim after our L-1 says his name. If it matches the theme of ours, we know they might be town (depending on how broad of a theme the names are) What do people think of this plan? Do you understand it and think it's a good idea? | ||
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thrawn2112
United States6918 Posts
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drazak
United States479 Posts
Just realized that explanation sucks, but basically what I'm saying is that it gives mafia a TON of information to claim millers so early. | ||
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thrawn2112
United States6918 Posts
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Zealos
United Kingdom3575 Posts
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kushm4sta
United States8878 Posts
On November 01 2012 08:22 drazak wrote: I don't think they need to claim early D1, it gives mafia someone NOT to lynch as the miller doesn't have a useful role. If I were scum I would be pretty happy with nk confirmed town. On November 01 2012 08:25 thrawn2112 wrote: If a miller claims D1 I don't even know what my thought process would be for deciding if I believe them or not, so I'm hesitatingly saying that I disagree with the idea That is what is so good about the miller claim. It's confirmed by the second miller. Scum can never claim miller unless one of the millers is already dead. _____ OK maybe mass claim is a bad idea because of blues.. I wasn't thinking that. How about they name claim anyway though and we can all judge the validity of their name claim without revealing ours. | ||
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thrawn2112
United States6918 Posts
On November 01 2012 08:35 kushm4sta wrote: To the people saying millers shouldn't claim: You are wrong. If I were scum I would be pretty happy with nk confirmed town. That is what is so good about the miller claim. It's confirmed by the second miller. Scum can never claim miller unless one of the millers is already dead. _____ OK maybe mass claim is a bad idea because of blues.. I wasn't thinking that. How about they name claim anyway though and we can all judge the validity of their name claim without revealing ours. kush miller =/= mason lol | ||
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drazak
United States479 Posts
Kush you're not making sense. | ||
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kushm4sta
United States8878 Posts
On November 01 2012 08:36 drazak wrote: What. How is anyone NOT mafia not confirmed town? o.O Kush you're not making sense. you're not making sense... I'm saying they are confirmed town for town, and that is a valuable target for nk imo. @thrawn fuck i got those mixed up lol The town who can talk to each other they should claim I think. Also don't say your role name unless you are going to be lynched. | ||
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Release
United States4397 Posts
Are we asking Millers or Masons to claim? prplhz (the origin of the idea) said millers and now kushmasta has asked for masons to claim (although he does avoid saying mason). I have to say already that kshmasta is looking scummy. Since i don't see the advantage of a miller claim, i'd like to know why a miller should claim (from both prplhz and hope in particular). I'd also like to hear from kushmasta why you avoided saying mason. | ||
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Release
United States4397 Posts
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kushm4sta
United States8878 Posts
On November 01 2012 09:01 Release wrote: EBWOP: those are three separate ideas, although kushmasta is looking scummy for both trying to change who should claim and being deceitful about it. I'm not being deceitful about it, I just got their names mixed up. I think they should probably both claim actually. @release Are you suggesting that I'm trying to trick power roles like vig, dt, etc into mass claiming? Are millers' true alignment revealed upon death? | ||
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Zealos
United Kingdom3575 Posts
On November 01 2012 09:00 Release wrote: to everyone: Are we asking Millers or Masons to claim? prplhz (the origin of the idea) said millers and now kushmasta has asked for masons to claim (although he does avoid saying mason). I don't like the idea of masons claiming at all? o.O | ||
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thrawn2112
United States6918 Posts
thinking prplhz meant mason when he said miller is what kush did, i even did it to for a while... i don't see how it even comes close to [i[being deceitful[/i] | ||
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Zealos
United Kingdom3575 Posts
On November 01 2012 09:07 thrawn2112 wrote: [/i]release, you are looking scummy. what was kush "deceitful" about? your accusation against him is spin-city thinking prplhz meant mason when he said miller is what kush did, i even did it to for a while... i don't see how it even comes close to [i[being deceitful I highly doubt a mafia would get so aggressive right off the bat imo. Just seems like dumb reasoning, is all. | ||
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kushm4sta
United States8878 Posts
On November 01 2012 09:09 Zealos wrote: [/i]I highly doubt a mafia would get so aggressive right off the bat imo. Just seems like dumb reasoning, is all. Aggression is only a towntell if you have meta to back it up. I have seen scum be very aggressive early. I also want to hear more from release about why he thinks my plan was scummy. (also yeah maybe mason claim is dumb now that I think about it more. I can see pros and cons to it.) | ||
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Hopeless1der
United States5836 Posts
On November 01 2012 09:00 Release wrote: to everyone: Are we asking Millers or Masons to claim? prplhz (the origin of the idea) said millers and now kushmasta has asked for masons to claim (although he does avoid saying mason). I have to say already that kshmasta is looking scummy. Since i don't see the advantage of a miller claim, i'd like to know why a miller should claim (from both prplhz and hope in particular). I'd also like to hear from kushmasta why you avoided saying mason. Well, it's going to end up keeping them alive through the nights, at least from NK's. Claiming/fakeclaiming miller is confirming that you will return red if you are investigated, so it saves the DT's a target to check in that sense. Miller's are likely to end up vigged or lynch just before lylo, because we can't take the risk at that point, but it could also compel them to scum-hunt a bit harder if people are always nursing suspicions about a fakeclaim. The biggest thing is that if any mafia want to fakeclaim miller, they have to do it NOW. It cannot be in response to a DT check or if you're about to be lynched (and to be honest, I wouldn't believe an "omg i'm about to be lynched" miller claim anyways). On November 01 2012 08:35 kushm4sta wrote: OK maybe mass claim is a bad idea because of blues.. I wasn't thinking that. How about they name claim anyway though and we can all judge the validity of their name claim without revealing ours. I guess that could be useful? It's at least something to go by to help solidify a read. However... Do scum get fake/safeclaims? Mason Claims - I think are a bad idea. Mason's get stronger as the game goes on. I'd rather they write last wills of some sort to confirm each other in case on dies/is about to be lynched, and their pm logs are going to be proof enough in most cases. Miller Claims - I think are a good idea. | ||
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Acrofales
Spain17980 Posts
Firstly, millers should claim, masons should not. There is currently NO reason to claim mason and it is an easy claim to make if you or your partner runs into trouble, or it's lylo. However, masons SHOULD make a very subtle breadcrumb (note the subtle, I don't even want to whiff it if it exists). Then notify your mason buddy about how it's done. If mafia/sk inadvertently offs one of the masons, the other one has some decent evidence to back his claim up. Millers should claim, so that people can't claim miller after DT checks come back red (we still have a potential framer to deal with, but that can be dealt with IF we get red checks). Mafia, feel free to claim miller as well. Claiming miller does not automatically exculpate you: it is only there to remove the "but wait guys, i'm a miller"-excuse out of the equation. For the record, I am NOT a miller. Now, on to the suspicions and stuff. I have no clue what to make of kush's derping and release's suspicions, so for the moment I will simply make nothing of it and sit here and observe how this game goes. However, I do see a lot of people I don't know. So how about a round of introductions. I'll start. I am Acro. I am awesome. Some games: Moderately representative town game: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=343892 Scum game: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=344514 Please everybody, do the same sorta thing. Makes crossreferencing your playstyle a bit easier than having to delve through your profile. | ||
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