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On September 05 2012 12:43 Z-BosoN wrote:
Allright, Mattchew is set to be lynched.
What can we conclude if he flips scum or town?
In the unlikely event that he will flip town, will we have enough evidence to go for a BC lynch?
My take is, if he flips town, BC's suspicions will go way up, but I don't agree with insta-lynch. We all agreed that fakeclaiming is not something a blue role would do, and is most likely coming from scum.
If he flips scum, then we will take a long hard look at the people who insist that he shouldn't be lynched.
Ox, as of now, is my top candidate for a lynch. He's been so obnoxious and so annoying regarding the whole Mattchew business that he looks the most suspicious up to now. He also has been of zero usefulness this entire game.
@Shiaopi
Your meta is a little off from Dwarf Mafia, where you were town and had much more contribuitive posts in day 1. When will your internet be fixed? Basically that, if Matt flips town, then BC could be anything, but if Matt flips scum then BC is most likely town, and everyone who defended Matt until Palmars confirmation looks kind of bad. People who defend Matt after Palmars confirmation look bad for creating a disruption over something that is allready decided, that Matt lied and needs to die, but I think most scum jumped on the bandwagon long ago.
If Matt is an Assassin then we get rid of both the 3rd Party in return for 2 townies dead. Not a good trade, but I think it´s unlikely that Matt is an assassin. There´s no point in not defending yourself to the end as a 3rd Party, while scum often shut up to avoid giving away any of their buddies.
On September 05 2012 14:38 Bill Murray wrote:
No, Forumite. I don't see how you get that whatsoever. I see you as being scum with Mattchew for not jumping on voting him there. Isn´t that a different accusation? Before you accuse me of trying to get Matt to claim (meaning that you thought I was scum and Matt town), and now you say I´m scum together with Matt. To answer why I didn´t vote Matt early, at the time I was weighing on what Matt was and engaged him in conversation to get a better read, but until Palmar confirmed how Nosy Neighbors works, there wasn´t enough on Matt for me to throw down a vote. Matt was suspicious for claiming NN, but there were no proof that he was really lying at the time. Why should I vote someone who claims a town role unless I have a good reason to think he´s lying?
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On September 06 2012 06:43 Bill Murray wrote:Show nested quote +On September 05 2012 21:19 Forumite wrote:On September 05 2012 14:38 Bill Murray wrote:
No, Forumite. I don't see how you get that whatsoever. I see you as being scum with Mattchew for not jumping on voting him there. Isn´t that a different accusation? Before you accuse me of trying to get Matt to claim (meaning that you thought I was scum and Matt town), and now you say I´m scum together with Matt. To answer why I didn´t vote Matt early, at the time I was weighing on what Matt was and engaged him in conversation to get a better read, but until Palmar confirmed how Nosy Neighbors works, there wasn´t enough on Matt for me to throw down a vote. Matt was suspicious for claiming NN, but there were no proof that he was really lying at the time. Why should I vote someone who claims a town role unless I have a good reason to think he´s lying? you're jumping to conclusions you could be coaching him into a tracker claim as his scumbuddy (what i thought) because he fucked up, and you were trying to salvage the situation. You're playing dumb, here, which is another scum indicator. I understand engaging in conversation to get a better read of the situation, but to me it felt like you weren't sure whether or not to bus him. How did you not know how nosy neighbors worked? We've used this setup before. Proof he was lying? see my last statement .... he was fucking lying. I was trying to figure out if there was any benefit at all of him claiming NN. I was asking questions to understand his motivation, because I was unsure if he was a bad townie or a gambling scum, because I was trying to figure out if I was going to vote him or not. Of course it looked like I was unsure wether to vote him or not, I was!
And no, I didn´t know how NN worked until Palmar cleared it up. I rarely read other games and so didn´t know how this setup played out the last time. I thought it was more likely that they were not selfaware, but there was no proof of that, even the way it worked in another game doesn´t mean this game must work the same way.
Was there proof of Matt lying before Palmar posted? Where?
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On September 06 2012 08:01 Maverick32x wrote:
Why am I being casually FoS'ed? I don't think I've ever seen a solid case against me, but I keep seeing people just drop my name into the list as an add-on without any reason?
I find THAT a bit suspicious. Weird, I see what you mean, and I agree. It´s a bad idea to tag you on as a regular suspect at the end of a scumlist. You deserve a top position for your first post on Matt before the Palmar confirmation. That´s a top-grade wishy-washy chainsaw-defence scum post.
On September 04 2012 13:17 Maverick32x wrote:
Hey guys- got a chance to catch up and I have a couple thoughts.
First- Not totally comfortable voting Mattchew at this point.. I understand the potential for lying about the role claim.. and I'm not a big fan of role claiming in general... HOWEVER- I'd like to reiterate BlackMamba's post that said something to the tune of "ITT- Townies arguing with Townies" because I find that people are so quick to blame each other for stupid stuff that we end up wasting the first couple days with literally zero reason for voting someone besides "They drew a picture"....
That being said- I'd like to draw a little bit of attention to the first voter for whom I feel like I can make an actual observation on- Toadesstern.
The reason I want to focus on that is just because of the speed at which he strikes out just makes me wonder why that's beneficial from a town perspective? And I'm just wondering if he just wanted to try to promote chaos right away?? Also- consistently attacking other posters seems to be a trend....
My reads:
Maverick32x (Scum)
Everyone else (Null)
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On September 06 2012 08:21 BlackMamba24 wrote:
why does everyone suddenly think ottoxlol is town I think the reasoning goes "Too obnoxious to be scum".
Why do you think he´s scum?
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I´ve got good timing, getting cases on me right at the end of the night.
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If Ottox would have been alive right now then I expect he´d allready have a few votes. Him dying saved us a day of discussion.
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=(
Toades, what do you want most, an answer to the case on me posted during the night, or my top scumreads. It´s late and I´m too tired to do both right now.
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On September 07 2012 07:56 Toadesstern wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2012 07:48 Forumite wrote:
=(
Toades, what do you want most, an answer to the case on me posted during the night, or my top scumreads. It´s late and I´m too tired to do both right now. I don't consider the case on you to be good and I don't agree with it. I want to lynch you because of method or elimination. So I'd rather see you talk about targets for today. I have two scumreads right now. I had Ottox down as scum, I was wrong but it shouldn´t affect the other reads. They are both based on the time around Matts claim. The first one is Maverick for his first post in the game, it was a reaction to Matts claim and the situation around it, and he was basically trying to divert attention to everyone else, without committing to anything. The second one is Hapa for his posts during the same time. The post below sums it up well.
On September 04 2012 09:32 Hapahauli wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2012 09:26 Mattchew wrote:On September 04 2012 09:22 Hapahauli wrote:
Yeah I know what the role does, so what about it? I'll ask a question if I don't understand something. there is no information given to the role, it is a VT that (randomly) visits people. If a tracker or watcher see me on their check it could lead to a stupid mislynch Ah thanks for clearing it up. I'm just a bit wary of D1 claims in general after having seen SnB's "self-aware miller" claim in DeathNote Mini Mafia, justified or not. Show nested quote +On September 04 2012 09:22 Toadesstern wrote:On September 04 2012 09:17 Mattchew wrote:On September 04 2012 09:16 Hapahauli wrote:On September 04 2012 09:12 Mattchew wrote:
I am a nosy neighbor. Anyone else with this role should insta-claim as well. Hold up. Why would we want people with information roles to claim? ##vote hapahauli need an honest answer. What do you consider worse: a) People not thinking while posting / reading b) People defending other people 1 hour into the game when they have no reason to do such a thing and should be happy to see as much posts from the person in question defending himself rather than stopping the discussion defending him. Howabout c) People who pick fights with people who are trying to start conversation (slOosh) for the sake of picking fights? When I read this post at first, I see Hapa buddying up with Matt and throwing suspicion on those attacking him. It didn´t feel right, Matt claiming didn´t arouse any suspicion in him. He said hi to Matt and then chided those attacking him.
That´s the ones that jumped out at me when reading the thread. Yes, I should reread all the spam from yesterday, I´ll see about that tomorrow.
tl;dr:
Hapahauli
Maverick32x
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@Maverick
Okay, ignore Hapa for a while, and leave the OMGUS out of it. Let´s talk about you.
I say you made one of the most wishy-washy initial showings of this game. If this was Dwarf Fortress Mafia, I´d have voted you right away based on that post alone, and in this game I wouldn't have gotten lynched for it. You defended a confirmed scum during the crucial time during which Matts scumbuddies might have tried to save him. This is why you look bad. You wait on responding to this accusation until now, instead of yesterday when I first brought this up, and you do it by calling on the accusations others make on me. I know there are cases on me, but how does that make you look better in any way?
And really, you quote the one from Bill Murray? He took back his accusations allready. Quote the ones from the end of the night instead, they are at least fresh.
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On September 07 2012 10:14 Maverick32x wrote:
I don't even know what Dwarf Fortress Mafia is?? How is that relevant?
And yes- I acknowledge I defended Matt because I had no reason NOT to. He had just made a post and a couple people started to jump on him about it.
I honestly would not of voted him if Palmer didn't say that NN were not self-aware.
I'm not too concerned with 'looking better' but rather trying to scum hunt and win. I disagree, you DO need a reason to defend someone. If you didn´t have a very strong townread on him, then the natural thing to do is to wait and see if the case sticks. You defended him, that means you either thought he was a townie (please explain what made you think that), that you thought the case on him was without weight (even though there were nothing and noone supporting Matts claim that NNs are selfaware) or because you wanted him to live for other reasons (this is the alternative where both of you are scum...)
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On September 07 2012 13:12 Maverick32x wrote:
@Forumite-
I guess we have different perspectives when it comes to scum hunting? The majority of players are town.. so wouldn't it be smarter to do some 'innocent until proven guilty'? As opposed to just blasting everyone because everyone else is doing it?
All this being said- I'm wondering if we should just lynch a lurker? I feel like allowing scum to lurk is a bad plan? I don´t think you are paranoid enough for this game. Everyone is a possible scum until they are confirmed or flip. If two players attack eachother, then you look at the conversation to get a feel if one of them are scummy, a case and a defence against that case is a source of information, but if you interfere in a way that shuts down the conversation, then that opportunity for information and analysis disappear.
As for lurker lynch, why don´t you want to lynch me? You called me scum after the daypost.
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@Hapahauli
Your case on BKE looks good. He went from treating fakeclaiming as a nulltell to requiring no justification for voting based on it, while the only thing that seemed to have changed was that a bandwagon started, and that Palmar confirmed that NNs are not selfaware. Even after Palmar confirmed, the main reason for Matts lynch was STILL him fakeclaim, the only thing that changed was that we had proof that it was a fakeclaim, but that shouldn´t have mattered to BKE. What might have changed his view of the situation is the number of votes dropping in on Matt.
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@Toades
After the D2-post you said you didn´t like the case on me provided by Hapless and Hapa, but you still thought I was probably scum. The only reason I remember was elimination, out of the people you stated are vets they are either dead or me, and those who died flipped town. Is that your case, "There should be scum among the vets, and now that some flipped town, the living ones are probably scum"? Because it´s a very convenient thing to say for scum, if people say there must be scum in a group, then scum kill half the group if it´s full of town, and leave it alone if there´s a scum in it so their buddy can hide better. I´m not saying that´s what happened, but it´s shaky to claim this early in a game that the last survivor of a group of must be scum event though the others flipped town.
Apart from that you said you thought I wasn´t as aggressive as usual. Partly that is because I don´t keep myself as updated as I usually do due to more stuff happening IRL than usual, but I also don´t want to make the mistake I did in DF-Mafia.
Anyway you need more reasons to you call me scum. What is it?
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@ Toades
That´s it? You call me scum based on a feeling that I´m a bit more cautious than usual? I thought there must be something more that I missed but apparently not.
BKE didn´t impress me with his reply to the case so I´m putting down my vote. The main reason is, in case I didn´t say before, that if BKE didn´t think a fakeclaim was a reason to lynch someone because it´s a coinflip, then the same should be true for a confirmed liar. Even if he lied it could have been as a blue. BKE gave Matt the benefit of the doubt as to the reason for his claim while the case was young, but didn´t when there were 15 votes on him.
##Vote: BroodKingExe
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On September 08 2012 15:58 BroodKingEXE wrote:
Guys this lynch is not happening. Its like 12:00 PST I'll make a good case in the morning, but Im forced to say Im Watcher. Night One I visited BC and got back GK -_-. This doesn´t really help, you or us. There´s no new information, or at least no new relevant information, a typical scumclaim in that it doesn´t give town anything, and an assassin could throw it together from public information. Your claim doesn´t help town, nor change the case.
Anyway, explain your reasoning, why visit BC?
Further, you are preparing a case, on whom? Who is your big scumread?
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At page 61 and catching up.
I had a thought: What if scum only have their suicide-bomber kill 2 players with his ability and one of their nightkills, while the others hold their powers? They wouldn´t risk exposing anyone to watchers and trackers, while still getting a decent amount of nightkills. They lose 1 of their 2 nightly KP, save their Vigilante bullets for later, and don´t mind missing a roleblock use because it´s only the medic that they could gain anything from roleblocking. With Matt dying D1, I could see scum getting nervous and doing something like this.
tl;dr: The lack of roleblocks and missing scum nightkill is because scum didn´t use all their abilities last night.
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Caught up. Still think scum held a killpower in order to get another night to find blues before they need to worry about the blues finding them.
I like the lynch we have and am keeping my vote on BKE, he´s too quiet for a player up for the lynch.
I have a read as "useless troll that needs to die" on grush. Seriously, what was that 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12 song about?
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On September 09 2012 04:03 BroodKingEXE wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2012 04:01 Forumite wrote:
Caught up. Still think scum held a killpower in order to get another night to find blues before they need to worry about the blues finding them.
I like the lynch we have and am keeping my vote on BKE, he´s too quiet for a player up for the lynch.
I have a read as "useless troll that needs to die" on grush. Seriously, what was that 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12 song about? What are you talking about, Ive been here. Yeah, and while you were here you´ve made cases on Maverick, Shady and Z-boson and a few one-liners, but since your claim you haven´t talked about yourself. You have loads of votes on you, but you focus on pointing out scummier targets instead of defending yourself.
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On September 09 2012 04:08 Gravan wrote:Okay, reader: You're about to be lynched. The deadline is closing in. You're previous few posts have not convinced the players of the game to sway their votes - the wagon is gaining momentum. What do you do? Show nested quote +On September 09 2012 03:56 BroodKingEXE wrote:
@Austin Your case looks good except for the smiles. They seem more like a mockery of GKs original smile.
##Unvote
##Vote: Z-Boson lol, my thoughts exactly
On September 09 2012 04:08 Gravan wrote:Also: Show nested quote +On September 09 2012 04:01 Forumite wrote:
Caught up. Still think scum held a killpower in order to get another night to find blues before they need to worry about the blues finding them.
I like the lynch we have and am keeping my vote on BKE, he´s too quiet for a player up for the lynch.
I have a read as "useless troll that needs to die" on grush. Seriously, what was that 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12 song about? Did you consider the possibility of a doctor (or jailer) healing (or roleblocking) the other mafia KP? I considered it, but in my experience doctors rarely save people directly, instead they make sure scum either have to doublestack town leaders or kill less attractive targets who are unlikely to get medic-protection.
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EPT
