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EBWOP: Reformatted - missed a /quote
On September 01 2012 03:00 strongandbig wrote:
I think I've said it before in this thread, but my position is pretty much always the same. Policy lynches and lurker lynches are almost always a bad idea. The only time they're a good idea is when you don't have any better candidates or cases - or when there's a serious need to force everyone to shape up.
But you suggested that we should RNG lynch a lurker!!!
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=363625¤tpage=11#201
I think the case against blackmamba is bad.
Whyyyyyy?
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On September 01 2012 03:05 ghost_403 wrote:
S+B: What are your thoughts on Mementoss at the moment?
On September 01 2012 01:21 Mementoss wrote:
That being said, most of ghosts talk so far has been on this, so I would like to ask him if he had to make a vote now, who would it be and why?
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Ok, I think we should lynch mementoss. I'm heading out for lunch and I'll be back in half an hour.
On September 01 2012 01:21 Mementoss wrote:
I'm not too fond of the way ghost has been defending mamba at every chance he gets. It's fine to defend a player if you don't think they're town but leave it at that. Cause when he comes back to the thread he can just mirror the things that ghost said to defend him, or otherwise there is at least a lot less pressure on him to give an adquete response about his case and such. That being said, most of ghosts talk so far has been on this, so I would like to ask him if he had to make a vote now, who would it be and why?
My opinion on this BMB fiasco is that he seems a bit scummy to me. His posts just rub me the wrong way and his case was bad. I'm not going to go much farther into this as it's already been fleshed out by many but I'll be interested in seeing a response from him. The way he talks about his personal scum preferences is odd, and the question to the hosts could just be a scam to make himself look town, when he actually knew the answer because he received this fake role. I think the case was bad and forced from a scum perspective because if you look through his early filter he realized he was talking a lot, but it was purely filler, and was scared of getting called out on it soon, so he decided to make a case up so no one would call him out for "contributing without actually saying much".
I agree that Risen's play is not his normal town play, of guns blazing and doing crazy shit to get reactions out.
If we are going to set the tone here that lurking is unacceptable as town we might as well start day one, and try to set ourselves up for a winning situation later in the game. Also based on his less than stellar game history... So for now..
##Vote: Mr.Zentor
Also I think that people should be giving their gut thoughts and put in a vote at the start of each day, so we can discuss our way through the best person for the lynch throughout the day. People don't seem to realize how short a 24 hour cycle is, so getting a vote in ASAP is important for discussion and consolidation on voting out a scum. Obviously this is impossible to do on day 1, but I think it should be done for further days.
At first glance, this seems like a solid contribution. Mementoss talks about most of the major things that have happened in this thread. However, look at what Mementoss is actually saying: he spends an inordinate amount of time talking about what ghost should and should not do only to ask ghost a rather basic question and then proceeds to talk about how certain hypothetical thought processes make him think BlackMamba is scum even though he said he wasn't going to talk much about Mamba and wanted to hear more from him... The rest of his post just summarizes general feelings that are going on in the thread.
On September 01 2012 02:07 Mementoss wrote:Show nested quote +On September 01 2012 01:47 Hapahauli wrote:On September 01 2012 01:38 Mementoss wrote:Yeah that's correct. I didn't say I found ghost to be scummy because of it, I just feel you can get a more "real" reaction out of someone under more pressure defending themselves without help from another player, especially in a situation so far away from lynch. BMB I'm awaiting a response from. Risen hasn't posted enough to make a definite opinion on him. Didn't you say you wanted to enforce policy lynches on people that were lurking the town? Or did you just say that because you thought that would be a typical town opener to the game? The problem I'm having is that you're waiting for opinions and waiting for posts when you have legitimate reasons to pressure posters. What does voting MrZentor even do, when you find other people suspicious? You came in, passively fingerpointed a bunch of players, and aren't pressuring them for information. I don't know what else to say to you. I don't think ghost is scum, though I didn't like the way he defended bmb. BMB has been getting constantly talked about and called scum by every second person. I want to give him a chance to respond to the thread. Voting Mr.Zentor is going to make him post something I think is worthy of him showing that he is going to make an attempt at being useful this game. You've officially went from soft defending Zentor to hard defending him, in an aggressive way against me. Guess you voting him at the start of the game was two scum buddy buddying around in the thread? + Show Spoiler +On September 01 2012 01:40 Shady Sands wrote:Show nested quote +On September 01 2012 01:21 Mementoss wrote:
I'm not too fond of the way ghost has been defending mamba at every chance he gets. It's fine to defend a player if you don't think they're town but leave it at that. Cause when he comes back to the thread he can just mirror the things that ghost said to defend him, or otherwise there is at least a lot less pressure on him to give an adquete response about his case and such. That being said, most of ghosts talk so far has been on this, so I would like to ask him if he had to make a vote now, who would it be and why?
My opinion on this BMB fiasco is that he seems a bit scummy to me. His posts just rub me the wrong way and his case was bad. I'm not going to go much farther into this as it's already been fleshed out by many but I'll be interested in seeing a response from him. The way he talks about his personal scum preferences is odd, and the question to the hosts could just be a scam to make himself look town, when he actually knew the answer because he received this fake role. I think the case was bad and forced from a scum perspective because if you look through his early filter he realized he was talking a lot, but it was purely filler, and was scared of getting called out on it soon, so he decided to make a case up so no one would call him out for "contributing without actually saying much".
I agree that Risen's play is not his normal town play, of guns blazing and doing crazy shit to get reactions out.
If we are going to set the tone here that lurking is unacceptable as town we might as well start day one, and try to set ourselves up for a winning situation later in the game. Also based on his less than stellar game history... So for now..
##Vote: Mr.Zentor
Also I think that people should be giving their gut thoughts and put in a vote at the start of each day, so we can discuss our way through the best person for the lynch throughout the day. People don't seem to realize how short a 24 hour cycle is, so getting a vote in ASAP is important for discussion and consolidation on voting out a scum. Obviously this is impossible to do on day 1, but I think it should be done for further days.
This post makes absolutely no sense. Momen can you further explain? Who dafuq is momen.
In the middle of this post, Mementoss says that he voted for Mr. Zentor in order to get him to post something useful, indicating that he has no clear view of Mr. Zentor's alignment. However, right after that Mementoss accuses Hapahauli of soft/hard defending Mr. Zentor and being his scumbuddy. Not only does this not make any sense, as the only posts that Hapahuli has made about Zentor are asking Mementoss why he voted for him, but Mementoss displays a clear disconnect in the way that he perceives Zentor (on one hand being someone he needs to see more from, on the other hand as a scumbuddy).
Mementoss is attempting to seem useful when his posts actually say very little. His reaction to Hapahauli's questions are to throw doubt and accusations in a nonsensical manner. He's scum.
##Vote Mementoss
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Well, since I'd rather lynch scum today, I haven't quite made up my mind. Plenty of town reads, but haven't found a good scum candidate quite yet. I'll let you know when I find one.
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Actually, I'd be pretty happy with a MMToss lynch. Still waiting for S+B to chime in.
Playing mafia while TI2 is on is really hard.
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I suppose I should vote at some point.
##vote mementoss
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What are some of your other reads Ghost? Do you still think BMB is not mafia? What are some of your town reads?
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I've already answered all of this stuff, but I'll pull it together for you.
On September 01 2012 03:06 Hapahauli wrote:EBWOP: Reformatted - missed a /quote Show nested quote +On September 01 2012 03:00 strongandbig wrote:
I think I've said it before in this thread, but my position is pretty much always the same. Policy lynches and lurker lynches are almost always a bad idea. The only time they're a good idea is when you don't have any better candidates or cases - or when there's a serious need to force everyone to shape up. But you suggested that we should RNG lynch a lurker!!! http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=363625¤tpage=11#201
From the post you quoted literally right above your sentence:
On September 01 2012 03:00 strongandbig wrote:
I think I've said it before in this thread, but my position is pretty much always the same. Policy lynches and lurker lynches are almost always a bad idea. The only time they're a good idea is when you don't have any better candidates or cases - or when there's a serious need to force everyone to shape up.
I suggested we RNG a lurker because it's more likely to kill scum, imo, than just choosing one, since they can manipulate that choice.
On September 01 2012 01:17 strongandbig wrote:
I do think that "he made a bad case" is not sufficient reason to go after blackmamba. I mean, many recent games show that veterans can and do make bad cases on occasion, even when they're town. It's a data point, but not the strongest one.
Seriously the case on him is basically nothing but "he made a bad case". If there's more I haven't seen it explained, so please do.
I'm going to go home and eat dinner now, then I will read the case on mementoss and his filter. I'll be back with thoughts.
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Palmar being AFK is probably due to the TI2, I'm withholding judgement on him until he comes back. Can't change my mind on Risen until he comes back and starts acting more or less Risen. Marv's disappearance is disconcerting, but probably not alignment indicative.
I never said BMB was not mafia, I just said that I'm not ready to lynch him over a single bad case he had presented. I'm still waiting for him to come back into the thread and respond to what's happened. His response is going to determine my view of his alignment.
Still not quite sure of what I think of S+B. I haven't seen a scum player make a legit fakeclaim for a long time, so based on the metagame, I'm inclined to believe him when he claimed miller. However, you're right, his posts have been a little bit off. That's why I really want him to chime in on the MMToss situation.
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Home from class. Reading everything now.
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[QUOTE]On September 01 2012 03:47 strongandbig wrote:
I've already answered all of this stuff, but I'll pull it together for you.
[QUOTE]On September 01 2012 03:06 Hapahauli wrote:
EBWOP: Reformatted - missed a /quote
[QUOTE]On September 01 2012 03:00 strongandbig wrote:
I think I've said it before in this thread, but my position is pretty much always the same. Policy lynches and lurker lynches are almost always a bad idea. The only time they're a good idea is when you don't have any better candidates or cases - or when there's a serious need to force everyone to shape up.[/Quote]
But you suggested that we should RNG lynch a lurker!!!
[url=http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=363625¤tpage=11#201]http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=363625¤tpage=11#201[/url]
[/quote]
From the post you quoted literally right above your sentence:
[QUOTE]On September 01 2012 03:00 strongandbig wrote:
I think I've said it before in this thread, but my position is pretty much always the same. Policy lynches and lurker lynches are almost always a bad idea. The only time they're a good idea is when you don't have any better candidates or cases - or when there's a serious need to force everyone to shape up.[/Quote]
I suggested we RNG a lurker because it's more likely to kill scum, imo, than just choosing one, since they can manipulate that choice.[Quote]
Nonono see, that's a contradiction, not an explanation. In your original post, you made no mention of "RNG lynching as a backup" or whatever. You were seriously proposing an RNG lynch, which goes directly against the statement I quoted.
[Quote]Seriously the case on him is basically nothing but "he made a bad case". If there's more I haven't seen it explained, so please do.[/QUOTE]
He's a good player, and made a bad case. I think there's plenty of scum motivation for this. Hell he's been absent from the thread for a while now - don't you find that the least bit suspicious?
It's one thing to say that my evidence is insufficient - it's another to say it's bad on D1 when we have nothing else to go by.
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EBWOP: Goddamnit I suck at formatting.
On September 01 2012 03:47 strongandbig wrote:I've already answered all of this stuff, but I'll pull it together for you. Show nested quote +On September 01 2012 03:06 Hapahauli wrote:EBWOP: Reformatted - missed a /quote On September 01 2012 03:00 strongandbig wrote:
I think I've said it before in this thread, but my position is pretty much always the same. Policy lynches and lurker lynches are almost always a bad idea. The only time they're a good idea is when you don't have any better candidates or cases - or when there's a serious need to force everyone to shape up. But you suggested that we should RNG lynch a lurker!!! http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=363625¤tpage=11#201 From the post you quoted literally right above your sentence: Show nested quote +On September 01 2012 03:00 strongandbig wrote:
I think I've said it before in this thread, but my position is pretty much always the same. Policy lynches and lurker lynches are almost always a bad idea. The only time they're a good idea is when you don't have any better candidates or cases - or when there's a serious need to force everyone to shape up. I suggested we RNG a lurker because it's more likely to kill scum, imo, than just choosing one, since they can manipulate that choice.
Nonono see, that's a contradiction, not an explanation. In your original post, you made no mention of "RNG lynching as a backup" or whatever. You were seriously proposing an RNG lynch, which goes directly against the statement I quoted.
Seriously the case on him is basically nothing but "he made a bad case". If there's more I haven't seen it explained, so please do.
He's a good player, and made a bad case. I think there's plenty of scum motivation for this. Hell he's been absent from the thread for a while now - don't you find that the least bit suspicious?
It's one thing to say that my evidence is insufficient - it's another to say it's bad on D1 when we have nothing else to go by.
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Hapa what's your read on the Momen case?
My read on Momen is scum but I want to give him a chance to respond to the accusations before voting him.
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Momentoss is slightly scummy right now, and BMB is my top scumread.
Thing is with Momentoss, is that I can see a townie posting in that manner. Sure his logic is questionable and he fingerpoints, but that type of post can come from a townie. I have no reason to vote him for now.
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Since we're 7 hours before the lynch deadline, it's worth mentioning that Node has yet to post, and MrZentor has yet to do anything...
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United Kingdom36161 Posts
ok it's not been discussed at all, but it keeps being pushed.
s&b seems to think that Mamba's case which is full of crap is less scummy than Hapa's pressure vote on Hopeless1der, and it makes no sense to me at all. He says he's not happy to vote someone based on one bad case, but is extremely happy to be suspicious of Hapa pressuring Hopeless.
Why this disparity?
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On September 01 2012 04:25 marvellosity wrote:
ok it's not been discussed at all, but it keeps being pushed.
s&b seems to think that Mamba's case which is full of crap is less scummy than Hapa's pressure vote on Hopeless1der, and it makes no sense to me at all. He says he's not happy to vote someone based on one bad case, but is extremely happy to be suspicious of Hapa pressuring Hopeless.
Why this disparity?
There's that, and his "policy lynching is a last resourt" + "oh lets RNG lurker lynchhhh" thing.
As much as I hate the logic, it doesn't necessarily read scummy to me yet. It's incoherent/inconsistent in a way that could be townie. Also, SnB atleast is putting in effort so far, and I don't know enough about his meta to infer anything but bad townie from it.
Do you think he's scummy marv? Have any relevant meta reads on him?
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Alright, enough of this bullshit.
## Vote Node
Until he posts. I'm also amenable to a wagon on Zentor.
As for Momen, I want to his response. As for BlackMamba, I haven't had a chance to read through his filter yet. Will check thread again 5 hours from now.
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I don't think s&b is scum. I've played with him a lot and I've also hydraed with him so I have a sense of the way he plays as town. His logic has so far been meh, but the stuff he's posting seems genuine. I don't think he would try to fakeclaim miller in the beginning as scum - he's not the type to bring a lot of attention onto himself like that as scum. I'd love to hear more from him on people other than hapa/mamba, though.
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Thanks for the kenpach rule info Hopeless. I used google because I didn't know it was a TL thing. I'll check TL first next time.
HiroPro's case was convincing. Momentoss seems to be casting a wide net of suspicion without committing to anything. Even his Mr.Zentor vote is just "for now..." He seems indifferent as to who gets lynched.
On September 01 2012 02:07 Mementoss wrote:Show nested quote +On September 01 2012 01:47 Hapahauli wrote:On September 01 2012 01:38 Mementoss wrote:Yeah that's correct. I didn't say I found ghost to be scummy because of it, I just feel you can get a more "real" reaction out of someone under more pressure defending themselves without help from another player, especially in a situation so far away from lynch. BMB I'm awaiting a response from. Risen hasn't posted enough to make a definite opinion on him. Didn't you say you wanted to enforce policy lynches on people that were lurking the town? Or did you just say that because you thought that would be a typical town opener to the game? The problem I'm having is that you're waiting for opinions and waiting for posts when you have legitimate reasons to pressure posters. What does voting MrZentor even do, when you find other people suspicious? You came in, passively fingerpointed a bunch of players, and aren't pressuring them for information. I don't know what else to say to you. I don't think ghost is scum, though I didn't like the way he defended bmb. BMB has been getting constantly talked about and called scum by every second person. I want to give him a chance to respond to the thread. Voting Mr.Zentor is going to make him post something I think is worthy of him showing that he is going to make an attempt at being useful this game. You've officially went from soft defending Zentor to hard defending him, in an aggressive way against me. Guess you voting him at the start of the game was two scum buddy buddying around in the thread?+ Show Spoiler +On September 01 2012 01:40 Shady Sands wrote:Show nested quote +On September 01 2012 01:21 Mementoss wrote:
I'm not too fond of the way ghost has been defending mamba at every chance he gets. It's fine to defend a player if you don't think they're town but leave it at that. Cause when he comes back to the thread he can just mirror the things that ghost said to defend him, or otherwise there is at least a lot less pressure on him to give an adquete response about his case and such. That being said, most of ghosts talk so far has been on this, so I would like to ask him if he had to make a vote now, who would it be and why?
My opinion on this BMB fiasco is that he seems a bit scummy to me. His posts just rub me the wrong way and his case was bad. I'm not going to go much farther into this as it's already been fleshed out by many but I'll be interested in seeing a response from him. The way he talks about his personal scum preferences is odd, and the question to the hosts could just be a scam to make himself look town, when he actually knew the answer because he received this fake role. I think the case was bad and forced from a scum perspective because if you look through his early filter he realized he was talking a lot, but it was purely filler, and was scared of getting called out on it soon, so he decided to make a case up so no one would call him out for "contributing without actually saying much".
I agree that Risen's play is not his normal town play, of guns blazing and doing crazy shit to get reactions out.
If we are going to set the tone here that lurking is unacceptable as town we might as well start day one, and try to set ourselves up for a winning situation later in the game. Also based on his less than stellar game history... So for now..
##Vote: Mr.Zentor
Also I think that people should be giving their gut thoughts and put in a vote at the start of each day, so we can discuss our way through the best person for the lynch throughout the day. People don't seem to realize how short a 24 hour cycle is, so getting a vote in ASAP is important for discussion and consolidation on voting out a scum. Obviously this is impossible to do on day 1, but I think it should be done for further days.
This post makes absolutely no sense. Momen can you further explain? Who dafuq is momen.
I haven't felt like Hapa has been defending Mr.Z at all, but has instead been trying to figure out why Momentoss is voting him instead of any of the other candidates he's mentioned, or even any of the other lurkers. Momentoss then builds this "hard defense" into an associative case where neither of the players involved has flipped (naturally). These claims can be made of anyone who has responded to anything another player has said, and cannot be proven or disproven without a lynch on one of the two involved. In fact, I was lightly involved in the "buddy buddying" around in the beginning, and am now "hard defending" Mr.Z by his logic. Am I next on the scumlist? This line of reasoning may seem like scumhunting but there's nothing to base a read on.
##Vote Momentoss
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EPT
