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On September 18 2012 09:30 iamperfection wrote:you case on prplhz is shit. a fucking meta case on 1 post come on. Although i dont think that was the point of your case i think the purpose was to drive discussion which it has done. Kudos to you. The purpose of my random lynch was an attempt to drive some discussion. I had already discussed with marv after my previous game in which palmar suggested a random lynch in order to drive discussion on day 1.
Thats why i find it extremely wierd that marv didnt think it was random when i had already spoken with him that i would do it in my next game. Show nested quote +On September 18 2012 06:46 marvellosity wrote:
P.S the whole point is that iamp's suggestion wasn't random, so we already have a liar. LAL? I say we respect his wishes. ## Vote Marvelosity
Rereading the thread, and I need to comment on this. Random lynch isn't coming in to the thread and going "let's lynch this guy."
You should know this VERY WELL having seen how Palmar went about it; he proposes a methodical method where we all go to some website he set up or some shit and roll a RNG. The point of Palmar's random-lynch is that it is demonstrably random to the whole thread. Yours was not demonstrably random.
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"a methodical method" - nice marv, nice
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On September 18 2012 09:39 austinmcc wrote:Show nested quote +On September 18 2012 09:32 Hapahauli wrote:On September 18 2012 09:26 austinmcc wrote:On September 18 2012 08:27 Hapahauli wrote:
##Unvote
@ Austinmcc - Well posted and thanks for explaining your rationale. Enough for me to take the vote off for now. BH you're high-fiving Hapa. You okay with the speed at which he swapped off me? marv, I'd like your thoughts here as well. Do you feel the same way hapa does about my explanation? My D1 voting spreads like an STD. In all seriousness, your explanation was good - everyone was on you for a bit because you weren't clear about your rationale. Explaining rationale ----> vote removed. As for marv, I believe he's putting the finishing touches on the newbie game he's hosting, so he probably won't be around for a bit. I got no problem with everyone being on me, that phase actually happens in a decent number of my games. But I have no ability to judge the clarity of my explanation. I need other thoughts on how clear you seemed to find it. It also helps me see the thought processes behind their own reads, except BH. When you question him, he appears to become Drazerk.
Could you expand on this austin?
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On September 18 2012 21:46 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On September 18 2012 09:30 iamperfection wrote:you case on prplhz is shit. a fucking meta case on 1 post come on. Although i dont think that was the point of your case i think the purpose was to drive discussion which it has done. Kudos to you. The purpose of my random lynch was an attempt to drive some discussion. I had already discussed with marv after my previous game in which palmar suggested a random lynch in order to drive discussion on day 1.
Thats why i find it extremely wierd that marv didnt think it was random when i had already spoken with him that i would do it in my next game. On September 18 2012 06:46 marvellosity wrote:
P.S the whole point is that iamp's suggestion wasn't random, so we already have a liar. LAL? I say we respect his wishes. ## Vote Marvelosity Rereading the thread, and I need to comment on this. Random lynch isn't coming in to the thread and going "let's lynch this guy." You should know this VERY WELL having seen how Palmar went about it; he proposes a methodical method where we all go to some website he set up or some shit and roll a RNG. The point of Palmar's random-lynch is that it is demonstrably random to the whole thread. Yours was not demonstrably random.
sorry to spam, carried on through the thread and people have brought this up already. Do carry on.
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@prplhz:
On September 18 2012 20:33 prplhz wrote:
Disclaimer: I don't read any analysis that refer to the "Zephirdd Rule" also known as the "Kenpachi Rule Extended" because I think it's bullshit.
Anyway, HapaHauli is playing active and townie and I have no interest in lynching him today. Ange777 is looking terrible though.
@Ange777 Have you been scum at any point and can you direct me to one of those games?
List of people who suck: Bluelightz, marvellosity.
What makes you think my play is terrible? And why does thinking the Kenpachi/Zephirdd Rule is bullshit entitle you to just ignore cases? Just because someone posts bullshit does not mean that it can't help you uncover scum. Again I don't see any kind of scum hunting from you. Scum?
+ Show Spoiler +In my first game ever I rolled scum: Newbie XII.
@Bluelightz:
What makes you think that Mementoss is more scummy than prplhz? Your biggest concern seems to be that he has many different scum reads but that does not mean that he is not contributing. In contrary it is better than prplhz's filter who has not backed up his suspicions with an explanation at all.
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On September 18 2012 21:46 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On September 18 2012 09:30 iamperfection wrote:you case on prplhz is shit. a fucking meta case on 1 post come on. Although i dont think that was the point of your case i think the purpose was to drive discussion which it has done. Kudos to you. The purpose of my random lynch was an attempt to drive some discussion. I had already discussed with marv after my previous game in which palmar suggested a random lynch in order to drive discussion on day 1.
Thats why i find it extremely wierd that marv didnt think it was random when i had already spoken with him that i would do it in my next game. On September 18 2012 06:46 marvellosity wrote:
P.S the whole point is that iamp's suggestion wasn't random, so we already have a liar. LAL? I say we respect his wishes. ## Vote Marvelosity Rereading the thread, and I need to comment on this. Random lynch isn't coming in to the thread and going "let's lynch this guy." You should know this VERY WELL having seen how Palmar went about it; he proposes a methodical method where we all go to some website he set up or some shit and roll a RNG. The point of Palmar's random-lynch is that it is demonstrably random to the whole thread. Yours was not demonstrably random.
I know it was so much better. Thanks for explaining your reasoning on why you were somewhat suprised about my actions at the start. It makes more sense now.
## Unvote
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also mkfuba07 get the fuck in here.
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I'm here, but I'm getting ready for class (today is my longest day). Gotta head out right now to catch the bus, but I'll be more active than I have been throughout the day.
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How about you give your own scum reads iamperfection?
On September 18 2012 10:29 iamperfection wrote:Show nested quote +On September 18 2012 09:55 Mementoss wrote:On September 18 2012 09:54 Hapahauli wrote:
Well tbh, you could make that entire chart red - I lynched goodkarma in one game because I thought his play was "too clean" =P
But back to iamperfection, I'm definitely leaning scummy to him for now. I can't yet discount him just being plain pissed that you voted for him (a townie OMGUS type thing), but the sudden severity of it all is just really strange. Answer this, why would scum make their first post that? It obviously wouldn't do anything towards getting Marv lynched. It would only bring negative attention towards himself. people that defend me frighten me.
Why so scared?
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On September 18 2012 22:17 Ange777 wrote:How about you give your own scum reads iamperfection? Show nested quote +On September 18 2012 10:29 iamperfection wrote:On September 18 2012 09:55 Mementoss wrote:On September 18 2012 09:54 Hapahauli wrote:
Well tbh, you could make that entire chart red - I lynched goodkarma in one game because I thought his play was "too clean" =P
But back to iamperfection, I'm definitely leaning scummy to him for now. I can't yet discount him just being plain pissed that you voted for him (a townie OMGUS type thing), but the sudden severity of it all is just really strange. Answer this, why would scum make their first post that? It obviously wouldn't do anything towards getting Marv lynched. It would only bring negative attention towards himself. people that defend me frighten me. Why so scared?
The last 2 people that defended me were scum. They now im town so they defend me.
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On September 18 2012 10:50 Zephirdd wrote:Show nested quote +On September 18 2012 07:04 Hapahauli wrote:
... or it's not obvious at all, and it's a typical bad D1 case making insane meta connections with barely any samplesize?
If you're pressuring him or whatever, cool, but the case is in no way "damning" or "TOO obvious." In fact, I'd expect scum to be the people most willing to be jumping on BH's case without so much as a thought. Namely austinmcc and mementoss How does he defend prplhz? "Oh it's just bad play. hey maybe we should look at these two other players instead". A town player can never know if another player is just playing badly. A scum player, however, always does.I've done that countless times as scum. Dismissing a case on a townie by saying he isn't playing optimally, but not considering the fact that it could be a scum play. "The people most willing to jump on BH's case" are people who just agreed with a case that was just built early on. The thing about strong cases(I say BH had a strong case at that point) is that when you are scum and you recognize a case as a strong one, you will try to defend that townie in order to gain cred post-flip. The earlier you do it, the better, and if he is never lynched that townie will at least like you for a while. Hapahauli's main argument against BH's case is the sample size, where BH basically covered three months worth of games. Meta is not a productive argument when you go much farther back(I'd argue that three months was too much), and he says BH would need more research to have a good case.
BH has pretty much echoed my thoughts on Zephirdd's case on Hapahauli. It's not good at all and as pointed out by Hapa himself contains multiple misrepresentations (over the top/scummy kept coming up and that's just basic reading comprehension).
Further, the part of the case that I've just quoted makes almost no sense to me whatsoever. In the quote Zeph provides, where does Hapa say that prplhz is playing badly? He's saying he didn't like BH's case. A town player can very well know when another player is playing badly. For example, Zephirdd, you are playing badly whether you are town or scum.
The entire case is built on stretches and misrepresentations.
I would also like to talk about the retarded 'Zephirdd rule'. Let's break it down in essence - the first time someone says something stupid/bad/scummy, the first person to jump on it is scum. What does this actually mean? Town is supposed to let the first dumbass comment slide and only comment on the SECOND person being a dumbass/scummy? The whole rule basically proposes that the first person to be bad should be left untouched.
I also think that he's using this rule as an excuse to make a case without actually having to think about what's gone on in the thread properly. He's spotted something that adheres to his 'rule' and has then fabricated the rest of the case out of nothing.
Shame goodkarma is replacing out. His first post was scummy as hell. Not the general wishywashyness/not voting, but the fact that he was willing to talk about policy/trolling. I'm going to be keeping a close eye on his replacement. Look at this:
On September 18 2012 07:17 goodkarma wrote:
However, that prplhlz's play doesn't generate any meaningful discussion is a valid point. This is definitely scummy behavior.
On Policy Discussion:
As for how the game's started out: now for the last few games I've played in they start with trolling, which turns into hasty accusations, which then eventually turns into an actual game of scumhunting... We've already gone this direction again... I don't understand why policy has been so rarely brought up at the start of games (at least the games that I've played), as it is far more productive than trolling.
I'd like to briefly discuss policy here:
If for whatever reason we can't find someone who we feel has a decent chance of flipping scum, I propose we lynch a lurker. Tbh, I don't believe we will have this problem. But we should have some kind of contingency plan to fall back on if discussion, for whatever reason, takes us nowhere.
The thread has already generated a scumread for GK, but for some reason he's derailing into policy discussion. Look at what he says - policy discussion is far more productive than the direction this game has gone. But look at how this game has gone. This might be the most productive Day 1 I've ever seen. Why is he complaining about it?
As per usual I don't get BL's case on Mementoss. It looks like he's posting a load of unalignment indicative things and going "look! scum!". I'm pretty nullish on Mementoss right now.
With the high activity of some portions of the town, I think there's gonna be at least 1 scum sitting back and enjoying the show. At the moment this leaves me with mfkuba, Ange777, and HiroPro. I know fuba from outside of TL Mafia and at the moment I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt and see if he posts more. Ange just seems to be getting involved in the discussion, so fine. At the moment I'm looking at HiroPro.
Distinctly from the other two, he's actually been around posting, except what he's been posting is minimal and effortless. He voted for goodkarma but with barely an elaboration (I elaborated more above and that was just in passing). Other than that, he's posted a few times, but actually done nothing at all.
##Vote: HiroPro
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On September 18 2012 22:17 iamperfection wrote:Show nested quote +On September 18 2012 22:17 Ange777 wrote:How about you give your own scum reads iamperfection? On September 18 2012 10:29 iamperfection wrote:On September 18 2012 09:55 Mementoss wrote:On September 18 2012 09:54 Hapahauli wrote:
Well tbh, you could make that entire chart red - I lynched goodkarma in one game because I thought his play was "too clean" =P
But back to iamperfection, I'm definitely leaning scummy to him for now. I can't yet discount him just being plain pissed that you voted for him (a townie OMGUS type thing), but the sudden severity of it all is just really strange. Answer this, why would scum make their first post that? It obviously wouldn't do anything towards getting Marv lynched. It would only bring negative attention towards himself. people that defend me frighten me. Why so scared? The last 2 people that defended me were scum. They now im town so they defend me.
Ange's main point was "who are your scumreads". Answer it. Do something.
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Goodkarma has been replaced by Palmar.
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On September 18 2012 22:01 Ange777 wrote:@prplhz: Show nested quote +On September 18 2012 20:33 prplhz wrote:
Disclaimer: I don't read any analysis that refer to the "Zephirdd Rule" also known as the "Kenpachi Rule Extended" because I think it's bullshit.
Anyway, HapaHauli is playing active and townie and I have no interest in lynching him today. Ange777 is looking terrible though.
@Ange777 Have you been scum at any point and can you direct me to one of those games?
List of people who suck: Bluelightz, marvellosity. What makes you think my play is terrible? And why does thinking the Kenpachi/Zephirdd Rule is bullshit entitle you to just ignore cases? Just because someone posts bullshit does not mean that it can't help you uncover scum. Again I don't see any kind of scum hunting from you. Scum? + Show Spoiler +In my first game ever I rolled scum: Newbie XII. @Bluelightz: What makes you think that Mementoss is more scummy than prplhz? Your biggest concern seems to be that he has many different scum reads but that does not mean that he is not contributing. In contrary it is better than prplhz's filter who has not backed up his suspicions with an explanation at all.
Haven't read on him yet, and when I read the thread once I came back from school he didn't stick out, I'll get to reading him now and adjust my reads accordingly.
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@Bluelightz case
I understand you just went through all my filter, and basically resaid the things I posted. I don't see how it makes me scum, and adding SCUM! at the end doesn't make it make me scummy lol. In the future when making a case, you should outline how the quotes make the person scum and not re-iterate what the post says.
Can't say much more now since I'm at work.
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Blazinghand is town (I'm only at page 5).
prplhz could very well be scum. If he is, hapahauli is still town because he is defending him in a townie way.
austinmcc is scum. I present the following post as evidence.
On September 18 2012 06:55 austinmcc wrote:Show nested quote +On September 18 2012 06:50 Hapahauli wrote:
If mafia would like to keep hypothetical townie-marv alive to the endgame because of my "policy lynch," then awesome! Mission accomplished! Though in all seriousness, I've read through quite a few of his recent games. He never lives as town past N3 (barring Mad Men Mafia where he was a replacement) in his recent games. If he's alive a long time, there's a very high chance (IMO basically guaranteed chance) of him flipping red.
<3 everyone at all, but you need to look further. He's generally not being killed off for supersexy scumhunting, but because he comes off as very townie and is generating a lot of discussion/activity from others. His early reads, although I haven't read recent games, are not generally a big threat to mafia.
Show nested quote +On September 18 2012 06:50 Blazinghand wrote:
Hey pudding-munchers stop arguing about that and read my case I don't know how anyone can munch on pudding. I DO kind of like that observation. It feels almost TOO obvious but...man it's kind of damning.
I very much agree with BH's case, but I need to read more. The only problem I have is austin's reaction as I feel like maybe we should just lynch him instead.
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oh I see hapa and BH are buddies. Nice job guys if this was resistance we'd autowin now.
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iamperfection is town too, he probably doesn't have the cojones to suggest a random lynch as scum.
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EPT
