Death Note Mini Mafia

On August 31 2012 12:43 Hopeless1der wrote:

Damnit Hiro, that was the secret ninja policy!
And @ Hapa - Good on you for being outrageous. Completely necessary this early in the game. As for your vote...haha?

On September 01 2012 01:17 strongandbig wrote:
Well, I still find Hapahauli's posts about Hopeless suspicious. I agree that blackmamba's case on him was bad, but don't forget that the original reason for suspicion on him was that interaction. Anyone care to comment on that side of things? Like, am I just up a tree here or was he being kinda sketch?

On August 31 2012 12:48 Hapahauli wrote:
Tbh Hopeless, I really don't understand that line from you (that i referenced in my vote post). It's like you're suggesting that you'll need to be reminded and that you won't be attentive to your own lurking. Care to clarify?

On September 01 2012 01:21 Mementoss wrote:
I'm not too fond of the way ghost has been defending mamba at every chance he gets. It's fine to defend a player if you don't think they're town but leave it at that. Cause when he comes back to the thread he can just mirror the things that ghost said to defend him, or otherwise there is at least a lot less pressure on him to give an adquete response about his case and such. That being said, most of ghosts talk so far has been on this, so I would like to ask him if he had to make a vote now, who would it be and why?

My opinion on this BMB fiasco is that he seems a bit scummy to me. His posts just rub me the wrong way and his case was bad. I'm not going to go much farther into this as it's already been fleshed out by many but I'll be interested in seeing a response from him. The way he talks about his personal scum preferences is odd, and the question to the hosts could just be a scam to make himself look town, when he actually knew the answer because he received this fake role. I think the case was bad and forced from a scum perspective because if you look through his early filter he realized he was talking a lot, but it was purely filler, and was scared of getting called out on it soon, so he decided to make a case up so no one would call him out for "contributing without actually saying much".

I agree that Risen's play is not his normal town play, of guns blazing and doing crazy shit to get reactions out.

If we are going to set the tone here that lurking is unacceptable as town we might as well start day one, and try to set ourselves up for a winning situation later in the game. Also based on his less than stellar game history... So for now..

##Vote: Mr.Zentor

Also I think that people should be giving their gut thoughts and put in a vote at the start of each day, so we can discuss our way through the best person for the lynch throughout the day. People don't seem to realize how short a 24 hour cycle is, so getting a vote in ASAP is important for discussion and consolidation on voting out a scum. Obviously this is impossible to do on day 1, but I think it should be done for further days.

On September 01 2012 02:07 Mementoss wrote:


I don't know what else to say to you. I don't think ghost is scum, though I didn't like the way he defended bmb. BMB has been getting constantly talked about and called scum by every second person. I want to give him a chance to respond to the thread. Voting Mr.Zentor is going to make him post something I think is worthy of him showing that he is going to make an attempt at being useful this game. You've officially went from soft defending Zentor to hard defending him, in an aggressive way against me. Guess you voting him at the start of the game was two scum buddy buddying around in the thread?

+ Show Spoiler +

but Mementoss displays a clear disconnect in the way that he perceives Zentor (on one hand being someone he needs to see more from, on the other hand as a scumbuddy of Hapa)

On September 01 2012 06:50 Hapahauli wrote:
@ HiroPro - given Mementoss's recent posts, you still think he's scummy?

On September 01 2012 05:54 HiroPro wrote:


you didn't address this. Nor did you explain why you said hapa was soft/hard defending Zentor.

You're scummy mostly because of the way you reacted to some simple questions (spreading nonsense about soft defenses and trying to use that to call someone scummy).


Ill read the stuff on Shady when I get to my computer.

On September 01 2012 06:55 Hapahauli wrote:
Howbout this stuff?
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=363625&currentpage=13#258

Solid post, good logic, and I agree with most of what he says (still believe BM24 to be more scummy than Shady). Shouldn't that absolve him a bit?

On September 01 2012 07:04 Mementoss wrote:
"In the middle of this post, Mementoss says that he voted for Mr. Zentor in order to get him to post something useful, indicating that he has no clear view of Mr. Zentor's alignment. However, right after that Mementoss accuses Hapahauli of soft/hard defending Mr. Zentor and being his scumbuddy. Not only does this not make any sense, as the only posts that Hapahuli has made about Zentor are asking Mementoss why he voted for him, but Mementoss displays a clear disconnect in the way that he perceives Zentor (on one hand being someone he needs to see more from, on the other hand as a scumbuddy)."

To answer HiroPro. I occasionally say aggressive statements like this for people I'm null for to get some sort of reaction out of them and can make another opinion on them based on how they react. Sometimes it's been the case that people on the same scum team avoid communication in the thread or joke around with each other in the thread to lessen the distance between them. "Then... you vote Mr.Zentor for lurking? What?" This is what I considered to be a soft defense, trying to take the heat off him from that moment. "What does voting MrZentor even do, when you find other people suspicious?" Then implying that I am voting him for no reason and downplaying it, is what I considered a harder defense. As obviously I had a reason for doing it, and explaining it basically takes away all effectiveness of the action.

I hope that clears it up to you hiro.

On September 01 2012 08:14 strongandbig wrote:


##vote palmar

Like, the number of times people have told me that "being lazy" is palmar's scum meta...

I can't really accept missing the whole first day and then jumping back in with the most random freaking unreasoned explicit sheep vote I've ever seen.

I'm not really concerned at the moment with "viable candidates". I don't think any of the main cases are stronger than my gut reaction to what palmar just did.

If this is "a trap" palmar, then consider yourself successful, you caught me. By playing as scummy as possible, you trapped me and convinced me that you are scum. Huzzah.

Now, I'm going to bed. See you guys tomorrow if I live.

On September 01 2012 08:18 Risen wrote:


Hiro read what I just posted. Scum Palmar would want you to think just that. Then again, maybe it's town Palmar being town Palmar. Who knows?

He's doing it because he can, because in the past he's been able to get away with bad play like this. People like you enable him to have free reign in games, regardless of alignment.

On September 01 2012 08:27 Shady Sands wrote:


Hiro, now that I've done what you asked me to and responded to MT, what is your read on Ghost?

On September 01 2012 07:04 Mementoss wrote:
"In the middle of this post, Mementoss says that he voted for Mr. Zentor in order to get him to post something useful, indicating that he has no clear view of Mr. Zentor's alignment. However, right after that Mementoss accuses Hapahauli of soft/hard defending Mr. Zentor and being his scumbuddy. Not only does this not make any sense, as the only posts that Hapahuli has made about Zentor are asking Mementoss why he voted for him, but Mementoss displays a clear disconnect in the way that he perceives Zentor (on one hand being someone he needs to see more from, on the other hand as a scumbuddy)."

To answer HiroPro. I occasionally say aggressive statements like this for people I'm null for to get some sort of reaction out of them and can make another opinion on them based on how they react. Sometimes it's been the case that people on the same scum team avoid communication in the thread or joke around with each other in the thread to lessen the distance between them. "Then... you vote Mr.Zentor for lurking? What?" This is what I considered to be a soft defense, trying to take the heat off him from that moment. "What does voting MrZentor even do, when you find other people suspicious?" Then implying that I am voting him for no reason and downplaying it, is what I considered a harder defense. As obviously I had a reason for doing it, and explaining it basically takes away all effectiveness of the action.

I hope that clears it up to you hiro.

On September 01 2012 08:52 ghost_403 wrote:


Reading it the way I think it's meant to be read, I think it's gibberish. Is that really what MMToss was trying to get across?

Then... you vote Mr.Zentor for lurking? What?

What does voting MrZentor even do, when you find other people suspicious?

On September 01 2012 09:25 Hapahauli wrote:


Because it was too easy. After tunneling MMtoss the entire game, HP was satisfied with just that post? Seriously? I call BS.

On September 01 2012 09:46 Hapahauli wrote:
@BM24 - still disagree? I mean think about it, a bunch of people still think MMToss is scummy despite his other posts... and HiroPro changed his mind so easily? Really?

On September 01 2012 09:37 HiroPro wrote:


Hi, I changed my mind. That doesn't make me scum. That just means I actually rethink my cases and consider what other people write when they make responses. Mementoss addressed my point because he provided a valid example of what he considered to be soft defenses (""Then... you vote Mr.Zentor for lurking? What? and "What does voting MrZentor even do, when you find other people suspicious?") and he provided a valid reasoning for why he would call Hapa+Zentor scumbuddies like that ("I occasionally say aggressive statements like this for people I'm null for to get some sort of reaction out of them and can make another opinion on them based on how they react.").

On September 01 2012 09:47 HiroPro wrote:


Because they thought Mementoss was scum for reasons other than mine... Mementoss addressed my major concern with his play fine.

On September 01 2012 10:02 Hopeless1der wrote:
Okay well BMB has already gone through why Hapa's case doesn't demonstrate Hiro to be scummy.
Hapa still has a point regarding who does Hiro think is scum.
Hiro? If your around, we'd be much obliged.

On September 01 2012 11:14 Risen wrote:


Is there a reason you trust his claim 100%? I don't see why a scum would lie about that, but I don't know why a townie would openly claim that, either, unless L told him to.

On September 01 2012 11:23 Solarsail wrote:


Leaves a statement of my intent on the voting record. Since all your choices for lynches are completely terrible.

PRE-EDIT: I should be a little bit more specific. I don't know whether checks on me will return scum or town - all I'm told is that some checks on me will return scum instead of town. I speculate that there are different types of DT check in this game and I am only a miller to some of them - maybe L has special DT powers, and one of their advantages is that they are immune to some or all millers? I also don't know whether it's likely to have more than one or two millers in such a small setup, but having a lot of DT power roles could mean we have more millers than normal. If there are other self-aware millers, they should claim asap as well, or else never claim at all.

This means that 'suspicious detective' isn't just a name for a "miller" role. It's a result of checks people can get.

On September 02 2012 00:11 marvellosity wrote:


so mafia show up as suspicious detective maybe?

On September 02 2012 00:14 Mementoss wrote:


Im a bit lost, about this suspicious detective thing. Why don't you believe him can you give some clarification?

On September 02 2012 00:33 Node wrote:


So you're saying it is possible for a check to return Suspicious Detective?

On September 02 2012 00:34 Risen wrote:
If you had claimed everything you're now saying at the start maybe it would be believable. Saying it AFTER being called out and AFTER seeing what Palmar flipped seems disingenuous.

I speculate that there are different types of DT check in this game and I am only a miller to some of them - maybe L has special DT powers, and one of their advantages is that they are immune to some or all millers?

On September 02 2012 02:01 strongandbig wrote:
How about this - we kill ghost today because he's scum. Hiro or some other DT checks me tonight. I come back town and we realize I'm telling the truth?

On September 02 2012 08:10 Shady Sands wrote:
After reading through the thread, here are my thoughts.

On SnB: I would suggest the cop check him. Hunting someone off a single claim like that as opposed to actual scummy behavior is a null tell, in my opinion, especially given that this game has rules so different from a normal mafia game. Heck, I'm not even sure about how the whole "suspicious detective" and "right arm detective" mechanic is supposed to work. It could be entirely possible that SnB got a different miller subtype than what Palmar got, or that Palmar was a traitor and not a miller, or he was a townie that was set up by a Mafia Framer with delayed flip.

On September 02 2012 05:41 HiroPro wrote:


No

1. You're lying scum
2. I wasn't given a check today to waste on you.
3. I'm probably getting shot tomorrow.

On September 02 2012 10:53 MrZentor wrote:
Na, I don't think scum knew he was the traitor.

On September 02 2012 11:05 Node wrote:


I disagree strongly. I think s&b's claim was made at least partially to alert scum that he was a traitor. Put yourself in Kira's position -- you're probably aware that you have at least one supporter hidden among the detectives. Who looks most likely? I'd have to imagine it's the person who claims they're going to start appearing red at some point to checks.

On September 01 2012 05:56 MrZentor wrote:

Let's assume that you, the reader, are a vanilla town. (If you're mafia say "I am not mafia in your next post.")

Good. You just got your pm from Zephirdd.

It's says that you're a detective, in green, so it's obvious that you're just a vanilla town.

Why would you ever post in that in the thread? One of the many uses of the vanilla town is to act like a meat shield for the blues. You want scum to think you're blue.
You want them to kill you instead of killing a blue.

Now you're scum.

Zephirdd has given you the information that the vanilla townsperson is a "detective".

Now all you have to do is to allude to being a detective in the thread of free town cred. (yayyyy!!)

---

So why did Palmar say what he said?

And why is he acting so ignorant?

On September 03 2012 03:42 marvellosity wrote:


Hiro - to the bit I bolded: ironic, isn't it?

On September 03 2012 04:27 ghost_403 wrote:
Hey Zentor, why am I scum again? Looking through your filter, I can't find a good reason, other than I voted to lynch my scumbuddy good friend guy I met at a coffee shop once known as StrongAndBig.

On September 03 2012 05:00 marvellosity wrote:
Hiro/hopeless/fuba, what do you make of ghost?

My theory that totally makes sense.

Ghost-Scum
Risen-Scum that knows SnB is traitor, so he kills SnB the traitor, instead of Ghost his scum buddy. (SnB didn't know who the kira was, but Risen knew SnB was the traitor)

So that's two confirmed scum.

On September 01 2012 12:46 BlackMamba24 wrote:
I have been instructed by L to tell the thread that L's servant has disposed of Hapahauli.

His scummiest action is lazily voting for you based on Zentor's connection theory.

On September 05 2012 08:20 marvellosity wrote:
that's why I'm pressuring you, because I remembered your laziness comment in PTP obsQT. The end of the game is the most important time as the importance of lynches gets even greater. Your opinion/position holds a lot of weight and so you should use it with responsibility, not abdicate to the rest of town.

You're right about Hopeless' post timings today and his vote on ghost is very weak. And Node I think is heading for a modkill today at this rate.

Could you re-read fuba's case, and my subsequent comments (as well as in the back and forth with ghost) and say why Hopeless is particularly scummier than Node?

Most significantly, there's also the fact that earlier in the game he says that he doesn't see anything scummy about Hiro, then votes for Risen. In the most recent vote, when we're all diving on top of Risen, he suddenly finds Hiro to be more scummy. He doesn't explain this, or at least tries to explain it extremely poorly in his single post from yesterday. Why is he suddenly not believing HiroPro when he states in his reasoning for the MrZentor lynch that he's "...going to have to go with L and Hiro on [that] one."?

He also says before he gets lynched that a ghost/Hiro team looks likely to him -- a flip-flop of his earlier position. It's pretty easy to see that as deflecting suspicion off a scumbuddy, especially after he lightly defended him earlier.

On September 07 2012 00:41 Risen wrote:
I wish I had pulled off my L fakeclaim :/

FUCKING MAMBA AND L VIGI POWERS!!!! Rofl. I would have pulled it off, too. Node was with me, fuba would have been with me, last second marvel swap and boom. Scum just wins.