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On October 01 2012 06:54 Nisani201 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 01 2012 06:25 Keirathi wrote:
As a bonus answer, Nisani is the other person (besides ghost) that I am particularly interested in right now. I feel like him jumping in to defend me against Drazerk because I was a "newbie" was taking advantage of an easy situation.
I recently played a game on another forum where I was pushed hard throughout the entire game because I made a small "newbie mistake" at the beginning. This game seems very similar and I don't want us to make the same mistake. Not sure what to think of ghost, I think it's pretty stupid for anyone to vote Kei. I'm also not sure why drazerk took his vote off kei, since it doesn't look like anything really changed his mind. I also think that Mementoss's "analysis" post was really stupid. It was a bad case on austin and the other half was him calling people town. He's on my radar but I'm still more confident in Drazerk.
Can we talk more about this guy?
1) Jumps in to white-knight the "newbie". Such an easy thing for scum to do, especially on day 1 in a relatively inactive game. Admittedly, a townie could do that too, but I find it hard to believe that a townie would have that strong of a conviction that I was town making a "newbie mistake" rather than a scum making a dumb one.
2) "I think its pretty stupid for anyone to vote Keir, but why did drazerk unvote Keir?"
Can anyone explain that logic? If its dumb for someone to vote me, why is it also dumb for someone with their vote on me to unvote me?
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On October 02 2012 00:58 austinmcc wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2012 00:38 Keirathi wrote:
@austin: what's your position on me now? You jumped from not scummy, to questioning my explanations, and even through out a (laughable) scum motivation for my actions. But you completely didn't even mention me now that you're back. Those jumps are based on what you did in the meantime. Here's my initial post: Show nested quote +On September 30 2012 15:44 austinmcc wrote:
...
I appreciate things getting off to a nice start, but really? Was I the only person who assumed that Keirathi didn't actually have some giant scumread on Mattchew? Given the reasons that he decided to vote mattchew (amg mattchew has used the term town and hasn't claimed a role that doesn't exist), I don't see the unvote as scummy. Vote for weak reasons, unvote for weak reasons.
Drazerk you ACTUALLY think it's anti-town to do that? I didn't see your unvote for weak reasons as scummy. Drazerk had just posted that it was third party or idiot, I didn't find it to be telling at all because the reasoning behind the vote in the first place didn't seem strong. Then after that post, you give your explanation and justification. THAT is what I feel is scummy, reminds me of scum. I'm not concerned about you unvoting based on some weak comments from matt (What drazerk mentioned and what I didn't find scummy), I'm concerned about you based on your later explanation where you claim to have wanted discussion and opinions yet unvote before any of that ever appears.
You're making a mountain out of a mole hill. But I've said all that I can say about it, you're just choosing to interpret it as some super-pro scum motivation. I've been completely open with my thoughts and opinions throughout the entirety of the game, and haven't shied away from having people talking about me.
On October 02 2012 00:58 austinmcc wrote:
Right now, I'm scummy on you. I'm not going to lead a crusade to lynch you because the way you explained a plan reminds of what a scum player in another game did, however. For now I'm looking elsewhere for today's lynch, and I'm watching you. I'm alright with the way you discussed Ghost when talking to Gonzaw, I don't think someone can get a free pass for a terrible vote and then not pushing it at all.
I'm not really sure what you mean by the bolded part. You think my explanation is similar to what scum did in another game, and you think I'm scummy, but you don't want to lynch me?
On October 02 2012 00:58 austinmcc wrote:If you want me to keep looking at you, fine. What's up with this? Show nested quote +On October 01 2012 06:03 Keirathi wrote:On October 01 2012 05:59 gonzaw wrote:
At Keirathi:
1)Are you going to start scumhunting soon? When I feel like there's enough for me to make an actual case that I believe in. Until them, I'm content to ask questions and discuss the current goings-on in the thread to build my reads. Show nested quote +On October 02 2012 00:40 Keirathi wrote:On October 02 2012 00:36 JingleHell wrote:On October 02 2012 00:31 austinmcc wrote:
Why exactly do you find that performance embarrassing, and how is it driving you to play the way you are this game? Is it just the constant pushing of Grush and trying to get people on that lynch? I led several rather key mislynches. As town. Pushing Grush was about the least embarrassing part of my performance, because frankly, he's useless. I do wish he'd died earlier in the game, though. I don't remember all the specifics at this point off the top of my head, but almost every time I convinced people on someone, it made the overall situation worse. Clearly, if I make too much case out of too little, it doesn't serve the town , so I'm letting things solidify in my mind and in the thread a bit more before going into hardcore push people mode, because once I do that, there's a tendency for someone to get lynched. Being in a town-leader-ish position is only good if I don't also get nominated as the scumteam's MVP as town for it. How long, exactly, do you plan to wait? Theres only 7.5 hours until the deadline. You've been doing more in thread, but it seems like you're getting on JH for saying he's doing exactly what you've said you're doing. Why is it fine for you to wait to scumhunt until you've got enough to make a case, but it's not alright for JH to wait before pushing someone?
The difference is there's less than 1/4 of the day left, and JH hadn't done much at all so far besides making excuses as to why he isn't playing to his town meta.
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On October 02 2012 01:18 JingleHell wrote:
I'd love to know where you get the absurd notion that all I've done is "make excuses". Providing my reasoning for being careful (when you yourself pressed for that reasoning to be explained no less) is hardly making excuses.
Or do you want townies to lead mislynches?
I specifically said hadn't. IE, prior to my question, your lack of contribution in the thread in general was different than your town meta, and you made some excuses as to why that was.
I didn't say your excuses were bad. They were just excuses.
And no, I want townies to lynch scum. You hadn't been active or engaged in conversations and refining your reads. You were just content to let other people talk about stuff and only make comments when pressed about it.
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EBWOP: add "for the most part" to the end of that. You did jump in and give an opinion about Draz early.
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Anyways, I still want to lynch either Nisani or ghost.
I am loathe to give ghost a free pass for such atrocious reasoning, and then complete inactivity. He hasn't even attempted to explain himself, and I have trouble trying to conjecture a townie reasoning for it. My gut still says he is a VI-type role though, and it would make his play perfectly understandable.
Nisani on the otherhand, I can definitely believe is scum. His posts just reek of knowing my alignment beforehand.
##vote: Nisani201
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On October 02 2012 01:38 Mattchew wrote:
Keirathi explain to me why you want to lynch ghost
I already did.
On October 01 2012 06:25 Keirathi wrote:Show nested quote +On October 01 2012 06:09 gonzaw wrote:
3)Do you think ghost acting like an idiot and wanting to lynch you for mind-boggling reasons makes him scum, reckless townie trying to play the "aggressive hero" role, or is not enough to judge his alignment? This is the harder one. I honestly don't think that ghost is an idiot. He hosted two of my three newbie games, and definitely saw the amount of effort I put into Newbie XIX within the first 12 hours of replacing in, so theoretically he should know the way I play better than anyone else in this game (I've played in one game with about half of the players in this game). So why is he acting like that? Honestly, my first thought was Village Idiot, but I'm not sure if there's a VI-type role, and I think its pointless to speculate about it so I didn't mention it. I 100% think what he has said was anti-town, though.
His whole reasoning for voting me was because I "looked through filters. and townies don't put in that much effort early in day 1". Which is such bullshit reasoning, that I can't even fathom a motivation for making it outside of VI.
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On October 02 2012 01:59 Mattchew wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2012 01:43 Keirathi wrote:On October 02 2012 01:38 Mattchew wrote:
Keirathi explain to me why you want to lynch ghost I already did. On October 01 2012 06:25 Keirathi wrote:On October 01 2012 06:09 gonzaw wrote:
3)Do you think ghost acting like an idiot and wanting to lynch you for mind-boggling reasons makes him scum, reckless townie trying to play the "aggressive hero" role, or is not enough to judge his alignment? This is the harder one. I honestly don't think that ghost is an idiot. He hosted two of my three newbie games, and definitely saw the amount of effort I put into Newbie XIX within the first 12 hours of replacing in, so theoretically he should know the way I play better than anyone else in this game (I've played in one game with about half of the players in this game). So why is he acting like that? Honestly, my first thought was Village Idiot, but I'm not sure if there's a VI-type role, and I think its pointless to speculate about it so I didn't mention it. I 100% think what he has said was anti-town, though. His whole reasoning for voting me was because I "looked through filters. and townies don't put in that much effort early in day 1". Which is such bullshit reasoning, that I can't even fathom a motivation for making it outside of VI. if you dont think ghost is an idiot you should try to extract the actual meaning from his posts than to just take them at hastey face value. He is saying, and I agree with, that your early "case" seemed forced and that you were faking putting in that much effort. You even agree with this when you admitted your case was bad and just meant for discussion. do you have anything else or is your entire read based on failed reading comprehension?
ghost_403 wrote:
Looking through previous filters when there's been, what, twenty posts in this game? No, that's not something that townies do.
He didn't say I was faking putting in effort. He said that putting in that much effort early game is not something that a townie would do.
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On October 02 2012 02:09 Keirathi wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2012 01:59 Mattchew wrote:On October 02 2012 01:43 Keirathi wrote:On October 02 2012 01:38 Mattchew wrote:
Keirathi explain to me why you want to lynch ghost I already did. On October 01 2012 06:25 Keirathi wrote:On October 01 2012 06:09 gonzaw wrote:
3)Do you think ghost acting like an idiot and wanting to lynch you for mind-boggling reasons makes him scum, reckless townie trying to play the "aggressive hero" role, or is not enough to judge his alignment? This is the harder one. I honestly don't think that ghost is an idiot. He hosted two of my three newbie games, and definitely saw the amount of effort I put into Newbie XIX within the first 12 hours of replacing in, so theoretically he should know the way I play better than anyone else in this game (I've played in one game with about half of the players in this game). So why is he acting like that? Honestly, my first thought was Village Idiot, but I'm not sure if there's a VI-type role, and I think its pointless to speculate about it so I didn't mention it. I 100% think what he has said was anti-town, though. His whole reasoning for voting me was because I "looked through filters. and townies don't put in that much effort early in day 1". Which is such bullshit reasoning, that I can't even fathom a motivation for making it outside of VI. if you dont think ghost is an idiot you should try to extract the actual meaning from his posts than to just take them at hastey face value. He is saying, and I agree with, that your early "case" seemed forced and that you were faking putting in that much effort. You even agree with this when you admitted your case was bad and just meant for discussion. do you have anything else or is your entire read based on failed reading comprehension? Show nested quote +ghost_403 wrote:
Looking through previous filters when there's been, what, twenty posts in this game? No, that's not something that townies do. He didn't say I was faking putting in effort. He said that putting in that much effort early game is not something that a townie would do.
EBWOP: I guess he could have meant that he thought I was faking the effort and just making bullshit up. But that's demonstrably not the case.
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On October 02 2012 02:13 JingleHell wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2012 02:12 Keirathi wrote:On October 02 2012 02:09 Keirathi wrote:On October 02 2012 01:59 Mattchew wrote:On October 02 2012 01:43 Keirathi wrote:On October 02 2012 01:38 Mattchew wrote:
Keirathi explain to me why you want to lynch ghost I already did. On October 01 2012 06:25 Keirathi wrote:On October 01 2012 06:09 gonzaw wrote:
3)Do you think ghost acting like an idiot and wanting to lynch you for mind-boggling reasons makes him scum, reckless townie trying to play the "aggressive hero" role, or is not enough to judge his alignment? This is the harder one. I honestly don't think that ghost is an idiot. He hosted two of my three newbie games, and definitely saw the amount of effort I put into Newbie XIX within the first 12 hours of replacing in, so theoretically he should know the way I play better than anyone else in this game (I've played in one game with about half of the players in this game). So why is he acting like that? Honestly, my first thought was Village Idiot, but I'm not sure if there's a VI-type role, and I think its pointless to speculate about it so I didn't mention it. I 100% think what he has said was anti-town, though. His whole reasoning for voting me was because I "looked through filters. and townies don't put in that much effort early in day 1". Which is such bullshit reasoning, that I can't even fathom a motivation for making it outside of VI. if you dont think ghost is an idiot you should try to extract the actual meaning from his posts than to just take them at hastey face value. He is saying, and I agree with, that your early "case" seemed forced and that you were faking putting in that much effort. You even agree with this when you admitted your case was bad and just meant for discussion. do you have anything else or is your entire read based on failed reading comprehension? ghost_403 wrote:
Looking through previous filters when there's been, what, twenty posts in this game? No, that's not something that townies do. He didn't say I was faking putting in effort. He said that putting in that much effort early game is not something that a townie would do. EBWOP: I guess he could have meant that he thought I was faking the effort and just making bullshit up. But that's demonstrably not the case. If you said "Not demonstrably", I could maybe agree. Saying "demonstrably not" is a bit harder to see.
Take a look through Mattchew's meta and tell me if I was making bullshit up when I said:
On September 30 2012 13:01 Keirathi wrote:For completeness sake, though, I did go back through all of your games up to Movie Star, and the only pattern was that you seem to claim town if you get into the thread early, and otherwise say you are catching up and reading the thread in your first post 
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On October 02 2012 02:24 Mattchew wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2012 02:12 Keirathi wrote:On October 02 2012 02:09 Keirathi wrote:On October 02 2012 01:59 Mattchew wrote:On October 02 2012 01:43 Keirathi wrote:On October 02 2012 01:38 Mattchew wrote:
Keirathi explain to me why you want to lynch ghost I already did. On October 01 2012 06:25 Keirathi wrote:On October 01 2012 06:09 gonzaw wrote:
3)Do you think ghost acting like an idiot and wanting to lynch you for mind-boggling reasons makes him scum, reckless townie trying to play the "aggressive hero" role, or is not enough to judge his alignment? This is the harder one. I honestly don't think that ghost is an idiot. He hosted two of my three newbie games, and definitely saw the amount of effort I put into Newbie XIX within the first 12 hours of replacing in, so theoretically he should know the way I play better than anyone else in this game (I've played in one game with about half of the players in this game). So why is he acting like that? Honestly, my first thought was Village Idiot, but I'm not sure if there's a VI-type role, and I think its pointless to speculate about it so I didn't mention it. I 100% think what he has said was anti-town, though. His whole reasoning for voting me was because I "looked through filters. and townies don't put in that much effort early in day 1". Which is such bullshit reasoning, that I can't even fathom a motivation for making it outside of VI. if you dont think ghost is an idiot you should try to extract the actual meaning from his posts than to just take them at hastey face value. He is saying, and I agree with, that your early "case" seemed forced and that you were faking putting in that much effort. You even agree with this when you admitted your case was bad and just meant for discussion. do you have anything else or is your entire read based on failed reading comprehension? ghost_403 wrote:
Looking through previous filters when there's been, what, twenty posts in this game? No, that's not something that townies do. He didn't say I was faking putting in effort. He said that putting in that much effort early game is not something that a townie would do. EBWOP: I guess he could have meant that he thought I was faking the effort and just making bullshit up. But that's demonstrably not the case. this is funny cause you were faking effort and making bullshit up as you admitted
Where did I say I was faking effort and making bullshit up?
I did catch someone as scum for saying "I'm town!" a bunch, and have been paranoid about it ever sense.
And you did start the setup speculation, which I felt wasn't benefitting town.
Both of those things might have been weak points, but they weren't WRONG. They were just weak.
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On October 02 2012 02:28 Keirathi wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2012 02:24 Mattchew wrote:On October 02 2012 02:12 Keirathi wrote:On October 02 2012 02:09 Keirathi wrote:On October 02 2012 01:59 Mattchew wrote:On October 02 2012 01:43 Keirathi wrote:On October 02 2012 01:38 Mattchew wrote:
Keirathi explain to me why you want to lynch ghost I already did. On October 01 2012 06:25 Keirathi wrote:On October 01 2012 06:09 gonzaw wrote:
3)Do you think ghost acting like an idiot and wanting to lynch you for mind-boggling reasons makes him scum, reckless townie trying to play the "aggressive hero" role, or is not enough to judge his alignment? This is the harder one. I honestly don't think that ghost is an idiot. He hosted two of my three newbie games, and definitely saw the amount of effort I put into Newbie XIX within the first 12 hours of replacing in, so theoretically he should know the way I play better than anyone else in this game (I've played in one game with about half of the players in this game). So why is he acting like that? Honestly, my first thought was Village Idiot, but I'm not sure if there's a VI-type role, and I think its pointless to speculate about it so I didn't mention it. I 100% think what he has said was anti-town, though. His whole reasoning for voting me was because I "looked through filters. and townies don't put in that much effort early in day 1". Which is such bullshit reasoning, that I can't even fathom a motivation for making it outside of VI. if you dont think ghost is an idiot you should try to extract the actual meaning from his posts than to just take them at hastey face value. He is saying, and I agree with, that your early "case" seemed forced and that you were faking putting in that much effort. You even agree with this when you admitted your case was bad and just meant for discussion. do you have anything else or is your entire read based on failed reading comprehension? ghost_403 wrote:
Looking through previous filters when there's been, what, twenty posts in this game? No, that's not something that townies do. He didn't say I was faking putting in effort. He said that putting in that much effort early game is not something that a townie would do. EBWOP: I guess he could have meant that he thought I was faking the effort and just making bullshit up. But that's demonstrably not the case. this is funny cause you were faking effort and making bullshit up as you admitted Where did I say I was faking effort and making bullshit up? I did catch someone as scum for saying "I'm town!" a bunch, and have been paranoid about it ever sense. And you did start the setup speculation, which I felt wasn't benefitting town. Both of those things might have been weak points, but they weren't WRONG. They were just weak.
EBWOP: When I said it was a bad case, it was a bad case in that it was never going to get you lynched. Not that I was lying or making stuff up.
I gut reaction was that you were scummy based on your first posts, but then when you defending yourself and talked through it with me, I changed my mind.
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On October 02 2012 03:04 Mattchew wrote:lets expand on this... what do you think of his contributions to the game. What do you think of his read on ghost? Do you agree with his reasoning? What would make you think he is town?
A counterpoint: do you disagree with my assessment of iamperfection? Did you go check his meta yourself, or did you just think "nah, Keirathi is a noob there's no way he could be right. iamperfection is definitely scum because he's not contributing."?
For reference, his scum game was Newbie XIX. He was completely neutral in his tone throughout the game, lurked, then just sheeped onto the popular case each day.
His attitude as town in his recent games is just completely different than his demeanor was in that game. Again, I'm not giving him a 100% town read, because it is possible that his scum game has changed over time as he got more comfortable, but there's no way I would want to lynch him today.
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Something else for austin to answer:
On October 02 2012 02:32 austinmcc wrote:
I don't like Mattchew for scum, he's my strongest town-read right now. I don't like gonzaw for scum atm, although it'll take more time to figure that one out. I don't like me for scum, because I'm not. So those posts are out.
Care to give some reasoning for those reads?
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On October 02 2012 04:12 austinmcc wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2012 03:53 JingleHell wrote:On October 02 2012 03:49 Mementoss wrote:On October 02 2012 01:43 austinmcc wrote:On October 02 2012 01:15 Mattchew wrote:
austin why arent you voting iamperfection with me? Oh noes, I forgot. ##Vote: iamperfectionSorry about that. ##Unvotesnip This exchange read extremely weird for me, especially since before this austimccn has never mentioned Iamperfection. You know, that's actually an intriguing point. Mind explaining, austin? Found Mattchew's question to be real but posed in a silly way (What is your read on iamperfection?). Gave him a real answer, but started with a silly beginning.
I could buy that answer, but it still doesn't explain why after your Vote+Unvote, you kept talking about iamperfection like you wanted to lynch him.
On October 02 2012 01:43 austinmcc wrote:
Why am I voting iamperfection over others?
*snip*
Why am I lynching iamperfection over the other two? *snip*
That was your first mention of him, and you seemed to be saying that you thought he was the scummiest of the 3 "lurker" and that one of them was almost certainly scum. But immediately afterwards, you started talking about JH and in your next post, you hopped on the JH wagon.
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On October 02 2012 05:36 ghost_403 wrote:
I'm still happy trying to lynch Keirathi today. After his initial case on Mattchew, he's done more or less no analysis this game. If looking through austin's previous games doesn't yield anything interesting, I might spend a bit more time staring at Keirathi's filter and write up my thoughts on it.
Please do. And little to no analysis? I've given full reads on you, Nisani, drazerk, and JH. Not sure what else you want from me.
"He's putting in too much effort to be town" is bullshit and there is literally no way I can even argue that, though.
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On October 02 2012 06:09 ghost_403 wrote:
@Keir: I'll give you something to argue about as soon as I'm done writing it. Still convinced Nisani is scum?
I wouldn't say that I'm convinced that he is scum. But yes, he is the person I feel strongest about. His posts regarding me reek of someone with extra information.
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On October 02 2012 06:15 ghost_403 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2012 06:11 Keirathi wrote:On October 02 2012 06:09 ghost_403 wrote:
@Keir: I'll give you something to argue about as soon as I'm done writing it. Still convinced Nisani is scum? I wouldn't say that I'm convinced that he is scum. But yes, he is the person I feel strongest about. His posts regarding me reek of someone with extra information. You're one of one person currently on that vote, best of my knowledge. If you're so convinced he's scum, why aren't you pushing for it in the thread?
What else can I say? I voted for him, and tried to get people to read why and comment on it, but I was just ignored. Everyone is just giving him a null read (or maybe slightly scummy, but not enough to vote). So I settled for talking about the other ongoing cases and deciding if I find someone scummier than Nisani. I haven't yet.
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On October 02 2012 06:19 Keirathi wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2012 06:15 ghost_403 wrote:On October 02 2012 06:11 Keirathi wrote:On October 02 2012 06:09 ghost_403 wrote:
@Keir: I'll give you something to argue about as soon as I'm done writing it. Still convinced Nisani is scum? I wouldn't say that I'm convinced that he is scum. But yes, he is the person I feel strongest about. His posts regarding me reek of someone with extra information. You're one of one person currently on that vote, best of my knowledge. If you're so convinced he's scum, why aren't you pushing for it in the thread? What else can I say? I voted for him, and tried to get people to read why and comment on it, but I was just ignored. Everyone is just giving him a null read (or maybe slightly scummy, but not enough to vote). So I settled for talking about the other ongoing cases and deciding if I find someone scummier than Nisani. I haven't yet.
EBWOP: What I mean is, the case isn't gaining traction, and I don't think I have enough to convince anyone off of their null reads to vote for him. He has very little in the way of content for people to analyze. Its getting down to crunch time and we're going to have to consolidate onto someone at some point. Last I looked, there were literally votes on 8 out of the 13 players. Continuing to push someone that isn't going to get lynched is useless.
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On October 02 2012 06:26 JingleHell wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2012 06:23 Keirathi wrote:On October 02 2012 06:19 Keirathi wrote:On October 02 2012 06:15 ghost_403 wrote:On October 02 2012 06:11 Keirathi wrote:On October 02 2012 06:09 ghost_403 wrote:
@Keir: I'll give you something to argue about as soon as I'm done writing it. Still convinced Nisani is scum? I wouldn't say that I'm convinced that he is scum. But yes, he is the person I feel strongest about. His posts regarding me reek of someone with extra information. You're one of one person currently on that vote, best of my knowledge. If you're so convinced he's scum, why aren't you pushing for it in the thread? What else can I say? I voted for him, and tried to get people to read why and comment on it, but I was just ignored. Everyone is just giving him a null read (or maybe slightly scummy, but not enough to vote). So I settled for talking about the other ongoing cases and deciding if I find someone scummier than Nisani. I haven't yet. EBWOP: What I mean is, the case isn't gaining traction, and I don't think I have enough to convince anyone off of their null reads to vote for him. He has very little in the way of content for people to analyze. Its getting down to crunch time and we're going to have to consolidate onto someone at some point. Last I looked, there were literally votes on 8 out of the 13 players. Continuing to push someone that isn't going to get lynched is useless. We don't have to consolidate at all. Greymist is just being confusing. Show nested quote +This game is a simple majority lynch. Whoever has the most votes at the end of the day will be lynched. From the OP. The description includes the word majority, but it's a simple majority, with the description not matching what we think of as "Majority lynch".
Yes, I realize that. Its basically plurality.
That doesn't mean we don't need to consolidate. Having votes out on 2/3 of the players in the game just gives scum a place to hide. IMO, we need a polarized vote so that scum are forced to pick a side and justify it.
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On October 02 2012 06:30 JingleHell wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2012 06:29 Keirathi wrote:On October 02 2012 06:26 JingleHell wrote:On October 02 2012 06:23 Keirathi wrote:On October 02 2012 06:19 Keirathi wrote:On October 02 2012 06:15 ghost_403 wrote:On October 02 2012 06:11 Keirathi wrote:On October 02 2012 06:09 ghost_403 wrote:
@Keir: I'll give you something to argue about as soon as I'm done writing it. Still convinced Nisani is scum? I wouldn't say that I'm convinced that he is scum. But yes, he is the person I feel strongest about. His posts regarding me reek of someone with extra information. You're one of one person currently on that vote, best of my knowledge. If you're so convinced he's scum, why aren't you pushing for it in the thread? What else can I say? I voted for him, and tried to get people to read why and comment on it, but I was just ignored. Everyone is just giving him a null read (or maybe slightly scummy, but not enough to vote). So I settled for talking about the other ongoing cases and deciding if I find someone scummier than Nisani. I haven't yet. EBWOP: What I mean is, the case isn't gaining traction, and I don't think I have enough to convince anyone off of their null reads to vote for him. He has very little in the way of content for people to analyze. Its getting down to crunch time and we're going to have to consolidate onto someone at some point. Last I looked, there were literally votes on 8 out of the 13 players. Continuing to push someone that isn't going to get lynched is useless. We don't have to consolidate at all. Greymist is just being confusing. This game is a simple majority lynch. Whoever has the most votes at the end of the day will be lynched. From the OP. The description includes the word majority, but it's a simple majority, with the description not matching what we think of as "Majority lynch". Yes, I realize that. Its basically plurality. That doesn't mean we don't need to consolidate. Having votes out on 2/3 of the players in the game just gives scum a place to hide. IMO, we need a polarized vote so that scum are forced to pick a side and justify it. So that we can argue WIFOM with each other regarding what votes mean, when the scum team will actually be divided anyways most likely? No, the main reason I could imagine seeing that as critical would be if we were at MYLO, to make it a little harder for scum to swing last minute.
Gimme a minute to find some quotes from discussion I've seen talking about plurality vs majority.
1) From BlazingHand in a coaching QT for a player in a newbie game:
plurality lynch is a funny one. Basically, it favors scum because town feels less pressure to consolidate-- people will push competing wagons of similar size. It's more dangerous for scum, though, because the smaller and more numerous wagons increase chances for them to get caught and analyzed. At MYLO it's pretty easy to just say "we all need to vote together", but today it would have been nice if there was a single clear counterwagon for Thrawn for people to focus onto. Personally, if I think the main wagon guy is town, I try to gather up votes from the other counterwagons, also. I say "look guys, you also think thrawn is town, why don't we band together and lynch this guy?" in addition to trying to convince people on the main wagon.
The easiest thing to do is just pretend it needs a majority to lynch and work hard to build that majority-- if there are like 3 small wagons, scum can EASILY tip the scales to mislynch, but if there are just 2 wagons, it's harder.
2) From marv's host notes of the same game:
goodkarma starts to get it:
"Regarding the Plurality Vote System, a little after the fact:
The plurality vote system was quite deceptive, and I feel I am in part to blame for the indecision we’ve had in establishing clear lynch candidates. Instead of having 3+ candidates we really needed to consolidate into two and treat it like a majority vote system. We’ve allowed scum to hide by more or less giving them a pass to vote whoever they want as long as they can give some wishy-washy reason why. For this reason, don’t expect to spot them from vote history."
I tried going through my irc logs with marv where we were discussing that game and the plurality thing, but it was interspersed with conversation about Dwarf Fortress too.
Anyways, that's basically how I feel. Scum can too easily swing the vote onto the candidate they want if everyone just has 1 vote on them at the end of the day.
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EPT
