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To answer questions/points I think merit a reply:
First, if you feel I have been non-committal or weak in my play then I can only apologise and say this is my first game and I am definitely learning as I go. That is not an excuse, but it is the most likely explanation for "weak" town play on my part. I think Kreb, Drazak & Sonic are town, everyone else I am currently suspicious of.
I can't make a case that I am satisfied with on any of the other players that is substantially different from the other cases at the moment. My post on Stutters was also about Kush and Xatalos - both of whom ignored it - although Xatalos may just not have seen it. Kush is not getting lynched today because too much difficulty. I don't think Xatalos or Kville are bad lynches.
2. In regards to Jacob, yes I am still suspicious of him but his filter is hard, his posting style is mostly a ridiculous stream of conscience style where he links half a dozen disparate thoughts together in the same paragraph and it is a real pain to read. I would not say I "dropped" the issue however, I continue to complain about his posting style in my later posts and I am doing my best to keep slogging through his filter. But he was clearly not getting lynched day1 or today, unless I developed an incredible water-tight case, which I don't have. Soo I am letting him lie for the moment as I don't want to get distracted with yet another separate lynch target today. (He also responded to me pushing him early by essentially pushing, demanding answers and then saying "oh well I wasn't sure about you I was just pushing you for answers" - and now he is back to lynching me again. Obviously, to me this looks pretty scummy - but it is useless for building a case as at the very most 1 other player knows I am town)
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Edit: btw sorry "merit a reply" sounds a bit arrogant - "needed a reply" might be better
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If it is between Kville and Xatalos - I would rather lynch Kville at the moment. Xatalos has atleast got a semi-plausible excuse for why he is inactive and has said he could be more active at the weekend - his play to me seems somewhat consistent with someone who hasn't got enough time to play 100%.
Kville has twice come into the thread at the last minute offering a weak defence and trying to deflect a lynch, as kreb wrote it has been clear for 48h that he might be lynched today and he has done nothing to defend himself - yet he pops up again just like on d1 with an attempt to deflect the lynch away from himself. Of the two I think he is a better bet.
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Voting for yourself with the reason: It says I may vote for my self. Correct? I am making a statement. If you wanna have a vote from me today then it will be the same as voting for myself. becuase eitjer way we are going to losea town today.
Is pretty much my definition of a weak defence - you were obviously not going to propose another target as you had said that you were not in favour of a D1 lynch - but you knew everyone else disagreed with this and that if you were not lynched then someone else would be.
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... well that is annoying. I agree that the reason that we ended up with a Xatalos v Kville situation was because we were all accusing each other. I said at the start of the day I really hoped that we could come up with a better lynch target.. but we did not. Scum have succeeded in thoroughly bamboozling me I have to say. I will look into the thread this evening and I'll be happy to answer questions from those who have suspicions of me.
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I agree with jacob(!) that my scum-hunting has not been good enough to date. That is why I did not mention scumhunting this morning because I was going to be busy today and not have time to do it properly. I am confident SDM & Kreb are town - and despite the arguments I have had with jacob in the past. I think me dying is pretty unlikely given the number of people suspicious of me so there should be plenty of time for me to do it properly tomorrow and try to prove that I am not scum.
I have not been trying to "avoid things most days" I have been trying to lynch scum - here is my view of what happened d2: I responded to Jacob to try and stop his suspicions of me. I posted a case (not a good enough one) against the player who I thought/think is likley mafia. kush/drazerk did not seem likely to be lynchd d2 so I ignored this. Stutters came back strongly against the weaknesses in my case, to the extent that a lynch on him was unlikley. It was lynch time and the choice was between kville who had played terribly all game and xatalos who had an excuse for inactivity.
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Kush has so far pushed Drazak, Kreb & Cubu - &FOS's xatalos. Leaving aside Xatalos, that is a 100% miss rate so far and now you are pushing me because my reads are too safe and non-committal. Welp, that is pretty funny. I have no idea why town should trust anything you say at this point.
Also - I have no idea why you are asking that question because the vig has only one shot?
I agree.with sonic that we should roelclaim at this point - we need all the info we can get because if we mislynch again we lose
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On September 08 2012 20:19 Sonic Death Monkey wrote:
Where did I say we should roleclaim?
Sorry it was kreb in his night post - for some reason I thought it was in your long post on p32 but actually it was his suggestion just above on the page... Without devoting time to setup speculation I think it is reasonable to assume that we have a cop given that a miller has flipped, and he could help us out today if he so chose. That said, it is clearly for the cop to decide whether to claim and others to go from there. If the cop (if there is one) doesn’t want to claim for whatever reasons then a “forced” roleclaim is no good.
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Exactly.
Kush - your question to the mod was established that Kreb could have been the vig and that therefore any claim couldn't be trusted. (Though I misinterpreted and thought you thought they had more than 1 shot) - You knew this then you make a post saying: There's nothing wrong with revealing him. I'm pretty certain it's iamcasey, although the vigi only having 1 shot makes me less certain.
!!there is no reason why vigi shouldn't roleclaim at this point.!!
I doubt mafia would risk a counterclaim and we could have a confirmed town.
This is the largest single failure of logic in this thread... the only reason I am not calling this a scumslip is that it is almost too blatant. What on earth were you trying to achieve with this second post?
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oh dear - you are right... should have refreshed before posting now I look like the idiot.
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to be lynched. If you're actually town, it's crucial that you convince everyone of your own innocence. If you're Mafia, don't bother!
Yes I agree, however I am currently trying to figure out how to do that. Mafia only needs 1 townie to vote against me in order to force mislynch me and win, which means is I need to convince all of town (so far my cases have failed to convince one person) or at least convince mafia that a bus is less risky than pushing for the win. I think stutters case against me is fair - but please whether you think what it actually proves is not that I am a mafia who knows who is town - but town who doesn't know who the Mafia is and isn't that good at scum hunting.
Unsurprisingly I think stutters is mafia and he is my best read)- he has made his case against me but if you look at things from my perspective he has actually contributed very little. Before that point he was high on several other people's suspicions and had contributed very little.
I think everyone agrees his day one play is awful - but going back I am amazed just how bad it was:
+ Show Spoiler + His schtick to start is that a low post count is not a sign of a mafia and that: If I was a scum I wouldn't put myself in a position to be lynched by posting once or twice than bouncing for a day when you guys make it so easy to hide without committing to anything. All I'd have to do is post a list of everyone and sheep on townish people and say well he hasn't posted a lot so I'm not sure (which is later exactly how he will accuse me of playing) Then he switches and low post counts and bouncing for the day is exactly what scum would be doing. why has no one called KVille out on the fact that all he's done is avoided a modkill two days ago and posted zip since then? At the very least step up and say that if he doesn't step up his game he's going to die D2 or something in case he really has been busy. Golbat lived til D4 like this last game as a scum doing the exact same thing. He's managed to drop 6 posts in his other game of mafia but he can't spend 5 minutes here? unless Cubu comes back and posts some content I think he's our best lynch today.He's provided nothing.
Then there is essentially nothing until my case, at which point he posts a case about me being non-committal and weak - Before this point he has added nothing to the game until he is accused of being mafia.
At this point he becomes hyper defensive and answers a lot of questions with what look like good answers - but if you are me at this point in the game and know he is almost certainly scum - they don't look that great to me they explain some of his reasoning as if he was a townie -so what- they don't seriously attempt to atone for his play d1 and I know that his "top 2" scum reads are both town and one of them (kville) he has almost no work to do on it because of how terrible his play was. So after I gave him an easy out he can re-enter the thread and go back to not contributing anything except super obvious stuff about kville and a meaningless conversation w the late appearing kville when most euro players have gone to bed.
It seems that apart from jacob, who has been onandoff me all game - all of you only started to be suspicious of me after stutters case. Even if you are 90% sure I am mafia and you want to lynch me - you should be demanding more from stutters as well and asking why you are following the lead of a player who gave town nothing until he felt prodded by me.
Again, I need to convince all of town of this if we are not to lose tonight…. My plea is when you are trying to judge between us try to see the game from my perspective as town. Stutters posting is confident and gives town nothing. My posting has been hesitant and trying to contribute.
If Stutters and I are both town then mafia won this game along time ago because unless we both have damascene conversions to each others innocence mafia can just put their three votes with his/mine and win. This is my best attempt at showing you stutters from my perspective… other than trying to answer any questions you have I don't know what else I can do. I think jacob is town and one of the most suspicious of me, so I am obviously particularly interested in convincing him, as with his vote mafia don't even need anyone else.
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lol stutters claiming vig? Assuming there is no counter claim that messes up my mafia team.
This is all probably academic though as I still have no idea how I am meant to defend myself at this point against the case that I was "too indecisive and safe" in my play earlier to your satisfaction. As I said - I was quite indecisive, because I was town and didn't know who was mafia!
I think it is very unlikely that I'll get jacob & kush to vote against me and assuming one of them is not mafia that is game. 
I will try and stay up as close as possible to the deadline and answer any questions you have out of native optimism that we might not have lost... If the voting is not close I will probably vote for kush symbolically because I feel like he has maybe played a great mafia game. If there is a chance of saving me I'll vote for stutters (if there is a counter claim) or imcasey who is my second choice as mafia... his posts d2 were not great scum-hunting - they pointed out inconsistencies in people's play - but I don't think they were inconsistencies that actually made sense from the perspective of finding mafia. I think he was just doing the minimum to stay alive and add some confusion to the thread.
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Prior to the vig call my scum team was stutters & two of three of kush, imcasey & xatalos....
But a stutters vig call (which I am inclined to believe because the breadcrumb is good and would make no sense for a mafia action as it would require guessing correctly both the target and that the vig was going to shoot) throws everything off. Since I said I would vote kush symbolically I have been thinking abit more about what the vig claim means.
I don't think you are scum & so with me, you and stutters that leaves 4 players: sonic/imcasey/xatalos/kush. Rereading Sonics filter from the perspective of stutters being a confirmed townie makes me put in him that group - while I thought stutters was mafia his consistent attacks on stutters and partial defence of me made him seem town to me - but if stutters is also town I don't know his filter is very good at all from a town perspective
At the moment I am not sure which 3 are the mafia and which is the townie - but in a sense that does not matter tonight because I doubt I can convince all of town to vote for Kush/Sonic tonight (although if someone can...)
I would like to hear from you & stutters who you think is a better lynch out of Xatalos and imcasey. I think imcasey is better because Xatalos's recent posts this weekend have been quite balanced and they read to me like someone who doesn't know who the scum is trying to work it out - rather than scum trying to ensure that the lynch on me (which still looks pretty likley to happen) goes ahead.
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Ok, well obviously I am going to mirror your vote 
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argh how long is somehours? unfortunately I am entertaining for lunch so I am away from now until atleast 2-3 hours. I hope you are still around then.
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ok, I got back about 10 minutes ago and started writing a "don't trust me, but trust jacob" post. But that is unnecessary now (I will paste in what I wrote if jacob/kush/stutters want though) but for me, this game is over - kush is town, jacob is town, stutters is town & I am town.
If Kush is mafia his performance over the last page (and most of the game tbh) has been incredible.. I don't think he is - looking at the difference between Xatalos and Kush over the last page it is clear from my perspective who is town and who is risking a limp into d3...
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I am here - I don't see much point in me replying to you - but again if jacob/kush/stutters ask me to then I will.
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Yesssss, I think thats what you call a clutch save? . Mafia is soo done.
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I am here, excited that town is going to win this. Most of D3 I thought we were going to lose this game and we hadn't found a single scum - so I was pretty active then trying to convince you I was town and that there were better targets.
But today there (almost certainly) is one mafia and one town from me and Xatalos. I kind of think you 2 have to make up your own minds about which of us is town - I can post a case against Xatalos if they would like me to, and of course I want to help them any way I can with questions or whatever - but I think Kush & stutter have to direct the thread because it is their decision and I don't want to unnecessarily end up fighting with Xatalos in a way that does not bring clarity/ is not helpfull to them. To me it is as clear as it can be that reading your filter alongside sonic& imcasey's that you are the last scum Xatalos. Hopefully stutters agrees with Kush, Jacob (&me!)
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ok then, - I am going to check into the thread once more before I go to bed in about 5/6 hours just incase stutters has an earth shattering revalation - otherwise all I am doing ATM is searching for the best reaction gif to post tomorrow incase it turns out that Kush is mafia (which it won't but the idea appeals to my sense of awesome).
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EPT
