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It was later in the game from what I remember, just that he doesn't really listen (or ignores) others logic.
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On September 06 2012 09:42 Toadesstern wrote:btw random observation that might be worth sharing as I'm not sure what to make of it yet but it's interessting: Show nested quote +On September 05 2012 13:07 BroodKingEXE wrote:On September 05 2012 13:00 Z-BosoN wrote:On September 05 2012 12:59 BroodKingEXE wrote:That was guy number 2 I missed him on my reread of the filters. The end of his post is scummy imo sounds like he is trying to avoid modkill as opposed to helping the town. Interested in why he thinks Matt is assasin and still votes for him. Yep, that's the main problem I would have with him. Also, from your filter, you were pretty focused on Toad. Do you still find him suspicious?? No, his response was belivable based on posts he made after his sloosh interaction. Ottox has replaced him due to the fact that he is pushing a "Matt is an assasin/townie scheme" instead of pushing his scum read toad. Show nested quote +On September 05 2012 23:39 marvellosity wrote:
Updated
Vote Count:
Mattchew (21): The great unwashed
Toadesstern (2): BroodkingEXE, Ottoxlol
Yet to vote: Lvdr, Mattchew, Shady Sands Important part of the quote in red. Nothing else changed. That's it for today for me
I could've sworn I changed my vote -_-'
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EBWOP: I did in the thread, forgot voting thread.
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On September 07 2012 11:37 Hapahauli wrote:Before I go to bed for the night: BroodKingEXEHe has two very suspicious posts regarding two confirmed players: Mattchew and Ottoxlol.
A bit before Mattchew is scum-confirmed (right around when a few players start voting for Mattchew), Broodking posts this unbelievably wishy-washy opinion on Mattchew. Show nested quote +On September 04 2012 16:20 BroodKingEXE wrote:
About Mattchew (who I think is town):
Here's my breakdown of the situation : Matt's roleclaimed and given two reasons he claimed to avoid mislynch and/or draw a mafia shot. At first glance the roleclaim seemed like a great idea, but as I thought about it there were just too many holes. My initial thought was that it was a good idea and that could have been Matt's (based on the reasoning too). Another problem I find with lynching him is that what he has done (roleclaim) isn't verifiable until he is lynched. Right now its a coinflip and I haven't seen anything else that suggests he is scum. Fakeclaims aren't good basis for a lynch, they're not even able to be confirmed until the lynch, so I cant vote for him unless his posting sounds scummy. Look at the logic - he first thinks its a great idea, then there are "too many holes." He doesn't want to lynch him because his "roleclaim isn't verifiable until he is lynched" - the hell? He said he's town originally, then says "its a coinflip" Then he says "Fakeclaims aren't good basis for a lynch" and wants to wait until "mattchew sounds scummy". Again, the fakeclaim is the entire reason everyone voted for him. But wait! Two pages after the fakeclaim (and before Mattchew posted anything in the interim): After stating earlier that the fakeclaim wasn't enough to lynch Mattchew, he votes Mattchew for that very reasoning.
His viewpoints on Ottoxlol are the nail in the coffin: Goes from top scumread: Show nested quote +No, his response was belivable based on posts he made after his sloosh interaction. Ottox has replaced him [ed note: Broodking's scumread on Toad due to the fact that he is pushing a "Matt is an assasin/townie scheme" instead of pushing his scum read toad. Then proceeds to push cases against Miltonkram, Shadysands, and Gravan while Ottox is his top scumread: Then says strange things about potentially townie Ottox while keeping a scumread on him. Show nested quote +filter
My 2 cents about the Ottox thing. I played with him in Area 53 and he's as stubborn as a mule. I could see him trying to derail a lynch from a town perspective. I just don't get why as town he wont push a lynch canidate (in all seriousness his isn't doing much to push toad or hapa). That's why Im keeping a scum read on him. Then SOFT DEFENDS OTTOX when talking to DrHShow nested quote +On September 06 2012 16:03 BroodKingEXE wrote:It was later in the game from what I remember, just that he doesn't really listen (or ignores) others logic.
BroodKingEXE is scum!##Vote BroodKingEXE
I've got a break to post. The reason I didn't like the idea of voting for a fake-claim is because short of Mod-confirmation, we wouldn't have any way to confirm BC's theory. I switched my vote because the fake-claim was confirmed and Mattchew had made no attempt to explain the fake-claim from a town perspective.
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On September 08 2012 03:33 Hapahauli wrote:Show nested quote +On September 08 2012 03:12 BroodKingEXE wrote:On September 07 2012 11:37 Hapahauli wrote:Before I go to bed for the night: BroodKingEXEHe has two very suspicious posts regarding two confirmed players: Mattchew and Ottoxlol.
A bit before Mattchew is scum-confirmed (right around when a few players start voting for Mattchew), Broodking posts this unbelievably wishy-washy opinion on Mattchew. On September 04 2012 16:20 BroodKingEXE wrote:
About Mattchew (who I think is town):
Here's my breakdown of the situation : Matt's roleclaimed and given two reasons he claimed to avoid mislynch and/or draw a mafia shot. At first glance the roleclaim seemed like a great idea, but as I thought about it there were just too many holes. My initial thought was that it was a good idea and that could have been Matt's (based on the reasoning too). Another problem I find with lynching him is that what he has done (roleclaim) isn't verifiable until he is lynched. Right now its a coinflip and I haven't seen anything else that suggests he is scum. Fakeclaims aren't good basis for a lynch, they're not even able to be confirmed until the lynch, so I cant vote for him unless his posting sounds scummy. Look at the logic - he first thinks its a great idea, then there are "too many holes." He doesn't want to lynch him because his "roleclaim isn't verifiable until he is lynched" - the hell? He said he's town originally, then says "its a coinflip" Then he says "Fakeclaims aren't good basis for a lynch" and wants to wait until "mattchew sounds scummy". Again, the fakeclaim is the entire reason everyone voted for him. But wait! Two pages after the fakeclaim (and before Mattchew posted anything in the interim): On September 05 2012 00:12 BroodKingEXE wrote:
Unvote
##Vote: Mattchew
Wow. After stating earlier that the fakeclaim wasn't enough to lynch Mattchew, he votes Mattchew for that very reasoning.
His viewpoints on Ottoxlol are the nail in the coffin: Goes from top scumread: No, his response was belivable based on posts he made after his sloosh interaction. Ottox has replaced him [ed note: Broodking's scumread on Toad due to the fact that he is pushing a "Matt is an assasin/townie scheme" instead of pushing his scum read toad. Then proceeds to push cases against Miltonkram, Shadysands, and Gravan while Ottox is his top scumread: Then says strange things about potentially townie Ottox while keeping a scumread on him. filter
My 2 cents about the Ottox thing. I played with him in Area 53 and he's as stubborn as a mule. I could see him trying to derail a lynch from a town perspective. I just don't get why as town he wont push a lynch canidate (in all seriousness his isn't doing much to push toad or hapa). That's why Im keeping a scum read on him. Then SOFT DEFENDS OTTOX when talking to DrHOn September 06 2012 16:03 BroodKingEXE wrote:It was later in the game from what I remember, just that he doesn't really listen (or ignores) others logic.
BroodKingEXE is scum!##Vote BroodKingEXE I've got a break to post. The reason I didn't like the idea of voting for a fake-claim is because short of Mod-confirmation, we wouldn't have any way to confirm BC's theory 1. I switched my vote because the fake-claim was confirmed and Mattchew had made no attempt to explain the fake-claim from a town perspective 2. 1: That's pretty clearly a misrepresentation of your post. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=361826¤tpage=21#412Firstly, you weren't even thinking about the mod confirmation. Your quote below proves this: Show nested quote + ...Another problem I find with lynching him is that what he has done (roleclaim) isn't verifiable until he is lynched... You explicitly state that his roleclaim isn't viable unless he dies. You very clearly weren't thinking of mod-confirmation. 2: Misrepresentation again. Palmar confirmed the lie 5.5 hours before your ##Vote post. You're telling me that you only gave Mattchew 5.5 hours to address his fakeclaim before you were convinced he was scum? You played off the entire thing as a mega-scumslip. Also, you explicitly mentioned that you weren't going to vote him based on the fakeclaim, and only if his posting was scummy. Show nested quote +Fakeclaims aren't good basis for a lynch, they're not even able to be confirmed until the lynch, so I cant vote for him unless his posting sounds scummy. In what way does 5.5 hours of Mattchew's silence describe this complete 180? It doesn't.
Why, would I expect mod-confirmation if my nosy neighbor question hadn't been answered for more than 4 days(clicky)? I assumed Palmar wasn't going to give out that info. Since I thought that he wasn't going to give out the information, I didn't consider it an option to verify the fake-claim.
You need to read what you bolded more carefully. Fake-Claims are not good reasons for a lynch, because they are not able to be verified. Therefore I need to look at his posting to figure out his alignment. But since it was confirmed, it is a good reason for a lynch and thus a good reason for a lynch.
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About the Ottox thing, Ottox is a stubborn townie and people need to know that. If they don't he's going to be considered scummy for the wrong reason. I saw a lot of people piling on Ottox for a trait that he has as town (his ignorant stubborness), so I presented another thing I saw he wasn't doing (scumhunting) as a better reason.
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Guys this lynch is not happening. Its like 12:00 PST I'll make a good case in the morning, but Im forced to say Im Watcher. Night One I visited BC and got back GK -_-.
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Mav
I view his stances on Matthew and I have been really wishy-washy, most likely scum not wanting to fully commit yet stay on the safe side of the lynch.
On September 07 2012 22:05 Maverick32x wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2012 20:51 Forumite wrote:On September 07 2012 13:12 Maverick32x wrote:
@Forumite-
I guess we have different perspectives when it comes to scum hunting? The majority of players are town.. so wouldn't it be smarter to do some 'innocent until proven guilty'? As opposed to just blasting everyone because everyone else is doing it?
All this being said- I'm wondering if we should just lynch a lurker? I feel like allowing scum to lurk is a bad plan? I don´t think you are paranoid enough for this game. Everyone is a possible scum until they are confirmed or flip. If two players attack eachother, then you look at the conversation to get a feel if one of them are scummy, a case and a defence against that case is a source of information, but if you interfere in a way that shuts down the conversation, then that opportunity for information and analysis disappear. As for lurker lynch, why don´t you want to lynch me? You called me scum after the daypost. Because you're posting. And that's atleast an indication of some kind of engagement. BKE has fluffy posts, defends Matt a bit, and then just kinda floats around....however, I'm sticking with my lurking instincts and just going to take ShiaoPi out.
He thinks Im a lurker (below ShiaoPi) and has an opinion on me. But he doesn't see me as scummy quite yet.
Mav 1
Shiao 1
Mav 2
Read these two posts, he is suspicious of Shiao for "Trusting others reads". The second post suggests that he is worried about a bandwagon, strange that he doesn't comment on that himself.
On September 08 2012 02:19 Maverick32x wrote:
Wow. Sorry for my awful grammar .. on the phone on a train....
I'll switch to BKE... But I agree there are a lot of good cases existing...
His turning point to me, Hapa's case. The same case in which he was suspicious of Shiao following. The fact that he replied meant that he didn't take the case as a good reason to vote for me. Therefore it makes no sense for him to vote for me.
On September 08 2012 04:38 Maverick32x wrote:
Is the vote deadline at 5pm cst?
I'm really struggling with a BKE lynch the more its discussed... Anyone else have thoughts?
I really think Hap is town- but I'm just not sure on his read... I'm in a training so just trying to post on breaks...
This post can be read two ways
1: He is not sure of Hapa's read on me. (The reason he voted for me)
2: He is not sure of Hapa's alignment, which is basically questioning the read.
The whole reason he votes for me at this point is that Hapa's read is the lynchpin, yet he doubts the read left and right.
+ Show Spoiler +On September 08 2012 06:55 Maverick32x wrote:Ok, this probably will be my last post of the day, but I'm finally home and could read through BKE's filter properly. To be honest, I went into looking at BKE from a "Everyone is ganging up on him, and I don't think its deserved" perspective. I don't think anyone said this, but this is the evidence that I'm considering as the most damning... Show nested quote +On September 04 2012 09:21 BroodKingEXE wrote:On September 04 2012 09:16 Hapahauli wrote:On September 04 2012 09:12 Mattchew wrote:
I am a nosy neighbor. Anyone else with this role should insta-claim as well. Hold up. Why would we want people with information roles to claim? Its basically a miller role that the town knows about why not? Show nested quote +On September 04 2012 12:13 BroodKingEXE wrote:
Actually, Mattchew why should they claim now? Can't they just wait till its pointed out? Well okay, I know THIS has been brought up... but I just want to reiterate that this 'soft defending' makes me suspicious... not 100% scum.. just suspicious. Show nested quote +On September 04 2012 09:52 BroodKingEXE wrote:On September 04 2012 09:36 Toadesstern wrote:--snipped-- On September 04 2012 09:35 BroodKingEXE wrote:
@Toad Im still confused about the vote on slOosh. You didn't agree with him for starting a useless discussion and that's grounds for keeping your vote on him? There never was a vote on him to begin with lol An honorary vote, and even so you never got anything out of it despite the six or so posts metioning him. Seemed more like some sort of a push, against slo0sh, than a minor disagreement. This is just the last post on his slight attack on Toad. Which is significant to me beecaaauusse: Show nested quote +On September 06 2012 04:41 BroodKingEXE wrote:On September 06 2012 03:57 Ottoxlol wrote:On September 06 2012 03:49 Z-BosoN wrote:
@goodkarma
Just because he is up on my suspicion bar does not mean that he is scum. He could very well be a bad townie.
If he is, the only motivation he has for defending matt and attacking toad is that he actually thinks that toad is more suspicious than matt, and if so, he's doing a shitty job at explaining himself.
Also, him being obnoxious doesn't contribute to his defense. At least I am not that retarded to attack someone on the ground of their first post that was clearly a joke. I already explained my motivation two post ago. If you need some help understanding it you can ask for it nicely You dont joke about scum reads. You're scum, because you are trying to derail a lynch and not trying to bring up another canidate. Real townie would create a case and present a new option, but scum dont want to give away to much and wont do that. They'll try to plug an easy lurker after a derail. I really see this as putting the responsibility on someone else to make claims and to avoid doing it himself.... He just lights touched on a couple people, but clearly expected town to start lynching themselves. So yea, I'm good with this lynch....AND the one thing I'm concerned about is that we are tunneling. And that concerns me.... still worried about the lurkers!!
His first reason behind voting for me is that he is "suspicious" of my soft defending. He's still not willing to commit, even putting in a point that doesn't even strike him as necassarily scummy. The second point doesn't make sense either, there's a difference between a hard push and a soft push. Toad was doing what I considered at the time a soft push, he later explained that his slo0sh "push" was drawing reaction. Ottox wasn't doing any pushing just trying to move the lynch to god knows who (since he never made a strong push). How is asking Ottox to find scum, scummy? Doesn't any townie have to make claims, so there's nothing wrong with asking Ottox to post his reads. He then finishes off his post with another point of doubt, doesn't even finish with saying Im scum!
Mav doesn't want to commit to killing any townie. He is scum: ##Vote: Maverick32x
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On September 09 2012 00:26 austinmcc wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2012 00:21 Shady Sands wrote:
Thanks.
Ergo, we have no way to verify BKE's claim... Right. Either he's a watcher OR he chose a fakeclaim so bad it could be disproven pretty much by flips alone. And it wasn't a pressure claim, he was getting called out all yesterday, then claimed while nobody was doing anything. I'm currently believing the claim since it seems like a giant risk to take when you're already down 2. Heck, why go with a terrible fake claim when you could name anything?
BM, where you at? We discussed scum having/not having some sort of leader earlier. I'd like to hear your updated thoughts. Ottoxlol flipped town, so it's not a case where mattchew/ottox/gravan all messed up and looked scummy D1. 2 vets died, so they're not options as some sort of mafia general, commanding the troops. Now we've got this BKE claim. Do you believe that claim? Are there players you could see saying, "hey you, go make a terrible fakeclaim that's so bad people will have trouble thinking it's from scum"? I don't see BKE, if scum, going that route, because you don't really gain anything compared to a better fake claim.
I have to be honest, Im just laying it out. In XIII Newbie, I was One-Shot and didn't claim and everyone said I should've. I don't want to make the same mistake. I know me getting GK back is useless, but I need town to know what you guys will be lynching. Medic should not claim definetly(if we have one and they acted), else we both die. I picked BC primarily for the reason that Matt was his first pick and he was using the lynch to look around for other scum. He was speaking with really solid logic and had a few scum reads already. DrH was under a bit of fire, so I wasn't sure if scum was going to let that sit and develop. I didn't think Toad was active enough to be killed that night, but he had by then moved to my town list due to his response to my case.
Just to make it clear I think
Shady and Mav are scum
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On September 06 2012 15:56 BroodKingEXE wrote:Lurker albeit but what he has posted is scummy as fuck. Show nested quote +On September 04 2012 18:22 Shady Sands wrote:On September 04 2012 18:17 Palmar wrote:
Just like with any other normal miller role, nosy neighbours do not know they are nosy neighbours whoa what? Just got back into this thread. I'll read through it later (when I wake up) but for now, ##Vote Mattchew Votes for Mattchew... Show nested quote +On September 05 2012 05:20 Shady Sands wrote:On September 05 2012 05:12 grush57 wrote:
Well, looks like Mattchew slipped and all the noobs on his team are now scrambling.
So....
##Vote: Mattchew
Miltonkram after this lynch?(Assuming that Mattchew flips scum which he will) Why are you piling on Miltonkram? AFAIK you didn't even offer a single post on the entire Mattchew debacle and now you're trying to chainsaw defend Hapa by drawing associative scumtells? Ravages Grush for voting for Mattchew?! As far as I can see, you put in as much input on the Mattchew debacle as him, considering you talked to him about it( clicky). At that point it didn't even matter cause he got caught with a scummy fakeclaim. Other than that he's supported lynching lurkers and publicly announcing blue actions.
This post, I forgot to put his name in red the first time.
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On September 09 2012 01:54 Gravan wrote:
I still want to hear BKE's best guess at what happened on N1, regardless any suspicion against him.
Could I hold up on that? Im asking Palmar a question about N1.
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Fuck I just broke a rule. T_T
@Grush I had that case against Shady b4 you. How is that sheeping?
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Just got back what do you guys need from me to help you decide? Toad's scenario in which BM was bombed makes the most sense as of now.
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@Austin Your case looks good except for the smiles. They seem more like a mockery of GKs original smile.
##Unvote
##Vote: Z-Boson
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@Everyone, what about my filter do you still find scummy? It seems like people just say its scummy without referencing any cases, or my responses. Ive responded to Hapa's case and can elaborate, but it seems like you guys see more scummy stuff.
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On September 09 2012 04:01 Forumite wrote:
Caught up. Still think scum held a killpower in order to get another night to find blues before they need to worry about the blues finding them.
I like the lynch we have and am keeping my vote on BKE, he´s too quiet for a player up for the lynch.
I have a read as "useless troll that needs to die" on grush. Seriously, what was that 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12 song about?
What are you talking about, Ive been here.
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On September 09 2012 04:11 Forumite wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2012 04:03 BroodKingEXE wrote:On September 09 2012 04:01 Forumite wrote:
Caught up. Still think scum held a killpower in order to get another night to find blues before they need to worry about the blues finding them.
I like the lynch we have and am keeping my vote on BKE, he´s too quiet for a player up for the lynch.
I have a read as "useless troll that needs to die" on grush. Seriously, what was that 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12 song about? What are you talking about, Ive been here. Yeah, and while you were here you´ve made cases on Maverick, Shady and Z-boson and a few one-liners, but since your claim you haven´t talked about yourself. You have loads of votes on you, but you focus on pointing out scummier targets instead of defending yourself.
Well usually its better to present s lynch option than just purely defend.
Here's my side of things
Mattchew claimed nosy neighbor, I believed the claim and had no reason to believe it was fake. The theory of him claiming as town had holes, but I viewed that there could have been a benefit at a quick glance. When Palmar confirmed neighbors didnt know their alighnment, I didnt see any reason for him to lie, and he didnt make any attempt to explain his claim at all. Despite being somewhat active before the discussion started. He gets lynched, so we look at Ottox. Ottox is being his stubborn self and people are starting to get a scum read on him. Ottox being stubborn isnt alignment indicative, so I point that out, but his lack of scumhunting is scummy. No one's really commented on my recent cases, so Ill end it there.
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@Boson youve totally taken what austin said out of context. Here's what he said:
1) You had an almost happy reaction to being FoSed
2) You voted for Matt while having believing his claim. Then you dont address the fakeclaim instead coming back and giving a useless connection post based on Matt's alignment.
3) You talk about Ottox, tell everyone to shut up, yet keep talking about Ottox
4) You have information on LI, which you could only know if you had read the game, or you had a scum mate who obsed or played feed you the meta information.
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On September 09 2012 04:34 Z-BosoN wrote:
No one has commented on your cases because you yourself don't give them traction!! How do you expect to convince people to vote for someone else if you yourself can't give better reasons and don't support your own claims??
I cant build my case on Mav if he refuses to respond to my case. What is wrong with me agreeing with Austins half-case, it has legitimate evidence.
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On September 09 2012 04:53 Kreb wrote:
Ok, spent last 1.5h reading through last days pages (what better way to spend a saturday evening, ey?). Im not sure it even matter since BKE seems to be going out anyway, but the case on him seems like the best one so far. Voting for BKE.
Stay, if you can im just doing hw and playing ill be here till lynch.
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EPT
