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/in if you still need a 13th
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On September 18 2012 06:07 prplhz wrote:
please no unnecessary bullshit it's perfectly possible to play the game without that and it only serves to make the game harder to read
I know mkfuba replaced into LVII.
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The quote should be read in reference to your other post.
The "please no unnecessary bullshit" into "name my band + giant picture" gets major points for degree of difficulty. Not so many points for consistency. I was just amused at you going from one straight into the other.
mkfuba replacing into LVII is more or less the only thing I know about the guy.
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On September 18 2012 06:32 iamperfection wrote:
I randomly suggest a lynch of Marvelosity.
Your guys thoughts? I think this is a bad idea. I think this is especially a bad idea when the game is this fresh.
You want to lynch him specifically because...afraid of his scum play? Or did he miss band practice.
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On September 18 2012 06:32 iamperfection wrote:
I randomly suggest a lynch of Marvelosity.
Your guys thoughts?
On September 18 2012 06:46 marvellosity wrote:
P.S the whole point is that iamp's suggestion wasn't random, so we already have a liar. LAL?
He doesn't suggest that we lynch someone at random, and that the person is you. He "randomly suggests" lynching you.
Like...we don't know what's going on. Maybe he's got a wheel of all the things he could do on any given day, and he spins it to see what actions he'll take. Today, one of the spins happened to land on "suggest a lynch of Marvellosity."
Neither of the "lies" so far are really lies, or if they are...they aren't the sort that make me want to vote someone.
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On September 18 2012 06:50 Hapahauli wrote:
If mafia would like to keep hypothetical townie-marv alive to the endgame because of my "policy lynch," then awesome! Mission accomplished! Though in all seriousness, I've read through quite a few of his recent games. He never lives as town past N3 (barring Mad Men Mafia where he was a replacement) in his recent games. If he's alive a long time, there's a very high chance (IMO basically guaranteed chance) of him flipping red.
<3 everyone at all, but you need to look further. He's generally not being killed off for supersexy scumhunting, but because he comes off as very townie and is generating a lot of discussion/activity from others. His early reads, although I haven't read recent games, are not generally a big threat to mafia.
On September 18 2012 06:50 Blazinghand wrote:
Hey pudding-munchers stop arguing about that and read my case
I don't know how anyone can munch on pudding.
I DO kind of like that observation. It feels almost TOO obvious but...man it's kind of damning.
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On September 18 2012 07:09 Blazinghand wrote:Show nested quote +On September 18 2012 06:55 austinmcc wrote:On September 18 2012 06:50 Hapahauli wrote:
If mafia would like to keep hypothetical townie-marv alive to the endgame because of my "policy lynch," then awesome! Mission accomplished! Though in all seriousness, I've read through quite a few of his recent games. He never lives as town past N3 (barring Mad Men Mafia where he was a replacement) in his recent games. If he's alive a long time, there's a very high chance (IMO basically guaranteed chance) of him flipping red.
<3 everyone at all, but you need to look further. He's generally not being killed off for supersexy scumhunting, but because he comes off as very townie and is generating a lot of discussion/activity from others. His early reads, although I haven't read recent games, are not generally a big threat to mafia.
On September 18 2012 06:50 Blazinghand wrote:
Hey pudding-munchers stop arguing about that and read my case I don't know how anyone can munch on pudding. I DO kind of like that observation. It feels almost TOO obvious but...man it's kind of damning. Elaborate. Now.
Elaboration on the first half - + Show Spoiler +On July 15 2012 00:43 austinmcc wrote:Here's something to consider as well, but I don't know that it matters much. Matt posts that he's going to sheep marv. Matt never sheeps marv. Okay, that's just dumb but not really scummy. But... Show nested quote +On July 14 2012 03:17 Mattchew wrote:On July 14 2012 03:10 austinmcc wrote:On July 14 2012 03:00 DropBear wrote:On July 14 2012 02:18 Mattchew wrote:
I am going to sheep marv, on solistice most likely
Is there any particular reason for this? Actually, I'm wondering this as well, specifically, why is marv your choice? town read and he's smart gonz is town too imo but his day 1 reads are usually meh at best no offense Nobody else seemed concerned about this. I'm guessing nobody knows why I asked this? Take a look at marv's last 5 town games: MTG unthemed mini (both played) - D1 marv votes Mouldy Jeb (town), D2 pushes zealos (scum) bang bang (mattchew didn't play) - D1 marv suspects RoL (town), shoots Gonzaw (cop) movie star (both played) - D1 marv votes Zentor (town), D2 marv votes mattchew (scum), and N2 shoots VE (town) LVI (both played) - D1 marv votes foxtrotter (town), N1 shoots drwiggl3s (town) NMMII (mattchew didn't play)- D1 marv votes drwiggl3s (town), N1 shoots MsZontar (town) Recent games, Marv is 0/5 on D1. 0/3 on vigi shots. 2/4 on D2 reads. Mattchew PLAYED in three of those games, so he's seen this. No offense marv, you know I agreed on a chunk of those reads and pushed some of those players, but your D1 reads, empirically, aren't good for sheeping. I didn't post that summary yesterday because matt didn't look like a lynch candidate and I thought that, if it did anything, it would just derail thread, because nobody was talking about matt really. Plus, it's not quite ... scummy? It shows he's not paying full attention, not really having solid reasoning, but it's not outright scummy to be wrong about marv's D1 reads being better than gonzaw. However, it gave me pause. Something to think about.
Elaboration on the second half - Pudding is soft. Munching feels like it requires chewing, crunching. Can't do that with pudding. As to the obvious bit, obvious is the wrong word. I like...neat observations like that. It says something, unsure what, about you that you could pull out the starts to prplhz's game just like POOF. Like, I key in on the initial question more than the actual scummy stuff, because there's a chance that prplhz doesn't realize he's started scum games like that. But ... he has to, right? I gotta leave work, but the thought process is convoluted here.
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On September 18 2012 07:21 Blazinghand wrote:
The "it's way too scummy, he must be town" argument is dumb on its head. What are you even saying
On September 18 2012 07:23 marvellosity wrote:
austin, you're not playing with grush.
speak plainly or die like a little bitch. It's not that it's too scummy to be town. Because the part of your post that I key in on is that prplhz, in two other scum games, and in none of the games he's played as town (out of what you reference), opens in a similar manner.
I think you are stretching when you say that the questions are scummy. Yes he can go look the guy up. Yes, he might ought to at least remember that the guy played in a game he hosted. But it's not like...asking a question about who someone is is scummy on its face. There's no scumhunting heuristic for "opens games asking questions about a particular player." It MAY be scummy as applied to prplhz, but it's not like every player who opens like that is probably scum.
So then . . . working off that. If it's not scummy on its face, but might be scummy to prplhz, why? There's no objective pushed there, it's not like starting off a game with that post helps a mafia objective. If prplhz is scum and happens to start all his scum games this way, it's just something he does without knowing it. There's no objective pushed.
Then finally, if starting games that way as scum is just something prplhz does without knowing it, not to push an objective, then . . . it's almost null? Not getting there in the same way "small sample size" gets there. The train of thought is...
(1) This is a thing that prplhz has done in scum games
(2) This is a thing that does not further mafia objectives, or actively DO anything really
(3) Therefore, it's likely he's just doing it subconsciously
(4) If he's doing it subconsciously, then it's not really a tell.
Could argue that he only does it subconsciously as scum, but then you get the sample size discussion and there's no real proof either way.
So obvious was really the wrong word choice, when I fully go through this.
On September 18 2012 07:30 Hapahauli wrote:
But enough of that, austinmcc is more content to talk about pudding than his actual rationale for his read. "Neat observations..." like WTF does that even mean? The whole post reads like him running in circles around the question rather than answering it.
##Vote austinmcc To the bolded - What read? If you think I jumped on some bandwagon, or really tried to push some case, okeedoke. Show where that happened. However, I'm guilty as charged at wanting to talk about the pudding comment. I think in part you're misinterpreting my comments, and in part my comments are not reflective of my thought process, assuming we're going off the "too obvious" comment.
To the italicized - Think of all the D1 cases that you've seen. Most of them hinge on a single post, or a couple posts, but I have never seen one like this. It combines some general meta stuff, which I've seen in cases, with this really, really odd observation. That prplhz has started 2 scum games in almost the same way, but no recent town games. Either BH has some crazy memory and remembers prplhz's first posts from a couple/all prplhz's recent games, or something else is afoot. I'm willing to believe that the former is the case, but if prplhz flips and he flips scum this game, I'm going to be looking at BH. When he keys in on something SO weird and SO tiny, I'm not discounting the possibility that it's actually prplhz who knows how he's started recent games, tells a scumbuddy he's going to do the same thing, and voila! Town cred for BH. I'm not immediately going to try and lynch BH because of that, but it's going to be a thought in my mind. The way that BH started his case gives us SOME insight into BH. I don't quite know what yet, but it's such an odd find from prplhz's filter over multiple games that it's useful for reading BH, the finder, as much or more than it's useful for reading prplhz.
So...it's neat that way? It's not the normal way someone makes a D1 case. It's not the normal way someone makes a meta case even, "x always uses this phrase as scum." It's peculiar, and so interesting in general.
This is not one of those cases, but I also tend to make 1-2 townreads per game based on just weird phrasing or arguments people use. So far, those reads haven't been wrong. But part of how I play seems to be that I'm looking for weird statements and basing entire reads off of those. Too lazy to get links now, but see hyaach in LV, Suki in... newbie XVI or something, either BC or DrH in LVII, and...I think there was one in PTP3? There's one more out there, but I forget what it is.
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On September 18 2012 08:03 austinmcc wrote:Show nested quote +On September 18 2012 07:30 Hapahauli wrote:
But enough of that, austinmcc is more content to talk about pudding than his actual rationale for his read. "Neat observations..." like WTF does that even mean? The whole post reads like him running in circles around the question rather than answering it.
##Vote austinmcc To the bolded - What read? If you think I jumped on some bandwagon, or really tried to push some case, okeedoke. Show where that happened. However, I'm guilty as charged at wanting to talk about the pudding comment. I think in part you're misinterpreting my comments, and in part my comments are not reflective of my thought process, assuming we're going off the "too obvious" comment. This part of that post should come off...less hostile? I just think you're seeing something that wasn't there, as was another person or two. I didn't vote anyone. I didn't go BEST CASE EVER BH HIGH FIVE! I noted that I found some of it neat, and then brain farted out what's basically a typo with the "obvious" bit.
For instance, you say that I'm more content to talk about pudding than my rationale for my read. But you also sayOn September 18 2012 07:04 Hapahauli wrote:
In fact, I'd expect scum to be the people most willing to be jumping on BH's case without so much as a thought. Namely austinmcc and mementoss Do you not find it a little odd that you both think I am more interested in discussing the term "pudding-munchers" than my read AND am someone you think was the "most willing to be jumping on BH's case"? Those two thoughts don't feel like they harmonize. Each presents sort of a different version of my post - pushing a read and jumping on a case vs. being more content to chat and not scumhunt right at that moment.
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On September 18 2012 08:27 Hapahauli wrote:
##Unvote
@ Austinmcc - Well posted and thanks for explaining your rationale. Enough for me to take the vote off for now. BH you're high-fiving Hapa. You okay with the speed at which he swapped off me?
marv, I'd like your thoughts here as well. Do you feel the same way hapa does about my explanation?
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On September 18 2012 09:32 Hapahauli wrote:Show nested quote +On September 18 2012 09:26 austinmcc wrote:On September 18 2012 08:27 Hapahauli wrote:
##Unvote
@ Austinmcc - Well posted and thanks for explaining your rationale. Enough for me to take the vote off for now. BH you're high-fiving Hapa. You okay with the speed at which he swapped off me? marv, I'd like your thoughts here as well. Do you feel the same way hapa does about my explanation? My D1 voting spreads like an STD. In all seriousness, your explanation was good - everyone was on you for a bit because you weren't clear about your rationale. Explaining rationale ----> vote removed. As for marv, I believe he's putting the finishing touches on the newbie game he's hosting, so he probably won't be around for a bit. I got no problem with everyone being on me, that phase actually happens in a decent number of my games.
But I have no ability to judge the clarity of my explanation. I need other thoughts on how clear you seemed to find it. It also helps me see the thought processes behind their own reads, except BH. When you question him, he appears to become Drazerk.
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On September 18 2012 09:39 mkfuba07 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 18 2012 09:37 iamperfection wrote:On September 18 2012 09:36 Mementoss wrote:On September 18 2012 09:30 iamperfection wrote:you case on prplhz is shit. a fucking meta case on 1 post come on. Although i dont think that was the point of your case i think the purpose was to drive discussion which it has done. Kudos to you. The purpose of my random lynch was an attempt to drive some discussion. I had already discussed with marv after my previous game in which palmar suggested a random lynch in order to drive discussion on day 1. Thats why i find it extremely wierd that marv didnt think it was random when i had already spoken with him that i would do it in my next game.On September 18 2012 06:46 marvellosity wrote:
P.S the whole point is that iamp's suggestion wasn't random, so we already have a liar. LAL? I say we respect his wishes. ## Vote Marvelosity Well, that means it isn't random because it was pre-meditated and thought out. Sooo, yeah. Believe it or not it did randomly come out as marv. So what are we actually supposed to gain from this random voting? o.O
The normal explanation is that the whole thing is an exercise at drumming up discussion and getting posts to look at. PROPOSING a random lynch, saying we should RNG a lynch on someone, maybe setting up a method to do so --> everyone responds to that and you sift through their posts.
However, once you say that, people immediately know you aren't serious, and it's no longer useful. Palmar's got a post on it...maybe in iGrok's Good Clean Old-Fashioned Mafia? It was referenced in Bureaucracy as well, because he proposed it again.
I assume there are some other things you could do with it, but that's generally what you're supposed to get from it - if you don't propose a particular target right off the bat, but random lynch itself, then you generate discussion IF people are willing to discuss it. Mostly they aren't, especially after Palmar's explanation. Stating exactly who you want to vote and calling it "random" is different, but in some ways seems like an evolution of pure RNG lynch - change things up so it's not the same stale option, generate discussion.
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Your chart looks like some kind of freudian slip/goatse mashup.
First pudding, then waffles and a goatse knockoff. I'm watching you.
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On September 18 2012 21:49 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On September 18 2012 09:39 austinmcc wrote:On September 18 2012 09:32 Hapahauli wrote:On September 18 2012 09:26 austinmcc wrote:On September 18 2012 08:27 Hapahauli wrote:
##Unvote
@ Austinmcc - Well posted and thanks for explaining your rationale. Enough for me to take the vote off for now. BH you're high-fiving Hapa. You okay with the speed at which he swapped off me? marv, I'd like your thoughts here as well. Do you feel the same way hapa does about my explanation? My D1 voting spreads like an STD. In all seriousness, your explanation was good - everyone was on you for a bit because you weren't clear about your rationale. Explaining rationale ----> vote removed. As for marv, I believe he's putting the finishing touches on the newbie game he's hosting, so he probably won't be around for a bit. I got no problem with everyone being on me, that phase actually happens in a decent number of my games. But I have no ability to judge the clarity of my explanation. I need other thoughts on how clear you seemed to find it. It also helps me see the thought processes behind their own reads, except BH. When you question him, he appears to become Drazerk. Could you expand on this austin?
Basically, I know that sometimes I write my thoughts out in a jumbled manner, don't edit much, and just post it. It can look scummy. Remember...D1 of that last mini we were in? I posted my explanation trying to give my thought process, which makes sense in my own head and shows the rationale behind what I was getting at. But I can't have an idea of how others feel about that rationale. For hapa, it apparently convinced him 100%. It's not that he voted --> unvoted. It's his post where he changes his read on me.
In all seriousness, your explanation was good - everyone was on you for a bit because you weren't clear about your rationale. Explaining rationale ----> vote removed. All I know is that my explanation was "good" and apparently helped everyone be "clear" about my rationale. That post troubled me somewhat, because there are no specifics, and because I'm not even sure that my thought process was clear in my explanation. I don't exactly know why it convinced hapa to change his read. If there was no scumread and it was purely a "pressure vote" then that's ... a little better. Then it's not a change in read, but just getting what you were looking for. That sits better with me I suppose.
But I asked you and BH how you felt about my explanation, in order to see if it meshed up with hapa finding it good/clear, in order to doublecheck that his change of mind was sensible. You never answered as far as I remember. BH answer included this:On September 18 2012 09:30 Blazinghand wrote:
Iamperfection seems perfectly happy contributing literally nothing and I will not stand for it. I will would not, could not, in the rain, or in the dark, or on a train, or in a car or a tree. I won't stand for it austinmcc. Not in the town, not in the thread, not in the world and not in my head. He won't be quiet without getting my vote, so it shall be done as it's what I wrote. Questioning BH --> BH posting rhymes = BH turning into Drazerk.
+ Show Spoiler +On September 18 2012 20:55 Bluelightz wrote:Show nested quote +On September 18 2012 07:12 Mementoss wrote:On September 18 2012 07:07 Blazinghand wrote:On September 18 2012 07:04 Hapahauli wrote:
... or it's not obvious at all, and it's a typical bad D1 case making insane meta connections with barely any samplesize?
If you're pressuring him or whatever, cool, but the case is in no way "damning" or "TOO obvious." In fact, I'd expect scum to be the people most willing to be jumping on BH's case without so much as a thought. Namely austinmcc and mementoss I literally sampled every game he's played in the last 3 months. If you think he's so damn town either argue from this dataset, or increase it, or present another case. I do, however, agree with you that scum may try to bus him. Dudes jumping on his case without explanations as townies are A) letting scum do the same thing and skate by and B) setting themselves up for mislynches. If you have a reason to be for or against his lynch, STATE IT. As town you should have no reason to fear thinking openly and logically. Hapa is right (on this particular issue). I did explain it, I found his first post scummy and your case was just some icing on the scum. It's literally an hour in the game, there is no such thing as voting too early. If anything it's going to generate more discussion that can be looked into more later. But I agree on austinmcc being hard to tell what hes getting at as I pointed out, which seems scummy as he usually is very articulate in his posts and has a clear meaning for posting them. Talks about someone while inserting a subtle finger onto austinmcc (Hey I think X is scum, but why not lynch Y instead?) ... Show nested quote +On September 18 2012 09:55 Mementoss wrote:On September 18 2012 09:54 Hapahauli wrote:
Well tbh, you could make that entire chart red - I lynched goodkarma in one game because I thought his play was "too clean" =P
But back to iamperfection, I'm definitely leaning scummy to him for now. I can't yet discount him just being plain pissed that you voted for him (a townie OMGUS type thing), but the sudden severity of it all is just really strange. Answer this, why would scum make their first post that? It obviously wouldn't do anything towards getting Marv lynched. It would only bring negative attention towards himself. Direct's more pressure on Hapa, So, now with this last quote I leave you with this question, Who is your main scum target memen? You voted prplhz, inserted subtle fingers on austinmcc, and is pressuring Hapa, who do you think is scum actually? ...
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I have been absent. I am getting this vote into thread because the deadline is coming. I like it better than the other options that MIGHT be legitimate at this point, which seem to be ... just marv?
##Vote: prplhz
I think I'd much rather lynch bluelightz, unless there's been any action on that front, but I don't believe that's going to happen.
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On September 19 2012 22:50 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2012 22:41 austinmcc wrote:
I have been absent. I am getting this vote into thread because the deadline is coming. I like it better than the other options that MIGHT be legitimate at this point, which seem to be ... just marv?
##Vote: prplhz
I think I'd much rather lynch bluelightz, unless there's been any action on that front, but I don't believe that's going to happen. This apathy only serves to firm my read on austin.
I don't doubt that. Can respond to it later, the time I've got is better served looking through filters right now.
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On September 19 2012 23:29 Hapahauli wrote:
Voting prplhz is a bad idea, and I'm going to switch into hard-defending mode.
Have you seen some of the reasoning that people are voting him?
Austin sheeped him apathetically.
Bluelights sheeped him a looooing time ago.
Blazhinghand thinks he's the scummiest player, but has voted for marv and mkfuba in the interim for questionable reasons.
MMtoss voted him on Day 1, has discussed several other cases and has barely mentioned prplhz at all since.
Ange is the only person who has something resembling reasonable suspicion on prplhz, and even then I highly disagree with it. I'll get to this more after class, but we should really be looking at some of the people on the prplhz wagon.
Especially MMtoss.
Ninja. I've got 2/3 of a post on mementoss right now and would so much rather push him than prplhz. Gimme 10-15
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Still looking, will go ahead and post one thing at least. There have been a couple posts that have made me pause, just hooked into my brain.
The start of BH's first prplhz case I've discussed. How the way in which prplhz opens 2 scum games with the same kind of question feels like it can't be a scumtell because it doesn't do anything scummy on its own so it's got to be a thing that prplhz in general might do.
This part of one of HiroPro's comments, which has already been discussed, had the same effect...it was just a neat little comment that got me thinking:+ Show Spoiler +On September 19 2012 01:11 HiroPro wrote:
Look at the voting in the thread. We have like 6 or 7 candidates each with one vote. That's a recipe for town disaster. And then look at what Palmar comes in and does - he throws three completely new candidates into the mix and doesn't give any real reason for them being scum. He's not trying to actually lead town onto a successful lynch, he's just trying to cause chaos.
Just gave me pause. Initially, I really like it. There's logic behind that comment. We've got spread out voting. Palmar comes in and gives new candidates without much reason. On first read, I completely agreed with that point. Looking back, Palmar's entrance does nothing for me. Palmar didn't create the spread-out voting. And according to Palmar's entrance into thread, where he says he's only read the first 5 pages or so, he may not have even known how the votes were falling. It's unlikely that Palmar, who had no cred at the time, would open up trying to create confusion, especially if he didn't know everything that happened. Moreover, it's not like Palmar's post actively created confusion. Giving reads and NOT backing them up at all doesn't create confusion given the state we're in. We had actual cases on people, a lot of other balls in the air. Nobody should be dropping reads they're pursuing for REASONS and pursuing some read that Palmar throws in thread with little justification. There was no confusion created off of his scumreads at the time. It doesn't make Palmar town. It doesn't make HiroPro scum. But that was just a comment that hooked its way into my brain, and I wanted to give my thought process on it. Just one of the more interesting parts of a post that I'd seen.
But now onto the post that REALLY caught my eye. It's this!
On September 18 2012 07:01 Mementoss wrote:Show nested quote +On September 18 2012 06:55 austinmcc wrote:On September 18 2012 06:50 Hapahauli wrote:
If mafia would like to keep hypothetical townie-marv alive to the endgame because of my "policy lynch," then awesome! Mission accomplished! Though in all seriousness, I've read through quite a few of his recent games. He never lives as town past N3 (barring Mad Men Mafia where he was a replacement) in his recent games. If he's alive a long time, there's a very high chance (IMO basically guaranteed chance) of him flipping red.
<3 everyone at all, but you need to look further. He's generally not being killed off for supersexy scumhunting, but because he comes off as very townie and is generating a lot of discussion/activity from others. His early reads, although I haven't read recent games, are not generally a big threat to mafia.
On September 18 2012 06:50 Blazinghand wrote:
Hey pudding-munchers stop arguing about that and read my case I don't know how anyone can munch on pudding. I DO kind of like that observation. It feels almost TOO obvious but...man it's kind of damning. TOO obvious, as in more obvious than Mattchew in LVII? http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=361826¤tpage=14#261Nothing, can be TOO obvious. Thats like saying you don't think someone is scum, because there TOO scummy. Stop waffling, either you think its scummy or you think its not. Don't say things like "kind of like" and "TOO obvious but damning", your all over the place bro.
Look at all the reactions to this post I made. Palmar thinks I'm scum just from the too obvious comment. Marv found it scummy. Hapa found it scummy. I think another one or two people did as well. But Mementoss's reaction to my comment felt different.
He didn't just go "austinmcc you scummy." He's got this long-winded response. It can't be TOO obvious. I'm waffling. I'm all over the place. Rather than call me out for saying something scummy, like Palmar/marv/others?, VOTING me like hapa and marv did, Mementoss just calls me out for being wishy-washy. And he doesn't even really call me out, at least as I read that, he just kind of...posts this thought and then drops it.
I do not like this. Does this reaction feel different to others? Does it feel strong? Does it feel like he's actually accusing me?
This has me concerned about Mementoss. Wanted to give him a closer look.
His mentions of me:+ Show Spoiler +His next post: On September 18 2012 07:12 Mementoss wrote:Show nested quote +On September 18 2012 07:07 Blazinghand wrote:On September 18 2012 07:04 Hapahauli wrote:
... or it's not obvious at all, and it's a typical bad D1 case making insane meta connections with barely any samplesize?
If you're pressuring him or whatever, cool, but the case is in no way "damning" or "TOO obvious." In fact, I'd expect scum to be the people most willing to be jumping on BH's case without so much as a thought. Namely austinmcc and mementoss I literally sampled every game he's played in the last 3 months. If you think he's so damn town either argue from this dataset, or increase it, or present another case. I do, however, agree with you that scum may try to bus him. Dudes jumping on his case without explanations as townies are A) letting scum do the same thing and skate by and B) setting themselves up for mislynches. If you have a reason to be for or against his lynch, STATE IT. As town you should have no reason to fear thinking openly and logically. Hapa is right (on this particular issue). I did explain it, I found his first post scummy and your case was just some icing on the scum. It's literally an hour in the game, there is no such thing as voting too early. If anything it's going to generate more discussion that can be looked into more later. But I agree on austinmcc being hard to tell what hes getting at as I pointed out, which seems scummy as he usually is very articulate in his posts and has a clear meaning for posting them. Bluelightz brought this up, as him "inserting a subtle finger onto me." But this also caught my eye somewhat. This is a statement that concerns me. I'm not sure that I'm usually articulate in my posts. Especially as things go on, I post a lot of musings. I post some conspiracy theories. In the last mini I played I had some pressure on me D1 because I was INSANELY inarticulate. I had a correct scumread but couldn't push it because I was just blabbering all over the place and not making sense. So...I'm wondering where Mementoss got this from. Maybe it's true. Maybe I'm usually articulate. But I don't see it that way, and it feels odd for someone to just throw that statement out there. He mentions me later, after Bluelightz questions him a little: On September 18 2012 23:14 Mementoss wrote:Show nested quote +On September 18 2012 22:57 Bluelightz wrote:On September 18 2012 22:40 Mementoss wrote:
@Bluelightz case
I understand you just went through all my filter, and basically resaid the things I posted. I don't see how it makes me scum, and adding SCUM! at the end doesn't make it make me scummy lol. In the future when making a case, you should outline how the quotes make the person scum and not re-iterate what the post says.
Can't say much more now since I'm at work. Why do you have to point fingers on everyone and your now pushing Hapa but voting prplhz? If you want to know my best scum read, check who I'm voting, that will be it. I'm not pushing Hapa, I'm asking him to explain his reasoning more. Don't purposely misinterpret me, don't you see how far that got Zephridd with his case on Hapa? I'm allowed to pressure other players while voting another player. There is more than 1 scum in this game ya know. I would say the only other person I remotely pressured so far would be austinmcc's scummy indecisiveness. I guess...I didn't feel pressured by his post. He doesn't call me scum. He doesn't call my scummy. He doesn't REALLY say anything about me above. This isn't a super-strong point, as indecisiveness usually ~ scumminess, but my problem with his initial reaction was that it wasn't strong, didn't call me out, didn't end in a vote, nothing. So I find his characterization of that post as being the only pressure he's put on a person other than prplhz this game to be off. It's not outright, flashing lights, scummy. But when it's a response to pressure and you're sort of...almost misrepresenting an earlier post, misrepresenting your play, it comes off scummy. It comes off like you don't have a good handle on the actions you've taken and are slightly scrambling to explain yourself to pressure.
A lot of the rest of his filter is these little...observations and questions that don't DO anything. They're filler:
+ Show Spoiler +The early bit with prplhz asking about mkfuba On September 18 2012 06:21 Mementoss wrote:Show nested quote +On September 18 2012 06:07 prplhz wrote:
hey guys
please no unnecessary bullshit it's perfectly possible to play the game without that and it only serves to make the game harder to read
there are a couple of people around i have no idea who is, can anybody explain to me who mkfuba07 is? well this is a lie already, what is it with people lieing on there first post? http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=355874You hosted a game he was in. More MKFUBA games if you want + Show Spoiler + Who cares if prplhz lies or misrepresents what he knows about mkfuba? It's not scummy or townie or ANYTHING to do so. But mementoss latches onto something that's entirely null, in my mind. In fact, he latches onto it so strongly that it's almost his REASON for voting prplhz On September 18 2012 06:56 Mementoss wrote:Show nested quote +On September 18 2012 06:50 Blazinghand wrote:
Hey pudding-munchers stop arguing about that and read my case I read it. It seems like you played with him alot and can really differentiate between his scum and town. It's not the most for sure case of all time, but the post felt scummy to me as soon as I read it and even moreso when I realized he hosted a game with MKfuba in it. He's the scummiest player so far. Iamperfection seems like noobie, why would mafia out themselves like that, also I think he is bitter because of his history with marv. ##vote: prplhzBlazinghand what do you think of hapa immediately coming to prplhz defence? + Show Spoiler +On September 18 2012 06:35 Hapahauli wrote:Hai gais! Good to be back in a mini so I can actually keep track of people more closely =) Show nested quote +On September 18 2012 06:21 Mementoss wrote:On September 18 2012 06:07 prplhz wrote:
hey guys
please no unnecessary bullshit it's perfectly possible to play the game without that and it only serves to make the game harder to read
there are a couple of people around i have no idea who is, can anybody explain to me who mkfuba07 is? well this is a lie already, what is it with people lieing on there first post? http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=355874You hosted a game he was in. More MKFUBA games if you want + Show Spoiler + Prplhz isn't exactly the most attentive host... I was in that game, and he basically forgot to make the last nightpost for a couple of hours. I wouldn't expect him to remember half the players in that game tbh =P Also what do you think of this clear contradiction from prplhz: + Show Spoiler +On September 18 2012 06:07 prplhz wrote:
hey guys
please no unnecessary bullshit it's perfectly possible to play the game without that and it only serves to make the game harder to read
there are a couple of people around i have no idea who is, can anybody explain to me who mkfuba07 is? On September 18 2012 06:08 prplhz wrote:Show nested quote +On September 18 2012 06:07 Mementoss wrote:
I think day one should be discussing what da bands name is gunna be name my band ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/8f6HH.png) BH I like yo case. BH you know prplhz so well. BH I'ma vote prplhz too because he lied/didn't realize/whatever about not knowing mkfuba. I hate that as a reason to vote someone. Even if prplhz is straight up lying, how is it a scummy lie? It serves no purpose, pushes no objective. prplhz isn't twisting his moustache saying, "Mwahahaha, I'm mafia, and now those fools will be spending all of D1 trying to explain to me who mkfuba is! Mwahahaha!" He also, in that post, points out the contradiction between prplhz wanting to keep bs out of thread and then posting his video about a band name. Again, yes it's contradictory. I noticed that too. But it's not SCUMMY. It's a contradiction that does nothing for nobody nohow.
+ Show Spoiler +His interaction with Marv about mkfuba: On September 19 2012 00:00 Mementoss wrote:Show nested quote +On September 18 2012 23:56 marvellosity wrote:On September 18 2012 23:54 Ange777 wrote:
@marv:
I don't remember if I've played with Hiro (probably not). Is there some meta play I should be aware of? Otherwise I can't understand why you are pushing a HiroPro lynch when I feel like prplhz is far more scummy.
@iamperfection:
Saying Zeph defended you by accusing your accuser is a stretch. Why wouldn't you accuse Mementoss instead who actually did defend you? Because prplhz has at least done *something* and HiroPro hasn't? Wouldn't by the same logic you would have MKFuba in there? Show nested quote +On September 18 2012 23:54 Ange777 wrote:
@iamperfection:
Saying Zeph defended you by accusing your accuser is a stretch. Why wouldn't you accuse Mementoss instead who actually did defend you? Why did you purposely leave Palmar's name out when you clearly quoted him "defending" iamperfection in the same fashion I did in your own post before? Seen below: + Show Spoiler +On September 18 2012 23:48 Ange777 wrote:@Palmar: Show nested quote +On September 18 2012 22:57 Palmar wrote:On September 18 2012 09:39 iamperfection wrote:On September 18 2012 09:38 Hapahauli wrote:On September 18 2012 09:35 iamperfection wrote:On September 18 2012 09:35 Hapahauli wrote:On September 18 2012 09:30 iamperfection wrote:you case on prplhz is shit. a fucking meta case on 1 post come on. Although i dont think that was the point of your case i think the purpose was to drive discussion which it has done. Kudos to you. The purpose of my random lynch was an attempt to drive some discussion. I had already discussed with marv after my previous game in which palmar suggested a random lynch in order to drive discussion on day 1. Thats why i find it extremely wierd that marv didnt think it was random when i had already spoken with him that i would do it in my next game. On September 18 2012 06:46 marvellosity wrote:
P.S the whole point is that iamp's suggestion wasn't random, so we already have a liar. LAL? I say we respect his wishes. ## Vote Marvelosity Geebus why are you flipping out? what? " you case on prplhz is shit. a fucking meta case on 1 post come on." Seems very unnecessarily critical/harsh/attacking. Like I don't think his case is good either, but that's just over the top and scummy imo. he is a big boy. i dont think he will lose sleep over it. Confirms my post above. No scum would say this. Why wouldn't scum say this? While I agree with Blazinghand and hapa leaning town, I can't understand how you are giving iamperfection townie points. On September 19 2012 00:04 Mementoss wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2012 00:01 marvellosity wrote:On September 19 2012 00:00 Mementoss wrote:On September 18 2012 23:56 marvellosity wrote:On September 18 2012 23:54 Ange777 wrote:
@marv:
I don't remember if I've played with Hiro (probably not). Is there some meta play I should be aware of? Otherwise I can't understand why you are pushing a HiroPro lynch when I feel like prplhz is far more scummy.
@iamperfection:
Saying Zeph defended you by accusing your accuser is a stretch. Why wouldn't you accuse Mementoss instead who actually did defend you? Because prplhz has at least done *something* and HiroPro hasn't? Wouldn't by the same logic you would have MKFuba in there? On September 18 2012 23:54 Ange777 wrote:
@iamperfection:
Saying Zeph defended you by accusing your accuser is a stretch. Why wouldn't you accuse Mementoss instead who actually did defend you? Why did you purposely leave Palmar's name out when you clearly quoted him "defending" iamperfection in the same fashion I did in your own post before? Seen below: + Show Spoiler +On September 18 2012 23:48 Ange777 wrote:@Palmar: Show nested quote +On September 18 2012 22:57 Palmar wrote:On September 18 2012 09:39 iamperfection wrote:On September 18 2012 09:38 Hapahauli wrote:On September 18 2012 09:35 iamperfection wrote:On September 18 2012 09:35 Hapahauli wrote:On September 18 2012 09:30 iamperfection wrote:you case on prplhz is shit. a fucking meta case on 1 post come on. Although i dont think that was the point of your case i think the purpose was to drive discussion which it has done. Kudos to you. The purpose of my random lynch was an attempt to drive some discussion. I had already discussed with marv after my previous game in which palmar suggested a random lynch in order to drive discussion on day 1. Thats why i find it extremely wierd that marv didnt think it was random when i had already spoken with him that i would do it in my next game. On September 18 2012 06:46 marvellosity wrote:
P.S the whole point is that iamp's suggestion wasn't random, so we already have a liar. LAL? I say we respect his wishes. ## Vote Marvelosity Geebus why are you flipping out? what? " you case on prplhz is shit. a fucking meta case on 1 post come on." Seems very unnecessarily critical/harsh/attacking. Like I don't think his case is good either, but that's just over the top and scummy imo. he is a big boy. i dont think he will lose sleep over it. Confirms my post above. No scum would say this. Why wouldn't scum say this? While I agree with Blazinghand and hapa leaning town, I can't understand how you are giving iamperfection townie points. I commented on fuba already, if you care to read my posts. The point with Hiro is that he posted several times but without any substance whatsoever. I am reading your posts, basically it says, MKFuba is doing the exact same thing as Hiro but I know him IRL so I'll focus on HiroPro, is this not correct? On September 19 2012 00:26 Mementoss wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2012 00:07 Bluelightz wrote:
Memen: Aren't you just deflecting pressure onto mkfuba? If you want to answer like that at least explain to me why it's the same, oh and answer my question. Read the thread I answered your questions. And please take off scum shaded glasses everytime you talk to me, I'm not deflecting pressure onto mkfuba, I'm getting verification from Marv, why he is biased towards one lurker over the other. Show nested quote +On September 19 2012 00:07 marvellosity wrote:On September 19 2012 00:04 Mementoss wrote:On September 19 2012 00:01 marvellosity wrote:On September 19 2012 00:00 Mementoss wrote:On September 18 2012 23:56 marvellosity wrote:On September 18 2012 23:54 Ange777 wrote:
@marv:
I don't remember if I've played with Hiro (probably not). Is there some meta play I should be aware of? Otherwise I can't understand why you are pushing a HiroPro lynch when I feel like prplhz is far more scummy.
@iamperfection:
Saying Zeph defended you by accusing your accuser is a stretch. Why wouldn't you accuse Mementoss instead who actually did defend you? Because prplhz has at least done *something* and HiroPro hasn't? Wouldn't by the same logic you would have MKFuba in there? On September 18 2012 23:54 Ange777 wrote:
@iamperfection:
Saying Zeph defended you by accusing your accuser is a stretch. Why wouldn't you accuse Mementoss instead who actually did defend you? Why did you purposely leave Palmar's name out when you clearly quoted him "defending" iamperfection in the same fashion I did in your own post before? Seen below: + Show Spoiler +On September 18 2012 23:48 Ange777 wrote:@Palmar: Show nested quote +On September 18 2012 22:57 Palmar wrote:On September 18 2012 09:39 iamperfection wrote:On September 18 2012 09:38 Hapahauli wrote:On September 18 2012 09:35 iamperfection wrote:On September 18 2012 09:35 Hapahauli wrote:On September 18 2012 09:30 iamperfection wrote:you case on prplhz is shit. a fucking meta case on 1 post come on. Although i dont think that was the point of your case i think the purpose was to drive discussion which it has done. Kudos to you. The purpose of my random lynch was an attempt to drive some discussion. I had already discussed with marv after my previous game in which palmar suggested a random lynch in order to drive discussion on day 1. Thats why i find it extremely wierd that marv didnt think it was random when i had already spoken with him that i would do it in my next game. On September 18 2012 06:46 marvellosity wrote:
P.S the whole point is that iamp's suggestion wasn't random, so we already have a liar. LAL? I say we respect his wishes. ## Vote Marvelosity Geebus why are you flipping out? what? " you case on prplhz is shit. a fucking meta case on 1 post come on." Seems very unnecessarily critical/harsh/attacking. Like I don't think his case is good either, but that's just over the top and scummy imo. he is a big boy. i dont think he will lose sleep over it. Confirms my post above. No scum would say this. Why wouldn't scum say this? While I agree with Blazinghand and hapa leaning town, I can't understand how you are giving iamperfection townie points. I commented on fuba already, if you care to read my posts. The point with Hiro is that he posted several times but without any substance whatsoever. I am reading your posts, basically it says, MKFuba is doing the exact same thing as Hiro but I know him IRL so I'll focus on HiroPro, is this not correct? Incorrect, fuba basically hadn't posted AT ALL, whereas Hiro *was* posting, but what he was posting was worthless. How do you not see the distinction? Well what really caught my eye was Fuba's first post. Show nested quote +On September 18 2012 09:39 mkfuba07 wrote:On September 18 2012 09:37 iamperfection wrote:On September 18 2012 09:36 Mementoss wrote:On September 18 2012 09:30 iamperfection wrote:you case on prplhz is shit. a fucking meta case on 1 post come on. Although i dont think that was the point of your case i think the purpose was to drive discussion which it has done. Kudos to you. The purpose of my random lynch was an attempt to drive some discussion. I had already discussed with marv after my previous game in which palmar suggested a random lynch in order to drive discussion on day 1. Thats why i find it extremely wierd that marv didnt think it was random when i had already spoken with him that i would do it in my next game.On September 18 2012 06:46 marvellosity wrote:
P.S the whole point is that iamp's suggestion wasn't random, so we already have a liar. LAL? I say we respect his wishes. ## Vote Marvelosity Well, that means it isn't random because it was pre-meditated and thought out. Sooo, yeah. Believe it or not it did randomly come out as marv. So what are we actually supposed to gain from this random voting? o.O A shit load has already happened in the thread, and this is the ONLY thing he thinks is worth commenting on? Looks pretty fishy to me. I understand hes at school now and will expect more from him tonight. Fuba was in teh thread last night and decided to not say anything except the above. I agree with you that HiroPro hasn't said anything towards finding scum, or anything that helps at all really. But sadly this seems like typical HiroPro meta. Even though it's 'typical' HiroPro it's not to be excused, and I definitely would ask him to step it up. It just seems weird that you would bias one over the other. Rawr rawr. Marv didn't mention mkfuba. Rawr. Marv so biased towards Fuba. But what is mementoss DOING here. Does he find marv scummy? Does this mean ANYTHING to mementoss? He says it "seems weird" that Marv would bias one over the other. Great. Great and helpful. Ask questions, go through a dialogue, conclude that the first thing that happened was weird, and give ZERO thoughts about how your dialogue affected that thought process. As in, here's mementoss's brain: (1) why is marv leaving mkfuba out? that's weird. Better ask. (2) couple posts back and forth with marv, doop dee doo (3) alright, time to draw a conclusion from this back and forth! I conclude...that it's weird that marv left mkfuba out initially.
+ Show Spoiler +mementoss on mkfuba himself The bit above, talking with marv and saying he disliked mkfuba's first post. Then: On September 19 2012 06:29 Mementoss wrote:
Am I the only one that find MKFubas first post extremely scummy? On September 19 2012 07:20 Mementoss wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2012 07:16 mkfuba07 wrote:
I'm back from classes.
Never really sure where to hop in when I've been gone for so long. Guess I'll just start by saying that I'd much prefer that we not lynch me today. Such a lynch would be a mistake.
Anyway, @prplhz - current feelings on Ange777? Is she still on your list or has she been completely replaced by marv? A good place to start would be who do YOU want to lynch and explain why. On September 19 2012 07:21 Mementoss wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2012 07:20 mkfuba07 wrote:
Oh, and Mementoss, would you like my to try to explain why my first post was as... limited as it was? I haven't yet simply because it's really not all that enlightening, and my explanation is unlikely to convince you of anything. But if you'd like an explanation I'm willing to give one.
No I don't particularly care, now that your here your future posts will give me more insight to your alignment. There's no pressure! There's no updated read! There's no ANYTHING. Same as his bit with me. He disliked mkfuba's first post. He found my TOO obvious post wishy-washy. But he doesn't DO anything with either of those. He just sort of niggles at that, mentioning it, but drawing no updated conclusions. mkfuba's final post in that exchange, as others have pointed out, was ridiculous, "I have a reason, but it won't convince you, but I have it, if you want it I would tell you the reason, but I'm not going to yet, but I have it." WHAT IS THAT?! BUT. BUT. What is mementoss's reaction to that weird nothingpost? He doesn't care. Future posts will give mementoss insight into mkfuba. MKFUBA JUST POSTED A RIDICULOUS NOTHINGPOST AND MEMENTOSS, WHO IS EITHER FULLY OR HALFWAY CONCERNED ABOUT MKFUBA BEING SCUM, DOESN'T CARE. He doesn't notice. He doesn't poke at it. It just slides away. That is NOT the reaction of someone who thinks mkfuba is scummy. That is NOT the reaction of someone who's scumhunting, even.
So here's the thing. I don't get the feeling like mementoss is scumhunting. Not in the way that people should be getting that feeling about me, or others that have lurked. I get the feeling like he's been trying to show that he's scumhunting, but that his reactions are entirely wrong for someone who is doing so.
- His reaction to my TOO obvious post was to tell me not to be wishy-washy. When everyone else's reaction was "austinmcc scum." He then later notes that he applied pressure with his comments.
- He pokes at mkfuba, but when mkfuba responds with a nothingpost, mementoss doesn't care at all.
- He engages marv in discussion, after something weird, but seems to draw no conclusion from the discussion, ending at his starting point
- He voted prplhz based partially on BH's case (fine) and partially on prplhz asking who mkfuba was (not a scummy contradiction, NOT fine)
I know that it's shitty to be gone, throw out someone new, vote them, try to switch votes, blah blah. But mementoss is the most scummy person to me. I'd rather vote someone scummy than sheep, although prplhz isn't a pure sheep, he doesn't look great and I was really worried about something Zephirdd mentioned, that mini where he got pinned on D1, claimed cop, and then just sat back all game.
Still...mementoss scummier.
##Unvote
##Vote: Mementoss
Hapa, you had previous concerns over mementoss. They seem to still be around. How do you feel about his reactions to my TOO obvious post and mkfuba's weird post?
marv and palmar, you guys both found me SCUMMY based on that TOO obvious post. How do you feel about mementoss's reaction? Was he just calmer about it, or does it actually feel like he responded in an entirely different way than a town mindset player would?
Other folks. Has mementoss done a thing you're happy with? Contributed something you're happy with?
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On September 19 2012 23:48 Palmar wrote:
What about marv austinmcc? Why do you not want to lynch him?
I think this is the best thing you've written on marvOn September 19 2012 18:13 Palmar wrote:
This is important: When I joined the game marv had made exactly one post worth reading. It was a long-winded post but it had very little substance to it, at least for someone I would consider a good player. He basically rehashed the reasons why a case against hapahauli was bad (duh) and then proceeded to vote for a lurker.
The point is marv was really, really not doing jack shit in the game until I actually came in and called him out on it. He seems to have really changed things up. He even changed his entire attitude to be more badass. If you don't believe me, read his filter before, and after this post:
It's absolutely true. But this isn't lynchable for me. The shitty reasoning there is "I can't very well get on someone's case for not being active D1 until they were called out, at least not this game." The better reasoning is that I don't see that as a scum-only action from marv. Whether he's town or scum, he should be putting in some effort, making some good posts. Yes, it may be beneficial to lurk as scum, more so than lurking as town, but it's not more beneficial to get active after being called out as scum than it is as town? Both factions would prefer to be active, visible, making quality posts. So the response is something I read as possible from either faction.
You really dislike how marv liked Hiro's point about you entering the thread with 3 fresh scumreads. I actually was right with marv, really found Hiro's point interesting at first. See my mementoss post, there's a spoiler with my thought process there. I disagree now that your entrance was scummy, but I had the same initial thought as Hiro, and so it was good to see someone else sharing that. Regardless of my feelings on your alignment, I found that post interesting, so I don't find it scummy that marv did as well.
Aside from discussin your reasoning, things that are specific to what marv has posted:On September 18 2012 22:19 marvellosity wrote:Shame goodkarma is replacing out. His first post was scummy as hell. Not the general wishywashyness/not voting, but the fact that he was willing to talk about policy/trolling. I'm going to be keeping a close eye on his replacement. Look at this: Show nested quote +On September 18 2012 07:17 goodkarma wrote:
However, that prplhlz's play doesn't generate any meaningful discussion is a valid point. This is definitely scummy behavior.
On Policy Discussion:
As for how the game's started out: now for the last few games I've played in they start with trolling, which turns into hasty accusations, which then eventually turns into an actual game of scumhunting... We've already gone this direction again... I don't understand why policy has been so rarely brought up at the start of games (at least the games that I've played), as it is far more productive than trolling.
I'd like to briefly discuss policy here:
If for whatever reason we can't find someone who we feel has a decent chance of flipping scum, I propose we lynch a lurker. Tbh, I don't believe we will have this problem. But we should have some kind of contingency plan to fall back on if discussion, for whatever reason, takes us nowhere. The thread has already generated a scumread for GK, but for some reason he's derailing into policy discussion. Look at what he says - policy discussion is far more productive than the direction this game has gone. But look at how this game has gone. This might be the most productive Day 1 I've ever seen. Why is he complaining about it?
I agreed with this. For that exact reason. BH had just posted his prplhz case. GK responded to BH about the prplhz case, bringing up BH's claimed dislike of meta. Things were just about to take off. GK's comments about policy discussion felt odd at that point, like we had just had the jumping off post of the thread for activity (BH's case led into responses, those responses led into more posts - me trying to explain myself, hapa and mementoss sniping at eachother, etc.). GK wants to talk about policy in order to be more productive, when the thread is about to see the height of producivity for our D1. So I liked marv's thoughts there.
Those would be my reasons specific to you and marv. I'm not finding him scummy this game atm. Apart from your comment on his change in activity, I'm not in agreement with some of the things you find scummy about him. I don't LIKE that he didn't continue mulling over hiropro's comment, I don't LIKE that he kept bringing up your entrance as scummy, but oh well.
Anything else is ... minor ticky-tacky stuff. If I'm pretty inactive D1, marv likes to hop on my case. I haven't played with him in a game where he was scum when it's happened, so it's not a town-tell or anything, and it happened a little later than he got accusatory in bureaucracy and can't believe it's not themed, but still not scummy.
But the biggest reason is the simplest. I think mementoss is scum. I think mementoss has had scummy reactions. I want to lynch mementoss. marv is not mementoss. So why would I lynch marv?
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On September 20 2012 00:36 marvellosity wrote:austin: Show nested quote +On September 20 2012 00:02 austinmcc wrote:On September 18 2012 07:01 Mementoss wrote:On September 18 2012 06:55 austinmcc wrote:On September 18 2012 06:50 Hapahauli wrote:
If mafia would like to keep hypothetical townie-marv alive to the endgame because of my "policy lynch," then awesome! Mission accomplished! Though in all seriousness, I've read through quite a few of his recent games. He never lives as town past N3 (barring Mad Men Mafia where he was a replacement) in his recent games. If he's alive a long time, there's a very high chance (IMO basically guaranteed chance) of him flipping red.
<3 everyone at all, but you need to look further. He's generally not being killed off for supersexy scumhunting, but because he comes off as very townie and is generating a lot of discussion/activity from others. His early reads, although I haven't read recent games, are not generally a big threat to mafia.
On September 18 2012 06:50 Blazinghand wrote:
Hey pudding-munchers stop arguing about that and read my case I don't know how anyone can munch on pudding. I DO kind of like that observation. It feels almost TOO obvious but...man it's kind of damning. TOO obvious, as in more obvious than Mattchew in LVII? http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=361826¤tpage=14#261Nothing, can be TOO obvious. Thats like saying you don't think someone is scum, because there TOO scummy. Stop waffling, either you think its scummy or you think its not. Don't say things like "kind of like" and "TOO obvious but damning", your all over the place bro. Look at all the reactions to this post I made. Palmar thinks I'm scum just from the too obvious comment. Marv found it scummy. Hapa found it scummy. I think another one or two people did as well. But Mementoss's reaction to my comment felt different. I don't read much into this. It's the kinda post I can see being made as either alignment. Show nested quote +On September 20 2012 00:02 austinmcc wrote:He mentions me later, after Bluelightz questions him a little: On September 18 2012 23:14 Mementoss wrote:On September 18 2012 22:57 Bluelightz wrote:On September 18 2012 22:40 Mementoss wrote:
@Bluelightz case
I understand you just went through all my filter, and basically resaid the things I posted. I don't see how it makes me scum, and adding SCUM! at the end doesn't make it make me scummy lol. In the future when making a case, you should outline how the quotes make the person scum and not re-iterate what the post says.
Can't say much more now since I'm at work. Why do you have to point fingers on everyone and your now pushing Hapa but voting prplhz? If you want to know my best scum read, check who I'm voting, that will be it. I'm not pushing Hapa, I'm asking him to explain his reasoning more. Don't purposely misinterpret me, don't you see how far that got Zephridd with his case on Hapa? I'm allowed to pressure other players while voting another player. There is more than 1 scum in this game ya know. I would say the only other person I remotely pressured so far would be austinmcc's scummy indecisiveness. I guess...I didn't feel pressured by his post. He doesn't call me scum. He doesn't call my scummy. He doesn't REALLY say anything about me above. This isn't a super-strong point, as indecisiveness usually ~ scumminess, but my problem with his initial reaction was that it wasn't strong, didn't call me out, didn't end in a vote, nothing. So I find his characterization of that post as being the only pressure he's put on a person other than prplhz this game to be off. It's not outright, flashing lights, scummy. But when it's a response to pressure and you're sort of...almost misrepresenting an earlier post, misrepresenting your play, it comes off scummy. It comes off like you don't have a good handle on the actions you've taken and are slightly scrambling to explain yourself to pressure. The thing is, I think you're actually misrepresenting Mementoss somewhat here. He said "the only other person I remotely pressured" - the way this is phrased clearly indicates to me that he wasn't calling it significant pressure. "I remotely pressured" - as in, I kinda pressured a bit. But you're saying that he's misrepresenting it as proper pressure, when I don't think that's actually the case.
Some of the other parts of your case are stronger, though. The bits with the questioning on me/fuba without coming to an explanation. I think you also have a valid point that he voted prplhz early, but never updated his read on him despite all prplhz's other posting. Why has it taken you so long to come into the thread and contribute something, austin?
Any answer I give could come from any alignment. It's part laziness, part busyness (although I've had time where I could have gotten active), part...nothing catching my eye? It tends to take something to get me rolling.
Afaik, I'm not the most active D1 poster. Can't believe mini I got active about talis, spouted nonsense, but didn't do much else. Bureaucracy mini I was inactive until sandroba claimed messenger. LVII I was inactive until BM started questioning me, and until I latched onto Z-BosoN.
While I had a stretch with NO activity here, which is abnormal, and contributed less than usual, I'm not generally the largest contributor on D1.
I agree that mementoss's post could have come from either alignment. It's one reason I didn't jump on it when it was made, it didn't trigger the same reaction. It took seeing OTHER responses, and noticing how different they were, before mementoss's reaction looked worse.
I...hmmm, I agree with you about my representation of his "remotely pressured" comment. There's something that just doesn't feel right to me there though, and it's that uneasiness that leaked into how I represented his comment. It never felt like pressure. Heck, you and hapa called me scum and voted me I think but it didn't feel like pressure, because it was still so early and I no longer freak out if I get called scum. It just doesn't feel like he's actually put pressure on anyone all game, and instead of responding to Bluelightz with "I haven't put pressure on anyone" he gives the response that he did.
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On September 20 2012 00:38 Blazinghand wrote:
Cause he doesn't care about the game. Tbh I was hoping he'd be mod killed so we wouldn't have to deal with him.
So cruel. But so true for most of my D1 performance.
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On September 20 2012 01:20 Mementoss wrote:While I got your attention, why don't you answer this... How do you go from voting Prplhz, to saying I would like BL to be lynched to making a case on me within an hour. Show nested quote +On September 19 2012 22:41 austinmcc wrote:
I have been absent. I am getting this vote into thread because the deadline is coming. I like it better than the other options that MIGHT be legitimate at this point, which seem to be ... just marv?
##Vote: prplhz
I think I'd much rather lynch bluelightz, unless there's been any action on that front, but I don't believe that's going to happen. Its not just that you'd rather lynch bluelightz youd MUCH rather. Yet you don't even explain why you think he's scummy or attempt to convince anyone he is scum. Then you spend time making a case on me. What happened to BL, if you'd much rather lynch him why was there no case on him? This time-line makes no sense to me, it makes it seem like your just making up targets as you go, and you don't really care who gets lynched. On that note, where the fuck is bluelightz anyways, or perfection, or HiroPro. Also, why do people keep saying they think prphlz is town without explaining it? All they say is, look big post, big post = cares, cares=town. It makes no sense. And the fact that several people have been doing it, is very strange. The way this prphlz lynch has been going down all day, makes me think he is scum for sure.
As to prplhz. He hasn't been particularly townie. A lot of my vote stems from...maybe bad reasoning, that Zephirdd brought up as well, concerning this game. prplhz gets called out D1, on not the exact same stuff but some similar activity concerns iirc, doesn't get lynched in part due to a cop claim, survives til endgame. I remembered that exact scenario, and it caused my to be ... a little jumpy in voting him? I'd prefer if that scenario doesn't play out again.
I wanted to lynch bluelightz at that point because (1) bluelightz had done very little that I remembered, (2) what bluelightz had done, as far as I could recall, was talk briefly about 2 or so people that I wasn't concerned with, then dip out. The case on bluelightz is "WHERE IS BLUELIGHTZ?" more so than "Here's bluelightz bein' scummy!"
But I did go look at bluelightz after making my stupid vote. I wanted to see if he'd done anything further. Nope. However, it got me looking at you, among other people. I'd still prefer a more active bluelightz. I'd still prefer to hear from him concerning people other than the few he's mentioned. But his inactivity gets trumped by your scumminess.
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On September 20 2012 03:22 HiroPro wrote:
For the other lynches that I see, I'd be in favor of austin. A little bit because of what marv has said (the actual explanations for his obvious comment only coming when under significant pressure.
But it's mostly because of the way in which he's treated the case on Mementoss that he's brought up (not what he's said, which is mostly stuff that could be scummy, but is really mostly just a weak tell, but the way in which he's said it.). I've seen austin come back from generally not doing much and then proceeding to post a case on a fairly new target (he did it in Bureaucracy to Sandroba and then gave a read on GGQ when I asked him).
In that game he was very bold with the way he pushed his case. His thing was completely off but he treated it like a guaranteed case, called out sandroba when no one else was, and just gave off this confident and aggressive attitude. I had found him scummy before that but the way in which he was so bold despite lurking before really struck me as townie.
Look at the way that he's come back from an absence in this game though. He's apologetic about being gone, he's apologetic about offering a new candidate when there are already other options on the table. He at first throws out two names which look fairly easy and then only later once people pressure him for it, does he decide to read through and go somewhere else. This is scummy.
I can see where you're getting this, but you should take another look at Bureaucracy. I called out Sandroba because I thought he was actually scum, yes. But I explained that one reason I was pushing it so hard is that I wanted to survive for a while and had seen that newish guy + paranoid case = survive. As long as you don't come off scummy and you generally tank your cred, scum has no reason to kill you and you live for a bit (See: my experience in LV and my explanation for my Bureaucracy conduct). I wanted more days to check more messages that game with my role, so it made sense to play that way. After that, I'm pretty sure I slipped back again and didn't do too much.
I DO think my conduct this game looks scummier than that play. I don't have a townie reason for it. But look at the timing on my return post and the mementoss post. I'm not only looking up mementoss because I'm getting crap for being away. I was actually off looking at things right after returning, and that was already in the works. Reading through some filters wasn't a response to pressure there. It's a way of trying to contribute beyond just saying "Here's some stuff I think about what's already happened that others have probably said."
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marv, you've been asking everyone else and been thinking. Is mementoss a lynch candidate for you, regardless of whether you find me scummy?
On September 20 2012 01:08 marvellosity wrote:
Hapa, could you give me your current read on austin, please?
On September 20 2012 01:09 marvellosity wrote:
also while I'm at it, Palmar, what do you make of Mementoss?
On September 20 2012 02:58 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2012 02:56 mkfuba07 wrote:
EBWOP: "He mentions them elsewhere, but doesn't explain them until after he's posted the list." I feel like at that point it's not even a summary, it's just a list of people who don't have to worry about being pressured by prplhz.
Sorry for posting so much right now. I believe I have class during the deadline, and while I will have access to a computer for the later half of it, I can't guarantee that I'll have time to keep posting then. As your vote is currently on austinmcc, care to comment on his case and what you make of his recent activity?
On September 20 2012 03:12 marvellosity wrote:
Blazing, could you throw me a read on austin + mementoss?
I know you're missing responses to a lot of your questions, but you noted that some of mementoss's filter looked scummy and that some of my points were decent.
On September 20 2012 03:32 Blazinghand wrote:Here are the reasons Mementoss is scummy:1) unwilling to take risks, instead asks questions in this post. 2) responds to Hapa in a kind shitty way (link) but hapa's initial questioning is basically a huge over-reach in terms of interpretations of Mementoss' reasonings.
On September 20 2012 03:38 Blazinghand wrote:
Those of you who think you're on real wagons (the ones on austinmcc, marvellosity, and mementoss) you gotta realize nobody's joining you. You should all combine into one super-wagon and pick up the stragglers to avoid a no-lynch, preferrably on marvellosity. Ideally though guys like HiroPro and iamperfection will pull their heads out of their asses and stop wasting their votes even harder than the dudes on the 2-vote wagons.
I'll take a look at autinmcc now.
If you find mementoss scummy, and prplhz isn't happening, are you switching? He may only have 2 votes to prpl's 5, but a swap from you, who says he's scummy, makes it 3-4. Ange says she's rereading, bluelightz...had mementoss scummy then switches because of an answer he gave to a follow-up question?
BLUELIGHTZ, WHATCHOO FEEL ABOUT MEMENTOSS?
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On September 20 2012 03:47 HiroPro wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2012 03:30 austinmcc wrote:On September 20 2012 03:22 HiroPro wrote:
For the other lynches that I see, I'd be in favor of austin. A little bit because of what marv has said (the actual explanations for his obvious comment only coming when under significant pressure.
But it's mostly because of the way in which he's treated the case on Mementoss that he's brought up (not what he's said, which is mostly stuff that could be scummy, but is really mostly just a weak tell, but the way in which he's said it.). I've seen austin come back from generally not doing much and then proceeding to post a case on a fairly new target (he did it in Bureaucracy to Sandroba and then gave a read on GGQ when I asked him).
In that game he was very bold with the way he pushed his case. His thing was completely off but he treated it like a guaranteed case, called out sandroba when no one else was, and just gave off this confident and aggressive attitude. I had found him scummy before that but the way in which he was so bold despite lurking before really struck me as townie.
Look at the way that he's come back from an absence in this game though. He's apologetic about being gone, he's apologetic about offering a new candidate when there are already other options on the table. He at first throws out two names which look fairly easy and then only later once people pressure him for it, does he decide to read through and go somewhere else. This is scummy. I can see where you're getting this, but you should take another look at Bureaucracy. I called out Sandroba because I thought he was actually scum, yes. But I explained that one reason I was pushing it so hard is that I wanted to survive for a while and had seen that newish guy + paranoid case = survive. As long as you don't come off scummy and you generally tank your cred, scum has no reason to kill you and you live for a bit (See: my experience in LV and my explanation for my Bureaucracy conduct). I wanted more days to check more messages that game with my role, so it made sense to play that way. After that, I'm pretty sure I slipped back again and didn't do too much. I DO think my conduct this game looks scummier than that play. I don't have a townie reason for it. But look at the timing on my return post and the mementoss post. I'm not only looking up mementoss because I'm getting crap for being away. I was actually off looking at things right after returning, and that was already in the works. Reading through some filters wasn't a response to pressure there. It's a way of trying to contribute beyond just saying "Here's some stuff I think about what's already happened that others have probably said." I don't see anywhere in Bureaucracy where you explained that you were purposely trying to come off as paranoid. Show nested quote +On September 19 2012 22:41 austinmcc wrote:
I have been absent. I am getting this vote into thread because the deadline is coming. I like it better than the other options that MIGHT be legitimate at this point, which seem to be ... just marv?
##Vote: prplhz
I think I'd much rather lynch bluelightz, unless there's been any action on that front, but I don't believe that's going to happen. Why would you make a post like this without fully reading the thread? It's not like anyone had just asked you for your opinion on those two. I don't buy the deadline explanation you gave - there was plenty of time still left in the day.
Bureaucracy post is the first point in the spoiler here - On July 28 2012 04:52 austinmcc wrote:Hey guys, I'll knock it off with the poor play and the games. I too, am a nosy employee. Rastaban explains the role the way mine is, I can choose one person every full cycle to snoop, and I see PMs that they sent/received. I chose different targets than Rastaban did, and have been lightly poking Rastaban and Gonzaw to make sure that I had things nailed down, because, if not, I knew the identity of the president of marketing and could just snoop him tomorrow to get more messages. In the interest of keeping things simple and on the slim chance I could get killed tonight, I will reveal everything, and I can sort of explain everything, including the two chezinu messages, in a way that makes some sense. Gonzaw, risk.nuke, and most likely, Q-bert-Z are the remaining scumteam. (1) austinmcc, did you breadcrumb? can you prove it? blah blah? + Show Spoiler +I did not crumb, because I'm dumb. But my play should back up my claim. - In LV, I went conspiracy theorist and I was noob town, and survived until endgame. When I saw I had a power role, I decided I wanted to set myself up to live until endgame, because that meant more chances to get messages and hold onto them, feeling out the scum team. Marv especially can back this up, he left me alive in LV because I was not clearly scummy, but nobody cared what I had to say given the conspiracy theories. He knows I'm not an idiot though, so hopefully this makes sense - I posted conspiracy theory stuff early hoping for the same effect, to get ignored and survive til endgame. For that I'm sorry, because that decision kind of hurts town and it puts me in a mindset where I'm playing to survive and not win. I didn't contribute nearly as much as I should have, sorry guys.
- I haven't been scumhunting as much as normal, because I got complacent with my role. My role scumhunts for me, so I just wasn't as engaged this game as I have been when I was vanilla.
- My suspicions of Chezinu, the thing I couldn't explain earlier, should become apparent when I explain my checks.
- My minor defense of Foolishness, which Marv and VE mentioned, can be explained by my checks
- The message I snooped actually explain the game
The rest of that post I cut, but it was only specific to Bureaucracy.
The reasons behind that post are AWFUL. Ghost had just posted about giving a votecount. Caller's game just ended a day at an odd deadline, so I saw the vote count, had just sat down to look at what had happened overnight (overnight EST) and flipped out and wanted to get a vote in. I can't back that post up with any reasonable explanation.
I can give you the dumb "well why would I do that as scum?" response as well, because it's an idiotic post from either end, but that response isn't helpful.
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On September 20 2012 03:47 Blazinghand wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2012 03:43 austinmcc wrote:
On September 20 2012 03:32 Blazinghand wrote:Here are the reasons Mementoss is scummy:1) unwilling to take risks, instead asks questions in this post. 2) responds to Hapa in a kind shitty way (link) but hapa's initial questioning is basically a huge over-reach in terms of interpretations of Mementoss' reasonings. On September 20 2012 03:38 Blazinghand wrote:
Those of you who think you're on real wagons (the ones on austinmcc, marvellosity, and mementoss) you gotta realize nobody's joining you. You should all combine into one super-wagon and pick up the stragglers to avoid a no-lynch, preferrably on marvellosity. Ideally though guys like HiroPro and iamperfection will pull their heads out of their asses and stop wasting their votes even harder than the dudes on the 2-vote wagons.
I'll take a look at autinmcc now. If you find mementoss scummy, and prplhz isn't happening, are you switching? He may only have 2 votes to prpl's 5, but a swap from you, who says he's scummy, makes it 3-4. Ange says she's rereading, bluelightz...had mementoss scummy then switches because of an answer he gave to a follow-up question? Are you fucking serious? Am I switching from a highly scummy player who's close to getting lynched to a slightly scummy player who has very few votes? I don't know what you're smoking but it sounds like it makes for a pretty good party.
Yes. I'm entirely serious.
I didn't ask, HEY BH U WAN SWITCH?! I asked whether, if prplhz wasn't happening, you would switch. I don't exactly find it ridiculous to see whether you'd switch from someone you find scummy to someone you also find scummy.
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On September 20 2012 03:56 marvellosity wrote:
austin:
My reads have fluctuated somewhat from earlier today. I agree with Hiro on the tone of your posts; I had found something off about your demeanour (I had thought it was that you were trying too hard to create yourself a story) and what he says rings true.
My opinion on fuba has edged more towards scum. I find it bizarre that he's willing to vote you, but then pursues posts and content regarding prplhz, while completely disregarding any of the posts that you have made in the interim. If you were his main scumread (especially as most of his case seemed to be your inactivtiy) I would think that he should be interacting with your contributions since. I'd like others' opinion on this.
To BlazingHand: the reason it was a pile of shit is that far more people have expressed the opinion that I'm town or a bad lynch than they have with austin. Corralling people into voting on specific candidates like that is bad play.
To HiroPro: austinmcc did say that in Bureaucracy to be fair to him, or at the very least he said it to me with regards to his play in Bureaucracy. He's not lying about that. You're not going to get a lynch through on Hapahauli at this stage I think, so vote austin with me.
Palmar's absence is fucking pathetic.
prplhz has annoyingly come in to defend himself and then provided nothing else. I'm finding that pretty scummy because it hasn't moved conversation forward. On the flip side, I found Hiro's arguments about how prplhz behaves as town (sheeping strong players) as quite convincing; further I think prplhz's frustration is genuine; I also see (ironically) prplhz's failure to understand that listing townreads with explanation is bad as somewhat townie.
I don't really wanna lynch Mementoss right now. You had some good points but I think his defence is genuine; in addition to this I feel that he's been playing a little lazily, which I can empathise with. In both PTP and LVII too he seemed quite scummy because of a lack of effort at points.
I have too much fun with setup speculation, paranoia, and odd plans to just afk as scum. If I ever actually roll scum, I'll end up getting caught doing something, rather than being absent and having 2 retarded posts.
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On September 20 2012 04:02 Blazinghand wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2012 03:56 austinmcc wrote:On September 20 2012 03:47 Blazinghand wrote:On September 20 2012 03:43 austinmcc wrote:
On September 20 2012 03:32 Blazinghand wrote:Here are the reasons Mementoss is scummy:1) unwilling to take risks, instead asks questions in this post. 2) responds to Hapa in a kind shitty way (link) but hapa's initial questioning is basically a huge over-reach in terms of interpretations of Mementoss' reasonings. On September 20 2012 03:38 Blazinghand wrote:
Those of you who think you're on real wagons (the ones on austinmcc, marvellosity, and mementoss) you gotta realize nobody's joining you. You should all combine into one super-wagon and pick up the stragglers to avoid a no-lynch, preferrably on marvellosity. Ideally though guys like HiroPro and iamperfection will pull their heads out of their asses and stop wasting their votes even harder than the dudes on the 2-vote wagons.
I'll take a look at autinmcc now. If you find mementoss scummy, and prplhz isn't happening, are you switching? He may only have 2 votes to prpl's 5, but a swap from you, who says he's scummy, makes it 3-4. Ange says she's rereading, bluelightz...had mementoss scummy then switches because of an answer he gave to a follow-up question? Are you fucking serious? Am I switching from a highly scummy player who's close to getting lynched to a slightly scummy player who has very few votes? I don't know what you're smoking but it sounds like it makes for a pretty good party. Yes. I'm entirely serious. I didn't ask, HEY BH U WAN SWITCH?! I asked whether, if prplhz wasn't happening, you would switch. I don't exactly find it ridiculous to see whether you'd switch from someone you find scummy to someone you also find scummy. But then you bring up the 2 votes vs 5 situation, which is why I think you may or may not be shitting me. If prplhz isn't happening and there's only 2 votes on mementoss, why the hell would I ever switch to him? He's not even my second-highest scumread and like nobody thinks he's scum.
His two voters think he's scum.
You called him "scummy." Marv noted some good points in a case on him. Ange was rereading and is currently at: Iagree with austinmcc's case that Mementoss does not follow up his questions. I have to read through his filter once more though to give a final stance on him. . Palmar is unknown. Bluelightz previously voted him and then unvoted for a reason that looks ridiculous.
Moreover, I don't actually see anyone saying "MEMENTOSS IS TOWN." People are actively saying they have townreads on prplhz. NOBODY seems to be doing that with mementoss, correct me if I'm wrong here. If you don't want to mislynch so bad, if that's the worst option, then why is voting for the candidate that everyone finds scummy and nobody is REALLY stepping up to defend (and that you admit has some scummy points, in the only spot you recently discuss him) such a bad course of action in your mind?
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On September 20 2012 04:06 HiroPro wrote:
k, I'm switching to austin. His responses to me are trash.
##Unvote
##Vote austinmcc
Gave you some differences between bureaucracy and here. Gave you the reason that I played like I did in bureaucracy.
As to your questions about the prplhz/bluelightz question, is there ANY actual good explanation? I don't think there is. You can vote me because of that post, but you shouldn't be voting me based on my responses. That post sucked ass. It's not the sort of thing you can shine up and make pretty with an explanation. It's nitpicky, but ... there's seriously no good explanation there, so there's no non-trashy response.
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EBWOP: prplhz/bluelightz POST*.
Seriously though, take a step back. There's no good answer to your question there, no good reasoning that COULD be put behind that post. It's a stupid post, maybe you can vote me off of it. But my response being bad is not a good reason to vote me when there's no good response.
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On September 20 2012 04:22 HiroPro wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2012 04:09 austinmcc wrote:On September 20 2012 04:06 HiroPro wrote:
k, I'm switching to austin. His responses to me are trash.
##Unvote
##Vote austinmcc Gave you some differences between bureaucracy and here. Gave you the reason that I played like I did in bureaucracy. As to your questions about the prplhz/bluelightz question, is there ANY actual good explanation? I don't think there is. You can vote me because of that post, but you shouldn't be voting me based on my responses. That post sucked ass. It's not the sort of thing you can shine up and make pretty with an explanation. It's nitpicky, but ... there's seriously no good explanation there, so there's no non-trashy response. Your responses aren't scummy by themselves, but they do nothing to actually convince me that you're town. Even if I completely disregard the meta from bureaucracy, the way that you came back is still scummy. Your responses have just been the final part in that you say stuff like "I DO think my conduct this game looks scummier than that play.", which is completely useless. I don't know what a townie response to my point about prp/bz would be because it's incredibly hard for me to believe that a townie would lightly pick two candidates like that when they were actually building a case on someone else.
This is what I'm getting at. I don't know what a townie response would be either. So don't vote me BECAUSE of the response if no townie response exists.
That's it. Just didn't like the reasoning you gave in that vote post, because there's no option for a non-trash response.
The case on mementoss was built after that post though. The vote prplhz post was the first thing I wrote after sitting down, then went to go look back through some things. Mementoss case sprung out of rereading bluelightz, who had focused on mementoss for a bit but then switched away. Realized while rereading bluelightz that I didn't remember much of what mementoss had done. Read him, found that TOO obvious response scummy, then started case.
If I DO get lynched today, I'll note that bluelightz mementoss suspicions into unvote mementoss because of his response to an issue entirely unrelated to bluelightz case looks pretty wonky and gives me a bad vibe from bluelightz.
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On September 20 2012 04:26 iamperfection wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2012 04:23 Ange777 wrote:@Iamperfection: Are you just completely in sheeping mode now?? On September 20 2012 03:45 iamperfection wrote:
I will follow the two guys I think are town.
## unvote
## vote austinmcc Bear in mind you yourself said the following: On September 19 2012 11:44 iamperfection wrote:
So my current view is your scum and that mkfuba is terrible town. So you'd rather sheep two players where you believe one of them to be a terrible player than vote on your own? And no, I'd rather lynch prplhz who still is my top scum read than Mementoss. Yes, he makes himself scummy but I am far more convinced by prplhz' being scum than Mementoss. It seems pretty reasonable to me I'm usable not unrobe when I think someone is town. So why wouldnt I.
What does this mean?
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Just for later reference, the Bluelightz stuff:
+ Show Spoiler +(1) Bluelightz case on mementoss: + Show Spoiler +On September 18 2012 20:55 Bluelightz wrote:First, I think I should outline my main scum suspicions for now: Mementoss
So, basically, I don't think he's contributing. Show nested quote +On September 18 2012 06:21 Mementoss wrote:On September 18 2012 06:07 prplhz wrote:
hey guys
please no unnecessary bullshit it's perfectly possible to play the game without that and it only serves to make the game harder to read
there are a couple of people around i have no idea who is, can anybody explain to me who mkfuba07 is? well this is a lie already, what is it with people lieing on there first post? http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=355874You hosted a game he was in. More MKFUBA games if you want + Show Spoiler + Hey, here's some games on X, cheers! I think you obviously couldn't search em up yourself! (Scummy because he's just pointing out the obvious things: Filters of past games). Show nested quote +On September 18 2012 06:07 Mementoss wrote:
I think day one should be discussing what da bands name is gunna be Clearly trolling is a fine way to start the game! (Read: Nope, it's bad because it's not helping to find scum and win) Show nested quote +On September 18 2012 06:34 Mementoss wrote:On September 18 2012 06:28 prplhz wrote:
their*
So I am lying or what? I mean, I am not lying unless you think I am perfectly aware who mkfuba07 is yet claims not to be, is that the case?
Maybe you can actually explain to me who he is instead of coming up with a silly list that's readily available to me as well if I just go into his profile. I can do that on my own thank you very much. Thanks for the grammar lesson. Yes, I think if you hosted a game with the player was in it you would have an idea who he was. You asked about him clearly stating `there are a couple of people around i have no idea who is` in reference to MKfuba. Well, you sure made it seem like you were too lazy to find anything about him since you asked the thread about him. The only game I played with him was deathnote, he was active enough, but just seemed to sheep and not lead his own cases. Mostly a commentator. Comments on meta of people are clearly helping us to win the game by killing scum! (Nope.) Show nested quote +On September 18 2012 06:36 Mementoss wrote:On September 18 2012 06:32 iamperfection wrote:
I randomly suggest a lynch of Marvelosity.
Your guys thoughts? Well you have no basis right now to think he``s scum, so how does this idea make any sense. Town wins by killing all the scum. Well, this post is somewhat helping, by pressurign iamP for post's, but the other half is what? pointing out the wincons, cheers guys! I totally didn't know that. (Haha, no.) Show nested quote +On September 18 2012 06:43 Mementoss wrote:On September 18 2012 06:40 Hapahauli wrote:On September 18 2012 06:32 iamperfection wrote:
I randomly suggest a lynch of Marvelosity.
Your guys thoughts? Policy lynching one of the best town players day 1 =/= good idea. Like I'm all for policy lynching marv if he's alive past Night 3 (he's basically an auto N1/N2 NK for mafia if he's town), but that's about it. I propose a less-randomly decided lynch against iamperfection. Thoughts? These are the kinda thoughts you keep in your head. Mafia purposely keeps marv alive, for a totally WIFOM, end game cause of what you said. Explain why you think iamperfection is mafia because of that post. No random lynches. -First line: What the hell? -Second Line: Somewhat helpful by pointing out what mafia does with the WIFOM around marv, doesn't help much in finding scum though till late in the game. -Last line: This line is fine, pressures Hapa to post, the other statement is clear enough as well. Show nested quote +On September 18 2012 06:56 Mementoss wrote:On September 18 2012 06:50 Blazinghand wrote:
Hey pudding-munchers stop arguing about that and read my case I read it. It seems like you played with him alot and can really differentiate between his scum and town. It's not the most for sure case of all time, but the post felt scummy to me as soon as I read it and even moreso when I realized he hosted a game with MKfuba in it. He's the scummiest player so far. Iamperfection seems like noobie, why would mafia out themselves like that, also I think he is bitter because of his history with marv. ##vote: prplhzBlazinghand what do you think of hapa immediately coming to prplhz defence? + Show Spoiler +On September 18 2012 06:35 Hapahauli wrote:Hai gais! Good to be back in a mini so I can actually keep track of people more closely =) Show nested quote +On September 18 2012 06:21 Mementoss wrote:On September 18 2012 06:07 prplhz wrote:
hey guys
please no unnecessary bullshit it's perfectly possible to play the game without that and it only serves to make the game harder to read
there are a couple of people around i have no idea who is, can anybody explain to me who mkfuba07 is? well this is a lie already, what is it with people lieing on there first post? http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=355874You hosted a game he was in. More MKFUBA games if you want + Show Spoiler + Prplhz isn't exactly the most attentive host... I was in that game, and he basically forgot to make the last nightpost for a couple of hours. I wouldn't expect him to remember half the players in that game tbh =P Also what do you think of this clear contradiction from prplhz: + Show Spoiler +On September 18 2012 06:07 prplhz wrote:
hey guys
please no unnecessary bullshit it's perfectly possible to play the game without that and it only serves to make the game harder to read
there are a couple of people around i have no idea who is, can anybody explain to me who mkfuba07 is? On September 18 2012 06:08 prplhz wrote:Show nested quote +On September 18 2012 06:07 Mementoss wrote:
I think day one should be discussing what da bands name is gunna be name my band *Agrees with someone* *Tries to make connections with someone* *Points out contradiction which he doesn't explain though it is clear* Okay, this post mementoss is trying to find scum, but what is his objective by making a connection to Hapa?! (He's trying to possibly direct pressure off prplhz to Hapa, and confusing the lynch target for today) Show nested quote +On September 18 2012 07:01 Mementoss wrote:On September 18 2012 06:55 austinmcc wrote:On September 18 2012 06:50 Hapahauli wrote:
If mafia would like to keep hypothetical townie-marv alive to the endgame because of my "policy lynch," then awesome! Mission accomplished! Though in all seriousness, I've read through quite a few of his recent games. He never lives as town past N3 (barring Mad Men Mafia where he was a replacement) in his recent games. If he's alive a long time, there's a very high chance (IMO basically guaranteed chance) of him flipping red.
<3 everyone at all, but you need to look further. He's generally not being killed off for supersexy scumhunting, but because he comes off as very townie and is generating a lot of discussion/activity from others. His early reads, although I haven't read recent games, are not generally a big threat to mafia.
On September 18 2012 06:50 Blazinghand wrote:
Hey pudding-munchers stop arguing about that and read my case I don't know how anyone can munch on pudding. I DO kind of like that observation. It feels almost TOO obvious but...man it's kind of damning. TOO obvious, as in more obvious than Mattchew in LVII? http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=361826¤tpage=14#261Nothing, can be TOO obvious. Thats like saying you don't think someone is scum, because there TOO scummy. Stop waffling, either you think its scummy or you think its not. Don't say things like "kind of like" and "TOO obvious but damning", your all over the place bro. Denies the possibility of someone being town. Show nested quote +On September 18 2012 07:12 Mementoss wrote:On September 18 2012 07:07 Blazinghand wrote:On September 18 2012 07:04 Hapahauli wrote:
... or it's not obvious at all, and it's a typical bad D1 case making insane meta connections with barely any samplesize?
If you're pressuring him or whatever, cool, but the case is in no way "damning" or "TOO obvious." In fact, I'd expect scum to be the people most willing to be jumping on BH's case without so much as a thought. Namely austinmcc and mementoss I literally sampled every game he's played in the last 3 months. If you think he's so damn town either argue from this dataset, or increase it, or present another case. I do, however, agree with you that scum may try to bus him. Dudes jumping on his case without explanations as townies are A) letting scum do the same thing and skate by and B) setting themselves up for mislynches. If you have a reason to be for or against his lynch, STATE IT. As town you should have no reason to fear thinking openly and logically. Hapa is right (on this particular issue). I did explain it, I found his first post scummy and your case was just some icing on the scum. It's literally an hour in the game, there is no such thing as voting too early. If anything it's going to generate more discussion that can be looked into more later. But I agree on austinmcc being hard to tell what hes getting at as I pointed out, which seems scummy as he usually is very articulate in his posts and has a clear meaning for posting them. Talks about someone while inserting a subtle finger onto austinmcc (Hey I think X is scum, but why not lynch Y instead?) Show nested quote +On September 18 2012 08:02 Mementoss wrote:On September 18 2012 07:46 Hapahauli wrote:Alas! Austinmcc is at work so we won't be hearing from him for a while. One other post did catch my eye though: On September 18 2012 07:12 Mementoss wrote:On September 18 2012 07:07 Blazinghand wrote:On September 18 2012 07:04 Hapahauli wrote:
... or it's not obvious at all, and it's a typical bad D1 case making insane meta connections with barely any samplesize?
If you're pressuring him or whatever, cool, but the case is in no way "damning" or "TOO obvious." In fact, I'd expect scum to be the people most willing to be jumping on BH's case without so much as a thought. Namely austinmcc and mementoss I literally sampled every game he's played in the last 3 months. If you think he's so damn town either argue from this dataset, or increase it, or present another case. I do, however, agree with you that scum may try to bus him. Dudes jumping on his case without explanations as townies are A) letting scum do the same thing and skate by and B) setting themselves up for mislynches. If you have a reason to be for or against his lynch, STATE IT. As town you should have no reason to fear thinking openly and logically. Hapa is right (on this particular issue). I did explain it, I found his first post scummy and your case was just some icing on the scum. 1 It's literally an hour in the game, there is no such thing as voting too early. 2 If anything it's going to generate more discussion that can be looked into more later. 3 But I agree on austinmcc being hard to tell what hes getting at as I pointed out, which seems scummy as he usually is very articulate in his posts and has a clear meaning for posting them. 4 Holy wishy-washy post batman! Let's follow the logic: 1) First post is scummy and case makes prplhz scummier! 2) No such thing as voting too early! (errr... where did that come from? making excuses already?) 3) But eh... it will generate discussion and we'll look more into it later. (oh? thought prplhz was very scummy to you? awfully passive for such a strong read on him) 4) Holy freggin wishy-washy opinion on austinmcc. 1) Yeah first post was scummy and it fits the meta analysis aka best case atm. How is accusing people scummy? 2) I said no such thing as voting too early is because a lot of people think they have to wait till last minute to vote especially on day 1, and usually a bad consolidation happens. Voting earlier will just bring up more cases throughout the day. 3) Nothing to do with one another. 4) How is calling someone scummy wishy washy. I don't follow your logic. But I guess it's your thing to jump on me day 1s lol. Defend's himself, this is fine, as he is trying to prove he is town and indeed, not scum. Show nested quote +On September 18 2012 09:36 Mementoss wrote:On September 18 2012 09:30 iamperfection wrote:you case on prplhz is shit. a fucking meta case on 1 post come on. Although i dont think that was the point of your case i think the purpose was to drive discussion which it has done. Kudos to you. The purpose of my random lynch was an attempt to drive some discussion. I had already discussed with marv after my previous game in which palmar suggested a random lynch in order to drive discussion on day 1. Thats why i find it extremely wierd that marv didnt think it was random when i had already spoken with him that i would do it in my next game.On September 18 2012 06:46 marvellosity wrote:
P.S the whole point is that iamp's suggestion wasn't random, so we already have a liar. LAL? I say we respect his wishes. ## Vote Marvelosity Well, that means it isn't random because it was pre-meditated and thought out. Sooo, yeah. Point's out something on iamP's reason's on marv (subtlely defending him?) Show nested quote +On September 18 2012 09:39 Mementoss wrote:On September 18 2012 09:37 iamperfection wrote:On September 18 2012 09:36 Mementoss wrote:On September 18 2012 09:30 iamperfection wrote:you case on prplhz is shit. a fucking meta case on 1 post come on. Although i dont think that was the point of your case i think the purpose was to drive discussion which it has done. Kudos to you. The purpose of my random lynch was an attempt to drive some discussion. I had already discussed with marv after my previous game in which palmar suggested a random lynch in order to drive discussion on day 1. Thats why i find it extremely wierd that marv didnt think it was random when i had already spoken with him that i would do it in my next game.On September 18 2012 06:46 marvellosity wrote:
P.S the whole point is that iamp's suggestion wasn't random, so we already have a liar. LAL? I say we respect his wishes. ## Vote Marvelosity Well, that means it isn't random because it was pre-meditated and thought out. Sooo, yeah. Believe it or not it did randomly come out as marv. oh I thought your meant you told marv you would be voting for him specifically in the next game. acknowledges failure in understand iamP's reason's on marv, doesn't help find scum any how! Show nested quote +On September 18 2012 09:55 Mementoss wrote:On September 18 2012 09:54 Hapahauli wrote:
Well tbh, you could make that entire chart red - I lynched goodkarma in one game because I thought his play was "too clean" =P
But back to iamperfection, I'm definitely leaning scummy to him for now. I can't yet discount him just being plain pissed that you voted for him (a townie OMGUS type thing), but the sudden severity of it all is just really strange. Answer this, why would scum make their first post that? It obviously wouldn't do anything towards getting Marv lynched. It would only bring negative attention towards himself. Direct's more pressure on Hapa, So, now with this last quote I leave you with this question, Who is your main scum target memen? You voted prplhz, inserted subtle fingers on austinmcc, and is pressuring Hapa, who do you think is scum actually? Oh, and ##Vote: Mementoss (2) Ange asks why Bluelightz is voting Mementoss over prplhz: + Show Spoiler +On September 18 2012 22:36 Bluelightz wrote:Show nested quote +On September 18 2012 22:01 Ange777 wrote:@prplhz: On September 18 2012 20:33 prplhz wrote:
Disclaimer: I don't read any analysis that refer to the "Zephirdd Rule" also known as the "Kenpachi Rule Extended" because I think it's bullshit.
Anyway, HapaHauli is playing active and townie and I have no interest in lynching him today. Ange777 is looking terrible though.
@Ange777 Have you been scum at any point and can you direct me to one of those games?
List of people who suck: Bluelightz, marvellosity. What makes you think my play is terrible? And why does thinking the Kenpachi/Zephirdd Rule is bullshit entitle you to just ignore cases? Just because someone posts bullshit does not mean that it can't help you uncover scum. Again I don't see any kind of scum hunting from you. Scum? + Show Spoiler +In my first game ever I rolled scum: Newbie XII. @Bluelightz: What makes you think that Mementoss is more scummy than prplhz? Your biggest concern seems to be that he has many different scum reads but that does not mean that he is not contributing. In contrary it is better than prplhz's filter who has not backed up his suspicions with an explanation at all. Haven't read on him yet, and when I read the thread once I came back from school he didn't stick out, I'll get to reading him now and adjust my reads accordingly. (3) Bluelightz asks questions about what Mementoss is doing at that time in the thread, while saying he finds prplhz scummy but not giving more than general reasoning: + Show Spoiler +On September 18 2012 22:57 Bluelightz wrote:Show nested quote +On September 18 2012 22:40 Mementoss wrote:
@Bluelightz case
I understand you just went through all my filter, and basically resaid the things I posted. I don't see how it makes me scum, and adding SCUM! at the end doesn't make it make me scummy lol. In the future when making a case, you should outline how the quotes make the person scum and not re-iterate what the post says.
Can't say much more now since I'm at work. Why do you have to point fingers on everyone and your now pushing Hapa but voting prplhz? On September 18 2012 23:12 Bluelightz wrote:
Hmm, prplhz seems even more useless then mementoss, he has declared his stances on some people, and as you said, some unexplained reads. On September 19 2012 00:07 Bluelightz wrote:
Memen: Aren't you just deflecting pressure onto mkfuba? If you want to answer like that at least explain to me why it's the same, oh and answer my question. (4) Mementoss responds to Bluelightz case and question: + Show Spoiler +On September 18 2012 22:40 Mementoss wrote:
@Bluelightz case
I understand you just went through all my filter, and basically resaid the things I posted. I don't see how it makes me scum, and adding SCUM! at the end doesn't make it make me scummy lol. In the future when making a case, you should outline how the quotes make the person scum and not re-iterate what the post says.
Can't say much more now since I'm at work. On September 18 2012 23:14 Mementoss wrote:Show nested quote +On September 18 2012 22:57 Bluelightz wrote:On September 18 2012 22:40 Mementoss wrote:
@Bluelightz case
I understand you just went through all my filter, and basically resaid the things I posted. I don't see how it makes me scum, and adding SCUM! at the end doesn't make it make me scummy lol. In the future when making a case, you should outline how the quotes make the person scum and not re-iterate what the post says.
Can't say much more now since I'm at work. Why do you have to point fingers on everyone and your now pushing Hapa but voting prplhz? If you want to know my best scum read, check who I'm voting, that will be it. I'm not pushing Hapa, I'm asking him to explain his reasoning more. Don't purposely misinterpret me, don't you see how far that got Zephridd with his case on Hapa? I'm allowed to pressure other players while voting another player. There is more than 1 scum in this game ya know. I would say the only other person I remotely pressured so far would be austinmcc's scummy indecisiveness. On September 19 2012 00:26 Mementoss wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2012 00:07 Bluelightz wrote:
Memen: Aren't you just deflecting pressure onto mkfuba? If you want to answer like that at least explain to me why it's the same, oh and answer my question. Read the thread I answered your questions. And please take off scum shaded glasses everytime you talk to me, I'm not deflecting pressure onto mkfuba, I'm getting verification from Marv, why he is biased towards one lurker over the other. RESPONSE TO NON-BLUELIGHTZ STUFF SNIPPED (5) Bluelightz response: + Show Spoiler +On September 19 2012 00:55 Bluelightz wrote:
Ah, Memen, I see. Good explanation.
##Unvote: Mementoss
##Vote: prplhz
If he doesn't step up his contributions (so do I), I think I'll keep my vote on him. I'll go into more detail on this tomorrow as I have to sleep. mementoss never really addresses Bluelightz' case. Just dislikes it as a whole, doesn't find any of what Bluelightz found scummy to be scummy. mementoss answers a follow-up question that Bluelightz had. Bluelightz asked this question without responding to mementoss's wholesale dismissal of his case. Bluelightz accepts that answer, unvotes, votes prplhz without giving much/any reasoning until today (there's a small bit in his response to Ange but it's generalized comments and you don't see any bluelightz-specific thoughts) Bluelightz then says today, at the end of his prplhz post: Basically that's why and I'll be happy to answer any questions/ give opinions on anyone. Noticeably hasn't updated his read on mementoss. We're not even sure if bluelightz finds mementoss scummy anymore, as the unvote was NOT related to a refutation of the case, so bluelightz should still be standing by his case. He doesn't drop in to say anything about mementoss at all, despite his initial target picking up SOME steam (yes yes, I know he's not leading in votes or anything) I do not like this interaction at all.
Burying it in spoilers, don't want to push bluelightz today, but I really, really dislike that interaction. If I end up dying, someone please dig this up.
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On September 20 2012 04:47 iamperfection wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2012 04:38 marvellosity wrote:
sounds like some epic phone posting gone wrong You know me to well. I meant to say it is reasonable for me to follow my town reads because they are usually right
On September 19 2012 11:44 iamperfection wrote:
i only like to give town reads when i think it will prevent a mis lynch otherwise its pointless in my eyes.
On September 19 2012 11:44 iamperfection wrote:
So my current view is your [Zephirdd] scum and that mkfuba is terrible town.
On September 20 2012 04:47 iamperfection wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2012 04:38 marvellosity wrote:
sounds like some epic phone posting gone wrong You know me to well. I meant to say it is reasonable for me to follow my town reads because they are usually right
I don't like to give town reads.
I think x is a terrible townie.
It is reasonable for me to follow my town reads and sheep my vote.
DANGER! DANGER! DOES NOT COMPUTE. DOES NOT COMPUTE.
You're giving out townreads. You're sheeping someone that you have a town read on but think is "terrible." This seems like a remarkably bad vote.
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Marv, you liking the company you're keeping there?
You already mentioned mkfuba. You already got this response to your question: On September 20 2012 03:56 mkfuba07 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2012 02:58 marvellosity wrote:On September 20 2012 02:56 mkfuba07 wrote:
EBWOP: "He mentions them elsewhere, but doesn't explain them until after he's posted the list." I feel like at that point it's not even a summary, it's just a list of people who don't have to worry about being pressured by prplhz.
Sorry for posting so much right now. I believe I have class during the deadline, and while I will have access to a computer for the later half of it, I can't guarantee that I'll have time to keep posting then. As your vote is currently on austinmcc, care to comment on his case and what you make of his recent activity? Absolutely! I think the most convincing thing about it is the overall feeling that MMToss isn't really pressuring his scumreads. He hasn't said much about prplhz since the vote until his post about marv and I being suspicious together. I actually forgot that he even had his vote on him. Austinmcc didn't feel particularly pressured. And despite feeling like MMToss should be voting for me instead of prplhz based on his posting so far, I don't feel particularly pressured by him. He seems to be kind of passively throwing around suspicion, but keeping his vote firmly set on prplhz without any force behind it. I'm not sure if this is necessarily scummy (I know, wishy-washy), but I don't feel like it's consistent with MMToss's town play (the limited amount that I have experienced). Gotta switch classrooms... I'll take another look at austin's recent posts and comment when I'm settled in the other room. Sorry about that :< Regardless of your feelings on MY alignment, his vote is looking a little odd.
Then you've got:On September 20 2012 03:45 iamperfection wrote:
I will follow the two guys I think are town.
## unvote
## vote austinmcc
Which ange and I have already pointed out is not the strongest vote in the world. Let alone that one of the town reads he's sheeping is someone you seem to be struggling with.
Except for the bit on my response, I've got no problems with HiroPro's vote though.
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Sorry for spam, but that mkfuba post actually looks all sorts of off.
Care to comment on austinmcc's case and recent activity?
Absolutely! Here's my thoughts on mementoss. Gotta go, thoughts on austinmcc later
I know mementoss WAS the subject of the case, but that response looks really disjointed.
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On September 20 2012 05:14 iamperfection wrote:
Raise your hand if you are here
Explain your vote if you are here
On September 20 2012 04:51 Ange777 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2012 04:47 iamperfection wrote:On September 20 2012 04:38 marvellosity wrote:
sounds like some epic phone posting gone wrong You know me to well. I meant to say it is reasonable for me to follow my town reads because they are usually right So you are not voting austin because you think he is scummy but because you hope that your town reads found scum?
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On September 20 2012 05:16 prplhz wrote:
me neither but he's kind of the alternative
Awww, I wasn't going to swap back to you if it came down to it. Sniffle.
While you're here, could you give thoughts on mementoss? I know he's not as legitimate a non-you lynch as I am at this point, but I'm interested in your thoughts.
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On September 20 2012 05:31 marvellosity wrote:
Do you have nothing to say about my play since you committed to your vote on me, prplhz?
I read what you're reading, but his vote is still on me for the time being.
On September 20 2012 05:31 Zephirdd wrote:
iamperfection, prplhz Palmar.
jesus christ look at the people voting austin, and look at the people voting prplhz. You have HiroPro, mkfuba, Marvellosity and iamperfection on MMT, and blazinghand, ange777 and me on prplhz. Palmar is activelly pushing that prplhz and IMP are town and gives no coherent motive for that, and now decided a no-lynch is better than lynching prplhz?
Fuck no.
Austin, hapa, do town a favor. Do it just so a no-lynch won't happen.
I agree that there are some townie folks on the prplhz lynch. Not bluelightz, not mementoss, but the rest of you look town or better than enough others that you should be town.
I don't want to swap over.
At this point I'm happy with mementoss, why NOBODY SEEMS TO REALLY WANT TO CALL TOWN AND GIVE REASONING FOR. I believe Palmar has blanket said he's town, but nobody seems to actually want to come into the thread, call mementoss town, and throw down some reasoning for that read besides mementoss himself.
I'm happy with voting bluelightz if we have juice for that
Possibly happy with fuba, need to reread another time
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On September 20 2012 05:58 Blazinghand wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2012 05:58 Hapahauli wrote:
Just wait 2 minutes BH. Just wait. Nice try, but I'm not unvoting, and neither is anyone else unless they want to raise my ire. Prplhz today, you tomorrow. Don't listen to him, this is what scum is saying to try to make us doubt.
C9++ rolls...2 or 3 scum right? You're saying they either out their ENTIRE team or 2/3 of it to save one?
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On September 20 2012 06:00 Mementoss wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2012 05:59 austinmcc wrote:On September 20 2012 05:58 Blazinghand wrote:On September 20 2012 05:58 Hapahauli wrote:
Just wait 2 minutes BH. Just wait. Nice try, but I'm not unvoting, and neither is anyone else unless they want to raise my ire. Prplhz today, you tomorrow. Don't listen to him, this is what scum is saying to try to make us doubt. C9++ rolls...2 or 3 scum right? You're saying they either out their ENTIRE team or 2/3 of it to save one? could be 2 scum 1 SK
The SK possibility doesn't matter here, only the pure scum numbers. IF they're fakeclaiming it's a massive gamble and I don't really see them taking it.
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On September 20 2012 06:01 Zephirdd wrote:Show nested quote +Goon: You are a Rocker! You're smarter than the rest of these fools, and you know that a successful band doesn't have 13 people in it. That's just stupid. All those guys on MTV? How many people are in their bands? Four. Unfortunately, Tommy's mom won't let him join your band, so there's only three of you, but three is better than 13, right? The only reason you're here is to gain exposure by touring with da Band for a while, but really you just want the rest of them gone so everyone can see your style. You're gonna make it big some day. for those who missed it
That's kind of countered by:
This is a semi-open setup. You will know which roles may appear in the game but not the number. Well, there is at least one vanilla townie. But that's all you know.
I guess we can go look it up with time now, but I thought C9++ almost always or always rolls 2 scum/1 sk or 3 scum. But the numbers can vary between 2-3.
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Mattchew's nosy neighbor claim and this within 2 weeks...
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On September 20 2012 07:20 Hapahauli wrote:
Oh geezus goddamn christ I misread your post.
"liking austin more right now" = thinking austin is more townie as opposed to thinking austin is more scummy.
Anywho, surprised marv sheeped me on that one.
Marv was discussing lynching fuba before you brought up that post.
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On September 20 2012 11:17 Bluelightz wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On September 20 2012 11:12 Blazinghand wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2012 10:26 Bluelightz wrote:GOD DAMN prplhz/ -_-. Reading up on any accusations or shit (like questions D  well Bluelightz I got a question for you regarding your thought process near the end of D1. You made this post: Show nested quote +On September 19 2012 00:07 Bluelightz wrote:
Memen: Aren't you just deflecting pressure onto mkfuba? If you want to answer like that at least explain to me why it's the same, oh and answer my question. Mementoss made this post about 20 minutes later Show nested quote +On September 19 2012 00:26 Mementoss wrote:On September 19 2012 00:07 Bluelightz wrote:
Memen: Aren't you just deflecting pressure onto mkfuba? If you want to answer like that at least explain to me why it's the same, oh and answer my question. Read the thread I answered your questions. And please take off scum shaded glasses everytime you talk to me, I'm not deflecting pressure onto mkfuba, I'm getting verification from Marv, why he is biased towards one lurker over the other. >>SNIP<< and you reacted like this, unvoting him and moving your vote onto prplhz. Show nested quote +On September 19 2012 00:55 Bluelightz wrote:
Ah, Memen, I see. Good explanation.
##Unvote: Mementoss
##Vote: prplhz
If he doesn't step up his contributions (so do I), I think I'll keep my vote on him. I'll go into more detail on this tomorrow as I have to sleep. I'm not sure I see the same good explanation you do. You also mentioned if he didn't step up his contributions, you'll keep your vote on him. I know it's quite early right now in Indonesia but when you have the chance, I'd like to know what exactly about his explanation was good and convinced you you should move your vote. It's worth noting he actually said very little in the passage addressed to you, though he had a bit talking to mkfuba afterwards. Was his reference to previous posts enough to convince you? now that the lynch has taken place, what is this "more detail" you were going to go into on Mementoss? Please elaborate. No BH, I unvoted because of this: Show nested quote +On September 18 2012 23:14 Mementoss wrote:On September 18 2012 22:57 Bluelightz wrote:On September 18 2012 22:40 Mementoss wrote:
@Bluelightz case
I understand you just went through all my filter, and basically resaid the things I posted. I don't see how it makes me scum, and adding SCUM! at the end doesn't make it make me scummy lol. In the future when making a case, you should outline how the quotes make the person scum and not re-iterate what the post says.
Can't say much more now since I'm at work. Why do you have to point fingers on everyone and your now pushing Hapa but voting prplhz? If you want to know my best scum read, check who I'm voting, that will be it. I'm not pushing Hapa, I'm asking him to explain his reasoning more. Don't purposely misinterpret me, don't you see how far that got Zephridd with his case on Hapa? I'm allowed to pressure other players while voting another player. There is more than 1 scum in this game ya know. I would say the only other person I remotely pressured so far would be austinmcc's scummy indecisiveness.
I'm still quite interested in your read on mementoss. When you unvoted, you did so because of a question/answer unconnected to your case. What was your read on mementoss yesterday when you unvoted, and what is your read of mementoss now?
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On September 20 2012 11:40 Mementoss wrote:
Please stop wasting time with the reads on me.
I'd be interested for people's reads on the people that have been really out of the spotlight for the most part:
Zephridd
Bluelightz
HiroPro
I'll be back in the morning and dig their filters. Bluelightz made a giant post about you D1. Called you scum. Unvoted you for an odd reason. Never mentioned you again. When you return and dig his filter, you'll notice 1/2 of it's on you and 1/2 on prplhz.
I'm sort of wondering why the transition. I'm sort of wondering what he thinks of you. His read on you says a decent bit about him, so you should want him to let the thread know how he feels.
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Trying to do work during work today after yesterday's mafiafest. Will look more critically at palmar and marv.
Still currently have mementoss as my top read. Still really want to know Bluelightz's feelings on mementoss.
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On September 21 2012 01:45 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2012 01:37 marvellosity wrote:On September 21 2012 01:37 Hapahauli wrote:
Well actually, you had that quote in Normal Mini III about Bluelightz meta - he's obsessed with town when he's town, and scum when he's scum. Now I know you were scum that game, but I'm curious if you think that read is accurate?
Worth noting that Buelightz has no town reads this game. That would be the most compelling evidence, I think. Even in GSL he voted a 'null' read on Day 1 because everyone else seemed town. On the flip side to this (talking to myself here), Bluelightz backing down off Mementoss like that is a typical BL town thing to do.
I have not played with bluelightz, nor read his past games.
But I will note that he posted a case on mementoss and voted, then asked a question about mementoss pointing fingers at hapa. Mementoss answered bluelightz question; bluelightz voted prplhz.
Does he normally back down when someone responds at all or when they respond to his case? I'm still struggling with how mementoss never addresses the actual case at all, just says it's a collections of things with "SCUM!" attached, and bluelightz nonetheless removes his vote because mementoss answers a question that was asked after the case.
For reference - + Show Spoiler +On September 20 2012 04:50 austinmcc wrote:Just for later reference, the Bluelightz stuff: + Show Spoiler +(1) Bluelightz case on mementoss: + Show Spoiler +On September 18 2012 20:55 Bluelightz wrote:First, I think I should outline my main scum suspicions for now: Mementoss
So, basically, I don't think he's contributing. Show nested quote +On September 18 2012 06:21 Mementoss wrote:On September 18 2012 06:07 prplhz wrote:
hey guys
please no unnecessary bullshit it's perfectly possible to play the game without that and it only serves to make the game harder to read
there are a couple of people around i have no idea who is, can anybody explain to me who mkfuba07 is? well this is a lie already, what is it with people lieing on there first post? http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=355874You hosted a game he was in. More MKFUBA games if you want + Show Spoiler + Hey, here's some games on X, cheers! I think you obviously couldn't search em up yourself! (Scummy because he's just pointing out the obvious things: Filters of past games). Show nested quote +On September 18 2012 06:07 Mementoss wrote:
I think day one should be discussing what da bands name is gunna be Clearly trolling is a fine way to start the game! (Read: Nope, it's bad because it's not helping to find scum and win) Show nested quote +On September 18 2012 06:34 Mementoss wrote:On September 18 2012 06:28 prplhz wrote:
their*
So I am lying or what? I mean, I am not lying unless you think I am perfectly aware who mkfuba07 is yet claims not to be, is that the case?
Maybe you can actually explain to me who he is instead of coming up with a silly list that's readily available to me as well if I just go into his profile. I can do that on my own thank you very much. Thanks for the grammar lesson. Yes, I think if you hosted a game with the player was in it you would have an idea who he was. You asked about him clearly stating `there are a couple of people around i have no idea who is` in reference to MKfuba. Well, you sure made it seem like you were too lazy to find anything about him since you asked the thread about him. The only game I played with him was deathnote, he was active enough, but just seemed to sheep and not lead his own cases. Mostly a commentator. Comments on meta of people are clearly helping us to win the game by killing scum! (Nope.) Show nested quote +On September 18 2012 06:36 Mementoss wrote:On September 18 2012 06:32 iamperfection wrote:
I randomly suggest a lynch of Marvelosity.
Your guys thoughts? Well you have no basis right now to think he``s scum, so how does this idea make any sense. Town wins by killing all the scum. Well, this post is somewhat helping, by pressurign iamP for post's, but the other half is what? pointing out the wincons, cheers guys! I totally didn't know that. (Haha, no.) Show nested quote +On September 18 2012 06:43 Mementoss wrote:On September 18 2012 06:40 Hapahauli wrote:On September 18 2012 06:32 iamperfection wrote:
I randomly suggest a lynch of Marvelosity.
Your guys thoughts? Policy lynching one of the best town players day 1 =/= good idea. Like I'm all for policy lynching marv if he's alive past Night 3 (he's basically an auto N1/N2 NK for mafia if he's town), but that's about it. I propose a less-randomly decided lynch against iamperfection. Thoughts? These are the kinda thoughts you keep in your head. Mafia purposely keeps marv alive, for a totally WIFOM, end game cause of what you said. Explain why you think iamperfection is mafia because of that post. No random lynches. -First line: What the hell? -Second Line: Somewhat helpful by pointing out what mafia does with the WIFOM around marv, doesn't help much in finding scum though till late in the game. -Last line: This line is fine, pressures Hapa to post, the other statement is clear enough as well. Show nested quote +On September 18 2012 06:56 Mementoss wrote:On September 18 2012 06:50 Blazinghand wrote:
Hey pudding-munchers stop arguing about that and read my case I read it. It seems like you played with him alot and can really differentiate between his scum and town. It's not the most for sure case of all time, but the post felt scummy to me as soon as I read it and even moreso when I realized he hosted a game with MKfuba in it. He's the scummiest player so far. Iamperfection seems like noobie, why would mafia out themselves like that, also I think he is bitter because of his history with marv. ##vote: prplhzBlazinghand what do you think of hapa immediately coming to prplhz defence? + Show Spoiler +On September 18 2012 06:35 Hapahauli wrote:Hai gais! Good to be back in a mini so I can actually keep track of people more closely =) Show nested quote +On September 18 2012 06:21 Mementoss wrote:On September 18 2012 06:07 prplhz wrote:
hey guys
please no unnecessary bullshit it's perfectly possible to play the game without that and it only serves to make the game harder to read
there are a couple of people around i have no idea who is, can anybody explain to me who mkfuba07 is? well this is a lie already, what is it with people lieing on there first post? http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=355874You hosted a game he was in. More MKFUBA games if you want + Show Spoiler + Prplhz isn't exactly the most attentive host... I was in that game, and he basically forgot to make the last nightpost for a couple of hours. I wouldn't expect him to remember half the players in that game tbh =P Also what do you think of this clear contradiction from prplhz: + Show Spoiler +On September 18 2012 06:07 prplhz wrote:
hey guys
please no unnecessary bullshit it's perfectly possible to play the game without that and it only serves to make the game harder to read
there are a couple of people around i have no idea who is, can anybody explain to me who mkfuba07 is? On September 18 2012 06:08 prplhz wrote:Show nested quote +On September 18 2012 06:07 Mementoss wrote:
I think day one should be discussing what da bands name is gunna be name my band *Agrees with someone* *Tries to make connections with someone* *Points out contradiction which he doesn't explain though it is clear* Okay, this post mementoss is trying to find scum, but what is his objective by making a connection to Hapa?! (He's trying to possibly direct pressure off prplhz to Hapa, and confusing the lynch target for today) Show nested quote +On September 18 2012 07:01 Mementoss wrote:On September 18 2012 06:55 austinmcc wrote:On September 18 2012 06:50 Hapahauli wrote:
If mafia would like to keep hypothetical townie-marv alive to the endgame because of my "policy lynch," then awesome! Mission accomplished! Though in all seriousness, I've read through quite a few of his recent games. He never lives as town past N3 (barring Mad Men Mafia where he was a replacement) in his recent games. If he's alive a long time, there's a very high chance (IMO basically guaranteed chance) of him flipping red.
<3 everyone at all, but you need to look further. He's generally not being killed off for supersexy scumhunting, but because he comes off as very townie and is generating a lot of discussion/activity from others. His early reads, although I haven't read recent games, are not generally a big threat to mafia.
On September 18 2012 06:50 Blazinghand wrote:
Hey pudding-munchers stop arguing about that and read my case I don't know how anyone can munch on pudding. I DO kind of like that observation. It feels almost TOO obvious but...man it's kind of damning. TOO obvious, as in more obvious than Mattchew in LVII? http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=361826¤tpage=14#261Nothing, can be TOO obvious. Thats like saying you don't think someone is scum, because there TOO scummy. Stop waffling, either you think its scummy or you think its not. Don't say things like "kind of like" and "TOO obvious but damning", your all over the place bro. Denies the possibility of someone being town. Show nested quote +On September 18 2012 07:12 Mementoss wrote:On September 18 2012 07:07 Blazinghand wrote:On September 18 2012 07:04 Hapahauli wrote:
... or it's not obvious at all, and it's a typical bad D1 case making insane meta connections with barely any samplesize?
If you're pressuring him or whatever, cool, but the case is in no way "damning" or "TOO obvious." In fact, I'd expect scum to be the people most willing to be jumping on BH's case without so much as a thought. Namely austinmcc and mementoss I literally sampled every game he's played in the last 3 months. If you think he's so damn town either argue from this dataset, or increase it, or present another case. I do, however, agree with you that scum may try to bus him. Dudes jumping on his case without explanations as townies are A) letting scum do the same thing and skate by and B) setting themselves up for mislynches. If you have a reason to be for or against his lynch, STATE IT. As town you should have no reason to fear thinking openly and logically. Hapa is right (on this particular issue). I did explain it, I found his first post scummy and your case was just some icing on the scum. It's literally an hour in the game, there is no such thing as voting too early. If anything it's going to generate more discussion that can be looked into more later. But I agree on austinmcc being hard to tell what hes getting at as I pointed out, which seems scummy as he usually is very articulate in his posts and has a clear meaning for posting them. Talks about someone while inserting a subtle finger onto austinmcc (Hey I think X is scum, but why not lynch Y instead?) Show nested quote +On September 18 2012 08:02 Mementoss wrote:On September 18 2012 07:46 Hapahauli wrote:Alas! Austinmcc is at work so we won't be hearing from him for a while. One other post did catch my eye though: On September 18 2012 07:12 Mementoss wrote:On September 18 2012 07:07 Blazinghand wrote:On September 18 2012 07:04 Hapahauli wrote:
... or it's not obvious at all, and it's a typical bad D1 case making insane meta connections with barely any samplesize?
If you're pressuring him or whatever, cool, but the case is in no way "damning" or "TOO obvious." In fact, I'd expect scum to be the people most willing to be jumping on BH's case without so much as a thought. Namely austinmcc and mementoss I literally sampled every game he's played in the last 3 months. If you think he's so damn town either argue from this dataset, or increase it, or present another case. I do, however, agree with you that scum may try to bus him. Dudes jumping on his case without explanations as townies are A) letting scum do the same thing and skate by and B) setting themselves up for mislynches. If you have a reason to be for or against his lynch, STATE IT. As town you should have no reason to fear thinking openly and logically. Hapa is right (on this particular issue). I did explain it, I found his first post scummy and your case was just some icing on the scum. 1 It's literally an hour in the game, there is no such thing as voting too early. 2 If anything it's going to generate more discussion that can be looked into more later. 3 But I agree on austinmcc being hard to tell what hes getting at as I pointed out, which seems scummy as he usually is very articulate in his posts and has a clear meaning for posting them. 4 Holy wishy-washy post batman! Let's follow the logic: 1) First post is scummy and case makes prplhz scummier! 2) No such thing as voting too early! (errr... where did that come from? making excuses already?) 3) But eh... it will generate discussion and we'll look more into it later. (oh? thought prplhz was very scummy to you? awfully passive for such a strong read on him) 4) Holy freggin wishy-washy opinion on austinmcc. 1) Yeah first post was scummy and it fits the meta analysis aka best case atm. How is accusing people scummy? 2) I said no such thing as voting too early is because a lot of people think they have to wait till last minute to vote especially on day 1, and usually a bad consolidation happens. Voting earlier will just bring up more cases throughout the day. 3) Nothing to do with one another. 4) How is calling someone scummy wishy washy. I don't follow your logic. But I guess it's your thing to jump on me day 1s lol. Defend's himself, this is fine, as he is trying to prove he is town and indeed, not scum. Show nested quote +On September 18 2012 09:36 Mementoss wrote:On September 18 2012 09:30 iamperfection wrote:you case on prplhz is shit. a fucking meta case on 1 post come on. Although i dont think that was the point of your case i think the purpose was to drive discussion which it has done. Kudos to you. The purpose of my random lynch was an attempt to drive some discussion. I had already discussed with marv after my previous game in which palmar suggested a random lynch in order to drive discussion on day 1. Thats why i find it extremely wierd that marv didnt think it was random when i had already spoken with him that i would do it in my next game.On September 18 2012 06:46 marvellosity wrote:
P.S the whole point is that iamp's suggestion wasn't random, so we already have a liar. LAL? I say we respect his wishes. ## Vote Marvelosity Well, that means it isn't random because it was pre-meditated and thought out. Sooo, yeah. Point's out something on iamP's reason's on marv (subtlely defending him?) Show nested quote +On September 18 2012 09:39 Mementoss wrote:On September 18 2012 09:37 iamperfection wrote:On September 18 2012 09:36 Mementoss wrote:On September 18 2012 09:30 iamperfection wrote:you case on prplhz is shit. a fucking meta case on 1 post come on. Although i dont think that was the point of your case i think the purpose was to drive discussion which it has done. Kudos to you. The purpose of my random lynch was an attempt to drive some discussion. I had already discussed with marv after my previous game in which palmar suggested a random lynch in order to drive discussion on day 1. Thats why i find it extremely wierd that marv didnt think it was random when i had already spoken with him that i would do it in my next game.On September 18 2012 06:46 marvellosity wrote:
P.S the whole point is that iamp's suggestion wasn't random, so we already have a liar. LAL? I say we respect his wishes. ## Vote Marvelosity Well, that means it isn't random because it was pre-meditated and thought out. Sooo, yeah. Believe it or not it did randomly come out as marv. oh I thought your meant you told marv you would be voting for him specifically in the next game. acknowledges failure in understand iamP's reason's on marv, doesn't help find scum any how! Show nested quote +On September 18 2012 09:55 Mementoss wrote:On September 18 2012 09:54 Hapahauli wrote:
Well tbh, you could make that entire chart red - I lynched goodkarma in one game because I thought his play was "too clean" =P
But back to iamperfection, I'm definitely leaning scummy to him for now. I can't yet discount him just being plain pissed that you voted for him (a townie OMGUS type thing), but the sudden severity of it all is just really strange. Answer this, why would scum make their first post that? It obviously wouldn't do anything towards getting Marv lynched. It would only bring negative attention towards himself. Direct's more pressure on Hapa, So, now with this last quote I leave you with this question, Who is your main scum target memen? You voted prplhz, inserted subtle fingers on austinmcc, and is pressuring Hapa, who do you think is scum actually? Oh, and ##Vote: Mementoss (2) Ange asks why Bluelightz is voting Mementoss over prplhz: + Show Spoiler +On September 18 2012 22:36 Bluelightz wrote:Show nested quote +On September 18 2012 22:01 Ange777 wrote:@prplhz: On September 18 2012 20:33 prplhz wrote:
Disclaimer: I don't read any analysis that refer to the "Zephirdd Rule" also known as the "Kenpachi Rule Extended" because I think it's bullshit.
Anyway, HapaHauli is playing active and townie and I have no interest in lynching him today. Ange777 is looking terrible though.
@Ange777 Have you been scum at any point and can you direct me to one of those games?
List of people who suck: Bluelightz, marvellosity. What makes you think my play is terrible? And why does thinking the Kenpachi/Zephirdd Rule is bullshit entitle you to just ignore cases? Just because someone posts bullshit does not mean that it can't help you uncover scum. Again I don't see any kind of scum hunting from you. Scum? + Show Spoiler +In my first game ever I rolled scum: Newbie XII. @Bluelightz: What makes you think that Mementoss is more scummy than prplhz? Your biggest concern seems to be that he has many different scum reads but that does not mean that he is not contributing. In contrary it is better than prplhz's filter who has not backed up his suspicions with an explanation at all. Haven't read on him yet, and when I read the thread once I came back from school he didn't stick out, I'll get to reading him now and adjust my reads accordingly. (3) Bluelightz asks questions about what Mementoss is doing at that time in the thread, while saying he finds prplhz scummy but not giving more than general reasoning: + Show Spoiler +On September 18 2012 22:57 Bluelightz wrote:Show nested quote +On September 18 2012 22:40 Mementoss wrote:
@Bluelightz case
I understand you just went through all my filter, and basically resaid the things I posted. I don't see how it makes me scum, and adding SCUM! at the end doesn't make it make me scummy lol. In the future when making a case, you should outline how the quotes make the person scum and not re-iterate what the post says.
Can't say much more now since I'm at work. Why do you have to point fingers on everyone and your now pushing Hapa but voting prplhz? On September 18 2012 23:12 Bluelightz wrote:
Hmm, prplhz seems even more useless then mementoss, he has declared his stances on some people, and as you said, some unexplained reads. On September 19 2012 00:07 Bluelightz wrote:
Memen: Aren't you just deflecting pressure onto mkfuba? If you want to answer like that at least explain to me why it's the same, oh and answer my question. (4) Mementoss responds to Bluelightz case and question: + Show Spoiler +On September 18 2012 22:40 Mementoss wrote:
@Bluelightz case
I understand you just went through all my filter, and basically resaid the things I posted. I don't see how it makes me scum, and adding SCUM! at the end doesn't make it make me scummy lol. In the future when making a case, you should outline how the quotes make the person scum and not re-iterate what the post says.
Can't say much more now since I'm at work. On September 18 2012 23:14 Mementoss wrote:Show nested quote +On September 18 2012 22:57 Bluelightz wrote:On September 18 2012 22:40 Mementoss wrote:
@Bluelightz case
I understand you just went through all my filter, and basically resaid the things I posted. I don't see how it makes me scum, and adding SCUM! at the end doesn't make it make me scummy lol. In the future when making a case, you should outline how the quotes make the person scum and not re-iterate what the post says.
Can't say much more now since I'm at work. Why do you have to point fingers on everyone and your now pushing Hapa but voting prplhz? If you want to know my best scum read, check who I'm voting, that will be it. I'm not pushing Hapa, I'm asking him to explain his reasoning more. Don't purposely misinterpret me, don't you see how far that got Zephridd with his case on Hapa? I'm allowed to pressure other players while voting another player. There is more than 1 scum in this game ya know. I would say the only other person I remotely pressured so far would be austinmcc's scummy indecisiveness. On September 19 2012 00:26 Mementoss wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2012 00:07 Bluelightz wrote:
Memen: Aren't you just deflecting pressure onto mkfuba? If you want to answer like that at least explain to me why it's the same, oh and answer my question. Read the thread I answered your questions. And please take off scum shaded glasses everytime you talk to me, I'm not deflecting pressure onto mkfuba, I'm getting verification from Marv, why he is biased towards one lurker over the other. RESPONSE TO NON-BLUELIGHTZ STUFF SNIPPED (5) Bluelightz response: + Show Spoiler +On September 19 2012 00:55 Bluelightz wrote:
Ah, Memen, I see. Good explanation.
##Unvote: Mementoss
##Vote: prplhz
If he doesn't step up his contributions (so do I), I think I'll keep my vote on him. I'll go into more detail on this tomorrow as I have to sleep. mementoss never really addresses Bluelightz' case. Just dislikes it as a whole, doesn't find any of what Bluelightz found scummy to be scummy. mementoss answers a follow-up question that Bluelightz had. Bluelightz asked this question without responding to mementoss's wholesale dismissal of his case. Bluelightz accepts that answer, unvotes, votes prplhz without giving much/any reasoning until today (there's a small bit in his response to Ange but it's generalized comments and you don't see any bluelightz-specific thoughts) Bluelightz then says today, at the end of his prplhz post: Basically that's why and I'll be happy to answer any questions/ give opinions on anyone. Noticeably hasn't updated his read on mementoss. We're not even sure if bluelightz finds mementoss scummy anymore, as the unvote was NOT related to a refutation of the case, so bluelightz should still be standing by his case. He doesn't drop in to say anything about mementoss at all, despite his initial target picking up SOME steam (yes yes, I know he's not leading in votes or anything) I do not like this interaction at all. Burying it in spoilers, don't want to push bluelightz today, but I really, really dislike that interaction. If I end up dying, someone please dig this up.
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On September 21 2012 04:21 Mementoss wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2012 01:50 Hapahauli wrote:Yeah, like I"m comparing his mentality here to his mentality in some of his other town games. His Normal Mini III play should speak for itself (townie reads on everrrryone), but take one of his posts in GSL Mini for example: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=365925¤tpage=15#295He doesn't really tunnel 1 scumread. Gives a townie, null, and slightly scummy read all in one post. There are several posts like that throughout his filter - he rarely takes a hardline "tunnel-y" opinion on someone in that game. Or his first post in GSL: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=365925¤tpage=7#128He establishes Risen as town when the whole town wants to lynch him.
The most recent scumgame I found in his filter was Normal Mini II http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=349058&user=235418He does play a fairly different meta than this game (few very long posts, etc), but I think he's displaying a similar mentality. He's very critical of people's play in his scumgame (as he was with prplzh). He's much more sure of his reads, similar to this game. This could be a trip down meta-confirmationbais lane and I'll have to look more into it, but the mentality IMO is striking. I'd be interested to hear other's thoughts. I would disagree he seemed very unsure of his read on me in the early game this game. When Bluelightz posted his case on you, posed a question, then unvoted later, did you feel like he was consistent in his behavior? Entirely independent of your alignment, how did you read Bluelightz vote/unvote?
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On September 21 2012 04:50 Mementoss wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2012 04:31 austinmcc wrote:On September 21 2012 04:21 Mementoss wrote:On September 21 2012 01:50 Hapahauli wrote:Yeah, like I"m comparing his mentality here to his mentality in some of his other town games. His Normal Mini III play should speak for itself (townie reads on everrrryone), but take one of his posts in GSL Mini for example: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=365925¤tpage=15#295He doesn't really tunnel 1 scumread. Gives a townie, null, and slightly scummy read all in one post. There are several posts like that throughout his filter - he rarely takes a hardline "tunnel-y" opinion on someone in that game. Or his first post in GSL: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=365925¤tpage=7#128He establishes Risen as town when the whole town wants to lynch him.
The most recent scumgame I found in his filter was Normal Mini II http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=349058&user=235418He does play a fairly different meta than this game (few very long posts, etc), but I think he's displaying a similar mentality. He's very critical of people's play in his scumgame (as he was with prplzh). He's much more sure of his reads, similar to this game. This could be a trip down meta-confirmationbais lane and I'll have to look more into it, but the mentality IMO is striking. I'd be interested to hear other's thoughts. I would disagree he seemed very unsure of his read on me in the early game this game. When Bluelightz posted his case on you, posed a question, then unvoted later, did you feel like he was consistent in his behavior? Entirely independent of your alignment, how did you read Bluelightz vote/unvote? It seemed legit to me, I think he wrote his case came back and realized it was pretty wrong/bad. Then my responses cleared up any doubts he had.
Okay. Any posts you can link to back those thoughts up? Specifically the him realizing it was wrong/bad and what responses cleared things up.
Trying to see that interaction from all angles, although he doesn't seem to <3 responding to things.
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Unless my supervisor drops by, I'm going to dedicate most of this last hour to this game. Things I know I want to look at:- marv and palmar
- ange777. I replaced in for her in a newbie game where she felt like a very solid player, as far as I know she played well in other games? Feel like her pushing prplhz so hard, especially towards the last bit of D1, should have generated enough posts that I can get a solid read off her
- Zephirdd - I know he was active early, then it felt like he slipped away for a long time, only to come back and demand votes. Need to double-check that was what happened and get a stronger read on him
Is there anything that anyone wants me to address specifically? I know I'm null to a lot of people, or still scummy.
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On September 21 2012 05:03 Hapahauli wrote:Ok actually this post by mkfuba is really freggin weird. Show nested quote +On September 20 2012 03:56 mkfuba07 wrote:On September 20 2012 02:58 marvellosity wrote:On September 20 2012 02:56 mkfuba07 wrote:
EBWOP: "He mentions them elsewhere, but doesn't explain them until after he's posted the list." I feel like at that point it's not even a summary, it's just a list of people who don't have to worry about being pressured by prplhz.
Sorry for posting so much right now. I believe I have class during the deadline, and while I will have access to a computer for the later half of it, I can't guarantee that I'll have time to keep posting then. As your vote is currently on austinmcc, care to comment on his case and what you make of his recent activity? Absolutely! I think the most convincing thing about it is the overall feeling that MMToss isn't really pressuring his scumreads. He hasn't said much about prplhz since the vote until his post about marv and I being suspicious together. I actually forgot that he even had his vote on him. Austinmcc didn't feel particularly pressured. And despite feeling like MMToss should be voting for me instead of prplhz based on his posting so far, I don't feel particularly pressured by him. He seems to be kind of passively throwing around suspicion, but keeping his vote firmly set on prplhz without any force behind it. I'm not sure if this is necessarily scummy (I know, wishy-washy), but I don't feel like it's consistent with MMToss's town play (the limited amount that I have experienced). Gotta switch classrooms... I'll take another look at austin's recent posts and comment when I'm settled in the other room. Sorry about that :< Marv asked him for his read on austinmcc. "Absolutely!" "MMtoss is playing strange..." "I'll look at austin later" Wat?
Maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaan, see yesterday's discussion. Yes, that's a weird post. My initial gut reaction was that it was a screwup between the two for some posts they'd planned out in QT. I think that's being overly paranoid, but it IS quite the weird response to that question.
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marv, thoughts on Hiro and Bluelightz? You had hiro scummy for a bit, agreed with a lot of what he was posting, and generally had a lot of ... I dunno, distant interaction? with him. Agreeing with his points, directing others to look at his posts for your thoughts. Where does your read on him stand atm?
Also, can you give any sort of read on ange?
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EBWOP: Scratch Bluelightz from that question. I dunno how that got in there. Just wondering about hiro/ange
On September 21 2012 05:20 austinmcc wrote:
marv, thoughts on Hiro and Bluelightz? You had hiro scummy for a bit, agreed with a lot of what he was posting, and generally had a lot of ... I dunno, distant interaction? with him. Agreeing with his points, directing others to look at his posts for your thoughts. Where does your read on him stand atm?
Also, can you give any sort of read on ange?
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Ugh. Rushing to get this out.
I don't want to lynch marv or palmar tomorrow at the moment. Just mild townreads on each. Any suspicions are pretty weak, and it's stuff like:
palmar isn't giving much reasoning behind his reads currently. But if you look at the FIRST reads he gave on his initial readthrough of the thread, there was some more reasoning, pointing out posts, and definitive explanations that X's response to this specific question from Y meant that he had a townread on X. Unsure why the manner in which he gives his reads has changed.
marv HIMSELF reads townie to me, but I keep being paranoid and feeling like his interactions with hiro and interactions with ange are odd. There are lots of little back and forths between the two.
hiropro reads town by himself, but again it's odd interactions with marv. marv asking for hiro to go grab certain posts about mementoss/hapa early, hiro does so, felt townie on its own. hiro's suspicions on me felt probably townie to me.
ange, upon reread, did put in a good bit of effort. And there are a lot of posts that I really like, some of the ways in which she explained her townread on me, and some of the posts where she and I were following the same trains of thought (iamperfections vote on me, phoneposted explanation, that whole bit). However, I'd like ange to answer a couple things:
On September 20 2012 04:00 Ange777 wrote:
I agree with austinmcc's case that Mementoss does not follow up his questions. I have to read through his filter once more though to give a final stance on him.
Who was the final his/him in this sentence? If they were about me, you did give an updated read, but could you give an updated read of mementoss? I didn't see you talk much about him.
Also, I think you(Ange) misinterpreted this post: + Show Spoiler +On September 21 2012 01:07 Ange777 wrote:Finally people are taking a closer look at Palmar. I don't know about his past achievements of being perhaps a terrific scum hunter but I have not seen anything worthy of being praised like that in this game yet. Unfortunately I won't be in for the deadline, for now my top scum reads are Palmar and iamperfection. @iamperfection: Show nested quote +On September 20 2012 22:57 iamperfection wrote:
also at ange i want to you to explain more on your thought process at the deadline. What was going through your head when the claims came out.
What was going on? I have you marked as a scum read that's what's going on. Why would someone give up his right to vote just to simply sheep another player? Especially sheeping someone you yourself called a terrible townie. There is no town motivatoin for that kind of play. Publicly stating to sheep your town read just gives you an excuse to be wrong with your vote because you were not responsible for it. And suddenly vote switching in the last minutes onto the seemingly scum prplhz whom you had not mentioned again after dismissing Blazinghand's case as being a weak meta case is just something I don't understand. Two possibilities: 1) You are town. You want to make sure prplhz gets lynched. But we already had the majority to lynch him. So why the last minute vote? We discussed prplhz a lot before the end of Day 1 and you did not give your stance on him. 2) You are scum. You wanted to get some town cred for jumping on "scum prplhz". Right now I am leaning to 2 as you still haven't given me a satisfying answer for your voting behaviour. On September 20 2012 05:57 Ange777 wrote:
So you are confirming Hapa's mason claim?
and then didn't do anything with his response until On September 20 2012 06:03 Ange777 wrote:
Where is the flip? I wanna get the celebration starting
after the deadline. Why did you want to know whether prplhz confirmed the mason claim if you weren't going to do anything about it?
Haven't gotten to zephirdd.
Right now, still not unconvinced about mementoss.
Still want bluelightz to answer some questions about his swap, or to just actually be back in thread
Would like answers from ange about those questions to her, a little worried about them
mildly townie on marv, the scummiest parts i see are his interactions with hiro/ange, although nothing is glaringly scummy about any of it.
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So...all we have to do is google "scum [playername]"
If it comes back an exploding toilet - town
Anything else(?) - scum
Game over.
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On September 21 2012 06:05 Hapahauli wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2012 06:04 Mementoss wrote:
well this is shit on 2 levels
it doesn't confirm me town at all
and i didn't hit scum. It doesnt?
SK
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On September 21 2012 06:06 Mementoss wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2012 06:05 Hapahauli wrote:On September 21 2012 06:04 Mementoss wrote:
well this is shit on 2 levels
it doesn't confirm me town at all
and i didn't hit scum. It doesnt? Mafia should have 2 kp if 3 players or 1 kp SK and 1 kp mafia
•Scum KP is fixed at 1. SK KP is fixed at 1.
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oh, wp bh. Thanks for getting us off to a great start.
mementoss, you're not CONFIRMED, but it does make you look better.
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On September 21 2012 07:43 Hapahauli wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2012 07:33 marvellosity wrote:
Hapa, just because it came to mind - what do you make of Ange quizzing iamperfection about his vote around the time of the lynch / dumb claims? It's pretty strange, given that ange herself was active in the thread during the whole mason-claim fiasco. However, there's just too much overall effort in her posting for me to give her a scumread, despite her relentless tunneling of prplzh. She was never afraid to comment in detail on other cases (Palmar's case on marv), and as far as I'm concerned, was the only player in the thread to have decent rationale for voting him.
Go look at how she was active during that time.
It's one of the few things that gives me pause. She was very active in the hours leading up to the lynch.
Hapa and prplhz claimed at 5:54 - + Show Spoiler +On September 20 2012 05:54 Hapahauli wrote:
Fuck this I'm claiming.
Prplhz is my mason buddy
That much should be obvious for how much I've been defending him all game. On September 20 2012 05:54 prplhz wrote:
fuck it guys
i'm the vigilante
i can shoot someone tonight
Ange's filter from that point on is:On September 20 2012 05:55 Ange777 wrote:
I'm speechless. Nice claims ...
On September 20 2012 05:57 Ange777 wrote:
So you are confirming Hapa's mason claim?
On September 20 2012 05:58 Ange777 wrote:
Why are you ninja voting iamperfection???
On September 20 2012 06:03 Ange777 wrote:
Where is the flip? I wanna get the celebration starting
On September 20 2012 06:03 Ange777 wrote:
Seriously?
On September 20 2012 06:04 Ange777 wrote:
Claiming mason is so easy and you really waited till the last few minutes to do it?
Again, I had the same exact feeling that ange was active around deadline, but the timing didn't match up. She had a lot of activity in the hour or two before the lynch, but she did NOTHING with the claims. She seemed more worried about iamperfection's vote that the claims themselves, as that's her only comment between asking if prplz could confirm hapa's mason claim and then commenting that she was waiting for the flip 3 minutes after deadline.
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On September 21 2012 08:44 Hapahauli wrote:Austin, can you clarify something for me? Show nested quote +...
Again, I had the same exact feeling that ange was active around deadline, but the timing didn't match up. She had a lot of activity in the hour or two before the lynch, but she did NOTHING with the claims. She seemed more worried about iamperfection's vote that the claims themselves, as that's her only comment between asking if prplz could confirm hapa's mason claim and then commenting that she was waiting for the flip 3 minutes after deadline. I'm not exactly sure what you mean by the bolded.
5 minutes to deadline - nice claims
3 minutes to deadline - "are you confirming mason?"
That's it. She seems to disbelieve the claims, but then asks "are you confirming mason?" However, she doesn't care about the answer. 3 minutes after deadline she's just waiting for flip.
It really reminds me of something I semi-caught from Mattchew in Can't Believe. He asked for reads on marv, 2 people gave townreads on marv, then Mattchew votes marv. It made it look like he was just asking the question, but didn't care about responses.
Ange asks if prplhz is confirming the mason claim, but doesn't do anything after. Doesn't push him hard for an answer. Doesn't even say if she believes the claim or not, which a lot of people were doing. She just throws that question out there 3 minutes before deadline, and is back 3 minutes after deadline to say "Where's the flip?"
I don't feel that her silence after that question is townie. She should at least be concerned about the answer if she's going to ask. But she doesn't seem to have been concerned, and she didn't say anything about whether or not she believed the mason claim, found them town/scum, etc.
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As a more specific response, just her posting around deadline was useless.
The claims came in. She said nice claims, asked prplhz to confirm mason, and then dipped out for 6 minutes. I find it scummy.
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Hapa, mull this post over along with the timing. I think this is much more likely to be a genuine misunderstanding, but it's her response to iam when asked about her actions around the deadline. I found the answer she gave interesting.
On September 21 2012 01:07 Ange777 wrote:@iamperfection: Show nested quote +On September 20 2012 22:57 iamperfection wrote:
also at ange i want to you to explain more on your thought process at the deadline. What was going through your head when the claims came out.
What was going on? I have you marked as a scum read that's what's going on. Why would someone give up his right to vote just to simply sheep another player? Especially sheeping someone you yourself called a terrible townie. There is no town motivatoin for that kind of play. Publicly stating to sheep your town read just gives you an excuse to be wrong with your vote because you were not responsible for it. And suddenly vote switching in the last minutes onto the seemingly scum prplhz whom you had not mentioned again after dismissing Blazinghand's case as being a weak meta case is just something I don't understand. Two possibilities: 1) You are town. You want to make sure prplhz gets lynched. But we already had the majority to lynch him. So why the last minute vote? We discussed prplhz a lot before the end of Day 1 and you did not give your stance on him. 2) You are scum. You wanted to get some town cred for jumping on "scum prplhz". Right now I am leaning to 2 as you still haven't given me a satisfying answer for your voting behaviour.
When asked about what was going through her head at deadline, she discusses iam's ninja vote 2 minutes before deadline.
We know she was in thread because she posted with 3 minutes to go asking prplhz that question. With 2 minutes to go she picks up on iamperfection's vote --> watching thread. But then nothing, and either misinterprets or dodges the question from iam here.
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On September 21 2012 09:38 Hapahauli wrote:@ austinI think it's a scumslip actually. This is the main thing I'm focusing on: Show nested quote +On September 20 2012 06:03 Ange777 wrote:
Where is the flip? I wanna get the celebration starting After the fail-claim, Ange is convinced that prplzh and I are scum. Her second post just doesn't make sense with this mentality. Show nested quote +On September 21 2012 01:07 Ange777 wrote:@iamperfection: On September 20 2012 22:57 iamperfection wrote:
also at ange i want to you to explain more on your thought process at the deadline. What was going through your head when the claims came out.
What was going on? I have you marked as a scum read that's what's going on. Why would someone give up his right to vote just to simply sheep another player? Especially sheeping someone you yourself called a terrible townie. There is no town motivatoin for that kind of play. Publicly stating to sheep your town read just gives you an excuse to be wrong with your vote because you were not responsible for it. And suddenly vote switching in the last minutes onto the seemingly scum prplhz whom you had not mentioned again after dismissing Blazinghand's case as being a weak meta case is just something I don't understand. Two possibilities: 1) You are town. You want to make sure prplhz gets lynched. But we already had the majority to lynch him. So why the last minute vote? We discussed prplhz a lot before the end of Day 1 and you did not give your stance on him. 2) You are scum. You wanted to get some town cred for jumping on "scum prplhz". The fail-claim re-enforcing her read on prplzh should be fresh in her mind. Yet she doesn't even consider that iamperfection switched his vote for that reason. Instead, we get a giant diatribe on voting "responsibility." It should be really clear to "town Ange" why iamperfection switched his vote. Iamperfection switched after the fail-claim, and there's no reason that Ange should be suspicious of him. Nice catch Austin. ##Unvote Bluelightz
##Vote Ange777Note, I still have my eye on Bluelightz
As do I, although I will note that I find it interesting that you and marv are heavily discussing Bluelightz past play and his prplhz case (I agree that it feels like overkill). What i found most odd was the way he switched off mementoss for reasons entirely unrelated to his case.
I'm a big fan of multiple players having different reasoning and both arriving on scummy, although I'm still more at concerned about bluelightz than outright scummy. I do wish he'd make good on his requests for questions and actually answer them.
As to ange, one level deeper down the rabbit hole is "Ange was around those couple minutes at deadline but not posting in thread because she was busy in scum QT jumping up and down at lucking out and hitting a mason." If we flip her, and she flips scum, it's an interesting time period to look around for absences, although she pops out because of her questioning and then disappearance more than the absence itself.
I'd be interested in Palmar's thoughts on ange. She was in prplhz's "scummy" range, along with hiropro, who seems to be palmar's lynch preference for today. Palmar was that one of prplhz's reads you were alright with? If so, do you want to share reasoning?
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On September 21 2012 10:30 Mementoss wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2012 10:24 marvellosity wrote:
I'm still going through this all myself, but Mementoss:
whether Ange flips scum or not, I found the fact that austin went back to examine the actually happenings right around the lynch as quite a townie thing to do. Scum look for dirt and do work etc but only town want to work out exactly the reactions on the lynch. What do you tihnk about this? I haven't completely looked through his filter, but the way I generally do this is, I get a gut feeling, then I check the out the filter to see if it matches my thoughts. I gotta go over it when I have time. There is so much shit in there I dont think 1 town looking post will make him seem town but we will see.
Look at zee filter. I mention that I'm looking at ange before night ends. I mention that I'm concerned about her around vote time. I believe I asked marv for his thoughts on ange, and pushed hapa as well.
It does not make me town, but just notice who you got ninjaed by.
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On September 21 2012 10:28 Mementoss wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2012 10:02 austinmcc wrote:On September 21 2012 09:38 Hapahauli wrote:@ austinI think it's a scumslip actually. This is the main thing I'm focusing on: On September 20 2012 06:03 Ange777 wrote:
Where is the flip? I wanna get the celebration starting After the fail-claim, Ange is convinced that prplzh and I are scum. Her second post just doesn't make sense with this mentality. On September 21 2012 01:07 Ange777 wrote:@iamperfection: On September 20 2012 22:57 iamperfection wrote:
also at ange i want to you to explain more on your thought process at the deadline. What was going through your head when the claims came out.
What was going on? I have you marked as a scum read that's what's going on. Why would someone give up his right to vote just to simply sheep another player? Especially sheeping someone you yourself called a terrible townie. There is no town motivatoin for that kind of play. Publicly stating to sheep your town read just gives you an excuse to be wrong with your vote because you were not responsible for it. And suddenly vote switching in the last minutes onto the seemingly scum prplhz whom you had not mentioned again after dismissing Blazinghand's case as being a weak meta case is just something I don't understand. Two possibilities: 1) You are town. You want to make sure prplhz gets lynched. But we already had the majority to lynch him. So why the last minute vote? We discussed prplhz a lot before the end of Day 1 and you did not give your stance on him. 2) You are scum. You wanted to get some town cred for jumping on "scum prplhz". The fail-claim re-enforcing her read on prplzh should be fresh in her mind. Yet she doesn't even consider that iamperfection switched his vote for that reason. Instead, we get a giant diatribe on voting "responsibility." It should be really clear to "town Ange" why iamperfection switched his vote. Iamperfection switched after the fail-claim, and there's no reason that Ange should be suspicious of him. Nice catch Austin. ##Unvote Bluelightz
##Vote Ange777Note, I still have my eye on Bluelightz As do I, although I will note that I find it interesting that you and marv are heavily discussing Bluelightz past play and his prplhz case (I agree that it feels like overkill). What i found most odd was the way he switched off mementoss for reasons entirely unrelated to his case. I'm a big fan of multiple players having different reasoning and both arriving on scummy, although I'm still more at concerned about bluelightz than outright scummy. I do wish he'd make good on his requests for questions and actually answer them.
As to ange, one level deeper down the rabbit hole is "Ange was around those couple minutes at deadline but not posting in thread because she was busy in scum QT jumping up and down at lucking out and hitting a mason." If we flip her, and she flips scum, it's an interesting time period to look around for absences, although she pops out because of her questioning and then disappearance more than the absence itself. I'd be interested in Palmar's thoughts on ange. She was in prplhz's "scummy" range, along with hiropro, who seems to be palmar's lynch preference for today. Palmar was that one of prplhz's reads you were alright with? If so, do you want to share reasoning? Austinmcc doing ange777 the favour with the soft defense here. A bunch of fluff with such a weird way of talking about ange, no solid view on her at all. Waiting for palmars thoughts on her before he gives his own. God damn your scum. Also, trying to bring back up the bluelightz discussion as soon as ange777 votes come and someone asks his feelings on her, deflection much? Give us a solid fucking read with your answers unless your scum, then keep playing this way.
EBWOP: Once you read, you'll notice that this post is silly. It looks like a bunch of fluff because I had already posted all the bit on ange. Notice hapa's "nice catch austin." I'd already covered all I wanted to with ange, glad that people are agreeing.
Palmar's thoughts on ange would still be nice, but no, I'm not waiting on them in order to give my own.
But, to make you a little happier, ##Vote: ange777
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On September 21 2012 10:54 marvellosity wrote:
like seriously tell me austin, as a townie after a townie just died to the lynch, is it even possible to think that someone hopped on to a town lynch for town credit?
I think I get what you're getting at, and the only way I can make that work is if ange thinks this was iamperfection's thought process:
(1) prplhz is getting lynched
(2) some townies are voting prplhz
(3) townies think he's scum
(4) I want the townies to think I am one of them
(5) I will act like a townie and vote prplhz
But that's kind of ridiculous. If you buy in to that, then you're in a mindset where iamperfection would think he could get towncred JUST BY VOTING in either direction - towncred for not lynching a townie, towncred for being with some townies. That's silliness.
screw this answer. no, it's not really a possible thought.
On September 21 2012 10:57 marvellosity wrote:
I need to read the thread more closely if i'm missing shit like that on first pass
awww, you're not that heavy.
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On September 21 2012 22:32 Palmar wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2012 22:26 marvellosity wrote:
Yes, you do need to, because otherwise Ange will get lynched. And then we will lynch you next for being useless.
Tell us how her actions around the lynch time can be viewed with a townie perspective. "No" simply isn't good enough. So let's say Ange gets lynched and flips town, are you going to try and lynch me for being useless. I don't think there's enough dumb players in this game. In fact, connecting an unrevealed lynch like that to me somehow is just reinforcing my belief that you should die today. You're basically already planning for the next move after Ange gets mislynched. Fuck that, I'm not allowing you to do that. ##Vote marvellosity@Restoftown: Here's a very simple reason for this vote. Marv just made a post where he's planning on how to proceed in the game without considering the results of his current plan right now, which is indicative of him having additional information that we don't have, ie already knowing how an Ange lynch will end.
Palmar, I still very much agree with you that Marv's game changed after your accusations. His filter was completely meh beforehand, and he's been far more active since that point
On September 21 2012 22:41 Palmar wrote:
Well then I blow it.
You see, by now you've spammed the thread hard enough that there is no chance that I'm ever going to actually get you lynched. I would actually much rather town lynched me than Ange, because at least then I've flipped, and people can start reading back to what I've said. I don't think this is entirely true, but I see what you're getting at. So far this town has seemed more than willing to consider most candidates and actually discuss them. Look at where this discussion on ange started. When I was asking for reads while being troubled about her, I got "townie because of effort." To some extent, that's what you're saying about marv, right? He's posted enough, got his finger in enough pies, that town won't lynch him. It seems clear based on what has happened with ange, however, that town is more than willing to lynch an active participant if you can find a convincing angle for it, something that really doesn't match up with town play or a town mindset. As of yet, I'm unconvinced by the points you've made about marv, see my earlier response to you.
Moreover, a LOT of the things you've found scummy about marv are things that I know I'm doing as well, and that I'm doing as town. I don't know marv's alignment, but I know mine, so just because he does x or y can't make him scum because I'm doing those as town. I've already thought heavily, and posted somewhat, on what ange's flip may mean. I don't find it scummy to think ahead of the lynch at all. It is not really HELPFUL town play to be speculating about the future, but it's also not inherently scummy, or at least it's something I'm prone to as town.
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On September 22 2012 00:19 marvellosity wrote:
That says nothing at all, well done again. No reasoning for anything at any point in that post.
I don't know if you're trying to or not, but this keeps clogging up the thread. The majority of his posts have not included reasoning. You've got a lot of posts calling him out on that. We see the lack of reasoning; you can stop. Nobody is sitting in thread saying Palmar has done a great job of letting us see where he's getting his calls from. Nobody is sheeping his reads either. I still don't know what to make of Palmar, but 10 more discussions of how he's not giving full-throated reads isn't going to do anything for anyone.
Moreover, some of those reads DO have reasoning, but earlier in thread - I know iam was covered in his first reads, I believe he may have given reasoning for hiro at some point (not entirely sure there). There's no NEED for reasoning on hapa, and little need for anything on mementoss.
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On September 22 2012 00:29 marvellosity wrote:
No, he never ever gave reasoning for Hiro. The fact that you don't even fucking realise this is why I should keep pointing stuff like that out. In short, piss off austin.
Yup, I was wrong. No reasoning on Hiro.
But no, it's not a reason to keep pointing it out, and it's especially not a reason to keep sniping at him. If you've been trying to potty train a kid for 8 years and he's still just peeing himself at the dinner table, then at some point you give up on it. You strap a diaper and a helmet on him and send him out into the world to go count to purple. Anybody who thinks, right now, "Palmar is giving a hell of a lot of good reasoning behind his reads" is that kid. Anybody who isn't doesn't need to be informed that there's still a lack of involvement.
Spend your energy elsewhere. I've seen you get tangled up with one person for an entire cycle, and it neuters your ability to do anything else. IF Palmar is scum, then it feels like that's what is going on, you're just being goaded into wasting all your effort on sniping/fuming/looking at Palmar.
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Bluelightz, what is your current read on mementoss? What was your read at the time you unvoted?
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On September 22 2012 00:41 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On September 22 2012 00:38 austinmcc wrote:On September 22 2012 00:29 marvellosity wrote:
No, he never ever gave reasoning for Hiro. The fact that you don't even fucking realise this is why I should keep pointing stuff like that out. In short, piss off austin. Yup, I was wrong. No reasoning on Hiro. But no, it's not a reason to keep pointing it out, and it's especially not a reason to keep sniping at him. If you've been trying to potty train a kid for 8 years and he's still just peeing himself at the dinner table, then at some point you give up on it. You strap a diaper and a helmet on him and send him out into the world to go count to purple. Anybody who thinks, right now, "Palmar is giving a hell of a lot of good reasoning behind his reads" is that kid. Anybody who isn't doesn't need to be informed that there's still a lack of involvement. Spend your energy elsewhere. I've seen you get tangled up with one person for an entire cycle, and it neuters your ability to do anything else. IF Palmar is scum, then it feels like that's what is going on, you're just being goaded into wasting all your effort on sniping/fuming/looking at Palmar. Why say this? I'm voting for Ange, and I think I found another scum in HiroPro. Why don't you discuss what I said about HiroPro instead of YOU pointlessly sniping at ME, hypocritically?
I'm saying it because 1/2 your filter is "Palmar no reasoning" and that's not helpful AND I've seen you get flustered by someone and throw away a cycle.
I can't say I'm not trying to snipe at you, but ... it's different? You're sniping at Palmar isn't helping anything. He's clearly not running scared and giving oodles of reasoning in his posts. Nobody in town is going "Man, I didn't believe marv the other 16 times, but now I do when he brings it up for the 17th time." You're not GOING to convince anyone of that. Nor do you need to, because everyone else is reading palmar's posts.
Me chiding you over this is hopefully different, or at the very least I'm not going to keep doing this every time you post about palmar. I'm hoping I CAN convince you that you can do work elsewhere, or at the very least just not post when you see Palmar give a post you find shitty. You don't even have to direct energy elsewhere, fine, but you can stop using it on Palmar's lack of reasoning, because it just increases thread size.
However, I'll go look at hiropro. But...you haven't been as vocal on him as you think? Heres you on Hiro the last 20 hours or so...
On September 21 2012 05:24 marvellosity wrote:
Hiro I'm leaning town on now. In his massive post whenever it was he brought up a load of well thought out points, including analysis and quotes from other games, such as prplhz sheeping Palmar, and my tendency to believe the scummy things I do point towards me being town. I also liked his assessment on how you were appearing apologetic. Basically I'm leaning town on him because many of his thoughts have been unique this game and I like the way he thinks and agree with it much of the time. The thing that stops me giving a firm read of town is that he's still more... detached from the thread than he might be.
On September 21 2012 05:38 marvellosity wrote:
he didn't 'explain' anything on his 2nd highest scumread, HiroPro.
On September 21 2012 06:43 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2012 06:42 Palmar wrote:
HiroPro.
Would you agree on lynching him?
I don't have the time to write up a case now, but because mostly of weak presence and strange things I've noticed about him. No, I don't want to lynch HiroPro for reasons I elaborated on shortly before the deadline. I do agree with you about the weak presence, though. Please write up a case as soon as you can this cycle as for obvious reasons it will affect my read on you.
On September 21 2012 21:55 marvellosity wrote:I haven't got more to say on Ange right now, so I'd like to talk about HiroPro a bit. Earlier I've been leaning town because I was impressed with his diligence and his arguments based on going back and finding meta from previous games, which seemed 'townie for effort'. I'm pretty much reversing that read now. Actually Hiro as town is more categorised by laziness. His last scum game was a while ago (magic mini normal), but looking through his filter there I found this: + Show Spoiler +On May 27 2012 07:00 HiroPro wrote:Katina: Katina has hardly been posting in this game and when she does, she's maintained a singular focus on N_T and Matt. Show nested quote +On May 22 2012 07:25 Katina wrote:On May 22 2012 05:52 froggynoddy wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On May 22 2012 05:29 Tunkeg wrote:
Reads d1 of Day1
Acrofalis/Marvellosity:
Leaning town based on Acrofalis aggression while he was in game. He tried to get this game going, and tried to apply some pressure.
EchelonTee:
Leaning town. He went into a fight with Acrofalis from the get go, and haven't been afraid to stick his head out.
Zealos
Get some scumvibes off him. He started the game by voting VE as number two, without a good reason. He claims it to be a joke later (which it might be). He then proceeds to vote Acrofales based on ET's case, and because of meta, basicly sheeping ET. The rest of his filter seems very empty, even though he got more post than most in this game. Some townpoints for actually bother to answer questions.
Mattchew
He might be one of those I called out for not posting earlier, that is a scum. I don't know what he is trying to do, but if his postingstyle continues this way he will be disruptive townie at best, and sabotaging scum at worst. Leaning scum for now.
Nova_Terra
Leaning scum. He was active at the start, but unlike Acrofalis his attempts at pushing seems more forced, and with no real weight behind it. His whole postingstyle seems very non-commital and gives me scumvibes.
Also Navillus need to get in the thread and do some more. His vote on WBG is the only thing he have done. And it was done without much reasoning, and in my opinion strange reasoning.
PS: I know you guys don't like list. But I want to do lists so bare with me.
PS 2: This is not an analysis post. It is a read post. When I am ready to put my vote down on someone I will try to make a good case/analysis on them. Exception is if there is a great case on them that I agree with, then I will be open about sheeping it, and probably just add some of my own reasoning to it.
This list... serves no purpose other than making you look active. Town reads are worse than useless day 1 as 1. they are even weaker than day 1 scumreads and 2. points to scum who to kill to cause confusion. EDIT: There was more but WBG and Navillus covered it whilst I was writing + Show Spoiler +On May 22 2012 05:37 Navillus wrote:
Okaaay so my WBG vote was a joke, I do not actually think it's a good idea to lynch one of our 2 vets on that basis alone and I am not really of the opinion that advice is an automatic scum-tell, it'd be nice to have a little benefit of the doubt on me not being an idiot.
Next ##Unvote
##Vote: Mattchew
As far as I can tell he's just posting with flavor text from mtg cards, if that continues I don't really care if he's scum or town it makes him impossible to read, doesn't let him contribute, and makes for a really shitty atmosphere. Mattchew stop it.
On N_T yes VE and WBG I'd say he's using pretty bad method of scumhunting/analysis and his vote is for a dumb reason, but that doesn't make him scum and aside from clear-cut examples of someone being useless or disruptive (such as restricting their posts to text from a card game) it's a bad idea to lynch someone for bad play, in my experience it's rarely a scumtell and depending on how they're playing badly it can be more of a town tell.
Tunkeg you asked a bunch of questions earlier, most of them were ignored, was there any point to them? Why don't you care that people didn't answer you/why aren't you following up? Also why post that list, if you have scum reads why aren't you just pressuring them instead of telling them, and how does telling everyone your town-reads do anything but let scum know who you think is townie and so light them up as targets?
Holy spam batman! NT scum or town please stop with multiple one or two line posts in a row, it's distracting and makes the thread harder to read through, consolidate. How is voting for Mattchew due to his posting style (which you consider to be *Bad*) different to voting N_T based on bad play? I don't necessarily disagree with you I just think you're being a little inconsistent. Shoot I forgot to unvote as promised: ##Unvote
##Vote KatinaInactive players kill town. Katina, my vote stays on you until you make an appearance. I made an apperance earlier today. Do you not read over the thread my dear? On May 22 2012 03:27 Nova_Terra wrote:On May 22 2012 02:58 VisceraEyes wrote:On May 21 2012 21:17 Nova_Terra wrote:
Hey VE since you seem to want to ignore my challenge who do you wanna kill Hey Nova, since you seem to want to ignore my question to you (something that's actually USEFUL to this game, unlike your "challenge"), how about you actually answer it instead of trying to distract town with meaningless drivel? I'll even repost it for your convenience. On May 21 2012 08:56 VisceraEyes wrote:On May 21 2012 05:59 Nova_Terra wrote:On May 21 2012 05:27 wherebugsgo wrote:
Whether or not advice is good has nothing to do with the alignment of a player, just the same as making a plan, regardless of how good it is, is generally not indicative of alignment.
If the advice makes sense, follow it. If not, don't. The question of "is this guy scum" has nothing to do with that. I never said that it has anything to do with indicacating the alignment of the player,i said that general advice seems to be contributing but isnt really. and that its just as likely mister helpful is scum, etc. Your style has so far been laced with an air of giving advice to the other players - in what way is Bugs' post giving advice any different from, say, you warning that "players trying to give advice could be scum"? ooh i forgot about that Its different because its not all i've done and because i know im town and its not really different itself, but i was aware of the hypocrisy before i made teh post I would to bring attention to this lovely post. N_T might be the BM version 2! I say this because of his spam, oneliners, and the fact he seems to be refreshing the thread every 5 minutes. When BM is mafia he always over emphasizes that he is confirmed town. Such things are silly to say and provide no help to the town I will be setting my vote. ##Vote Nove_TerraBased on his fliter, he seems to more interesting in proving his innocence then trying to find the Mafia. Show nested quote +
Look at this link where N_T was mafia. Notice that he spams here.... and what is he doing this game?
...
...
Spam!
JubJub 2: Show nested quote +On March 23 2012 14:04 Katina wrote:DoctorHelvetica is mafia This is because throughout the game he has been inconsistent in his posting.He doesn't seem to have a focus at all. DrH has done a massive amount of finger pointing. His posts consist of spamming and calling people retards. DrH is inconsistent and pointing fingers a lot. Take a look at this post: On March 12 2012 07:09 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
Caller is trolling, mafia shouldn't be that scared of me to push me day 1 for no reason because I often back off my correct reads if I get distracted.
It's up to an individuals discretion whether or not they share who they are PMing with, policy lynching someone for not doing it is stupid. Also, town circles could be set up so that somebody can claim DT to someone they confirm and then use that person to broadcast their reads, or a tracker/watcher/etc. That can be useful. In that case the last thing you want is everyone saying who they are with.
Jackal58 is being a bit silly with what Wiggles and people like that are saying. His point is that scum know who town is and because of that they can cut down any circles that arise that they aren't directly involved in themselves. Especially it would be dangerous for someone to say "i'm pming with A B C and D" and then later come out and say "I'm PMing the DT and..." when say, B and C are dead or something. It's up to an individual to share their PM targets or not.
Gumshoe is posting a lot and very focused on town circles and such. For that reason, I'm voting for him. He has 2 pages of filter all completely disconnected from finding scum. The way you're probing Caller looks as though it would be helpful, but doesn't actually lead to anything. It's wishy washy, I feel like it's the kind of thing that scum would feel they can't ignore but don't want to commit to Caller if he's town. That'll satisfy me for now, it's pretty likely I'll come up with something better or that Gumshoe will just make himself look worse The last paragraph is important here. He says gumshow is suspicious and is going to vote for him. Yet 8 hours later he makes this post: On March 12 2012 15:12 DoctorHelvetica wrote:On March 12 2012 15:03 Bill Murray wrote:
@doctorh, what are the reasons you like from curu? I'm catching up, and I value your opinion. That is also why I am sort of sheeping you. You saw what I saw out of gumshoe, switched when that wagon wasn't going anywhere for some reason, and probably found a good one here.
I remember Caller's posting earlier on in the day being suspect. He came in like a bull, china flying everywhere, and the broken glass and debris are making it easy to see a case on him being valid.
tl;dr: catching up, asking questions, can see caller being scum Caller came in trolling then made his case when there was light pressure and it seems forced. I'm not totally sold on him at the moment because I feel like this is pretty much in line with the way he always acts but Curu does make a better case. I still think Caller is a better lynch than Jackal but I'm not confident enough to push it. Caller's case is based on, from what I can tell, misunderstanding of jackals post and then overstating the significance of it. Curu has a meta read that is at least accurate. Jaybrundage is one of those players who seems to me to be participating only in the surface discussion and making little effort to figure out what peoples motives are or hunt scum. His last few posts speak for themselves really. His confidence is a little bit out of place for a newer scum player though. I'm torn between Caller and jaybrundage right now. I'd be on prplhz in an instant if his logic wasn't equally terrible last time I played with him. I'm waiting for Pandain to come into play, he's awful so I'll know right away if he's scum or not. And now his focused has shifted to Caller and jaybrundage. And this is where his focused stayed for all of another 12 hours until he posts this: On March 13 2012 05:28 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
How does Caller thinking a scum would defend another scum make him scum? Maybe I'm not following your logic.
Jackal, roleclaiming was unnecessary. If there is no claim to the contrary I'll believe you. Dreamflower is a pretty specific role and I doubt there is more than one in this game as opposed to something like medic or veteran.
We need to reconsider the business surrounding prplhz. His play is poor but it's not particularly scummy and the attempt to pin someone as scum for making a similar case around the same timeframe is ridiculous and comes off to me as a hamfisted attempt by scum to start a bandwagon. The fact that it took makes me even more sure it's scum originated or backed.
Wiggles is the first to jump on it, doing nothing in the game besides talk about mechanics/town strategy (at great length) until this point I'm surprised his first attempt at hunting scum is so forced and illogical. The fact that prplhz made a case near the same time period is inconclusive, might perhaps implicate that he is town talking to curu or caller in PM but hardly mafiaesque.
Jitsu is the only one who voted for him and he's already been in the hotseat. This is the most alarming event in this thread to me. The Caller vs VE deal is really coming off to me like an ensuing tragedy of townie vs townie. And now he's dealing with Jackal and Wiggles and Jitsu. What is interesting is how quickly DrH jumps from one case to the next. He accuses and votes for gumshoe, yet never brings up the case again except where he says he's changing his vote. He moves his vote to Caller at one point before finalizing on Jitsu. Part of the problem here is that he never follows up on his reads. From here on out all he has are one liners and random posts, there is nothing more about his reads until he makes the following post: On March 14 2012 09:03 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
Node is suspicious. I'm leaning toward Node or Caller on day 2. I know Caller is a ballsy player but he comes off as way too phony. He makes a fake case on me then ditches it for a bad case on Jackal then goes back to attacking me? He's just playing disruptively.
Node's vote switch to Sheth is a joke. Not only was Jackal not gonna get lynched but I refuse to believe by the way he was posting that he put so little thought into the game as to waste a vote on somebody completely random (the only one that actually had excusable inactivity) like Sheth. This post came near the end of night 1 as well. Suddenly there is no more attention on Jitsu. He moves away from it just like he did with gumshoe. He makes the occasional one liner about him being mafia, but never pushes his case ever again. And on Day 2 he makes this post On March 15 2012 08:58 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
Kurumi is indefenseable at this point.
jaybrundage, you play like scummy shit all game then start demanding role claims from everyone. Stop doing that. If you're town, it's stupid and unhelpful.
With Kurumi gone, we need to shoot prplhz tonight or lynch him tomorrow. He's been on Jackal and didn't react to Jackal's claim but despite this obvious fakery from Kurumi, he chooses to ignore it then go after me. He is aggressive then immediately backs off and acts like he was just messin around. What a joke.
Curu straight up lies about things I say, he at least has the good sense to vote for Kurumi.
I'm not pushing Caller anymore, his claim seems to be legit and like I said I lost some confidence in him as the day went on and moved toward Jitsu (who is also misrepresenting me). It isn't scummy for a player to change their mind and it isn't my priority to tell the town about every change of thought or thing I think, otherwise I'd end up spamming the thread. If you're that interested in my thought process, just PM me, I'm not going to clutter the thread with that shit.
kurumi, prplhz, curu that's my best guess. Abenson, rgTheSchworz, Sentinel, probably scum or traitor between those 3. Dunno about Palmar. His play seems pro-town but I know he's good. If he's town this game is probably in the bag, if it's scum it's over since it seems a town circle has been built around him.
Nobody has PM'd me in this game yet, which surprises me a little. and Jitsu isn't even on his mafia list. Furthermore he only lists Curu as scum because Curu was being a JubJub. DrH should know better than most that idiocy =/= Mafia. Yet he puts Curu on his mafia list, but removes him later on the account that Curu started making more sense. DrH is known to second guess himself more than anyone else. He even admits to it. The problem is is that he is not second guessing himself. He makes a case against someone, then immediately drops it and never returns to it. He simply has no focus. His agenda is in correspondence with a mafia. He accuses lots of people to insinuate the doubt. He tries to make everyone look bad so nobody is in the clear. Then when a mafia gets lynched he can immediately defend himself by saying he was onto them. Someone said that DrH pushed for the Kurumi lynch so therefore he is in the clear. However if you observe the day 2 votes you will notice that it's very likely the mafia team was on Kurumi the whole time. Bill Murray has gotten a town check, the only remaining players not on Kurumi are myself and EchelonTee. So he is not immediately in the clear because of the Kurumi lynch. In fact the majority of his posts about Kurumi entail things like this post: On March 16 2012 04:48 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
This thread is in fucking chaos and if this keeps up we will continue having no lynches for the rest of the game. Is everyone this terrible? I can't believe Kurumi is actually going to get away with straight up faking his role and doing nothing but trolling and trying to find the traitor all game.
I also can't believe that Curu making shit up to try to get Jackal killed and him and his scumbuddy prplhz trying to get a town suicide vig to shoot at night (benefits scum) ONLY seems odd to me. This is far and away the most embarrassing town performance I've ever seen.
You're an idiot if you don't vote for Kurumi. Caller is saying to vote for me because I flip flop and "only talk about the set-up". That's a bald faced lie, the majority of my posts are about scum or pressure and I'm WELL KNOWN to flip-flop and second guess myself constantly as town such as in AC where I changed my vote like ten times in the first day. In fact, if anything, the fact that I haven't changed my vote a million times makes me look bad. I don't even know what Katina is doing but she has no sense of meta and seems to be completely missing the obvious.
Caller is the dayvig, he confirmed it as far as I can tell so unless he somehow faked shooting Node, why would anyone vote for him? Scum have their powers in that KP cost thing it says so in the setup ...
So what Kurumi did is too scummy to be scummy? Congratulations, you've failed the most basic fucking trap of bad townie logic now never sign up for another game again you retarded jubjubs His posts about Kurumi are much like this one: "vote Kurumi or else you retard!" His only reason for voting Kurumi is that Kurumi scum slipped. No analysis or anything. Vote Kurumi or you're retarded. If this is what scumhunting is than Palmar should be the reigning champion. Even more proof of his inconsistency can be found if you click his filter and search for my name. Multiple times he lists me as mafia yet he has never hard pushed for me or giving reasons why I need to be lynched. In one post he says, "katina has called me out for stupid reasons but I'm not saying she looks like shit for "tunneling a townie" because my alignment isn't confirmed." This is interesting because when I first accused him he agreed with the arguments that I was making. He even acknowledged that he was jumping all over the place on his reads. As I said before, he's not second guessing himself. He is mafia and is casting doubt upon all the players. He has done a fabulous job of accusing everyone so when someone flips mafia he can say that he was suspicious of said person. Even if he was on Caller and Kurumi, he hasn't done anything recently besides cast more doubt on the remaining players. He has pushed for Jay to get lynched, but the majority of his accusations can be summarized with "Jay is retarded, let's kill him". This leads into the obvious fact that DrH is acting nothing like he does when he is town. This is evident from his past games. Look at one of his posts from Storm Mafia: On February 23 2012 09:08 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
I didn't sheep anybody. I made my case on BC well before I even read syllogisms original post. You're connecting points I'm making in specific reference to other peoples posts to unrelated ideas. I was trying to illustrate that the wagon forming quickly doesn't mean much. The scum don't need to defend redFF if they can get somebody else lynched.
I don't think my posts are wishy washy. I wasn't yelling in the thread for one person to get lynched over any other, but that can't really be defined as wishy washiness. I wasn't planning on rebutting the case on redFF because I never ever thought it needed to be rebutted. I voted for redFF in the end. I moved my vote to BC to put pressure on him and make sure he stays active in the thread, his responses satisfied me enough that I wanted to stick with my original convictions and give BC Day 2 to prove himself. Needless to say I'll be keeping a close eye on him.
Calling BC the alternative lynch is a non-point since his flip, or lack thereof, was inconclusive. You don't know whether or not he is scum, unless you are scum, so implying that it is a defensive alternative makes no sense as town especially considering redFF is the person I voted for.
I never called RedFF not scum. I never called him 100% scum. I said very clearly RedFF is likely scum or terrible town but his claim is poorly done and seems defensive. I was more than okay with the RedFF lynch, which seemed so likely to go through at the time I switched to BC to pressure another player I was suspicious of. Seeing as RedFF has been AWOL during this entire period, I feel I made the right choice. If I didn't think RedFF was very suspect, I would have been far more vocal in trying to get people to join a BC bandwagon but you will notice I did no such thing as far as I can recall anyway. That's as much as I'll say in the interest of defending myself.
This redFF "flip", or whatever it is, is inconclusive and I don't feel it necessary to comment on it further. I'll read filters when I have the time. Notice how he is very direct in explaining his actions about where his vote and suspicion lies. There isn't a single post he's made in this game that can be mirrored with a typical post from that game. He hasn't done any explaining this game. He only focuses on the present and fails to address his past behavior. And the few times people have brought up this fact his response has been "well I always second guess myself trolol" Put simply, he is not taking responsibility for his actions. It's also interesting to note how calm and collected he has been in the past when he is town. The above post is typical in showing is behavior when analyzing and addressing issues. Of course we know him to have a temper from time to time, as we all do whenever we are in a game with VE. However this game he has done nothing but call people retarded over and over again. This attitude is a bit reminiscent of wherebugsgo when he is mafia. I can understand being frustrated with the game (considering I have Jay riding my ass constantly), but the level of his insults coming from DrH is not only out of character, but completely unnatural. I would also like to mention that this game DrH has an absurd amount of one liners and small posts. A quick glance through Storm Mafia and Arkham City show that his posting length this game is also not in sync with his normal town play. When DrH is town, he is not afraid to write paragraphs upon paragraphs detailing his thoughts. This game we have one liners about how small our IQ is.
SummaryDrH has been playing completely out of character from his typical town play. He hasn't been focused, anormous finger pointing, one liners and insults. His posts have been inconsistent and bringing confusion into the thread. He has not been responsible this game and he needs to be held accountable for it. DrH is mafia
##Vote DoctorHelvetica In this game, when going after N_T Katina displays a very odd use of meta - very different from the way she used in the past (LII: Jubjub Mafia where Katina fingers DocH based on meta with a clear difference between his town and mafia styles (when DocH is town his posting is much longer and doesn't attack other people)). Compare that to this game, where Katina uses meta against Nova_Terra (Nova_Terra is scum because he spams as mafia. Yet he does this both as town and mafia...) That's not a logical argument at all. Also everyone should look at the cases that Katina makes in that game and compare that to this game; there's a clear level of depth that's missing from anything she has posted here. This Game: Show nested quote +On May 27 2012 02:34 Katina wrote:
Okay first of all, I'm really tired of people (WBG) assuming I'm mafia because of my Meta I have said myself I have been busy. Stuff kept coming up this week, that's what happens when you have a "Life". I am sorry I couldn't be more active.
Secondly the two people I have been gunning for (N_T and Mattchew) are doing nothing but constantly bashing me. N_T is so focused on getting me lynched he is completely distracting himself from the forum. Mattchew is butt hurt because I got him to crack and stop using his quotes.
Third, I realize that Zealos claimed. I was fine lynching him as I stated in one of my posts before that. So me voting for someone I thought was scummy is considered Mafia? I love the logic behind that.
I apologize for not spewing out random votes and cluttering up the thread like a lot of you do. Everyone is so focused on me for stupid reasons when there are so many scummier people. Liar Game: Show nested quote +On May 16 2012 07:26 Katina wrote:On May 16 2012 03:04 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:On May 16 2012 00:10 Katina wrote:On May 15 2012 07:35 slOosh wrote:
Katina are you calling Meapak scum? Or misguided? How about prplhz? Not really. His reasons for thinking Palmar is innocent are silly. I don't actually think he's mafia but then again I have no idea who could be on Palmar's team other than Wiggles. Katina I'm sick of you half assing this game. Put in some goddamn effort and give us some ACTUAL reasons. I don't know, maybe write an analysis, maybe have more of a thread presence, maybe PM people and at least pretend like you're interested. After the cephiro flip I blew up all my reads and started over again and let me say this katina, it's foolishness's insistence that you're town which is preventing me right now from putting you in the majority and lynching you this cycle. Play the game. I have been sir. I do not mean to overstep your pride here. Let me say again that your reasons for thinking Palmar is innocent are silly. I don't say this in an accusatory way; it's the truth. I don't think you are mafia, but as I said I don't know who the last member on Palmar's team is (I think Wiggles is one of them). You said that Palmar is innocent because he has had the same reads as you from the start. That does not indicate anything about alignment. Palmar has wanted to kill sandroba and Cephiro (these are the two you listed). But everyone wants to kill those two. Also it makes the most sense that sandroba is the last member of BC's team. So Palmar isn't bussing one of his teammates. The most incriminating piece of evidence is that Palmar was virtually derping when syllogism was alive. That's cause syllogism was hard core pushing his innocence especially in PMs. I know Foolishness and wherebugsgo were both suspicious of Palmar but syllogism made it hard for them to push that read. That and there were more important targets at the time. If you look through Palmar's post history you will see he was most active day 1 and then in the previous days since syllogism's death. Palmar was using syllogism as an excuse to not do anything. With syllogism constantly pushing his innocence he did not have to try at all, either in the thread or PM. He has only stepped up his posting since syllogism died, whether he's stepped up in PM land or not I don't know. Even if you want to start pointing guns at me, you still need to explain why Palmar deserves a free pass. Cause this isn't about me, it's about Palmar. And like I said at least one person out of you, me, and Palmar has to be mafia. Unless you're going to claim mafia I'm not stopping until Palmar is dead. When attacked in previous games (for example Liar Game) Katina typically brings forth new thoughts and reads (She's very eager to elaborate her reads on Palmar and address the issues that other people bring up). In this game though, Katina just says that she was busy and repeats the same arguments that she's been giving the entire game without analyzing anything new. With such a big difference between her town play and her play this game and a general lack of good posting and reads, I think Katina is almost definitely scum. A fairly long well thought through post, making valid points based on meta across several games and applying them to the current game. Except it's scum Hiro making this post. Looking through his town games, they are more categorised by shorter posts, where ultimately Hiro is more involved in what's going on than he is here. I believe HiroPro is scum
Seriously, that's your filter. If you want to discuss what you said about HiroPro, fine. But what you said was "leaning town" --> "dont' want to lynch him, but please write up a case because I agree on the weak presence" (to Palmar) --> "I believe HiroPro is scum"
I will respond to the actual last post on HiroPro, I read it but I'll work through my own thoughts now. Just...look at that progression. You haven't been hammering on HiroPro. Your read went from townie to townie but I agree on weak presence to scum. And your entire Hiro argument SEEMS to be "I thought hiro was town because he was active, now I think he's lazy town and must be scum because he's active." Can you give more robust thoughts on Hiro, because I'll discuss what you've said but it ain't much.
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On September 22 2012 00:58 Hapahauli wrote:
1) It doesn't make sense that you think both HiroPro and Marv are scum. Marv could be bussing Hiro, but it's very unlikely they're both scum given Marv's opinions on Hiro over N1 and early D2. He specifically attacks Palmar for not providing reasoning on Hiro, then very obviously backtracked and now is reasonably convinced that Hiro is scum. Maybe one of them is scum, this is possible. But it's really unlikely that both are given Marv's actions.
I don't like marv/hiro scum either, but check marv's posts above. The change in stance is obvious, but the reasoning for the change is weak. I thought x meant he was town, now here's this one post and I think x means Hiro is scum.
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On September 22 2012 01:00 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On September 22 2012 00:54 austinmcc wrote:However, I'll go look at hiropro. But...you haven't been as vocal on him as you think? Heres you on Hiro the last 20 hours or so... On September 21 2012 05:24 marvellosity wrote:
Hiro I'm leaning town on now. In his massive post whenever it was he brought up a load of well thought out points, including analysis and quotes from other games, such as prplhz sheeping Palmar, and my tendency to believe the scummy things I do point towards me being town. I also liked his assessment on how you were appearing apologetic. Basically I'm leaning town on him because many of his thoughts have been unique this game and I like the way he thinks and agree with it much of the time. The thing that stops me giving a firm read of town is that he's still more... detached from the thread than he might be.
On September 21 2012 05:38 marvellosity wrote:
he didn't 'explain' anything on his 2nd highest scumread, HiroPro. On September 21 2012 06:43 marvellosity wrote:On September 21 2012 06:42 Palmar wrote:
HiroPro.
Would you agree on lynching him?
I don't have the time to write up a case now, but because mostly of weak presence and strange things I've noticed about him. No, I don't want to lynch HiroPro for reasons I elaborated on shortly before the deadline. I do agree with you about the weak presence, though. Please write up a case as soon as you can this cycle as for obvious reasons it will affect my read on you. On September 21 2012 21:55 marvellosity wrote:I haven't got more to say on Ange right now, so I'd like to talk about HiroPro a bit. Earlier I've been leaning town because I was impressed with his diligence and his arguments based on going back and finding meta from previous games, which seemed 'townie for effort'. I'm pretty much reversing that read now. Actually Hiro as town is more categorised by laziness. His last scum game was a while ago (magic mini normal), but looking through his filter there I found this: + Show Spoiler +On May 27 2012 07:00 HiroPro wrote:Katina: Katina has hardly been posting in this game and when she does, she's maintained a singular focus on N_T and Matt. Show nested quote +On May 22 2012 07:25 Katina wrote:On May 22 2012 05:52 froggynoddy wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On May 22 2012 05:29 Tunkeg wrote:
Reads d1 of Day1
Acrofalis/Marvellosity:
Leaning town based on Acrofalis aggression while he was in game. He tried to get this game going, and tried to apply some pressure.
EchelonTee:
Leaning town. He went into a fight with Acrofalis from the get go, and haven't been afraid to stick his head out.
Zealos
Get some scumvibes off him. He started the game by voting VE as number two, without a good reason. He claims it to be a joke later (which it might be). He then proceeds to vote Acrofales based on ET's case, and because of meta, basicly sheeping ET. The rest of his filter seems very empty, even though he got more post than most in this game. Some townpoints for actually bother to answer questions.
Mattchew
He might be one of those I called out for not posting earlier, that is a scum. I don't know what he is trying to do, but if his postingstyle continues this way he will be disruptive townie at best, and sabotaging scum at worst. Leaning scum for now.
Nova_Terra
Leaning scum. He was active at the start, but unlike Acrofalis his attempts at pushing seems more forced, and with no real weight behind it. His whole postingstyle seems very non-commital and gives me scumvibes.
Also Navillus need to get in the thread and do some more. His vote on WBG is the only thing he have done. And it was done without much reasoning, and in my opinion strange reasoning.
PS: I know you guys don't like list. But I want to do lists so bare with me.
PS 2: This is not an analysis post. It is a read post. When I am ready to put my vote down on someone I will try to make a good case/analysis on them. Exception is if there is a great case on them that I agree with, then I will be open about sheeping it, and probably just add some of my own reasoning to it.
This list... serves no purpose other than making you look active. Town reads are worse than useless day 1 as 1. they are even weaker than day 1 scumreads and 2. points to scum who to kill to cause confusion. EDIT: There was more but WBG and Navillus covered it whilst I was writing + Show Spoiler +On May 22 2012 05:37 Navillus wrote:
Okaaay so my WBG vote was a joke, I do not actually think it's a good idea to lynch one of our 2 vets on that basis alone and I am not really of the opinion that advice is an automatic scum-tell, it'd be nice to have a little benefit of the doubt on me not being an idiot.
Next ##Unvote
##Vote: Mattchew
As far as I can tell he's just posting with flavor text from mtg cards, if that continues I don't really care if he's scum or town it makes him impossible to read, doesn't let him contribute, and makes for a really shitty atmosphere. Mattchew stop it.
On N_T yes VE and WBG I'd say he's using pretty bad method of scumhunting/analysis and his vote is for a dumb reason, but that doesn't make him scum and aside from clear-cut examples of someone being useless or disruptive (such as restricting their posts to text from a card game) it's a bad idea to lynch someone for bad play, in my experience it's rarely a scumtell and depending on how they're playing badly it can be more of a town tell.
Tunkeg you asked a bunch of questions earlier, most of them were ignored, was there any point to them? Why don't you care that people didn't answer you/why aren't you following up? Also why post that list, if you have scum reads why aren't you just pressuring them instead of telling them, and how does telling everyone your town-reads do anything but let scum know who you think is townie and so light them up as targets?
Holy spam batman! NT scum or town please stop with multiple one or two line posts in a row, it's distracting and makes the thread harder to read through, consolidate. How is voting for Mattchew due to his posting style (which you consider to be *Bad*) different to voting N_T based on bad play? I don't necessarily disagree with you I just think you're being a little inconsistent. Shoot I forgot to unvote as promised: ##Unvote
##Vote KatinaInactive players kill town. Katina, my vote stays on you until you make an appearance. I made an apperance earlier today. Do you not read over the thread my dear? On May 22 2012 03:27 Nova_Terra wrote:On May 22 2012 02:58 VisceraEyes wrote:On May 21 2012 21:17 Nova_Terra wrote:
Hey VE since you seem to want to ignore my challenge who do you wanna kill Hey Nova, since you seem to want to ignore my question to you (something that's actually USEFUL to this game, unlike your "challenge"), how about you actually answer it instead of trying to distract town with meaningless drivel? I'll even repost it for your convenience. On May 21 2012 08:56 VisceraEyes wrote:On May 21 2012 05:59 Nova_Terra wrote:On May 21 2012 05:27 wherebugsgo wrote:
Whether or not advice is good has nothing to do with the alignment of a player, just the same as making a plan, regardless of how good it is, is generally not indicative of alignment.
If the advice makes sense, follow it. If not, don't. The question of "is this guy scum" has nothing to do with that. I never said that it has anything to do with indicacating the alignment of the player,i said that general advice seems to be contributing but isnt really. and that its just as likely mister helpful is scum, etc. Your style has so far been laced with an air of giving advice to the other players - in what way is Bugs' post giving advice any different from, say, you warning that "players trying to give advice could be scum"? ooh i forgot about that Its different because its not all i've done and because i know im town and its not really different itself, but i was aware of the hypocrisy before i made teh post I would to bring attention to this lovely post. N_T might be the BM version 2! I say this because of his spam, oneliners, and the fact he seems to be refreshing the thread every 5 minutes. When BM is mafia he always over emphasizes that he is confirmed town. Such things are silly to say and provide no help to the town I will be setting my vote. ##Vote Nove_TerraBased on his fliter, he seems to more interesting in proving his innocence then trying to find the Mafia. Show nested quote +
Look at this link where N_T was mafia. Notice that he spams here.... and what is he doing this game?
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Spam!
JubJub 2: Show nested quote +On March 23 2012 14:04 Katina wrote:DoctorHelvetica is mafia This is because throughout the game he has been inconsistent in his posting.He doesn't seem to have a focus at all. DrH has done a massive amount of finger pointing. His posts consist of spamming and calling people retards. DrH is inconsistent and pointing fingers a lot. Take a look at this post: On March 12 2012 07:09 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
Caller is trolling, mafia shouldn't be that scared of me to push me day 1 for no reason because I often back off my correct reads if I get distracted.
It's up to an individuals discretion whether or not they share who they are PMing with, policy lynching someone for not doing it is stupid. Also, town circles could be set up so that somebody can claim DT to someone they confirm and then use that person to broadcast their reads, or a tracker/watcher/etc. That can be useful. In that case the last thing you want is everyone saying who they are with.
Jackal58 is being a bit silly with what Wiggles and people like that are saying. His point is that scum know who town is and because of that they can cut down any circles that arise that they aren't directly involved in themselves. Especially it would be dangerous for someone to say "i'm pming with A B C and D" and then later come out and say "I'm PMing the DT and..." when say, B and C are dead or something. It's up to an individual to share their PM targets or not.
Gumshoe is posting a lot and very focused on town circles and such. For that reason, I'm voting for him. He has 2 pages of filter all completely disconnected from finding scum. The way you're probing Caller looks as though it would be helpful, but doesn't actually lead to anything. It's wishy washy, I feel like it's the kind of thing that scum would feel they can't ignore but don't want to commit to Caller if he's town. That'll satisfy me for now, it's pretty likely I'll come up with something better or that Gumshoe will just make himself look worse The last paragraph is important here. He says gumshow is suspicious and is going to vote for him. Yet 8 hours later he makes this post: On March 12 2012 15:12 DoctorHelvetica wrote:On March 12 2012 15:03 Bill Murray wrote:
@doctorh, what are the reasons you like from curu? I'm catching up, and I value your opinion. That is also why I am sort of sheeping you. You saw what I saw out of gumshoe, switched when that wagon wasn't going anywhere for some reason, and probably found a good one here.
I remember Caller's posting earlier on in the day being suspect. He came in like a bull, china flying everywhere, and the broken glass and debris are making it easy to see a case on him being valid.
tl;dr: catching up, asking questions, can see caller being scum Caller came in trolling then made his case when there was light pressure and it seems forced. I'm not totally sold on him at the moment because I feel like this is pretty much in line with the way he always acts but Curu does make a better case. I still think Caller is a better lynch than Jackal but I'm not confident enough to push it. Caller's case is based on, from what I can tell, misunderstanding of jackals post and then overstating the significance of it. Curu has a meta read that is at least accurate. Jaybrundage is one of those players who seems to me to be participating only in the surface discussion and making little effort to figure out what peoples motives are or hunt scum. His last few posts speak for themselves really. His confidence is a little bit out of place for a newer scum player though. I'm torn between Caller and jaybrundage right now. I'd be on prplhz in an instant if his logic wasn't equally terrible last time I played with him. I'm waiting for Pandain to come into play, he's awful so I'll know right away if he's scum or not. And now his focused has shifted to Caller and jaybrundage. And this is where his focused stayed for all of another 12 hours until he posts this: On March 13 2012 05:28 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
How does Caller thinking a scum would defend another scum make him scum? Maybe I'm not following your logic.
Jackal, roleclaiming was unnecessary. If there is no claim to the contrary I'll believe you. Dreamflower is a pretty specific role and I doubt there is more than one in this game as opposed to something like medic or veteran.
We need to reconsider the business surrounding prplhz. His play is poor but it's not particularly scummy and the attempt to pin someone as scum for making a similar case around the same timeframe is ridiculous and comes off to me as a hamfisted attempt by scum to start a bandwagon. The fact that it took makes me even more sure it's scum originated or backed.
Wiggles is the first to jump on it, doing nothing in the game besides talk about mechanics/town strategy (at great length) until this point I'm surprised his first attempt at hunting scum is so forced and illogical. The fact that prplhz made a case near the same time period is inconclusive, might perhaps implicate that he is town talking to curu or caller in PM but hardly mafiaesque.
Jitsu is the only one who voted for him and he's already been in the hotseat. This is the most alarming event in this thread to me. The Caller vs VE deal is really coming off to me like an ensuing tragedy of townie vs townie. And now he's dealing with Jackal and Wiggles and Jitsu. What is interesting is how quickly DrH jumps from one case to the next. He accuses and votes for gumshoe, yet never brings up the case again except where he says he's changing his vote. He moves his vote to Caller at one point before finalizing on Jitsu. Part of the problem here is that he never follows up on his reads. From here on out all he has are one liners and random posts, there is nothing more about his reads until he makes the following post: On March 14 2012 09:03 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
Node is suspicious. I'm leaning toward Node or Caller on day 2. I know Caller is a ballsy player but he comes off as way too phony. He makes a fake case on me then ditches it for a bad case on Jackal then goes back to attacking me? He's just playing disruptively.
Node's vote switch to Sheth is a joke. Not only was Jackal not gonna get lynched but I refuse to believe by the way he was posting that he put so little thought into the game as to waste a vote on somebody completely random (the only one that actually had excusable inactivity) like Sheth. This post came near the end of night 1 as well. Suddenly there is no more attention on Jitsu. He moves away from it just like he did with gumshoe. He makes the occasional one liner about him being mafia, but never pushes his case ever again. And on Day 2 he makes this post On March 15 2012 08:58 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
Kurumi is indefenseable at this point.
jaybrundage, you play like scummy shit all game then start demanding role claims from everyone. Stop doing that. If you're town, it's stupid and unhelpful.
With Kurumi gone, we need to shoot prplhz tonight or lynch him tomorrow. He's been on Jackal and didn't react to Jackal's claim but despite this obvious fakery from Kurumi, he chooses to ignore it then go after me. He is aggressive then immediately backs off and acts like he was just messin around. What a joke.
Curu straight up lies about things I say, he at least has the good sense to vote for Kurumi.
I'm not pushing Caller anymore, his claim seems to be legit and like I said I lost some confidence in him as the day went on and moved toward Jitsu (who is also misrepresenting me). It isn't scummy for a player to change their mind and it isn't my priority to tell the town about every change of thought or thing I think, otherwise I'd end up spamming the thread. If you're that interested in my thought process, just PM me, I'm not going to clutter the thread with that shit.
kurumi, prplhz, curu that's my best guess. Abenson, rgTheSchworz, Sentinel, probably scum or traitor between those 3. Dunno about Palmar. His play seems pro-town but I know he's good. If he's town this game is probably in the bag, if it's scum it's over since it seems a town circle has been built around him.
Nobody has PM'd me in this game yet, which surprises me a little. and Jitsu isn't even on his mafia list. Furthermore he only lists Curu as scum because Curu was being a JubJub. DrH should know better than most that idiocy =/= Mafia. Yet he puts Curu on his mafia list, but removes him later on the account that Curu started making more sense. DrH is known to second guess himself more than anyone else. He even admits to it. The problem is is that he is not second guessing himself. He makes a case against someone, then immediately drops it and never returns to it. He simply has no focus. His agenda is in correspondence with a mafia. He accuses lots of people to insinuate the doubt. He tries to make everyone look bad so nobody is in the clear. Then when a mafia gets lynched he can immediately defend himself by saying he was onto them. Someone said that DrH pushed for the Kurumi lynch so therefore he is in the clear. However if you observe the day 2 votes you will notice that it's very likely the mafia team was on Kurumi the whole time. Bill Murray has gotten a town check, the only remaining players not on Kurumi are myself and EchelonTee. So he is not immediately in the clear because of the Kurumi lynch. In fact the majority of his posts about Kurumi entail things like this post: On March 16 2012 04:48 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
This thread is in fucking chaos and if this keeps up we will continue having no lynches for the rest of the game. Is everyone this terrible? I can't believe Kurumi is actually going to get away with straight up faking his role and doing nothing but trolling and trying to find the traitor all game.
I also can't believe that Curu making shit up to try to get Jackal killed and him and his scumbuddy prplhz trying to get a town suicide vig to shoot at night (benefits scum) ONLY seems odd to me. This is far and away the most embarrassing town performance I've ever seen.
You're an idiot if you don't vote for Kurumi. Caller is saying to vote for me because I flip flop and "only talk about the set-up". That's a bald faced lie, the majority of my posts are about scum or pressure and I'm WELL KNOWN to flip-flop and second guess myself constantly as town such as in AC where I changed my vote like ten times in the first day. In fact, if anything, the fact that I haven't changed my vote a million times makes me look bad. I don't even know what Katina is doing but she has no sense of meta and seems to be completely missing the obvious.
Caller is the dayvig, he confirmed it as far as I can tell so unless he somehow faked shooting Node, why would anyone vote for him? Scum have their powers in that KP cost thing it says so in the setup ...
So what Kurumi did is too scummy to be scummy? Congratulations, you've failed the most basic fucking trap of bad townie logic now never sign up for another game again you retarded jubjubs His posts about Kurumi are much like this one: "vote Kurumi or else you retard!" His only reason for voting Kurumi is that Kurumi scum slipped. No analysis or anything. Vote Kurumi or you're retarded. If this is what scumhunting is than Palmar should be the reigning champion. Even more proof of his inconsistency can be found if you click his filter and search for my name. Multiple times he lists me as mafia yet he has never hard pushed for me or giving reasons why I need to be lynched. In one post he says, "katina has called me out for stupid reasons but I'm not saying she looks like shit for "tunneling a townie" because my alignment isn't confirmed." This is interesting because when I first accused him he agreed with the arguments that I was making. He even acknowledged that he was jumping all over the place on his reads. As I said before, he's not second guessing himself. He is mafia and is casting doubt upon all the players. He has done a fabulous job of accusing everyone so when someone flips mafia he can say that he was suspicious of said person. Even if he was on Caller and Kurumi, he hasn't done anything recently besides cast more doubt on the remaining players. He has pushed for Jay to get lynched, but the majority of his accusations can be summarized with "Jay is retarded, let's kill him". This leads into the obvious fact that DrH is acting nothing like he does when he is town. This is evident from his past games. Look at one of his posts from Storm Mafia: On February 23 2012 09:08 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
I didn't sheep anybody. I made my case on BC well before I even read syllogisms original post. You're connecting points I'm making in specific reference to other peoples posts to unrelated ideas. I was trying to illustrate that the wagon forming quickly doesn't mean much. The scum don't need to defend redFF if they can get somebody else lynched.
I don't think my posts are wishy washy. I wasn't yelling in the thread for one person to get lynched over any other, but that can't really be defined as wishy washiness. I wasn't planning on rebutting the case on redFF because I never ever thought it needed to be rebutted. I voted for redFF in the end. I moved my vote to BC to put pressure on him and make sure he stays active in the thread, his responses satisfied me enough that I wanted to stick with my original convictions and give BC Day 2 to prove himself. Needless to say I'll be keeping a close eye on him.
Calling BC the alternative lynch is a non-point since his flip, or lack thereof, was inconclusive. You don't know whether or not he is scum, unless you are scum, so implying that it is a defensive alternative makes no sense as town especially considering redFF is the person I voted for.
I never called RedFF not scum. I never called him 100% scum. I said very clearly RedFF is likely scum or terrible town but his claim is poorly done and seems defensive. I was more than okay with the RedFF lynch, which seemed so likely to go through at the time I switched to BC to pressure another player I was suspicious of. Seeing as RedFF has been AWOL during this entire period, I feel I made the right choice. If I didn't think RedFF was very suspect, I would have been far more vocal in trying to get people to join a BC bandwagon but you will notice I did no such thing as far as I can recall anyway. That's as much as I'll say in the interest of defending myself.
This redFF "flip", or whatever it is, is inconclusive and I don't feel it necessary to comment on it further. I'll read filters when I have the time. Notice how he is very direct in explaining his actions about where his vote and suspicion lies. There isn't a single post he's made in this game that can be mirrored with a typical post from that game. He hasn't done any explaining this game. He only focuses on the present and fails to address his past behavior. And the few times people have brought up this fact his response has been "well I always second guess myself trolol" Put simply, he is not taking responsibility for his actions. It's also interesting to note how calm and collected he has been in the past when he is town. The above post is typical in showing is behavior when analyzing and addressing issues. Of course we know him to have a temper from time to time, as we all do whenever we are in a game with VE. However this game he has done nothing but call people retarded over and over again. This attitude is a bit reminiscent of wherebugsgo when he is mafia. I can understand being frustrated with the game (considering I have Jay riding my ass constantly), but the level of his insults coming from DrH is not only out of character, but completely unnatural. I would also like to mention that this game DrH has an absurd amount of one liners and small posts. A quick glance through Storm Mafia and Arkham City show that his posting length this game is also not in sync with his normal town play. When DrH is town, he is not afraid to write paragraphs upon paragraphs detailing his thoughts. This game we have one liners about how small our IQ is.
SummaryDrH has been playing completely out of character from his typical town play. He hasn't been focused, anormous finger pointing, one liners and insults. His posts have been inconsistent and bringing confusion into the thread. He has not been responsible this game and he needs to be held accountable for it. DrH is mafia
##Vote DoctorHelvetica In this game, when going after N_T Katina displays a very odd use of meta - very different from the way she used in the past (LII: Jubjub Mafia where Katina fingers DocH based on meta with a clear difference between his town and mafia styles (when DocH is town his posting is much longer and doesn't attack other people)). Compare that to this game, where Katina uses meta against Nova_Terra (Nova_Terra is scum because he spams as mafia. Yet he does this both as town and mafia...) That's not a logical argument at all. Also everyone should look at the cases that Katina makes in that game and compare that to this game; there's a clear level of depth that's missing from anything she has posted here. This Game: Show nested quote +On May 27 2012 02:34 Katina wrote:
Okay first of all, I'm really tired of people (WBG) assuming I'm mafia because of my Meta I have said myself I have been busy. Stuff kept coming up this week, that's what happens when you have a "Life". I am sorry I couldn't be more active.
Secondly the two people I have been gunning for (N_T and Mattchew) are doing nothing but constantly bashing me. N_T is so focused on getting me lynched he is completely distracting himself from the forum. Mattchew is butt hurt because I got him to crack and stop using his quotes.
Third, I realize that Zealos claimed. I was fine lynching him as I stated in one of my posts before that. So me voting for someone I thought was scummy is considered Mafia? I love the logic behind that.
I apologize for not spewing out random votes and cluttering up the thread like a lot of you do. Everyone is so focused on me for stupid reasons when there are so many scummier people. Liar Game: Show nested quote +On May 16 2012 07:26 Katina wrote:On May 16 2012 03:04 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:On May 16 2012 00:10 Katina wrote:On May 15 2012 07:35 slOosh wrote:
Katina are you calling Meapak scum? Or misguided? How about prplhz? Not really. His reasons for thinking Palmar is innocent are silly. I don't actually think he's mafia but then again I have no idea who could be on Palmar's team other than Wiggles. Katina I'm sick of you half assing this game. Put in some goddamn effort and give us some ACTUAL reasons. I don't know, maybe write an analysis, maybe have more of a thread presence, maybe PM people and at least pretend like you're interested. After the cephiro flip I blew up all my reads and started over again and let me say this katina, it's foolishness's insistence that you're town which is preventing me right now from putting you in the majority and lynching you this cycle. Play the game. I have been sir. I do not mean to overstep your pride here. Let me say again that your reasons for thinking Palmar is innocent are silly. I don't say this in an accusatory way; it's the truth. I don't think you are mafia, but as I said I don't know who the last member on Palmar's team is (I think Wiggles is one of them). You said that Palmar is innocent because he has had the same reads as you from the start. That does not indicate anything about alignment. Palmar has wanted to kill sandroba and Cephiro (these are the two you listed). But everyone wants to kill those two. Also it makes the most sense that sandroba is the last member of BC's team. So Palmar isn't bussing one of his teammates. The most incriminating piece of evidence is that Palmar was virtually derping when syllogism was alive. That's cause syllogism was hard core pushing his innocence especially in PMs. I know Foolishness and wherebugsgo were both suspicious of Palmar but syllogism made it hard for them to push that read. That and there were more important targets at the time. If you look through Palmar's post history you will see he was most active day 1 and then in the previous days since syllogism's death. Palmar was using syllogism as an excuse to not do anything. With syllogism constantly pushing his innocence he did not have to try at all, either in the thread or PM. He has only stepped up his posting since syllogism died, whether he's stepped up in PM land or not I don't know. Even if you want to start pointing guns at me, you still need to explain why Palmar deserves a free pass. Cause this isn't about me, it's about Palmar. And like I said at least one person out of you, me, and Palmar has to be mafia. Unless you're going to claim mafia I'm not stopping until Palmar is dead. When attacked in previous games (for example Liar Game) Katina typically brings forth new thoughts and reads (She's very eager to elaborate her reads on Palmar and address the issues that other people bring up). In this game though, Katina just says that she was busy and repeats the same arguments that she's been giving the entire game without analyzing anything new. With such a big difference between her town play and her play this game and a general lack of good posting and reads, I think Katina is almost definitely scum. A fairly long well thought through post, making valid points based on meta across several games and applying them to the current game. Except it's scum Hiro making this post. Looking through his town games, they are more categorised by shorter posts, where ultimately Hiro is more involved in what's going on than he is here. I believe HiroPro is scum Seriously, that's your filter. If you want to discuss what you said about HiroPro, fine. But what you said was "leaning town" --> "dont' want to lynch him, but please write up a case because I agree on the weak presence" (to Palmar) --> "I believe HiroPro is scum" I will respond to the actual last post on HiroPro, I read it but I'll work through my own thoughts now. Just...look at that progression. You haven't been hammering on HiroPro. Your read went from townie to townie but I agree on weak presence to scum. And your entire Hiro argument SEEMS to be "I thought hiro was town because he was active, now I think he's lazy town and must be scum because he's active." Can you give more robust thoughts on Hiro, because I'll discuss what you've said but it ain't much. Yes, I meant specifically the last post. I don't know what else to say because I explained in that post why I shifted my reasoning. I had believed the effort he went to to search through previous games to make good meta arguments meant he was making good effort, which tends towards a townie read. Effectively, my read previously had been taking this game in isolation, and earlier I went back and went back and looked through a bunch of Hiro's games. That's why I posted that post from Mini Magic, and commented on his other town games. I'm just rehashing in longer version what I said in that post there. There aren't really that many 'robust' thoughts to give other than what I said. I said ealrier, as you mention that he seemed disconnected/weak presence, and going back through his games, it contradicts his meta.
I guess...when I read that post, what I get is you saying- I was leaning Hiro because of "diligence" and "his arguments based on going back and finding meta" --> Hiro for effort
- I am now reversing that read, because Hiro is lazy and Hiro makes longer posts concerning meta
- I will now link one long post in which Hiro discussed Katina and her meta
- That post came from Hiro
- Looking at other games, Hiro posts short posts and is "more involved" than he is here
I dislike that post and I almost just throw it out. You looked at Hiro's past games. You gave us ONE quote from ONE game, and a blanket statement that Hiro in other games posts shorter and is more involved. Which is fine, but just understand that there's not really too much there other than some assertions about Hiro's meta that are almost certainly true, but based on size of posts.
One reason you found Hiro townie eariler was his "well thought out points" and that his "thoughts have been unique this game and [you] like the way he thinks and agree with it much of the time." Does that still hold true? Does his meta trump that? I'd be more convinced by what's happening in game than a meta argument based on short/long posts and involvement. I don't see anything in that post about whether scum Hiro's points are well thought out, or about how you agree with scum Hiro's points but not town Hiro's points.
Do you really want to lynch Hiro based on being disconnected and posting long posts? I know you are voting Ange, but are you scummy enough on Hiro because of the meta read that you have that you want to lynch him, despite liking the way he's thought and the points he's made?
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On September 22 2012 01:01 marvellosity wrote:
Nor is the reasoning for the change weak, austin. Not in the slightest.
It may not be, but you haven't really expressed it strongly. You went from town to scummy, fine. But the reasoning was that hiro was he had good points and unique thoughts that you agreed with for townhiro. Now you're saying he's disengaged and too active to be town, because town Hiro is lazy.
Right?
But look at what you've actually got down in thread, it's an incomplete window into your thought. You give us ONE big scum Hiro post, and tell us what you found about his meta. That's it. There aren't other links. There aren't townie posts to compare to.
You don't have to do that, I'm fine being told to piss off and to go do my own check through Hiro's games. But IF you take that path, then the reasoning you give in thread isn't that strong. You're just telling us your conclusion, giving us one example, and telling us we can find the rest ourselves. Whether you have strong reasoning or not, you're not broadcasting it to the thread. You went from town hiro to scum hiro based on a meta read that you describe in general terms, and give a single post to support.
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On September 22 2012 01:09 Mementoss wrote:
I'm wondering if it's best for the town if we just settle this nonsense today.
Marv vs Palmar
The problem with this is that it doesn't give us anything.
Both are perfectly capable of setting this up as scumbuddies. I think both are capable of this if they're both town. I don't terribly want to flip either, and I don't think flipping either gives us a conclusive read on the other.
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On September 22 2012 01:16 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On September 22 2012 01:10 austinmcc wrote:On September 22 2012 01:00 marvellosity wrote:On September 22 2012 00:54 austinmcc wrote:However, I'll go look at hiropro. But...you haven't been as vocal on him as you think? Heres you on Hiro the last 20 hours or so... On September 21 2012 05:24 marvellosity wrote:
Hiro I'm leaning town on now. In his massive post whenever it was he brought up a load of well thought out points, including analysis and quotes from other games, such as prplhz sheeping Palmar, and my tendency to believe the scummy things I do point towards me being town. I also liked his assessment on how you were appearing apologetic. Basically I'm leaning town on him because many of his thoughts have been unique this game and I like the way he thinks and agree with it much of the time. The thing that stops me giving a firm read of town is that he's still more... detached from the thread than he might be.
On September 21 2012 05:38 marvellosity wrote:
he didn't 'explain' anything on his 2nd highest scumread, HiroPro. On September 21 2012 06:43 marvellosity wrote:On September 21 2012 06:42 Palmar wrote:
HiroPro.
Would you agree on lynching him?
I don't have the time to write up a case now, but because mostly of weak presence and strange things I've noticed about him. No, I don't want to lynch HiroPro for reasons I elaborated on shortly before the deadline. I do agree with you about the weak presence, though. Please write up a case as soon as you can this cycle as for obvious reasons it will affect my read on you. On September 21 2012 21:55 marvellosity wrote:I haven't got more to say on Ange right now, so I'd like to talk about HiroPro a bit. Earlier I've been leaning town because I was impressed with his diligence and his arguments based on going back and finding meta from previous games, which seemed 'townie for effort'. I'm pretty much reversing that read now. Actually Hiro as town is more categorised by laziness. His last scum game was a while ago (magic mini normal), but looking through his filter there I found this: + Show Spoiler +On May 27 2012 07:00 HiroPro wrote:Katina: Katina has hardly been posting in this game and when she does, she's maintained a singular focus on N_T and Matt. Show nested quote +On May 22 2012 07:25 Katina wrote:On May 22 2012 05:52 froggynoddy wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On May 22 2012 05:29 Tunkeg wrote:
Reads d1 of Day1
Acrofalis/Marvellosity:
Leaning town based on Acrofalis aggression while he was in game. He tried to get this game going, and tried to apply some pressure.
EchelonTee:
Leaning town. He went into a fight with Acrofalis from the get go, and haven't been afraid to stick his head out.
Zealos
Get some scumvibes off him. He started the game by voting VE as number two, without a good reason. He claims it to be a joke later (which it might be). He then proceeds to vote Acrofales based on ET's case, and because of meta, basicly sheeping ET. The rest of his filter seems very empty, even though he got more post than most in this game. Some townpoints for actually bother to answer questions.
Mattchew
He might be one of those I called out for not posting earlier, that is a scum. I don't know what he is trying to do, but if his postingstyle continues this way he will be disruptive townie at best, and sabotaging scum at worst. Leaning scum for now.
Nova_Terra
Leaning scum. He was active at the start, but unlike Acrofalis his attempts at pushing seems more forced, and with no real weight behind it. His whole postingstyle seems very non-commital and gives me scumvibes.
Also Navillus need to get in the thread and do some more. His vote on WBG is the only thing he have done. And it was done without much reasoning, and in my opinion strange reasoning.
PS: I know you guys don't like list. But I want to do lists so bare with me.
PS 2: This is not an analysis post. It is a read post. When I am ready to put my vote down on someone I will try to make a good case/analysis on them. Exception is if there is a great case on them that I agree with, then I will be open about sheeping it, and probably just add some of my own reasoning to it.
This list... serves no purpose other than making you look active. Town reads are worse than useless day 1 as 1. they are even weaker than day 1 scumreads and 2. points to scum who to kill to cause confusion. EDIT: There was more but WBG and Navillus covered it whilst I was writing + Show Spoiler +On May 22 2012 05:37 Navillus wrote:
Okaaay so my WBG vote was a joke, I do not actually think it's a good idea to lynch one of our 2 vets on that basis alone and I am not really of the opinion that advice is an automatic scum-tell, it'd be nice to have a little benefit of the doubt on me not being an idiot.
Next ##Unvote
##Vote: Mattchew
As far as I can tell he's just posting with flavor text from mtg cards, if that continues I don't really care if he's scum or town it makes him impossible to read, doesn't let him contribute, and makes for a really shitty atmosphere. Mattchew stop it.
On N_T yes VE and WBG I'd say he's using pretty bad method of scumhunting/analysis and his vote is for a dumb reason, but that doesn't make him scum and aside from clear-cut examples of someone being useless or disruptive (such as restricting their posts to text from a card game) it's a bad idea to lynch someone for bad play, in my experience it's rarely a scumtell and depending on how they're playing badly it can be more of a town tell.
Tunkeg you asked a bunch of questions earlier, most of them were ignored, was there any point to them? Why don't you care that people didn't answer you/why aren't you following up? Also why post that list, if you have scum reads why aren't you just pressuring them instead of telling them, and how does telling everyone your town-reads do anything but let scum know who you think is townie and so light them up as targets?
Holy spam batman! NT scum or town please stop with multiple one or two line posts in a row, it's distracting and makes the thread harder to read through, consolidate. How is voting for Mattchew due to his posting style (which you consider to be *Bad*) different to voting N_T based on bad play? I don't necessarily disagree with you I just think you're being a little inconsistent. Shoot I forgot to unvote as promised: ##Unvote
##Vote KatinaInactive players kill town. Katina, my vote stays on you until you make an appearance. I made an apperance earlier today. Do you not read over the thread my dear? On May 22 2012 03:27 Nova_Terra wrote:On May 22 2012 02:58 VisceraEyes wrote:On May 21 2012 21:17 Nova_Terra wrote:
Hey VE since you seem to want to ignore my challenge who do you wanna kill Hey Nova, since you seem to want to ignore my question to you (something that's actually USEFUL to this game, unlike your "challenge"), how about you actually answer it instead of trying to distract town with meaningless drivel? I'll even repost it for your convenience. On May 21 2012 08:56 VisceraEyes wrote:On May 21 2012 05:59 Nova_Terra wrote:On May 21 2012 05:27 wherebugsgo wrote:
Whether or not advice is good has nothing to do with the alignment of a player, just the same as making a plan, regardless of how good it is, is generally not indicative of alignment.
If the advice makes sense, follow it. If not, don't. The question of "is this guy scum" has nothing to do with that. I never said that it has anything to do with indicacating the alignment of the player,i said that general advice seems to be contributing but isnt really. and that its just as likely mister helpful is scum, etc. Your style has so far been laced with an air of giving advice to the other players - in what way is Bugs' post giving advice any different from, say, you warning that "players trying to give advice could be scum"? ooh i forgot about that Its different because its not all i've done and because i know im town and its not really different itself, but i was aware of the hypocrisy before i made teh post I would to bring attention to this lovely post. N_T might be the BM version 2! I say this because of his spam, oneliners, and the fact he seems to be refreshing the thread every 5 minutes. When BM is mafia he always over emphasizes that he is confirmed town. Such things are silly to say and provide no help to the town I will be setting my vote. ##Vote Nove_TerraBased on his fliter, he seems to more interesting in proving his innocence then trying to find the Mafia. Show nested quote +
Look at this link where N_T was mafia. Notice that he spams here.... and what is he doing this game?
...
...
Spam!
JubJub 2: Show nested quote +On March 23 2012 14:04 Katina wrote:DoctorHelvetica is mafia This is because throughout the game he has been inconsistent in his posting.He doesn't seem to have a focus at all. DrH has done a massive amount of finger pointing. His posts consist of spamming and calling people retards. DrH is inconsistent and pointing fingers a lot. Take a look at this post: On March 12 2012 07:09 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
Caller is trolling, mafia shouldn't be that scared of me to push me day 1 for no reason because I often back off my correct reads if I get distracted.
It's up to an individuals discretion whether or not they share who they are PMing with, policy lynching someone for not doing it is stupid. Also, town circles could be set up so that somebody can claim DT to someone they confirm and then use that person to broadcast their reads, or a tracker/watcher/etc. That can be useful. In that case the last thing you want is everyone saying who they are with.
Jackal58 is being a bit silly with what Wiggles and people like that are saying. His point is that scum know who town is and because of that they can cut down any circles that arise that they aren't directly involved in themselves. Especially it would be dangerous for someone to say "i'm pming with A B C and D" and then later come out and say "I'm PMing the DT and..." when say, B and C are dead or something. It's up to an individual to share their PM targets or not.
Gumshoe is posting a lot and very focused on town circles and such. For that reason, I'm voting for him. He has 2 pages of filter all completely disconnected from finding scum. The way you're probing Caller looks as though it would be helpful, but doesn't actually lead to anything. It's wishy washy, I feel like it's the kind of thing that scum would feel they can't ignore but don't want to commit to Caller if he's town. That'll satisfy me for now, it's pretty likely I'll come up with something better or that Gumshoe will just make himself look worse The last paragraph is important here. He says gumshow is suspicious and is going to vote for him. Yet 8 hours later he makes this post: On March 12 2012 15:12 DoctorHelvetica wrote:On March 12 2012 15:03 Bill Murray wrote:
@doctorh, what are the reasons you like from curu? I'm catching up, and I value your opinion. That is also why I am sort of sheeping you. You saw what I saw out of gumshoe, switched when that wagon wasn't going anywhere for some reason, and probably found a good one here.
I remember Caller's posting earlier on in the day being suspect. He came in like a bull, china flying everywhere, and the broken glass and debris are making it easy to see a case on him being valid.
tl;dr: catching up, asking questions, can see caller being scum Caller came in trolling then made his case when there was light pressure and it seems forced. I'm not totally sold on him at the moment because I feel like this is pretty much in line with the way he always acts but Curu does make a better case. I still think Caller is a better lynch than Jackal but I'm not confident enough to push it. Caller's case is based on, from what I can tell, misunderstanding of jackals post and then overstating the significance of it. Curu has a meta read that is at least accurate. Jaybrundage is one of those players who seems to me to be participating only in the surface discussion and making little effort to figure out what peoples motives are or hunt scum. His last few posts speak for themselves really. His confidence is a little bit out of place for a newer scum player though. I'm torn between Caller and jaybrundage right now. I'd be on prplhz in an instant if his logic wasn't equally terrible last time I played with him. I'm waiting for Pandain to come into play, he's awful so I'll know right away if he's scum or not. And now his focused has shifted to Caller and jaybrundage. And this is where his focused stayed for all of another 12 hours until he posts this: On March 13 2012 05:28 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
How does Caller thinking a scum would defend another scum make him scum? Maybe I'm not following your logic.
Jackal, roleclaiming was unnecessary. If there is no claim to the contrary I'll believe you. Dreamflower is a pretty specific role and I doubt there is more than one in this game as opposed to something like medic or veteran.
We need to reconsider the business surrounding prplhz. His play is poor but it's not particularly scummy and the attempt to pin someone as scum for making a similar case around the same timeframe is ridiculous and comes off to me as a hamfisted attempt by scum to start a bandwagon. The fact that it took makes me even more sure it's scum originated or backed.
Wiggles is the first to jump on it, doing nothing in the game besides talk about mechanics/town strategy (at great length) until this point I'm surprised his first attempt at hunting scum is so forced and illogical. The fact that prplhz made a case near the same time period is inconclusive, might perhaps implicate that he is town talking to curu or caller in PM but hardly mafiaesque.
Jitsu is the only one who voted for him and he's already been in the hotseat. This is the most alarming event in this thread to me. The Caller vs VE deal is really coming off to me like an ensuing tragedy of townie vs townie. And now he's dealing with Jackal and Wiggles and Jitsu. What is interesting is how quickly DrH jumps from one case to the next. He accuses and votes for gumshoe, yet never brings up the case again except where he says he's changing his vote. He moves his vote to Caller at one point before finalizing on Jitsu. Part of the problem here is that he never follows up on his reads. From here on out all he has are one liners and random posts, there is nothing more about his reads until he makes the following post: On March 14 2012 09:03 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
Node is suspicious. I'm leaning toward Node or Caller on day 2. I know Caller is a ballsy player but he comes off as way too phony. He makes a fake case on me then ditches it for a bad case on Jackal then goes back to attacking me? He's just playing disruptively.
Node's vote switch to Sheth is a joke. Not only was Jackal not gonna get lynched but I refuse to believe by the way he was posting that he put so little thought into the game as to waste a vote on somebody completely random (the only one that actually had excusable inactivity) like Sheth. This post came near the end of night 1 as well. Suddenly there is no more attention on Jitsu. He moves away from it just like he did with gumshoe. He makes the occasional one liner about him being mafia, but never pushes his case ever again. And on Day 2 he makes this post On March 15 2012 08:58 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
Kurumi is indefenseable at this point.
jaybrundage, you play like scummy shit all game then start demanding role claims from everyone. Stop doing that. If you're town, it's stupid and unhelpful.
With Kurumi gone, we need to shoot prplhz tonight or lynch him tomorrow. He's been on Jackal and didn't react to Jackal's claim but despite this obvious fakery from Kurumi, he chooses to ignore it then go after me. He is aggressive then immediately backs off and acts like he was just messin around. What a joke.
Curu straight up lies about things I say, he at least has the good sense to vote for Kurumi.
I'm not pushing Caller anymore, his claim seems to be legit and like I said I lost some confidence in him as the day went on and moved toward Jitsu (who is also misrepresenting me). It isn't scummy for a player to change their mind and it isn't my priority to tell the town about every change of thought or thing I think, otherwise I'd end up spamming the thread. If you're that interested in my thought process, just PM me, I'm not going to clutter the thread with that shit.
kurumi, prplhz, curu that's my best guess. Abenson, rgTheSchworz, Sentinel, probably scum or traitor between those 3. Dunno about Palmar. His play seems pro-town but I know he's good. If he's town this game is probably in the bag, if it's scum it's over since it seems a town circle has been built around him.
Nobody has PM'd me in this game yet, which surprises me a little. and Jitsu isn't even on his mafia list. Furthermore he only lists Curu as scum because Curu was being a JubJub. DrH should know better than most that idiocy =/= Mafia. Yet he puts Curu on his mafia list, but removes him later on the account that Curu started making more sense. DrH is known to second guess himself more than anyone else. He even admits to it. The problem is is that he is not second guessing himself. He makes a case against someone, then immediately drops it and never returns to it. He simply has no focus. His agenda is in correspondence with a mafia. He accuses lots of people to insinuate the doubt. He tries to make everyone look bad so nobody is in the clear. Then when a mafia gets lynched he can immediately defend himself by saying he was onto them. Someone said that DrH pushed for the Kurumi lynch so therefore he is in the clear. However if you observe the day 2 votes you will notice that it's very likely the mafia team was on Kurumi the whole time. Bill Murray has gotten a town check, the only remaining players not on Kurumi are myself and EchelonTee. So he is not immediately in the clear because of the Kurumi lynch. In fact the majority of his posts about Kurumi entail things like this post: On March 16 2012 04:48 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
This thread is in fucking chaos and if this keeps up we will continue having no lynches for the rest of the game. Is everyone this terrible? I can't believe Kurumi is actually going to get away with straight up faking his role and doing nothing but trolling and trying to find the traitor all game.
I also can't believe that Curu making shit up to try to get Jackal killed and him and his scumbuddy prplhz trying to get a town suicide vig to shoot at night (benefits scum) ONLY seems odd to me. This is far and away the most embarrassing town performance I've ever seen.
You're an idiot if you don't vote for Kurumi. Caller is saying to vote for me because I flip flop and "only talk about the set-up". That's a bald faced lie, the majority of my posts are about scum or pressure and I'm WELL KNOWN to flip-flop and second guess myself constantly as town such as in AC where I changed my vote like ten times in the first day. In fact, if anything, the fact that I haven't changed my vote a million times makes me look bad. I don't even know what Katina is doing but she has no sense of meta and seems to be completely missing the obvious.
Caller is the dayvig, he confirmed it as far as I can tell so unless he somehow faked shooting Node, why would anyone vote for him? Scum have their powers in that KP cost thing it says so in the setup ...
So what Kurumi did is too scummy to be scummy? Congratulations, you've failed the most basic fucking trap of bad townie logic now never sign up for another game again you retarded jubjubs His posts about Kurumi are much like this one: "vote Kurumi or else you retard!" His only reason for voting Kurumi is that Kurumi scum slipped. No analysis or anything. Vote Kurumi or you're retarded. If this is what scumhunting is than Palmar should be the reigning champion. Even more proof of his inconsistency can be found if you click his filter and search for my name. Multiple times he lists me as mafia yet he has never hard pushed for me or giving reasons why I need to be lynched. In one post he says, "katina has called me out for stupid reasons but I'm not saying she looks like shit for "tunneling a townie" because my alignment isn't confirmed." This is interesting because when I first accused him he agreed with the arguments that I was making. He even acknowledged that he was jumping all over the place on his reads. As I said before, he's not second guessing himself. He is mafia and is casting doubt upon all the players. He has done a fabulous job of accusing everyone so when someone flips mafia he can say that he was suspicious of said person. Even if he was on Caller and Kurumi, he hasn't done anything recently besides cast more doubt on the remaining players. He has pushed for Jay to get lynched, but the majority of his accusations can be summarized with "Jay is retarded, let's kill him". This leads into the obvious fact that DrH is acting nothing like he does when he is town. This is evident from his past games. Look at one of his posts from Storm Mafia: On February 23 2012 09:08 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
I didn't sheep anybody. I made my case on BC well before I even read syllogisms original post. You're connecting points I'm making in specific reference to other peoples posts to unrelated ideas. I was trying to illustrate that the wagon forming quickly doesn't mean much. The scum don't need to defend redFF if they can get somebody else lynched.
I don't think my posts are wishy washy. I wasn't yelling in the thread for one person to get lynched over any other, but that can't really be defined as wishy washiness. I wasn't planning on rebutting the case on redFF because I never ever thought it needed to be rebutted. I voted for redFF in the end. I moved my vote to BC to put pressure on him and make sure he stays active in the thread, his responses satisfied me enough that I wanted to stick with my original convictions and give BC Day 2 to prove himself. Needless to say I'll be keeping a close eye on him.
Calling BC the alternative lynch is a non-point since his flip, or lack thereof, was inconclusive. You don't know whether or not he is scum, unless you are scum, so implying that it is a defensive alternative makes no sense as town especially considering redFF is the person I voted for.
I never called RedFF not scum. I never called him 100% scum. I said very clearly RedFF is likely scum or terrible town but his claim is poorly done and seems defensive. I was more than okay with the RedFF lynch, which seemed so likely to go through at the time I switched to BC to pressure another player I was suspicious of. Seeing as RedFF has been AWOL during this entire period, I feel I made the right choice. If I didn't think RedFF was very suspect, I would have been far more vocal in trying to get people to join a BC bandwagon but you will notice I did no such thing as far as I can recall anyway. That's as much as I'll say in the interest of defending myself.
This redFF "flip", or whatever it is, is inconclusive and I don't feel it necessary to comment on it further. I'll read filters when I have the time. Notice how he is very direct in explaining his actions about where his vote and suspicion lies. There isn't a single post he's made in this game that can be mirrored with a typical post from that game. He hasn't done any explaining this game. He only focuses on the present and fails to address his past behavior. And the few times people have brought up this fact his response has been "well I always second guess myself trolol" Put simply, he is not taking responsibility for his actions. It's also interesting to note how calm and collected he has been in the past when he is town. The above post is typical in showing is behavior when analyzing and addressing issues. Of course we know him to have a temper from time to time, as we all do whenever we are in a game with VE. However this game he has done nothing but call people retarded over and over again. This attitude is a bit reminiscent of wherebugsgo when he is mafia. I can understand being frustrated with the game (considering I have Jay riding my ass constantly), but the level of his insults coming from DrH is not only out of character, but completely unnatural. I would also like to mention that this game DrH has an absurd amount of one liners and small posts. A quick glance through Storm Mafia and Arkham City show that his posting length this game is also not in sync with his normal town play. When DrH is town, he is not afraid to write paragraphs upon paragraphs detailing his thoughts. This game we have one liners about how small our IQ is.
SummaryDrH has been playing completely out of character from his typical town play. He hasn't been focused, anormous finger pointing, one liners and insults. His posts have been inconsistent and bringing confusion into the thread. He has not been responsible this game and he needs to be held accountable for it. DrH is mafia
##Vote DoctorHelvetica In this game, when going after N_T Katina displays a very odd use of meta - very different from the way she used in the past (LII: Jubjub Mafia where Katina fingers DocH based on meta with a clear difference between his town and mafia styles (when DocH is town his posting is much longer and doesn't attack other people)). Compare that to this game, where Katina uses meta against Nova_Terra (Nova_Terra is scum because he spams as mafia. Yet he does this both as town and mafia...) That's not a logical argument at all. Also everyone should look at the cases that Katina makes in that game and compare that to this game; there's a clear level of depth that's missing from anything she has posted here. This Game: Show nested quote +On May 27 2012 02:34 Katina wrote:
Okay first of all, I'm really tired of people (WBG) assuming I'm mafia because of my Meta I have said myself I have been busy. Stuff kept coming up this week, that's what happens when you have a "Life". I am sorry I couldn't be more active.
Secondly the two people I have been gunning for (N_T and Mattchew) are doing nothing but constantly bashing me. N_T is so focused on getting me lynched he is completely distracting himself from the forum. Mattchew is butt hurt because I got him to crack and stop using his quotes.
Third, I realize that Zealos claimed. I was fine lynching him as I stated in one of my posts before that. So me voting for someone I thought was scummy is considered Mafia? I love the logic behind that.
I apologize for not spewing out random votes and cluttering up the thread like a lot of you do. Everyone is so focused on me for stupid reasons when there are so many scummier people. Liar Game: Show nested quote +On May 16 2012 07:26 Katina wrote:On May 16 2012 03:04 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:On May 16 2012 00:10 Katina wrote:On May 15 2012 07:35 slOosh wrote:
Katina are you calling Meapak scum? Or misguided? How about prplhz? Not really. His reasons for thinking Palmar is innocent are silly. I don't actually think he's mafia but then again I have no idea who could be on Palmar's team other than Wiggles. Katina I'm sick of you half assing this game. Put in some goddamn effort and give us some ACTUAL reasons. I don't know, maybe write an analysis, maybe have more of a thread presence, maybe PM people and at least pretend like you're interested. After the cephiro flip I blew up all my reads and started over again and let me say this katina, it's foolishness's insistence that you're town which is preventing me right now from putting you in the majority and lynching you this cycle. Play the game. I have been sir. I do not mean to overstep your pride here. Let me say again that your reasons for thinking Palmar is innocent are silly. I don't say this in an accusatory way; it's the truth. I don't think you are mafia, but as I said I don't know who the last member on Palmar's team is (I think Wiggles is one of them). You said that Palmar is innocent because he has had the same reads as you from the start. That does not indicate anything about alignment. Palmar has wanted to kill sandroba and Cephiro (these are the two you listed). But everyone wants to kill those two. Also it makes the most sense that sandroba is the last member of BC's team. So Palmar isn't bussing one of his teammates. The most incriminating piece of evidence is that Palmar was virtually derping when syllogism was alive. That's cause syllogism was hard core pushing his innocence especially in PMs. I know Foolishness and wherebugsgo were both suspicious of Palmar but syllogism made it hard for them to push that read. That and there were more important targets at the time. If you look through Palmar's post history you will see he was most active day 1 and then in the previous days since syllogism's death. Palmar was using syllogism as an excuse to not do anything. With syllogism constantly pushing his innocence he did not have to try at all, either in the thread or PM. He has only stepped up his posting since syllogism died, whether he's stepped up in PM land or not I don't know. Even if you want to start pointing guns at me, you still need to explain why Palmar deserves a free pass. Cause this isn't about me, it's about Palmar. And like I said at least one person out of you, me, and Palmar has to be mafia. Unless you're going to claim mafia I'm not stopping until Palmar is dead. When attacked in previous games (for example Liar Game) Katina typically brings forth new thoughts and reads (She's very eager to elaborate her reads on Palmar and address the issues that other people bring up). In this game though, Katina just says that she was busy and repeats the same arguments that she's been giving the entire game without analyzing anything new. With such a big difference between her town play and her play this game and a general lack of good posting and reads, I think Katina is almost definitely scum. A fairly long well thought through post, making valid points based on meta across several games and applying them to the current game. Except it's scum Hiro making this post. Looking through his town games, they are more categorised by shorter posts, where ultimately Hiro is more involved in what's going on than he is here. I believe HiroPro is scum Seriously, that's your filter. If you want to discuss what you said about HiroPro, fine. But what you said was "leaning town" --> "dont' want to lynch him, but please write up a case because I agree on the weak presence" (to Palmar) --> "I believe HiroPro is scum" I will respond to the actual last post on HiroPro, I read it but I'll work through my own thoughts now. Just...look at that progression. You haven't been hammering on HiroPro. Your read went from townie to townie but I agree on weak presence to scum. And your entire Hiro argument SEEMS to be "I thought hiro was town because he was active, now I think he's lazy town and must be scum because he's active." Can you give more robust thoughts on Hiro, because I'll discuss what you've said but it ain't much. Yes, I meant specifically the last post. I don't know what else to say because I explained in that post why I shifted my reasoning. I had believed the effort he went to to search through previous games to make good meta arguments meant he was making good effort, which tends towards a townie read. Effectively, my read previously had been taking this game in isolation, and earlier I went back and went back and looked through a bunch of Hiro's games. That's why I posted that post from Mini Magic, and commented on his other town games. I'm just rehashing in longer version what I said in that post there. There aren't really that many 'robust' thoughts to give other than what I said. I said ealrier, as you mention that he seemed disconnected/weak presence, and going back through his games, it contradicts his meta. I guess...when I read that post, what I get is you saying - I was leaning Hiro because of "diligence" and "his arguments based on going back and finding meta" --> Hiro for effort
- I am now reversing that read, because Hiro is lazy and Hiro makes longer posts concerning meta
- I will now link one long post in which Hiro discussed Katina and her meta
- That post came from Hiro
- Looking at other games, Hiro posts short posts and is "more involved" than he is here
I dislike that post and I almost just throw it out. You looked at Hiro's past games. You gave us ONE quote from ONE game, and a blanket statement that Hiro in other games posts shorter and is more involved. Which is fine, but just understand that there's not really too much there other than some assertions about Hiro's meta that are almost certainly true, but based on size of posts. One reason you found Hiro townie eariler was his "well thought out points" and that his "thoughts have been unique this game and [you] like the way he thinks and agree with it much of the time." Does that still hold true? Does his meta trump that? I'd be more convinced by what's happening in game than a meta argument based on short/long posts and involvement. I don't see anything in that post about whether scum Hiro's points are well thought out, or about how you agree with scum Hiro's points but not town Hiro's points. Do you really want to lynch Hiro based on being disconnected and posting long posts? I know you are voting Ange, but are you scummy enough on Hiro because of the meta read that you have that you want to lynch him, despite liking the way he's thought and the points he's made? Frankly, yes. His only scum game that wasn't his newbie game was that Magic Mini game. That was the only game of the others that I looked at that he used meta examples from across various games in a post of his. Actually in the post I quoted, he was bussing Katina (who, in that game, I thought correctly was scum on meta) and his points were all valid. It's not that I disagree with townie Hiro points, but they are rarely as... carefully constructed as his posts here were. It reminds me of Bureaucracy a bit, where slOosh made several outwardly excellent posts, but he was 'disconnected' from the thread. I could dig up my post where I said that if you really wanted. Other than that there's not a lot to do other than say "why don't you have a look at the games for yourself?". HiroPro is typically more involved in the thread as town, but it's pretty hard just to pull random snippets from other games that show this.
Okay, that's fine. Didn't realize he'd only been scum once. No worries on the bureaucracy comparison. If that's all that can be said about him, though, then it's difficult for us to discuss your read on him. The most we could do is get to the same point, "Geez, his activity and the size of his posts doesn't look the same as townHiro." I'd rather have evidence from inside this game to lynch on than something as fuzzy as that.
Coming full circle though...you should still knock it off with Palmar. I've read your stuff. There's just nothing we can really DO with HiroPro though based on your post, because while it may look wrong it's not lynchably wrong (at least for me). If there's not a robust history, then looking through his meta, especially for things like post size and involvement, doesn't get us too much compared to someone that DOES have a decent number of games of both alignments. I'll give Hiro's conduct THIS game some more attention later this cycle.
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As long as we're playing connection games, I'm still wondering about this:
On September 20 2012 19:06 Palmar wrote:For the record, I don't think mementoss is scum. I agree with almost everything said in this post, aside from lynching me. But it's fine, I don't intend for this game to reach lylo. Show nested quote +On September 20 2012 05:46 prplhz wrote:
okay prplhz list of reads:
town:
iamperfection
blazing
zephirdd
hapa
mementoss
palmar
townie/null:
austinmcc
mkfuba07
bluelightz
scummy:
ange777
hiropro
scum:
marv
remember to lynch palmar at lylo
On September 21 2012 10:02 austinmcc wrote:
SNIPPED
I'd be interested in Palmar's thoughts on ange. She was in prplhz's "scummy" range, along with hiropro, who seems to be palmar's lynch preference for today. Palmar was that one of prplhz's reads you were alright with? If so, do you want to share reasoning?
On September 21 2012 22:21 Palmar wrote:
That is very much fine with me. This ange lynch is not good anyway.
There's been far less Palmar --> Ange interaction when compared to Palmar --> Hiro, which is saying something I guess. Although there was a good amount of Ange --> Palmar action D1 where she was asking him lots of questions and trying to keep thread from letting him get by with what he was adding.
I still don't want to lynch Palmar, but only after pulling it back out do I realize how much I dislike him agreeing with "almost everything" in prplhz's list. I don't care as much about a lack of reasoning behind reads, but that post from his is actually NO reads. Agreeing with almost everything there tells us nothing about what he actually does and doesn't agree with, besides prplhz's read on Palmar himself.
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Ack. Doublesniped on some of the Ange --> Palmar action.
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On September 22 2012 05:08 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On September 22 2012 05:04 Mementoss wrote:On September 22 2012 05:00 marvellosity wrote:On July 21 2012 04:38 syllogism wrote:On July 21 2012 04:34 HiroPro wrote:
Syllo, why do you think Palmar is mafia? You haven't really said anything specific: just that his tone/attitude are off and he's not putting in effort. It's his overall behavior, lack of effort and attitude towards me and sandroba especially. Some of his reads I think are genuine (for example what he says about layabout) and some clearly are not (his BM read). Can you find anything that indicates he cares about the town and wants to push town towards anything useful? He just pops in to say something irrelevant. Town palmar would never think I'm mafia by this point (as a side note, I actually think that there is a chance that he thought that I was early on and tried to "communicate" with me by random voting me). if you don't want to listen to me, listen to syllogism How is this out of context quote relevant to anything lol, its someones opinion on meta. Because it directly applies to this game, it matches in every way. Palmar went after one of the stronger, more vocal town players in Bureaucracy (syllo), read me here. Hapa's all like "but this and this look genuine", here's syllo pointing out that as mafia Palmar does look like he's making genuine reads "Can you find anything that indicates he cares about the town and wants to push town towards anything useful? He just pops in to say something irrelevant." Again, a total mirror image of this game. He gives pointless town reads on iamperfection, but on important matters - prplhz, Ange, Hiro - he does nothing AT ALL.
Agree that some of his conduct is similar. Disagree that at the time he went after you, you were one of the more vocal town players. I know that you are often vocal, but in this game BH took that role and you were less vocal than you sometimes are, whether it was an intentional attempt to be more thinky or not.
Also, he replaced into this game. Unsure whether that changes conduct, but it's something to keep in mind that "replacing into a mini" and "starting a full-size themed game from the start" are not the same jumping-off point.
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I have no desire to lynch palmar or marv today.
If I thought that either of them would feel heavily pressured by a few votes, I might cast my lot in to see what it shook out of one of em, but I see you being able to keep their cool as scum under pressure, and I don't want to play games when I'm so sure ange is scum and we've got her up for lynch right now.
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On September 22 2012 05:15 marvellosity wrote:
The similarities are pretty clear in going after syllo and going after me. Yes, I was quiet at the start of this game, but Palmar also knows I am a threat to him in particular. Palmar has often said that syllo has the best grasp of his alignment of anyone in TL Mafia, and he went after him. Who knows Palmar's play better than me here? Anyone?
I assume you have played more games with Palmar than the rest of us. That doesn't correlate 1:1 with you having the best grasp of his play, being a threat to him, or any of that. What Palmar says about syllo is syllo-specific, and doesn't indicate there's some heirarchy out there of people who can read him that goes in order according to a single variable.
Playing a lot of games with him doesn't necessarily mean you can read him well. I'd have to go check past games with both of you in them to see how you read him. Even if I did that, I'd still be voting ange today unless something drastically changes on that front.
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On September 22 2012 05:41 iamperfection wrote:Show nested quote +On September 22 2012 05:38 Mementoss wrote:
zzzzzzzzzzzzz ange's last post 29 hours ago.
Before the suspicion on her the longest she was inactive from this game was about 13 hours. should we alert the authorties? get search teams together?
Bush, search party of three! You can eat when you find the Dufresnes.
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On September 22 2012 05:47 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On September 22 2012 05:27 austinmcc wrote:
I have no desire to lynch palmar or marv today.
If I thought that either of them would feel heavily pressured by a few votes, I might cast my lot in to see what it shook out of one of em, but I see you being able to keep their cool as scum under pressure, and I don't want to play games when I'm so sure ange is scum and we've got her up for lynch right now. Problem is, you're wrong.
Abut which part? You think one of you, if scum, would respond poorly to pressure?
Or you just think I'm wrong in one of my reads or in not wanting to vote for you guys?
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On September 22 2012 05:52 marvellosity wrote:
You should be voting for Palmar. Everyone should. Probably Ange and Palmar are both mafia, but Palmar is way more of a threat.
The discussion of the last few pages demonstrates that enough
At this point, IF either one of them is mafia, I don't find them to be threats. Neither has a big presence. Palmar, in particular, has not played a crucial role in any kind of collective town read this game.
Yes, you and he are dominating discussion, but he is not driving ideas anywhere and he doesn't seem to have any pull over the thread. Why do you find him to be a threat?
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On September 22 2012 05:56 marvellosity wrote:
because, for example, he already got Hapa, someone I hold in high regard as to logic and reading abilities, totally confused about his interactions with Ange/Hiro/whoever. This isn't something Ange does.
Okay, when you say something like that I focus more on active disruption, which he doesn't seem to have the credibility to pull off this game. Agree on that at least?
As to what you're talking about, yeah. The longer he's alive, or anyone's alive, the more time they have to post whatever. And they can make it look townie to some. But I'm just not as worried about that as you are.
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On September 22 2012 06:00 marvellosity wrote:
The whole way Palmar plays mafia is to sow enough confusion into town that by the time he's lynched town don't know who's connected to what or where.
So far, I'm pretty happy with this town. Right now I trust it not to rely on connections springing out of Palmar, if Palmar is mafia and gets flipped, in order to win.
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IF Palmar is scum and IF he's dangerous because he can cause more confusion if left alive, then right now, the best opportunity for him to sow confusion is TO DO EXACTLY WHAT HE'S DOING.
Sit back. Not say anything. Let you keep ranting about him. Let the rest of town keep keep trying to deal with your ranting against him. The more you post about him, the less likely townies are to keep slogging through your posts. It doesn't help create a concise or readable thread either. And, as of now, it's ineffective in terms of actually getting him lynched. If you're actually worried about Palmar because his continued existence is a danger to town's ability to solve this game, you are actively feeding into that by spamming so much about him when, for now, it seems relatively clear that ange is still the player that town wants to lynch.
If you know Palmar so well, the flip side is also true. Palmar has played more games with you than with the rest of the players in this game, as far as I know. That means that IF he's going to be dicking with anyone's head, it's going to be yours. So quit letting him.
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On September 22 2012 06:50 marvellosity wrote:
I'm not, town should be lynching him, that's all.
You want him lynched. You haven't said you think ange is not scum.
The reason you said you wanted him lynched over her is because he's got a great ability to sow confusion.
You're feeding that.
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If I hadn't read movie mini I'd be finding you pretty scummy based on all this. Even having read it this makes you look weird.
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Zeph's on palmar atm, but otherwise it looks pretty much like that.
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On September 22 2012 08:12 Ange777 wrote:
have missed something. But please rather sooner than later cause otherwise I'll go to sleep first.
What would your read be on me if all you had was the TOO obvious post and the prplhz vote post?
What is your current read on mementoss?
If you had to choose a lynch target for today that wasn't you, palmar, or marv, who would you be looking at and why?
If we weren't playing mafia, and everyone in this thread was actually a mountain (except you), who would be the tallest mountain? Which mountain would have the most wildlife living on it?
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I messed up the quote above, but, if nothing else, would really like the mountain question answered. The others are secondary.
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On September 22 2012 08:55 HiroPro wrote:
austin, why do you always ask such weird questions?
I don't really want to reveal.
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From the OP
Scum KP is fixed at 1. SK KP is fixed at 1.
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On September 22 2012 09:06 Ange777 wrote:
I think I saw someone posting scum kp is 2 ...
The same thing that happened here happened after the night flips. There was momentary 2 v 1 KP confusion.
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On September 22 2012 09:08 Ange777 wrote:
What's the deeper meaning behind your mountain question?
On September 22 2012 08:56 austinmcc wrote:Show nested quote +On September 22 2012 08:55 HiroPro wrote:
austin, why do you always ask such weird questions? I don't really want to reveal.
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On September 22 2012 09:12 Ange777 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 22 2012 09:11 austinmcc wrote:On September 22 2012 09:08 Ange777 wrote:
What's the deeper meaning behind your mountain question? On September 22 2012 08:56 austinmcc wrote:On September 22 2012 08:55 HiroPro wrote:
austin, why do you always ask such weird questions? I don't really want to reveal. Well I thought that you don't want to reveal because I had not answered.
Oops. Nope. If I reveal then it ruins future usefulness, and I lose half my ability to read grush in other games.
Gotta keep it secret for now.
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On September 22 2012 09:17 Ange777 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 22 2012 09:13 austinmcc wrote:On September 22 2012 09:12 Ange777 wrote:On September 22 2012 09:11 austinmcc wrote:On September 22 2012 09:08 Ange777 wrote:
What's the deeper meaning behind your mountain question? On September 22 2012 08:56 austinmcc wrote:On September 22 2012 08:55 HiroPro wrote:
austin, why do you always ask such weird questions? I don't really want to reveal. Well I thought that you don't want to reveal because I had not answered. Oops. Nope. If I reveal then it ruins future usefulness, and I lose half my ability to read grush in other games. Gotta keep it secret for now. Any comments on my defense? Or are you content testing me whether I am trolling or not?
The read on mementoss is null. You could not have caught up from either alignment. None of the stuff you answered was on the same page as his claim, so you may very well not have seen it. The day post WAS on that page, but again that doesn't really come out one way or the other.
The answer about your read on me is...not an answer. I was wondering just based off the two scummy posts I have, what your read would be. Happy you've got the correct read on me, but I'm unsure exactly when and why it went from null/town to town. Care to give the reasoning behind it?
I know it's kind of nitpicky and technical, but my vote is staying on you because of that deadline conduct. I really find it weird that you'd ask about the mason claim, then do nothing when it was clear they were claiming masons. If you thought iamperfection's vote swap was funny, that would mean you thought the whole scum team revealed themselves in like...2 minutes (:56 was the claims, :58 was iamperfection's vote iirc). Then you're so convinced he'll flip red, despite asking whether prplhz confirmed the mason claim. IF he did, you still voted him. IF he didn't, you had no reason to unvote him because of how they screwed up the claim. So...you were going to lynch him whether he claimed mason or not.
I'm still mulling over your mountain answers. May I ask why iamperfection for tallest mountain?
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On September 22 2012 09:41 Ange777 wrote:
I don't know what's wrong with asking him if he is confirming the mason claim or not. He claimed vig and than proceeded to contradict Hapa immediately. I was confused because this was a totally failed claim and for the chance that prplhz indeed was town he should immediately correct the claim. But no he did not but chose to continue trolling which made me keep the scum read on him. I admit the claim made me falter a bit but only because my town read Hapa was claiming as well. So yeah, for a short time I thought that we might even have the third scum revealing himself.
For the most part, I find nothing wrong with asking.
What I find scummy is that:
(1) You asked, then didn't do anything with the response. Like, you wanted to know this information because you asked, but then you didn't do anything with his ... I guess indirect answer of them continuing to say they were masons.
(2) Related to that, you asking makes it seem like the answer matters to you. While prplhz was still trolly, their response made it clear that they were both claiming mason. You kept your vote on them, not just the vote, but you were waiting to get the celebration started, so you thought him scum. So we know that- IF they were claiming mason, you thought he was scum (vote + celebration comment)
- IF they weren't claiming mason . . . you still think him scum? You wouldn't think he was towny for him and hapa doing that, you'd think them both scum
If both answers end up with you thinking he was scum, it feels like a slightly odd question to ask, and it feels out of place that you don't keep taunting him after the "I'm speechless. Nice claims..." bit.
(3) From your comments, we can't really see you "falter." All we have to go on is this absence. And we can't interpret that as you faltering any more than we can interpret it as "so happy to have lucked out and gotten a mason lynches" or "celebrating in scum QT."
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On September 22 2012 23:39 Hapahauli wrote:@ AnyoneShow nested quote +On September 22 2012 13:33 Bluelightz wrote:On September 22 2012 01:33 Hapahauli wrote:@ Bluelightz1. Mementoss's post's rather took my interest because he stood out out of the rest of teh people posting at the time, that't why I made my case on him, I took 10 quotes because I wanted to see how he posted after his original posting. DID YOU LOOK AT THE POST'S I QUOTED? Sure I wouldn't of made the case if Memen looked like he was contributing.
2. I didn't want to sheep, I always have my reasons for voting X or not voting Y.
3. How was I supposed to interact when I was sleeping when prplhz was on? Points #1 and #3 are fair, but Point #2 is one of my main issues. You shouldn't be concerned for giving your reasons for voting someone when there's a strong bandwagon on them. In your other games as town, you were very comfortable sheeping cases, or voting without detailing your reasoning. You bombing a semi-long case on prplzh when he had 4 votes on him was really odd, and IMO not something that should have crossed your mind if you largely agreed with the bandwagon on him. On my meta, I'm trying to NOT flood the town with 'useless' town reads, and keep them for when I need to defend them from a impending lynch, on the 'sure or not sure on reads' thing, I felt more confident with my choices on cases this game. This is odd to me. Why would you withhold information from the town. Waiting for a huge bandwagon to form on someone before you defend them is just strange. Why wouldn't you try to prevent that bandwagon/lynch in the first place by disclosing your town reads? Lastly, I'd like your comments on the Ange777 suspicions if possible. Any other reads you have would do. The more open, the better. Point #2: I don't feel comfortable simply sheeping because it's probably my fault for being fingered for "Oh he only sheeped he might be scum", I don't like to sheep because of that. Other point: Flooding the thread with my town reads aren't that useful if they're not the person being discussed, and that if I just flood the thread with town reads people will finger me for "He's only spouting town reads, he's not scum hunting kill him!"TL;DR Don't like leaving things to chance Ange777 will come after reading the thread. Now normally I view these things as mafia-mentality. I don't know why a townie would be scared of making reads because people would point fingers or be suspicious of them. I see these defensive impulses as mafia traits. However, as many of you have stated, this is Bluelightz. Is he capable of this as town? I honestly don't think so, since he's normally pretty reckless/carefree as town.
I do not know him well, think this is the first game I've played with him.
I will look back over him and you/marv discussing him later today or over the night cycle, but at least right now, i'm more concerned with the question/answer that caused him to unvote mementoss than whether he sheeps or makes town reads often.
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On September 23 2012 02:21 marvellosity wrote:
ugh, I could somehow see Ange flipping town, and it being Palmar/Hiro/austin.
I think Palmar is a much better lynch today.
I think that as to the iamperfection bit that you're concerned about, there's a possibility she had a "logic meltdown." But I'm still convinced she's mafia.
Which I'm not, btw.
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On September 23 2012 03:21 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2012 02:53 austinmcc wrote:On September 23 2012 02:21 marvellosity wrote:
ugh, I could somehow see Ange flipping town, and it being Palmar/Hiro/austin.
I think Palmar is a much better lynch today. I think that as to the iamperfection bit that you're concerned about, there's a possibility she had a "logic meltdown." But I'm still convinced she's mafia. Which I'm not, btw. That's ok. If Ange flips town you're scum. And whether you are scum or not, you're blind if you think palmar isn't scum.
Oh I've pretty much come around on palmar being scum. But your worries about him wreaking havoc seem pretty unfounded.
Also, if Ange flips town I'll actually still be town.
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On September 23 2012 03:42 Palmar wrote:
also, to be completely honest, if there is literally nothing town wants to do except to lynch either me or Ange, I wouldn't mind you guys going for me, just PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE read everything I've posted once i'm dead. Don't fucking ignore it.
Ideally we lynch marvellosity though.
Does Ange's conduct at the time of the lynch concern you at all?
How about her answers to which anthropomorphic mountains would be tallest and have the most wildlife?
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On September 23 2012 04:43 iamperfection wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2012 03:22 austinmcc wrote:On September 23 2012 03:21 marvellosity wrote:On September 23 2012 02:53 austinmcc wrote:On September 23 2012 02:21 marvellosity wrote:
ugh, I could somehow see Ange flipping town, and it being Palmar/Hiro/austin.
I think Palmar is a much better lynch today. I think that as to the iamperfection bit that you're concerned about, there's a possibility she had a "logic meltdown." But I'm still convinced she's mafia. Which I'm not, btw. That's ok. If Ange flips town you're scum. And whether you are scum or not, you're blind if you think palmar isn't scum. Oh I've pretty much come around on palmar being scum. But your worries about him wreaking havoc seem pretty unfounded. Also, if Ange flips town I'll actually still be town. If you think he is scum why not vote for him?
Because I'm more sure on ange. Afaik, basically everyone on either of the two thinks that both are scum.
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On September 23 2012 04:47 Mementoss wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2012 04:46 austinmcc wrote:On September 23 2012 04:43 iamperfection wrote:On September 23 2012 03:22 austinmcc wrote:On September 23 2012 03:21 marvellosity wrote:On September 23 2012 02:53 austinmcc wrote:On September 23 2012 02:21 marvellosity wrote:
ugh, I could somehow see Ange flipping town, and it being Palmar/Hiro/austin.
I think Palmar is a much better lynch today. I think that as to the iamperfection bit that you're concerned about, there's a possibility she had a "logic meltdown." But I'm still convinced she's mafia. Which I'm not, btw. That's ok. If Ange flips town you're scum. And whether you are scum or not, you're blind if you think palmar isn't scum. Oh I've pretty much come around on palmar being scum. But your worries about him wreaking havoc seem pretty unfounded. Also, if Ange flips town I'll actually still be town. If you think he is scum why not vote for him? Because I'm more sure on ange. Afaik, basically everyone on either of the two thinks that both are scum. Do you think Marv is scum?
I think...at the end of N1 I noted that his interactions with hiro and with ange looked funky D1. I have not gone back to fully look through him today, because I liked where we were and throwing marv into the mix for serious discussion was best saved for another day. I think that either ange or palmar, when flipped, tells us SOMETHING about marv, ange a little more (marv and palmar could very easily both be scumbuddies and just spamming thread/distancing themselves).
Right now I'm still...hmmm. I guess I'm scummy on him, yeah. He just continuously rails against Palmar, lets Palmar get his goat, tries to shift the lynch of Ange. Palmar is right that his play changed enormously pre-accusations from Palmar and post-accusations. My play has changed as well though, so I can't do too much with that. However, what marv has actually done once getting active hasn't felt pro-town. I'd hope that town marv would see what's going on, quit spamming so much, quit getting so inflamed, because he's destroyed town atmospheres in past games when doing that as town. So I read his constant sniping at Palmar as scummy.
I'd rather see ange flip. Probably rather see Palmar flip. Rather have legitimate discussion on marv, and rather give him a solid look again, especially if we flip someone non-marv and can draw any connections there.
But I'm generally paranoid, and so I'm always going to be worried about marv/Palmar both being scum, or marv and basically ANY of my other main scum candidates, because his interactions haven't felt townie this game at points. Best I can do is give an approximation of my thoughts at this point, and then do some digging during N2 to figure out how I really feel.
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On September 23 2012 04:56 Hapahauli wrote:Show nested quote +While we're at it, why is Hiro scum again? I'm mainly sheeping at this point. Palmar and marv have posts about him. Hiro's playing more carefully than his town meta and has been largely useless. He also built a huge-ass case on me and came off it for very little reason (without pushing it) to lynch austin.
He had decent reason to want to lynch me. Some of the reasoning was off, but I agree that I looked like I should have been lynched for those posts.
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On September 23 2012 04:53 Mementoss wrote:
Marv and Palmar both think HiroPro is scum, good compromise?
One is bussing the other is not.
This is assuming a lot. We have no idea who out of marv and palmar is/isn't scum. None, one, both.
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Mementoss,
Oh for sure it's definitely possible they are both scum, but unlikely. Even if one bussed the other D1 or D2, it would be really weird if they were still alive D4/5 why would scum not kill the guy who drove the lynch of a scum. Again, this is assuming a lot. Just off the top of my head, why mafia wouldn't want to kill them as town:
If palmar is town, why should mafia kill him? He's got no towncred, nobody cares about his reads. IF he flips town, then people reread him and give him some credence. Until he's flipped though, the entirety of town basically writes his posts off. He's not dangerous while alive, only dangerous (maybe) once flipped. Moreover, he gives you a great way to split votes every lynch, you can be sure people will be discussing lynchign palmar, voting palmar, trying to get switches onto palmar, and so it helps ensure that town doesn't have great consensus on a lynch target (and if they DO get consensus on Palmar, they lynch town, ta da!).
If marv is town, why should mafia kill him? Marv has spent so much time and effort sniping at Palmar that he's not doing much else. Townmarv needs shooting when he's active, stirring up discussion, getting reads from everyone on everything, forcing action (See BH D1 early). Marv isn't doing that this game because he's bogged down with Palmar. EVEN if palmar is mafia, there's no need to shoot marv. Palmar's existence and taunting makes marv near-useless as townie, A FACT WHICH HE RECOGNIZES TO SOME EXTENT - + Show Spoiler +On September 21 2012 09:42 marvellosity wrote:
I'm so behind, I hadn't even got on to considering austin's posts yet :< On September 21 2012 09:45 marvellosity wrote:
no, I mean I literally had been talking to you and looking at Bluelightz's past games and shit, so i was putting austin's posts aside for a moment.
I'll have a proper look myself; obviously I'd had some niggles as I asked you that question about her interactions with iamp a little earlier. On September 21 2012 10:57 marvellosity wrote:
I need to read the thread more closely if i'm missing shit like that on first pass
What do you think of Hiro, are you willing to make the switch.?
To be completely honest, I haven't been looking at Hiro this day. I'm reluctant to make a switch so late on someone I haven't been giving full consideration to during this cycle.
I won't be here at deadline. I'm at work now and really don't want to stay here on a Saturday. If you guys are switching and have enough votes...then I guess you're switching? Wish we'd stay on ange, who NOBODY is really stepping up and defending except Palmar, who the majority of people seem to think is scum. I can't guarantee that my vote is available at deadline to prevent a no-lynch, but I can stay another 10 minutes or so and hope that it's in a useful spot.
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For anyone voting Hiro, you're comfortable just switching off of Palmar to Hiro because Hiro has been unhelpful?
Hasn't Palmar been unhelpful? Why switch from unhelpful to unhelpful because of unhelpful?
I dunno Hiro's alignment, but I know I just mislynched him in PTP3 (themed, not mini) for being more inactive than I thought town Hiro was, because I remembered him asking lots of questions and pushing his thoughts towards logical conclusions in other games. My gut read, without having given him my full attention this game, is that Hiro is... town? I guess? That point on Palmar entering the thread with 3 scumreads isn't guaranteed townie post, but it makes me feel like he's town.
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On September 23 2012 05:13 Hapahauli wrote:
Yeah I'm pretty comfortable after looking at his D2 play. It reads like he doesn't give a shit about the lynch.
He sheeped Ange, then switched to Palmar for no explanation. All the while, he hasn't given a hard opinion on any other player in the game.
It doesn't help that he switched off his main scumread (me) after building a case on me just because no one wanted to vote me. Didn't push his case at all.
Palmar doesn't give a shit about lynch. Ange doesn't really give a shit about lynch. Zephirdd says he's just sheeping and doesn't know why Hiro is scum (doesn't care about lynch). Bluelightz I dunno if he cares about lynch or not.
Half the game doesn't seem to give a shit about the lynch, except that they don't want it on them. Why SWITCH to one guy at the end of a day because of that reasoning?
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Final thought for the moment, and I'll try and check from phone before deadline.
From what I remember of ange in her newbie games, she's a VERY dangerous scumhunter. I remember being very impressed.
Pure WIFOM, but IF she were town this game, then I wouldn't think the scumteam would just let her slip away. She wouldn't just be a mislynch, she'd be a mislynch on someone who has proven dangerous to leave alive in the past. It's absolute utter WIFOM because afaik that applies to Palmar and probably to others. But I don't see ALL this confusion and ALL this switching if she were town. Scum could just lynch her and be happy with it.
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On September 23 2012 05:18 Mementoss wrote:
Also deadline is right now. Do you not find it odd hiro left all day and came back to say k were lynching palmar now and vote palmar?
I think we've got a number of people who are doing that. I find it...really unhelpful and I wish they wouldn't. But when ange is gone for long periods of time, Palmar pops in and out, Zephirdd pops in and out and just says he's sheeping, Bluelightz is never around, and marv is entirely absent right before lynch, I don't find it "odd" that Hiro returns right now.
I think the majority of the players here are unhelpful right now for this deadline and these switches. I don't find it odd that one more is.
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On September 23 2012 05:18 Hapahauli wrote:
Because it seems that Palmar cares. He's actually pushing his reads.
I don't see Palmar caring. I don't see him pushing his reads.
The thing I see from him that's most pushing his reads is requesting that we kill him so we'll listen. But that's not really being helpful, that's just being lazy all game and counting on you dying to make up for your lack of usefulness while alive.
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On September 23 2012 05:20 Hapahauli wrote:
Don't forget, Ange wasn't accurate until D3/D4 in her newbie games. Again, I find the logic odd, but I can see it coming from town.
But seriously, look at Hiro's D2 play. There's nothing there.
Ange was accurate D1 in the game I replaced in for her. Maybe XVI? Something.
Thread was mislynching, she had been afk for most of D1. She came in, rallied troops, found scum, wrote case, pushed, lynched scum. D1. Then replaced out, I came in, and eventually lost the game because I was dumb. qqqqqqqqqqqqq
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On September 23 2012 05:21 Mementoss wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2012 05:20 austinmcc wrote:On September 23 2012 05:18 Mementoss wrote:
Also deadline is right now. Do you not find it odd hiro left all day and came back to say k were lynching palmar now and vote palmar? I think we've got a number of people who are doing that. I find it...really unhelpful and I wish they wouldn't. But when ange is gone for long periods of time, Palmar pops in and out, Zephirdd pops in and out and just says he's sheeping, Bluelightz is never around, and marv is entirely absent right before lynch, I don't find it "odd" that Hiro returns right now. I think the majority of the players here are unhelpful right now for this deadline and these switches. I don't find it odd that one more is. Do you find it odd that marv was around all the time to spam and then leaves before the lynch deadline when people are switching to the one person he made a case on today hiro?
Yes, I do. But the logical conclusion of your question is maybe pushing marv for a lynch, which I don't want to do right now. We've got enough swapping and targets right now, another is NOT going to help. This is already way too much.
But yeah, it looks bad that he seems to be gone now when lynch options include PALMAR and HIRO, who he has seemingly wanted lynched since he learned to walk.
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I have to go. I will try and check phone at deadline. Trying to mass swap this late in a cycle is an awful idea, especially when we don't even know who we'd swap to. Ange, fine. Palmar, fine. But then an additional swap onto Hiro for reasons that apply to half the thread is something I don't want to do.
Hiro's post on Palmar doesn't give me a clear town read on him, but...it's curious and maybe leads to a slight town read, for reasons entirely unrelated to activity. BLARKJSDKLASJDASLDKJASD. I'll read him a little closer, but I don't like the way this lynch is feeling.
1.5 days of nice happy town thread, good discussion, good targets, really useful. Then AS:DKDJASHDLJKASDHASJKLDHASDKLAHSD. AMG PALMAR CAME IN LET'S SWAP SWAP SWAP SWAP. AMG HIRO VOTE SWAP SWAP SWAP SWAP. We were so calm and useful for most of this day, and i like the decisions calm/useful town makes a lot more than I like the last minute decisions that are being considered right now.
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On September 23 2012 05:25 Hapahauli wrote:
He's pushing Hiro, and I happen to agree. Hiro hasn't done jack.
He's not actually PUSHING hiro.
He gave his read, but that's it. There's no forward motion or anything, he just drops Hiro scummy at the start of the day, and then drops reasoning RIGHT BEFORE LYNCH.
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On September 23 2012 05:25 Mementoss wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2012 05:23 austinmcc wrote:On September 23 2012 05:21 Mementoss wrote:On September 23 2012 05:20 austinmcc wrote:On September 23 2012 05:18 Mementoss wrote:
Also deadline is right now. Do you not find it odd hiro left all day and came back to say k were lynching palmar now and vote palmar? I think we've got a number of people who are doing that. I find it...really unhelpful and I wish they wouldn't. But when ange is gone for long periods of time, Palmar pops in and out, Zephirdd pops in and out and just says he's sheeping, Bluelightz is never around, and marv is entirely absent right before lynch, I don't find it "odd" that Hiro returns right now. I think the majority of the players here are unhelpful right now for this deadline and these switches. I don't find it odd that one more is. Do you find it odd that marv was around all the time to spam and then leaves before the lynch deadline when people are switching to the one person he made a case on today hiro? Yes, I do. But the logical conclusion of your question is maybe pushing marv for a lynch, which I don't want to do right now. We've got enough swapping and targets right now, another is NOT going to help. This is already way too much. But yeah, it looks bad that he seems to be gone now when lynch options include PALMAR and HIRO, who he has seemingly wanted lynched since he learned to walk. Actually marv had hiro as town day 1 and then for the same reasons he had hiro as town he used those reasons to make hiro scum in day 2 as hapa pointed out earlier.
Yeah yeah, I know. I was being hyperbolic. I promise I know that, was questioning marv about it earlier.
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On September 23 2012 05:28 Mementoss wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2012 05:26 austinmcc wrote:
I have to go. I will try and check phone at deadline. Trying to mass swap this late in a cycle is an awful idea, especially when we don't even know who we'd swap to. Ange, fine. Palmar, fine. But then an additional swap onto Hiro for reasons that apply to half the thread is something I don't want to do.
Hiro's post on Palmar doesn't give me a clear town read on him, but...it's curious and maybe leads to a slight town read, for reasons entirely unrelated to activity. BLARKJSDKLASJDASLDKJASD. I'll read him a little closer, but I don't like the way this lynch is feeling.
1.5 days of nice happy town thread, good discussion, good targets, really useful. Then AS:DKDJASHDLJKASDHASJKLDHASDKLAHSD. AMG PALMAR CAME IN LET'S SWAP SWAP SWAP SWAP. AMG HIRO VOTE SWAP SWAP SWAP SWAP. We were so calm and useful for most of this day, and i like the decisions calm/useful town makes a lot more than I like the last minute decisions that are being considered right now. See last minute switch onto SnB in LVII. lol
See last minute D1 switches in Bureacracy. See last minute switches in probably most other games. Foolishness had a comment on it in Bureaucracy. Even though he was scum, it was a townie point to make.
It's just...it's super simple. Scum likes confusion. Scum likes being able to control town. The more craziness occurs, the more confusion and the easier you can control when town's votes are split 3-4 ways.
This may not be scum-oriented, but the fact that we had such a nice D2 for MOST of the cycle, then all of a sudden EXPLOSION into craziness makes me feel like some of this is scum-pushed.
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EBWOP: LVII ongoing, not going to write more thoughts on that
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Relevant Foolishness post from Bureaucracy:
On July 18 2012 15:50 Foolishness wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2012 15:35 wherebugsgo wrote:On July 18 2012 15:33 Foolishness wrote:On July 18 2012 15:30 wherebugsgo wrote:On July 18 2012 15:21 Foolishness wrote:On July 18 2012 14:27 sandroba wrote:On July 18 2012 14:25 Foolishness wrote:
God dammit I was playing league of legends then had to step out quickly. What the heck happened Basically your team probably won the game. Gratz. You were the one behind 3 wagons within a 10 hour period. Instead of just staying on syllogism and Blazinghand from the start you and bugs and others had to run around with the votes. Good job. no one wanted to kill syllo today except you What's your point? So Blazinghand would have gotten lynched anyways, and definitely a lot of people did not have an issue with that. Then you decide to switch to austin. Then you decide to switch to gonzaw. Then you decide to switch back. All in a 10 hour period. You know better than that. I didn't decide to switch to gonzaw. I wasn't even here when people started calling gonzaw scum. I only switched my vote to ensure there was a lynch. When I saw that gonzaw was still behind I switched back. Here you are pointing fingers when your vote was wasted most of all. Hardly. There were two non-voters (one of which is still alive) and still three people on Austin. And in the grand scheme of things everyone's vote was wasted because nobody got lynched. You can't honestly expect to sit there and pin this on me or anyone else with a "stupid" vote. I know I was gone right after the austin thing came up and didn't come back until just now. You and everyone else here knows that when the votes switch from person to person in the hours before deadline a no-lynch is the usual outcome. It's practically written in the mafia guide.And what I know is that you and sandroba were the initial force behind the austin switch. You might have not been here for the gonzaw switch initially, but juding by the voting thread you were one of the starters on the wagon back towards Blazinghand (you were the first person to vote off of gonzaw onto him).
On July 19 2012 01:51 Foolishness wrote:
SNIPPED
It's as risk.nuke says, dumb unorganized town. Anyone who moved their vote around more than twice in the last 8 hours of the day should be held accountable. The strange thing is is that these were all people that know better than to try things like that.
He was scum. risk.nuke was also scum, lol. But those thoughts felt like legitimate townie points.
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Actually for realsies going now.
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(1) hooray
(2) still not scum
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On September 23 2012 06:53 iamperfection wrote:is it ok if we dont take your word for it?
yes
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On September 23 2012 06:56 iamperfection wrote:
Could you explain further why you didnt just switch to palmar when you could? You said you had a scum read on both ange and palmar so why care. Even if its true that you thought ange had a better chance it should have been pretty clear that the confirmed townies [hapa and memon] were gonna have their way basically.
Figured either ange or palmar would be lynchable, only saw...one town read on ange and none on palmar? So was confident that someone out of those two would end up being lynched.
Between the two, preferred ange. My main concern was trying to stop further voteswitching onto hiro or marv or any other last minute target instead of the other two.
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On September 23 2012 20:14 marvellosity wrote:
On the flip side of this, austin did seem to take a somewhat active part in persuading Hapa that Palmar was being useless and that coming into the thread one time != participating/caring.
So I'm entertaining the notion that austin could just be playing with pants-on-head at various points in this game rather than be scum. Not entirely sure which it is right now. Still leaning scum though.
Ugh. I don't think there's any chance I'm the NK tonight after all this, but I'll try and give what I can on the Palmar stuff today. It was mainly just some nagging little feelings. One of them you referenced above.
On September 23 2012 05:21 austinmcc wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2012 05:18 Hapahauli wrote:
Because it seems that Palmar cares. He's actually pushing his reads. I don't see Palmar caring. I don't see him pushing his reads. The thing I see from him that's most pushing his reads is requesting that we kill him so we'll listen. But that's not really being helpful, that's just being lazy all game and counting on you dying to make up for your lack of usefulness while alive. This comes AFTER I've "mostly come around." This is the main thing that had me past that, though, and willing to vote palmar if people would have gotten off Hiro and gone back to a Palmar lynch at this point.
I was being entirely truthful with this statement, the most he had done to push his reads was to ask us to kill him. Which is fine and dandy if you've actually been giving full-throated reads. But Palmar had given little to no thought to a lot of the players in the game, afaik Zephirdd and Bluelightz don't come up much/at all (?), and to some of the remainder was still basing his reads on what had happened in the first 5 pages (iamperfection).
I didn't really like the whole "kill me so you can trust my reads, which don't really exist on a lot of players, and also I'm not trying to give you guys more to work with when I die." Once he became a serious lynch candidate, even if he's town and wants us to kill him in order to trust him, he should have changed his posting. Been more informative, been as WIFOMy as he wanted because he knew he'd flip green, but throw everything into thread he could. Never did, yet was still asking us to kill him in order to verify the truthfulness on just the tiny amount of thoughts he'd given.
I dunno, my comments on Palmar DO look shady. At the same time, if you read them, you hopefully see a progression of town --> unsure --> mostly coming around --> GET OFF OF HIRO AND VOTE ANGE (preferably) OR PALMAR. Don't know if that's actually townie or not, especially when I'm not explaining the changes at all/fully.
And yes marv, you weren't useless. More hyperbole. But apart from talking about bluelightz and not reading when I started looking heavily at ange, one of the quotes is just you saying you weren't reading this game close enough. That wasn't time specific. I 100% think you let palmar get your goat (see your D1 OMGUS, see all the "Palmar useless again" posts) and allowed him to use you to clog thread and to be...less than fully useful.
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On September 23 2012 22:21 marvellosity wrote:
It wasn't that I wasn't reading what you had to say about Ange, it's that I was concentrating on BL at the time before moving on to something else.
I'm not going to say my views/interactions Palmar have always been emotion free, because that would be silly, but you're looking at things upside down imo. Actually Palmar's accusation of me got me super-invested in this game whereas before I was not. Regularly dying night 1 and 2 gradually erodes your motivation to be invested in a game as you might like, and so having the town's gaze on me forced me to get my butt in gear.
In short, Palmar's presence in this game has caused me to be more emotional than I might have been otherwise, but more importantly, more invested too. When I'm pretty sure someone is scum, I snipe at them - perhaps it's not optimal, but it's what I do. I called Zealos a total idiot when he was scum in Magic Mini when I was pursuing him, I called JingleHell a squirmy little bitch when I was pursuing him in Mad Men.
I tunnel people for shit, and hey, I'm not going to apologise for it - because one thing I am good at is getting who I want lynched. When I really want someone to die, they die, whether people like how I went about it or not.
True. I'm always thinking in terms of movie mini. Like, after that game, had I been you, I would be hypervigilant in the future about not OMGUSing and not being so reactionary.
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On September 23 2012 22:20 iamperfection wrote:
@ austin in light of the flip what do you think is the most likely scenario now regarding the remaining scum?
I still think ange is scum, that's independent of palmar. I think the question about confirming the mason claim + not responding to that at all + seemingly lynching whether they claimed mason or not = scum in my mind.
The rest is all super hypothetical, but I'll spew some nonsense. I'm assuming 3 scum no SK at this point, that's "most likely" afaik. Thoughts:
Ange's response to my mountain question was really cagey. When grush has responded, he's tended to follow a pattern of "what is the equivalent of that descriptor in mafia terms (tallest = what in mafia game?, like that), and then answer based off of what he thinks a descriptor means in terms of mafia. Sometimes he's failed to answer, but still provided the reasoning for what he thinks a descriptor means. Ange's answer was just names. THIS IS NOT A GOOD REASON TO LYNCH SOMEONE OR FIND SOMEONE SCUMMY. BUT, I can't help but interpret her answer. The short, cagey answers make me worried. No reasoning, no explanation, no nothing. Ange hasn't played in either of the games I've asked grush similar questions. I haven't explained why I ask those questions. Her answers, as I see them, show that she doesn't want to reveal her hand at all, and just gives names. I worry about that, and the fact that she does so makes me think that IF she's scum, then the remaining scum (assuming 3) is someone who HAS played in PTP3 or LVII, or at the very least obsed them (If I got those questions from someone, I'd have no clue why they were asking. Ange didn't play in either of those games. Ange should find those questions VERY ODD. She answered them, which to me indicates that someone in QT told her about that stupid questions I've been asking Grush). Therefore, IF scumange, THEN scumsomeonewhoplayedinoneofthose games, leading me to sort of discard bluelightz as scum (I believe iamperfection, marv, hiro, zephir all played in or read those games).
Another ange thought, her response to votes when she came back was very long, very thorough, pretty well thought out. Gut read - that post was crafted, and someone with at least a little experience in playing scum helped shape that in QT. That doesn't really get me anything though as I know palmar was alive at the point that answer was crafted, so ange's post doesn't necessarily give away anything about the 3rd scum if 3 scum.
I need to fully reread Hiro. I just lynched him for being off/less active in PTP3 than I remembered him in town games. That's the reasoning we have for the lynch here. I'm going to be hesitant to lynch on that reasoning (or loosely on that reasoning) when I mislynched on the same grounds last game. So I need to figure out where I went wrong, and see what Hiro shakes out this game. I have a mild townread on Hiro based on that Palmar entrance comment, so right now I would NOT put him as my third scum.
That leaves...marv, zephir, you (bluelightz is out based on mountain answer, hiro out atm).
For NOW, the most likely scenario is NOT marv. marv would normally not get too much cred from me for his read on palmar. but the rb helps craft a better marv town/palmar scum story, and I'll go with it for now. Since you asked it "most likely," I've got to admit that holding the rb and marv claiming it is less likely than marv town. I think it's absolutely plausible that they'd play games with the rb, but certainly not 50+% likely. Also, like I noted at the end of N1, marv/ange interactions D1 were maybe a little wonky. Guh, I really seem to want to make marv scummy here, but no. Most likely town.
So now I've got zephirdd, iamperfection for 3rd scum (still assuming 3). Right at the moment I don't have a preference between those two? Off the top of my head zephir has felt scummier I guess? I'd need to look harder at the two of you.
That answer for third scum sucks, but it's what I have right at this moment. There's the rest of my thoughts on a couple players though.
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On September 23 2012 22:39 marvellosity wrote:
You're drawing too many similarities where they don't exist, though.
VE tunnelled me so hard and in the end I believed he had to be scum because no townie would be so blind. Most of why I felt VE was scum was on how he interacted with me.
Here I went to quite a lot of effort to remove as much as possible the interactions between me and Palmar (other than the initial silly OMGUS). My case rested on his (lack of) views on prplhz, Ange, Hiro, and his lack of investment in the game, and how this fitted his scum meta to a tee.
From a personal point of view, I was extremely convinced that a town Palmar wouldn't still be thinking I was scum by the middle of Day 2, which helped firm my own read up. But I didn't bring this to the thread because I knew it was pointless and unconvincing.
My case on Palmar though had practically nothing to do with OMGUS (even though it started that way).
I probably am. I know that your finding him scummy wasn't pure OMGUS, and wasn't pure "not contributing." I'm just going to knee-jerk find you slightly, slightly scummy in any game where you get into a pissing match with someone else to this extent though. Which will probably end up being a bunch of games until I can get away from that.
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On September 23 2012 22:56 marvellosity wrote:
If you were lynching him for being off-meta in PTP3, then you weren't using meta correctly. Simple as that.
It was part off meta, yeah. Honestly remembered a TON of little questions in Bureaucracy that then led him to reads and conclusions, and it felt in PTP3 that he was asking less little questions, and then doing less with them. I was clearly wrong in reading him as scum.
A lot of the PTP3 lynch though was also off of mechanics. Shots on him that disappeared and were only explained by the fact that he didn't flip until after being dead. So the mechanics of his role kind of made him look scummy, when townies claimed to have shot at him yet the damage was missing.
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I'll give him a more thorough look then. Hiro, iamperfection, zephirdd.
PTP3 pre-replacement did not get much attention from me. He may well have looked like himself during that bit and I was just lazy and didn't fully read. I think that and Bureacracy may be the only games I've played with Hiro, apart from him maybe being in one of the numbered games? But I was an idiot in LV if he was in that and wouldn't have taken anything away about his play. So I'm not going to claim to really know his play, and he may well have looked like himself.
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On September 23 2012 23:27 iamperfection wrote:
I think your making a big stretch there and making a lot of assumptions. I think palmars whole plan was to have mis lynch on ange then probally dominate the town conversation from then on forward. A green flip i think would have caused a lot of confusion i think and the marv palmar fighting would just continue giving palmar more time to push further agendas. So im 99% certian ange is town.
The rest is all super hypothetical, but I'll spew some nonsense.
The response to the mountain question doesn't lead to any kind of strong read, but that's where my thoughts go based on her answer.
I would ask, however, why, if Palmar's plan was to have a mis lynch on ange, he wouldn't vote ange. Is your line of thinking "Palmar knows town finds he scummy, therefore he calls ange town, hoping people will lynch her harder because she's got a townread from Palmar?" That's ALSO pretty tenuous. I'm not sure how you're interpreting Palmar's actions to yield that plan.
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On September 23 2012 23:37 marvellosity wrote:
you're both wifoming, although iamp was right, your post was very speculatively pointless in large parts.
I'm pointlessly very speculative in large parts. I know it's entirely speculative, but I'd rather give my full thought process behind things, and really ange's answer to the mountain question is the biggest piece of me not thinking bluelightz is scum right now.
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On September 23 2012 23:42 iamperfection wrote:
im just having a hard time thinking the two biggest wagons were both on scum.
So then what do you make of the end of D2? We had ange wagon, palmar wagon, and then hiro swap towards the end. If you have a hard time thinking we had two wagons on scum, do you feel that hiro is townie?
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On September 23 2012 23:52 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2012 23:50 austinmcc wrote:On September 23 2012 23:37 marvellosity wrote:
you're both wifoming, although iamp was right, your post was very speculatively pointless in large parts. I'm pointlessly very speculative in large parts. I know it's entirely speculative, but I'd rather give my full thought process behind things, and really ange's answer to the mountain question is the biggest piece of me not thinking bluelightz is scum right now. Right, which is complete bollocks. It's just a meaningless contribution based on wild speculation with no basis whatsoever.
You could have also gone with it being "an honest and complete answer."
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ack. poor deadline timing. gg all, sorry for the brain farts i had during this game.
GO TOWN!
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Oh wow. GG all.
Big ups to BH for the D1 start we had. Felt like a lot of our momentum was generated by his early posting.
Sexy sexy town action for us to have 3 lynch candidates D2 and all of them scum, and just to be active and have a relatively shit-free thread.
Bad job austinmcc for looking scummy so often and not putting in enough effort D1.
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EPT
