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On September 01 2012 08:18 Risen wrote:Show nested quote +On September 01 2012 08:15 HiroPro wrote:On September 01 2012 08:14 strongandbig wrote:On September 01 2012 08:03 Palmar wrote:
##vote mementoss ##vote palmarLike, the number of times people have told me that "being lazy" is palmar's scum meta... I can't really accept missing the whole first day and then jumping back in with the most random freaking unreasoned explicit sheep vote I've ever seen. I'm not really concerned at the moment with "viable candidates". I don't think any of the main cases are stronger than my gut reaction to what palmar just did. If this is "a trap" palmar, then consider yourself successful, you caught me. By playing as scummy as possible, you trapped me and convinced me that you are scum. Huzzah. Now, I'm going to bed. See you guys tomorrow if I live. town Palmar..... LIV Hiro read what I just posted. Scum Palmar would want you to think just that. Then again, maybe it's town Palmar being town Palmar. Who knows? He's doing it because he can, because in the past he's been able to get away with bad play like this. People like you enable him to have free reign in games, regardless of alignment.
I am not lynching the best scumhunter in this game because he likes to troll d1. We lynch him later if he doesn't find scum, not because we don't like the way he plays.
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On September 01 2012 08:27 Shady Sands wrote:Show nested quote +On September 01 2012 08:20 HiroPro wrote:On September 01 2012 08:18 Risen wrote:On September 01 2012 08:15 HiroPro wrote:On September 01 2012 08:14 strongandbig wrote:On September 01 2012 08:03 Palmar wrote:
##vote mementoss ##vote palmarLike, the number of times people have told me that "being lazy" is palmar's scum meta... I can't really accept missing the whole first day and then jumping back in with the most random freaking unreasoned explicit sheep vote I've ever seen. I'm not really concerned at the moment with "viable candidates". I don't think any of the main cases are stronger than my gut reaction to what palmar just did. If this is "a trap" palmar, then consider yourself successful, you caught me. By playing as scummy as possible, you trapped me and convinced me that you are scum. Huzzah. Now, I'm going to bed. See you guys tomorrow if I live. town Palmar..... LIV Hiro read what I just posted. Scum Palmar would want you to think just that. Then again, maybe it's town Palmar being town Palmar. Who knows? He's doing it because he can, because in the past he's been able to get away with bad play like this. People like you enable him to have free reign in games, regardless of alignment. I am not lynching the best scumhunter in this game because he likes to troll d1. We lynch him later if he doesn't find scum, not because we don't like the way he plays. Hiro, now that I've done what you asked me to and responded to MT, what is your read on Ghost?
Nothing strong. The only thing that makes me think he's scum is that he's never once expressed why he's voting for Mementoss, only that he wants to lynch him. The other stuff you talked about doesn't strike me as alignment-indicative.
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ghost, what do you think of his second response?
On September 01 2012 07:04 Mementoss wrote:
"In the middle of this post, Mementoss says that he voted for Mr. Zentor in order to get him to post something useful, indicating that he has no clear view of Mr. Zentor's alignment. However, right after that Mementoss accuses Hapahauli of soft/hard defending Mr. Zentor and being his scumbuddy. Not only does this not make any sense, as the only posts that Hapahuli has made about Zentor are asking Mementoss why he voted for him, but Mementoss displays a clear disconnect in the way that he perceives Zentor (on one hand being someone he needs to see more from, on the other hand as a scumbuddy)."
To answer HiroPro. I occasionally say aggressive statements like this for people I'm null for to get some sort of reaction out of them and can make another opinion on them based on how they react. Sometimes it's been the case that people on the same scum team avoid communication in the thread or joke around with each other in the thread to lessen the distance between them. "Then... you vote Mr.Zentor for lurking? What?" This is what I considered to be a soft defense, trying to take the heat off him from that moment. "What does voting MrZentor even do, when you find other people suspicious?" Then implying that I am voting him for no reason and downplaying it, is what I considered a harder defense. As obviously I had a reason for doing it, and explaining it basically takes away all effectiveness of the action.
I hope that clears it up to you hiro.
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On September 01 2012 08:52 ghost_403 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 01 2012 08:40 HiroPro wrote:ghost, what do you think of his second response? On September 01 2012 07:04 Mementoss wrote:In the middle of this post, Mementoss says that he voted for Mr. Zentor in order to get him to post something useful, indicating that he has no clear view of Mr. Zentor's alignment. However, right after that Mementoss accuses Hapahauli of soft/hard defending Mr. Zentor and being his scumbuddy. Not only does this not make any sense, as the only posts that Hapahuli has made about Zentor are asking Mementoss why he voted for him, but Mementoss displays a clear disconnect in the way that he perceives Zentor (on one hand being someone he needs to see more from, on the other hand as a scumbuddy). To answer HiroPro. I occasionally say aggressive statements like this for people I'm null for to get some sort of reaction out of them and can make another opinion on them based on how they react. Sometimes it's been the case that people on the same scum team avoid communication in the thread or joke around with each other in the thread to lessen the distance between them. Then... you vote Mr.Zentor for lurking? What? This is what I considered to be a soft defense, trying to take the heat off him from that moment. What does voting MrZentor even do, when you find other people suspicious? Then implying that I am voting him for no reason and downplaying it, is what I considered a harder defense. As obviously I had a reason for doing it, and explaining it basically takes away all effectiveness of the action. I hope that clears it up to you hiro. Reading it the way I think it's meant to be read, I think it's gibberish. Is that really what MMToss was trying to get across? 
Those two secondary quotes are what hapahauli said (what MT considered the soft defenses).
Then... you vote Mr.Zentor for lurking? What?
What does voting MrZentor even do, when you find other people suspicious?
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On September 01 2012 09:25 Hapahauli wrote:Show nested quote +On September 01 2012 09:24 BlackMamba24 wrote:On September 01 2012 09:17 Hapahauli wrote:On September 01 2012 09:16 BlackMamba24 wrote:On September 01 2012 09:13 Hapahauli wrote:I'm going to keep my vote on Palmar for a bit. As it stands, there are a couple of people I want to hear more from before I decide what to do with my vote - namely those that haven't voted yet. I'll give em an hour. Relooking at some filters, I'm growing a bit wary of HiroPro, and his actions seem to follow a scum thought-process. - He enters the thread and builds a "case" on MMtoss. This "case" is a re-hash of most of what I pointed out earlier in the post.
- What seems scummy to me is how quickly he dropped his case. You'd think that a townie would have a bit more confirmation bias? But he drops it the second MMtoss posts his defense to HiroPro for his MrZentor/Hapa scumteam. That seems like a really weak reason to drop your main scumread.
- He spends the next few hours making one-liners and trying to contribute, when really not. Take a look at his filter.
Thoughts? That's a bit misleading. He was not convinced at all by MMtoss' first defense and only unvoted after MMtoss cleared it up further. If he was looking for a reason to drop his case, he would have done it sooner than that. MMtoss later addresses HiroPro's main suspicion and the answer satisfied him. That's the interesting part - he tunnels MMtoss until I explicitly point out his "first defense" (the longer post I take it?) to HiroPro. Then HiroPro posts that he's waiting for MMtoss to respond to him. Then he immediately drops his read after MMtoss responds. That's not suspicious. He was saying MMtoss' defense wasn't adequate because he didn't address the point. Then when MMtoss addressed the point, he was satisfied. What's scummy about that? We can't have another bandwagon switch right now, the vote is close and there's not a lot of time left in the day. Because it was too easy. After tunneling MMtoss the entire game, HP was satisfied with just that post? Seriously? I call BS.
Hi, I changed my mind. That doesn't make me scum. That just means I actually rethink my cases and consider what other people write when they make responses. Mementoss addressed my point because he provided a valid example of what he considered to be soft defenses (""Then... you vote Mr.Zentor for lurking? What? and "What does voting MrZentor even do, when you find other people suspicious?") and he provided a valid reasoning for why he would call Hapa+Zentor scumbuddies like that ("I occasionally say aggressive statements like this for people I'm null for to get some sort of reaction out of them and can make another opinion on them based on how they react.").
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On September 01 2012 09:46 Hapahauli wrote:
@BM24 - still disagree? I mean think about it, a bunch of people still think MMToss is scummy despite his other posts... and HiroPro changed his mind so easily? Really?
Because they thought Mementoss was scum for reasons other than mine... Mementoss addressed my major concern with his play fine.
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Are you willfully not reading what I post?
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ARE YOU FUCKING READING ANYTHING I POST
On September 01 2012 09:37 HiroPro wrote:Show nested quote +On September 01 2012 09:25 Hapahauli wrote:On September 01 2012 09:24 BlackMamba24 wrote:On September 01 2012 09:17 Hapahauli wrote:On September 01 2012 09:16 BlackMamba24 wrote:On September 01 2012 09:13 Hapahauli wrote:I'm going to keep my vote on Palmar for a bit. As it stands, there are a couple of people I want to hear more from before I decide what to do with my vote - namely those that haven't voted yet. I'll give em an hour. Relooking at some filters, I'm growing a bit wary of HiroPro, and his actions seem to follow a scum thought-process. - He enters the thread and builds a "case" on MMtoss. This "case" is a re-hash of most of what I pointed out earlier in the post.
- What seems scummy to me is how quickly he dropped his case. You'd think that a townie would have a bit more confirmation bias? But he drops it the second MMtoss posts his defense to HiroPro for his MrZentor/Hapa scumteam. That seems like a really weak reason to drop your main scumread.
- He spends the next few hours making one-liners and trying to contribute, when really not. Take a look at his filter.
Thoughts? That's a bit misleading. He was not convinced at all by MMtoss' first defense and only unvoted after MMtoss cleared it up further. If he was looking for a reason to drop his case, he would have done it sooner than that. MMtoss later addresses HiroPro's main suspicion and the answer satisfied him. That's the interesting part - he tunnels MMtoss until I explicitly point out his "first defense" (the longer post I take it?) to HiroPro. Then HiroPro posts that he's waiting for MMtoss to respond to him. Then he immediately drops his read after MMtoss responds. That's not suspicious. He was saying MMtoss' defense wasn't adequate because he didn't address the point. Then when MMtoss addressed the point, he was satisfied. What's scummy about that? We can't have another bandwagon switch right now, the vote is close and there's not a lot of time left in the day. Because it was too easy. After tunneling MMtoss the entire game, HP was satisfied with just that post? Seriously? I call BS. Hi, I changed my mind. That doesn't make me scum. That just means I actually rethink my cases and consider what other people write when they make responses. Mementoss addressed my point because he provided a valid example of what he considered to be soft defenses (""Then... you vote Mr.Zentor for lurking? What? and "What does voting MrZentor even do, when you find other people suspicious?") and he provided a valid reasoning for why he would call Hapa+Zentor scumbuddies like that ("I occasionally say aggressive statements like this for people I'm null for to get some sort of reaction out of them and can make another opinion on them based on how they react.").
On September 01 2012 09:47 HiroPro wrote:Show nested quote +On September 01 2012 09:46 Hapahauli wrote:
@BM24 - still disagree? I mean think about it, a bunch of people still think MMToss is scummy despite his other posts... and HiroPro changed his mind so easily? Really? Because they thought Mementoss was scum for reasons other than mine... Mementoss addressed my major concern with his play fine.
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On September 01 2012 10:02 Hopeless1der wrote:
Okay well BMB has already gone through why Hapa's case doesn't demonstrate Hiro to be scummy.
Hapa still has a point regarding who does Hiro think is scum.
Hiro? If your around, we'd be much obliged.
No, I don't have any strong scum reads at this point. Risen looks weird to me because he made a case on Shady and then proceeded to go lynch Palmar because he's a troll. But it's not something I'd vote him for.
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I don't want to lynch Palmar. The fact that he's in the lead despite there being no case against him should in itself suggest that he's town. And if Palmar is town, he's definitely someone to have around.
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I'm voting for Mementoss. I have a null read on him, but I have no desire to lynch Palmar. Blackmamba has been picked as L's right so he is almost certainly town and I trust his judgement.
##Vote Mementoss
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On September 01 2012 11:14 Risen wrote:Show nested quote +On September 01 2012 11:12 HiroPro wrote:
I'm voting for Mementoss. I have a null read on him, but I have no desire to lynch Palmar. Blackmamba has been picked as L's right so he is almost certainly town and I trust his judgement.
##Vote Mementoss Is there a reason you trust his claim 100%? I don't see why a scum would lie about that, but I don't know why a townie would openly claim that, either, unless L told him to.
It's mentioned that L has a messenger in the day post. Scum wouldn't fake claim that, it's 1 for 1 trade.
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On September 01 2012 11:23 Solarsail wrote:Show nested quote +On September 01 2012 11:21 Hapahauli wrote:On September 01 2012 11:13 Solarsail wrote:
##Vote: Risen because Palmar Wait what? What does this even do? Leaves a statement of my intent on the voting record. Since all your choices for lynches are completely terrible.
Vote for Mementoss please. There is no case on Palmar. He is an excellent town player and we can use him. Your scumread is voting for Palmar. That alone should be enough for you to vote for the other lynch, even if you have no personal preference.
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What does this role "Suspicious Detective" mean? Miller?
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Is a Suspicious Detective a miller?
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Suspicious Detectives are millers. I tried to get the mods to say this in the thread, but apparently they won't since it's only part of my role PM.
So s&b is almost certainly lying. It's really unlikely that the setup has certain millers who are unaware (look at Palmar's role PM) and certain millers who are self-aware. And the fact that he put his vote on Palmar and then left without listening to any of the people who told him that was dumb doesn't speak well of him.
##Vote strongandbig
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PRE-EDIT: I should be a little bit more specific. I don't know whether checks on me will return scum or town - all I'm told is that some checks on me will return scum instead of town. I speculate that there are different types of DT check in this game and I am only a miller to some of them - maybe L has special DT powers, and one of their advantages is that they are immune to some or all millers? I also don't know whether it's likely to have more than one or two millers in such a small setup, but having a lot of DT power roles could mean we have more millers than normal. If there are other self-aware millers, they should claim asap as well, or else never claim at all.
Yea I don't believe you.
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This means that 'suspicious detective' isn't just a name for a "miller" role. It's a result of checks people can get.
This part is true though.
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On September 02 2012 00:11 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2012 00:09 HiroPro wrote:This means that 'suspicious detective' isn't just a name for a "miller" role. It's a result of checks people can get. This part is true though. so mafia show up as suspicious detective maybe?
They can (There's almost certainly godfathers in this setup). But Palmar was definitely a miller.
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On September 02 2012 00:14 Mementoss wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2012 00:01 HiroPro wrote:PRE-EDIT: I should be a little bit more specific. I don't know whether checks on me will return scum or town - all I'm told is that some checks on me will return scum instead of town. I speculate that there are different types of DT check in this game and I am only a miller to some of them - maybe L has special DT powers, and one of their advantages is that they are immune to some or all millers? I also don't know whether it's likely to have more than one or two millers in such a small setup, but having a lot of DT power roles could mean we have more millers than normal. If there are other self-aware millers, they should claim asap as well, or else never claim at all. Yea I don't believe you. Im a bit lost, about this suspicious detective thing. Why don't you believe him can you give some clarification?
Because for one, it's really unlikely to have certain millers be unaware, certain self-aware.
Second, look at what s&b wrote. When he first claimed self-aware miller, he said that he didn't know what circumstances would cause him to return as suspicious or normal (he talked about how certain people's checks may be reliable, certain may not).
However, now he's claiming that his role PM told him that he'll return suspicious when there are less than half the players remaining in this game.
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EPT
