Well first, I want to flesh out the connection business a bit more:
+ Show Spoiler +On August 31 2012 22:35 ghost_403 wrote:
Risen's play this game is a little off from the Risen we all know and love. Not sure exactly why as of yet. Could be it's just been a while since he's played. On August 31 2012 23:27 ghost_403 wrote:
Risen is very aggressive in Mafia when he plays town. He's abrasive and abusive and plays hard. In this game, I haven't seen that quite yet. I'm still trying to decide why that is. It could just be that we're 12 hours into the game, and he hasn't had an opportunity to call anyone stupid yet. On September 01 2012 03:49 ghost_403 wrote:
Can't change my mind on Risen until he comes back and starts acting more or less Risen. On September 01 2012 09:04 ghost_403 wrote:
Next, Risen is a bit off. Everyone said that. Next!
On September 02 2012 00:23 ghost_403 wrote:
Hey guys!
Scum: MMToss, Risen, and S+B. I'm not convinced that's the scum team by any stretch, but those are the people in the thread I think are acting scummy. (Side note: I have no idea how many scum there are in this game at all. I'm assuming there is a team?) MMToss is a carry over from yesterday. No part of how the day played out makes me change my opinion on him. S+B, I'll comment on that at the end (new stuff in thread between when I started writing and finished writing).
As far as Risen, Node is right. We have to hold him accountable for his part in the Palmar lynch. As town, Risen is aggressive and abrasive. As scum, Risen worships chaos (See TLM LIII). This is looking a lot more like scum Risen. Pressure him today and watch what happens.
On September 03 2012 04:47 ghost_403 wrote:
Also, he completely missed the reason that I though Risen was scum. Risen is not playing to his meta. Based on my own time constraints, I didn't have time to write out to the thread exactly why I believed that. I was putting it out there and hoping someone else would take the time to decide if I was right or wrong.
+ Show Spoiler +Hoping someone else would do my dirty work OH MAH GAD A SCUM RISEN APPEARS. Oh wait: On September 03 2012 04:57 ghost_403 wrote:
Risen still seems off to me, and I need to put some time into reading his filter in order to figure out what's going on with him.
NEVERMIND NOTHING TO SEE HERE.
Really soft view of Risen, pretty much all game long. Finally commits to the vote when all seem lost:
On September 04 2012 05:28 ghost_403 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2012 02:53 Risen wrote:+ Show Spoiler +IAMA Scum Team Member. Ask me anything! ((On a more serious note, gg scum, I honestly didn't see it coming)) 8 hours to endgame?  ##vote HiroPro so I can claim I did my best to play to my win condition. Show nested quote +On September 04 2012 03:43 Risen wrote:+ Show Spoiler +EBWOP: I'm L and thought I could trust the cop claim, but didn't want to make him my rhm b/c then a single scum shot wipes out my rhm and my "cop". I'm a "mason" who gets one use per day and only to my rhm who is selected and then can't be changed unless he dies. Picked mamba b/c he was my strongest town read who wasn't liable to get offed immediately. Then I chose marvel b/c I was just hydra'd with him last game and I was getting town vibes off him. The problem with my power is that I only get to send a message for the next day the day before.
I know HiroPro is one of the remaining scum b/c cop checks on me return detective. There are no framers in this setup. There are a lot of ways I could have played this differently and honestly I wish I hadn't been made L b/c I raged a lot day 1 at Palmar. I'm willing to accept a lot of the blame for that lynch and subsequently losing the game, but I think Palmar is just as equally to blame.
Turns out it ISN'T mylo or lylo, but the game is over after I'm lynched by my reasoning.
There's 7 of us left. I think there's 2 scum left (two scum, one traitor makes sense to me balance-wise)
So that makes it 5-2. Mislynch today makes it 4-2, they get one kill tomorrow (I'm sending up fifty prayers it's only one and the other kills the past two days have been traitor and a hidden vig somewhere), makes it 3-2 (Ghost is getting shot if he's town for reasons explained one paragraph down). HiroPro gets lynched, makes it 3-1, now scum just needs one mislynch. 2-1, scum shoots someone, 1-1, game over.
So it turns out it isn't mylo. The remaining townies are going to have a 33% chance if they RNG their target. Odds are that the final four are going to be Node, marvel, fuba, hopeless. Who do you lynch out of that group? None of you have contributed jack shit. It's going to be "Let's play a game called RNG the lurker lynch woooo!"
I screwed up this game. I admit it fully, but at least I didn't screw us over by lurking and creating this stupid situation in the endgame where everyone remaining is a lurker or by trolling day 1 so I get lynched stupidly. Dat pause. ##vote risenAnother stupidly busy day. I'm hoping to be back before the deadline. I'm really interested to know how a town Marv is still alive. FYI, he's my day 4 policy lynch. Gotta look into that.
Ghost still hasn't provided a solid case in this game. We waited too long for his read on MMtoss for that to count. He's planning to 'policy lynch' Marv on Day4. dafuq man. When I said I'd need to see an excellent case on someone else, I'd still consider one if its ghost who makes it, but he's my strongest scumread at the moment.
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On September 05 2012 08:44 HiroPro wrote:Show nested quote +On September 05 2012 08:20 marvellosity wrote:
that's why I'm pressuring you, because I remembered your laziness comment in PTP obsQT. The end of the game is the most important time as the importance of lynches gets even greater. Your opinion/position holds a lot of weight and so you should use it with responsibility, not abdicate to the rest of town.
You're right about Hopeless' post timings today and his vote on ghost is very weak. And Node I think is heading for a modkill today at this rate.
Could you re-read fuba's case, and my subsequent comments (as well as in the back and forth with ghost) and say why Hopeless is particularly scummier than Node? uh, I don't really agree with ghost's reasons for thinking Node is town (the aggressiveness aspect). Node is an experienced player, he's not going to have any trouble playing aggressive and fearlessly as mafia... Now admittedly I've never seen Node play. fuba's case on Node: I don't find the traitor discussion stuff alignment-indicative. If there is a good reason to lynch Node though, I think this pretty much sums it up: Show nested quote +
Most significantly, there's also the fact that earlier in the game he says that he doesn't see anything scummy about Hiro, then votes for Risen. In the most recent vote, when we're all diving on top of Risen, he suddenly finds Hiro to be more scummy. He doesn't explain this, or at least tries to explain it extremely poorly in his single post from yesterday. Why is he suddenly not believing HiroPro when he states in his reasoning for the MrZentor lynch that he's "...going to have to go with L and Hiro on [that] one."?
Hopeless over Node? Mostly just a gut feeling based on the fact that (except for the last lynch between Risen and me) Node has had solid reasons to back himself up. But like it's really not that strong.
I hate that I neglect to make my thoughts known if I'm not pressured. It's like what Hiro's doing right now except I've been doing it all game. This is entirely my fault and its probably the driving factor behind why I look scummy, but I've pretty much skated by without having to do much, and I've continuously gotten away with it. We've relied almost exclusively on Hiro being a boss.
When I threw out my vote on Shady, literally NOTHING was said to me about why I did it. It's only now come up as a point of I don't explain myself properly.
Supposedly my vote on ghost is weak, but did all of the cases against ghost suddenly disappear?
Marv:
+ Show Spoiler +On September 03 2012 04:42 marvellosity wrote:Why ghost is scum: 1) How he pressured Hapa for his vote on BM24. Any of you reading the thread know that I had a back and forth with him about it, and it's basically because it didn't seem his view was from a particularly townie mindset - remember ghost had BMB24 marked down as scum in his s/s, but was pressuring Hapa for voting for him? It doesn't add up. 2) He had a really weak vote on Mementoss. And he doesn't give an actual proper reason for his post until he's made several more posts in between. Show nested quote +On September 01 2012 08:36 ghost_403 wrote:Alright, let's see what happened while I was gone. For reference, MMToss' defenseSo far, nothing has convinced me to take my vote off of MMToss. His defense against the people voting him amounted to "the people voting for me are lazy/stupid, oh and here's someone I think is scum". I really can't see a town player posting his defense in such a way. By the way, Shady's not scum. See Newbie Mini Mafia XXV. He's not acting like that in this game at all. At this stage, we don't even really know why ghost's vote is on Mementoss in the first place. There's a misplaced conviction. He finally gives reasons for the Mem lynch (which amounted to him rehashing a Mementoss post), probably when it dawns on him he can't just vote for no reason. 3) Mementoss picked up on ghost's long post and I followed up on it. There are things that don't make sense from a townie mindset, like where he voted s&b, but if s&b was town, I somehow got scummier (even though he was voting him too) 4) In that same post, he says this: "Looks like S+B probably fakeclaimed miller. Ballsy play on his part. This pushes Hiro to town read, and confirms what I suspected on S+B." Confirms what he suspected? How can it confirm something that was never really brought to the thread? :/ Earlier he said his play had been 'a bit off', and also: Show nested quote +On September 01 2012 03:49 ghost_403 wrote:
Still not quite sure of what I think of S+B. I haven't seen a scum player make a legit fakeclaim for a long time, so based on the metagame, I'm inclined to believe him when he claimed miller. However, you're right, his posts have been a little bit off. That's why I really want him to chime in on the MMToss situation. All these points aren't massively strong by themselves, but added altogether I think it shows that ghost is scum.
MMToss and Shady's (Quoted by MMToss)
+ Show Spoiler +On September 02 2012 01:24 Mementoss wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2012 00:23 ghost_403 wrote:
Hey guys!
What's going on in this thread!
Today is crazy for me, so I'm going to be making one post today, and that's it.
Thoughts on NKs: I'm thinking Hapa was a town KP due to the flavor, and BMB was the scum KP. Knowing this is not particularly enlightening. I don't put any more faith in BMB's reads (or any less in Hapa's) because of this. Obviously, BMB was killed because he was acting very town. Look through his filter and use it as a town biased viewpoint. Don't ignore what dead townies have to say.
I can't believe the town let Palmar be lynched Day 1. Sure, he was useless, but seriously?
Town reads: MrZentor (unfortunately), Shady Sands (double unfortunately) and Node (WTF?????). Check out Node's previous games. In Hammer, he did basically the same thing, where he contributed next to nothing throughout all of Day 1, and he rolled Vig in that game. In this game, he was gone for most of the day, but when he came back he was opinionated and aggressive. Lurking scum would be much more apologetic.
Zentor, start using your head. And Shady, read the fucking thread.
Scum: MMToss, Risen, and S+B. I'm not convinced that's the scum team by any stretch, but those are the people in the thread I think are acting scummy. (Side note: I have no idea how many scum there are in this game at all. I'm assuming there is a team?) MMToss is a carry over from yesterday. No part of how the day played out makes me change my opinion on him. S+B, I'll comment on that at the end (new stuff in thread between when I started writing and finished writing).
As far as Risen, Node is right. We have to hold him accountable for his part in the Palmar lynch. As town, Risen is aggressive and abrasive. As scum, Risen worships chaos (See TLM LIII). This is looking a lot more like scum Risen. Pressure him today and watch what happens.
Null reads: Hiro (leaning town), Marv (leaning town), mkfuba (leaning newbie town), and hopeless1der (leaning scum). I don't have enough to really read any of these players. pre-edit: marv's interactions now with S+B are pushing me to place him more in the town category than the scum category. If S+B flips town, he goes down to scum.
Looks like S+B probably fakeclaimed miller. Ballsy play on his part. This pushes Hiro to town read, and confirms what I suspected on S+B.
##vote strongandbig
And now, I'm off! Don't do anything stupid while I'm gone. This is the kind of post you make before you die. As of now it does nothing to help the game. It makes you look like your doing something, but really it's more confusing than anything to give your read on everyone in the whole game. None of his reads are really explained at all. This whole post screams scum to me, and I'm pretty surprised im the first person to mention it. As scum, you can pretty much put anyone in whatever category you want, to try and manipulate the views of others. You know the alignments of players, so he can distance himself from his scum team while looking like he's contributing. He also has all his basis covered for future mislynches. Mementoss was the 2nd highest lynch yesterday so he's going to keep mentioning it so while everyone is still curious about it he can push for a second mislynch. He finds SnB scum, so lets kill him, if he flips town, Marv will most certainly be scum and we can mislynch him. Also Risen started the Palmar lynch, so lets lynch him! I'm not saying Marv and Risen are definitely town. What I am saying is ghost is clearly keeping his options open without really giving any helpful information or committing to any options, so if he switches wagons, he can refer to this post and say , well yeah I mentioned it here. I will bold the parts where ghost puts blame onto other people for the lynch yesterday or downplays the intelligence of others, to try and re-enforce what a good and noble townie he is. When yesterday he did nothing to help the lynch or help find scum, yet alone even make a case. Additionally, another thing he does to make himself look like good old useful townie ghost is take credit for things that never happened. Such as the last line of the post, " confirms what I suspected on S+B." when in reality, ghost never mentioned SnB in his whole filter as a scum possibility. He is now doing the same thing yesterday, jumping on the lynch wagon after it starts to gain a bit of steam. I will also re-quote Shady's case on ghost from day 1 as it is still relevant and is a lot of what I felt made ghost seem off in day 1. Shady's Case Starts hereShow nested quote +On September 01 2012 07:34 Shady Sands wrote:Hi guys, I'm back. Given that Node is going to get modkilled: ##UnvoteI read Risen's case on me and I like it. It's long, which earns points in my book. That being said, I disagree with its conclusion that I am scum, since I'm not. I'll respond to it in a bit, but first and foremost, I'd like everyone to focus on the scummiest player so far: Ghost_403Here's how Ghost kicks off his scumhunt: On August 31 2012 22:35 ghost_403 wrote:
I agree with Hapa: BMB's case was lackluster at best. Hapa came into the thread, posted "I'm town, flavor sucks", and that's it. I really don't see that as some sort of scum tell on his part.
BMB: I'm curious. Has anyone else in the thread stuck out to you as playing scummy?
Marv: What do you think about BMB's case against Hapa?
Risen's play this game is a little off from the Risen we all know and love. Not sure exactly why as of yet. Could be it's just been a while since he's played. Completely fluffy. First agrees that the case is lackluster, but no tell. Then asks BMB for more reads while he himself posts no reads. Then asks Marv for reads on BMB. Then offers a null tell on Risen. I essence... much ado about nothing. Then defends BMB from Hapa in an effort to look active. But again, no scumreads. On August 31 2012 22:51 ghost_403 wrote:
Calm down, Hapa. Just because BMB wrote up a subpar case on Day 1 does not mean that he's scum. BMB (aka DoctorHelvetica) is very good at this game. I doubt that anyone can know his alignment quite yet, nevermind based on a single case he's presented on Day 1.
@BMB: You are DrH, right? Then again a no-content post, just a defense of his own actions. On August 31 2012 23:22 ghost_403 wrote:On August 31 2012 22:53 marvellosity wrote:On August 31 2012 22:51 ghost_403 wrote:
Calm down, Hapa. Just because BMB wrote up a subpar case on Day 1 does not mean that he's scum. BMB (aka DoctorHelvetica) is very good at this game. I doubt that anyone can know his alignment quite yet, nevermind based on a single case he's presented on Day 1.
@BMB: You are DrH, right? Why are you attacking Hapa for pressuring a pile of shit case? I'm not attacking, I'm telling him to take a step back and evaluate whether he thinks that BMB's case was due to (a) him being scum or (b) him writing up a case 5 hours into the game. The two of those are very different, and I don't see evidence in his analysis of him thinking that question through. Then Ghost goes huge WIFOM. He even lampshades it. On August 31 2012 23:29 ghost_403 wrote:On August 31 2012 23:26 marvellosity wrote:On August 31 2012 23:22 ghost_403 wrote:On August 31 2012 22:53 marvellosity wrote:On August 31 2012 22:51 ghost_403 wrote:
Calm down, Hapa. Just because BMB wrote up a subpar case on Day 1 does not mean that he's scum. BMB (aka DoctorHelvetica) is very good at this game. I doubt that anyone can know his alignment quite yet, nevermind based on a single case he's presented on Day 1.
@BMB: You are DrH, right? Why are you attacking Hapa for pressuring a pile of shit case? I'm not attacking, I'm telling him to take a step back and evaluate whether he thinks that BMB's case was due to (a) him being scum or (b) him writing up a case 5 hours into the game. The two of those are very different, and I don't see evidence in his analysis of him thinking that question through. I'm curious, because by your own reasoning 1) DrH made a bad case 2) DrH is a very good player does it not make more sense that a bad case from someone you think is good is scummier than a bad case from a nublet? WIFOM mode engage! Don't you think that someone as good as BMB would, as scum, be more careful to not make a bad case? I see this as BMB just being aggressive and trying to get the ball moving. I can't imagine him being quite so bold and careless as scum. Do you think that his case is really a scum-tell? Still no case at this point. We have Hapa, Hopeless, Memento, BMB, and myself all making lots of noise but he somehow seems to think everyone is just a confused townie. Which would make a lot of sense if he had prior knowledge as scum. On August 31 2012 23:38 ghost_403 wrote:On August 31 2012 23:34 marvellosity wrote:On August 31 2012 23:29 ghost_403 wrote:On August 31 2012 23:26 marvellosity wrote:On August 31 2012 23:22 ghost_403 wrote:On August 31 2012 22:53 marvellosity wrote:On August 31 2012 22:51 ghost_403 wrote:
Calm down, Hapa. Just because BMB wrote up a subpar case on Day 1 does not mean that he's scum. BMB (aka DoctorHelvetica) is very good at this game. I doubt that anyone can know his alignment quite yet, nevermind based on a single case he's presented on Day 1.
@BMB: You are DrH, right? Why are you attacking Hapa for pressuring a pile of shit case? I'm not attacking, I'm telling him to take a step back and evaluate whether he thinks that BMB's case was due to (a) him being scum or (b) him writing up a case 5 hours into the game. The two of those are very different, and I don't see evidence in his analysis of him thinking that question through. I'm curious, because by your own reasoning 1) DrH made a bad case 2) DrH is a very good player does it not make more sense that a bad case from someone you think is good is scummier than a bad case from a nublet? WIFOM mode engage! Don't you think that someone as good as BMB would, as scum, be more careful to not make a bad case? I see this as BMB just being aggressive and trying to get the ball moving. I can't imagine him being quite so bold and careless as scum. Do you think that his case is really a scum-tell? yeah, ok, let's not go down the WIFOM road. Suffice to say, when someone does something bad, "he should know not to do something bad" has always struck me as an inadequate way of explaining it away. Black's case is certainly scummier than what he was making the case on (hapa's play). Conversely, do you see that case as a town-tell? My spreadsheet has BMB marked down as scum due to that case, but I'm not convinced on it enough to vote him yet. BMB is a good player, and lynching him based on a bad case he made this early on Day 1 is terrible play. I'm certainly going to be watching him closely. What I would really like from him is for him to come back and tell us his thoughts on everyone's reactions to his case. That would tell me a lot more about his alignment than what he's already said in thread. Whoa! We have a scumread now! Everyone drop socks and grab your throttles, because after half a day of posting Ghost says BMB is scum. Except... Don't you think that someone as good as BMB would, as scum, be more careful to not make a bad case?
I see this as BMB just being aggressive and trying to get the ball moving. I can't imagine him being quite so bold and careless as scum.
Do you think that his case is really a scum-tell? This is what Ghost posted in his very own previous post. What? Classic case of scum forgetting what he wrote earlier and just trying to agree with people. Then he tries to split hairs about BMB (I think he's scum but I don't see his posting behavior/casemaking as scum!) then asks people what they think about BMB. On September 01 2012 00:48 ghost_403 wrote:
Gut reaction. What are your thoughts on BMB's alignment? Then says he hasn't found a scum candidate yet: On September 01 2012 03:15 ghost_403 wrote:
Well, since I'd rather lynch scum today, I haven't quite made up my mind. Plenty of town reads, but haven't found a good scum candidate quite yet. I'll let you know when I find one. But he'd be happy with a MMToss lynch in the very next post. What? On September 01 2012 03:20 ghost_403 wrote:
Actually, I'd be pretty happy with a MMToss lynch. Still waiting for S+B to chime in.
Playing mafia while TI2 is on is really hard. Then he votes MMToss as soon as HiroPro makes a big case on MMToss. But there's no independent analysis from ghost as to why he's making this vote as opposed to BMB (who he has marked down as scum in his spreadsheet.) Then he offers a defense of his actions: On September 01 2012 03:49 ghost_403 wrote:
Palmar being AFK is probably due to the TI2, I'm withholding judgement on him until he comes back. Can't change my mind on Risen until he comes back and starts acting more or less Risen. Marv's disappearance is disconcerting, but probably not alignment indicative.
I never said BMB was not mafia, I just said that I'm not ready to lynch him over a single bad case he had presented. I'm still waiting for him to come back into the thread and respond to what's happened. His response is going to determine my view of his alignment.
Still not quite sure of what I think of S+B. I haven't seen a scum player make a legit fakeclaim for a long time, so based on the metagame, I'm inclined to believe him when he claimed miller. However, you're right, his posts have been a little bit off. That's why I really want him to chime in on the MMToss situation. Every single read he gives is null or townie. Again, no justification for the MMToss vote and then keeps splitting hairs over BMB. He asks other people to look at MMToss (gotta keep that scum wagon rolling, yo) but then doesn't offer any justification for the vote himself. I find Ghost's entire train of reasoning on Mementoss consistent with a scum with prior knowledge of alignments, trying to stay active without posting real content. Therefore: ## Vote Ghost_403 SnB's alignment has nothing to do with whether ghost is scummy or not. Im not sure which is more scummy ghost or SnB. But I think I will be voting for ghost because his entire game speaks scum to me for SnB it's just a questionable claim that we can't know for sure is fake, its based mostly on speculation. ##Unvote:StrongandBig
##Vote: Ghost_403
Ghost STILL hasn't made a legit scum-read or pushed with any thread-presence to get anything done. Read the last page of his filter and show me how he's helping us catch scum. I don't see it.
- List post
- Town Read, questions about me
- Errant Speculation
- More questions about me, but no thoughts towards my alignment
- No-content post about looking up my history. I play "differently". Oh Noes.
- Voted me
If/When I flip town, hold him accountable please. No more excuses for inactivity. He's had too many of them already.
##Unvote: Ghost_403
##Vote: Ghost_403
If you still think I'm scum, what would you like me to address to try and change your mind? (This goes for anyone, don't let me die without at least trying to give town info)
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EPT
I need the pressure in order to put in effort. You shouldn't be listening to me. I'm only good for forcing people to things at this point.
