EPT
Basically you hit on my exact feelings, but I'm on my phone and much harder to go back through multiple games and quote multiple things.
GSL Mini Mafia III - Page 5
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
Basically you hit on my exact feelings, but I'm on my phone and much harder to go back through multiple games and quote multiple things. | ||
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
On October 24 2012 08:35 marvellosity wrote: I read the fucking case. I don't have massive emotional over-reactions every time I play town (see palmar omgus) nor do I very often play in a game with smurfs where I'm devoid of a lot of information I normally have. How am I disinterested?? I don't think you're disinterested in the game, but you have been less interested in scum hunting than you normally are (yea yea, I'm being a hypocrite. Doesn't mean I'm wrong though.) Hapa was right, as town you are all over te place unless you have a damn strong read. When you aren't dead set on someone, you waver around jumping on little things until you're satisfied that that person is town, even if that person isnt your strongest scum read. | ||
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
On October 24 2012 08:47 marvellosity wrote: Taking out your usual 'meta', how easy did you find it to make progress this game? You made a few posts during the DP thing when I was away, but apart from that you struggled to make anything happen.Can you not see my perspective ?? Of course I can understand having difficulty making up your mind in this game. But the way you tried to make your decision is just so different than the way you normally go about making that kind of decision. | ||
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
On October 24 2012 08:56 marvellosity wrote: fuck off, hapa. Why do you get to be overaggressive defensive but I don't  | ||
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
Marv has moved pretty far up my scum reads. Maybe even higher than ZB at this point. I don't want to hammer tonight, but I do expect his long defense that he promised when I wake up. Also a quick question marv: Do you still think I am scum? Maybe me and Hapa for coming up with the exact same case at nearly the exact same time? You obviously think Hapa is scum, but if not me, who is your second candidate? Hell, if you still think I am your second candidate, who is your third and why? | ||
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
On October 24 2012 14:52 Keirathi wrote: Bleh I started writing a bunch of stuff then almost fell asleep. Trying to think after drinking isn't quit as easy as I was hoping Marv has moved pretty far up my scum reads. Maybe even higher than ZB at this point. I don't want to hammer tonight, but I do expect his long defense that he promised when I wake up. Also a quick question marv: Do you still think I am scum? Maybe me and Hapa for coming up with the exact same case at nearly the exact same time? You obviously think Hapa is scum, but if not me, who is your second candidate? Hell, if you still think I am your second candidate, who is your third and why? EBWOP: I ask because I think you've given (at least minor) town reads to every other person in the game aside from Hapa and I. And I know that I'm not scum. So if you're not, and I got lynched and flip town, who would you go after then? | ||
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
On October 24 2012 15:13 DarthPunk wrote: Keir. f your still around. Who is your top candidate for marv's partner if he is scum? Haven't settled for one between ZB/Draz/iamp for now. | ||
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
Anyways, I really need to be in bed. I'll be around in the morning. | ||
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
Unless mafia didn't send in night actions, ofc. After LC I can't discount that : p | ||
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
On October 24 2012 09:03 marvellosity wrote: Mostly true. I leant town on quite a few players. The closest comparison game is Dwarf Fortress, where I made 2 votes all day - first on Custos for not caring about town and secondly on prplhz for not caring about town. I thought a lot about the other flavour of the day in that game (forumite), decided I didn't want to lynch him, and then did remarkably little to stop him getting lynched. My last scum game, Liquid City - how many people did I express suspicions/scumreads on? Many. Let's meta my last scum game and this game then? Its funny you mention DF, because that was one of the games I was thinking about while writing up my thoughts, since I am obviously a bit biased towards it and Can't Believe because we were both town in each of those. One huge difference between DF and this game, from what I remember, is that yea, you parked your vote on prplhz for "not caring about town", while not particularly pushing for his lynch very hard. But, look at the amount of questioning you did towards other people. You literally made EVERYONE comment on the Forumite case. I just don't see that kind of determination in getting the answer right in this game. You got a few people to comment on me, but mostly you just kept dialogue running with whatever was going on, throwing out your own comments but not really digging into the people who started those topics. Also, you gave almost NO town reads in DF iirc. Sciberbia was the most townie motherfucker in the game by far (hence why I protted him n1 over you ), and I don't remember you ever even calling him town. You may have had town reads, but you got suspicious of nearly everybody at one point or another in day1 for stances they took or something dumb they said, which I just don't see here.Anyways I would appreciate it if you would answer me question a few posts up. | ||
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
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Keirathi
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
On October 25 2012 01:38 Hapahauli wrote: Morning folks Yeah it's not so much your play - it's associative. Bussing is horrendously risky with only 2 scum-members, and if marv is scum, I doubt he'd spend so much time putting heat on you throughout D1 and D2 - ESPECIALLY since you were a target of suspicion. That's a risky way of thinking. In GSL 1, I spent quite a lot of time being "suspicious" of prplhz, and relying on townies (mainly marv) to shut me down and keep him from getting lynched. But, I would have bussed him in a heartbeat :o | ||
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
On October 25 2012 02:09 Hapahauli wrote: Perhaps, but the problem here is that townies weren't really shutting marv down - especially early N1. I may or may not reconsider after marv flips with new analysis and all of that, but that's where I stand right now. Yea, I mean I understand what you're saying. I obviously know that I am town. But I'm okay with you NOT knowing that I am town. Marv is a tricksy fucker as scum. | ||
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
On October 25 2012 02:33 iamperfection wrote: do you guys think dp slipped? I don't think DP would have been the top choice of shot on night 1, no matter how many people had "town" reads on him. I mean, no offense to DP, he's a good player, but he's not exactly "dangerous" like Hapa or marv. It's a valid point that he was so sure that he would be alive, but I think its pretty reasonable for a town DP to assume he wouldn't be the first choice of a shot, looking at the player list. | ||
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
On October 25 2012 03:19 austinmcc wrote: I'm going to wait on marv's thoughts. In general I dislike cases that are so heavily meta-based, as (whether this one was or not) they're much more malleable than one based on play in-game. I think hapa's case does a good job of rounding up a decent (if not complete) picture of recent marv games. I think some of those games are...so dissimilar that I don't like drawing parallels to them? Clothes would be one of those. I think that the setup in Clothes is so different from a normal or semi-normal game that one's play, to some extent, would be different there than in other games. I don't think this is damning of the specific comparisons hapa drew, because you used other cases and you spoke in a lot of generalities like "trying to figure the game out" and "moving votes around" (my quotes, not yours). Those seem more mindset-oriented characteristics that you'd port from game to game than something that wouldn't carry over at all. All of that is just...saying what's on my mind. I still think you've pulled plenty of comparable games that using Clothes doesn't kill the case for me. That's all very bland and kind of wishy washy. I just...ugh. I hate all this meta stuff and I keep finding myself wanting to distrust ALL meta cases/reads, because that seems easier than trying to filter through the times someone has properly used meta. I'm swamped at work today, and will continue to be until next W and the end of the month. I'm gonna get through marv's filter again when I can, and try to pin down some thoughts on his actual play this game. I know I dislike the way he went about voting v7/finding v7's return scummy, but I'm not entirely sure as to whether that's because he and I disagreed on whether the return posts were townie or scummy, or whether I actually find the disagreement ITSELF scummy (would is this another point of view a townie can take, or is that point of view itself scummy). Otherwise, I'm just going to wait for whatever he's going to post, and this evening I can devote some time to the game. I still am not sure of your alignment, but ... (1) we shouldn't be having to ask so much for your reads (2) why did you find marv's play this game neutral before hapa's case? Meta is a valuable tool, when used correctly. Hapa's case is definitely "using it correctly". Not that he's necessarily right, but I came to the exact same conclusions, for the same reasoning, at the same time Hapa did, so I'm inclined to believe that we're not BOTH wrong. I mean, earlier in the game, marv explicitly stated he was paranoid about how solid a grasp I have on meta in general, and could have been using that to alter my scum play to be more similar to my town play. I'm not sure if you read my meta analysis of marv in LC, where I concluded that kush was town? Marv specifically pm'd me about that later, saying it was one of the few things that anyone has EVER said that has made him actually step back and think about how he plays this game. I know I say it a lot, but I really have spent a ton of time talking to marv about games, delving into the way he thinks, why he does certain things, etc. I'm certainly no expert on him, but I believe I have a decent grasp of his play, in general. | ||
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
+ Show Spoiler [For Reference] + On October 09 2012 15:32 Keirathi wrote: Yea, its WIFOM. But I've been thinking about kush a lot, and VE jumping in and voting for him made me start thinking about it. Here's my current train of thought (and yes, before you say it, its still WIFOM, but I believe it actually makes some sense). Kush comes under pretty heavy pressure day 1, and marv immediately jumps in to defend him pretty damn hard. Also, kush is the kind of player that's always an easy lynch, so as scum he would at some point be a liability to a scum marv that plans to survive until the end game (and yes, that is always marv's goal. He prides himself of being "unlynchable"). So, lets say it gets to that point and Kush flips scum. Now, because of marv's hard defense, marv looks pretty damn bad. Say what you want about being WIFOM, but scum marv almost never does things that make him look bad. Go read basically any scum game that he has ever played. He busses players that will be a liability to him surviving, and otherwise distances himself from his teammates. So, the only way for marv not to look bad for hard-defending scum Kush is for him to plan for Kush to never get flipped. And I'm just not sure even marv is capable of that. Which leads me to the conclusion that either 1) kush is town, or 2) marv planned to have a "change of heart" and bus kush at some point. Based on marv's past games as scum, I think (1) is more likely than (2). I kept calling it WIFOM, but in hindsight it wasn't really WIFOM. It was just purely a meta read. And damn accurate. | ||
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
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