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On October 17 2012 05:10 austinmcc wrote:Got bored in hopeless1der and Djoref's filters, will look at them further tomorrow if I'm around, but I'm currently townie on da0ud but interested in his answer to the prplhz read changing, not-scummy on Hiro, and still big ol' scummy on mementoss. Nobody has answered the book club questions. Nobody has pointed out mementoss BEING useful/townie on D2, although there were posts of his that FELT useful/townie. That is quite scummy to me, as it shows someone wanting to LOOK useful/townie, without actually putting in the effort to BE so. I like to use CAPS sometimes to EMPHASIZE things.
Djo, earlier you were: Show nested quote +On October 15 2012 19:54 Djodref wrote:
I've checked the filters again, with the assumption that one of prplhz and daoud is scum and that we have exactly 3 scums this game.
I have a town read on thrawn because he's promoting good discussion in the thread, he is active and he is clearly trying to find scum.
I have a town read on kush from his meta. But I would like him to put more efforts on scumhunting to be sure.
It's more difficult for me to read austin and ET because it's the first time for me to play with them, I'm leaning towards town for ET because I feel like he is honest in his posts. I can't see any other intention that trying to find scum, also dumping ON like he did would make no sense at all for scum. For austin, I'm also leaning towards town. I really liked his mementoss case and he looks clearly invested in the scumhunt.
So, for the last scum, I'm torn between Mementoss and Hiro and I have a special option on Hopeless. Hence my previous post. I would say Mementoss right now but I've just been reading other people opinion so I need more time to think by myself. thinking Hopeless/mementoss, but you said you'd been reading other people's opinions. Overnight, you've now gone Hopeless/Hiro. Why do you think mementoss is not scum?
Because Hopeless is back on my list and that Mementoss was trying to get people out of the prplhz/daoud situation during D2. Maybe I'm completely fooled but his posting style during D2 has greatly improved my opinion on him.
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On October 17 2012 04:39 kushm4sta wrote:Boo don't trust thrawn. A lot of your case relies on null tells like lurking. But yeah I don't think the case against Daoud is super strong. 1der and Hiro are scummy seeming nulls imo. Does anyone have meta insight into Hiro's play? Since he gave up on tunelling me earlier I haven't really noticed him.
Hopeless clearly doesn't care who is going to explode on D2 and is sheeping hard but you are leaning null on him ?
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but I could tell your head was far up 
not his
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On October 17 2012 07:58 kushm4sta wrote:
If I die:
first let me day I should not die. Either Austin or ET should die and if they don't something is very wrong.
I read straight through about half the thread and I feel confident in my current scumreads.
THRAWN
Read this scum's filter. He is like one of those annoying little dogs that nips at people's heels. He has very little content of his own. Mostly what he does is wait for someone to say something kind of off then go Omg why you say that?
DJODREF
His scumstrat= make big posts, people will be impressed and think you are town. Look past the length and you will see his scumminess.
ET
That last minute ON vote ro4, do not trust that shit.
Remember he is the one who brought it to everyone's attention originally.
Scum may have known ON was getting modkilled and decided to take the townie points from leading the lynch instead.
Also note how he had no points to spend either way ro2. He used more votes than necessary ro4 so he would not have to ve accountable for his vote ro2.
His activity has been real low except for when attacked. Then he turns super sayain.
He never even commented on sandroba until AFTER the lynch during the ro2.
Kush out.
Could you please back up your scumreads with more consistent elements ?
For thrawn, I would like to see posts with clear scum motivations. In fact, I would enjoy to see a real case from you against him.
For me, I usually post big posts because nobody is here when I'm posting. I don't enjoy discussing with myself that much.
I would also appreciate a real case against me.
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My list would be
1)Hopeless
2)Hiro
3)
4)
5)
6)
7)thrawn
8)djodref
I'm not yet about the middle. I would go like austin=memento<daoud. Pretty sure that daoud is a real town newbie.
I don't know anymore abouth kush. He would be 6th until the end of D2 but I want some cases and explanations from him for his scumreads to decide.
Anyway what I really want today is to lynch Hopeless.
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Regarding today's mechanics, I think we should run our majority lynch in parallel.
It's interesting to get the list so people should put them in the voting thread regardless of who is going to be lynched today (according to the lists).
With the parallel majority lynch (running until smthing like deadline - 1H), we decide what is the real target of the lynch today and we modify the lists in order to get the right guy lynched. I'm betting right now that it's going to be the same guy anyway.
I propose a majority vote for this idea !
I'm in !
##Vote Hopeless
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On October 17 2012 09:50 Mementoss wrote:Show nested quote +On October 17 2012 09:42 Djodref wrote:
Regarding today's mechanics, I think we should run our majority lynch in parallel.
It's interesting to get the list so people should put them in the voting thread regardless of who is going to be lynched today (according to the lists).
With the parallel majority lynch (running until smthing like deadline - 1H), we decide what is the real target of the lynch today and we modify the lists in order to get the right guy lynched. I'm betting right now that it's going to be the same guy anyway.
I propose a majority vote for this idea !
I'm in !
##Vote Hopeless
Nononononononononono No no more fucking scummy plans based on the lynch mechanics. Everyone do what they want. But more specifically (lol) put your top 2 as your best scum reads and explain them in detail. (cuz there is probably 2 left) than for the remaining rank them based on how townie you see them. Always put yourself last, not putting yourself last is a scum claim, don't put yourself in another position to save someone.
lol
I don't care I like my idea better I'm going to do what I want. But it looks like I'm already following your idea.
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@Hopeless
Why is daoud at the top of your list ?
If you have time, I would like to have your comments about my post : why we shouldn't daoud.
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More on Hiro's "transparency"
On October 16 2012 11:43 HiroPro wrote:Show nested quote +On October 16 2012 11:37 da0ud wrote:
However I do agree that Hiro took advantage of all the tunelling to hide most of Day2....
Please Hiro, explain yourself .
Who are your scumreads currently ? You'll have to wait for my deadline post.
@Hiro
Where is the deadline post ?
I'm quite happy with the lynch mechanics today because we are finally going to have more than one scumread from Hiro.
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I've been reading the whole daoud turnover about thrawn just before and it made me regret my previous night post+ Show Spoiler +On October 17 2012 01:00 Djodref wrote:
Why we shouldn't lynch Daoud
My main point here is that we have made a mistake while lynching prplhz and I'm afraid that we might do it again if we were to lynch Daoud. First I would like to compare the reasons why we want to lynch them. + Show Spoiler +I've tried to analyze the reasons which lead to the D2 prplhz's debacle. At that time, prplhz felt like the perfect lynch candidate. Mainly because of the following reasons - Questionable post quality
- Pushing Sandroba lynch, then backing off
- Attempt to get town credit for his last minute "save"
- Association with ON
- Holding onto the potato (scum players are known to like potato)
- Wanting to blow ET with his potato
Now let's take a look at the reasons advanced for daoud's lynch - OMGUSing, using weird logic to find scum
- Pushing Sandroba lynch, then having a very poor defense for his actions
- Association with ON
- Wanting for the majority to decide what to do with his potato (he didn't get to hold the potato at all but w/e)
If you see anything thing big that I have missed, I would enjoy to discuss it. Anyway, there are some common reasons between these two and I think that some of them are just not so good. I'm not saying that they are not valid but I don't think they should carry too much weight in our scumhunt. I'm going to elaborate the push of Sandroba and the association with ON in the next spoiler. Among us, we have been a lot to suspect Sandro during the first stages of D1: he didn't randomly advance to the finals. When you look at his filter until the following post, he looks pretty scummy. On October 13 2012 16:00 sandroba wrote:
I'm not going to fight against this lynch. This is simply too stupid to fight over and I don't feel like it. If you people stopped one second to look at this thread you would come to realise that is simply no way I'm scum purely based on how this situation came to be. Also there is no case against me. I refuse to defend myself against the ignorant uninformed opinion of a bunch of riotters. This is no way to play mafia. You have to look at the intricacies and not follow the mob rule that is usually driven by scum. I leave you sheep to your fate.
My reads so far is that ET austin hiro and kush are town. I honestly don't know anymore about ON cuz I would expect him to try to at least keep apearances as scum.
This djodref is either very dumb or scum. You would never as town (and inteligent) feel that a person that is standing up to you against the majority trying to lynch would be scum. Prpl and mementos are prob scum. I've been wanting to lynch him at this point and it was the same for Thrawn, Kush, and Daoud. I've haven't been here to witness the rise of town Sandro later on but I think it was totally ok to have wanted to lynch him at that time. We shouldn't have blamed prplhz for this and we should not blame anybody for this. After that, prplhz didn't realize his mistake fast enough and I guess that daoud wasn't even here to see the real town Sandro as he missed all the deadlines. Regarding the Daoud's defense regarding his vote, I would agree that it looks pretty bad. I don't want to give him total clearance because of this precise point but given the general level of his posts and his awareness of the game, I can imagine him as total town newbie with clumsy defense.
ON was a lurker. I don't know what we can guess from his few interactions with the world. The two votes he threw on me were not even useful, I don't see any purpose for them. They might have been real panic votes, maybe not. We don't know.
Same, anybody could say anything about a lurker. Mafia can try to bus or to save. Town can say scummy or townie (see prplhz as an extreme example). The thing is that he was a lurker. We cannot have anything tangible from this.
If we discard the previous reasons, here is what is left - OMGUSing, using weird logic to find scum
- Wanting for the majority to decide what to do with his potato (he didn't get to hold the potato at all but w/e)
I think these reasons are not a making a solid enough case. He could be newb scum or he could be newb town but my guts are leaning towards town when I read his filter. Especially when he has tried to improve his play during potato day. Regarding the potato, prplhz didn't pass it and it was not town in my eyes but maybe you see things differently when you have everybody on your back. One last thing. When I'm looking back at D2, I have a feeling this day was wasted. Because we had two obvious targets, we didn't think about if they were the right targets or not. Please think how easy it would be to push such mislynches when no one is thinking twice. Mafia totally got us and I bet they were enjoying nice holidays. Daoud is looking scummy but he is not the right target. I have a strong feeling that he is in fact a newbie that is going to be mislynched. I would prefer than we not lynch him and focus on the right targets starting from tomorrow. I'm going to present them to you in my following posts.
I have been preparing this post after prplhz tragic explosion, and I was wondering if daoud could be the scum of two like I've stated here.
On October 15 2012 18:18 Djodref wrote:/snip About prplhz and daoudMy feeling is that we definitively have a scum between the two but not that the two of them are scum. Honestly, if they were both scum, I would expect them to concede right now. I'm really more confident that prplhz is the scum out of them two. I would be happy to see them passing the potato to each other 
I've realized that we didn't think about prplhz lynch enough and thus I have considered carefully why we should lynch Daoud. At this time, I found out that he was more likely to be a mislynch than anything else, hence my night post.
Unfortunately, his behavior right now at he beginning has made me doubt again. I was wondering if he could really be scum or not while re-reading the whole thread and I came to the conclusion that he is certainly a mislynch !
I'll elaborate in my next post. It's a bit WIFOMy but I think it's good
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First things first, regardless of daoud possible alignment, we could all agree that he is a total newbie, he doesn't know how to scumhunt nor defending himself properly and he has some weird posts.
I'm also going to assume that we have 3 mafia players in this game.
And here is what I've found while reading the game. These are statements made by Sandroba and ET the night where they were killed. We have straightforward posts from both of them.
On October 14 2012 16:57 sandroba wrote:
Just lynch da0ud, then prplhz, then you figure the rest out if the game is not over.
On October 16 2012 14:19 EchelonTee wrote:
need to lynch da0ud.
tunneling is not an inherently bad thing. Another way to phrase it is "focusing on someone you think is scum and getting them lynched". Calling kush scummy for tunneling doesn't make sense. Tunneling is an inherent part of playing the game, unless you enjoy being unfocused.
Let's make the assumption that daoud is a scum newbie
+ Show Spoiler +So there is ON, daoud and one unlucky guy in the scumteam. In this case, the killings of Sandroba and ET may have been motivated by a surviving strategy. ON has been lynched D1 and the team wants to protect daoud from a lynch. I can imagine such a strategy from the mafia scumteam, especially when things start to look bad when ON advances to the final. But imagine now that you are the last mafia, this one unlucky guy - Do you really think that protecting daoud is a good strategy ? Maybe you should just bus him hard...
- Do you allow him to go in OMGUS mode on Sandroba, after a "hunch" ?
- On top of that, do you let him cast 9 ninja votes on Sandroba, without posting at all during R4 ?
- Don't you tell him to just shut up because every defensive post he does makes him look even worse ?
There is only one possibility and you know it, this one unlucky guy has to be kush in this case. (This is just a joke, kush has been terribad as scum in my last newbie, no hard feelings kush <3)
Let's make the assumption that daoud is a town newbie
+ Show Spoiler +
I know it's bad but let's imagine that you are the mafia right now.
You and your evil mafia partner have been noticing how easily you could push a mislynch on daoud or prplhz after their unfortunate votes on Sandroba. His last will post is just a gift from the gods to achieve your evil plans and you do not hesitate to kill this guy who would have been a pain in the ass anyway.
After a wearisome D1 where one of your partner have been lynched for inactivity, you just have to post
"lol, daoud and prplhz so scum, just pass the potato to each other, gg" (everybody did it, maybe some irritating guy like mementoss was trying to say something else but you weren't paying attention anyway because you were on holidays)
And there you are, N2, and you discover another gift of the gods in the last will of the unfortunate ET. Kill this guy, push a mislynch on the newbie (hello Hopeless) and it's almost gg.
I know there is a lot of speculation about the actions of the mafia in this post. But the more I think about it, the more it makes sense. I would really appreciate some feedback on this because I don't know if I'm just wasting my time thinking about why the mafia have killed Sandro and ET.
But right now, I'm pretty sure daoud would be a mislynch and I would really like to convince you so.
While writing this post, I've realized that people that are attacking daoud right now might be the bad guys (Hopeless and maybe kush also). And that Mementoss behavior during D2 was very much town.
So I'm going to update my ranking
##Vote
1 Hopeless
2 Hiro
3 Kush
4 Austin
5 Mementoss
6 Daoud
7 Thrawn
8 Djodref
Regarding my current ranking on kush, it's going to change depending on his promised elaborated cases against thrawn and me. I'm going to check Austin's filter right now.
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by the way, please check my post !
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@Mementoss
I totally agree with the logic of your post. I didn't think through all the mafia perspective when I've made my Hopeless case.
I've noticed that it wouldn't make sense for a scum Hopeless to play scummy on purpose while he was going to meet his buddy on the semi-finals.
On October 17 2012 01:01 Djodref wrote:/snip What speaks for him+ Show Spoiler +
I still believe he was playing scummy on purpose at the first time because there is no way to play like this if you are not doing it on purpose. But I don't know on which purpose. It doesn't make sense for scum to do this but it doesn't really make sense for town either so I don't know. But I wouldn't do this at all if my lurky scum partner was going to face me in semi-finals.
It would make no sense for him to be scum but he has such an anti-town play that I don't believe him to be town anymore. Right now, I believe he's playing a WIFOMy act ("too scummy to be scum") so I would support an Hopeless lynch.
Nevertheless, if you believe he is town, please check his filter and tell me what he has achieved for town.
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On October 17 2012 21:08 thrawn2112 wrote:
And look at the voting results:
Hopeless vs OriginalName 15-12
sandroba vs djodref 4-0
To me that very clearly suggests scum activity behind the hopeless vs ON matchup... and the two who voted for hopeless were kush/djo. I suggest everyone go and read the r3 part of the thread.
I see only three possible scenarios:
A) there is scum among kush/djo
B) hopeless took the lead against ON on accident without scum interference
C) if hopeless is scum then for some reason scum decided they'd rather have hopeless in the finals instead on ON
I really think there is something too all this but lets please keep the discussion from reaching wifom insanity
I have not been sharing all the WIFOM insanity I went through after the first time Hopeless admitted he was playing scummy on purpose. I don't want things like this to happen in the thread.
Quick comments on your possible scenarios:
A) I'm town, I am not sure about Kush anymore, I'm waiting for him to present real cases
B) likely scenario because Hopeless was then playing scum on purpose
C) Hopeless may be scum and play us an hell of a WIFOMy act but I don't see why the last scum would help him advanced over ON in this case
Some comments on Hopeless being my top scumread atm:
I'm either totally stupid or Hopeless is using great WIFOM against us
As my reads are usually bad, I would say that I'm totally stupid.
Still, I want everybody to answer the question : what Hopeless has done for the town so far ?
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On October 17 2012 21:21 Mementoss wrote:
My only problem now is I don't know who to lynch, but at least this is a starting point for discussion
Well, I have the same problem, but I'm feeling really excited right now. There is some good discussion going on ^^
@Hopeless
Please look at my second defense of Daoud, and tell me if you still want to lynch him after this.
I didn't appreciate the fact that you have said that my first defense of him was piss-poor. But I'm realizing right now that I might have been totally stupid while tunneling you. Please step up and you're going to drop quickly from the top of my list.
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he didn't bus ON at all
you have it all wrong, check the voting thread again. ET pushed ON over the edge
30 minutes before R3, you have ON advancing with
hopeless1der (7) < OriginalName (11)
Hope = 6 x Djo + 1 x Kush
ON = Sand x 7 + Hiro x 2 + ET x 2
After that Kush bombed Hope with 5 more votes and ET countered last minute with 4 more votes on ON
Final
Hopeless vs OriginalName 15-12
Hope = 6 x Djo + 6 x Kush
ON = Sand x 7 + Hiro x 2 + ET x 6
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EBWOP:
Thrawn has made a mistake in his last two posts, it was supposed to be a correction for him but it is useful for everybody regarding the present discussion.
My main point is that Kush wouldn't have bussed ON at all, regarding the votes
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Regarding my votes on Hopeless, I have already explained them here
+ Show Spoiler +On October 15 2012 12:04 Djodref wrote:
Ok, I've just caught up with the thread now.
First of all, I would like to address your concerns regarding my votes again Hopeless at round 3, when ON was facing him. I understand that they put me at a bad position right now. At the time when I've have dumped all my votes on him, I was pretty sure he was a mafia player. In my eyes, he was the scummiest but we didn't know yet that he was playing that way on purpose (regardless of his possible alignment).
As I explained earlier, I was expecting him to dump all his 9 votes on me in response (in a total mafia OMGUS way) so I believed the chances were very high to have a Hopeless/Djodref final. I thought the mafia would take this final because I don't look so good and it's easier to push a mislynch on a newbie. I was all-in and I wanted Hopeless to be lynched even if it was by risking me to be in the final.
So I went out quite satisfied with my move but when I finally emerged from my drunken sleep, I was very surprised to read Hopeless answer to my case. I would have expect anything but him giving me a town read. I've spent a lot of time thinking why a scum Hopeless would do that. Before going totally nuts, I've decided to stop WIFOMing myself and to reserve my judgement for later.
I'm at work right now and I don't have time to elaborate so much but I would prefer prplhz to explode with the Hot Potatoe today. I was already suspicious of prplhz before all the Sandroba vote thing but it strongly confirms it.
I'm not totally sold on Daoud yet. I've had a newb townie read on him until R3. His defense is very bad but he has been consistent with his read on Sandroba. Also I don't see his last scummate (prplhz?) let him post or vote like he did.
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@Kush
Did you read my latest defense of daoud ?
What do you think about it ?
Waiting for your case
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EPT
