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On September 22 2012 01:01 marvellosity wrote:
Nor is the reasoning for the change weak, austin. Not in the slightest.
It may not be, but you haven't really expressed it strongly. You went from town to scummy, fine. But the reasoning was that hiro was he had good points and unique thoughts that you agreed with for townhiro. Now you're saying he's disengaged and too active to be town, because town Hiro is lazy.
Right?
But look at what you've actually got down in thread, it's an incomplete window into your thought. You give us ONE big scum Hiro post, and tell us what you found about his meta. That's it. There aren't other links. There aren't townie posts to compare to.
You don't have to do that, I'm fine being told to piss off and to go do my own check through Hiro's games. But IF you take that path, then the reasoning you give in thread isn't that strong. You're just telling us your conclusion, giving us one example, and telling us we can find the rest ourselves. Whether you have strong reasoning or not, you're not broadcasting it to the thread. You went from town hiro to scum hiro based on a meta read that you describe in general terms, and give a single post to support.
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On September 22 2012 01:09 Mementoss wrote:
I'm wondering if it's best for the town if we just settle this nonsense today.
Marv vs Palmar
The problem with this is that it doesn't give us anything.
Both are perfectly capable of setting this up as scumbuddies. I think both are capable of this if they're both town. I don't terribly want to flip either, and I don't think flipping either gives us a conclusive read on the other.
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United Kingdom36156 Posts
On September 22 2012 01:10 austinmcc wrote:Show nested quote +On September 22 2012 01:00 marvellosity wrote:On September 22 2012 00:54 austinmcc wrote:However, I'll go look at hiropro. But...you haven't been as vocal on him as you think? Heres you on Hiro the last 20 hours or so... On September 21 2012 05:24 marvellosity wrote:
Hiro I'm leaning town on now. In his massive post whenever it was he brought up a load of well thought out points, including analysis and quotes from other games, such as prplhz sheeping Palmar, and my tendency to believe the scummy things I do point towards me being town. I also liked his assessment on how you were appearing apologetic. Basically I'm leaning town on him because many of his thoughts have been unique this game and I like the way he thinks and agree with it much of the time. The thing that stops me giving a firm read of town is that he's still more... detached from the thread than he might be.
On September 21 2012 05:38 marvellosity wrote:
he didn't 'explain' anything on his 2nd highest scumread, HiroPro. On September 21 2012 06:43 marvellosity wrote:On September 21 2012 06:42 Palmar wrote:
HiroPro.
Would you agree on lynching him?
I don't have the time to write up a case now, but because mostly of weak presence and strange things I've noticed about him. No, I don't want to lynch HiroPro for reasons I elaborated on shortly before the deadline. I do agree with you about the weak presence, though. Please write up a case as soon as you can this cycle as for obvious reasons it will affect my read on you. On September 21 2012 21:55 marvellosity wrote:I haven't got more to say on Ange right now, so I'd like to talk about HiroPro a bit. Earlier I've been leaning town because I was impressed with his diligence and his arguments based on going back and finding meta from previous games, which seemed 'townie for effort'. I'm pretty much reversing that read now. Actually Hiro as town is more categorised by laziness. His last scum game was a while ago (magic mini normal), but looking through his filter there I found this: + Show Spoiler +On May 27 2012 07:00 HiroPro wrote:Katina: Katina has hardly been posting in this game and when she does, she's maintained a singular focus on N_T and Matt. Show nested quote +On May 22 2012 07:25 Katina wrote:On May 22 2012 05:52 froggynoddy wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On May 22 2012 05:29 Tunkeg wrote:
Reads d1 of Day1
Acrofalis/Marvellosity:
Leaning town based on Acrofalis aggression while he was in game. He tried to get this game going, and tried to apply some pressure.
EchelonTee:
Leaning town. He went into a fight with Acrofalis from the get go, and haven't been afraid to stick his head out.
Zealos
Get some scumvibes off him. He started the game by voting VE as number two, without a good reason. He claims it to be a joke later (which it might be). He then proceeds to vote Acrofales based on ET's case, and because of meta, basicly sheeping ET. The rest of his filter seems very empty, even though he got more post than most in this game. Some townpoints for actually bother to answer questions.
Mattchew
He might be one of those I called out for not posting earlier, that is a scum. I don't know what he is trying to do, but if his postingstyle continues this way he will be disruptive townie at best, and sabotaging scum at worst. Leaning scum for now.
Nova_Terra
Leaning scum. He was active at the start, but unlike Acrofalis his attempts at pushing seems more forced, and with no real weight behind it. His whole postingstyle seems very non-commital and gives me scumvibes.
Also Navillus need to get in the thread and do some more. His vote on WBG is the only thing he have done. And it was done without much reasoning, and in my opinion strange reasoning.
PS: I know you guys don't like list. But I want to do lists so bare with me.
PS 2: This is not an analysis post. It is a read post. When I am ready to put my vote down on someone I will try to make a good case/analysis on them. Exception is if there is a great case on them that I agree with, then I will be open about sheeping it, and probably just add some of my own reasoning to it.
This list... serves no purpose other than making you look active. Town reads are worse than useless day 1 as 1. they are even weaker than day 1 scumreads and 2. points to scum who to kill to cause confusion. EDIT: There was more but WBG and Navillus covered it whilst I was writing + Show Spoiler +On May 22 2012 05:37 Navillus wrote:
Okaaay so my WBG vote was a joke, I do not actually think it's a good idea to lynch one of our 2 vets on that basis alone and I am not really of the opinion that advice is an automatic scum-tell, it'd be nice to have a little benefit of the doubt on me not being an idiot.
Next ##Unvote
##Vote: Mattchew
As far as I can tell he's just posting with flavor text from mtg cards, if that continues I don't really care if he's scum or town it makes him impossible to read, doesn't let him contribute, and makes for a really shitty atmosphere. Mattchew stop it.
On N_T yes VE and WBG I'd say he's using pretty bad method of scumhunting/analysis and his vote is for a dumb reason, but that doesn't make him scum and aside from clear-cut examples of someone being useless or disruptive (such as restricting their posts to text from a card game) it's a bad idea to lynch someone for bad play, in my experience it's rarely a scumtell and depending on how they're playing badly it can be more of a town tell.
Tunkeg you asked a bunch of questions earlier, most of them were ignored, was there any point to them? Why don't you care that people didn't answer you/why aren't you following up? Also why post that list, if you have scum reads why aren't you just pressuring them instead of telling them, and how does telling everyone your town-reads do anything but let scum know who you think is townie and so light them up as targets?
Holy spam batman! NT scum or town please stop with multiple one or two line posts in a row, it's distracting and makes the thread harder to read through, consolidate. How is voting for Mattchew due to his posting style (which you consider to be *Bad*) different to voting N_T based on bad play? I don't necessarily disagree with you I just think you're being a little inconsistent. Shoot I forgot to unvote as promised: ##Unvote
##Vote KatinaInactive players kill town. Katina, my vote stays on you until you make an appearance. I made an apperance earlier today. Do you not read over the thread my dear? On May 22 2012 03:27 Nova_Terra wrote:On May 22 2012 02:58 VisceraEyes wrote:On May 21 2012 21:17 Nova_Terra wrote:
Hey VE since you seem to want to ignore my challenge who do you wanna kill Hey Nova, since you seem to want to ignore my question to you (something that's actually USEFUL to this game, unlike your "challenge"), how about you actually answer it instead of trying to distract town with meaningless drivel? I'll even repost it for your convenience. On May 21 2012 08:56 VisceraEyes wrote:On May 21 2012 05:59 Nova_Terra wrote:On May 21 2012 05:27 wherebugsgo wrote:
Whether or not advice is good has nothing to do with the alignment of a player, just the same as making a plan, regardless of how good it is, is generally not indicative of alignment.
If the advice makes sense, follow it. If not, don't. The question of "is this guy scum" has nothing to do with that. I never said that it has anything to do with indicacating the alignment of the player,i said that general advice seems to be contributing but isnt really. and that its just as likely mister helpful is scum, etc. Your style has so far been laced with an air of giving advice to the other players - in what way is Bugs' post giving advice any different from, say, you warning that "players trying to give advice could be scum"? ooh i forgot about that Its different because its not all i've done and because i know im town and its not really different itself, but i was aware of the hypocrisy before i made teh post I would to bring attention to this lovely post. N_T might be the BM version 2! I say this because of his spam, oneliners, and the fact he seems to be refreshing the thread every 5 minutes. When BM is mafia he always over emphasizes that he is confirmed town. Such things are silly to say and provide no help to the town I will be setting my vote. ##Vote Nove_TerraBased on his fliter, he seems to more interesting in proving his innocence then trying to find the Mafia. Show nested quote +
Look at this link where N_T was mafia. Notice that he spams here.... and what is he doing this game?
...
...
Spam!
JubJub 2: Show nested quote +On March 23 2012 14:04 Katina wrote:DoctorHelvetica is mafia This is because throughout the game he has been inconsistent in his posting.He doesn't seem to have a focus at all. DrH has done a massive amount of finger pointing. His posts consist of spamming and calling people retards. DrH is inconsistent and pointing fingers a lot. Take a look at this post: On March 12 2012 07:09 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
Caller is trolling, mafia shouldn't be that scared of me to push me day 1 for no reason because I often back off my correct reads if I get distracted.
It's up to an individuals discretion whether or not they share who they are PMing with, policy lynching someone for not doing it is stupid. Also, town circles could be set up so that somebody can claim DT to someone they confirm and then use that person to broadcast their reads, or a tracker/watcher/etc. That can be useful. In that case the last thing you want is everyone saying who they are with.
Jackal58 is being a bit silly with what Wiggles and people like that are saying. His point is that scum know who town is and because of that they can cut down any circles that arise that they aren't directly involved in themselves. Especially it would be dangerous for someone to say "i'm pming with A B C and D" and then later come out and say "I'm PMing the DT and..." when say, B and C are dead or something. It's up to an individual to share their PM targets or not.
Gumshoe is posting a lot and very focused on town circles and such. For that reason, I'm voting for him. He has 2 pages of filter all completely disconnected from finding scum. The way you're probing Caller looks as though it would be helpful, but doesn't actually lead to anything. It's wishy washy, I feel like it's the kind of thing that scum would feel they can't ignore but don't want to commit to Caller if he's town. That'll satisfy me for now, it's pretty likely I'll come up with something better or that Gumshoe will just make himself look worse The last paragraph is important here. He says gumshow is suspicious and is going to vote for him. Yet 8 hours later he makes this post: On March 12 2012 15:12 DoctorHelvetica wrote:On March 12 2012 15:03 Bill Murray wrote:
@doctorh, what are the reasons you like from curu? I'm catching up, and I value your opinion. That is also why I am sort of sheeping you. You saw what I saw out of gumshoe, switched when that wagon wasn't going anywhere for some reason, and probably found a good one here.
I remember Caller's posting earlier on in the day being suspect. He came in like a bull, china flying everywhere, and the broken glass and debris are making it easy to see a case on him being valid.
tl;dr: catching up, asking questions, can see caller being scum Caller came in trolling then made his case when there was light pressure and it seems forced. I'm not totally sold on him at the moment because I feel like this is pretty much in line with the way he always acts but Curu does make a better case. I still think Caller is a better lynch than Jackal but I'm not confident enough to push it. Caller's case is based on, from what I can tell, misunderstanding of jackals post and then overstating the significance of it. Curu has a meta read that is at least accurate. Jaybrundage is one of those players who seems to me to be participating only in the surface discussion and making little effort to figure out what peoples motives are or hunt scum. His last few posts speak for themselves really. His confidence is a little bit out of place for a newer scum player though. I'm torn between Caller and jaybrundage right now. I'd be on prplhz in an instant if his logic wasn't equally terrible last time I played with him. I'm waiting for Pandain to come into play, he's awful so I'll know right away if he's scum or not. And now his focused has shifted to Caller and jaybrundage. And this is where his focused stayed for all of another 12 hours until he posts this: On March 13 2012 05:28 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
How does Caller thinking a scum would defend another scum make him scum? Maybe I'm not following your logic.
Jackal, roleclaiming was unnecessary. If there is no claim to the contrary I'll believe you. Dreamflower is a pretty specific role and I doubt there is more than one in this game as opposed to something like medic or veteran.
We need to reconsider the business surrounding prplhz. His play is poor but it's not particularly scummy and the attempt to pin someone as scum for making a similar case around the same timeframe is ridiculous and comes off to me as a hamfisted attempt by scum to start a bandwagon. The fact that it took makes me even more sure it's scum originated or backed.
Wiggles is the first to jump on it, doing nothing in the game besides talk about mechanics/town strategy (at great length) until this point I'm surprised his first attempt at hunting scum is so forced and illogical. The fact that prplhz made a case near the same time period is inconclusive, might perhaps implicate that he is town talking to curu or caller in PM but hardly mafiaesque.
Jitsu is the only one who voted for him and he's already been in the hotseat. This is the most alarming event in this thread to me. The Caller vs VE deal is really coming off to me like an ensuing tragedy of townie vs townie. And now he's dealing with Jackal and Wiggles and Jitsu. What is interesting is how quickly DrH jumps from one case to the next. He accuses and votes for gumshoe, yet never brings up the case again except where he says he's changing his vote. He moves his vote to Caller at one point before finalizing on Jitsu. Part of the problem here is that he never follows up on his reads. From here on out all he has are one liners and random posts, there is nothing more about his reads until he makes the following post: On March 14 2012 09:03 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
Node is suspicious. I'm leaning toward Node or Caller on day 2. I know Caller is a ballsy player but he comes off as way too phony. He makes a fake case on me then ditches it for a bad case on Jackal then goes back to attacking me? He's just playing disruptively.
Node's vote switch to Sheth is a joke. Not only was Jackal not gonna get lynched but I refuse to believe by the way he was posting that he put so little thought into the game as to waste a vote on somebody completely random (the only one that actually had excusable inactivity) like Sheth. This post came near the end of night 1 as well. Suddenly there is no more attention on Jitsu. He moves away from it just like he did with gumshoe. He makes the occasional one liner about him being mafia, but never pushes his case ever again. And on Day 2 he makes this post On March 15 2012 08:58 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
Kurumi is indefenseable at this point.
jaybrundage, you play like scummy shit all game then start demanding role claims from everyone. Stop doing that. If you're town, it's stupid and unhelpful.
With Kurumi gone, we need to shoot prplhz tonight or lynch him tomorrow. He's been on Jackal and didn't react to Jackal's claim but despite this obvious fakery from Kurumi, he chooses to ignore it then go after me. He is aggressive then immediately backs off and acts like he was just messin around. What a joke.
Curu straight up lies about things I say, he at least has the good sense to vote for Kurumi.
I'm not pushing Caller anymore, his claim seems to be legit and like I said I lost some confidence in him as the day went on and moved toward Jitsu (who is also misrepresenting me). It isn't scummy for a player to change their mind and it isn't my priority to tell the town about every change of thought or thing I think, otherwise I'd end up spamming the thread. If you're that interested in my thought process, just PM me, I'm not going to clutter the thread with that shit.
kurumi, prplhz, curu that's my best guess. Abenson, rgTheSchworz, Sentinel, probably scum or traitor between those 3. Dunno about Palmar. His play seems pro-town but I know he's good. If he's town this game is probably in the bag, if it's scum it's over since it seems a town circle has been built around him.
Nobody has PM'd me in this game yet, which surprises me a little. and Jitsu isn't even on his mafia list. Furthermore he only lists Curu as scum because Curu was being a JubJub. DrH should know better than most that idiocy =/= Mafia. Yet he puts Curu on his mafia list, but removes him later on the account that Curu started making more sense. DrH is known to second guess himself more than anyone else. He even admits to it. The problem is is that he is not second guessing himself. He makes a case against someone, then immediately drops it and never returns to it. He simply has no focus. His agenda is in correspondence with a mafia. He accuses lots of people to insinuate the doubt. He tries to make everyone look bad so nobody is in the clear. Then when a mafia gets lynched he can immediately defend himself by saying he was onto them. Someone said that DrH pushed for the Kurumi lynch so therefore he is in the clear. However if you observe the day 2 votes you will notice that it's very likely the mafia team was on Kurumi the whole time. Bill Murray has gotten a town check, the only remaining players not on Kurumi are myself and EchelonTee. So he is not immediately in the clear because of the Kurumi lynch. In fact the majority of his posts about Kurumi entail things like this post: On March 16 2012 04:48 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
This thread is in fucking chaos and if this keeps up we will continue having no lynches for the rest of the game. Is everyone this terrible? I can't believe Kurumi is actually going to get away with straight up faking his role and doing nothing but trolling and trying to find the traitor all game.
I also can't believe that Curu making shit up to try to get Jackal killed and him and his scumbuddy prplhz trying to get a town suicide vig to shoot at night (benefits scum) ONLY seems odd to me. This is far and away the most embarrassing town performance I've ever seen.
You're an idiot if you don't vote for Kurumi. Caller is saying to vote for me because I flip flop and "only talk about the set-up". That's a bald faced lie, the majority of my posts are about scum or pressure and I'm WELL KNOWN to flip-flop and second guess myself constantly as town such as in AC where I changed my vote like ten times in the first day. In fact, if anything, the fact that I haven't changed my vote a million times makes me look bad. I don't even know what Katina is doing but she has no sense of meta and seems to be completely missing the obvious.
Caller is the dayvig, he confirmed it as far as I can tell so unless he somehow faked shooting Node, why would anyone vote for him? Scum have their powers in that KP cost thing it says so in the setup ...
So what Kurumi did is too scummy to be scummy? Congratulations, you've failed the most basic fucking trap of bad townie logic now never sign up for another game again you retarded jubjubs His posts about Kurumi are much like this one: "vote Kurumi or else you retard!" His only reason for voting Kurumi is that Kurumi scum slipped. No analysis or anything. Vote Kurumi or you're retarded. If this is what scumhunting is than Palmar should be the reigning champion. Even more proof of his inconsistency can be found if you click his filter and search for my name. Multiple times he lists me as mafia yet he has never hard pushed for me or giving reasons why I need to be lynched. In one post he says, "katina has called me out for stupid reasons but I'm not saying she looks like shit for "tunneling a townie" because my alignment isn't confirmed." This is interesting because when I first accused him he agreed with the arguments that I was making. He even acknowledged that he was jumping all over the place on his reads. As I said before, he's not second guessing himself. He is mafia and is casting doubt upon all the players. He has done a fabulous job of accusing everyone so when someone flips mafia he can say that he was suspicious of said person. Even if he was on Caller and Kurumi, he hasn't done anything recently besides cast more doubt on the remaining players. He has pushed for Jay to get lynched, but the majority of his accusations can be summarized with "Jay is retarded, let's kill him". This leads into the obvious fact that DrH is acting nothing like he does when he is town. This is evident from his past games. Look at one of his posts from Storm Mafia: On February 23 2012 09:08 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
I didn't sheep anybody. I made my case on BC well before I even read syllogisms original post. You're connecting points I'm making in specific reference to other peoples posts to unrelated ideas. I was trying to illustrate that the wagon forming quickly doesn't mean much. The scum don't need to defend redFF if they can get somebody else lynched.
I don't think my posts are wishy washy. I wasn't yelling in the thread for one person to get lynched over any other, but that can't really be defined as wishy washiness. I wasn't planning on rebutting the case on redFF because I never ever thought it needed to be rebutted. I voted for redFF in the end. I moved my vote to BC to put pressure on him and make sure he stays active in the thread, his responses satisfied me enough that I wanted to stick with my original convictions and give BC Day 2 to prove himself. Needless to say I'll be keeping a close eye on him.
Calling BC the alternative lynch is a non-point since his flip, or lack thereof, was inconclusive. You don't know whether or not he is scum, unless you are scum, so implying that it is a defensive alternative makes no sense as town especially considering redFF is the person I voted for.
I never called RedFF not scum. I never called him 100% scum. I said very clearly RedFF is likely scum or terrible town but his claim is poorly done and seems defensive. I was more than okay with the RedFF lynch, which seemed so likely to go through at the time I switched to BC to pressure another player I was suspicious of. Seeing as RedFF has been AWOL during this entire period, I feel I made the right choice. If I didn't think RedFF was very suspect, I would have been far more vocal in trying to get people to join a BC bandwagon but you will notice I did no such thing as far as I can recall anyway. That's as much as I'll say in the interest of defending myself.
This redFF "flip", or whatever it is, is inconclusive and I don't feel it necessary to comment on it further. I'll read filters when I have the time. Notice how he is very direct in explaining his actions about where his vote and suspicion lies. There isn't a single post he's made in this game that can be mirrored with a typical post from that game. He hasn't done any explaining this game. He only focuses on the present and fails to address his past behavior. And the few times people have brought up this fact his response has been "well I always second guess myself trolol" Put simply, he is not taking responsibility for his actions. It's also interesting to note how calm and collected he has been in the past when he is town. The above post is typical in showing is behavior when analyzing and addressing issues. Of course we know him to have a temper from time to time, as we all do whenever we are in a game with VE. However this game he has done nothing but call people retarded over and over again. This attitude is a bit reminiscent of wherebugsgo when he is mafia. I can understand being frustrated with the game (considering I have Jay riding my ass constantly), but the level of his insults coming from DrH is not only out of character, but completely unnatural. I would also like to mention that this game DrH has an absurd amount of one liners and small posts. A quick glance through Storm Mafia and Arkham City show that his posting length this game is also not in sync with his normal town play. When DrH is town, he is not afraid to write paragraphs upon paragraphs detailing his thoughts. This game we have one liners about how small our IQ is.
SummaryDrH has been playing completely out of character from his typical town play. He hasn't been focused, anormous finger pointing, one liners and insults. His posts have been inconsistent and bringing confusion into the thread. He has not been responsible this game and he needs to be held accountable for it. DrH is mafia
##Vote DoctorHelvetica In this game, when going after N_T Katina displays a very odd use of meta - very different from the way she used in the past (LII: Jubjub Mafia where Katina fingers DocH based on meta with a clear difference between his town and mafia styles (when DocH is town his posting is much longer and doesn't attack other people)). Compare that to this game, where Katina uses meta against Nova_Terra (Nova_Terra is scum because he spams as mafia. Yet he does this both as town and mafia...) That's not a logical argument at all. Also everyone should look at the cases that Katina makes in that game and compare that to this game; there's a clear level of depth that's missing from anything she has posted here. This Game: Show nested quote +On May 27 2012 02:34 Katina wrote:
Okay first of all, I'm really tired of people (WBG) assuming I'm mafia because of my Meta I have said myself I have been busy. Stuff kept coming up this week, that's what happens when you have a "Life". I am sorry I couldn't be more active.
Secondly the two people I have been gunning for (N_T and Mattchew) are doing nothing but constantly bashing me. N_T is so focused on getting me lynched he is completely distracting himself from the forum. Mattchew is butt hurt because I got him to crack and stop using his quotes.
Third, I realize that Zealos claimed. I was fine lynching him as I stated in one of my posts before that. So me voting for someone I thought was scummy is considered Mafia? I love the logic behind that.
I apologize for not spewing out random votes and cluttering up the thread like a lot of you do. Everyone is so focused on me for stupid reasons when there are so many scummier people. Liar Game: Show nested quote +On May 16 2012 07:26 Katina wrote:On May 16 2012 03:04 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:On May 16 2012 00:10 Katina wrote:On May 15 2012 07:35 slOosh wrote:
Katina are you calling Meapak scum? Or misguided? How about prplhz? Not really. His reasons for thinking Palmar is innocent are silly. I don't actually think he's mafia but then again I have no idea who could be on Palmar's team other than Wiggles. Katina I'm sick of you half assing this game. Put in some goddamn effort and give us some ACTUAL reasons. I don't know, maybe write an analysis, maybe have more of a thread presence, maybe PM people and at least pretend like you're interested. After the cephiro flip I blew up all my reads and started over again and let me say this katina, it's foolishness's insistence that you're town which is preventing me right now from putting you in the majority and lynching you this cycle. Play the game. I have been sir. I do not mean to overstep your pride here. Let me say again that your reasons for thinking Palmar is innocent are silly. I don't say this in an accusatory way; it's the truth. I don't think you are mafia, but as I said I don't know who the last member on Palmar's team is (I think Wiggles is one of them). You said that Palmar is innocent because he has had the same reads as you from the start. That does not indicate anything about alignment. Palmar has wanted to kill sandroba and Cephiro (these are the two you listed). But everyone wants to kill those two. Also it makes the most sense that sandroba is the last member of BC's team. So Palmar isn't bussing one of his teammates. The most incriminating piece of evidence is that Palmar was virtually derping when syllogism was alive. That's cause syllogism was hard core pushing his innocence especially in PMs. I know Foolishness and wherebugsgo were both suspicious of Palmar but syllogism made it hard for them to push that read. That and there were more important targets at the time. If you look through Palmar's post history you will see he was most active day 1 and then in the previous days since syllogism's death. Palmar was using syllogism as an excuse to not do anything. With syllogism constantly pushing his innocence he did not have to try at all, either in the thread or PM. He has only stepped up his posting since syllogism died, whether he's stepped up in PM land or not I don't know. Even if you want to start pointing guns at me, you still need to explain why Palmar deserves a free pass. Cause this isn't about me, it's about Palmar. And like I said at least one person out of you, me, and Palmar has to be mafia. Unless you're going to claim mafia I'm not stopping until Palmar is dead. When attacked in previous games (for example Liar Game) Katina typically brings forth new thoughts and reads (She's very eager to elaborate her reads on Palmar and address the issues that other people bring up). In this game though, Katina just says that she was busy and repeats the same arguments that she's been giving the entire game without analyzing anything new. With such a big difference between her town play and her play this game and a general lack of good posting and reads, I think Katina is almost definitely scum. A fairly long well thought through post, making valid points based on meta across several games and applying them to the current game. Except it's scum Hiro making this post. Looking through his town games, they are more categorised by shorter posts, where ultimately Hiro is more involved in what's going on than he is here. I believe HiroPro is scum Seriously, that's your filter. If you want to discuss what you said about HiroPro, fine. But what you said was "leaning town" --> "dont' want to lynch him, but please write up a case because I agree on the weak presence" (to Palmar) --> "I believe HiroPro is scum" I will respond to the actual last post on HiroPro, I read it but I'll work through my own thoughts now. Just...look at that progression. You haven't been hammering on HiroPro. Your read went from townie to townie but I agree on weak presence to scum. And your entire Hiro argument SEEMS to be "I thought hiro was town because he was active, now I think he's lazy town and must be scum because he's active." Can you give more robust thoughts on Hiro, because I'll discuss what you've said but it ain't much. Yes, I meant specifically the last post. I don't know what else to say because I explained in that post why I shifted my reasoning. I had believed the effort he went to to search through previous games to make good meta arguments meant he was making good effort, which tends towards a townie read. Effectively, my read previously had been taking this game in isolation, and earlier I went back and went back and looked through a bunch of Hiro's games. That's why I posted that post from Mini Magic, and commented on his other town games. I'm just rehashing in longer version what I said in that post there. There aren't really that many 'robust' thoughts to give other than what I said. I said ealrier, as you mention that he seemed disconnected/weak presence, and going back through his games, it contradicts his meta. I guess...when I read that post, what I get is you saying - I was leaning Hiro because of "diligence" and "his arguments based on going back and finding meta" --> Hiro for effort
- I am now reversing that read, because Hiro is lazy and Hiro makes longer posts concerning meta
- I will now link one long post in which Hiro discussed Katina and her meta
- That post came from Hiro
- Looking at other games, Hiro posts short posts and is "more involved" than he is here
I dislike that post and I almost just throw it out. You looked at Hiro's past games. You gave us ONE quote from ONE game, and a blanket statement that Hiro in other games posts shorter and is more involved. Which is fine, but just understand that there's not really too much there other than some assertions about Hiro's meta that are almost certainly true, but based on size of posts. One reason you found Hiro townie eariler was his "well thought out points" and that his "thoughts have been unique this game and [you] like the way he thinks and agree with it much of the time." Does that still hold true? Does his meta trump that? I'd be more convinced by what's happening in game than a meta argument based on short/long posts and involvement. I don't see anything in that post about whether scum Hiro's points are well thought out, or about how you agree with scum Hiro's points but not town Hiro's points. Do you really want to lynch Hiro based on being disconnected and posting long posts? I know you are voting Ange, but are you scummy enough on Hiro because of the meta read that you have that you want to lynch him, despite liking the way he's thought and the points he's made?
Frankly, yes. His only scum game that wasn't his newbie game was that Magic Mini game. That was the only game of the others that I looked at that he used meta examples from across various games in a post of his. Actually in the post I quoted, he was bussing Katina (who, in that game, I thought correctly was scum on meta) and his points were all valid.
It's not that I disagree with townie Hiro points, but they are rarely as... carefully constructed as his posts here were. It reminds me of Bureaucracy a bit, where slOosh made several outwardly excellent posts, but he was 'disconnected' from the thread. I could dig up my post where I said that if you really wanted.
Other than that there's not a lot to do other than say "why don't you have a look at the games for yourself?". HiroPro is typically more involved in the thread as town, but it's pretty hard just to pull random snippets from other games that show this.
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Since Palmar mentioned we should not be ignoring our dead comrades.
On September 21 2012 05:59 Blazinghand wrote:
Bluelightz isn't scummy, he's Bluelightz. If you attack him, be prepared for non-responsiveness and random shitty defense posts at the last minute, whether he's town or scum.
Iamperfection is active and aggressive enough that I no longer consider him a top scumread. I've seen him play poorly before as town so this is reasonable to say.
My current list of people I'll be pressuring going into D1 if I'm alive (which I probably will be, unless something weird happens):
HiroPro
Mkfuba07
Ange777
Palmar
The first two because they're scum, the second two because they should be good scumhunters, better than they are this game
Also marv like ange and plam
peace
Here is one of the last things BH said. Not the most revealing but I will put it here as a reminder.
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On September 22 2012 01:16 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On September 22 2012 01:10 austinmcc wrote:On September 22 2012 01:00 marvellosity wrote:On September 22 2012 00:54 austinmcc wrote:However, I'll go look at hiropro. But...you haven't been as vocal on him as you think? Heres you on Hiro the last 20 hours or so... On September 21 2012 05:24 marvellosity wrote:
Hiro I'm leaning town on now. In his massive post whenever it was he brought up a load of well thought out points, including analysis and quotes from other games, such as prplhz sheeping Palmar, and my tendency to believe the scummy things I do point towards me being town. I also liked his assessment on how you were appearing apologetic. Basically I'm leaning town on him because many of his thoughts have been unique this game and I like the way he thinks and agree with it much of the time. The thing that stops me giving a firm read of town is that he's still more... detached from the thread than he might be.
On September 21 2012 05:38 marvellosity wrote:
he didn't 'explain' anything on his 2nd highest scumread, HiroPro. On September 21 2012 06:43 marvellosity wrote:On September 21 2012 06:42 Palmar wrote:
HiroPro.
Would you agree on lynching him?
I don't have the time to write up a case now, but because mostly of weak presence and strange things I've noticed about him. No, I don't want to lynch HiroPro for reasons I elaborated on shortly before the deadline. I do agree with you about the weak presence, though. Please write up a case as soon as you can this cycle as for obvious reasons it will affect my read on you. On September 21 2012 21:55 marvellosity wrote:I haven't got more to say on Ange right now, so I'd like to talk about HiroPro a bit. Earlier I've been leaning town because I was impressed with his diligence and his arguments based on going back and finding meta from previous games, which seemed 'townie for effort'. I'm pretty much reversing that read now. Actually Hiro as town is more categorised by laziness. His last scum game was a while ago (magic mini normal), but looking through his filter there I found this: + Show Spoiler +On May 27 2012 07:00 HiroPro wrote:Katina: Katina has hardly been posting in this game and when she does, she's maintained a singular focus on N_T and Matt. Show nested quote +On May 22 2012 07:25 Katina wrote:On May 22 2012 05:52 froggynoddy wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On May 22 2012 05:29 Tunkeg wrote:
Reads d1 of Day1
Acrofalis/Marvellosity:
Leaning town based on Acrofalis aggression while he was in game. He tried to get this game going, and tried to apply some pressure.
EchelonTee:
Leaning town. He went into a fight with Acrofalis from the get go, and haven't been afraid to stick his head out.
Zealos
Get some scumvibes off him. He started the game by voting VE as number two, without a good reason. He claims it to be a joke later (which it might be). He then proceeds to vote Acrofales based on ET's case, and because of meta, basicly sheeping ET. The rest of his filter seems very empty, even though he got more post than most in this game. Some townpoints for actually bother to answer questions.
Mattchew
He might be one of those I called out for not posting earlier, that is a scum. I don't know what he is trying to do, but if his postingstyle continues this way he will be disruptive townie at best, and sabotaging scum at worst. Leaning scum for now.
Nova_Terra
Leaning scum. He was active at the start, but unlike Acrofalis his attempts at pushing seems more forced, and with no real weight behind it. His whole postingstyle seems very non-commital and gives me scumvibes.
Also Navillus need to get in the thread and do some more. His vote on WBG is the only thing he have done. And it was done without much reasoning, and in my opinion strange reasoning.
PS: I know you guys don't like list. But I want to do lists so bare with me.
PS 2: This is not an analysis post. It is a read post. When I am ready to put my vote down on someone I will try to make a good case/analysis on them. Exception is if there is a great case on them that I agree with, then I will be open about sheeping it, and probably just add some of my own reasoning to it.
This list... serves no purpose other than making you look active. Town reads are worse than useless day 1 as 1. they are even weaker than day 1 scumreads and 2. points to scum who to kill to cause confusion. EDIT: There was more but WBG and Navillus covered it whilst I was writing + Show Spoiler +On May 22 2012 05:37 Navillus wrote:
Okaaay so my WBG vote was a joke, I do not actually think it's a good idea to lynch one of our 2 vets on that basis alone and I am not really of the opinion that advice is an automatic scum-tell, it'd be nice to have a little benefit of the doubt on me not being an idiot.
Next ##Unvote
##Vote: Mattchew
As far as I can tell he's just posting with flavor text from mtg cards, if that continues I don't really care if he's scum or town it makes him impossible to read, doesn't let him contribute, and makes for a really shitty atmosphere. Mattchew stop it.
On N_T yes VE and WBG I'd say he's using pretty bad method of scumhunting/analysis and his vote is for a dumb reason, but that doesn't make him scum and aside from clear-cut examples of someone being useless or disruptive (such as restricting their posts to text from a card game) it's a bad idea to lynch someone for bad play, in my experience it's rarely a scumtell and depending on how they're playing badly it can be more of a town tell.
Tunkeg you asked a bunch of questions earlier, most of them were ignored, was there any point to them? Why don't you care that people didn't answer you/why aren't you following up? Also why post that list, if you have scum reads why aren't you just pressuring them instead of telling them, and how does telling everyone your town-reads do anything but let scum know who you think is townie and so light them up as targets?
Holy spam batman! NT scum or town please stop with multiple one or two line posts in a row, it's distracting and makes the thread harder to read through, consolidate. How is voting for Mattchew due to his posting style (which you consider to be *Bad*) different to voting N_T based on bad play? I don't necessarily disagree with you I just think you're being a little inconsistent. Shoot I forgot to unvote as promised: ##Unvote
##Vote KatinaInactive players kill town. Katina, my vote stays on you until you make an appearance. I made an apperance earlier today. Do you not read over the thread my dear? On May 22 2012 03:27 Nova_Terra wrote:On May 22 2012 02:58 VisceraEyes wrote:On May 21 2012 21:17 Nova_Terra wrote:
Hey VE since you seem to want to ignore my challenge who do you wanna kill Hey Nova, since you seem to want to ignore my question to you (something that's actually USEFUL to this game, unlike your "challenge"), how about you actually answer it instead of trying to distract town with meaningless drivel? I'll even repost it for your convenience. On May 21 2012 08:56 VisceraEyes wrote:On May 21 2012 05:59 Nova_Terra wrote:On May 21 2012 05:27 wherebugsgo wrote:
Whether or not advice is good has nothing to do with the alignment of a player, just the same as making a plan, regardless of how good it is, is generally not indicative of alignment.
If the advice makes sense, follow it. If not, don't. The question of "is this guy scum" has nothing to do with that. I never said that it has anything to do with indicacating the alignment of the player,i said that general advice seems to be contributing but isnt really. and that its just as likely mister helpful is scum, etc. Your style has so far been laced with an air of giving advice to the other players - in what way is Bugs' post giving advice any different from, say, you warning that "players trying to give advice could be scum"? ooh i forgot about that Its different because its not all i've done and because i know im town and its not really different itself, but i was aware of the hypocrisy before i made teh post I would to bring attention to this lovely post. N_T might be the BM version 2! I say this because of his spam, oneliners, and the fact he seems to be refreshing the thread every 5 minutes. When BM is mafia he always over emphasizes that he is confirmed town. Such things are silly to say and provide no help to the town I will be setting my vote. ##Vote Nove_TerraBased on his fliter, he seems to more interesting in proving his innocence then trying to find the Mafia. Show nested quote +
Look at this link where N_T was mafia. Notice that he spams here.... and what is he doing this game?
...
...
Spam!
JubJub 2: Show nested quote +On March 23 2012 14:04 Katina wrote:DoctorHelvetica is mafia This is because throughout the game he has been inconsistent in his posting.He doesn't seem to have a focus at all. DrH has done a massive amount of finger pointing. His posts consist of spamming and calling people retards. DrH is inconsistent and pointing fingers a lot. Take a look at this post: On March 12 2012 07:09 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
Caller is trolling, mafia shouldn't be that scared of me to push me day 1 for no reason because I often back off my correct reads if I get distracted.
It's up to an individuals discretion whether or not they share who they are PMing with, policy lynching someone for not doing it is stupid. Also, town circles could be set up so that somebody can claim DT to someone they confirm and then use that person to broadcast their reads, or a tracker/watcher/etc. That can be useful. In that case the last thing you want is everyone saying who they are with.
Jackal58 is being a bit silly with what Wiggles and people like that are saying. His point is that scum know who town is and because of that they can cut down any circles that arise that they aren't directly involved in themselves. Especially it would be dangerous for someone to say "i'm pming with A B C and D" and then later come out and say "I'm PMing the DT and..." when say, B and C are dead or something. It's up to an individual to share their PM targets or not.
Gumshoe is posting a lot and very focused on town circles and such. For that reason, I'm voting for him. He has 2 pages of filter all completely disconnected from finding scum. The way you're probing Caller looks as though it would be helpful, but doesn't actually lead to anything. It's wishy washy, I feel like it's the kind of thing that scum would feel they can't ignore but don't want to commit to Caller if he's town. That'll satisfy me for now, it's pretty likely I'll come up with something better or that Gumshoe will just make himself look worse The last paragraph is important here. He says gumshow is suspicious and is going to vote for him. Yet 8 hours later he makes this post: On March 12 2012 15:12 DoctorHelvetica wrote:On March 12 2012 15:03 Bill Murray wrote:
@doctorh, what are the reasons you like from curu? I'm catching up, and I value your opinion. That is also why I am sort of sheeping you. You saw what I saw out of gumshoe, switched when that wagon wasn't going anywhere for some reason, and probably found a good one here.
I remember Caller's posting earlier on in the day being suspect. He came in like a bull, china flying everywhere, and the broken glass and debris are making it easy to see a case on him being valid.
tl;dr: catching up, asking questions, can see caller being scum Caller came in trolling then made his case when there was light pressure and it seems forced. I'm not totally sold on him at the moment because I feel like this is pretty much in line with the way he always acts but Curu does make a better case. I still think Caller is a better lynch than Jackal but I'm not confident enough to push it. Caller's case is based on, from what I can tell, misunderstanding of jackals post and then overstating the significance of it. Curu has a meta read that is at least accurate. Jaybrundage is one of those players who seems to me to be participating only in the surface discussion and making little effort to figure out what peoples motives are or hunt scum. His last few posts speak for themselves really. His confidence is a little bit out of place for a newer scum player though. I'm torn between Caller and jaybrundage right now. I'd be on prplhz in an instant if his logic wasn't equally terrible last time I played with him. I'm waiting for Pandain to come into play, he's awful so I'll know right away if he's scum or not. And now his focused has shifted to Caller and jaybrundage. And this is where his focused stayed for all of another 12 hours until he posts this: On March 13 2012 05:28 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
How does Caller thinking a scum would defend another scum make him scum? Maybe I'm not following your logic.
Jackal, roleclaiming was unnecessary. If there is no claim to the contrary I'll believe you. Dreamflower is a pretty specific role and I doubt there is more than one in this game as opposed to something like medic or veteran.
We need to reconsider the business surrounding prplhz. His play is poor but it's not particularly scummy and the attempt to pin someone as scum for making a similar case around the same timeframe is ridiculous and comes off to me as a hamfisted attempt by scum to start a bandwagon. The fact that it took makes me even more sure it's scum originated or backed.
Wiggles is the first to jump on it, doing nothing in the game besides talk about mechanics/town strategy (at great length) until this point I'm surprised his first attempt at hunting scum is so forced and illogical. The fact that prplhz made a case near the same time period is inconclusive, might perhaps implicate that he is town talking to curu or caller in PM but hardly mafiaesque.
Jitsu is the only one who voted for him and he's already been in the hotseat. This is the most alarming event in this thread to me. The Caller vs VE deal is really coming off to me like an ensuing tragedy of townie vs townie. And now he's dealing with Jackal and Wiggles and Jitsu. What is interesting is how quickly DrH jumps from one case to the next. He accuses and votes for gumshoe, yet never brings up the case again except where he says he's changing his vote. He moves his vote to Caller at one point before finalizing on Jitsu. Part of the problem here is that he never follows up on his reads. From here on out all he has are one liners and random posts, there is nothing more about his reads until he makes the following post: On March 14 2012 09:03 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
Node is suspicious. I'm leaning toward Node or Caller on day 2. I know Caller is a ballsy player but he comes off as way too phony. He makes a fake case on me then ditches it for a bad case on Jackal then goes back to attacking me? He's just playing disruptively.
Node's vote switch to Sheth is a joke. Not only was Jackal not gonna get lynched but I refuse to believe by the way he was posting that he put so little thought into the game as to waste a vote on somebody completely random (the only one that actually had excusable inactivity) like Sheth. This post came near the end of night 1 as well. Suddenly there is no more attention on Jitsu. He moves away from it just like he did with gumshoe. He makes the occasional one liner about him being mafia, but never pushes his case ever again. And on Day 2 he makes this post On March 15 2012 08:58 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
Kurumi is indefenseable at this point.
jaybrundage, you play like scummy shit all game then start demanding role claims from everyone. Stop doing that. If you're town, it's stupid and unhelpful.
With Kurumi gone, we need to shoot prplhz tonight or lynch him tomorrow. He's been on Jackal and didn't react to Jackal's claim but despite this obvious fakery from Kurumi, he chooses to ignore it then go after me. He is aggressive then immediately backs off and acts like he was just messin around. What a joke.
Curu straight up lies about things I say, he at least has the good sense to vote for Kurumi.
I'm not pushing Caller anymore, his claim seems to be legit and like I said I lost some confidence in him as the day went on and moved toward Jitsu (who is also misrepresenting me). It isn't scummy for a player to change their mind and it isn't my priority to tell the town about every change of thought or thing I think, otherwise I'd end up spamming the thread. If you're that interested in my thought process, just PM me, I'm not going to clutter the thread with that shit.
kurumi, prplhz, curu that's my best guess. Abenson, rgTheSchworz, Sentinel, probably scum or traitor between those 3. Dunno about Palmar. His play seems pro-town but I know he's good. If he's town this game is probably in the bag, if it's scum it's over since it seems a town circle has been built around him.
Nobody has PM'd me in this game yet, which surprises me a little. and Jitsu isn't even on his mafia list. Furthermore he only lists Curu as scum because Curu was being a JubJub. DrH should know better than most that idiocy =/= Mafia. Yet he puts Curu on his mafia list, but removes him later on the account that Curu started making more sense. DrH is known to second guess himself more than anyone else. He even admits to it. The problem is is that he is not second guessing himself. He makes a case against someone, then immediately drops it and never returns to it. He simply has no focus. His agenda is in correspondence with a mafia. He accuses lots of people to insinuate the doubt. He tries to make everyone look bad so nobody is in the clear. Then when a mafia gets lynched he can immediately defend himself by saying he was onto them. Someone said that DrH pushed for the Kurumi lynch so therefore he is in the clear. However if you observe the day 2 votes you will notice that it's very likely the mafia team was on Kurumi the whole time. Bill Murray has gotten a town check, the only remaining players not on Kurumi are myself and EchelonTee. So he is not immediately in the clear because of the Kurumi lynch. In fact the majority of his posts about Kurumi entail things like this post: On March 16 2012 04:48 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
This thread is in fucking chaos and if this keeps up we will continue having no lynches for the rest of the game. Is everyone this terrible? I can't believe Kurumi is actually going to get away with straight up faking his role and doing nothing but trolling and trying to find the traitor all game.
I also can't believe that Curu making shit up to try to get Jackal killed and him and his scumbuddy prplhz trying to get a town suicide vig to shoot at night (benefits scum) ONLY seems odd to me. This is far and away the most embarrassing town performance I've ever seen.
You're an idiot if you don't vote for Kurumi. Caller is saying to vote for me because I flip flop and "only talk about the set-up". That's a bald faced lie, the majority of my posts are about scum or pressure and I'm WELL KNOWN to flip-flop and second guess myself constantly as town such as in AC where I changed my vote like ten times in the first day. In fact, if anything, the fact that I haven't changed my vote a million times makes me look bad. I don't even know what Katina is doing but she has no sense of meta and seems to be completely missing the obvious.
Caller is the dayvig, he confirmed it as far as I can tell so unless he somehow faked shooting Node, why would anyone vote for him? Scum have their powers in that KP cost thing it says so in the setup ...
So what Kurumi did is too scummy to be scummy? Congratulations, you've failed the most basic fucking trap of bad townie logic now never sign up for another game again you retarded jubjubs His posts about Kurumi are much like this one: "vote Kurumi or else you retard!" His only reason for voting Kurumi is that Kurumi scum slipped. No analysis or anything. Vote Kurumi or you're retarded. If this is what scumhunting is than Palmar should be the reigning champion. Even more proof of his inconsistency can be found if you click his filter and search for my name. Multiple times he lists me as mafia yet he has never hard pushed for me or giving reasons why I need to be lynched. In one post he says, "katina has called me out for stupid reasons but I'm not saying she looks like shit for "tunneling a townie" because my alignment isn't confirmed." This is interesting because when I first accused him he agreed with the arguments that I was making. He even acknowledged that he was jumping all over the place on his reads. As I said before, he's not second guessing himself. He is mafia and is casting doubt upon all the players. He has done a fabulous job of accusing everyone so when someone flips mafia he can say that he was suspicious of said person. Even if he was on Caller and Kurumi, he hasn't done anything recently besides cast more doubt on the remaining players. He has pushed for Jay to get lynched, but the majority of his accusations can be summarized with "Jay is retarded, let's kill him". This leads into the obvious fact that DrH is acting nothing like he does when he is town. This is evident from his past games. Look at one of his posts from Storm Mafia: On February 23 2012 09:08 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
I didn't sheep anybody. I made my case on BC well before I even read syllogisms original post. You're connecting points I'm making in specific reference to other peoples posts to unrelated ideas. I was trying to illustrate that the wagon forming quickly doesn't mean much. The scum don't need to defend redFF if they can get somebody else lynched.
I don't think my posts are wishy washy. I wasn't yelling in the thread for one person to get lynched over any other, but that can't really be defined as wishy washiness. I wasn't planning on rebutting the case on redFF because I never ever thought it needed to be rebutted. I voted for redFF in the end. I moved my vote to BC to put pressure on him and make sure he stays active in the thread, his responses satisfied me enough that I wanted to stick with my original convictions and give BC Day 2 to prove himself. Needless to say I'll be keeping a close eye on him.
Calling BC the alternative lynch is a non-point since his flip, or lack thereof, was inconclusive. You don't know whether or not he is scum, unless you are scum, so implying that it is a defensive alternative makes no sense as town especially considering redFF is the person I voted for.
I never called RedFF not scum. I never called him 100% scum. I said very clearly RedFF is likely scum or terrible town but his claim is poorly done and seems defensive. I was more than okay with the RedFF lynch, which seemed so likely to go through at the time I switched to BC to pressure another player I was suspicious of. Seeing as RedFF has been AWOL during this entire period, I feel I made the right choice. If I didn't think RedFF was very suspect, I would have been far more vocal in trying to get people to join a BC bandwagon but you will notice I did no such thing as far as I can recall anyway. That's as much as I'll say in the interest of defending myself.
This redFF "flip", or whatever it is, is inconclusive and I don't feel it necessary to comment on it further. I'll read filters when I have the time. Notice how he is very direct in explaining his actions about where his vote and suspicion lies. There isn't a single post he's made in this game that can be mirrored with a typical post from that game. He hasn't done any explaining this game. He only focuses on the present and fails to address his past behavior. And the few times people have brought up this fact his response has been "well I always second guess myself trolol" Put simply, he is not taking responsibility for his actions. It's also interesting to note how calm and collected he has been in the past when he is town. The above post is typical in showing is behavior when analyzing and addressing issues. Of course we know him to have a temper from time to time, as we all do whenever we are in a game with VE. However this game he has done nothing but call people retarded over and over again. This attitude is a bit reminiscent of wherebugsgo when he is mafia. I can understand being frustrated with the game (considering I have Jay riding my ass constantly), but the level of his insults coming from DrH is not only out of character, but completely unnatural. I would also like to mention that this game DrH has an absurd amount of one liners and small posts. A quick glance through Storm Mafia and Arkham City show that his posting length this game is also not in sync with his normal town play. When DrH is town, he is not afraid to write paragraphs upon paragraphs detailing his thoughts. This game we have one liners about how small our IQ is.
SummaryDrH has been playing completely out of character from his typical town play. He hasn't been focused, anormous finger pointing, one liners and insults. His posts have been inconsistent and bringing confusion into the thread. He has not been responsible this game and he needs to be held accountable for it. DrH is mafia
##Vote DoctorHelvetica In this game, when going after N_T Katina displays a very odd use of meta - very different from the way she used in the past (LII: Jubjub Mafia where Katina fingers DocH based on meta with a clear difference between his town and mafia styles (when DocH is town his posting is much longer and doesn't attack other people)). Compare that to this game, where Katina uses meta against Nova_Terra (Nova_Terra is scum because he spams as mafia. Yet he does this both as town and mafia...) That's not a logical argument at all. Also everyone should look at the cases that Katina makes in that game and compare that to this game; there's a clear level of depth that's missing from anything she has posted here. This Game: Show nested quote +On May 27 2012 02:34 Katina wrote:
Okay first of all, I'm really tired of people (WBG) assuming I'm mafia because of my Meta I have said myself I have been busy. Stuff kept coming up this week, that's what happens when you have a "Life". I am sorry I couldn't be more active.
Secondly the two people I have been gunning for (N_T and Mattchew) are doing nothing but constantly bashing me. N_T is so focused on getting me lynched he is completely distracting himself from the forum. Mattchew is butt hurt because I got him to crack and stop using his quotes.
Third, I realize that Zealos claimed. I was fine lynching him as I stated in one of my posts before that. So me voting for someone I thought was scummy is considered Mafia? I love the logic behind that.
I apologize for not spewing out random votes and cluttering up the thread like a lot of you do. Everyone is so focused on me for stupid reasons when there are so many scummier people. Liar Game: Show nested quote +On May 16 2012 07:26 Katina wrote:On May 16 2012 03:04 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:On May 16 2012 00:10 Katina wrote:On May 15 2012 07:35 slOosh wrote:
Katina are you calling Meapak scum? Or misguided? How about prplhz? Not really. His reasons for thinking Palmar is innocent are silly. I don't actually think he's mafia but then again I have no idea who could be on Palmar's team other than Wiggles. Katina I'm sick of you half assing this game. Put in some goddamn effort and give us some ACTUAL reasons. I don't know, maybe write an analysis, maybe have more of a thread presence, maybe PM people and at least pretend like you're interested. After the cephiro flip I blew up all my reads and started over again and let me say this katina, it's foolishness's insistence that you're town which is preventing me right now from putting you in the majority and lynching you this cycle. Play the game. I have been sir. I do not mean to overstep your pride here. Let me say again that your reasons for thinking Palmar is innocent are silly. I don't say this in an accusatory way; it's the truth. I don't think you are mafia, but as I said I don't know who the last member on Palmar's team is (I think Wiggles is one of them). You said that Palmar is innocent because he has had the same reads as you from the start. That does not indicate anything about alignment. Palmar has wanted to kill sandroba and Cephiro (these are the two you listed). But everyone wants to kill those two. Also it makes the most sense that sandroba is the last member of BC's team. So Palmar isn't bussing one of his teammates. The most incriminating piece of evidence is that Palmar was virtually derping when syllogism was alive. That's cause syllogism was hard core pushing his innocence especially in PMs. I know Foolishness and wherebugsgo were both suspicious of Palmar but syllogism made it hard for them to push that read. That and there were more important targets at the time. If you look through Palmar's post history you will see he was most active day 1 and then in the previous days since syllogism's death. Palmar was using syllogism as an excuse to not do anything. With syllogism constantly pushing his innocence he did not have to try at all, either in the thread or PM. He has only stepped up his posting since syllogism died, whether he's stepped up in PM land or not I don't know. Even if you want to start pointing guns at me, you still need to explain why Palmar deserves a free pass. Cause this isn't about me, it's about Palmar. And like I said at least one person out of you, me, and Palmar has to be mafia. Unless you're going to claim mafia I'm not stopping until Palmar is dead. When attacked in previous games (for example Liar Game) Katina typically brings forth new thoughts and reads (She's very eager to elaborate her reads on Palmar and address the issues that other people bring up). In this game though, Katina just says that she was busy and repeats the same arguments that she's been giving the entire game without analyzing anything new. With such a big difference between her town play and her play this game and a general lack of good posting and reads, I think Katina is almost definitely scum. A fairly long well thought through post, making valid points based on meta across several games and applying them to the current game. Except it's scum Hiro making this post. Looking through his town games, they are more categorised by shorter posts, where ultimately Hiro is more involved in what's going on than he is here. I believe HiroPro is scum Seriously, that's your filter. If you want to discuss what you said about HiroPro, fine. But what you said was "leaning town" --> "dont' want to lynch him, but please write up a case because I agree on the weak presence" (to Palmar) --> "I believe HiroPro is scum" I will respond to the actual last post on HiroPro, I read it but I'll work through my own thoughts now. Just...look at that progression. You haven't been hammering on HiroPro. Your read went from townie to townie but I agree on weak presence to scum. And your entire Hiro argument SEEMS to be "I thought hiro was town because he was active, now I think he's lazy town and must be scum because he's active." Can you give more robust thoughts on Hiro, because I'll discuss what you've said but it ain't much. Yes, I meant specifically the last post. I don't know what else to say because I explained in that post why I shifted my reasoning. I had believed the effort he went to to search through previous games to make good meta arguments meant he was making good effort, which tends towards a townie read. Effectively, my read previously had been taking this game in isolation, and earlier I went back and went back and looked through a bunch of Hiro's games. That's why I posted that post from Mini Magic, and commented on his other town games. I'm just rehashing in longer version what I said in that post there. There aren't really that many 'robust' thoughts to give other than what I said. I said ealrier, as you mention that he seemed disconnected/weak presence, and going back through his games, it contradicts his meta. I guess...when I read that post, what I get is you saying - I was leaning Hiro because of "diligence" and "his arguments based on going back and finding meta" --> Hiro for effort
- I am now reversing that read, because Hiro is lazy and Hiro makes longer posts concerning meta
- I will now link one long post in which Hiro discussed Katina and her meta
- That post came from Hiro
- Looking at other games, Hiro posts short posts and is "more involved" than he is here
I dislike that post and I almost just throw it out. You looked at Hiro's past games. You gave us ONE quote from ONE game, and a blanket statement that Hiro in other games posts shorter and is more involved. Which is fine, but just understand that there's not really too much there other than some assertions about Hiro's meta that are almost certainly true, but based on size of posts. One reason you found Hiro townie eariler was his "well thought out points" and that his "thoughts have been unique this game and [you] like the way he thinks and agree with it much of the time." Does that still hold true? Does his meta trump that? I'd be more convinced by what's happening in game than a meta argument based on short/long posts and involvement. I don't see anything in that post about whether scum Hiro's points are well thought out, or about how you agree with scum Hiro's points but not town Hiro's points. Do you really want to lynch Hiro based on being disconnected and posting long posts? I know you are voting Ange, but are you scummy enough on Hiro because of the meta read that you have that you want to lynch him, despite liking the way he's thought and the points he's made? Frankly, yes. His only scum game that wasn't his newbie game was that Magic Mini game. That was the only game of the others that I looked at that he used meta examples from across various games in a post of his. Actually in the post I quoted, he was bussing Katina (who, in that game, I thought correctly was scum on meta) and his points were all valid. It's not that I disagree with townie Hiro points, but they are rarely as... carefully constructed as his posts here were. It reminds me of Bureaucracy a bit, where slOosh made several outwardly excellent posts, but he was 'disconnected' from the thread. I could dig up my post where I said that if you really wanted. Other than that there's not a lot to do other than say "why don't you have a look at the games for yourself?". HiroPro is typically more involved in the thread as town, but it's pretty hard just to pull random snippets from other games that show this.
Okay, that's fine. Didn't realize he'd only been scum once. No worries on the bureaucracy comparison. If that's all that can be said about him, though, then it's difficult for us to discuss your read on him. The most we could do is get to the same point, "Geez, his activity and the size of his posts doesn't look the same as townHiro." I'd rather have evidence from inside this game to lynch on than something as fuzzy as that.
Coming full circle though...you should still knock it off with Palmar. I've read your stuff. There's just nothing we can really DO with HiroPro though based on your post, because while it may look wrong it's not lynchably wrong (at least for me). If there's not a robust history, then looking through his meta, especially for things like post size and involvement, doesn't get us too much compared to someone that DOES have a decent number of games of both alignments. I'll give Hiro's conduct THIS game some more attention later this cycle.
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On September 22 2012 01:26 austinmcc wrote:Show nested quote +On September 22 2012 01:16 marvellosity wrote:On September 22 2012 01:10 austinmcc wrote:On September 22 2012 01:00 marvellosity wrote:On September 22 2012 00:54 austinmcc wrote:However, I'll go look at hiropro. But...you haven't been as vocal on him as you think? Heres you on Hiro the last 20 hours or so... On September 21 2012 05:24 marvellosity wrote:
Hiro I'm leaning town on now. In his massive post whenever it was he brought up a load of well thought out points, including analysis and quotes from other games, such as prplhz sheeping Palmar, and my tendency to believe the scummy things I do point towards me being town. I also liked his assessment on how you were appearing apologetic. Basically I'm leaning town on him because many of his thoughts have been unique this game and I like the way he thinks and agree with it much of the time. The thing that stops me giving a firm read of town is that he's still more... detached from the thread than he might be.
On September 21 2012 05:38 marvellosity wrote:
he didn't 'explain' anything on his 2nd highest scumread, HiroPro. On September 21 2012 06:43 marvellosity wrote:On September 21 2012 06:42 Palmar wrote:
HiroPro.
Would you agree on lynching him?
I don't have the time to write up a case now, but because mostly of weak presence and strange things I've noticed about him. No, I don't want to lynch HiroPro for reasons I elaborated on shortly before the deadline. I do agree with you about the weak presence, though. Please write up a case as soon as you can this cycle as for obvious reasons it will affect my read on you. On September 21 2012 21:55 marvellosity wrote:I haven't got more to say on Ange right now, so I'd like to talk about HiroPro a bit. Earlier I've been leaning town because I was impressed with his diligence and his arguments based on going back and finding meta from previous games, which seemed 'townie for effort'. I'm pretty much reversing that read now. Actually Hiro as town is more categorised by laziness. His last scum game was a while ago (magic mini normal), but looking through his filter there I found this: + Show Spoiler +On May 27 2012 07:00 HiroPro wrote:Katina: Katina has hardly been posting in this game and when she does, she's maintained a singular focus on N_T and Matt. Show nested quote +On May 22 2012 07:25 Katina wrote:On May 22 2012 05:52 froggynoddy wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On May 22 2012 05:29 Tunkeg wrote:
Reads d1 of Day1
Acrofalis/Marvellosity:
Leaning town based on Acrofalis aggression while he was in game. He tried to get this game going, and tried to apply some pressure.
EchelonTee:
Leaning town. He went into a fight with Acrofalis from the get go, and haven't been afraid to stick his head out.
Zealos
Get some scumvibes off him. He started the game by voting VE as number two, without a good reason. He claims it to be a joke later (which it might be). He then proceeds to vote Acrofales based on ET's case, and because of meta, basicly sheeping ET. The rest of his filter seems very empty, even though he got more post than most in this game. Some townpoints for actually bother to answer questions.
Mattchew
He might be one of those I called out for not posting earlier, that is a scum. I don't know what he is trying to do, but if his postingstyle continues this way he will be disruptive townie at best, and sabotaging scum at worst. Leaning scum for now.
Nova_Terra
Leaning scum. He was active at the start, but unlike Acrofalis his attempts at pushing seems more forced, and with no real weight behind it. His whole postingstyle seems very non-commital and gives me scumvibes.
Also Navillus need to get in the thread and do some more. His vote on WBG is the only thing he have done. And it was done without much reasoning, and in my opinion strange reasoning.
PS: I know you guys don't like list. But I want to do lists so bare with me.
PS 2: This is not an analysis post. It is a read post. When I am ready to put my vote down on someone I will try to make a good case/analysis on them. Exception is if there is a great case on them that I agree with, then I will be open about sheeping it, and probably just add some of my own reasoning to it.
This list... serves no purpose other than making you look active. Town reads are worse than useless day 1 as 1. they are even weaker than day 1 scumreads and 2. points to scum who to kill to cause confusion. EDIT: There was more but WBG and Navillus covered it whilst I was writing + Show Spoiler +On May 22 2012 05:37 Navillus wrote:
Okaaay so my WBG vote was a joke, I do not actually think it's a good idea to lynch one of our 2 vets on that basis alone and I am not really of the opinion that advice is an automatic scum-tell, it'd be nice to have a little benefit of the doubt on me not being an idiot.
Next ##Unvote
##Vote: Mattchew
As far as I can tell he's just posting with flavor text from mtg cards, if that continues I don't really care if he's scum or town it makes him impossible to read, doesn't let him contribute, and makes for a really shitty atmosphere. Mattchew stop it.
On N_T yes VE and WBG I'd say he's using pretty bad method of scumhunting/analysis and his vote is for a dumb reason, but that doesn't make him scum and aside from clear-cut examples of someone being useless or disruptive (such as restricting their posts to text from a card game) it's a bad idea to lynch someone for bad play, in my experience it's rarely a scumtell and depending on how they're playing badly it can be more of a town tell.
Tunkeg you asked a bunch of questions earlier, most of them were ignored, was there any point to them? Why don't you care that people didn't answer you/why aren't you following up? Also why post that list, if you have scum reads why aren't you just pressuring them instead of telling them, and how does telling everyone your town-reads do anything but let scum know who you think is townie and so light them up as targets?
Holy spam batman! NT scum or town please stop with multiple one or two line posts in a row, it's distracting and makes the thread harder to read through, consolidate. How is voting for Mattchew due to his posting style (which you consider to be *Bad*) different to voting N_T based on bad play? I don't necessarily disagree with you I just think you're being a little inconsistent. Shoot I forgot to unvote as promised: ##Unvote
##Vote KatinaInactive players kill town. Katina, my vote stays on you until you make an appearance. I made an apperance earlier today. Do you not read over the thread my dear? On May 22 2012 03:27 Nova_Terra wrote:On May 22 2012 02:58 VisceraEyes wrote:On May 21 2012 21:17 Nova_Terra wrote:
Hey VE since you seem to want to ignore my challenge who do you wanna kill Hey Nova, since you seem to want to ignore my question to you (something that's actually USEFUL to this game, unlike your "challenge"), how about you actually answer it instead of trying to distract town with meaningless drivel? I'll even repost it for your convenience. On May 21 2012 08:56 VisceraEyes wrote:On May 21 2012 05:59 Nova_Terra wrote:On May 21 2012 05:27 wherebugsgo wrote:
Whether or not advice is good has nothing to do with the alignment of a player, just the same as making a plan, regardless of how good it is, is generally not indicative of alignment.
If the advice makes sense, follow it. If not, don't. The question of "is this guy scum" has nothing to do with that. I never said that it has anything to do with indicacating the alignment of the player,i said that general advice seems to be contributing but isnt really. and that its just as likely mister helpful is scum, etc. Your style has so far been laced with an air of giving advice to the other players - in what way is Bugs' post giving advice any different from, say, you warning that "players trying to give advice could be scum"? ooh i forgot about that Its different because its not all i've done and because i know im town and its not really different itself, but i was aware of the hypocrisy before i made teh post I would to bring attention to this lovely post. N_T might be the BM version 2! I say this because of his spam, oneliners, and the fact he seems to be refreshing the thread every 5 minutes. When BM is mafia he always over emphasizes that he is confirmed town. Such things are silly to say and provide no help to the town I will be setting my vote. ##Vote Nove_TerraBased on his fliter, he seems to more interesting in proving his innocence then trying to find the Mafia. Show nested quote +
Look at this link where N_T was mafia. Notice that he spams here.... and what is he doing this game?
...
...
Spam!
JubJub 2: Show nested quote +On March 23 2012 14:04 Katina wrote:DoctorHelvetica is mafia This is because throughout the game he has been inconsistent in his posting.He doesn't seem to have a focus at all. DrH has done a massive amount of finger pointing. His posts consist of spamming and calling people retards. DrH is inconsistent and pointing fingers a lot. Take a look at this post: On March 12 2012 07:09 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
Caller is trolling, mafia shouldn't be that scared of me to push me day 1 for no reason because I often back off my correct reads if I get distracted.
It's up to an individuals discretion whether or not they share who they are PMing with, policy lynching someone for not doing it is stupid. Also, town circles could be set up so that somebody can claim DT to someone they confirm and then use that person to broadcast their reads, or a tracker/watcher/etc. That can be useful. In that case the last thing you want is everyone saying who they are with.
Jackal58 is being a bit silly with what Wiggles and people like that are saying. His point is that scum know who town is and because of that they can cut down any circles that arise that they aren't directly involved in themselves. Especially it would be dangerous for someone to say "i'm pming with A B C and D" and then later come out and say "I'm PMing the DT and..." when say, B and C are dead or something. It's up to an individual to share their PM targets or not.
Gumshoe is posting a lot and very focused on town circles and such. For that reason, I'm voting for him. He has 2 pages of filter all completely disconnected from finding scum. The way you're probing Caller looks as though it would be helpful, but doesn't actually lead to anything. It's wishy washy, I feel like it's the kind of thing that scum would feel they can't ignore but don't want to commit to Caller if he's town. That'll satisfy me for now, it's pretty likely I'll come up with something better or that Gumshoe will just make himself look worse The last paragraph is important here. He says gumshow is suspicious and is going to vote for him. Yet 8 hours later he makes this post: On March 12 2012 15:12 DoctorHelvetica wrote:On March 12 2012 15:03 Bill Murray wrote:
@doctorh, what are the reasons you like from curu? I'm catching up, and I value your opinion. That is also why I am sort of sheeping you. You saw what I saw out of gumshoe, switched when that wagon wasn't going anywhere for some reason, and probably found a good one here.
I remember Caller's posting earlier on in the day being suspect. He came in like a bull, china flying everywhere, and the broken glass and debris are making it easy to see a case on him being valid.
tl;dr: catching up, asking questions, can see caller being scum Caller came in trolling then made his case when there was light pressure and it seems forced. I'm not totally sold on him at the moment because I feel like this is pretty much in line with the way he always acts but Curu does make a better case. I still think Caller is a better lynch than Jackal but I'm not confident enough to push it. Caller's case is based on, from what I can tell, misunderstanding of jackals post and then overstating the significance of it. Curu has a meta read that is at least accurate. Jaybrundage is one of those players who seems to me to be participating only in the surface discussion and making little effort to figure out what peoples motives are or hunt scum. His last few posts speak for themselves really. His confidence is a little bit out of place for a newer scum player though. I'm torn between Caller and jaybrundage right now. I'd be on prplhz in an instant if his logic wasn't equally terrible last time I played with him. I'm waiting for Pandain to come into play, he's awful so I'll know right away if he's scum or not. And now his focused has shifted to Caller and jaybrundage. And this is where his focused stayed for all of another 12 hours until he posts this: On March 13 2012 05:28 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
How does Caller thinking a scum would defend another scum make him scum? Maybe I'm not following your logic.
Jackal, roleclaiming was unnecessary. If there is no claim to the contrary I'll believe you. Dreamflower is a pretty specific role and I doubt there is more than one in this game as opposed to something like medic or veteran.
We need to reconsider the business surrounding prplhz. His play is poor but it's not particularly scummy and the attempt to pin someone as scum for making a similar case around the same timeframe is ridiculous and comes off to me as a hamfisted attempt by scum to start a bandwagon. The fact that it took makes me even more sure it's scum originated or backed.
Wiggles is the first to jump on it, doing nothing in the game besides talk about mechanics/town strategy (at great length) until this point I'm surprised his first attempt at hunting scum is so forced and illogical. The fact that prplhz made a case near the same time period is inconclusive, might perhaps implicate that he is town talking to curu or caller in PM but hardly mafiaesque.
Jitsu is the only one who voted for him and he's already been in the hotseat. This is the most alarming event in this thread to me. The Caller vs VE deal is really coming off to me like an ensuing tragedy of townie vs townie. And now he's dealing with Jackal and Wiggles and Jitsu. What is interesting is how quickly DrH jumps from one case to the next. He accuses and votes for gumshoe, yet never brings up the case again except where he says he's changing his vote. He moves his vote to Caller at one point before finalizing on Jitsu. Part of the problem here is that he never follows up on his reads. From here on out all he has are one liners and random posts, there is nothing more about his reads until he makes the following post: On March 14 2012 09:03 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
Node is suspicious. I'm leaning toward Node or Caller on day 2. I know Caller is a ballsy player but he comes off as way too phony. He makes a fake case on me then ditches it for a bad case on Jackal then goes back to attacking me? He's just playing disruptively.
Node's vote switch to Sheth is a joke. Not only was Jackal not gonna get lynched but I refuse to believe by the way he was posting that he put so little thought into the game as to waste a vote on somebody completely random (the only one that actually had excusable inactivity) like Sheth. This post came near the end of night 1 as well. Suddenly there is no more attention on Jitsu. He moves away from it just like he did with gumshoe. He makes the occasional one liner about him being mafia, but never pushes his case ever again. And on Day 2 he makes this post On March 15 2012 08:58 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
Kurumi is indefenseable at this point.
jaybrundage, you play like scummy shit all game then start demanding role claims from everyone. Stop doing that. If you're town, it's stupid and unhelpful.
With Kurumi gone, we need to shoot prplhz tonight or lynch him tomorrow. He's been on Jackal and didn't react to Jackal's claim but despite this obvious fakery from Kurumi, he chooses to ignore it then go after me. He is aggressive then immediately backs off and acts like he was just messin around. What a joke.
Curu straight up lies about things I say, he at least has the good sense to vote for Kurumi.
I'm not pushing Caller anymore, his claim seems to be legit and like I said I lost some confidence in him as the day went on and moved toward Jitsu (who is also misrepresenting me). It isn't scummy for a player to change their mind and it isn't my priority to tell the town about every change of thought or thing I think, otherwise I'd end up spamming the thread. If you're that interested in my thought process, just PM me, I'm not going to clutter the thread with that shit.
kurumi, prplhz, curu that's my best guess. Abenson, rgTheSchworz, Sentinel, probably scum or traitor between those 3. Dunno about Palmar. His play seems pro-town but I know he's good. If he's town this game is probably in the bag, if it's scum it's over since it seems a town circle has been built around him.
Nobody has PM'd me in this game yet, which surprises me a little. and Jitsu isn't even on his mafia list. Furthermore he only lists Curu as scum because Curu was being a JubJub. DrH should know better than most that idiocy =/= Mafia. Yet he puts Curu on his mafia list, but removes him later on the account that Curu started making more sense. DrH is known to second guess himself more than anyone else. He even admits to it. The problem is is that he is not second guessing himself. He makes a case against someone, then immediately drops it and never returns to it. He simply has no focus. His agenda is in correspondence with a mafia. He accuses lots of people to insinuate the doubt. He tries to make everyone look bad so nobody is in the clear. Then when a mafia gets lynched he can immediately defend himself by saying he was onto them. Someone said that DrH pushed for the Kurumi lynch so therefore he is in the clear. However if you observe the day 2 votes you will notice that it's very likely the mafia team was on Kurumi the whole time. Bill Murray has gotten a town check, the only remaining players not on Kurumi are myself and EchelonTee. So he is not immediately in the clear because of the Kurumi lynch. In fact the majority of his posts about Kurumi entail things like this post: On March 16 2012 04:48 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
This thread is in fucking chaos and if this keeps up we will continue having no lynches for the rest of the game. Is everyone this terrible? I can't believe Kurumi is actually going to get away with straight up faking his role and doing nothing but trolling and trying to find the traitor all game.
I also can't believe that Curu making shit up to try to get Jackal killed and him and his scumbuddy prplhz trying to get a town suicide vig to shoot at night (benefits scum) ONLY seems odd to me. This is far and away the most embarrassing town performance I've ever seen.
You're an idiot if you don't vote for Kurumi. Caller is saying to vote for me because I flip flop and "only talk about the set-up". That's a bald faced lie, the majority of my posts are about scum or pressure and I'm WELL KNOWN to flip-flop and second guess myself constantly as town such as in AC where I changed my vote like ten times in the first day. In fact, if anything, the fact that I haven't changed my vote a million times makes me look bad. I don't even know what Katina is doing but she has no sense of meta and seems to be completely missing the obvious.
Caller is the dayvig, he confirmed it as far as I can tell so unless he somehow faked shooting Node, why would anyone vote for him? Scum have their powers in that KP cost thing it says so in the setup ...
So what Kurumi did is too scummy to be scummy? Congratulations, you've failed the most basic fucking trap of bad townie logic now never sign up for another game again you retarded jubjubs His posts about Kurumi are much like this one: "vote Kurumi or else you retard!" His only reason for voting Kurumi is that Kurumi scum slipped. No analysis or anything. Vote Kurumi or you're retarded. If this is what scumhunting is than Palmar should be the reigning champion. Even more proof of his inconsistency can be found if you click his filter and search for my name. Multiple times he lists me as mafia yet he has never hard pushed for me or giving reasons why I need to be lynched. In one post he says, "katina has called me out for stupid reasons but I'm not saying she looks like shit for "tunneling a townie" because my alignment isn't confirmed." This is interesting because when I first accused him he agreed with the arguments that I was making. He even acknowledged that he was jumping all over the place on his reads. As I said before, he's not second guessing himself. He is mafia and is casting doubt upon all the players. He has done a fabulous job of accusing everyone so when someone flips mafia he can say that he was suspicious of said person. Even if he was on Caller and Kurumi, he hasn't done anything recently besides cast more doubt on the remaining players. He has pushed for Jay to get lynched, but the majority of his accusations can be summarized with "Jay is retarded, let's kill him". This leads into the obvious fact that DrH is acting nothing like he does when he is town. This is evident from his past games. Look at one of his posts from Storm Mafia: On February 23 2012 09:08 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
I didn't sheep anybody. I made my case on BC well before I even read syllogisms original post. You're connecting points I'm making in specific reference to other peoples posts to unrelated ideas. I was trying to illustrate that the wagon forming quickly doesn't mean much. The scum don't need to defend redFF if they can get somebody else lynched.
I don't think my posts are wishy washy. I wasn't yelling in the thread for one person to get lynched over any other, but that can't really be defined as wishy washiness. I wasn't planning on rebutting the case on redFF because I never ever thought it needed to be rebutted. I voted for redFF in the end. I moved my vote to BC to put pressure on him and make sure he stays active in the thread, his responses satisfied me enough that I wanted to stick with my original convictions and give BC Day 2 to prove himself. Needless to say I'll be keeping a close eye on him.
Calling BC the alternative lynch is a non-point since his flip, or lack thereof, was inconclusive. You don't know whether or not he is scum, unless you are scum, so implying that it is a defensive alternative makes no sense as town especially considering redFF is the person I voted for.
I never called RedFF not scum. I never called him 100% scum. I said very clearly RedFF is likely scum or terrible town but his claim is poorly done and seems defensive. I was more than okay with the RedFF lynch, which seemed so likely to go through at the time I switched to BC to pressure another player I was suspicious of. Seeing as RedFF has been AWOL during this entire period, I feel I made the right choice. If I didn't think RedFF was very suspect, I would have been far more vocal in trying to get people to join a BC bandwagon but you will notice I did no such thing as far as I can recall anyway. That's as much as I'll say in the interest of defending myself.
This redFF "flip", or whatever it is, is inconclusive and I don't feel it necessary to comment on it further. I'll read filters when I have the time. Notice how he is very direct in explaining his actions about where his vote and suspicion lies. There isn't a single post he's made in this game that can be mirrored with a typical post from that game. He hasn't done any explaining this game. He only focuses on the present and fails to address his past behavior. And the few times people have brought up this fact his response has been "well I always second guess myself trolol" Put simply, he is not taking responsibility for his actions. It's also interesting to note how calm and collected he has been in the past when he is town. The above post is typical in showing is behavior when analyzing and addressing issues. Of course we know him to have a temper from time to time, as we all do whenever we are in a game with VE. However this game he has done nothing but call people retarded over and over again. This attitude is a bit reminiscent of wherebugsgo when he is mafia. I can understand being frustrated with the game (considering I have Jay riding my ass constantly), but the level of his insults coming from DrH is not only out of character, but completely unnatural. I would also like to mention that this game DrH has an absurd amount of one liners and small posts. A quick glance through Storm Mafia and Arkham City show that his posting length this game is also not in sync with his normal town play. When DrH is town, he is not afraid to write paragraphs upon paragraphs detailing his thoughts. This game we have one liners about how small our IQ is.
SummaryDrH has been playing completely out of character from his typical town play. He hasn't been focused, anormous finger pointing, one liners and insults. His posts have been inconsistent and bringing confusion into the thread. He has not been responsible this game and he needs to be held accountable for it. DrH is mafia
##Vote DoctorHelvetica In this game, when going after N_T Katina displays a very odd use of meta - very different from the way she used in the past (LII: Jubjub Mafia where Katina fingers DocH based on meta with a clear difference between his town and mafia styles (when DocH is town his posting is much longer and doesn't attack other people)). Compare that to this game, where Katina uses meta against Nova_Terra (Nova_Terra is scum because he spams as mafia. Yet he does this both as town and mafia...) That's not a logical argument at all. Also everyone should look at the cases that Katina makes in that game and compare that to this game; there's a clear level of depth that's missing from anything she has posted here. This Game: Show nested quote +On May 27 2012 02:34 Katina wrote:
Okay first of all, I'm really tired of people (WBG) assuming I'm mafia because of my Meta I have said myself I have been busy. Stuff kept coming up this week, that's what happens when you have a "Life". I am sorry I couldn't be more active.
Secondly the two people I have been gunning for (N_T and Mattchew) are doing nothing but constantly bashing me. N_T is so focused on getting me lynched he is completely distracting himself from the forum. Mattchew is butt hurt because I got him to crack and stop using his quotes.
Third, I realize that Zealos claimed. I was fine lynching him as I stated in one of my posts before that. So me voting for someone I thought was scummy is considered Mafia? I love the logic behind that.
I apologize for not spewing out random votes and cluttering up the thread like a lot of you do. Everyone is so focused on me for stupid reasons when there are so many scummier people. Liar Game: Show nested quote +On May 16 2012 07:26 Katina wrote:On May 16 2012 03:04 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:On May 16 2012 00:10 Katina wrote:On May 15 2012 07:35 slOosh wrote:
Katina are you calling Meapak scum? Or misguided? How about prplhz? Not really. His reasons for thinking Palmar is innocent are silly. I don't actually think he's mafia but then again I have no idea who could be on Palmar's team other than Wiggles. Katina I'm sick of you half assing this game. Put in some goddamn effort and give us some ACTUAL reasons. I don't know, maybe write an analysis, maybe have more of a thread presence, maybe PM people and at least pretend like you're interested. After the cephiro flip I blew up all my reads and started over again and let me say this katina, it's foolishness's insistence that you're town which is preventing me right now from putting you in the majority and lynching you this cycle. Play the game. I have been sir. I do not mean to overstep your pride here. Let me say again that your reasons for thinking Palmar is innocent are silly. I don't say this in an accusatory way; it's the truth. I don't think you are mafia, but as I said I don't know who the last member on Palmar's team is (I think Wiggles is one of them). You said that Palmar is innocent because he has had the same reads as you from the start. That does not indicate anything about alignment. Palmar has wanted to kill sandroba and Cephiro (these are the two you listed). But everyone wants to kill those two. Also it makes the most sense that sandroba is the last member of BC's team. So Palmar isn't bussing one of his teammates. The most incriminating piece of evidence is that Palmar was virtually derping when syllogism was alive. That's cause syllogism was hard core pushing his innocence especially in PMs. I know Foolishness and wherebugsgo were both suspicious of Palmar but syllogism made it hard for them to push that read. That and there were more important targets at the time. If you look through Palmar's post history you will see he was most active day 1 and then in the previous days since syllogism's death. Palmar was using syllogism as an excuse to not do anything. With syllogism constantly pushing his innocence he did not have to try at all, either in the thread or PM. He has only stepped up his posting since syllogism died, whether he's stepped up in PM land or not I don't know. Even if you want to start pointing guns at me, you still need to explain why Palmar deserves a free pass. Cause this isn't about me, it's about Palmar. And like I said at least one person out of you, me, and Palmar has to be mafia. Unless you're going to claim mafia I'm not stopping until Palmar is dead. When attacked in previous games (for example Liar Game) Katina typically brings forth new thoughts and reads (She's very eager to elaborate her reads on Palmar and address the issues that other people bring up). In this game though, Katina just says that she was busy and repeats the same arguments that she's been giving the entire game without analyzing anything new. With such a big difference between her town play and her play this game and a general lack of good posting and reads, I think Katina is almost definitely scum. A fairly long well thought through post, making valid points based on meta across several games and applying them to the current game. Except it's scum Hiro making this post. Looking through his town games, they are more categorised by shorter posts, where ultimately Hiro is more involved in what's going on than he is here. I believe HiroPro is scum Seriously, that's your filter. If you want to discuss what you said about HiroPro, fine. But what you said was "leaning town" --> "dont' want to lynch him, but please write up a case because I agree on the weak presence" (to Palmar) --> "I believe HiroPro is scum" I will respond to the actual last post on HiroPro, I read it but I'll work through my own thoughts now. Just...look at that progression. You haven't been hammering on HiroPro. Your read went from townie to townie but I agree on weak presence to scum. And your entire Hiro argument SEEMS to be "I thought hiro was town because he was active, now I think he's lazy town and must be scum because he's active." Can you give more robust thoughts on Hiro, because I'll discuss what you've said but it ain't much. Yes, I meant specifically the last post. I don't know what else to say because I explained in that post why I shifted my reasoning. I had believed the effort he went to to search through previous games to make good meta arguments meant he was making good effort, which tends towards a townie read. Effectively, my read previously had been taking this game in isolation, and earlier I went back and went back and looked through a bunch of Hiro's games. That's why I posted that post from Mini Magic, and commented on his other town games. I'm just rehashing in longer version what I said in that post there. There aren't really that many 'robust' thoughts to give other than what I said. I said ealrier, as you mention that he seemed disconnected/weak presence, and going back through his games, it contradicts his meta. I guess...when I read that post, what I get is you saying - I was leaning Hiro because of "diligence" and "his arguments based on going back and finding meta" --> Hiro for effort
- I am now reversing that read, because Hiro is lazy and Hiro makes longer posts concerning meta
- I will now link one long post in which Hiro discussed Katina and her meta
- That post came from Hiro
- Looking at other games, Hiro posts short posts and is "more involved" than he is here
I dislike that post and I almost just throw it out. You looked at Hiro's past games. You gave us ONE quote from ONE game, and a blanket statement that Hiro in other games posts shorter and is more involved. Which is fine, but just understand that there's not really too much there other than some assertions about Hiro's meta that are almost certainly true, but based on size of posts. One reason you found Hiro townie eariler was his "well thought out points" and that his "thoughts have been unique this game and [you] like the way he thinks and agree with it much of the time." Does that still hold true? Does his meta trump that? I'd be more convinced by what's happening in game than a meta argument based on short/long posts and involvement. I don't see anything in that post about whether scum Hiro's points are well thought out, or about how you agree with scum Hiro's points but not town Hiro's points. Do you really want to lynch Hiro based on being disconnected and posting long posts? I know you are voting Ange, but are you scummy enough on Hiro because of the meta read that you have that you want to lynch him, despite liking the way he's thought and the points he's made? Frankly, yes. His only scum game that wasn't his newbie game was that Magic Mini game. That was the only game of the others that I looked at that he used meta examples from across various games in a post of his. Actually in the post I quoted, he was bussing Katina (who, in that game, I thought correctly was scum on meta) and his points were all valid. It's not that I disagree with townie Hiro points, but they are rarely as... carefully constructed as his posts here were. It reminds me of Bureaucracy a bit, where slOosh made several outwardly excellent posts, but he was 'disconnected' from the thread. I could dig up my post where I said that if you really wanted. Other than that there's not a lot to do other than say "why don't you have a look at the games for yourself?". HiroPro is typically more involved in the thread as town, but it's pretty hard just to pull random snippets from other games that show this. Okay, that's fine. Didn't realize he'd only been scum once. No worries on the bureaucracy comparison. If that's all that can be said about him, though, then it's difficult for us to discuss your read on him. The most we could do is get to the same point, "Geez, his activity and the size of his posts doesn't look the same as townHiro." I'd rather have evidence from inside this game to lynch on than something as fuzzy as that. Coming full circle though...you should still knock it off with Palmar. I've read your stuff. There's just nothing we can really DO with HiroPro though based on your post, because while it may look wrong it's not lynchably wrong (at least for me). If there's not a robust history, then looking through his meta, especially for things like post size and involvement, doesn't get us too much compared to someone that DOES have a decent number of games of both alignments. I'll give Hiro's conduct THIS game some more attention later this cycle.
My point is that his conduct this game is disconnected from the thread, which can be and often is a scummy characteristic on its own. The fact that it directly contradicts his townie meta is extra and confirmation.
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@ Bluelightz
1. Mementoss's post's rather took my interest because he stood out out of the rest of teh people posting at the time, that't why I made my case on him, I took 10 quotes because I wanted to see how he posted after his original posting. DID YOU LOOK AT THE POST'S I QUOTED? Sure I wouldn't of made the case if Memen looked like he was contributing.
2. I didn't want to sheep, I always have my reasons for voting X or not voting Y.
3. How was I supposed to interact when I was sleeping when prplhz was on?
Points #1 and #3 are fair, but Point #2 is one of my main issues. You shouldn't be concerned for giving your reasons for voting someone when there's a strong bandwagon on them. In your other games as town, you were very comfortable sheeping cases, or voting without detailing your reasoning. You bombing a semi-long case on prplzh when he had 4 votes on him was really odd, and IMO not something that should have crossed your mind if you largely agreed with the bandwagon on him.
On my meta, I'm trying to NOT flood the town with 'useless' town reads, and keep them for when I need to defend them from a impending lynch, on the 'sure or not sure on reads' thing, I felt more confident with my choices on cases this game.
This is odd to me. Why would you withhold information from the town. Waiting for a huge bandwagon to form on someone before you defend them is just strange. Why wouldn't you try to prevent that bandwagon/lynch in the first place by disclosing your town reads?
Lastly, I'd like your comments on the Ange777 suspicions if possible. Any other reads you have would do. The more open, the better.
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@ Marv
I've been reading through Hiro's filters, and I'm not quite ready to peg him has scum. I agree that I haven't seen him make such a comprehensive post in his townie meta, but that's not necessarily scummy to me. Could very well be a meta-deviation. His silence so far has been telling, and I'm starting to lean scum on him.
Also, what is your exact read on Palmar right now? I'm having trouble determining whether you actually think he's scum or if you're just fighting with him 'cause you're pissed at him or something.
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@ Palmar
If you're around, please reply to some of our questions. In particular, I want to know how a Hiro + Marv scumteam (that you're proposing) even makes sense. Lastly, if you want to defend Ange, post why. I don't care if you think we won't find your answer sufficient - it doesn't help us if you have a read that you're not willing to post.
Honestly, detailed comments of any suspicions would be appreciated.
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United Kingdom36156 Posts
On September 22 2012 02:10 Hapahauli wrote:
@ Marv
I've been reading through Hiro's filters, and I'm not quite ready to peg him has scum. I agree that I haven't seen him make such a comprehensive post in his townie meta, but that's not necessarily scummy to me. Could very well be a meta-deviation. His silence so far has been telling, and I'm starting to lean scum on him.
Also, what is your exact read on Palmar right now? I'm having trouble determining whether you actually think he's scum or if you're just fighting with him 'cause you're pissed at him or something.
Scum. I was prepared to believe Palmar was just being... Palmar going into today, and was willing to hear out his contributions and go from there.
Instead it's clear from the Palmar we are dealing with that he doesn't give a crap about the game at all. He remains unwilling to share anything; he just doesn't care.
He's had the opportunity to come in to the thread and talk about why Ange might be town, or why Hiro is scum, and he's failed dismally on both counts. He said something along the lines of "there's still plenty of time" and that's exceptionally weak.
If Palmar genuinely believed town was going in the wrong direction with the Ange lynch, he should be doing what he can to stop it now, not 'later'. He said he hoped prplhz would be able to extricate himself from the mess he was in by himself. That may be so, but if he had actual insight as to why prplhz was town, why wasn't he sharing it?
In short, I currently see no evidence that Palmar cares for town in any way whatsoever, and he is scum.
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So presumably you think Ange and Palmar are scum, yes?
If so, how does Hiro make sense as scum? It really doesn't.
Let's look from hypothetical "scum-Palmar's" perspective:
1) Ange, his "scumbuddy" slipped
2) Palmar's second "scumbuddy," Hiro, was not under much suspicion from anyone but Palmar
3) ...then Palmar proceeds to call a shot on Hiro and mention him explicitly as his top scumread?
There's no way this is true. Something's wrong in this equation.
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United Kingdom36156 Posts
On September 22 2012 02:39 Hapahauli wrote:
So presumably you think Ange and Palmar are scum, yes?
If so, how does Hiro make sense as scum? It really doesn't.
Let's look from hypothetical "scum-Palmar's" perspective:
1) Ange, his "scumbuddy" slipped
2) Palmar's second "scumbuddy," Hiro, was not under much suspicion from anyone but Palmar
3) ...then Palmar proceeds to call a shot on Hiro and mention him explicitly as his top scumread?
There's no way this is true. Something's wrong in this equation.
Palmar is known for his scum strat to be "bus all his team-mates".
Hiro was under suspicion from Palmar, but with no weight. If Palmar refuses to give reasoning for Hiro being scum, then this isn't valid suspicion, it isn't even pressure. No-one is going to pay any attention to Palmar saying Hiro is scum if Palmar doesn't elaborate upon it.
The very fact that Palmar has been completely unwilling to elaborate on HiroPro since he mentioned him as a scumread in practically his first post of the game invalidates your argument in my opinion.
Gonna exercise now but I'd be very happy to discuss this when I get back.
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In fact, I'm really surprised no one has been bringing up posts by Ange on the subject of Palmar.
On September 18 2012 23:48 Ange777 wrote:@Palmar: Show nested quote +On September 18 2012 22:57 Palmar wrote:On September 18 2012 09:39 iamperfection wrote:On September 18 2012 09:38 Hapahauli wrote:On September 18 2012 09:35 iamperfection wrote:On September 18 2012 09:35 Hapahauli wrote:On September 18 2012 09:30 iamperfection wrote:you case on prplhz is shit. a fucking meta case on 1 post come on. Although i dont think that was the point of your case i think the purpose was to drive discussion which it has done. Kudos to you. The purpose of my random lynch was an attempt to drive some discussion. I had already discussed with marv after my previous game in which palmar suggested a random lynch in order to drive discussion on day 1. Thats why i find it extremely wierd that marv didnt think it was random when i had already spoken with him that i would do it in my next game. On September 18 2012 06:46 marvellosity wrote:
P.S the whole point is that iamp's suggestion wasn't random, so we already have a liar. LAL? I say we respect his wishes. ## Vote Marvelosity Geebus why are you flipping out? what? " you case on prplhz is shit. a fucking meta case on 1 post come on." Seems very unnecessarily critical/harsh/attacking. Like I don't think his case is good either, but that's just over the top and scummy imo. he is a big boy. i dont think he will lose sleep over it. Confirms my post above. No scum would say this. Why wouldn't scum say this? While I agree with Blazinghand and hapa leaning town, I can't understand how you are giving iamperfection townie points.
On September 19 2012 00:07 Ange777 wrote:
Mementoss did defend iamperfection whereas Palmar simply gave him town cred for apparentely no reason. But iamperfection himself had commented on Mementoss' defense so of course I am asking for his stance on Mementoss.
...
You have shut down any discussion regarding Palmar's alignment.
Ed note: directed at prplzh
...Why not? I don't like Palmar's style of just giving away all his reads without any single explanation other than to take his word for it. (But apparentely no one else is annoyed by this fact besides me.) I am perfectly fine with discussing new lynch targets but I need to know why someone proposes them to be lynched.
...
I will probably check Palmar's filter once more later, furthermore I want to know where the lurkers like austin, Bluelightz, mkfuba07 and HiroPro have gone. Stop lurking and get in the game.
There's much more, but the point is, Ange has been passively throwing suspicion at Palmar all game. She has constantly been doing this. If you think Ange is scum, it's incredibly unlikely that Palmar is scum. Scumbuddies just don't do this to each other.
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United Kingdom36156 Posts
I think you have a pretty unsophisticated view of how scumteams might interact, frankly.
Anyway, back in a couple of hours.
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Oh you sniped me a bit there. Point is, Palmar might bus teammates, but Ange passively pointing suspicion at Palmar all game doesn't really make sense if Ange is scum. I'm inclined to think that one of them is town.
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As long as we're playing connection games, I'm still wondering about this:
On September 20 2012 19:06 Palmar wrote:For the record, I don't think mementoss is scum. I agree with almost everything said in this post, aside from lynching me. But it's fine, I don't intend for this game to reach lylo. Show nested quote +On September 20 2012 05:46 prplhz wrote:
okay prplhz list of reads:
town:
iamperfection
blazing
zephirdd
hapa
mementoss
palmar
townie/null:
austinmcc
mkfuba07
bluelightz
scummy:
ange777
hiropro
scum:
marv
remember to lynch palmar at lylo
On September 21 2012 10:02 austinmcc wrote:
SNIPPED
I'd be interested in Palmar's thoughts on ange. She was in prplhz's "scummy" range, along with hiropro, who seems to be palmar's lynch preference for today. Palmar was that one of prplhz's reads you were alright with? If so, do you want to share reasoning?
On September 21 2012 22:21 Palmar wrote:
That is very much fine with me. This ange lynch is not good anyway.
There's been far less Palmar --> Ange interaction when compared to Palmar --> Hiro, which is saying something I guess. Although there was a good amount of Ange --> Palmar action D1 where she was asking him lots of questions and trying to keep thread from letting him get by with what he was adding.
I still don't want to lynch Palmar, but only after pulling it back out do I realize how much I dislike him agreeing with "almost everything" in prplhz's list. I don't care as much about a lack of reasoning behind reads, but that post from his is actually NO reads. Agreeing with almost everything there tells us nothing about what he actually does and doesn't agree with, besides prplhz's read on Palmar himself.
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Ack. Doublesniped on some of the Ange --> Palmar action.
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On September 21 2012 08:49 austinmcc wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2012 08:44 Hapahauli wrote:Austin, can you clarify something for me? ...
Again, I had the same exact feeling that ange was active around deadline, but the timing didn't match up. She had a lot of activity in the hour or two before the lynch, but she did NOTHING with the claims. She seemed more worried about iamperfection's vote that the claims themselves, as that's her only comment between asking if prplz could confirm hapa's mason claim and then commenting that she was waiting for the flip 3 minutes after deadline. I'm not exactly sure what you mean by the bolded. 5 minutes to deadline - nice claims 3 minutes to deadline - "are you confirming mason?" That's it. She seems to disbelieve the claims, but then asks "are you confirming mason?" However, she doesn't care about the answer. 3 minutes after deadline she's just waiting for flip. It really reminds me of something I semi-caught from Mattchew in Can't Believe. He asked for reads on marv, 2 people gave townreads on marv, then Mattchew votes marv. It made it look like he was just asking the question, but didn't care about responses. Ange asks if prplhz is confirming the mason claim, but doesn't do anything after. Doesn't push him hard for an answer. Doesn't even say if she believes the claim or not, which a lot of people were doing. She just throws that question out there 3 minutes before deadline, and is back 3 minutes after deadline to say "Where's the flip?" I don't feel that her silence after that question is townie. She should at least be concerned about the answer if she's going to ask. But she doesn't seem to have been concerned, and she didn't say anything about whether or not she believed the mason claim, found them town/scum, etc.
On September 21 2012 10:22 Mementoss wrote:Marv also pointed this out and anges second explanation is just as logically flawed as the first. Show nested quote +On September 20 2012 05:40 Ange777 wrote:@iamperfectino: On September 20 2012 05:23 iamperfection wrote:On September 20 2012 05:16 austinmcc wrote:On September 20 2012 05:14 iamperfection wrote:
Raise your hand if you are here Explain your vote if you are here On September 20 2012 04:51 Ange777 wrote:On September 20 2012 04:47 iamperfection wrote:On September 20 2012 04:38 marvellosity wrote:
sounds like some epic phone posting gone wrong You know me to well. I meant to say it is reasonable for me to follow my town reads because they are usually right So you are not voting austin because you think he is scummy but because you hope that your town reads found scum? I did you didn't like the explanation. And I'm starting to not like my explanation What's this? @marv: On September 20 2012 05:30 marvellosity wrote:On September 20 2012 05:15 Ange777 wrote:Okay, so I am trying to understand this case against austin. On September 19 2012 22:39 marvellosity wrote:austin: yeah, I think I most of all want to lynch austin. Some of it's gonna be a rehash, but it's important for the whole thing. The reason people jumped on austin in the first place: On September 18 2012 06:55 austinmcc wrote:On September 18 2012 06:50 Blazinghand wrote:
Hey pudding-munchers stop arguing about that and read my case I don't know how anyone can munch on pudding. I DO kind of like that observation. It feels almost TOO obvious but...man it's kind of damning. Pretty much generally agreed that this was scummy, so won't delve too much. Where shit starts to diverge is on the response, which people read as townie. There's important time issues to look at. BlazingHand first pushes him to elaborate on it, and we get this as a response: On September 18 2012 07:16 austinmcc wrote:On September 18 2012 07:09 Blazinghand wrote:On September 18 2012 06:55 austinmcc wrote:On September 18 2012 06:50 Hapahauli wrote:
If mafia would like to keep hypothetical townie-marv alive to the endgame because of my "policy lynch," then awesome! Mission accomplished! Though in all seriousness, I've read through quite a few of his recent games. He never lives as town past N3 (barring Mad Men Mafia where he was a replacement) in his recent games. If he's alive a long time, there's a very high chance (IMO basically guaranteed chance) of him flipping red.
<3 everyone at all, but you need to look further. He's generally not being killed off for supersexy scumhunting, but because he comes off as very townie and is generating a lot of discussion/activity from others. His early reads, although I haven't read recent games, are not generally a big threat to mafia.
On September 18 2012 06:50 Blazinghand wrote:
Hey pudding-munchers stop arguing about that and read my case I don't know how anyone can munch on pudding. I DO kind of like that observation. It feels almost TOO obvious but...man it's kind of damning. Elaborate. Now. Elaboration on the second half - Pudding is soft. Munching feels like it requires chewing, crunching. Can't do that with pudding. As to the obvious bit, obvious is the wrong word. I like...neat observations like that. It says something, unsure what, about you that you could pull out the starts to prplhz's game just like POOF. Like, I key in on the initial question more than the actual scummy stuff, because there's a chance that prplhz doesn't realize he's started scum games like that. But ... he has to, right? I gotta leave work, but the thought process is convoluted here. Pudding blabla not satisfactory at all. His 'townie' explanation that follows only comes after me, Hapa, and BH apply further considerable pressure.On September 18 2012 08:03 austinmcc wrote:On September 18 2012 07:21 Blazinghand wrote:
The "it's way too scummy, he must be town" argument is dumb on its head. What are you even saying
On September 18 2012 07:23 marvellosity wrote:
austin, you're not playing with grush.
speak plainly or die like a little bitch. It's not that it's too scummy to be town. Because the part of your post that I key in on is that prplhz, in two other scum games, and in none of the games he's played as town (out of what you reference), opens in a similar manner. I think you are stretching when you say that the questions are scummy. Yes he can go look the guy up. Yes, he might ought to at least remember that the guy played in a game he hosted. But it's not like...asking a question about who someone is is scummy on its face. There's no scumhunting heuristic for "opens games asking questions about a particular player." It MAY be scummy as applied to prplhz, but it's not like every player who opens like that is probably scum. So then . . . working off that. If it's not scummy on its face, but might be scummy to prplhz, why? There's no objective pushed there, it's not like starting off a game with that post helps a mafia objective. If prplhz is scum and happens to start all his scum games this way, it's just something he does without knowing it. There's no objective pushed. Then finally, if starting games that way as scum is just something prplhz does without knowing it, not to push an objective, then . . . it's almost null? Not getting there in the same way "small sample size" gets there. The train of thought is... (1) This is a thing that prplhz has done in scum games (2) This is a thing that does not further mafia objectives, or actively DO anything really (3) Therefore, it's likely he's just doing it subconsciously (4) If he's doing it subconsciously, then it's not really a tell. Could argue that he only does it subconsciously as scum, but then you get the sample size discussion and there's no real proof either way. So obvious was really the wrong word choice, when I fully go through this. It's not a bad explanation as it goes, and I can see why people viewed it as townie. But the fact is that it only came after his previous, poor explanation. In other words, he had to give a good explanation because he knew a large part of town was hounding him for it. In this context, I believe it loses some of its 'townieness'. I bold the final line as well for a reason. Obvious was the wrong word choice, eh? Look at how austin usually posts - longwinded, carefully thought out. Yet in this instance he'd thrown out his 'obvious' and 'too damning'. It looks like austin is justifying his scummy words after the fact. austin has a few posts subsequently, but they are all focused on his own defence rather than any other scumhunting. Why is he so worried about how others view his defence? Why is he only talking about his own defence rather than being proactive elsewhere? Because he's worried that he needs to appear as town. After these posts, austin has been markedly absent from any of the considerable goings-on in this thread. We don't have an opinion on anyone or anything, except his own defence. His play is marked by being worried by how he appears, rather than finding scum. ##Vote: austinmcc Why does him posting a very poor first explanation before delivering a satisfying reasoning for his behaviour makes him lose "townieness"? Shouldn't the fact that he made such a bad explanation make him more townie as apparentely he was not worried about defending himself when he first made that post? Seeing his recent vastly improved posting (especially his defense and scum-hunting whilst under pressure) I don't think austin is scum. You'll have to explain to me why giving a weak explanation on a weak comment makes him townie, Ange. My train of thought was that he was waffling in his defence to the post, hoping to brush it under the carpet, instead of straight out explaining why he made the vote in the first place. The fact that he needed to be further pressured to clarify his comment makes him lose townieness, because by this point he is forced to make a good explanation or face being lynched. That said, austin's concerns on my company on him are legitimate. iamperfection is giving absolutely no reasoning, and he completely correct that I asked fuba for thoughts on austin, WHO HE IS FUCKNIG VOTING, and he gave me thoughts on Mementoss instead. Arg. My point is that giving a weak explanation fits a town player who should not be scared of being accused as scum. Being town there is no need to write your posts carefully which could lead to a weak first explanation before a satisfying second one. I see your point of view but I don't agree with it. Show nested quote +On September 20 2012 05:58 Ange777 wrote:
Why are you ninja voting iamperfection??? Only scum would say this. Solely Trying to incriminate iamprefection with the question, when the answer was fucking obvious to anyone and everyone. The conflicting claims when one of them was obviously fake. And it wasn't a ninja vote since there is no voting thread and it was in plain sight. Show nested quote +On September 21 2012 01:07 Ange777 wrote:Finally people are taking a closer look at Palmar. I don't know about his past achievements of being perhaps a terrific scum hunter but I have not seen anything worthy of being praised like that in this game yet. Unfortunately I won't be in for the deadline, for now my top scum reads are Palmar and iamperfection. @iamperfection: On September 20 2012 22:57 iamperfection wrote:
also at ange i want to you to explain more on your thought process at the deadline. What was going through your head when the claims came out.
What was going on? I have you marked as a scum read that's what's going on. Why would someone give up his right to vote just to simply sheep another player? Especially sheeping someone you yourself called a terrible townie. There is no town motivatoin for that kind of play. Publicly stating to sheep your town read just gives you an excuse to be wrong with your vote because you were not responsible for it. And suddenly vote switching in the last minutes onto the seemingly scum prplhz whom you had not mentioned again after dismissing Blazinghand's case as being a weak meta case is just something I don't understand. Two possibilities: 1) You are town. You want to make sure prplhz gets lynched. But we already had the majority to lynch him. So why the last minute vote? We discussed prplhz a lot before the end of Day 1 and you did not give your stance on him. 2) You are scum. You wanted to get some town cred for jumping on "scum prplhz". Right now I am leaning to 2 as you still haven't given me a satisfying answer for your voting behaviour. Ange saying there is no town motivation for iamperfections play is just ridiculous and its actually the opposite. Ange is trying to incriminate him and put together a case against someone she doesn't find dangerous. Someone that won't come back and call her out. Someone that won't attempt to call her on her shit. Town motivation for switching votes, you thought the claim was fake and ridiculous so you changed your vote to who you thought was scum. Any reasonable town in the thread WOULD make this switch. Scum motivation for making this switch? There is none, why would scum want to last minute switch onto a townie? Why would scum want to out themselves by doing this? He could have easily pretended not to be in the thread.
This looks good to me. I'm fine with lynching ange. Palmar still hasn't done anything that makes me think he's town. I'd be fine with lynching him too.
##Vote ange77
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Hiro, care to comment more on the Palmar stuff? Been quite a bit going on in the last few pages.
Also, thoughts on Bluelightz?
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On September 22 2012 02:46 Hapahauli wrote:In fact, I'm really surprised no one has been bringing up posts by Ange on the subject of Palmar. Show nested quote +On September 18 2012 23:48 Ange777 wrote:@Palmar: On September 18 2012 22:57 Palmar wrote:On September 18 2012 09:39 iamperfection wrote:On September 18 2012 09:38 Hapahauli wrote:On September 18 2012 09:35 iamperfection wrote:On September 18 2012 09:35 Hapahauli wrote:On September 18 2012 09:30 iamperfection wrote:you case on prplhz is shit. a fucking meta case on 1 post come on. Although i dont think that was the point of your case i think the purpose was to drive discussion which it has done. Kudos to you. The purpose of my random lynch was an attempt to drive some discussion. I had already discussed with marv after my previous game in which palmar suggested a random lynch in order to drive discussion on day 1. Thats why i find it extremely wierd that marv didnt think it was random when i had already spoken with him that i would do it in my next game. On September 18 2012 06:46 marvellosity wrote:
P.S the whole point is that iamp's suggestion wasn't random, so we already have a liar. LAL? I say we respect his wishes. ## Vote Marvelosity Geebus why are you flipping out? what? " you case on prplhz is shit. a fucking meta case on 1 post come on." Seems very unnecessarily critical/harsh/attacking. Like I don't think his case is good either, but that's just over the top and scummy imo. he is a big boy. i dont think he will lose sleep over it. Confirms my post above. No scum would say this. Why wouldn't scum say this? While I agree with Blazinghand and hapa leaning town, I can't understand how you are giving iamperfection townie points. Show nested quote +On September 19 2012 00:07 Ange777 wrote:
Mementoss did defend iamperfection whereas Palmar simply gave him town cred for apparentely no reason. But iamperfection himself had commented on Mementoss' defense so of course I am asking for his stance on Mementoss. Show nested quote +...
You have shut down any discussion regarding Palmar's alignment.
Ed note: directed at prplzh Show nested quote +...Why not? I don't like Palmar's style of just giving away all his reads without any single explanation other than to take his word for it. (But apparentely no one else is annoyed by this fact besides me.) I am perfectly fine with discussing new lynch targets but I need to know why someone proposes them to be lynched.
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I will probably check Palmar's filter once more later, furthermore I want to know where the lurkers like austin, Bluelightz, mkfuba07 and HiroPro have gone. Stop lurking and get in the game. There's much more, but the point is, Ange has been passively throwing suspicion at Palmar all game. She has constantly been doing this. If you think Ange is scum, it's incredibly unlikely that Palmar is scum. Scumbuddies just don't do this to each other.
I would disagree, I think if anything this makes it more likely that ange and palmar would be scum together. Ange has been throwing suspicion at Palmar all game, without doing a fucking thing a bout it. Thats a main point of my case on her, appearing useful through these points and questions, but really not having a purpose behind any of them, is scum motivation. They don't need a purpose they have the answers. Can you honestly say that these things ange said affected Palmar in any way whatsoever>?
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EPT
