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HiroPro
Profile Joined March 2012
United States2624 Posts
September 22 2012 20:17 GMT
#1241
ptp3 was kind of an aberration for me lol.


but man, this is dumb. like Palmar is scum - I don't understand how you guys don't see it...
Mementoss
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Canada2595 Posts
September 22 2012 20:18 GMT
#1242
On September 23 2012 05:08 austinmcc wrote:
Mementoss,

Show nested quote +
Oh for sure it's definitely possible they are both scum, but unlikely. Even if one bussed the other D1 or D2, it would be really weird if they were still alive D4/5 why would scum not kill the guy who drove the lynch of a scum.
Again, this is assuming a lot. Just off the top of my head, why mafia wouldn't want to kill them as town:

If palmar is town, why should mafia kill him? He's got no towncred, nobody cares about his reads. IF he flips town, then people reread him and give him some credence. Until he's flipped though, the entirety of town basically writes his posts off. He's not dangerous while alive, only dangerous (maybe) once flipped. Moreover, he gives you a great way to split votes every lynch, you can be sure people will be discussing lynchign palmar, voting palmar, trying to get switches onto palmar, and so it helps ensure that town doesn't have great consensus on a lynch target (and if they DO get consensus on Palmar, they lynch town, ta da!).

If marv is town, why should mafia kill him? Marv has spent so much time and effort sniping at Palmar that he's not doing much else. Townmarv needs shooting when he's active, stirring up discussion, getting reads from everyone on everything, forcing action (See BH D1 early). Marv isn't doing that this game because he's bogged down with Palmar. EVEN if palmar is mafia, there's no need to shoot marv. Palmar's existence and taunting makes marv near-useless as townie, A FACT WHICH HE RECOGNIZES TO SOME EXTENT - + Show Spoiler +
On September 21 2012 09:42 marvellosity wrote:
I'm so behind, I hadn't even got on to considering austin's posts yet :<
On September 21 2012 09:45 marvellosity wrote:
no, I mean I literally had been talking to you and looking at Bluelightz's past games and shit, so i was putting austin's posts aside for a moment.

I'll have a proper look myself; obviously I'd had some niggles as I asked you that question about her interactions with iamp a little earlier.
On September 21 2012 10:57 marvellosity wrote:
I need to read the thread more closely if i'm missing shit like that on first pass

. It's one reason I'm trying to stay on Marv and get him to do non-Palmar stuff, because IF he's town he's valuable, but he's not being so while he's consumed with posting about and thinking about Palmar. He knows it, he admits that he's missing stuff, but he keeps chasing Palmar. No need for mafia to kill him when he's missing stuff.

Show nested quote +
What do you think of Hiro, are you willing to make the switch.?

To be completely honest, I haven't been looking at Hiro this day. I'm reluctant to make a switch so late on someone I haven't been giving full consideration to during this cycle.


I won't be here at deadline. I'm at work now and really don't want to stay here on a Saturday. If you guys are switching and have enough votes...then I guess you're switching? Wish we'd stay on ange, who NOBODY is really stepping up and defending except Palmar, who the majority of people seem to think is scum. I can't guarantee that my vote is available at deadline to prevent a no-lynch, but I can stay another 10 minutes or so and hope that it's in a useful spot.


This shit isn't important right now. And you misunderstood the point I was trying to say I didn't say it made sense for palmar of marv to be killed in this context. Im saying if either one of them pushed the others lynch and they flipped scum it would be really weird that they would stay be kept alive by mafia. So it would be unlikely move as both of them being mafia. It was a response to your hypothetical. Obviously its a lot of assumptions -_-.

Also deadline is right now. Do you not find it odd hiro left all day and came back to say k were lynching palmar now and vote palmar?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uu96xMwFVXw
Hapahauli
Profile Joined May 2009
United States9305 Posts
September 22 2012 20:18 GMT
#1243
Because it seems that Palmar cares. He's actually pushing his reads.

As for Ange, I'm still leaning scummy on her, but I can see situations where she flips town. Her play is illogical for sure, but it could be confirmation bais. I can see a townie doing that, and I agree with Palmar's read.

Hiro coming in and being willing to switch between Palmar and Ange devoid of reasoning makes me think they're both town.
a talking rock that sprouts among the waves woosh
austinmcc
Profile Joined October 2010
United States6737 Posts
September 22 2012 20:18 GMT
#1244
Final thought for the moment, and I'll try and check from phone before deadline.

From what I remember of ange in her newbie games, she's a VERY dangerous scumhunter. I remember being very impressed.

Pure WIFOM, but IF she were town this game, then I wouldn't think the scumteam would just let her slip away. She wouldn't just be a mislynch, she'd be a mislynch on someone who has proven dangerous to leave alive in the past. It's absolute utter WIFOM because afaik that applies to Palmar and probably to others. But I don't see ALL this confusion and ALL this switching if she were town. Scum could just lynch her and be happy with it.
Fe fi fo fum.
austinmcc
Profile Joined October 2010
United States6737 Posts
September 22 2012 20:20 GMT
#1245
On September 23 2012 05:18 Mementoss wrote:
Also deadline is right now. Do you not find it odd hiro left all day and came back to say k were lynching palmar now and vote palmar?

I think we've got a number of people who are doing that. I find it...really unhelpful and I wish they wouldn't. But when ange is gone for long periods of time, Palmar pops in and out, Zephirdd pops in and out and just says he's sheeping, Bluelightz is never around, and marv is entirely absent right before lynch, I don't find it "odd" that Hiro returns right now.

I think the majority of the players here are unhelpful right now for this deadline and these switches. I don't find it odd that one more is.
Fe fi fo fum.
Hapahauli
Profile Joined May 2009
United States9305 Posts
September 22 2012 20:20 GMT
#1246
Don't forget, Ange wasn't accurate until D3/D4 in her newbie games. Again, I find the logic odd, but I can see it coming from town.

But seriously, look at Hiro's D2 play. There's nothing there.
a talking rock that sprouts among the waves woosh
Mementoss
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Canada2595 Posts
September 22 2012 20:21 GMT
#1247
On September 23 2012 05:20 austinmcc wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 23 2012 05:18 Mementoss wrote:
Also deadline is right now. Do you not find it odd hiro left all day and came back to say k were lynching palmar now and vote palmar?

I think we've got a number of people who are doing that. I find it...really unhelpful and I wish they wouldn't. But when ange is gone for long periods of time, Palmar pops in and out, Zephirdd pops in and out and just says he's sheeping, Bluelightz is never around, and marv is entirely absent right before lynch, I don't find it "odd" that Hiro returns right now.

I think the majority of the players here are unhelpful right now for this deadline and these switches. I don't find it odd that one more is.


Do you find it odd that marv was around all the time to spam and then leaves before the lynch deadline when people are switching to the one person he made a case on today hiro?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uu96xMwFVXw
austinmcc
Profile Joined October 2010
United States6737 Posts
September 22 2012 20:21 GMT
#1248
On September 23 2012 05:18 Hapahauli wrote:
Because it seems that Palmar cares. He's actually pushing his reads.

I don't see Palmar caring. I don't see him pushing his reads.

The thing I see from him that's most pushing his reads is requesting that we kill him so we'll listen. But that's not really being helpful, that's just being lazy all game and counting on you dying to make up for your lack of usefulness while alive.
Fe fi fo fum.
HiroPro
Profile Joined March 2012
United States2624 Posts
September 22 2012 20:21 GMT
#1249
On September 23 2012 05:20 Hapahauli wrote:
Don't forget, Ange wasn't accurate until D3/D4 in her newbie games. Again, I find the logic odd, but I can see it coming from town.

But seriously, look at Hiro's D2 play. There's nothing there.


because there was no need to do anything. I was fine with either lynch.
austinmcc
Profile Joined October 2010
United States6737 Posts
September 22 2012 20:22 GMT
#1250
On September 23 2012 05:20 Hapahauli wrote:
Don't forget, Ange wasn't accurate until D3/D4 in her newbie games. Again, I find the logic odd, but I can see it coming from town.

But seriously, look at Hiro's D2 play. There's nothing there.

Ange was accurate D1 in the game I replaced in for her. Maybe XVI? Something.

Thread was mislynching, she had been afk for most of D1. She came in, rallied troops, found scum, wrote case, pushed, lynched scum. D1. Then replaced out, I came in, and eventually lost the game because I was dumb. qqqqqqqqqqqqq
Fe fi fo fum.
austinmcc
Profile Joined October 2010
United States6737 Posts
September 22 2012 20:23 GMT
#1251
On September 23 2012 05:21 Mementoss wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 23 2012 05:20 austinmcc wrote:
On September 23 2012 05:18 Mementoss wrote:
Also deadline is right now. Do you not find it odd hiro left all day and came back to say k were lynching palmar now and vote palmar?

I think we've got a number of people who are doing that. I find it...really unhelpful and I wish they wouldn't. But when ange is gone for long periods of time, Palmar pops in and out, Zephirdd pops in and out and just says he's sheeping, Bluelightz is never around, and marv is entirely absent right before lynch, I don't find it "odd" that Hiro returns right now.

I think the majority of the players here are unhelpful right now for this deadline and these switches. I don't find it odd that one more is.


Do you find it odd that marv was around all the time to spam and then leaves before the lynch deadline when people are switching to the one person he made a case on today hiro?


Yes, I do. But the logical conclusion of your question is maybe pushing marv for a lynch, which I don't want to do right now. We've got enough swapping and targets right now, another is NOT going to help. This is already way too much.

But yeah, it looks bad that he seems to be gone now when lynch options include PALMAR and HIRO, who he has seemingly wanted lynched since he learned to walk.
Fe fi fo fum.
Hapahauli
Profile Joined May 2009
United States9305 Posts
September 22 2012 20:25 GMT
#1252
On September 23 2012 05:22 austinmcc wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 23 2012 05:20 Hapahauli wrote:
Don't forget, Ange wasn't accurate until D3/D4 in her newbie games. Again, I find the logic odd, but I can see it coming from town.

But seriously, look at Hiro's D2 play. There's nothing there.

Ange was accurate D1 in the game I replaced in for her. Maybe XVI? Something.

Thread was mislynching, she had been afk for most of D1. She came in, rallied troops, found scum, wrote case, pushed, lynched scum. D1. Then replaced out, I came in, and eventually lost the game because I was dumb. qqqqqqqqqqqqq


I only saw Ange in XXII (nominated for best town play btw). In that game, she really did work on D3/D4, but not so much on the first two days.

I don't see Palmar caring. I don't see him pushing his reads.


He's pushing Hiro, and I happen to agree. Hiro hasn't done jack.
a talking rock that sprouts among the waves woosh
Mementoss
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Canada2595 Posts
September 22 2012 20:25 GMT
#1253
On September 23 2012 05:23 austinmcc wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 23 2012 05:21 Mementoss wrote:
On September 23 2012 05:20 austinmcc wrote:
On September 23 2012 05:18 Mementoss wrote:
Also deadline is right now. Do you not find it odd hiro left all day and came back to say k were lynching palmar now and vote palmar?

I think we've got a number of people who are doing that. I find it...really unhelpful and I wish they wouldn't. But when ange is gone for long periods of time, Palmar pops in and out, Zephirdd pops in and out and just says he's sheeping, Bluelightz is never around, and marv is entirely absent right before lynch, I don't find it "odd" that Hiro returns right now.

I think the majority of the players here are unhelpful right now for this deadline and these switches. I don't find it odd that one more is.


Do you find it odd that marv was around all the time to spam and then leaves before the lynch deadline when people are switching to the one person he made a case on today hiro?


Yes, I do. But the logical conclusion of your question is maybe pushing marv for a lynch, which I don't want to do right now. We've got enough swapping and targets right now, another is NOT going to help. This is already way too much.

But yeah, it looks bad that he seems to be gone now when lynch options include PALMAR and HIRO, who he has seemingly wanted lynched since he learned to walk.


Actually marv had hiro as town day 1 and then for the same reasons he had hiro as town he used those reasons to make hiro scum in day 2 as hapa pointed out earlier.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uu96xMwFVXw
austinmcc
Profile Joined October 2010
United States6737 Posts
September 22 2012 20:26 GMT
#1254
I have to go. I will try and check phone at deadline. Trying to mass swap this late in a cycle is an awful idea, especially when we don't even know who we'd swap to. Ange, fine. Palmar, fine. But then an additional swap onto Hiro for reasons that apply to half the thread is something I don't want to do.

Hiro's post on Palmar doesn't give me a clear town read on him, but...it's curious and maybe leads to a slight town read, for reasons entirely unrelated to activity. BLARKJSDKLASJDASLDKJASD. I'll read him a little closer, but I don't like the way this lynch is feeling.

1.5 days of nice happy town thread, good discussion, good targets, really useful. Then AS:DKDJASHDLJKASDHASJKLDHASDKLAHSD. AMG PALMAR CAME IN LET'S SWAP SWAP SWAP SWAP. AMG HIRO VOTE SWAP SWAP SWAP SWAP. We were so calm and useful for most of this day, and i like the decisions calm/useful town makes a lot more than I like the last minute decisions that are being considered right now.
Fe fi fo fum.
austinmcc
Profile Joined October 2010
United States6737 Posts
September 22 2012 20:27 GMT
#1255
On September 23 2012 05:25 Hapahauli wrote:
He's pushing Hiro, and I happen to agree. Hiro hasn't done jack.

He's not actually PUSHING hiro.

He gave his read, but that's it. There's no forward motion or anything, he just drops Hiro scummy at the start of the day, and then drops reasoning RIGHT BEFORE LYNCH.
Fe fi fo fum.
austinmcc
Profile Joined October 2010
United States6737 Posts
September 22 2012 20:27 GMT
#1256
On September 23 2012 05:25 Mementoss wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 23 2012 05:23 austinmcc wrote:
On September 23 2012 05:21 Mementoss wrote:
On September 23 2012 05:20 austinmcc wrote:
On September 23 2012 05:18 Mementoss wrote:
Also deadline is right now. Do you not find it odd hiro left all day and came back to say k were lynching palmar now and vote palmar?

I think we've got a number of people who are doing that. I find it...really unhelpful and I wish they wouldn't. But when ange is gone for long periods of time, Palmar pops in and out, Zephirdd pops in and out and just says he's sheeping, Bluelightz is never around, and marv is entirely absent right before lynch, I don't find it "odd" that Hiro returns right now.

I think the majority of the players here are unhelpful right now for this deadline and these switches. I don't find it odd that one more is.


Do you find it odd that marv was around all the time to spam and then leaves before the lynch deadline when people are switching to the one person he made a case on today hiro?


Yes, I do. But the logical conclusion of your question is maybe pushing marv for a lynch, which I don't want to do right now. We've got enough swapping and targets right now, another is NOT going to help. This is already way too much.

But yeah, it looks bad that he seems to be gone now when lynch options include PALMAR and HIRO, who he has seemingly wanted lynched since he learned to walk.


Actually marv had hiro as town day 1 and then for the same reasons he had hiro as town he used those reasons to make hiro scum in day 2 as hapa pointed out earlier.

Yeah yeah, I know. I was being hyperbolic. I promise I know that, was questioning marv about it earlier.
Fe fi fo fum.
Mementoss
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Canada2595 Posts
September 22 2012 20:28 GMT
#1257
On September 23 2012 05:26 austinmcc wrote:
I have to go. I will try and check phone at deadline. Trying to mass swap this late in a cycle is an awful idea, especially when we don't even know who we'd swap to. Ange, fine. Palmar, fine. But then an additional swap onto Hiro for reasons that apply to half the thread is something I don't want to do.

Hiro's post on Palmar doesn't give me a clear town read on him, but...it's curious and maybe leads to a slight town read, for reasons entirely unrelated to activity. BLARKJSDKLASJDASLDKJASD. I'll read him a little closer, but I don't like the way this lynch is feeling.

1.5 days of nice happy town thread, good discussion, good targets, really useful. Then AS:DKDJASHDLJKASDHASJKLDHASDKLAHSD. AMG PALMAR CAME IN LET'S SWAP SWAP SWAP SWAP. AMG HIRO VOTE SWAP SWAP SWAP SWAP. We were so calm and useful for most of this day, and i like the decisions calm/useful town makes a lot more than I like the last minute decisions that are being considered right now.


See last minute switch onto SnB in LVII. lol
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uu96xMwFVXw
Hapahauli
Profile Joined May 2009
United States9305 Posts
September 22 2012 20:30 GMT
#1258
On September 23 2012 05:27 austinmcc wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 23 2012 05:25 Hapahauli wrote:
He's pushing Hiro, and I happen to agree. Hiro hasn't done jack.

He's not actually PUSHING hiro.

He gave his read, but that's it. There's no forward motion or anything, he just drops Hiro scummy at the start of the day, and then drops reasoning RIGHT BEFORE LYNCH.


I think that's fair. Admittedly, one of the reasons I have a semi-town read on Palmar is because of GoodKarma's filter.

I have a meta read on GK's filter - GK is more confrontational in the early game as scum, and more passive as town. Is Palmar confusing me? Yes. However, I do think he's telling the truth about Hiro either way.
a talking rock that sprouts among the waves woosh
austinmcc
Profile Joined October 2010
United States6737 Posts
September 22 2012 20:31 GMT
#1259
On September 23 2012 05:28 Mementoss wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 23 2012 05:26 austinmcc wrote:
I have to go. I will try and check phone at deadline. Trying to mass swap this late in a cycle is an awful idea, especially when we don't even know who we'd swap to. Ange, fine. Palmar, fine. But then an additional swap onto Hiro for reasons that apply to half the thread is something I don't want to do.

Hiro's post on Palmar doesn't give me a clear town read on him, but...it's curious and maybe leads to a slight town read, for reasons entirely unrelated to activity. BLARKJSDKLASJDASLDKJASD. I'll read him a little closer, but I don't like the way this lynch is feeling.

1.5 days of nice happy town thread, good discussion, good targets, really useful. Then AS:DKDJASHDLJKASDHASJKLDHASDKLAHSD. AMG PALMAR CAME IN LET'S SWAP SWAP SWAP SWAP. AMG HIRO VOTE SWAP SWAP SWAP SWAP. We were so calm and useful for most of this day, and i like the decisions calm/useful town makes a lot more than I like the last minute decisions that are being considered right now.


See last minute switch onto SnB in LVII. lol

See last minute D1 switches in Bureacracy. See last minute switches in probably most other games. Foolishness had a comment on it in Bureaucracy. Even though he was scum, it was a townie point to make.

It's just...it's super simple. Scum likes confusion. Scum likes being able to control town. The more craziness occurs, the more confusion and the easier you can control when town's votes are split 3-4 ways.

This may not be scum-oriented, but the fact that we had such a nice D2 for MOST of the cycle, then all of a sudden EXPLOSION into craziness makes me feel like some of this is scum-pushed.
Fe fi fo fum.
austinmcc
Profile Joined October 2010
United States6737 Posts
September 22 2012 20:32 GMT
#1260
EBWOP: LVII ongoing, not going to write more thoughts on that
Fe fi fo fum.
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