|
On October 22 2012 12:28 drazak wrote:
ok, from recent times I saw giving a better explaination of my read on vader and my scummiest atm.
V7 disappeared for forever, with no activity, explains it away with work, but if he was going to have work issues like this, why did he accept the invite? At first I voted for him just to get him to talk, tbh there was a vote count between when I started writing the post and when I posted it, I thought there were 2 votes on him, not 3, or I probably wouldn't have voted. When he finally came back, he started claiming that you can't make reads D1? What? 50 games of mafia and you can't make or force reads on D1? Not sure I grok here. Want to see what he says when he wakes up but he's not going to be around for awhile.
I feel like keir is probably a little scummy, he over-reacted a bit when accused, which is ok, but then he says I'm being scummy, and then his next post... defends me? Not sure I understood that, while contradicting yourself is scummy, I'm not sure why you'd do it. You're agressively defensive and then cover all of your over reactions by saying you'll flip out over it, what? You should be home by now, not sure why you think threatening to flip out helps defend your over-reactions, not sure why you'd say that.
First: no, I'm not home yet. Probably. Another hour or so.
Second: where did I attack you, then defend you in my next post?
You have it backwards: I defended you first, then started attacking you based on your explanations to what the other people were accusing you of.
Also, does aggressively defending myself make me scum? If so, why? Why not just a frustrated townie? Explain your thought process, please.
|
@DP:
The difference is that you had a well presented, logical, solid case. It was strong enough that it probably could have gotten me lynched, but it would have been over something worth being lynched for. The cases against me this game mostly boil down to "I expect better" or "he could be fucking with his meta", which is lazy scumhunting and a terrible reason to lynch me. Which is why I've spent so much time questioning the people who keep limping in to the case against me.
|
@Hapa:
Nope, nothing preventing me. Any read I give at this point, people like you are going to just say "God, that feels forced because I had to specifically ask for it." No thanks. I'll just keep questioning people and make up my mind when they respond.
I felt basically the same way in Aperture 2 on day 1. People pressured me for it. I settled on a "read" with really weak reasoning because people kept badgering me, and I didn't like either of the major bandwagons (iamperfection, and...Drazerk? I think?). People still kept pressuring me.
I'm not keen to repeat the experience, because it was super frustrating. So until I feel pretty damn confident about something, I'm happy with poking at people and refining my own thoughts about them.
|
Anyways, I'm going to bed too. I'm exhausted, and I've only made it back through half of the thread in my re-read. Promised posts coming tomorrow when hopefully I actually have some time at home on the computer.
|
On October 22 2012 22:47 iamperfection wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2012 11:28 Keirathi wrote:On October 22 2012 11:16 iamperfection wrote:On October 22 2012 11:11 vaderseven wrote:On October 22 2012 11:00 iamperfection wrote:
I cant believe if you have read the thread like you said you had you cant come up with anything besides draz a little scummy
You now move from my scum category to super scum category.
come back like hapa said with something or don't come back at all.
You are grasping at straws. I read the thread on my phone and its day 1 and you think what I have posted the past like hour males me super scum? yes i think refusal to give reads on players is bullshit and its scum behavior. Same goes for you Keirathi. It's super fucking easy to say "that's scum behavior!" But is it? What would you say if you lynched me and I flip town? "Oh, he was playing scummy. He deserved it!"? i would hold a candle light vigil in your honor if you flipped town. i think its a moot point to keep hammering this point. you even said yourself its a terrible mindset that has gotten you lynched in the past. also its concerning that you called out for it in gsl I. Show nested quote +On September 07 2012 00:48 Keirathi wrote:
Really marv? You know me better than that.
You question me every game for not taking hard stances day 1. My playstyle hasn't changed and isn't going to. I form opinions slowly and deliberately. you were scum remember. Me representing the town i am asking you to change nay begging you to change. If you are scum continue i have no problem pushing a lynch on you at this point. Shape up or die.
I said it's *ALMOST* gotten me lynched. I've never actually been lynched in any of my games.
And what does me being scum when I said that have to do with anything? It's a pretty accurate assessment of my town play. In fact, in that game, I took a hard stance early as scum, something I've never actually done as town.
Yea, "just change your playstyle!" they said. If it was that easy, I wouldn't be in this predicament would I?
|
On October 22 2012 20:54 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2012 13:40 Keirathi wrote:
@DP:
The difference is that you had a well presented, logical, solid case. It was strong enough that it probably could have gotten me lynched, but it would have been over something worth being lynched for. The cases against me this game mostly boil down to "I expect better" or "he could be fucking with his meta", which is lazy scumhunting and a terrible reason to lynch me. Which is why I've spent so much time questioning the people who keep limping in to the case against me. This might be one of the most infuriating things I've ever read in mafia. Douchebag who does ZERO scumhunting calls others lazy scumhunters. Fuck you.
On October 22 2012 20:58 marvellosity wrote:
The case boiled down to its absolute simplest form, if you'd like that, is this:
who benefits from doing jack shit for town? town or scum?
Right.
There's a very simple solution: vote me if you think that I am scum.
And get off your damn high horse. Zero scumhunting? What do you call the questions that I've been asking people? Picking daisies? They all serve a very specific purpose in HUNTING FOR SCUM based on the responses to them. Plenty of people have been fine just limping into the case against me because me and v7 have been the only real topics of discussion, so I've been questioning them to try to get them to explain their rationale more.
Everyone has been fine threatening me with "Change or die!", "Share your reads or die!", etc. Who has actually engaged me and asked me questions aside from "What are your reads?" though? The only person who has seemed genuinely interested in figuring out my alignment was you, and maybe Hapa a bit.
+ Show Spoiler +Anyways I'm dealing with a bunch of IRL shit that came up after I accepted the invite and has me upset. Then the game has me frustrated because I haven't been able to really put a lot of effort into the game. I literally still haven't read back through day 1 because I just haven't had time. I'm sorry town, but I'm doing the best that I can right now.
|
On October 23 2012 00:16 austinmcc wrote:
btw, apart from my normal paranoia, this is one thing that makes me suspicious of marv. I know he doesn't like to play setup games, but I would expect townmarv to be a little more bloodthirsty, be pushing someone a little more, and not be willing to play infinite D1 pattycake.
Am I the only one with this thought? Are people just worried to type it out because "let's lynch someone NOW, instead of later with more information" feels like it might be anti-town?
It's actually give me a bit of a town read on him. Townmarv can be pretty indecisive at times, when scummarv usually isn't. For instance, Can't Believe and Dwarf Fortress. In Can't Believe, he waffled around a ton right at the deadline. In Dwarfs, he was all over the place, and had very little to say about his actual scum read vote.
|
On October 23 2012 01:13 DarthPunk wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2012 01:01 iamperfection wrote:On October 23 2012 00:36 DarthPunk wrote:On October 23 2012 00:20 Z-BosoN wrote:
I'm onboard with austin, especially after v7's response. He did a very poor job at making a contribution. Said he would read thread and reply and so far has done naught.
He's fitting the category of "A liability who has a fair chance of popping scum" and I'm up to kill him right now. And now I don't want to lynch him at all. um what are you saying here? That ZB just doesn't say things like that as town. That is the kind of thing I say as scum. I already had a bad feeling about ZB because there are a couple of town tells of his that he hasn't conformed to this game. I have played in his last 4 games. And this just doesn't fit with how he deals with 'liabilities' Be it grush or BM or Kush or Shady. I have never EVER seen this argument from him in regards to far worse players in far worse situations. Town ZB requires MUCH more than that to lynch someone and usually doesn't like lynching 'liabilities' or Lurkers at all. He is MUCH more likely to make an alternative case of his own than to go along with the prevailing sentiment. Also his play this game has been eerily similar to his scum meta from XXIV. He even admits it. And blames it on activity. But he has still been fairly active. So that is no reason for ZB to be playing to his scum meta. That is why I don't want to lynch V7 anymore.
I just went back through Z-Bo's filter because of this post.
On October 21 2012 22:16 Z-BosoN wrote:@Townatm I don't have any real suspect that I'd be willing to place my vote on. I'm leaning townie on Drazak and DarthPunk. Not too sure on Hapahauli, his play right now seems a bit passive compared to his usual self. Feels like he's using the same tell over and over again (i.e. posting something than disappearing) and being a little uncharacteristically calm with his pressuring. My top suspicions, nevertheless, are iamperfection, Keirathi and v7.I will not be placing my vote on v7 yet, at least until he has a chance to defend himself and make any sort of contribution. I feel his absence is not necessarily alignment-indicative, for now. @marvHow has Keir not been receiving attention, I spent quite some time tunneling him. I'll point this out once again, which is something I'm finding important and would like to see your comment on. When I questioned him about his lack of follow-up, he mentioned his IRL excuses, which was already perfectly fair, but he felt the need to add this: Show nested quote +On October 21 2012 01:47 Keirathi wrote:On October 21 2012 01:34 Z-BosoN wrote:Well I got sniped. Anyways, On October 21 2012 01:18 Keirathi wrote:On October 21 2012 00:46 Hapahauli wrote:
Yah I'm a bit surprised at how little Kei has contributed so far. Early D1 caveats of course, but I always had the impression that his town play was very active on the early days.
It was friday night. I went out. I wasn't expecting the game to start yesterday, and I wasn't going to change my plans anyways. Also, that's such a blanket statement (and not even necessarily a true one...I've not been super active early in like half of my games), that has absolutely nothing to do with my alignment. I was "very active" in the early game as scum too. So what was the point of even saying that? On October 20 2012 23:58 Z-BosoN wrote:
Right now I'm more interested in Keirathi. Made this one easy-to-make post, and didn't really stick around, made no other comments. This seems to me like too easy of a post for someone like Keir to make, and doesn't seem genuine.
What the fuck does that even mean? "Someone like Keir"? And also, explain how that post isn't genuine, please. Darth's post, pre-explanation, made absolutely zero sense, and I disagreed with him asking it. Post-explanation, it was still dumb and never going to accomplish what he said his "goal" was, but at least I understand his reasoning now. Anyways, its gameday. I'll be around off and on today, but not sitting at the computer all day. Why the overreaction? I found your post to be an useless agreement that didn't add anything, and your lack of follow-up even more suspicious. The underlined is why I didn't find it to be genuine, given that there were a string of posts after your own which dealt with it. I fully agree that it was dumb, but you left no opinion of it. That's just saying something and drawing no conclusions from it, and even worse, not looking like you want to draw any conclusions. I can be wrong here, but your post to me didn't feel genuine and I think that makes you suspicious. What? I made it perfectly clear what my opinion on it was. It was a bullshit post, and I called it that, and wanted him to explain. I was not, and am not, going to make any decisions about his alignment based on that. He at least provided a plausible explanation, even if it does feel a little "made up after-the-fact" because someone called him out on it. I don't think it makes him scummy, nor do I think it makes him town. What, exactly, is the point of saying "Yea, he's still neutral"? Which, to me, feels like an attempt of an additional excuse. Also, I find it interesting that you did not mention iamperfection, who's championed his first vote on DarthPunk and made no further comment on it, which I'm finding increasingly scummy - as Liquid City iamperfection was much more active and helpful. @KeirathiI will leave you alone for now, in regards to the above. Anyways, a question on the bolded part: Show nested quote +On October 21 2012 13:28 Keirathi wrote:I don't really like Draz's explanation either. On October 21 2012 09:45 drazak wrote:
So scum are wishywashy (if I unvoted you), but deciding to keep pressure on you is also scummy? You sir are trying to set a trap to catch a townie, not catch scum. First, unvoting isn't being "wishy-washy", assuming you explain yourself. But hell, its not like you even unvoted, nor was DP calling you out FOR unvoting. He was calling you out for leaving your vote on someone who you ostensibly don't believe is scum. It's not a "trap", because he hasn't said anything about you unvoting being scummy to begin with. Voting for someone isn't inherently scummy, obviously, but leaving your vote on someone that you don't have a scum read on is certainly on the scummy side (although, I will admit, that I've seen townies do it too. That doesn't make the action itself less scummy, just that townies can, at times, play scummily). Second, putting pressure isn't scummy either. But, you're not actually putting pressure on him. You just parked a vote there and haven't done anything with it. THAT is scummy. What is the point of your vote right now? Does this mean you also have a scum read on iamperfection? He basically did the same thing, and went awol.
This is the first time Z-Bo mentioned v7 at all. But suddenly he is one of his top scum reads? There wasn't even any reasoning there, just "Yep, v7 is someone I would want to lynch!".
But look at the timing of it. He came in after there were already 3 votes on v7 with that statement. Still no reasoning of his own. That's fishy as fuck.
On October 22 2012 05:19 Z-BosoN wrote:Show nested quote +Hapahauli wrote:As for my "easy reads", I still stand by them. I like taking stances early in the game. Sometimes I'm wrong about them (actually I was really wrong about DP in mafia LVII while I was alive), but it's a nice way to get things going. Also, I really stand by my town read on DP this game (he has 5 pages of filter already FFS). Starting to waver on Draz a bit due to his recent inactivity. b) I have no problems with your town read on DP. I agree with them. I don't understand why you felt the need to bring this up. I don't think I mentioned that I was troubled with you taking stances early on. My trouble was with the "easy reads on scum, and I think this was quite clear when I mentioned v7, the "easy read" I'm referring to. (Sorry I edited the formatting a bit)
Here he says he is calling Hapa out for the "easy read" on v7, when that's EXACTLY what he did. In fact, he didn't (and still hasn't) give any reasoning of his own. Just sheeped onto the current bandwagon.
That's enough for me.
##Vote: Z-BosoN
|
On October 23 2012 03:14 austinmcc wrote:
Keirathi:
I wrote some stuff here but it was super wishy-washy and it's just my thoughts that don't go anywhere. So instead, could you update your read on iamperfection, in long-form?
He's not being talked about, but you said he felt "kind of town" and noted that you felt confident in meta-reading him. Could you just blabber on in a post or two about what read you get from him based on his play this game and based on meta?
It's pretty easy.
On October 20 2012 10:01 iamperfection wrote:Im all for using votes to apply pressure and we don't have to worry about someone doing a stupid hammer it wont happen. However all this policy talk bores me time for some action.blatant blue hunting darthpunk. Why not ask alignment instead of role? Talk to me darthpunk i wish to know more. ## Vote DarthPunk
Note the bolded. Scum iamp doesn't say things like that that could potentially make him look bad. It's basically the same read I had on him in Aperture, where I was wrong. The key difference, I think, is that he only had 4 posts and I made a snap judgement rather than basing it on an overall pattern, partly because GSL2 was still going on at the time and I was convinced he was scum in that game (which I was right about). He is very distinctly more carefree as town, while being careful as scum.
Of course, I've told him this multiple times so he could potentially try to play differently, and his recent posting regarding me and v7 seems much more careful than his posting earlier in the day. So, I'm still slightly town on him and wouldn't want to lynch him today. If he is scum trying to play differently, I don't think he'll be able to keep it up for long.
|
On October 23 2012 03:46 austinmcc wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2012 03:34 Keirathi wrote:On October 23 2012 03:14 austinmcc wrote:
Keirathi:
I wrote some stuff here but it was super wishy-washy and it's just my thoughts that don't go anywhere. So instead, could you update your read on iamperfection, in long-form?
He's not being talked about, but you said he felt "kind of town" and noted that you felt confident in meta-reading him. Could you just blabber on in a post or two about what read you get from him based on his play this game and based on meta? It's pretty easy. On October 20 2012 10:01 iamperfection wrote:Im all for using votes to apply pressure and we don't have to worry about someone doing a stupid hammer it wont happen. However all this policy talk bores me time for some action.On October 20 2012 09:14 DarthPunk wrote:
Hi drazak? What is your role?
blatant blue hunting darthpunk. Why not ask alignment instead of role? Talk to me darthpunk i wish to know more. ## Vote DarthPunk Note the bolded. Scum iamp doesn't say things like that that could potentially make him look bad. It's basically the same read I had on him in Aperture, where I was wrong. The key difference, I think, is that he only had 4 posts and I made a snap judgement rather than basing it on an overall pattern, partly because GSL2 was still going on at the time and I was convinced he was scum in that game (which I was right about). He is very distinctly more carefree as town, while being careful as scum. Of course, I've told him this multiple times so he could potentially try to play differently, and his recent posting regarding me and v7 seems much more careful than his posting earlier in the day. So, I'm still slightly town on him and wouldn't want to lynch him today. If he is scum trying to play differently, I don't think he'll be able to keep it up for long. Thanks. Is it possible for you to block your knowledge of the player, and tell me how you'd read him if you'd never played with him before, if some unknown name had made his posts this game?
It's pretty hard to separate that knowledge out. I've read or played in every single game that iamp has been in, AFAIK.
Maybe I would be a bit suspicious of a random guy for hopping on the easy bandwagons, but not more so than other people. But again, I don't think this is scum iamp.
|
Anyways, I have to go sit with my grandpa again for the afternoon. I'll be on my phone keep up as much as possible.
|
On October 23 2012 04:26 vaderseven wrote:
Ok reread entire thread again. Reading filters now.
Keirath-
Very neutral or careful play.
Somewhat defensive.
Makes a solid lil case on zboson.
Neutral to town read for now.
+ Show Spoiler +Somewhat defensive? ROFL. Understatement of the year  Carry on.
|
@austin: I'm not exactly sure what you want from me?
Just dump a big list of any thoughts about every single person? That doesn't actually seem helpful, and I am loathe to do it.
I still think we should be lynching Z-Bo.
|
On October 23 2012 03:30 Z-BosoN wrote:DP, that's a real bad tell. From liquid city: Show nested quote +On October 14 2012 08:23 Z-BosoN wrote:On October 14 2012 08:16 iamperfection wrote:On October 14 2012 08:14 Z-BosoN wrote:
DP is my top scumread, I've been trying to push him since forever, but no one seems to find him scummy, so =/ shaopi is voting for dp. Yea that's making me uneasy on who to vote. The biggest tagline of my voting on ShiaoPi is being useless with a fair possibility of being scum. The biggest tagline of me wanting to vote DP is that I actually find him scum. Also, I don't get why people are thinking I'm sheeping. First of all, there's not really much to say on v7.
Second of all, I actually did spend quite some time pondering whether I should give the vote hammer or not. Why are you attacking me right now, and not before? Makes 0 sense.The hapa thing, I attacked him because he unvoted v7 when I completely disagreed with his reasoning to do so. @Hapa All of a sudden? So I spend like 10 posts saying why I think you are suspicious, and you say, "all of a sudden"? Fuck off. Not willing to lynch you != I think you are townie. I have no heart defending myself here. Most of this shit comes from a lack of reading and erratic interpretations. I've made cases vs. kei and hapa, but concluded that v7 deserved the best lynch. How is this fucking scummy? Better yet, how is this scummier over ppl like kei and v7 who aren't doing shit? Wanna talk about sheeping? Try Kei, who hasn't done shit and suddenly goes for me as soon as DP opens the door.
@marv:
Bolded was his response to my accusation. Which, isn't very much a defense.
He just came up with a top scum read out of thin air, but its cool because there's nothing much to say about him.
|
Is it just me or are Z-Bo's reasonings for votin v7 extremely, extremely weak?
Because he's posting from his phone....seriously? Did you not read the other half of his posts?
He said his job had employees walk out enexpectedly so they were understaffed and therefore he was having to work extra hours. Maybe you just don't believe those excuse? That's certainly not what you said though.
|
Z-Bo is 99.99% scum. I don't think there's anything he could say that could convince me otherwise at this point, and I will push him with everything I've got.
|
On October 23 2012 09:13 Z-BosoN wrote:
Well, well, you are quick to pounce.
I found the probability of him lying greater than the one of him telling the truth and playing like he is. He's had forever to contribute.
99.99% you say?
I think you just very well claimed scum here really. Even if I was scum, a townie wouldn't have so much certainty on that fact with my filter, especially with the entirety of your case solely residing on my stance of v7. You are just fake-tunneling hard now, my friend.
Except you never said you thought he was lying. In fact, you DID believe that he was posting from his phone. So, he was telling the truth about that, but lying about the reasoning?
Technically, yes my entire read is base off of your stance on v7. First, you magically through his name in your scum list from out of nowhere, right after he gets 3 votes in the thread and gaining momentum. And then you hammer him for two terrible reasons. That's not the town ZB I've seen lately.
|
On October 23 2012 09:23 Z-BosoN wrote:Btw, Show nested quote +On October 20 2012 11:52 Keirathi wrote:There's nothing to respond to. Common sense should tell you that if someone makes a dumb hammer that you should look into them. I don't know why you felt the need to specifically talk about it. Also, its not like there's a specific metric for how "dumb" a hammer is anyways. Its just a judgment call by everyone in the game. If that time comes, we can discuss it then. Interesting idea of discussion: Show nested quote +I don't think there's anything he could say that could convince me otherwise at this point, and I will push him with everything I've got.
I'm not really sure what your point is, but my judgement call on your terrible hammer is tht you are scum, and I plan to discuss that with people until they see things my way or convince me otherwise. (Also note: I sai that there was nothing YOU could say that could convince me otherwise. Subtle, but very very different distinction)
|
If e thought he was going to die if he didn't, yes. He was the counter wagon after all.
|
EBWOP: if ZB is scum, hammering totally makes sense, no matter how bad it is and how much it puts him in the spotlight. Unless he can convince everyone else of a stronger candidate than himself or v7, which I don't think he could, one of them was probably going to die. Might as well take out the townie, and then let people play WIFOM games of "why would scum make a terrible hammer".
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
