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On September 04 2012 07:53 grush57 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2012 07:48 Toadesstern wrote:
The meaning was that I think he's a town blue and I therefore want to kill him as quickly as possible.
Or perhaps I don't like people pointing out useless stuff that has nothing to do with the game. I guess it has but what are we supposed to talk about the 2KP change or the vig addition he mentioned. Well, there is nothing else to talk about then until a scumslip or something. Talking about rules and such is how you figure out people stances and opinions which leads to finding out who is playing like town and who is playing like scum.
you say that and yet we're talking about why I think sloOsh deservers a vote and wether or not you agree with me.
Funny, isn't it?
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On September 04 2012 07:56 slOosh wrote:
Hapa, what is your idea of a town circle and how does it help us find / lynch / kill scum?
Toad - How is that useless stuff that has nothing to do with the game? The setup changed and maybe people haven't read the updates. I've asked you once and I'll do it again, what else do you want to talk about?
I don't know what you want to talk about. I'm talking about your useless post being useless.
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because of that one post? Of course not.
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On September 04 2012 08:07 Hapahauli wrote:
Toad, you seem pretty fixated on picking a fight with slOosh. It's only been a page, of posts, and he seems pretty townie to me.
well that's probably because I'm picking a fight with him for the sake of picking a fight with SOMEONE.
Grush actually explained it quite well without figureing it out.
I really don't like people talk about set-ups, roles or something else early on so I'm trying to get out of that phase as fast as possible. He made a bullshit-post like at least 3 other people did and I pointed it out although it's on ridiculously thin ground for the sake of getting some discussion.
Obviously you can take from that whatever you want.
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On September 04 2012 08:14 slOosh wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2012 08:01 slOosh wrote:On September 04 2012 07:58 Toadesstern wrote:On September 04 2012 07:56 slOosh wrote:
Hapa, what is your idea of a town circle and how does it help us find / lynch / kill scum?
Toad - How is that useless stuff that has nothing to do with the game? The setup changed and maybe people haven't read the updates. I've asked you once and I'll do it again, what else do you want to talk about? I don't know what you want to talk about. I'm talking about your useless post being useless. Well BlackMamba's recent post just shows that people can miss information. My post has already proven itself useful, and your opening post which tries to discredit mine has not. Do you think I'm scum by my first post? Show nested quote +On September 04 2012 08:03 Toadesstern wrote:
because of that one post? Of course not. Well your sentiment seems to be that you do indeed think I'm scum. Using my posts written prior to your retort (quoted above), can you show how you came to this conclusion?
I think your post resembles someone trying to pretend to add something to the discussion while really only pointing out stuff that everyone else should know about. Like doing votecounts inbetween to "help" people. Yes it can actually help people but you can just help people by doing normal stuff.
Obviously I'm not thinking you're mafia yet. I'm just pointing out that your post was bad without acknowledging that 50% of the posts done within the first 12hours or so are incredible bad to provoke reactions and that's what happened.
Here we are, getting some decent information about how people think about each other and why they post something rather than talking about how the vig-change might influence the game, which is an incredible easy topic to cover for mafia.
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On September 04 2012 08:28 Shady Sands wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2012 08:24 BlackMamba24 wrote:
how would scum not know who got roleblocked or hit Because if they hit a vet, they wouldn't know whether it was a medic, a vet, or whether their member got roleblocked.
well you obviously insta-claim any RB and you insta-claim any hit you took. You don't have to tell what made you survive.
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On September 04 2012 09:17 Mattchew wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2012 09:16 Hapahauli wrote:On September 04 2012 09:12 Mattchew wrote:
I am a nosy neighbor. Anyone else with this role should insta-claim as well. Hold up. Why would we want people with information roles to claim? ##vote hapahauli
need an honest answer. What do you consider worse:
a) People not thinking while posting / reading
b) People defending other people 1 hour into the game when they have no reason to do such a thing and should be happy to see as much posts from the person in question defending himself rather than stopping the discussion defending him.
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On September 04 2012 09:25 Mattchew wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2012 09:22 Toadesstern wrote:On September 04 2012 09:17 Mattchew wrote:On September 04 2012 09:16 Hapahauli wrote:On September 04 2012 09:12 Mattchew wrote:
I am a nosy neighbor. Anyone else with this role should insta-claim as well. Hold up. Why would we want people with information roles to claim? ##vote hapahauli need an honest answer. What do you consider worse: a) People not thinking while posting / reading b) People defending other people 1 hour into the game when they have no reason to do such a thing and should be happy to see as much posts from the person in question defending himself rather than stopping the discussion defending him. lol... could you have asked this more rhetorically?
yeah probably.
Answer?
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On September 04 2012 09:32 Hapahauli wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2012 09:26 Mattchew wrote:On September 04 2012 09:22 Hapahauli wrote:
Yeah I know what the role does, so what about it? I'll ask a question if I don't understand something. there is no information given to the role, it is a VT that (randomly) visits people. If a tracker or watcher see me on their check it could lead to a stupid mislynch Ah thanks for clearing it up. I'm just a bit wary of D1 claims in general after having seen SnB's "self-aware miller" claim in DeathNote Mini Mafia, justified or not. Show nested quote +On September 04 2012 09:22 Toadesstern wrote:On September 04 2012 09:17 Mattchew wrote:On September 04 2012 09:16 Hapahauli wrote:On September 04 2012 09:12 Mattchew wrote:
I am a nosy neighbor. Anyone else with this role should insta-claim as well. Hold up. Why would we want people with information roles to claim? ##vote hapahauli need an honest answer. What do you consider worse: a) People not thinking while posting / reading b) People defending other people 1 hour into the game when they have no reason to do such a thing and should be happy to see as much posts from the person in question defending himself rather than stopping the discussion defending him. Howabout c) People who pick fights with people who are trying to start conversation (slOosh) for the sake of picking fights?
well sloOshs post has done nothing so far. My post was the reason we're having this discussion instead of talk about vigs or the 2KP change, which is, as already pointed out, an incredible easy topic for mafia to cover and blend in while people who are talking about reads, even if they're minor, have to stand their ground at least somewhat.
Yes I totally see how that got to be malicious
On September 04 2012 09:35 BroodKingEXE wrote:
@Toad Im still confused about the vote on slOosh. You didn't agree with him for starting a useless discussion and that's grounds for keeping your vote on him?
There never was a vote on him to begin with lol
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On September 04 2012 09:33 Mattchew wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2012 09:30 Toadesstern wrote:On September 04 2012 09:25 Mattchew wrote:On September 04 2012 09:22 Toadesstern wrote:On September 04 2012 09:17 Mattchew wrote:On September 04 2012 09:16 Hapahauli wrote:On September 04 2012 09:12 Mattchew wrote:
I am a nosy neighbor. Anyone else with this role should insta-claim as well. Hold up. Why would we want people with information roles to claim? ##vote hapahauli need an honest answer. What do you consider worse: a) People not thinking while posting / reading b) People defending other people 1 hour into the game when they have no reason to do such a thing and should be happy to see as much posts from the person in question defending himself rather than stopping the discussion defending him. lol... could you have asked this more rhetorically? yeah probably. Answer? well you think its b. your wording says that, and I agree. however it completely depends on the situation. to play devils advocate, many TL towns have been blinded by stupid discussions about players that take up a lot of the thread and often lead to tunnelling and mislynches. If a simple defense post could avert this it would be better to have that post.
here comes the actual question:
Did you realize which post I was referring to?
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On September 04 2012 10:00 Mattchew wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2012 09:49 Toadesstern wrote:On September 04 2012 09:33 Mattchew wrote:On September 04 2012 09:30 Toadesstern wrote:On September 04 2012 09:25 Mattchew wrote:On September 04 2012 09:22 Toadesstern wrote:On September 04 2012 09:17 Mattchew wrote:On September 04 2012 09:16 Hapahauli wrote:On September 04 2012 09:12 Mattchew wrote:
I am a nosy neighbor. Anyone else with this role should insta-claim as well. Hold up. Why would we want people with information roles to claim? ##vote hapahauli need an honest answer. What do you consider worse: a) People not thinking while posting / reading b) People defending other people 1 hour into the game when they have no reason to do such a thing and should be happy to see as much posts from the person in question defending himself rather than stopping the discussion defending him. lol... could you have asked this more rhetorically? yeah probably. Answer? well you think its b. your wording says that, and I agree. however it completely depends on the situation. to play devils advocate, many TL towns have been blinded by stupid discussions about players that take up a lot of the thread and often lead to tunnelling and mislynches. If a simple defense post could avert this it would be better to have that post. here comes the actual question: Did you realize which post I was referring to? Show nested quote +On September 04 2012 08:07 Hapahauli wrote:
Toad, you seem pretty fixated on picking a fight with slOosh. It's only been a page, of posts, and he seems pretty townie to me. amirite?
Actually no but it's a good one as well.
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On September 04 2012 10:08 Hapahauli wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2012 10:06 Toadesstern wrote:On September 04 2012 10:00 Mattchew wrote:On September 04 2012 09:49 Toadesstern wrote:On September 04 2012 09:33 Mattchew wrote:On September 04 2012 09:30 Toadesstern wrote:On September 04 2012 09:25 Mattchew wrote:On September 04 2012 09:22 Toadesstern wrote:On September 04 2012 09:17 Mattchew wrote:On September 04 2012 09:16 Hapahauli wrote:
[quote]
Hold up. Why would we want people with information roles to claim? ##vote hapahauli need an honest answer. What do you consider worse: a) People not thinking while posting / reading b) People defending other people 1 hour into the game when they have no reason to do such a thing and should be happy to see as much posts from the person in question defending himself rather than stopping the discussion defending him. lol... could you have asked this more rhetorically? yeah probably. Answer? well you think its b. your wording says that, and I agree. however it completely depends on the situation. to play devils advocate, many TL towns have been blinded by stupid discussions about players that take up a lot of the thread and often lead to tunnelling and mislynches. If a simple defense post could avert this it would be better to have that post. here comes the actual question: Did you realize which post I was referring to? On September 04 2012 08:07 Hapahauli wrote:
Toad, you seem pretty fixated on picking a fight with slOosh. It's only been a page, of posts, and he seems pretty townie to me. amirite? Actually no but it's a good one as well. So who/what are you referring to then? I thought it was my post that mattchew picked out as well. On September 04 2012 08:22 DoYouHas wrote:
slOosh, my vote is neither stupid nor a throwaway. I have a friend who I consider a better player than me who has told me that getting BM out of the game quickly is always a good thing. It is meta as hell but it isn't stupid.
Toad's aggression towards you is completely null. You seem to be playing into your town meta so far, but I really won't know for sure until your first/second case.
I can perfectly talk about what I do myself and as Matt has pointed out, he should be happy to see both mine and sloOshs reaction to try and figure us out.
Furthermore as sloOsh has already pointed out (I think?) him pointing out that someone is playing into a town meta so early got to be a joke.
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On September 04 2012 10:22 Hapahauli wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2012 10:16 Z-BosoN wrote:On September 04 2012 10:13 Hapahauli wrote:On September 04 2012 10:12 Z-BosoN wrote:On September 04 2012 10:01 Forumite wrote:On September 04 2012 10:00 Z-BosoN wrote:
Hello folks ^^
I would appreciate it if someone could clear some things up, since I've never played in this setup yet. Right now I've noticed this new mechanic: visiting someone.
A nosy neighbor will randomly visit someone. This will be caught up by the town watcher and/or tracker.
Now what I don't understand: if a medic saves someone, or if a roleblocker blocks some, or if a Suicide Bomber plants a bomb somewhere, or if a goon tks someone, will they also "visit" this person? Yes, all nightactions, including mafia nightkills, can be detected by watchers and trackers. I´ve never seen you before. Have you been on TL-mafia long? What do you think about the game so far? Ah, I see, thanks  No, I haven't. So far I have only played in newbie xxiv, as scum. I've skimmed through the posts, and I'm still contemplating the implication of these new roles, and trying to figure out if it makes sense for noisy neighbors to claim. There are a lot of parallel discussions going on, but right now the filter I dislike the most is Sloosh's. Instead of attempting to make cases, he keeps asking questions and doesn't attempt to read peoples posts. 11/14 of his posts have questions, and I think this adds more confusion than it answers them. --Snip-- This is a scumread... really? Reads the exact opposite to me. I would agree with you if these questions were to provoke discussion. Except that some of his questions: "Do you think I'm scum by my first post?" "Where did I do that?" "What makes you think I think that?" Seem like avoidable questions that can be answered just reading. Instead of reading thoroughly, he simply keeps asking questions and doesn't move the discussion forward. Seems like an easy way to look town to me. Do they not provoke discussion? Him and Toadsstern were the center of the early-game discussion, and it seems pretty silly to be critical of someone's filter when they took it upon themselves to get things going. He sounds like a townie that's poking and prodding, looking for answers. This won't make him popular in the early game, but it does give me a town read on him.
What gave you the impression that sloOsh's the one poking around and prodding while I am the evil mastermind trying to get people lynched?
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On September 04 2012 10:27 Hapahauli wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2012 10:25 Toadesstern wrote:On September 04 2012 10:22 Hapahauli wrote:On September 04 2012 10:16 Z-BosoN wrote:On September 04 2012 10:13 Hapahauli wrote:On September 04 2012 10:12 Z-BosoN wrote:On September 04 2012 10:01 Forumite wrote:On September 04 2012 10:00 Z-BosoN wrote:
Hello folks ^^
I would appreciate it if someone could clear some things up, since I've never played in this setup yet. Right now I've noticed this new mechanic: visiting someone.
A nosy neighbor will randomly visit someone. This will be caught up by the town watcher and/or tracker.
Now what I don't understand: if a medic saves someone, or if a roleblocker blocks some, or if a Suicide Bomber plants a bomb somewhere, or if a goon tks someone, will they also "visit" this person? Yes, all nightactions, including mafia nightkills, can be detected by watchers and trackers. I´ve never seen you before. Have you been on TL-mafia long? What do you think about the game so far? Ah, I see, thanks No, I haven't. So far I have only played in newbie xxiv, as scum. I've skimmed through the posts, and I'm still contemplating the implication of these new roles, and trying to figure out if it makes sense for noisy neighbors to claim. There are a lot of parallel discussions going on, but right now the filter I dislike the most is Sloosh's. Instead of attempting to make cases, he keeps asking questions and doesn't attempt to read peoples posts. 11/14 of his posts have questions, and I think this adds more confusion than it answers them. --Snip-- This is a scumread... really? Reads the exact opposite to me. I would agree with you if these questions were to provoke discussion. Except that some of his questions: "Do you think I'm scum by my first post?" "Where did I do that?" "What makes you think I think that?" Seem like avoidable questions that can be answered just reading. Instead of reading thoroughly, he simply keeps asking questions and doesn't move the discussion forward. Seems like an easy way to look town to me. Do they not provoke discussion? Him and Toadsstern were the center of the early-game discussion, and it seems pretty silly to be critical of someone's filter when they took it upon themselves to get things going. He sounds like a townie that's poking and prodding, looking for answers. This won't make him popular in the early game, but it does give me a town read on him. What gave you the impression that sloOsh's the one poking around and prodding while I am the evil mastermind trying to get people lynched? Where did I say that? I think you're both town - that much should be inferred from my post.
Oh considering this post:On September 04 2012 09:32 Hapahauli wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2012 09:26 Mattchew wrote:On September 04 2012 09:22 Hapahauli wrote:
Yeah I know what the role does, so what about it? I'll ask a question if I don't understand something. there is no information given to the role, it is a VT that (randomly) visits people. If a tracker or watcher see me on their check it could lead to a stupid mislynch Ah thanks for clearing it up. I'm just a bit wary of D1 claims in general after having seen SnB's "self-aware miller" claim in DeathNote Mini Mafia, justified or not. Show nested quote +On September 04 2012 09:22 Toadesstern wrote:On September 04 2012 09:17 Mattchew wrote:On September 04 2012 09:16 Hapahauli wrote:On September 04 2012 09:12 Mattchew wrote:
I am a nosy neighbor. Anyone else with this role should insta-claim as well. Hold up. Why would we want people with information roles to claim? ##vote hapahauli need an honest answer. What do you consider worse: a) People not thinking while posting / reading b) People defending other people 1 hour into the game when they have no reason to do such a thing and should be happy to see as much posts from the person in question defending himself rather than stopping the discussion defending him. Howabout c) People who pick fights with people who are trying to start conversation (slOosh) for the sake of picking fights?
I figured you were referring to sloOsh being the guy in the shiny armor because you said
This won't make him popular in the early game, but it does give me a town read on him.
Thought him is singular and figured your read on me had not changed that quickly.
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anyways 3:30 am. Going to be, cya in a couple hours.
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On September 04 2012 13:42 BroodKingEXE wrote:Toad: Show nested quote +On September 04 2012 07:54 Toadesstern wrote:On September 04 2012 07:53 grush57 wrote:On September 04 2012 07:48 Toadesstern wrote:
The meaning was that I think he's a town blue and I therefore want to kill him as quickly as possible.
Or perhaps I don't like people pointing out useless stuff that has nothing to do with the game. I guess it has but what are we supposed to talk about the 2KP change or the vig addition he mentioned. Well, there is nothing else to talk about then until a scumslip or something. Talking about rules and such is how you figure out people stances and opinions which leads to finding out who is playing like town and who is playing like scum. you say that and yet we're talking about why I think sloOsh deservers a vote and wether or not you agree with me. Funny, isn't it? 1) He comes out of the box suspecting sloosh for posting a discussion starter. This is terrible reasoning, because firstly this is how 50% of all games start and second scum can use this as a cover, but he doesn't provide any reasoning from thinking he is for sure scum. Show nested quote +On September 04 2012 08:01 slOosh wrote:On September 04 2012 07:58 Toadesstern wrote:On September 04 2012 07:56 slOosh wrote:
Hapa, what is your idea of a town circle and how does it help us find / lynch / kill scum?
Toad - How is that useless stuff that has nothing to do with the game? The setup changed and maybe people haven't read the updates. I've asked you once and I'll do it again, what else do you want to talk about? I don't know what you want to talk about. I'm talking about your useless post being useless. Well BlackMamba's recent post just shows that people can miss information. My post has already proven itself useful, and your opening post which tries to discredit mine has not. Do you think I'm scum by my first post? Show nested quote +On September 04 2012 08:03 Toadesstern wrote:
because of that one post? Of course not. 2) Wait a minute, you voted for him and from the way you posted to Grush you thought he was scum. You did think he was scum from that first vote. Show nested quote +On September 04 2012 08:20 Toadesstern wrote:On September 04 2012 08:14 slOosh wrote:On September 04 2012 08:01 slOosh wrote:On September 04 2012 07:58 Toadesstern wrote:On September 04 2012 07:56 slOosh wrote:
Hapa, what is your idea of a town circle and how does it help us find / lynch / kill scum?
Toad - How is that useless stuff that has nothing to do with the game? The setup changed and maybe people haven't read the updates. I've asked you once and I'll do it again, what else do you want to talk about? I don't know what you want to talk about. I'm talking about your useless post being useless. Well BlackMamba's recent post just shows that people can miss information. My post has already proven itself useful, and your opening post which tries to discredit mine has not. Do you think I'm scum by my first post? On September 04 2012 08:03 Toadesstern wrote:
because of that one post? Of course not. Well your sentiment seems to be that you do indeed think I'm scum. Using my posts written prior to your retort (quoted above), can you show how you came to this conclusion? I think your post resembles someone trying to pretend to add something to the discussion while really only pointing out stuff that everyone else should know about. Like doing votecounts inbetween to "help" people. Yes it can actually help people but you can just help people by doing normal stuff. Obviously I'm not thinking you're mafia yet. I'm just pointing out that your post was bad without acknowledging that 50% of the posts done within the first 12hours or so are incredible bad to provoke reactions and that's what happened. Here we are, getting some decent information about how people think about each other and why they post something rather than talking about how the vig-change might influence the game, which is an incredible easy topic to cover for mafia. 3) This post is very passive to me, if he really was trying to obtain a response from sloosh, by now he should've had more than enough information to say town or mafia (or even come out and say null). What he has drawn from this is that he is "not thinking you're mafia yet", a stance that is pretty misleading. The last part makes something out of nothing tons of games start with some sort of non-alignment indicative conversation, does it really matter that sloosh's way was a slower way to reaching the same result? Show nested quote +On September 04 2012 09:36 Toadesstern wrote:On September 04 2012 09:32 Hapahauli wrote:On September 04 2012 09:26 Mattchew wrote:On September 04 2012 09:22 Hapahauli wrote:
Yeah I know what the role does, so what about it? I'll ask a question if I don't understand something. there is no information given to the role, it is a VT that (randomly) visits people. If a tracker or watcher see me on their check it could lead to a stupid mislynch Ah thanks for clearing it up. I'm just a bit wary of D1 claims in general after having seen SnB's "self-aware miller" claim in DeathNote Mini Mafia, justified or not. On September 04 2012 09:22 Toadesstern wrote:On September 04 2012 09:17 Mattchew wrote:On September 04 2012 09:16 Hapahauli wrote:On September 04 2012 09:12 Mattchew wrote:
I am a nosy neighbor. Anyone else with this role should insta-claim as well. Hold up. Why would we want people with information roles to claim? ##vote hapahauli need an honest answer. What do you consider worse: a) People not thinking while posting / reading b) People defending other people 1 hour into the game when they have no reason to do such a thing and should be happy to see as much posts from the person in question defending himself rather than stopping the discussion defending him. Howabout c) People who pick fights with people who are trying to start conversation (slOosh) for the sake of picking fights? well sloOshs post has done nothing so far. My post was the reason we're having this discussion instead of talk about vigs or the 2KP change, which is, as already pointed out, an incredible easy topic for mafia to cover and blend in while people who are talking about reads, even if they're minor, have to stand their ground at least somewhat. Yes I totally see how that got to be malicious On September 04 2012 09:35 BroodKingEXE wrote:
@Toad Im still confused about the vote on slOosh. You didn't agree with him for starting a useless discussion and that's grounds for keeping your vote on him? There never was a vote on him to begin with lol 4) The bolded part seems really out of place for a townie. It seems like a scum trying to buy cred for his actions. HIs reply to me avoids the question completely and lies about his intent before. Toad is scum. ##Vote: Toadstern
1) As mentioned. I never did. I picked him because he did a terrible post but frankly 50% of all the d1 posts are terrible. Clearly I can't say that to begin with though or I'd have to check out the 101 of pressuring again.
2) No I never thought he was scum based on that post as I already pointed out. I made it look like it to see what's going to happen. Again, it's somewhat like pressure although it's technically not the same. If I tell him "I think your post is stupid but as 50% of the d1 posts are usually stupid it's probably a null" he wouldn't have answered me at all or at least not in a fashion that would have provided any information. Neither would the rest of the thread have started talking about it.
3) More than enough information? It was 3 hours into the game and you keep treating it like I was only trying to get information on sloOsh. Yeah he was the main involved guy but the other people reacting to it (like you still not understanding what actually happened) is equally interessting. Not to mention that I obviously don't talk about my complete reads to openly unless I'm certain the guy in question is a mafia.
What I pointed out is a fraction of a read. On his own not worth a damn but it's a piece worth discussing and therefore worth posting although the read isn't anywhere near "completed". If there is such a thing as a completed read.
4) The bolded part was a joke as he said the very same thing himself and I got myself a note in my sheet as well about it saying: clicky! That's kind of odd. He shouldn't say that if he's a townie. I don't need people to tell me their posts are useful. If your post is useful people are going to figure that out themselves. So it really looks like it he wants to tell everyone how helpful he is or he's honestly pissed. I guess it's a null right now, did the same in L when people finally lynched Sandro and rubbed it into their faces because I'm quite prideful myself. Could be both a prideful townie who's pissed that I'm calling his post bullshit or a mafia who wants to tell people how awesome he is to look better
So as I had it down as a null I figured setting the score back to normal by doing the exact same thing with swapped names might work :p
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oh yeah missed that palmar thing.
##vote Matt
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On September 04 2012 22:55 Ottoxlol wrote:
Why so many people jump to vote Matt?
Whatever is his alignment he fucked up. Does this makes him scum?
Matt thought Noisys are aware of themselves. He has some kind of role. This is all we know.
If he's blue he could have done it to protect himself from scum.
If a scum would fakeclaim I think he would discuss it with his team first and do you all think every scum missed this thing? I highly doubt it. If anything Matt is a blue or assa.
This just provides an easy wagon to jump onto and removes d1 discussion as a whole, no town benefit from that.
Just because he did not play well it doesnt mean he's scum.
a blue doctor, jailkeep, Tracker, Watcher or Vigi however has no reason to be afraid. Maybe a Mad Hatter would be hard to explain but I'd doubt someone would want to fakeclaim as miller like that as a Mad Hatter.
Picture the situation you're in as a blue: We have trackers and Watchers. What happens is that at some time someone could say "Hey guys, Matt visited X at night Y".
If he's a doctor, tracker or a watcher that's no problem at all because the target in question didn't die. We want to know who visited people who ended up being dead. If he's a doc there's actually a chance he ended up saving someone and that someone could even confirm that. If he is a tracker or a Watcher he is able to claim the results, something Mafia is not able to do.
So a Doc, Tracker or a Watcher are all perfectly fine and there's no reason to fakeclaim like this.
A Jailer can somewhat confirm himself as well as the target he visited ended up being roleblocked every single night. It's only "somewhat" because a mafia RB is possible as well but after all if he's a Jailer he's again only going to visit people who ended up surviving the night.
A vig is somewhat tricky as it's an extremly easy fakeclaim for mafia to do but as long as you claim prior to the deadline everyone's going to be fine with that.
A Mad Hatter is, like a vigi somewhat tricky but as everything else you visited people. That in itself is not a reason to be suspicious of someone and the Mad Hatter is most likely going to visit people who ended up surviving as well unless either the Hatter decides to go after townish looking people for whatever reason or mafia decides to go after bad looking townies for whatever reason.
tl;dr: There's not a single scenario in which a fakeclaim as a blue makes sense. At least I can't think of one because you won't end up being tracked to a kill in pretty much all the cases. On top of that noone is going to be stupid enough to out someone who visited a guy who's still alive because that's basicly outing medics / tracker / watcher in most of the cases.
However there are a bunch of good reasons to fakeclaim this as mafia if you forgot that millers / NN are usually not self-aware in 90% of the games and just did it because he recently played a game with self-aware millers. I think Bang-Bang mafia was one of those for example.
So there's a shitton of explanations from a mafia point of view.
The only possible explanation from a town point of view would probably be "reversed psychology" although you're making yourself a target doing so, which isn't what a blue wants to do either unless he's a Hatter d2 or later.
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On September 05 2012 00:34 BroodKingEXE wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2012 22:19 Toadesstern wrote:On September 04 2012 13:42 BroodKingEXE wrote:Toad: On September 04 2012 07:54 Toadesstern wrote:On September 04 2012 07:53 grush57 wrote:On September 04 2012 07:48 Toadesstern wrote:
The meaning was that I think he's a town blue and I therefore want to kill him as quickly as possible.
Or perhaps I don't like people pointing out useless stuff that has nothing to do with the game. I guess it has but what are we supposed to talk about the 2KP change or the vig addition he mentioned. Well, there is nothing else to talk about then until a scumslip or something. Talking about rules and such is how you figure out people stances and opinions which leads to finding out who is playing like town and who is playing like scum. you say that and yet we're talking about why I think sloOsh deservers a vote and wether or not you agree with me. Funny, isn't it? 1) He comes out of the box suspecting sloosh for posting a discussion starter. This is terrible reasoning, because firstly this is how 50% of all games start and second scum can use this as a cover, but he doesn't provide any reasoning from thinking he is for sure scum. On September 04 2012 08:01 slOosh wrote:On September 04 2012 07:58 Toadesstern wrote:On September 04 2012 07:56 slOosh wrote:
Hapa, what is your idea of a town circle and how does it help us find / lynch / kill scum?
Toad - How is that useless stuff that has nothing to do with the game? The setup changed and maybe people haven't read the updates. I've asked you once and I'll do it again, what else do you want to talk about? I don't know what you want to talk about. I'm talking about your useless post being useless. Well BlackMamba's recent post just shows that people can miss information. My post has already proven itself useful, and your opening post which tries to discredit mine has not. Do you think I'm scum by my first post? On September 04 2012 08:03 Toadesstern wrote:
because of that one post? Of course not. 2) Wait a minute, you voted for him and from the way you posted to Grush you thought he was scum. You did think he was scum from that first vote. On September 04 2012 08:20 Toadesstern wrote:On September 04 2012 08:14 slOosh wrote:On September 04 2012 08:01 slOosh wrote:On September 04 2012 07:58 Toadesstern wrote:On September 04 2012 07:56 slOosh wrote:
Hapa, what is your idea of a town circle and how does it help us find / lynch / kill scum?
Toad - How is that useless stuff that has nothing to do with the game? The setup changed and maybe people haven't read the updates. I've asked you once and I'll do it again, what else do you want to talk about? I don't know what you want to talk about. I'm talking about your useless post being useless. Well BlackMamba's recent post just shows that people can miss information. My post has already proven itself useful, and your opening post which tries to discredit mine has not. Do you think I'm scum by my first post? On September 04 2012 08:03 Toadesstern wrote:
because of that one post? Of course not. Well your sentiment seems to be that you do indeed think I'm scum. Using my posts written prior to your retort (quoted above), can you show how you came to this conclusion? I think your post resembles someone trying to pretend to add something to the discussion while really only pointing out stuff that everyone else should know about. Like doing votecounts inbetween to "help" people. Yes it can actually help people but you can just help people by doing normal stuff. Obviously I'm not thinking you're mafia yet. I'm just pointing out that your post was bad without acknowledging that 50% of the posts done within the first 12hours or so are incredible bad to provoke reactions and that's what happened. Here we are, getting some decent information about how people think about each other and why they post something rather than talking about how the vig-change might influence the game, which is an incredible easy topic to cover for mafia. 3) This post is very passive to me, if he really was trying to obtain a response from sloosh, by now he should've had more than enough information to say town or mafia (or even come out and say null). What he has drawn from this is that he is "not thinking you're mafia yet", a stance that is pretty misleading. The last part makes something out of nothing tons of games start with some sort of non-alignment indicative conversation, does it really matter that sloosh's way was a slower way to reaching the same result? On September 04 2012 09:36 Toadesstern wrote:On September 04 2012 09:32 Hapahauli wrote:On September 04 2012 09:26 Mattchew wrote:On September 04 2012 09:22 Hapahauli wrote:
Yeah I know what the role does, so what about it? I'll ask a question if I don't understand something. there is no information given to the role, it is a VT that (randomly) visits people. If a tracker or watcher see me on their check it could lead to a stupid mislynch Ah thanks for clearing it up. I'm just a bit wary of D1 claims in general after having seen SnB's "self-aware miller" claim in DeathNote Mini Mafia, justified or not. On September 04 2012 09:22 Toadesstern wrote:On September 04 2012 09:17 Mattchew wrote:On September 04 2012 09:16 Hapahauli wrote:On September 04 2012 09:12 Mattchew wrote:
I am a nosy neighbor. Anyone else with this role should insta-claim as well. Hold up. Why would we want people with information roles to claim? ##vote hapahauli need an honest answer. What do you consider worse: a) People not thinking while posting / reading b) People defending other people 1 hour into the game when they have no reason to do such a thing and should be happy to see as much posts from the person in question defending himself rather than stopping the discussion defending him. Howabout c) People who pick fights with people who are trying to start conversation (slOosh) for the sake of picking fights? well sloOshs post has done nothing so far. My post was the reason we're having this discussion instead of talk about vigs or the 2KP change, which is, as already pointed out, an incredible easy topic for mafia to cover and blend in while people who are talking about reads, even if they're minor, have to stand their ground at least somewhat. Yes I totally see how that got to be malicious On September 04 2012 09:35 BroodKingEXE wrote:
@Toad Im still confused about the vote on slOosh. You didn't agree with him for starting a useless discussion and that's grounds for keeping your vote on him? There never was a vote on him to begin with lol 4) The bolded part seems really out of place for a townie. It seems like a scum trying to buy cred for his actions. HIs reply to me avoids the question completely and lies about his intent before. Toad is scum. ##Vote: Toadstern 1) As mentioned. I never did. I picked him because he did a terrible post but frankly 50% of all the d1 posts are terrible. Clearly I can't say that to begin with though or I'd have to check out the 101 of pressuring again. 2) No I never thought he was scum based on that post as I already pointed out. I made it look like it to see what's going to happen. Again, it's somewhat like pressure although it's technically not the same. If I tell him "I think your post is stupid but as 50% of the d1 posts are usually stupid it's probably a null" he wouldn't have answered me at all or at least not in a fashion that would have provided any information. Neither would the rest of the thread have started talking about it. 3) More than enough information? It was 3 hours into the game and you keep treating it like I was only trying to get information on sloOsh. Yeah he was the main involved guy but the other people reacting to it (like you still not understanding what actually happened) is equally interessting. Not to mention that I obviously don't talk about my complete reads to openly unless I'm certain the guy in question is a mafia. What I pointed out is a fraction of a read. On his own not worth a damn but it's a piece worth discussing and therefore worth posting although the read isn't anywhere near "completed". If there is such a thing as a completed read. 4) The bolded part was a joke as he said the very same thing himself and I got myself a note in my sheet as well about it saying: clicky! That's kind of odd. He shouldn't say that if he's a townie. I don't need people to tell me their posts are useful. If your post is useful people are going to figure that out themselves. So it really looks like it he wants to tell everyone how helpful he is or he's honestly pissed. I guess it's a null right now, did the same in L when people finally lynched Sandro and rubbed it into their faces because I'm quite prideful myself. Could be both a prideful townie who's pissed that I'm calling his post bullshit or a mafia who wants to tell people how awesome he is to look better So as I had it down as a null I figured setting the score back to normal by doing the exact same thing with swapped names might work :p Thing is a reaction is usually only one post. He responded so Im gonna assume you got something from it. You mention others that had interesting reactions, but you haven't drawn any reads from them as well. You can understand my fustration though right? Right now I see you as a player that's asking questions but not paying attention to the answers. Scummy in my book. Just to make it clear : What have you drawn for the sloOsh exchange, have others reactions seemed scummy to you? (if nothing say nothing)
yeah definitly. That's the reason I asked the not an actual quote but along the lines:
"what do you consider worse:
a) *stupid guy*
b) *softdefending guy*
Mostly I've got a bunch of people who I'd consider to be either lazy because they're not thinking while posting or they're mafia. I'm going to watch that a little more rather than pointing out every single thing I don't like because it's bound to include a mass of people who just don't have a clue what to do which is neither a mafia nor a town treat right now.
Especially considering the people who said those things.
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On September 05 2012 00:29 strongandbig wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2012 23:52 Maverick32x wrote:
I voted for Matt due to the lying- but I would be curious to hear if he has a defense of some kind?? lol. If matt was going to defend himself he would have said something by now other than "hey guys maybe I'm a VT trying to draw scum shots lol". I've played a bunch of games with Mattchew recently and based on those, I think this is him as scum. For example, if I were going to fakeclaim miller as scum, I would do it very differently. However, you have to remember a couple things about Mattchew: - he's lazy as fuck as scum, except in themed games - he's pretty aggressive as town a lot of the time. The example I was thinking about was from him in TL Mafia LV, where he and I were both town. He lied about taking a shot, and then when I suggested that it made no sense for him to take a scum shot and he might have been vigged, he attacked me like a moron for the rest of the game. Unlike that, in this game his lie doesn't have any follow-up. If it was a planned-out pro-town lie, which I imagine is what he'll pretend it is, he would have been all over the first few people to attack him. Instead he just disappeared. It seems much more likely that what he did was the same thing I did in deathnote - claimed miller without first asking the hosts whether millers are self-aware, and got caught for it. The difference is, I did it in a game with a closed setup. ##vote: mattchew
yeah Matt really is someone who's really in your face both as a townie and a mafia.
He's incredible aggressive and / or borderline insulting if people don't think the same way he does.
As mafia he's telling people to shut up and that he doesn't need to explain his reads a bit because people are to retarded to understand it anyways when he knows he's right about something, e.g. when he's bussing a buddy, defending a townie to get towncred or geniunely meant something another way and people are misinterpreting what he said due to a type or something like that.
As Town he does the same when he heavily think's he's right or when someone misunderstands him.
His calm and almost not existing involvement here defenitly is not what matt does when somethings "wrong" according to him.
That either means he acknowledges that he screwed up as a town or that he acknowledges that he screwed up as a mafia and doesn't think it's going to help anymore.
As already mentioned I don't see a reason at all for a town to fakeclaim like this and combine that with him "giving up" and you're good to go.
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