GSL Mini Mafia III

On October 20 2012 09:15 Hapahauli wrote:
Oh, and you didn't roll scum again did you DP? You tend to roll mafia quite often

On October 20 2012 09:17 Hapahauli wrote:


The "hammer" is the clinching vote in insta-lynch.

i.e. someone has 4 votes on him D1 - whoever puts in vote #5 is the hammer (and better have some pretty damn good rationale for it).

On October 20 2012 09:22 Hapahauli wrote:


The nice thing about policy is we can choose how strictly to enforce it or not. I just would like to set the stage for some discussion, and create an environment where people aren't scared to seriously pursue scumreads.

On October 20 2012 09:24 drazak wrote:
Progamer Darthpunk, what about you? Sounds like you're pretty good at scum, and a lot of games as mafia means you're probably pretty good at it, better to get rid of you quickly then. :D

On October 20 2012 09:30 drazak wrote:
Yeah, I don't think policy lynches are a great idea for forum mafia. Hard to keep to a policy, hard to agree to one, and generally useless. That guy lurking probably isn't mafia, and might just be scared to post because he has a role, or because he doesn't, or something.

On October 20 2012 10:01 iamperfection wrote:

Im all for using votes to apply pressure and we don't have to worry about someone doing a stupid hammer it wont happen. However all this policy talk bores me time for some action.


blatant blue hunting darthpunk. Why not ask alignment instead of role?

Talk to me darthpunk i wish to know more.
## Vote DarthPunk

On October 20 2012 10:03 drazak wrote:
Haha, I was gonna do the same thing for his way of asking me, but I wasn't sure if I wanted to be the first vote.

##Vote DarthPunk

On October 20 2012 10:03 drazak wrote:
Haha, I was gonna do the same thing for his way of asking me, but I wasn't sure if I wanted to be the first vote.

##Vote DarthPunk

On October 20 2012 10:14 drazak wrote:
Why would scum be afraid of casting a vote? If voting and being active is "town" then casting votes would be the most "town" thing you could do. Nervous town are far more likely to not want to early vote because they might not be sure if it makes them look mafia or not. I'm nervous town.

@iamperfection

As far as what makes me tick? Not sure what you want me to say, I'm a fairly inexperience forum mafia player, I'd like to think I'm not that bad but I'm still pretty nervous about certain things. I watched the last gsl game in despair because of how inactive it was, so I'm trying to be more active than I've ever been. Best flavor of mafia games (IMO) with a gerrible terrible game 2 of the series.

On October 20 2012 10:25 drazak wrote:
Just giving my thought process on it, while it may not be WIFOM, it's how I thought of it after the fact (and why I was hesitating on voting in the first place). I don't think Mafia have any need to bandwagon votes in an instant lynch game, could be wrong, but it seems somewhat ineffective as nobody will hammer it if there isn't sufficient reason, and if mafia does hammer it it's going to make them look pretty scummy. Voting also causes conversation, which mafia is likely to be somewhat adverse to for having less chance to scumslip. Just my thoughts on how it works with this scenario, obviously mafia have to make some votes.

On October 20 2012 10:36 Hapahauli wrote:
Oh btw, anyone here know anything about vaderseven? I think he's BH's friend, but I've never played a game with him.

On October 20 2012 11:45 Keirathi wrote:

You sure like throwing the word WIFOM at people but using it yourself when it benefits you :o

Also, Hi people!

On October 20 2012 12:10 vaderseven wrote:


Really you stand by that?

You don't care about the alignment someone claims (and why should you at this stage of day 1, it would be joke posts at best)... and you want to peg someone on either claiming their role or lieing about in thread. When asked to explain it you don't fall back on 'jokepost lol' and instead give us this line about setting someone up to be caught in a lie?

I r confused. Thats like too scummy in a bad way to be possibly true. I have to write it off as just stupid.

On October 20 2012 12:19 Keirathi wrote:

I completely agree with vader here.

I mean, DP, what if Draz is a blue. What do you expect him to say? Of course he's not going to claim a blue role (I hope), a few hours into day 1. So, he claims Progamer. Then he gets close to lynch, and says "Okay, I'm actually Nestea. Don't lynch me!". What are you going to do, lynch him because he lied and said he was progamer 3 hours into the game?

I call bullshit. You know that everyone is going to claim progamer just the same as everyone is going to claim green.

There were many acceptable replies iamp's accusation. Yours was not one of them.

On October 20 2012 12:24 austinmcc wrote:


If no blue is going to claim and no scum is going to claim, then what does this post even mean....

On October 20 2012 12:32 austinmcc wrote:

I agree that this isn't really a scummy thing to have done, just a dumb one, but I think MOST of the reason we're getting on your case is that you basically claimed you were DOING something with it, that this somehow kept people from fakeclaiming:


when that's not true. You sort of made up a weird reason to justify your weird question, and are now going with a different explanation for your weird question.

On October 20 2012 12:36 iamperfection wrote:

don't be so nub and post closer to the day post.





No i wasn't really satisfied with your answer because it comes based on an assumption you made. but i would like more information. Epically after i heard more from drazak.

tell me have you played with him before?

On October 20 2012 12:42 vaderseven wrote:
You seem to not get that scum would just the very obv thing of claiming green now without a care for the future. Fake claims are not prepared this far in advance.

Thats such a "duh" that I am pretty sure anyone trying to think about your statement would have come to that conclusion.

On October 20 2012 12:48 austinmcc wrote:

All blues will say they're green.
All scum will say they're green.

Later,

Blues will claim blue, "because they are telling the truth."
Scum will "be dissuaded from fake claiming" because "they will instantly be under scrutiny for lying"

Somehow scum will be under scrutiny for lying, but blues won't be under scrutiny for lying? Or scum will somehow feel that, by telling you in the first hours of the game that they were vt, they now can't claim to be anything else? Your reasoning just doesn't make sense.

Moreover, if your goal is to make scum feel pressure somehow, you'd ask everyone in thread. If the goal is to "put pressure on scum" in your mind, you'd make sure that you asked your question to everyone. By asking only one person, you're saying you wanted to put pressure on scum, when really you have no idea if you did that or not.

On October 20 2012 10:03 drazak wrote:
Haha, I was gonna do the same thing for his way of asking me, but I wasn't sure if I wanted to be the first vote.

##Vote DarthPunk

On October 20 2012 10:25 drazak wrote:
Just giving my thought process on it, while it may not be WIFOM, it's how I thought of it after the fact (and why I was hesitating on voting in the first place). I don't think Mafia have any need to bandwagon votes in an instant lynch game, could be wrong, but it seems somewhat ineffective as nobody will hammer it if there isn't sufficient reason, and if mafia does hammer it it's going to make them look pretty scummy. Voting also causes conversation, which mafia is likely to be somewhat adverse to for having less chance to scumslip. Just my thoughts on how it works with this scenario, obviously mafia have to make some votes.

On October 20 2012 10:05 drazak wrote:
Well, I kind of thought it was stupid, but yeah, it starts conversation and forces him to reply. Seemed like he was replying pretty well on his own though so I was gonna leave it, but the connection seems to have gone dead.

On October 20 2012 12:24 drazak wrote:
Sounds like you're trying to look like you're scum hunting while not actually hunting.

On October 20 2012 13:05 austinmcc wrote:
Darth, do you believe that drazak is scum?

On October 20 2012 13:11 austinmcc wrote:
In light of that post, I'm specifically interested in whether you thought he was scum at the time you asked him his role. Not in whether you've found him scummy since then.

On October 20 2012 13:15 Hapahauli wrote:
I go off to play some TF2 and the thread blows up - sweet!

Regarding DP

If I'm getting his logic correctly, he used "role" instead of "allignment" when questioning Draz because scum will somehow be under more pressure if they fakeclaim later, correct?

Well it doesn't make sense, but it's not scummy. The fact that he's sitting here and earnestly explaining incomprehensible logic away makes me think he's town tbh.

Regarding Draz

I coached Drazak in two newbie games, so I feel I should say something about his meta/playstyle. Drazak got mislynched in both his games (pretty early) for lurkiness/wishy-washyness as town. Nothing he's done is alignment indicative so far. I will say he's shown much more interest in this game than his previous games FWIW. Nothing to make a read on him yet.

On October 20 2012 13:16 austinmcc wrote:

You say you asked because it would make him less likely to fakeclaim later in game. But you asked only him. Why would you ask only drazak, in order to make him uncomfortable with fakeclaiming later, if you didn't think he was scum and had no more reason to suspect he'd be fakeclaiming then anyone else?

That's why I'm asking. The question sounds dumb, and I expect your answer to be "No, he had the same 2/9 chance as anyone." It just makes your explanation...still weird.

On October 20 2012 13:30 Hapahauli wrote:


The point that people are trying to make is that it makes no difference. Scum aren't going to be deterred (or even remember) something like this. Anywho, I think it's best to agree to disagree here. It gave me a town read on you anyway so cool.

Nao off to bed - peace out folks.

On October 20 2012 13:16 austinmcc wrote:

You say you asked because it would make him less likely to fakeclaim later in game. But you asked only him. Why would you ask only drazak, in order to make him uncomfortable with fakeclaiming later, if you didn't think he was scum and had no more reason to suspect he'd be fakeclaiming then anyone else?

That's why I'm asking. The question sounds dumb, and I expect your answer to be "No, he had the same 2/9 chance as anyone." It just makes your explanation...still weird.

On October 21 2012 02:10 Hapahauli wrote:


I be like town yo. You can so take my word for it =D

+ Show Spoiler +

On October 21 2012 09:16 austinmcc wrote:
He was so wonky about waiting to vote and then weird in how he addressed not voting first that he was visible to me among the people on your case last night.

In my mind, that makes him less likely to be scum than the rest of us who took you to task for your question. If scum wanted to use that bit of time to get active and look like they were contributing, I don't expect they'd have done so by looking so weird with that vote.

On October 21 2012 09:26 austinmcc wrote:
I getcha. I agree that he sticks out amongst the action last night, one reason I wanted to ask him some followup questions about what he was doing and what he's thinking now.

On October 21 2012 09:39 drazak wrote:
I don't think DP is scum, I did however want to get him to talk, I whine and whined and whined and cried over the last gsl game, as I fell it's got one of the best flavors, and I like instant majority/parity cop. If people don't talk, it's a pretty lame game.

We also hadn't had a few people check in or discuss policy, so while hapa and I and IAMP seem to feel that voting causes discussion, I was a little nervous that the others might not feel that way.

For now, I'm going to leave my vote on him, but if things change I'll likely change again to cause discussion. Need to read the thread more and not be playing CS:GO to decide who I want to stimulate

On October 21 2012 09:45 drazak wrote:
So scum are wishywashy (if I unvoted you), but deciding to keep pressure on you is also scummy? You sir are trying to set a trap to catch a townie, not catch scum.

On October 21 2012 09:39 drazak wrote:
I don't think DP is scum, I did however want to get him to talk, I whine and whined and whined and cried over the last gsl game, as I fell it's got one of the best flavors, and I like instant majority/parity cop. If people don't talk, it's a pretty lame game.

On October 21 2012 09:39 drazak wrote:
We also hadn't had a few people check in or discuss policy, so while hapa and I and IAMP seem to feel that voting causes discussion, I was a little nervous that the others might not feel that way.

On October 21 2012 09:39 drazak wrote:
For now, I'm going to leave my vote on him, but if things change I'll likely change again to cause discussion. Need to read the thread more and not be playing CS:GO to decide who I want to stimulate

On October 21 2012 11:46 drazak wrote:
I certainly didn't call you town, I said I didn't think you ARE mafia, I have a pretty neutral read on you, I think you got a little too defensive for a townie after your initial questioning was found as illogical.

On October 21 2012 12:14 Hapahauli wrote:
ok I may or may not be sober now due to a certain college football rivalry game but w/e

I don't think Drazzzz's vote is scummy - he's voting you to generate discussion, and townies are capable of doing weird stuff like that (for those of you who have played with kush, see his filter in all his games). Plus, it's not like he's voting DP and he thinks DP is town. Big difference.

On October 21 2012 13:09 Hapahauli wrote:


Nah mafia can say stupid stuff as well. Kush said silly things as town and scum. YourHarry in his most recent scum game also spouted off some stupid things, and not just to satisfy his meta. Saying stupid things is a null-tell alone.

Howwweva, looking at Draz's defenses to his "stupid" statements seem pretty townie. He instantly and calmly responds to accusations against him. There's no hint of hesitancy or over-defensiveness at all.

On October 21 2012 13:45 drazak wrote:


There obviously is pressure on DP, he's been antsy about the vote ever since. He also thinks to think that it would fit scum motives to leave a vote on him? Haven't figured out how that works yet. You're all discussing things, and a lot of the discussion has its root cause in my vote on DP, so I'd say it's done a job well served.

##unvote DarthPunk

As far as what I said, it was brought up several times that being flip-floppy or wishy-washy is something that new scum does. We're all trying to establish town cred right now, that's all of our goals, if I was to do anything wishy-washy or flip-floppy, would I be helping myself (As town, or mafia)? I don't think I would be, but I did generate a fair amount of conversation.

On October 21 2012 13:45 drazak wrote:


There obviously is pressure on DP, he's been antsy about the vote ever since. He also thinks to think that it would fit scum motives to leave a vote on him? Haven't figured out how that works yet. You're all discussing things, and a lot of the discussion has its root cause in my vote on DP, so I'd say it's done a job well served.

##unvote DarthPunk

As far as what I said, it was brought up several times that being flip-floppy or wishy-washy is something that new scum does. We're all trying to establish town cred right now, that's all of our goals, if I was to do anything wishy-washy or flip-floppy, would I be helping myself (As town, or mafia)? I don't think I would be, but I did generate a fair amount of conversation.

On October 21 2012 14:34 Keirathi wrote:

Establishing yourself as town is at least as important as, if not more important than, good scum hunting.

On October 21 2012 22:46 Z-BosoN wrote:

Haha, you don't say, eh DP?

@marv
I don't mean for you to comment on every single thing in the game. I wouldn't have cared if you talked about my idea or not, as it already clearly didn't stick. What I wanted is comments on the main things going through my head right now, so as to consolidate my views. I don't see why your first interpretation of what I said was that I wanted you "to comment on everything in the game". Seems odd and fairly defensive.

On October 21 2012 23:12 marvellosity wrote:
lol I'm confused o.o

On October 21 2012 23:30 marvellosity wrote:
Your vote on drazak is predicated on something I don't think is lynchable for though, DP.

austin explained it well enough earlier.

On October 21 2012 23:35 marvellosity wrote:
If you weren't to lynch drazak, who would your top suspect be?

On October 21 2012 23:40 marvellosity wrote:


Right, but kush has done similar things as town, and drazak is just as 'new'.

The point austin made was that why would scum, in the space of one post, say that he doesn't think someone is mafia and then vote for them (or affirm it, I forget which). Like, if you're going to avoid ONE thing as scum, it's shit like that.

On October 21 2012 23:56 Z-BosoN wrote:
@DarthPunk
The bit I'm referring you is last game you using the "omg you are scum trying to pull a mislynch" argument you were using as a defense



Yea, if it's because of activity, then refer to my first post. I was doing the same thing you were and taking a break, but I couldn't refuse a damn invite, so right now I'm trying to balance this out with RL.
I'm pretty fucking townie though, so :/

Also, you still think drazak is scum despite what some people have said?
Main reason you find him scum is: "he thinks I'm town and yet still voted for me, correct?"

On October 22 2012 00:00 marvellosity wrote:
DP, you realise drazak has a current TL Mafia record of being mislynched Day 1 twice out of 2? As a townie he clearly does not do a sterling job of being townie.



How does a rational scum post that he wants to kill someone who isn't mafia either? Sense makes not it does not sense make.

If you want me to vote drazak, you're going to have to show me how what he's doing is speficically scummy and not just bad town. That voting thing is not it.

On October 22 2012 00:05 marvellosity wrote:
DP, is it your natural inclination, as scum, to say "let's lynch a townie!"? Or is your natural inclination to avoid saying anything like that at all costs?

On October 22 2012 00:08 marvellosity wrote:
Anyway, this whole conversation is boring

Just read through his filter and it seemed honest and sincere. I'm still leaning on the town side for him.

On October 22 2012 00:17 austinmcc wrote:

It's your natural inclination to want to lynch a townie.

Yes.

It is NOT normal for you to say "Let's lynch a townie." There's a huge difference. You say, "This guy (and I don't want to tell you this, but he's totes town) looks scummy for x and y, I think we should vote him." You do not go, "Attention town, I think this guy is townie, let's lynch him."

The vote on someone you explicitly say doesn't feel scummy is NOT good townie play. But it's NOT good scum play. Again, look at it from both sides. It's not that the vote makes no sense from a townie, it's that the vote makes no sense from either alignment. Therefore, you can't get a read off it; it's null.

On October 22 2012 00:33 Z-BosoN wrote:
@DP
I have to go with marv here. This is something he is usually very strong on, from my talks with him - and he's generally right. He will also make this assessment as both town and scum, so it's pretty sure he means it (unless for some 0.005% ungodly reason they are both scum and marv told him to say something like that or w/e).
Scum are 10x more careful about what they say, even if they are new. Remember XXVIII? Almost everyone had some sort of flip-flop looking scummy relation with kush, except for the actual scum.
Anyways, I'm null leaning townie on drazak, and I don't think we should be voting for him, at least right now.

On October 22 2012 00:39 Z-BosoN wrote:
From playing every single fucking him he's on, DP's meta seems to be pretty much like his townie one.
Or he has learned the fine art of faking his town day1 meta. Let us wait and see.
Right now I do not want to lynch either DP or Drazak. Hapa and marv will evidently have to wait (though I'm a bit weary of you both). Can't make scum reads out of iamp, austin. So, in my POV, that leaves Keir and v7 to be lynched.
v7 is certainly looking like the more juicier target. I'm not sure I want to kill him just yet before he's had a chance to defend himself. What do you guys propose?

On October 22 2012 00:41 marvellosity wrote:
Z-Bo, I love that you're wary of me and then you conclude your post with the two reads I had. Woe is me ^_^

On October 22 2012 00:57 austinmcc wrote:

It's mainly because Z-BosoN is ALWAYS scum and so he knows alignments.

On October 22 2012 01:03 Keirathi wrote:

As scum you push bullshit cases

On October 22 2012 01:07 Keirathi wrote:

I said "push" not post. Like, your case against me in Liquid City was much stronger than your case against kush, but you pushed Kush super hard.

On October 22 2012 01:08 Z-BosoN wrote:
Sniped by austin. There we are, finally. Now waiting for the two days of unforgiving tunneling from him
Hello Keirathi! How goes your scum life?
Any thoughts you would like to trouble us with?

On October 22 2012 01:10 Keirathi wrote:
Anyways, about v7:

I'm not entirely sold yet. He did the exact same thing as town in GSL 1. "Hey guys, I'll post my reads later when I get home" and then disappeared until 10 minutes before the deadline and claimed doc at the last second :o

It's a stupid thing to do, but particularly for him, I don't think that necessarily makes him scummy.

Until he comes and posts something more substantial, he's a null'ish read, for me.

On October 22 2012 11:38 vaderseven wrote:
I have time I said I would make it work. Day 1 reads are pretty far fetched pre first flip and I DO say that with alot of exp.

On October 22 2012 12:28 drazak wrote:
ok, from recent times I saw giving a better explaination of my read on vader and my scummiest atm.

V7 disappeared for forever, with no activity, explains it away with work, but if he was going to have work issues like this, why did he accept the invite? At first I voted for him just to get him to talk, tbh there was a vote count between when I started writing the post and when I posted it, I thought there were 2 votes on him, not 3, or I probably wouldn't have voted. When he finally came back, he started claiming that you can't make reads D1? What? 50 games of mafia and you can't make or force reads on D1? Not sure I grok here. Want to see what he says when he wakes up but he's not going to be around for awhile.

I feel like keir is probably a little scummy, he over-reacted a bit when accused, which is ok, but then he says I'm being scummy, and then his next post... defends me? Not sure I understood that, while contradicting yourself is scummy, I'm not sure why you'd do it. You're agressively defensive and then cover all of your over reactions by saying you'll flip out over it, what? You should be home by now, not sure why you think threatening to flip out helps defend your over-reactions, not sure why you'd say that.

On October 22 2012 12:44 Keirathi wrote:

First: no, I'm not home yet. Probably. Another hour or so.

Second: where did I attack you, then defend you in my next post?

You have it backwards: I defended you first, then started attacking you based on your explanations to what the other people were accusing you of.

Also, does aggressively defending myself make me scum? If so, why? Why not just a frustrated townie? Explain your thought process, please.

On October 04 2012 14:45 Keirathi wrote:

Not several people. Just kush. Because I thought kush was town based on his demeanor, but his voting and play was distinctly anti-town. I spent a lot of time trying to make him see that. But I should have just shut up and let him play stupidly? Okay.


Nothing I can really say about that. It's pretty true. After questioning KJ, I felt comfortable in my scum read of him. So I spent the rest of my time questioning other people and berating kush.



What you probably didn't pick up on just by reading my filter (or maybe intentionally misrepresenting?), is the timing of my posts. Go back and look at my last post on day 1. It was 9 hours before the deadline (and 32 hours before my next post). That's because I took an unplanned trip out of town and didn't have internet. My vote might have been meaningless at the end of the day, but when I left it wasn't (KJ had the majority). There was literally nothing I could have done because I didn't have internet access to keep up with the game.




ToutEstChaos justified his vote too. Why is the fact that I did it scummier than the fact that he did it?

Also, the "Damnit, I'm slow" comment was because, when I first read the daypost, no one had commented on the reason Risen had died, nor voted marv yet. So I quoted Risen's death, then started trying to find the post where Risen had said to kill marv when he died. By the time I had finished, Tout had already beat me to the explanation. Basically you're saying that it would have been townier for me to first vote marv, 10 minutes after the day post, with 0 explanation. I don't buy that. It would be like the people who took flak for hopping on Matt without explanation in LVII after his Nosy Neighbor claim.


This is reasonable, but a question: have you read my scum game (GSL Open Mini Mafia 1) for reference? I mean, sure I'm aware that I played a reasonably "good" scum game in that, so if I wanted to play differently I could. But would I really go for the extreme opposite end of the spectrum? From "good" scum, to terrible and easily caught?

Anyways, I wouldn't blame anyone for wanting to lynch me tomorrow. I lost some of my interest after having to catch up with 24+ hours of two different games.

On October 05 2012 00:13 Keirathi wrote:
The point in making them is for you to do a little research yourself. Seriously. Go look through my scum game. If you still think my mentality is the same, then I deserve the vote, and I'll do whatever I can before I die to clear up my thoughts.

On October 06 2012 03:05 Keirathi wrote:

There's literally no way to refute that. You're 100% right, I've been unmotivated to put much effort into this game since 1) I missed ~30 hours of the day, and 2) we had a confirmed scum. Hell, I would probably vote for me tomorrow in your shoes. And that's not "martyring", its just the truth that I've done nothing to prove my towniness.

But, I wasn't lying. I will scour the game and give my thoughts sometime soon. Hopefully before the day post, since I don't have any plans when I get off work this afternoon.

On October 21 2012 01:47 Keirathi wrote:

What? I made it perfectly clear what my opinion on it was. It was a bullshit post, and I called it that, and wanted him to explain.

I was not, and am not, going to make any decisions about his alignment based on that. He at least provided a plausible explanation, even if it does feel a little "made up after-the-fact" because someone called him out on it. I don't think it makes him scummy, nor do I think it makes him town. What, exactly, is the point of saying "Yea, he's still neutral"?

On October 22 2012 06:28 Keirathi wrote:

I guess I can respond to this since I'm around for a bit before I have to go sit with my grandpa again.

I'm not going to vote for something that I'm not pretty convinced of. His answer to the questioning going on in thread was way more important than what he actually said that I called bullshit on.

Also, FOS is a stupid term that I have never nor will ever use. Calling a post bullshit and making a pressure "case" is as close as you'll ever get to seeing an FOS from me.

And, about not following up: it was friday night. I went out for the night. Fucking sue me. (And yes, marv, I am being aggressively defensive. If people really want to lynch me for that then I'm going to flip the fuck out.)

On October 22 2012 13:16 drazak wrote:





Darth ^

On October 22 2012 20:54 marvellosity wrote:


This might be one of the most infuriating things I've ever read in mafia.

Douchebag who does ZERO scumhunting calls others lazy scumhunters. Fuck you.

On October 22 2012 21:10 marvellosity wrote:
screw you too, DP. Mainly because I wanted to carry on being angry but you made me smile instead ^^

On October 23 2012 00:20 Z-BosoN wrote:
I'm onboard with austin, especially after v7's response. He did a very poor job at making a contribution. Said he would read thread and reply and so far has done naught.
He's fitting the category of "A liability who has a fair chance of popping scum" and I'm up to kill him right now.

On October 23 2012 00:57 austinmcc wrote:

The him here is in reference to v7?

On October 23 2012 01:01 iamperfection wrote:

um what are you saying here?

On October 23 2012 01:03 iamperfection wrote:

so you don't want to lynch him because zbos wants to lynch him?

On October 23 2012 02:42 Hapahauli wrote:


^ Good point on the meta
Though I still would like to wait for his defense.

On October 14 2012 08:23 Z-BosoN wrote:

Yea that's making me uneasy on who to vote.
The biggest tagline of my voting on ShiaoPi is being useless with a fair possibility of being scum.
The biggest tagline of me wanting to vote DP is that I actually find him scum.

On October 14 2012 08:14 Z-BosoN wrote:
DP is my top scumread, I've been trying to push him since forever, but no one seems to find him scummy, so =/

On October 23 2012 03:30 Z-BosoN wrote:
Also, I don't get why people are thinking I'm sheeping. First of all, there's not really much to say on v7.

On October 23 2012 10:13 iamperfection wrote:
i did not do that on purpose that actually just happened.

On October 23 2012 10:24 marvellosity wrote:
iamp, living up to his name like a baws.

DP, do you think this post is faked then?

It's only a little thing but his "go away, shoo" makes me think he's town. If he was playing the angry scum act, that would be so out of place. I'm inclined to think that Z-Bo is town and just derped with what he splurged on the thread in his hammer vote.

The meta you're bringing up - you're neglecting to take into account that the stuff you're quoting was like Day 4 in a full-sized normal vs Day 1 in a mini. This leads to significant differences in the sureness of reads and what someone pushes. I for one know I play significantly more strongly in a Day 4 than a Day 1 (well. later in the game let's say. normally i'm dead)

On October 23 2012 10:36 kushm4sta wrote:
loving all the kush references

On October 23 2012 10:42 iamperfection wrote:

why

On October 23 2012 10:45 iamperfection wrote:

well i said i thought he was scum so if you have reason he is not that would interest me.

On October 23 2012 10:46 marvellosity wrote:
Why would he moderate himself as scum? Those dots don't connect. "Go away, shoo" is so offbeat.

The main reason I think Z-Bo is probably town is actually from this post:



This was extremely close to my thoughts when I saw Kei go at him. The fact he was thinking the same thing as me is a good sign. The tell is made softer by the fact he was the one under attack (i.e. if anyone else had said it I'd find it a really strong town tell), but I nodded as I read it, so *shrug*. I'd say he's town.

On October 23 2012 10:51 marvellosity wrote:
DP dear, don't be so predictable. The reasoning behind it.

On October 23 2012 10:56 marvellosity wrote:
Also, if you speak to me like that again DP, I'll slap you in the face.

<3

On October 23 2012 13:08 Keirathi wrote:

So, I've been thinking about this a lot. While I agree with your premise, I just don't agree that the hammer was suboptimal play IF Z-Bo is scum and was worried about dying. Its hard to say whether he was actually worried about dying or not, but I do think he was the second most likely possibility of being lynched, at least with the given information, behind v7.

So, yea, I think he did the optimal scum thing in both cases: 1) giving himself another day and hopefully letting people talk themselves out of his lynch, and 2) attempting to discredit the person who attacked his hammer reasoning.


Anyways, I still don't think a town ZB magically creates a top 2 scum read on v7 out of nowhere like that. The timing was just too convenient. I was pretty convinced even before his reasoning for hammering, and that was just the icing on the cake.

On October 24 2012 07:37 Keirathi wrote:
@marv:


How do you know you're having a bad game? Because of the vader mislynch? What if I'm scum, and you've been right all along? That defeatist attitude is not something that I would expect from you, tbh.

And, a non-rhetorical question: you were in GSL 1. v7 early in day1 made small chit-chat, then did nothing but talk about Risen. Day2, he said "I'll be back later to give reads" and then disappeared until 10 minutes before the deadline. Did that never even give you pause here?

The only people you pursued at all with any kind of scum read day 1 were me and vader, while throwing around a bunch of town reads. That was partly what I was referring to when I said this (besides the joking about the apology):

In my experience, when town marv only has 1 or 2 reads, he feels damn sure about them (Jingle in Mad Men, Palmar in Rock Band, etc). And he's not usually (ever?) wrong. Town marv is occasionally wrong (gasp!), but when he is, he's wavering around a lot through different reads. Which just doesn't feel like what's been happening here.

On October 24 2012 09:49 Hapahauli wrote:
@ DP

Please read this:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=376602&currentpage=37#724

...then comment
...then vote marv

On October 24 2012 09:53 drazak wrote:
Wow, that post, I skimmed it before, but reading it again,I'm really starting to believe it, it's pretty comprehensive and those signs are pretty exact. I think if we lynch marv and he's scum, whomever the medic is has to save hapa because that wouldn't be a bus, but if marv isn't scum, maybe lynch hapa the next day?

On October 24 2012 10:08 Hapahauli wrote:
I don't think that post is scummy DP.

Probably because I still think there's no sane way that marv flips town in this one.

On October 24 2012 10:14 Hapahauli wrote:
Well under the assumption that marv's town, Drazak plopped down a quick vote on someone he finds scummy. I suspect that you're finding this bit scummy:



...which I don't see as scummy given that he talks about the possibility that marv flips scum as well. It's just an overall part of his analysis methinks.

On October 24 2012 10:25 drazak wrote:
DP bro, sorry that I had a life and that it snuck up on me, wish I didn't have to be afk for as long as I did, but with my laptop giving me issues I have to be at my desktop to post, I read a little bit of the thread on my phone but I had to reread it to make sure I had it when I was on my pc. while you may classify voting for marv as "sheeping" look at his filter, he's got no good defense to hapa's accusation, he says that hapa is cherry picking cases, but if he is then there should be ample evidence to the contrary regarding his meta.

On October 24 2012 10:31 Hapahauli wrote:


Since when did you have a scumread on iamperfection? Or are you talking about me and drazak?

On October 24 2012 10:45 drazak wrote:
I'm reading the thread DP, but I don't get how his connection makes sense, if I'm scum because of those posts, but they're the same kinds of posts that I make in town games, how am I scum this game? None of that even makes sense, which is why I don't understand. If that's not enough reason to think I'm town, I'm not sure what else I have to do, this is a small game, but I have town reads on Hapa and DP for how agressive hapa has been, and how willing to look at different players and play reactionarily that he's been. I also have a pretty good town read on austin because of how he's been playing, also the fac that nobody was lynched last night. while it may be WIFOM, if I was mafia I'd probably have lynched Austin last night, someone probably saved him (or maybe hapa or DP, but if I were a medic, austin would probably be my #1 save)

On October 24 2012 10:54 drazak wrote:
It does? I've never thought about it that way. As someone who's played siginificantly more irl mafia than forum mafia, speculating about NKs is pretty much half of your day logic. Who kills who, who knows who is a good player, etc. That's just how I think still, not sure if anyone else plays much IRL mafia.

On October 24 2012 11:37 drazak wrote:
So I changed your mind DP?

@Austin

I really really don't like the hammer, and I don't find his scum hunting that good, but to be fair, my scum hunting hasn't been that great either, I kind of feel like he's trying, but he hasn't sold me on anything, I think the hammer is something scum might do, and then he's allayed suspicion and isn't being investigated that much today. I really think if marv flips scum he'd be someone to look at as the other part of the team.

On October 24 2012 22:12 iamperfection wrote:
alright so i have fresh mind and i just want to say something about marv that some of you guys might not understand. If there's one thing about marv that you might not know is that regardless of alignment he loves winning. Go look at rockband when palmar pissed him off he didn't whine like a baby he came back and tried to figure thing out after 1 hour. He is super dedicated to winning and his refusal to try to figure things out yesterday is very telling.

------------------------------------------

With that said i had something stuck out to me when i was re reading some filters

Darthpunk



after my second time reading this i just want to know how did you know you were going to live? because you in fact waited untill the day and not before the flip to post your thoughts. What gives.

Also what irony if i am in fact right.

On October 25 2012 05:47 marvellosity wrote:
I think one of the only things I've seen on me with relation to this game was how 'sure' I seemed on vader. But from my original case on vader to when I hammered - there was a long time in between. Mainly because I wanted to get discussion going, give town more time to discuss things, give vader time to post and redeem himself.

On October 25 2012 09:15 austinmcc wrote:
Z-Bo and DP (as noted ^) haven't been active since marv posted, I'm holding off to give them a chance to speak their minds if there's anything crazy they want to say.

Otherwise, I'm willing to hammer.

On October 25 2012 09:54 iamperfection wrote:


Why did you think you were going to live and why was your reaction to call me stupid.

You of all people should know calling me stupid is not the right response if your town.

On October 25 2012 10:15 Keirathi wrote:

You're definitely not one of the weakest players in this game. But, you would probably be shot behind town marv and/or town Hapa. Maybe me, too, depending on if marv is scum or not (in general). But, I completely agree, the likelihood of you being alive today was higher than the likelihood of you being dead.

On October 25 2012 10:22 austinmcc wrote:

DarthPunk for tabloid headline writer of the year.

Yes, you are correct. Marv didn't hammer v7. I don't think you can take things as far as you did though.

On October 25 2012 10:32 austinmcc wrote:

The hammer into followup play of Z-BosoN gives me a sizeable town read on him. It's going to take a lot more than "marv made a mistake for this reason and not that reason" to get me on board with scumZ-BosoN.

Where are you on drazak right now?

On October 25 2012 10:45 iamperfection wrote:

i knew this lame as excuse was familiar



Guess the alignment

+ Show Spoiler +

I dont think a town player should assume he is going to live and his remark here instantly reminded me of liquid city. Even if its true it has the same tone and feel as liquid city.

I think dp is the final scum.

On October 25 2012 10:57 Keirathi wrote:

austin didn't vote marv either

I still think austin is town though.

On October 25 2012 11:06 Keirathi wrote:
@DP:

You spent way too many words replying to that. No one was going to buy into that bullshit

It's quite clear that you live in Australia and play on a different schedule.

On October 25 2012 11:19 Hapahauli wrote:
Okay I lost it for no reason at that picture

On October 25 2012 11:33 iamperfection wrote:

i disagree

On October 25 2012 11:50 iamperfection wrote:

meh they will mislynch me then lynch you.

gg no re.

On October 25 2012 12:46 Keirathi wrote:
So, I just want to comment on a few things:

First off, sorry about my lack of activity/effort for most of day 1. I'm sure you don't want to hear about my problems, but it was basically Family Hell weekend. + Show Spoiler [Short version] +

Regarding the ZB "99.9% sure" thing:


Austin hit the nail on the head, here. I'm generally fairly okay at looking town, at least past day 1 when I really get into my stride. But, I am not a leader. Never have been, don't think I ever will be. I've quite often made strong cases that have gone completely ignored because I just don't have the personality to force the issue.

So, by saying 99.9% sure that ZB was scum, I was forcing people to look at my case, look at me, look at ZB and give opinions. I don't shy away from people being suspicious of me. I generally try to say things that make me seem town, but I felt like I really had to do something because I was super suspicious of DP but didn't have the town cred to get people to care. Once people started discussing it with me, my read moved back a fair amount, although I was still suspicious of ZB until end-game

On October 26 2012 08:01 Promethelax wrote:
Not just that, we saw his crumbs, his blue tells and his everything else and still found him scummy. DP, you had a good case, I was sad you dropped it. I would have wanted him to claim outright since that would mean that mafia would be forced to kill him or if he lived I could just lynch him.

On October 26 2012 08:01 Promethelax wrote:
Not just that, we saw his crumbs, his blue tells and his everything else and still found him scummy. DP, you had a good case, I was sad you dropped it. I would have wanted him to claim outright since that would mean that mafia would be forced to kill him or if he lived I could just lynch him.

On October 26 2012 08:10 Promethelax wrote:


Right, but what I was saying is that I would want to pressure him into claiming fully. If he is scum that gives him less wiggle room and makes sure that mafia know he is medic (in case the mafia is one of those lurky/don't-read-the-thread types).

On October 26 2012 08:18 Promethelax wrote:


Exactly. I have no evidence that my way is better though. I just prefer when the super scummy dude is a prime mafia target. I don't really like power roles all that much, I value good townie green dudes > shitty scummy blue dudes

On October 26 2012 08:21 austinmcc wrote:

I thought about some of this and actually DIDN'T post it to thread.

Assuming there was a save N1, mafia could kill the medic N2 if he claimed but didn't need to. Can't protect the same target 2x in a row, so they could kill whoever they wanted dead N1 on N2, and then kill the medic N3 IF they were that concerned with the medic.

Either way, there's a confirmed townie living til N3 (Either the medic or his protect). Either way, both the medic and the protect are dead after N3, but the outed medic can't affect NKs so long as mafia still wants to kill the N1 target and the medic over other choices.