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Hey all. I've been halfway following along, but really need to go back and read through this as there seem to be a couple main plot lines going on.
I know zelblade didn't really give you much, so I'll get some thoughts together and hopefully tonight or tomorrow morning. For now, I'm just going to do a quick read over the last little bit and get a vote on someone, don't have time while at work to fully catch up. The main lynch candidates are...wiggles, dirkzor, mattchew, misder, hopeless?
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Quick glance. I don't read Hopeless1der as scummy as everyone else seems to.
The timing on that weird mattchew defense is off, but ... the whole thing feels off. Working off of a comment WBG made about not liking to assume players are bad, you're assuming really bad play from Hopeless1der in my mind if he's scum based on that defense (I know that's not 100% of why people are voting him). There's too much of it, at an awkward time. It feels much more like an actual attempt to push votes because of how much stuff is there, rather than a defense in order to get town cred later.
I'm alright with voting Misder, his last 2 posts are just big ol' blobs of town reads and thoughts never carried to their conclusion. Lots of wishy washy stuff, lots of outs for him to move votes later. There's really just nothing there.
Haven't had time to fully read back over mattchew, dirkzor, wiggles. I remember not loving wiggles while halfway following along.
Random side note, it appears that someone has got some nasty KP based on the BC kill: + Show Spoiler +On August 23 2012 20:19 deconduo wrote: BloodyC0bbler has been incinerated.
You are Growlithe, a Fire type Pokemon. BC was fire-type. But BC's death flavor was "incinerated," which indicates a fire-type killed him, and On August 24 2012 13:40 GreYMisT wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2012 11:37 Mr. Wiggles wrote: Is kill flavour an indicator of how someone died, or is it purely flavour? Its an indicator to some degree
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Okay, done a little more catching up. I'm really liking MrWiggles for scum.
BC's Case + Show Spoiler +On August 23 2012 16:01 BloodyC0bbler wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2012 14:41 Mr. Wiggles wrote:On August 23 2012 10:19 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On August 23 2012 10:17 Mattchew wrote:On August 23 2012 10:16 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On August 23 2012 10:15 Mattchew wrote:On August 23 2012 10:13 Mementoss wrote: Mattchew Heist Misder WBG
Haven't heard much from these pokemon lately. interesting, why not wiggles or dirk in that list? He excluded scum From the list obviously if you are not being sarcastic that is my thought process I still like dirk as red, and wiggles has done absolutely nothing to help town period this game. He however has managed to find time to criticize people and claim they must be red with 0 case. (see bugs' post a few pages ago on wiggles to see what I mean). So, this post stuck out to me, because of the misdirection it's pushing. It's funny, because he says I claim people are red, when all I said is I think that at least one of BC and WBG are red. There wasn't a declaration about which I thought was red, just that I thought there was red between them. However, BC reacts very defensively here. His reasoning for me being a scum candidate is that I'm criticizing people and claiming "they must" be red without a case. But the fun part is I didn't call either him or WBG red directly, I just said one of them were red. So, why the defensiveness and near-OMGUS? If for example, I had said that there was at least one red among all the players still alive, no one would care. It would be fallacious to say that I was saying all of them must be red without a case. So then why the difference when I limit it to a small pool of players? Now the next fun part is that besides saying I'm claiming some people must be red when all I did was say that I thought at least one bandwagon was started by scum (which is a reason, by the way), BC criticizes me for doing so without making a case on either one. He also uses this to support the conclusion that I'm scum. This would be fine coming from another player, but not from BC, or at least not if you've read his filter. Let's take a look, shall we? + Show Spoiler [The Terrible Terrible Contradiction Re…] +On August 20 2012 10:19 BloodyC0bbler wrote: Whoever said third time is the charm is a horrible liar. Also people stop role speculating. Previous PtP games have seen really amazing ideas thought up and ones that lack any sort of creativity.
What people should instead be concentrating is scum and people trying to push scumish ideas. As Kurumi made the statement of role cops being the best form of cop he is obviously scum.
Now lets continue finding the rest of his team as it appears they are going to out themselves easily. Explanation came 6 hours later. On August 21 2012 04:33 BloodyC0bbler wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2012 16:16 Dirkzor wrote:Oh god. 7 pages of nothingness so far. Oh and btw I'm to.. No... not that. Horrible way to enter a thread. On August 20 2012 07:41 Drazerk wrote: ##Take In Sunlight
##Solar Beam: VisceraEyes On August 20 2012 07:56 Drazerk wrote:On August 20 2012 07:55 strongandbig wrote:On August 20 2012 07:52 Drazerk wrote:On August 20 2012 07:51 Toadesstern wrote:On August 20 2012 07:48 Drazerk wrote:On August 20 2012 07:46 Toadesstern wrote: as if. I'll consider that a troll and if you really do damage I'll blast right back.
Also: sup guyses I GOT A KP ROLE OUT OF MY TROLL Basically all I wanted I said you're trolling. Go figure what that might mean for my post. Still you wouldn't do the threat if you couldn't back up with something other than a half assed vote that means nothing soooooo... why were you trying to out kp roles? Track the damage track the scum Since this is the most interesting thing so far I'll guess its also the best way to start. Drazerk's maybe fake solar beam doesn't make any sense. I know its Drazerk so in that way I could be excused. But the way he explained it doesn't fit a Drazerk move (as I remember him from last I played). I would have expected a more "Because I wanted too" response. All that is meta and not super reliable. But "Track the damage track the scum" doesn't even make sense. Even if you know that Toad have a KP doesn't make it easier to find scum? I dislike Drazerk's posting so far... I end it with this lulz: On August 20 2012 10:44 Drazerk wrote:On August 20 2012 10:34 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On August 20 2012 10:28 Drazerk wrote:On August 20 2012 10:27 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On August 20 2012 10:23 Drazerk wrote:On August 20 2012 10:23 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On August 20 2012 10:17 Drazerk wrote: I'm with wiggles there are super powers out there that prey on certain information being known (Steamship 4 shot sniper comes to mind)
So the following -
No pokemon names No Type No role information No claiming medic to save scum
Anyone who does this will probably just be shot down or turned green Why do you keep stating obvious things -_- I have my reasons I hope they don't revolve around you using the argument later of "look at how helpful I was being, I clearly cannot be scum" because well, general advice to a group of players who at this point should all know the basics of playing clearly wouldn't need said advice. I never defend myself You should know this by now Then you should really stop playing so scummy. Playing as you are now reaks almost as distinctly red as mr kurumi over there. He smells bad. Theres no real way for me to stop looking like scum with my play style and its why you will need to kill me (I said kill not lynch) before Lylo other whys ill make an awful call at a critical situation and lose town the game or you will all suspect me and lose town the game. Man, I think dirk just claimed scum with this post. hurrah Explanation came 5 hours later. On August 20 2012 10:34 BloodyC0bbler wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2012 10:28 Drazerk wrote:On August 20 2012 10:27 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On August 20 2012 10:23 Drazerk wrote:On August 20 2012 10:23 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On August 20 2012 10:17 Drazerk wrote: I'm with wiggles there are super powers out there that prey on certain information being known (Steamship 4 shot sniper comes to mind)
So the following -
No pokemon names No Type No role information No claiming medic to save scum
Anyone who does this will probably just be shot down or turned green Why do you keep stating obvious things -_- I have my reasons I hope they don't revolve around you using the argument later of "look at how helpful I was being, I clearly cannot be scum" because well, general advice to a group of players who at this point should all know the basics of playing clearly wouldn't need said advice. I never defend myself You should know this by now Then you should really stop playing so scummy. Playing as you are now reaks almost as distinctly red as mr kurumi over there. He smells bad. No case. On August 21 2012 05:38 BloodyC0bbler wrote: Chezinu has not yet tried to make a new house called the chezinu house, fake claimed a role, or said hes brown. Guy is mafia yo. No case. On August 22 2012 07:43 BloodyC0bbler wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2012 04:05 Mementoss wrote:On August 22 2012 03:54 Toadesstern wrote: mementoss what's your take on Dirkzor vs Drazerk vs imallinson? Drazerk - commented more in detail before but troll bad town for now Dirkzor - the only thing suspicious about him seems to be his mess up in meta to try and make imallinson look worse than he is. I think this could be an honest mistake however. Most people voting for Dirkzor are people I don't trust, makes me uneasy. imallinson - will probably be where I'm placing my vote. I commented on it a bit before but will re-iterate. His initial posts were made to look like he contributed and actually tried drag day 1 discussion backwards. He did nothing for scum hunting and when criticized on this fact made a half ass case on SnB just to say he did. Spent most of the time defending himself which shittered up the thread and buried useful posts that were scum hunting at the time, it looks really bad in context. Also in the defence of himself he threw the heat onto dirkzor, who was an easy target because he had early heat in this game anyways. To take this further, his scum buddy who he planned this with, BC, immediately made a case onto dirkzor and got the wagon rolling. Look at the people voting for him, can you honestly say any of them look better than neutral to you?In this order: BC, imallinson, VE, mattchew, misder. I would like to hear your take on Dirkzor vs Drazerk vs imallinson additionally. ##Unvote: Mattchew ##Vote: Imallinson Well as you called me scum, and sheeped onto a now confirmed town player as well as lied in the bolded section. Guess what duder, I was putting heat and pressure on both draz + dirk before a case on allinson was EVER MADE. Now obviously thats only a minor lie, but given that I had out right said Dirk Scumclaimed well before that its still a lie. Also given how people voted. Dirk/ mementoss/bumatlarge for likely reds. No case on Bum, and flimsy reasoning on Mementoss. On August 22 2012 11:32 BloodyC0bbler wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2012 10:55 grush57 wrote: Okay so, I get banned, then People are all up in Drazerk's face because he is telling everybody to kill him and being stupid with that attitude. Still, I think he is town. Then the town switched to Dirkzor, I don't think he is scum either, he is helping out and responding. Hopeless1dr ninja votes, he is scum. People calling out Kurumi for being scummy, I agree. Toad(jk, lol idk) shoots VE, people get on VE's chain for policy lynching. NO ONE IS UP IN JINGLE'S GRILL ABOUT HIM WANTING TO POLICY LYNCH ME:O. Also I think Hiropro? Heist? made a post calling out Jingle which is good cuz he is scum. Then it's like Zephirrid(null on him, he has been getting scummier the longer the game has been going so far) and imallison(who I thought was a noob townie) and dirkzor(I think he is town aswell). End up lynching a townie and thats about where we were at.
So my scum list is: JingleHell(SCUMSCUMSCUM) Hopeless1dr(ninja vote, scum) Maybe BioSC(I don't even know why but he is scum) How is dirk helping? I would like a detailed response on that. I will agree that hopeless is likely scum at this point though. No case here either. On August 23 2012 10:22 BloodyC0bbler wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2012 10:18 Kurumi wrote:On August 23 2012 10:16 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On August 23 2012 10:15 Mattchew wrote:On August 23 2012 10:13 Mementoss wrote: Mattchew Heist Misder WBG
Haven't heard much from these pokemon lately. interesting, why not wiggles or dirk in that list? He excluded scum From the list obviously So you are defending all those people? KIta died , chez died , bum died ... Who is left , my dear Cobbler? All of them? no, but clear ignorance of people who should still be in the spotlight is ridiculous. Of that list only wbg to me is a town read and the other three are null's. Misder is likely scum based on similar level to his scum levels but hes also notorious for lurking period. Reasoning is based on activity... On August 23 2012 10:24 BloodyC0bbler wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2012 10:23 Mattchew wrote:On August 23 2012 10:22 Mementoss wrote:On August 23 2012 10:19 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On August 23 2012 10:17 Mattchew wrote:On August 23 2012 10:16 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On August 23 2012 10:15 Mattchew wrote:On August 23 2012 10:13 Mementoss wrote: Mattchew Heist Misder WBG
Haven't heard much from these pokemon lately. interesting, why not wiggles or dirk in that list? He excluded scum From the list obviously if you are not being sarcastic that is my thought process I still like dirk as red, and wiggles has done absolutely nothing to help town period this game. He however has managed to find time to criticize people and claim they must be red with 0 case. (see bugs' post a few pages ago on wiggles to see what I mean). But mattchew has done something to help town? :S I found SnB as town, and I am pretty sure VE is town too now. so thats pretty helpful what exactly have you done meme? other than bandwagon a townie lynch? you do realize you just claimed scum here right? On August 23 2012 10:35 BloodyC0bbler wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2012 10:32 Mementoss wrote:On August 23 2012 10:24 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On August 23 2012 10:23 Mattchew wrote:On August 23 2012 10:22 Mementoss wrote:On August 23 2012 10:19 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On August 23 2012 10:17 Mattchew wrote:On August 23 2012 10:16 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On August 23 2012 10:15 Mattchew wrote:On August 23 2012 10:13 Mementoss wrote: Mattchew Heist Misder WBG
Haven't heard much from these pokemon lately. interesting, why not wiggles or dirk in that list? He excluded scum From the list obviously if you are not being sarcastic that is my thought process I still like dirk as red, and wiggles has done absolutely nothing to help town period this game. He however has managed to find time to criticize people and claim they must be red with 0 case. (see bugs' post a few pages ago on wiggles to see what I mean). But mattchew has done something to help town? :S I found SnB as town, and I am pretty sure VE is town too now. so thats pretty helpful what exactly have you done meme? other than bandwagon a townie lynch? you do realize you just claimed scum here right? I dont get it either Because he has done nothing useful (so far) to help the town in any way. To come out and say "i found blah as town and I think blah is town" is great. You know who likes finding town? or more specifically, differentiating town from third party or town from mafia? Not fucking townies. Saying your green reads is awesome, but if you don't state your red cases with actual reasons and instead just hop on wagons / spout green reads you are likely not town. First time BC has called someone red and then actually made any kind of quick follow up with actual reasoning for it. He was still asked for his reasoning before he gave it though. Ding! Ding! Ding! We have a winner!!! So all in all, according to BC , we have a 9-person scum team of: Kurumi Drazerk Dirkzor Chezinu Mementoss Bumatlarge Hopeless1der Misder Mattchew Only one of these accusations had any sort of case or reasoning to go along with it when he posted it. Two of them had cases posted many hours after the actual accusation. So, that's either 8 or 6 people he has called scum without any kind of case or reasoning to back it up. But in the post I have quoted up at the top, BC says that one of the reasons I'm looking bad is that I called out "people" without a case. That's hypocrisy and contradiction at it's finest. In addition, the very fact that BC has called out so many people without any reasoning is alarming as well. He likes to call people out as not being useful to town or helping the town at all, which is funny when you look at his own posts. Basically, they consist of three things: -Making accusations with no case/reasoning -Role/setup speculation and general advice -Backing up his accusations only when asked Besides the couple cases he has actually bothered to explain, I wouldn't call his posts very "helpful". If you look through his posts without treating his posting as a whole, you might be tricked into thinking he's helping the town or actively scumhunting, but all he's doing is posting accusations that accomplish nothing and do nothing to help us kill scum. Now, the last thing to note is the general attitude with which BC has been treating his cases, particularly the one on Dirkzor today. He doesn't sound like he cares that much about lynching his target. This is a jarring distinction from the way he addresses the players he's accusing. In several posts, BC has claimed that Dirk has claimed scum, says that he's "clearly" acting anti-town, and makes another post where he just calls him mafia plainly. Basically, he says with complete confidence that Dirkzor is 100% scum. However, there aren't really any posts in his filter where he asks for other people to vote for Dirkzor, or challenges their choice of lynch target. So, he's not actively pushing people to lynch Dirk, which is weird considering his posts say that he knows he's scum. Next, is his change in tone after the Day 1 Dirkzor lynch failed: On August 22 2012 07:43 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On August 22 2012 04:05 Mementoss wrote:On August 22 2012 03:54 Toadesstern wrote: mementoss what's your take on Dirkzor vs Drazerk vs imallinson? Drazerk - commented more in detail before but troll bad town for now Dirkzor - the only thing suspicious about him seems to be his mess up in meta to try and make imallinson look worse than he is. I think this could be an honest mistake however. Most people voting for Dirkzor are people I don't trust, makes me uneasy. imallinson - will probably be where I'm placing my vote. I commented on it a bit before but will re-iterate. His initial posts were made to look like he contributed and actually tried drag day 1 discussion backwards. He did nothing for scum hunting and when criticized on this fact made a half ass case on SnB just to say he did. Spent most of the time defending himself which shittered up the thread and buried useful posts that were scum hunting at the time, it looks really bad in context. Also in the defence of himself he threw the heat onto dirkzor, who was an easy target because he had early heat in this game anyways. To take this further, his scum buddy who he planned this with, BC, immediately made a case onto dirkzor and got the wagon rolling. Look at the people voting for him, can you honestly say any of them look better than neutral to you?In this order: BC, imallinson, VE, mattchew, misder. I would like to hear your take on Dirkzor vs Drazerk vs imallinson additionally. ##Unvote: Mattchew ##Vote: Imallinson Well as you called me scum, and sheeped onto a now confirmed town player as well as lied in the bolded section. Guess what duder, I was putting heat and pressure on both draz + dirk before a case on allinson was EVER MADE. Now obviously thats only a minor lie, but given that I had out right said Dirk Scumclaimed well before that its still a lie. Also given how people voted. Dirk/mementoss/bumatlarge for likely reds. On August 23 2012 13:31 BloodyC0bbler wrote: regardless at this time I still feel that dirk or wiggles are better lynches then mattchew so I am voting there.
Vote: dirkzor On August 23 2012 13:37 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On August 23 2012 13:34 Drazerk wrote: Personally I'd rather kill Wiggles / Mattchew over Dirk but thats because I honestly get no vibes from the case and I hate voting on things I don't care about. Honestly the only vibes I get from mattchew are bad townie at the moment. Could that mean red? yes but i feel its less likely. I am fine with a wiggles or dirk situation with current preference to dirk only given that he has done far more to get on my radar. You at least have a reason to not want to kill dirk though which is more than most have. Now Dirkzor has gone from being 100% scum to being "likely scum". Also, his two posts addressing him today are saying that he's "fine" with a dirk lynch, or that he's a better lynch than mattchew. This is different from saying that he thinks Dirkzor is the best lynch, or the person we should for sure kill today. Notice the tentativeness compared to how he acted on Day 1. It's a complete departure from how he was treating him before, and he doesn't give a reason for such a change in his posts. Indeed, he even continues to press Dirkzor into Night 1. So, why the caution and tentativeness from him now? It's because he's sounding out the lynch. He can't just abandon Dirkzor, because of how hard he pressed him on Day 1. As well, there was an anti-Wiggles sentiment that began during Night 1, and now he's saying he'd like to lynch me possibly. However, he doesn't make a strong push one way or the other. His posts are saying that he could go either way, and that he's OK with either one of us being lynched. It's because he's trying to sound out the way town sentiment is running, and wants to leave himself outs in case he comes under opposition. He's setting himself up to keep tunneling Dirkzor without doing anything to really get him killed, while also keeping open the possibility of switching to me if it turns out that's how people want to run Day 2. Therefore: ##Vote: BloodyC0bblerI've outlined what I think of him and his play above. The guy is scum, and he's who we should be lynching today. He's trying to get by with superficial "contributions", and has been playing in a self-contradictory and hypocritical manner since he's first started posting. We need to kill him today, or else he's going to just float by as people give him a pass for doing a minimal amount of anything. + Show Spoiler [Free Bonus Content] +On August 23 2012 10:35 BloodyC0bbler wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2012 10:32 Mementoss wrote:On August 23 2012 10:24 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On August 23 2012 10:23 Mattchew wrote:On August 23 2012 10:22 Mementoss wrote:On August 23 2012 10:19 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On August 23 2012 10:17 Mattchew wrote:On August 23 2012 10:16 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On August 23 2012 10:15 Mattchew wrote:On August 23 2012 10:13 Mementoss wrote: Mattchew Heist Misder WBG
Haven't heard much from these pokemon lately. interesting, why not wiggles or dirk in that list? He excluded scum From the list obviously if you are not being sarcastic that is my thought process I still like dirk as red, and wiggles has done absolutely nothing to help town period this game. He however has managed to find time to criticize people and claim they must be red with 0 case. (see bugs' post a few pages ago on wiggles to see what I mean). But mattchew has done something to help town? :S I found SnB as town, and I am pretty sure VE is town too now. so thats pretty helpful what exactly have you done meme? other than bandwagon a townie lynch? you do realize you just claimed scum here right? I dont get it either Because he has done nothing useful (so far) to help the town in any way. To come out and say "i found blah as town and I think blah is town" is great. You know who likes finding town? or more specifically, differentiating town from third party or town from mafia? Not fucking townies. Saying your green reads is awesome, but if you don't state your red cases with actual reasons and instead just hop on wagons / spout green reads you are likely not town. On August 23 2012 10:22 BloodyC0bbler wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2012 10:18 Kurumi wrote:On August 23 2012 10:16 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On August 23 2012 10:15 Mattchew wrote:On August 23 2012 10:13 Mementoss wrote: Mattchew Heist Misder WBG
Haven't heard much from these pokemon lately. interesting, why not wiggles or dirk in that list? He excluded scum From the list obviously So you are defending all those people? KIta died , chez died , bum died ... Who is left , my dear Cobbler? All of them? no, but clear ignorance of people who should still be in the spotlight is ridiculous. Of that list only wbg to me is a town read and the other three are null's. Misder is likely scum based on similar level to his scum levels but hes also notorious for lurking period. Besides the fact that finding town helps find scum through the process of elimination and helps give people "cred", these posts by BC are another example of the terrible "contributions" he makes and why I think he's scum. He calls out Mattchew for calling people town. Mattchew says here that he thought S&B was town (who was flipped), and that he finds VE to be town. BC proceeds to flip out at him and call him scum because he lists VE as a green read. Not exactly "spout[ing] green reads", as BC puts it. Funny is that 13 minutes before that BC made a post of his own saying he has a green read on WBG, which is the same level of pointing out greens that Mattchew was guilty of. Also funny, because Mattchew has posted suspicions and reads and BC claims he has done none of that in favour of pointing out tons of greens. As well, there's another condemnation of calling people red without a case. Hilarious stuff. Set trap, bait, trap sprung. You caught a wiggles. Now wiggles whats awesome is that I was never sure if you were just being lazy, or just red. Easiest way to do that is to set out some bait to see who jumps on me. Given the death of Chez and Toad already for your team, you knew you'd have to take out one of the more well known players fast or risk being slaughtered. Thankfully I knew how to draw out some scum. You see wiggles, by forcing you to justify your earlier post by giving you the "weaker" target to jump at I knew you'd target me. You know, just like your team opted to try and drop VE day 1 and failed? This time I put myself in the shoes of the person who would be attacked as I like the spotlight. Now to start with your horrific case in which I will refute it, then toss the ball back in your scummy court. You start by saying that you only said "you believe one of my and bugs must be scum" You then say i am acting defensively, although I only barely mention you in passing, while the person who made a giant post to attack your play (which only appeared after you called two people out mind you) was ignored. Considering you so obviously cherry picked the case you would find easier to make it is obvious you would ignore the person who was obviously more "defensive". Anyone who has played with me before will recognize based on largess of posts and tone of posts on if im on the offensive or defensive. Nice try lying though. As for my reason on why I believe you are scum? I told people to look at bugs' post that he had already made on you. As you ignored that bit I will toss it in here for all to read. Show nested quote +On August 23 2012 06:02 wherebugsgo wrote:On August 23 2012 05:32 Mr. Wiggles wrote: These are my observations.
Town had absolutely no direction on Day 1, and no strong town leaders emerged.
This shows that scum weren't trying hard to seize thread control, and that scum were content with the way things were going. They didn't feel like they had to have any of their players act very pro-active and try to misdirect the town overtly. Meaning, that scum didn't feel threatened
So what does it mean that scum didn't feel threatened? It means that they didn't feel like they were in any danger of actually being killed/lynched. So, this tells us that either both major candidates were town, or that if Dirk is scum, mafia didn't think he would die.
That's pretty obvious though, as those are the only two possibilities, so here's my interpretation of the situation. There wasn't really any concrete push to kill imallinson as compared to Dirk. A lot of the people voting for them were saying they were fine with either dying, and there weren't really any large arguments comparing the merits of killing Dirk vs. imallinson. Both of the lynch trains developed in a way that was insular from the other. This means that who got lynched more or less would just come down to which wagon sheeping townies decided to hop on. This isn't a good situation for mafia because if they hope for chance it might mean that their own member gets bandwagoned to a point where they can't bring it back, or at least to a point where bringing it back puts them under a lot of suspicion. So in that situation, they would make a case for why lynching the townie was better than lynching their scum buddy to prevent the wagon from going the wrong way. But, no one did that. That implies to me that scum didn't care which person got lynched which further implies that both candidates were town.
Further supporting that, is the earlier observation that we didn't really get anything done on Day 1, no strong leaders emerged, and no direction was given. Scum are doing good just by having that happen, and it looks like they didn't feel the need to do anything else, because everything was going their way in terms of the bandwagons. They didn't have to fight for their buddy, because he wasn't up for the lynch.
In my opinion, at least one of the wagons was started by scum (BC/WBG). As well, I find it likely that the scum team split their vote between the two candidates for the most part in order to help prevent people from pointing out one of the lynches as a scum bandwagon, as well as to set themselves up as opposing each other to stop associative tells.
Right now I'm just waiting for the night to end, because kills and vig shots should hopefully clear the air a little and make things more transparent. I agree with most of this. Based on how the wagons went I don't think Dirkzor is scum. I unfortunately was not available to reverse-snowball the allinson lynch. From the looks of it I should've known he was town when so many people jumped on at once. I do disagree, however, with your assumption that one of the wagons was started by scum. #1, I'm town and that leaves BC (and I don't think he is scum ATM either). The fact that you casually push this is really disconcerting, though. You did nothing to stop either wagon and now you're seemingly trying to push blame and culpability based on weak and faulty assumptions onto myself + BC. If you legitimately thought one of us was scum then I'd expect you to actually come forth with reasons but you have simply seeded doubt. ___________________________________ I'm okay with Mattchew dying as he seems particularly lazy this game. From what I recall he doesn't like playing scum (and this was something he stressed in my games) so I think the case on him does have merit from a meta standpoint. I'm unsure what to think of Wiggles based on his last post since he seems to be making summaries that make sense, but making accusations that don't. If I die he should be watched carefully. Also if I die, newer players take note: Toad, BC, VE, bum, Kita, and Zephirdd are all also good targets to watch for in coming days as they are all capable as scum and are all harder to pin early. I would argue that if any of them seem "off their game" then they're probably scum. In particular I would rate Kita as the best scumhunter in this game, so if he's alive and somehow not dangerous to scum then he should be lynched immediately. So far he's done very little so it is certainly possible we may be going in thatdirection. Now his points on you are exactly why I believe you are scum. You see, you and I were on a mafia team once where you and I did exactly what bugs outlined in that post. Exactly to a fucking tee. You know you are caught, and you know I have already bagged another of your team and now you are running scared. Next we have you attempting to throw mud at me for wait, what? Day 1 early game posts? You know, when people were trolling and being faggots? Anyone reading would know those are my early reads based on how people are playing. If they had been solid reads backed up by more than a gut feeling you would have seen me build cases and push their lynch as I did dirkzor. You did notice I spent the majority of the day pushing one target right? Or are you opting to try and cover the fact that I have forced people into posting, pushed my best read, and even *gasp* put pressure on people for bad play. Anyone is free to look through my filter, then they can open and compare to yours. you have 13 posts as I am writing this (ignored your /in post) I have 41. I pushed my best read all day 1, I have called people out for being red. Yes I have called out many people based on random gut feelings or horrific play done by said player. Given that one of those gut reads was accurate and so far only 1 confirmed wrong I am doing fairly well. Who do you think is red wiggles? Me? Who else, lets see in all those 13 posts you You accuse myself and VE. In two game days, and all the content posted and given deaths of players and flips You have found two suspects. Yet you spend more time early on trying to link me to players like toad, make mention that you dislike my posting but rather than attempting to do anything about it you swap over to VE saying that you won't lynch grush until he answers your questions to verify his alignment basically. Yet hes back, hes been back for awhile. You know what you haven't done? What you said you were going to do. you also said this as your main argument to lynch VE Day 1 Show nested quote +On August 21 2012 16:47 Mr. Wiggles wrote:On August 21 2012 07:14 VisceraEyes wrote: If there's no support for it, then I'll entertain the cases put forth. There isn't much more to say on the matter, and anyone who dwells on this should be put under scrutiny. It's a vote like any other vote, I've given my reasoning for it - it's up to you guys to convince me that your read on random player is better than my seething hatred for grush' playstyle. I can tell you without a doubt that attempting to bully me for it is not going to work. The problem with this is that it isn't about finding scum. As a townie, you're supposed to look at all available information and decide who is most likely to be scum. You don't say, "I don't like this guy, so I'm voting him and it's up to you to convince me to kill scum instead of him". You're taking any responsibility for having to do anything on Day 1 away from yourself and putting it onto other players. I'm surprised all the people voting for All-In Tim for deferring his opinion to the judgement of others aren't on you for the same thing. ##Vote: VE Note the bolded Parts Then go back and look at the section of bugs post above that I bolded. You directly are calling out two players for two bandwagons forming (no shit typically 1-2 people start analysis on someone that gets a vote rolling) However you specify the no strong leaders emerged while you yourself have done nothing til this point to help direct the town in any way. Thus you are putting onus on myself and bugs as you state one of us must be scum while leaving out the fact that you did absolutely nothing to stop the days actions. If you didn't agree or believed this while it was going on you as town would have put a stop to it rather than "summarizing the day" You also did exactly what you called VE out for as your primary reason to vote for him. Cute that you like inconsistencies. You claim that I am pushing misdirection off one post when you made one yourself doing the same (in regards to myself and bugs) you then do the exact same thing that you called out and voted to lynch someone for yet its ok for you to be hypocritical. Anyone can compare our filters. It is fairly obvious that I am around and as things happen I post on them. Be it lengthy or not is a moot point. Spotting someones scum tells/bad plays and calling them out don't require large post by post analysis, nor do they need indepth behavioural analysis when all you do is put heat on someone for said behaviour. Given that you are misrepresenting my posts, and have waited in the shadows to cherry pick while misrepresenting my posts shows how desperate your team is at this moment. Regardless you have outed yourself as scum and will die for it either by lynch or bullet. Its now merely up to the town. Also I would like to draw everyones attention to how he analyzed me. He took an insane care to talk about my case on dirkzor as minutely as possible. Keeping in mind I have spent more time talking about that lynch of all my reads than any of the others (thus my most comfortable read). Yet he ignores my longer posts and instead concentrates on the posts that are designed to initiate dialogue or minor pressure people. Why would someone who is so sure he is correct on his read not attempt to discredit my dirk case or find flaws in those posts as to why I am red? Simple. If he was town doing a post by post method he would opt to find the faulty logic or the like from where I had most invested myself rather than random small posts. As such he is banking on people not actually re reading day 1, or even both our filters to figure out how full of shit he is. Everyone should at this point in time be lynching dirkzor or mrwiggles Both will bleed red. A lot of BC's case was based on how Wiggles responded to BC's "trap." There's some "we've been scum together and this is how you acted then," a lot of BC-specific reasoning. So, at least for me, when I read over BC's case, it doesn't speak to me quite as strongly as it would to him, because it's based on his own experience that we don't have.
AMG BUT BC WUZ SHOT!1!!1!!! Nobody cares. Maybe he was shot by town. Maybe by scum. It doesn't matter. Town shoots him because they think he's scum, scum shoot him because he's got good reads, scum shoot him to make Wiggles/Dirkzor look bad, there are enough explanations that the shot doesn't matter.
What DOES matter is that BC was town, and BC had a big ol' scumread on Wiggles. I haven't played with BC, but I'll trust Kenpachi on things like - + Show Spoiler +On August 23 2012 17:08 Kenpachi wrote: you cant beat a town bc. hes a monster On August 24 2012 09:12 Kenpachi wrote: uh.. i trust BC. im sorry but when he gets it going, hes probably the best player in the game. - So we've got a townie that generally plays a really solid town game making a case on Wiggles based on his own knowledge.
Mr.Wiggles' play this game There's not much to it. Light mentions of Grush, a few silly moments like his pokemon theme song. Two things that stick out to me are: - Not a ton of contributions. That alone isn't scummy, but keep it in mind. Small filter, most of it is responding to BC's case and calling out BC.
- Some ... silliness? Pokemon theme song, the bit on Chezinu being scummy - + Show Spoiler +
On August 20 2012 14:21 Mr. Wiggles wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2012 13:51 Chezinu wrote:On August 20 2012 09:08 Drazerk wrote: Analysing how people join the thread is probably the most interesting part of the game Your right... Look what I discovered: On August 17 2012 15:06 wherebugsgo wrote: /in On August 17 2012 15:06 Mr. Wiggles wrote: /in They joined the g ame at the exact same time. The must be Mafia!Rocket peoples! You dastardly fiend, you've discovered the secret to my plan! But, you didn't count on one thing: You're also a member of Rocket People! You're our sleeper agent. You know it too. That's why you're subconsciously claiming scum. On August 24 2012 10:10 Mr. Wiggles wrote:I'm town. I even wrote a song for you about it. + Show Spoiler +I wanna be the very best, Like no one ever was! To catch them is my real test, To lynch them is my cause!
I will read my way through the thread, Searching far and wide Each mafia to understand The scummy that's inside!
Mafia, it's you and me! I know it's my destiny! Mafia, oh, you're my best friend In our town we must defend! Mafia, a heart so true! Analysis will pull us through!
You're scummy and I'll lynch you, Mafia, gotta lynch 'em all! - Silliness alone isn't super duper scummy. But this is one reason the lack of activity/small filter concerns me. In a vacuum, maybe he's busy. But if he's putting the effort into this game and writing parody theme songs, playing with chezinu, then where is that effort in his other play? - It's nowhere! Look at hi D1. Doesn't want to vote Grush or push him hard. Votes VE, then disappears. Doesn't try to get more votes, doesn't mention VE later. The vast majority of his play is responding to BC's case and fighting with BC. So we know he's putting effort into silliness, effort into responding to BC, effort into chiding town for how D1 played out + Show Spoiler +
On August 23 2012 05:32 Mr. Wiggles wrote: These are my observations.
Town had absolutely no direction on Day 1, and no strong town leaders emerged.
This shows that scum weren't trying hard to seize thread control, and that scum were content with the way things were going. They didn't feel like they had to have any of their players act very pro-active and try to misdirect the town overtly. Meaning, that scum didn't feel threatened
So what does it mean that scum didn't feel threatened? It means that they didn't feel like they were in any danger of actually being killed/lynched. So, this tells us that either both major candidates were town, or that if Dirk is scum, mafia didn't think he would die.
That's pretty obvious though, as those are the only two possibilities, so here's my interpretation of the situation. There wasn't really any concrete push to kill imallinson as compared to Dirk. A lot of the people voting for them were saying they were fine with either dying, and there weren't really any large arguments comparing the merits of killing Dirk vs. imallinson. Both of the lynch trains developed in a way that was insular from the other. This means that who got lynched more or less would just come down to which wagon sheeping townies decided to hop on. This isn't a good situation for mafia because if they hope for chance it might mean that their own member gets bandwagoned to a point where they can't bring it back, or at least to a point where bringing it back puts them under a lot of suspicion. So in that situation, they would make a case for why lynching the townie was better than lynching their scum buddy to prevent the wagon from going the wrong way. But, no one did that. That implies to me that scum didn't care which person got lynched which further implies that both candidates were town.
Further supporting that, is the earlier observation that we didn't really get anything done on Day 1, no strong leaders emerged, and no direction was given. Scum are doing good just by having that happen, and it looks like they didn't feel the need to do anything else, because everything was going their way in terms of the bandwagons. They didn't have to fight for their buddy, because he wasn't up for the lynch.
In my opinion, at least one of the wagons was started by scum (BC/WBG). As well, I find it likely that the scum team split their vote between the two candidates for the most part in order to help prevent people from pointing out one of the lynches as a scum bandwagon, as well as to set themselves up as opposing each other to stop associative tells.
Right now I'm just waiting for the night to end, because kills and vig shots should hopefully clear the air a little and make things more transparent. , and . . . that's it. - His play this game reminds me somewhat of his scum play in LV - here. Wiggles was GF, we elected him mayor, and he just sort of sat back all game. It was noticeable there because he was inactive yet voted mayor, but this game feels similar. He pops in N1 to chide town for day play. He pops in late D2 to talk about misder and hopeless. But there's just not much to hold him accountable for. His only strong read was BC, and BC is now dead. In LV, he made a lot of small/medium-size accusations of players, either picking off problematic town players or focusing on low-trust townies. This game? Some focus on problematic town players (BC) and also the focus on low-trust townies (mentions of Grush, posts on Hopeless). So (1) BC felt like Wiggles was scum because of his past scum play, but I wasn't in those games. (2) I feel like Wiggles is scum because of his past scum play, from a different game than BC was drawing from.
tl;dr - BC thought Wiggles was scum. BC was town. BC is apparently a very good town player. Wiggles has not been helpful this game, and his only period of activity was him sparring with BC. Wiggles' play feels similar to his scum play in LV, never at the forefront, picking off strong townies or weak townies, no focus in the middle. Wiggles has put effort into parodying the pokemon theme song and effort into defending himself from BC, but no real effort into the rest of the game.
I'll try and get more thoughts out today. Right now, I'm still not loving Misder's play. I'm mildly concerned about HiroPro, but need to look into that further. Filter is a lot of one-liners, some sheeping/questions, nothing really proactive. I don't like that I'm saying this, but got feeling is that...I might agree with Grush on BioSC. Not entirely sure there yet. Almost 100% convinced that Mementoss is town based on one thing he said, and I seem to have good luck when I get that feeling.
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Been assuming Grush is either a DT or some kind of assassin role with a check. Although it's entirely possible that he's just dicking around.
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Housekeeping. Shot/Kill flavors
+ Show Spoiler +On August 22 2012 01:55 GreYMisT wrote: Meowth used payday on VisceraEyes!
Ouch that hurt!
(colors are not reflective of alignment) On August 23 2012 06:18 GreYMisT wrote: Bumatlarge, the Voltorb and Chezinu, the Gastly fainted due to psychic damage!
StrongandBig, The Charmander became confused! He Fried himself in his confusion! StrongandBig fainted!
Kitaman27, The Clefairy was captured by Team Rocket!
Toadestern, as Giovanni with a Meowth met a shocking end On August 23 2012 20:19 deconduo wrote: BloodyC0bbler has been incinerated. On August 26 2012 06:14 deconduo wrote: Heist, the Koffing, has been electrocuted. Wherebugsgo, the MewTwo/Mr. Mime, got too much sun. We know that the amount of scum KP is hidden. Out of the flavors we've seen, I would think "captured by Team Rocket" is the mafia factional kill. If that's the case, then mafia's KP was disrupted last night.
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On August 27 2012 05:06 Mr. Wiggles wrote: I split this up for the people who don't like to read and think anything longer than 5 lines is massive, so a shout-out to you!
Here's the first challenge. Someone has to explain why being inactive is a sign of being scum. They also have to explain why not being invested in the game or not caring is a sign of being scum. Anyone who mistakes active lurking for inactivity loses the game. Please speak in general terms and not in terms of specific players, since I've seen this applied over and over again with terrible results.
Go! To the extent that you're saying that inactivity isn't necessarily scummy, you're correct and I agree with you.
At this point though, not all your votes are due to a generic "inactivity = scummy" rule. Some may be, and some may be pure sheep votes.
BC mentioned that specific to you, the way you're playing this game was similar to your scumplay in past games. I know that, to me, the way you're playing this game feels similar to your scumplay in LV. At least some of the accusations in general are not an indictment of inactivity in general, but specific to your play.
While you want someone to defend that heuristic "in general terms and not in terms of specific players," not everyone is indicting you in general terms. Moreover, if the accusation is no good when put in general terms, how is your counterargument, which seems to be I've seen this applied over and over again with terrible results a good counter? If you don't like the general rule because it's not specific, don't give a general defense. Plenty of inactive players have flipped town, but that doesn't somehow negate the fact that inactive players can also flip scum.
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First off, can the person who created the role for Magnemite please confirm that Supersonic confuses the target and redirects its action to a random pokemon? Specifically the "confuse" portion of that.
Role/Ability Claims Zephirdd (Unknown pokemon, "medic" role) - + Show Spoiler +On August 20 2012 08:28 Zephirdd wrote: How about the "lynch whoever throws KP around randomly"?
Also I am a medic. Go figure. I'm still a medic and I'll still protect someone tonight, don't worry. Also, I may have claimed medic because I knew the strategy would be spoiled so scum would never shoot me WHAT NOW SCUM HUH COME ON SHOOT ME ohwait you will not WIFOMWIFOWMIFOM TAKE IT SCUM anyway
and possibly Pretty sure our bulletproof medic protected someone who evolved. Kurumi (Caterpie/Metapod, unknown power) - + Show Spoiler +On August 20 2012 07:49 Kurumi wrote: Also my role could singlehandedly imbalance game in someone's favour just fyi My role is maybe two tiers above Oracle I have only one power this sucks I am Butterfly and I can roleblock people and remove their resistances in one action. I am an useless role for town. My power is pure scum power. If I was a Framer with cancel resistance my power would be on par with Oracle. Maybe I will be able to roleblock a dangerous individual. I am not a vig , dt or medic for fucks sake , I am a roleblocker cancelling resistances. Nah I lied about my role to help Drazerk Also I am Caterpie. Sue me. I am braindead so I forgot that Draz made my role and I am the laser guy lol Drazerk (Unknown bug type, can use "sunny day") - + Show Spoiler +I'm a bug type so fire / flying / rock types - Bring it Concerning the power he created, presumably Kurumi's Claiming who you made the role for OR what your role is will result in you being turned into a VT - This is multi target infinite use with no drawbacks (ok one minor drawback but lol who cares about that when you have an unstoppable VT laser(They will never know about it even though it is in effect right now))
It took a lot of arguments to get this role into the game but there is only one way around the power that I can't divulge but should be obvious if it is triggered however those already effected won't be able to do anything about it sadly
##Sunny Day
Fire damage now does 0.5kp more damage which shouldn't be too bad when you consider we just killed 1 of 3 fire pokemon in the first generation
Water damage now does 0.5kp LESS which should reduce over all KP considering just how many water pokemon there is in every generation (so many water pokemon) and put a lot more focus on the lynches rather than all the crazy powers. Grush (Unknown pokemon, vengeful role(?)) - + Show Spoiler +Oh yea vigis hit me see what happens ;D No, do it, I dare you. Regardless if my abilities are true, scum thinks I'm screwing with town and won't shoot me unless all the people left in the thread are scum which wouldn't suprise me, and town vigis, I hope you realize there are much better targets than me, I would suggest Biosc. Mattchew (Pikachu, vig role) - + Show Spoiler +i am pikachu, a blue pokemon, who can do .5 kp of damage every night JingleHell (Magnemite, has "Supersonic" which can redirect abilities) - + Show Spoiler +By the way, if Mattchew used his KP, it didn't land on target, since he was confused, courtesy of yours truly, Magnemite. In fact, reading the flavor text, it may have inadvertently been the cause of death of Toad, going by the "shocking end" bit. I cause an ability to hit a random target. I'm not entirely sure why the flavor is different than that of a confused Pokemon hitting themselves, though. Supersonic. Confusion that makes it hit the wrong target. Random target, as determined by host. I'm guessing that's what toasted Toad, the Giovanni with a Meowth.
Everyone else alive is unclaimed, as far as I could tell.
Extra Stuff
Shot/kill flavors: + Show Spoiler +On August 26 2012 07:50 austinmcc wrote:Housekeeping. Shot/Kill flavors + Show Spoiler +On August 22 2012 01:55 GreYMisT wrote: Meowth used payday on VisceraEyes!
Ouch that hurt!
(colors are not reflective of alignment) On August 23 2012 06:18 GreYMisT wrote: Bumatlarge, the Voltorb and Chezinu, the Gastly fainted due to psychic damage!
StrongandBig, The Charmander became confused! He Fried himself in his confusion! StrongandBig fainted!
Kitaman27, The Clefairy was captured by Team Rocket!
Toadestern, as Giovanni with a Meowth met a shocking end On August 23 2012 20:19 deconduo wrote: BloodyC0bbler has been incinerated. On August 26 2012 06:14 deconduo wrote: Heist, the Koffing, has been electrocuted. Wherebugsgo, the MewTwo/Mr. Mime, got too much sun. We know that the amount of scum KP is hidden. Out of the flavors we've seen, I would think "captured by Team Rocket" is the mafia factional kill. If that's the case, then mafia's KP was disrupted last night. Evolutions: + Show Spoiler +On August 23 2012 06:18 deconduo wrote: Magikarp has evolved into Gyrados Bulbasaur has evolved into Ivysaur On August 26 2012 06:14 deconduo wrote: Caterpie has evolved into Metapod Dratini has evolved into Dragonair
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On August 28 2012 03:46 HiroPro wrote: austin, what do you think of VE? I caught the first couple days secondhand, so some of the timing may be missing, but:
- I got a townie feel from the start of his D1 play. Seems to be playing the game, responding to votes on him, making some dumb comments, asking some good questions. The grush stuff was meh, but not necessarily scummy meh.
- His case on zephirdd doesn't super-convince me, but doesn't feel forced.
- Concerning his claim of taking a shot, there was initially some thought that him saying it wasn't effective helped us deduce his type. I don't think it does...yet. None of the flips have included effectiveness modifiers, so perhaps we don't get to see them? If anyone HAS seen effectiveness attached to KP, they should speak up, because it might point to VE's type.
- The dropoff in activity concerns me, especially because he was active early. Prolonged swings in activity (not explainable by work/night out/etc.) do worry me.
I'm still much more convinced about Wiggles atm. I remember almost being convinced by Wiggles's defense in LV, and so haven't been fully responding to him in this game. I did go back and look at some past games, draw some conclusions, but right now I think there's enough to lynch him without having to derail the thread going back and forth with more in-depth analysis than is out there. I think BC's case was alright, I know BC was town, I am trusting that BC is a good townie, and I have my own suspicions.
If Wiggles flips red, then VE looks a little more interesting to me. Could see D1 being Toad/Wiggles distancing themselves from VE (Toad and VE at odds, Wiggles votes VE and left his vote on VE). Toad dying N1 unexpectedly (if we assume pikachu kp + redidrection from supersonic) sort of lessens the value of that plan. The dropoff in activity COULD be because they were active to set up that distancing, then had the scheme ruined with Toad's death and so no longer needed to be active in order to plant that idea in people's heads.
So right now, I'm not worried. If Wiggles flips red, I'll be a little more worried, but a Toad/VE/Chez/Wiggles scumteam seems a little stacked. That's another reason I'm not liking VE for scum, because it certainly seems like SOMEONE out of heist/misder/BioSC/hiropro (yes, you're included there for me) should be scummy, and then that'd most likely be the full team (although there could still be more third parties).
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On August 28 2012 04:09 Mementoss wrote: I already confirmed it in the thread. I just want to double-super-mega confirm that "confuse" is a part of this thing. If the kill flavors are an indicator, then we need to nail down what actually causes confusion and what just redirects stuff.
On August 28 2012 04:32 HiroPro wrote: what is this crap. are you seriously fucking trying to figure out a scum team based on balance. Eh, not at the moment?
You can read my thoughts on Wiggles. None of that rests on balance. But once we've flipped another scum or two, balance MAY color my thoughts.
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For those NOT voting Wiggles, do you find him townie this game? Did you previously find him scummy but then find his defense compelling? Did you mean to vote him but misspell his name?
If you fall into the second category, imagine a different game. A game in which Wiggles is just sort of in the background, looks mildly scummy to most people but has never been far away the leading lynch candidate. Now imagine Wiggles becomes the lynch candidate and starts getting pushed. Now imagine he posts this defense - + Show Spoiler +On June 12 2012 12:45 Mr. Wiggles wrote:The Spirited Defense Of One Mr. Wiggles, Mayor of Liquidia Show nested quote +On June 11 2012 08:48 Toadesstern wrote: Here's why Wiggles is mafia and Kenpachi (proably) is not:
Mafia gets to choose who gets what role: Do you think mafia would give the GF role to some random noob? No they'd give it to Wiggles / Kenpachi. Now keep that in mind. They know Wiggles is going to get GF. Perfect scenario for him to run for mayor as mafia. He should have been shot loooong ago if he's really town but whatever, maybe mafia just didn't shoot him because people thought he might be town. Anyways if I were mafia I'd 100% make my vet in the team run for mayor as GF. If he's not shot people will DT him and see he's green and therefore okay. Perfect scenario for mafia. This doesn't do anything to point out that I'm scum. I'm town, so that's why I show up green to checks, if you believe I'm a GF, I can't argue against it except on behavioural and logical grounds. The thing is, what you think of me colors the check. If I turn up green, I'm a GF, if I turn up red, you'd just say I was scum (even though it means I'm framed). Also the thing about the check is that it relies on the supposition that scum have a GF in the first place. There's absolutely no assurance of that. From what Grey has said, it seems like scum got a list of roles and got to distribute them themselves. So, the entirety of my check being wrong is based on the chance scum have a GF. Personally, I find it a lot more likely that scum got a role-cop, to counter the large amount of blues in the game, and it also helps explain how scum managed to snipe both BH and supersoft on Night 2. I find it pretty unlikely that that happened purely by chance, so it suggests to me that scum have a role cop. Also, mafia haven't shot me because I've been under suspicion since Night 1, been relatively inactive, and because I'm a prime mislynch target as we move towards the end of the game. If I'm scum, town automatically loses in a late-game scenario where me and any hypothetical team-mates can just outvote the town and cause a no-lynch. Scum know this, and town know it, so everyone's going to be really skittish as we go to the end. The thing is though, in a lot of cases, we lose if we mislynch. So, scum aren't going to shoot me now, unless I somehow manage to convince everyone in the game I'm town beyond a shadow of a doubt. The problem is that probably won't happen, or scum will just keep trying to call me scum (See: Hyaach, Papapanda, Kenpachi), to try to get you to mislynch me so that they'll win. They're hoping town get so scared they'll just lynch me on the chance I could be scum, and then we lose. Show nested quote +Wiggles does nothing:Check Wiggles filter and point me to something that gave you the feeling Wiggles is actually helping town. I can't find a single moment like that with the exception of the Maju vote but we'll take about that later. Yeah Kenpachi is the same but Kenpachi is always useless, no matter of alignment. Wiggles usually ends up being helpful as town and he's just not this game. What happened d1:We basicly had 2 options for a d1 lynch imo: Zealos and Kita. Zealos would have been the cowards way that would have ended up being right and Kita would have been the balls-of-steel way that would have ended up with town loosing a vet and a medic but noone knew about the medic at that point in time. What did Wiggles do? He basicly policy lynched a noob. Noone had a read on Sinenesis that was anything more that "that guy's a noob". Nothing, and that lynch was horribad. The most useless lynch I've ever seen. True-random-chance to hit mafia combined with 0 information town can get. I would consider lynching Kita d1 ( with the information that he's a medic!) a better lynch than this guy. Lynching Sinensis was the best move you can make from a mafia point of view. You leave town shattered in pieces asking each other "gawd, what a noob, what happened?" without giving them ANY information and at the same time it's literally the SAFEST lynch ever if you are scared. Why am I talking about a safe lynch? Picture Wiggles lynching Kita. What would have happened? People would run wild and accuse Wiggles for mislynching a vet on d1. So there's a nother reason why Sinensis was the perfect mafia lynch.Now you could be here standing: Well Toad that's all nifty and nice but that could just be really bad luck. I'd tell you something along the lines of Yeah, that's really convenient, isn't it and argue along with my next couple of posts why that's not an option. But if you're reading this I'm probably dead so I have to get everything in here This is a flat out lie. The only push for Zealos was made by about 4 people close to the deadline, and any support for Kitaman was scattered at best. You keep overstating the sentiment of people wanting to kill them, because you were the person pushing Kita, and you were pretty buddied with the people pushing zealos (Forumite and supersoft). Go back and read the thread though, that wasn't the general feeling. I clearly stated I would lynch Sinensis, and people supported it both in thread, and with their votes for me. If no one supported a sinensis lynch and they all wanted a zealos lynch they would have voted for forumite. You're confusing what the best lynch for the day was with who you wanted to lynch. Also, I was already running for mayor. I had purposefully attracted attention to myself by running and then winning. As scum, why wouldn't I take the chance to kill off someone who could turn out to be a very strong town player before they had the chance to do anything? I would just have to weasel my way out of the lynch the next day. As town, I didn't want to just blow up a town vet because one person felt like it, or kill zealos with little discussion and no consensus when I'd already made my decision and stated it. Those would have both been rash and bad decisions. Show nested quote +Check the vote patterns and Wiggles actions:Especially the one were Manason got lynched. You remember me that night? I tried to get people off Mana and vote Maju instead because everyone who was considered to be mafia in my spreadsheet was voting Manason. Wiggles did nothing until something like 3 hours prior to the deadline. There's two important points here: 1) He started doing so REALLY LATE. We had something like 9 votes on mana and we needed 8. Don't know if it's really those numbers but it wa barely a majority. Now take that into account and consider Wiggles pushing Maju at that point of time. He could have EASILY helped pushing Maju early but he choose not to. Why? Because we had the slightest majority ever and he knew it would make him look good while knowing townies are probably to scared to get off Manason due to the fear of a No-Lynch with so little time left and couple of europeans probably already asleep. 2) Marv and ET both said they wanted to lynch Mana instead of Maju. That means Wiggles knew that we're already 2 townies short and even if townies would not be scared of the soon to be deadline it would not work out anyways because both Marv and ET both said they don't want to get off Mana at all. Example: On June 07 2012 02:36 EchelonTee wrote: what in the balls is happening? toad you want to switch lynch off manason? and well, Marv was the dude who did the case so obviously he's convinced that Manason is the better lynch as well. So really, Wiggles voting Maju instead of Mana is not alignment indicating AT ALL. If he take the "knowledge" into account that he can just tell his mafia buddies to lurk until deadline and not get back in here AND both ET and Marv not willing to vote Maju that's not a tell at all. From that point of view it is the easiest way to get towncred because he knew all along a switch is not going to happen. Now if you take the really bad timing of his posts as well that now looks like a nultell combined with a mafia agenda because clearly it was AGAIN the best move possible for a mafia. Remember what I said about the lynch earlier? Yeah another point that seems to be really bad luck for wiggles, or just plain and simple mafia agenda Again, this is not factually correct. I didn't wait until the deadline to try to do something about the lynch, that's just when I got a chance to post that day. Yes, it was close to the deadline, and that made it less likely to work. However, if you look at the voting thread and the main thread at that time, there were definitely enough people around to change the vote. + Show Spoiler [Votes] +On June 07 2012 05:12 Meapak_Ziphh wrote: ##Vote: MajuGarzett On June 07 2012 07:30 kitaman27 wrote: ##Vote Manason On June 07 2012 07:20 austinmcc wrote: ##Unvote ##Vote: Manason On June 07 2012 07:10 Probulous wrote: ##Vote Manason
From phone These were four people who all voted after I did. You also said you wanted to kill Maju, manason had his vote on him, and I voted him as well. There were also other people around who were posting, but didn't make votes as well. It took 8 to lynch that day, only counting our three votes and the people who voted in the voting thread, we would have had exactly 8 votes. So no, the maju lynch wasn't impossible to make happen, people just idiotically lynched manason by mistaking bad play for scummy play. The case on him was thin and basically came down to he was posting so badly he had to be scum. However, there's no way scum, especially in their first game, would say any of the things he was. The lynch was stupid, because it was just piling on to an easy target whereas maju was actually a player who had a scummy agenda and posting behaviour. Do you really think that no one in the entire game could possibly think manason was town unless they were scum and had extra knowledge? He was a bad lynch because he was an easy lynch, and his posting oozed that he was inexperienced and had no clue what he was doing. I pointed that all out, but people were either to stubborn or deaf to listen. However, to say that the lynch couldn't have happened is a lie. There were more than enough people to get him lynched, but no one wanted to change their vote or vote with me. Also, it wasn't a mafia agenda because I didn't try to take cred for it. I didn't make a post yelling at the whole town and calling them bad, or that I was the greatest because I was the only one who defended the townie, I did nothing after he was lynched but help kill Maju the next day. If I were scum, why wouldn't I try to capitalize that I just was the only person to defend the mislynch? In fact, I haven't disowned any of the things I've done in this game, and I haven't tried to take extra credit for any of the things I've done either. That's because I don't care about cred. People can judge me based on what I do, not on how much I can hype myself up for what I did right, or avoid responsibility for what I did wrong. Show nested quote +Keeping Wiggles accountableThis is just a bonus for the lulz. Remember his mayoral campaing? I said that shit is on the surface the most good looking stuff I've ever seen while not saying A THING, just like ET's campaing but ET's not Wiggles. Wiggles should know better than that. And yeah that's why both gave me a bad feeling d1. Some highlights: On May 27 2012 18:22 Mr. Wiggles wrote: So, I'm going to start off by saying that I'm running for Leader/Vice-Leader. I'd prefer if I can hit the vice-leader spot out of the two, and I'll explain why further on. On May 27 2012 18:22 Mr. Wiggles wrote: I'm not going to go too deep into my past performance since I've always felt it's a waste of time and doesn't really say anything This is what I'm talking about when saying stuff that looks good but is literally nothing. This phrase looks incredible nice and is an attempt to get peoples trust. It's basicly: "see I'm not even going to try and influence you guys by posting my recent results!" which is incredible manipulative. If he's town he doesn't need to post like that. He could have just left it out, because again, the fact that he's not telling us his recent results has no purpose other than telling us that. On May 27 2012 18:22 Mr. Wiggles wrote: It doesn't matter what you've done in past games, it matters what you're doing in this game. But, for those who really want it, I'm a decent enough scum-hunter, I'm town, and I hope I'll be able to demonstrate those to you and get elected. We should take him accountable on this one. Not for the sake of taking someone accountable because that can ruin games in lylo / mylo but he has NOT proven a thing in this game. He did nothing. Furthemore he just told us he won't talk about recent games but goes on telling us how good he is. That's not a bad sign. I did the same telling you guys I'm awesome in rainbow colors. But I didn't tell you guys I'm not going to earlier looking as manipulative as you can get. On May 27 2012 18:22 Mr. Wiggles wrote: I don't have a kill target right now, but if I'm in line to be elected leader, I will let the town know what I'm thinking with some advance notice, so as not to surprise anyone with my choice for the lynch. I'm going to play out Day 1 as normal, and as soon as I develop a decent scum read, I'll let the town know, and we can discuss it. In the end, I'm hoping we can base the game around actual discussion of scum targets instead of the trend I've seen lately of someone making a case, no one commenting on it, and then people just calling others scum with no reasoning to back it up. If you want to lynch someone, I expect you to actually come up with reasons why it's best to do so, and not just blatant sheeping. As well, if you disagree with a lynch, actually speak up. I don't even care if you're wrong, because the point of discussion is to discard the bad or wrong ideas and move forward with the good ones. Again, this is total nothingness. On May 27 2012 18:22 Mr. Wiggles wrote: However, like I said at the beginning of my post, I'd prefer to actually be elected to the position of vice-leader, since I believe that position can be abused much more by scum being elected to it, and has the potential to generate a ton of confusion. I also don't even trust most townies to it, since lots of people will misuse the role and cause as much confusion as if scum had it. Being manipulative again. On May 27 2012 18:22 Mr. Wiggles wrote: I'm planning to play the same regardless of which position you put me in, or if you elect me at all. However, I believe I can use the Leader position effectively, but would prefer to be able to safekeep the position of Vice-leader, to keep it away from not only scum, but also compulsive townies. I'd like it if you vote for me, but you should also consider a second person you would like to be elected along with me, since for whichever role, we still need to have either a vice-leader or leader to go along with it. Come on, everyone knows that themselves... So this whole thing is based on nothingness, which is not a surprise because it's d1 and his first post. But he's trying to make it look really really good when there's no need to be that manipulative at all. Also he wants to go for pardoner instead of mayor. Also all those phrases that look good but really aren't are involved: "Doing what town wants to do rather than doing a rambo" (not what he said but something along those lines) and stuff like that. It's the same ET said and people considered to be pro-town when he said he'll lynch who town considers to be the best lynch. That's the cowards way out and already planting the excuse "Sry guys I did what you wanted to" instead of just lynching who he THOUGHT to be most likely mafia. But it sounds really good because people like hearing the guy with power is doing what we want him to do instead of doing what he wants to do because it sounds good although it really isn't. Wow, you really don't understand the point of campaigns, do you? I'm not being manipulative, I'm trying to convince people to vote for me. That's how elections work, and that's what campaigns are for. The entire purpose of that post was to establish myself as a candidate, and hopefully draw support to my candidacy. If you think that's manipulative in a malicious way, then we have pretty different conceptions of what malice is. Also again, you're not even reading what's being written, and are just making things up. You even quoted yourself where I said how I'd lynch people. Show nested quote +I don't have a kill target right now, but if I'm in line to be elected leader, I will let the town know what I'm thinking with some advance notice, so as not to surprise anyone with my choice for the lynch. I'm going to play out Day 1 as normal, and as soon as I develop a decent scum read, I'll let the town know, and we can discuss it. In the end, I'm hoping we can base the game around actual discussion of scum targets instead of the trend I've seen lately of someone making a case, no one commenting on it, and then people just calling others scum with no reasoning to back it up. If you want to lynch someone, I expect you to actually come up with reasons why it's best to do so, and not just blatant sheeping. As well, if you disagree with a lynch, actually speak up. I don't even care if you're wrong, because the point of discussion is to discard the bad or wrong ideas and move forward with the good ones. Where in this does it say I'll lynch exactly how the town wants to lynch? All I said is that I'll give advance notice of who I want to kill, and that I'd like to discuss targets. How do you get that I'll just sheep the town's reads from that? Also, you're contradicting yourself! You say here that I'm just going to sheep who the town wants to lynch, when I said no such thing, and then when you're talking about the Sinensis lynch, you said that I went against the town and lynched someone that according to you no one had a scum read on instead of zealos or kita who, again according to you, everyone thought was scum and wanted to kill. So, which one is it? Am I a sheep who just did what the town wanted on Day 1, or am I a scum rebel who killed someone useless and went against what everyone wanted to do? Again, I haven't tried to shrug off responsibility. I still stand by lynching Sinensis. I'm not going to say it was a bad choice, because it wasn't. If you disagree, fine, but that's why you didn't vote for me. I never said that I lynched him because that's what people wanted me to do. In fact, I've said near the opposite. I lynched him because people agree with my choice and voted for me. I led the charge, and I was the one who in the end was responsible for pulling the trigger. I still think I made the right choice though, and it was my voters who supported me, not myself who sheeped them. So, Toad's case is wrong. It's also not that great because it flat out refuses to look at what happened in the thread, and it's self-contradictory. I put a lot of effort into this defense, because a mislynch now will almost assure our loss, and I don't want that to happen. Hopefully I'll be able to get you to see that I'm not scum before you actually kill me.
Would that defense have convinced you? If so, that doesn't mean Wiggles is scum this game. But it does mean that scum Wiggles is good enough that he can write a solid and convincing defense of himself, because he flipped gf in that game. I agree that his calm, light defense of himself is relatively convincing, but I know that scum Wiggles can pull that off.
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On August 28 2012 05:14 Mr. Wiggles wrote:Hey austin, do you want to be a good townie and make a decent case for once? Show nested quote +On August 27 2012 08:55 Mr. Wiggles wrote:On August 27 2012 05:30 austinmcc wrote:On August 27 2012 05:06 Mr. Wiggles wrote: I split this up for the people who don't like to read and think anything longer than 5 lines is massive, so a shout-out to you!
Here's the first challenge. Someone has to explain why being inactive is a sign of being scum. They also have to explain why not being invested in the game or not caring is a sign of being scum. Anyone who mistakes active lurking for inactivity loses the game. Please speak in general terms and not in terms of specific players, since I've seen this applied over and over again with terrible results.
Go! To the extent that you're saying that inactivity isn't necessarily scummy, you're correct and I agree with you. At this point though, not all your votes are due to a generic "inactivity = scummy" rule. Some may be, and some may be pure sheep votes. BC mentioned that specific to you, the way you're playing this game was similar to your scumplay in past games. I know that, to me, the way you're playing this game feels similar to your scumplay in LV. At least some of the accusations in general are not an indictment of inactivity in general, but specific to your play. While you want someone to defend that heuristic "in general terms and not in terms of specific players," not everyone is indicting you in general terms. Moreover, if the accusation is no good when put in general terms, how is your counterargument, which seems to be I've seen this applied over and over again with terrible results a good counter? If you don't like the general rule because it's not specific, don't give a general defense. Plenty of inactive players have flipped town, but that doesn't somehow negate the fact that inactive players can also flip scum. Ok, cool, we've established that using activity as the reason to call someone scum is silly. I propose we start policy lynching for it in future games. Just one point about your last sentence though, is that I'm not saying all inactive players are town, I'm saying that general activity isn't and shouldn't be used as, an indicator of alignment. Moving on. Let's talk about meta now that you've brought it up. Here's the second challenge. Describe my scum play from LV, including appropriate motivations for it, as well as the general state of the game as my play existed in it. Next, describe the state of this game, and how my play resembles my play when I was scum, including similar motivations. So far, the people trying to apply meta to me (including BC) have yet to provide an adequate explanation of my play in previous games as scum, and how it is similar to this game. Simply stating something does not make it so, and if you wish to use meta, you should take the time to explain yourself and demonstrate how it applies. Simply saying that someone's play reminds you of their play in another game when they were scum isn't enough to make an accusation based on meta. Doing so is the same misuse of meta that causes some people to believe that meta is useless or even detrimental in scum hunting. Meta is very useful, but only if you can substantiate it and adequately explain it. Please answer the fucking question. You're using meta as the largest basis for your case, so please explain the meta, or are you just lying through your teeth? I'm voting for you. I'm pushing for you. And I've made terrible cases in the past. But I've also made some good ones.
For right now though, I'm not going to post a big ol' meta analysis on you. If you don't get lynched, I may. But I respect your ability to defend yourself and distance yourself from teammates (Rereading LV made me notice how well you'd done that early), and for now I'm more inclined to find you scummy and see what you do on your own, rather than being the first mover and setting you up to respond.
If you're 100% intent on having a miniature proper-use-of-meta debate, it can happen postgame or in the general thread. But I picture it gumming up discussion here.
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On August 29 2012 01:48 Drazerk wrote:Show nested quote +On August 29 2012 01:44 Dirkzor wrote: Draz I have no clue what you are talking about. I've never played that much pokemon so care to explain it in full? If you trade pokemon you need badges for them to obey you - all the pokemon I listed are traded pokemon Was this a first generation rule? I rememeber a few evolutions were only possible after trades, but nothing about badges.
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Jingle, for what it's worth, I'm really not finding mementoss scummy. I'm okay with you not claiming your targets though, in light of the situation we're in. We know that Mattchew says he shot at dirk last night. We know that dirk is not dead. We don't know whether this is due to supersonic, a roleblock ability, a defensive ability used on dirkzor, or just generic effectiveness (Even if pikachu gets a .5 kp boost, doing 1 kp, if he fires at certain types it wouldn't be fatal).
However, scum ALSO don't know what happened to their shot last night, assuming that it missed (which I still believe). Both sides are missing some information, and unless we're really going to get something out of knowing who was supersoniced last night, I don't think it needs claiming.
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On August 29 2012 03:30 Dirkzor wrote: Just to be sure I'm not the idiot here: Mementoss or austin what is your take on the little run in I had with JH the last 2 pages? Dirk, I don't make much of it.
The entire thing starts from what is, in my mind, a misunderstanding? We have Mattchew's N1 shot allegedly getting redirected due to supersonic. Mattchew claims a shot on you N2. We currently DO NOT KNOW the result of that shot. Again. It might have been roleblocked. Might have been ineffective. You might have had protection. etc. etc. etc. So, to me, the entire thing spawns out of some nonsense about whether Kurumi got shot or not (+ Show Spoiler +On August 29 2012 01:20 Dirkzor wrote: Then that doesn't exlpain jack does it? Matt didn't target Kurumi and Jingle said (correct me if I'm wrong to lazy to look it up) that he did not use confusion on mattchew one of the nights...
Also my target was also screwed over without kurumi being in the mix... ), which has no real support based on the actions we've seen.
I think that got twisted up and you both just got snippy at each other over it. Reading over it, there's no real accusations or dispute on EITHER side of it, and I don't find either of you scummy based on the last few pages. Neither of you is really out and out accusing the other person of being scum, and neither of you really has any grounds to, nor does it feel like either side of your spat is pushing some sort of agenda, without stronger or more well-put-together accusations of the other person.
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In fact Dirk, after continuing to look over the last couple pages, I'm finding all the major commenters right now townie? Or at least not scum, I guess we could have some third parties still. Everyone seems to be struggling to pin down exactly what's happened, which feels relatively townie. In most cases, each person is trying to get information to help answer some question (what happened to last night's KP, etc.), and those feel like townie objectives to me as well. Because I'm reading both the questions and the answers sought as townie things, I'm not currently finding mementoss, JH, or you (to a lesser extent, because I still don't have a perfect grasp of the early stuff I missed and I know you were involved there).
Right now, I'm still much more convinced by Wiggles. My second tier of worry are folks like:
Misder - Doing nothing. All the stuff everyone else has said. All the stuff I didn't like at the end of D2. But also, look at Misder's vote yesterday and his earlier posts. Here's misder hedging his bets and getting a couple minor scum reads on Wiggles into the thread - + Show Spoiler +On August 26 2012 14:56 Misder wrote: Now, we had three people try to take control of town yesterday (JingleHell, Wiggles, BC before he died). The fact that neither JingleHell nor Wiggles are being as aggressive today is pretty weird, as I would have thought that at least JingleHell would have pushed for my lynch already On August 28 2012 04:42 Misder wrote: I have BioSC as my highest scum read atm. I find that he didn't really care about either lynches at all. Also, continuously saying that his scumhunting is bad as a backup.
JingleHell, I've already made a case on. I still don't like his play. The fact that he's not really pushing my lynch besides saying that he wants me dead isn't helping.
Third on the list is Wiggles, although I'm really just sheeping everyone else. I find that his case on BC was actually decent, but if BC was setting him up, then it actually makes sense (BC pretending to be a weak target so that Wiggles, who already lost two scumbuddies, could make a play). Also, his play today isn't that appealing, as I was ready for Wiggles to get all up in my grill after yesterday. But then he talks about inactivity not being inherently scummy and all defense, no offense.
I can see a Dirkzor being scum, but unlike BC, I don't think it really makes sense for Dirkzor to be scum with Wiggles, as it's putting two scum pushing for the same lynch on Day 1, a bit risky I feel.
I also find it a bit suspicious that Zeph is defending me. Gut feeling tells me something is up, but I find his claim pretty townish. . So okay, Wiggles is IN his top three scummy folks. According to his own posts, he currently has Wiggles as a member of the scum team. But look at his vote yesterday! + Show Spoiler +On August 28 2012 05:50 Misder wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On August 28 2012 05:10 Mr. Wiggles wrote:Show nested quote +On August 28 2012 04:24 Mementoss wrote:On August 28 2012 04:23 Mr. Wiggles wrote:On August 28 2012 04:10 BioSC wrote:Whelp. As it turns out, MLG weekend + TI2 Weekend plus lots of procrastinated homework means one inactive Bio. Combine that with a general "woe is me" about my reads in general makes it hard to put forth the effort. Well, here we go again. My 2 choices are misder or VE. Misder for his active lurking + the play around the time of yesterday's lynch. VE, because the case by HiroPro + Show Spoiler +On August 27 2012 09:03 HiroPro wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2012 07:34 Mementoss wrote:On August 27 2012 07:31 HiroPro wrote: hm, wiggles sounds legitimately annoyed. Can't decide whether to kill biosc or misder, drrrr.
##Unvote What are your thoughts on VE /dirkzor I haven't really read much since Toad died, so fresh look and all lol. Dirkzor I think is town. His early play I think was mostly just because of how much pressure he was under from BC and I think he's actually trying to contribute. I think VE is scum now for a couple of reasons. First, the thing with grush still strikes me as really uncharacteristic of town VE. VE is someone who throws out policy lynches as town, but it's almost always "if we have no strong scum reads, we should lynch a lurker". For him to push a policy lynch on a person for their play in other games is just mind-boggling. VE has always emphasized that there is no such thing as an "useless townie" because they're still a member of town to count against the mafia wincon, yet now his views have suddenly flipped. If you look at the LVI postgame (the last game with VE and grush in it), there's nothing to suggest that VE was unduly mad. Yes, I know he made some comment pregame about how grush would likely just lurk and troll, but at least before VE pushed the policy lynch, grush had seemed ok in activity and was at least responding to others. Next looking at the whole Wiggles-BC feud: Beforehand VE had said that he thought Wiggles was scum. But then when the cases come out, literally the only thing VE has to say about those two cases is a mild dislike of one of BC's points. Otherwise he just says afterward " BC died trying to get Wiggles lynched" and "Then he's absent for half of today, only to build a case against one of town's stronger scumhunters and disappear again.". That doesn't look like VE analyzing someone's play and reaching a conclusion based on that. It looks like him making a preconceived judgement and fitting what happens around it. Show nested quote +On August 23 2012 17:50 VisceraEyes wrote: Why does BC keep referencing Bugs' post as if Bugs is accusing Wiggles? He's said it twice I think now, and I don't think Bugs was accusing Wiggles at all. Show nested quote +On August 23 2012 18:20 VisceraEyes wrote: But it won't be - Bugs is alive to say "no guy, I think Wiggles is town (as my post indicates), LTR"
That's my point - it won't be Bugs' fault at all. Show nested quote +On August 24 2012 02:03 VisceraEyes wrote: What in the...was that shot not claimed AGAIN? Scum must really be getting desperate.
Was that a blue flip? It looked like it, but everything has been colored blue so I wanted to make sure...
I'm down with a Wiggles lynch guys. BC died trying to get Wiggles lynched, and I think we should oblige him.
##Vote: Wiggles Show nested quote +On August 24 2012 02:28 VisceraEyes wrote:On August 24 2012 02:16 Kurumi wrote:On August 24 2012 02:11 grush57 wrote:On August 24 2012 02:09 Kurumi wrote:On August 24 2012 02:03 VisceraEyes wrote: What in the...was that shot not claimed AGAIN? Scum must really be getting desperate.
Was that a blue flip? It looked like it, but everything has been colored blue so I wanted to make sure...
I'm down with a Wiggles lynch guys. BC died trying to get Wiggles lynched, and I think we should oblige him.
##Vote: Wiggles Nah, Wiggles attacking bc is a null tell in my opinion. Look at the timing of this hit, if they wanted to kill bc they would do it faster, it smells like a frame to me. Yeah I considered that aswell, but wiggles has been scummy HMMMMMMMMMMMM idk man also biosc where u been at man! Wiggles scummy ? He seems the only person devoting his time to this game. Some guys dont have enough time , yadda yadda. Although his theory on the lynch sounds wrong... Well I think Dirk is scum based on one post... I did not vote him because of my doubts (his points about viscera were good) it is hard to reread the thread on the phone, eh. Is this a joke? First of all, Wiggles posted like ONE time D1, and that was to vote me and DISAPPEAR. He had NO inclination to affect the lynch yesterday and, as Bugs and Wiggles will tell you, scum seemed to be perfectly content with the way the wagons were going too. Then he's absent for half of today, only to build a case against one of town's stronger scumhunters and disappear again. In what way is Wiggles "devoting his time to this game"? This is strikingly similar to his play in LV - vote, disappear, return to build a case, vote, disappear. I'm voting Mr.Wiggles because I think he's scum. I hope you guys will join me. Then, the amount of times VE promises thoughts and reads but then when he comes back has pretty much nothing useful to say. I know someone is going to bring up the shot done by Toad, but frankly I think it could just be separation. Toad knew it was only 0.5 KP and not going to pose a threat to VE actually dying. Maybe I'm being an idiot right now in ignoring BC lol, but it's not like I've been doing anything this game for some time now. ##Vote VisceraEyes Makes sense to me. And the more I go through cases and stuff, the less confident I am about them. Great. Tell you what. I'm going to go sheep the veteran flipped townie. My reads are shit and I know it. ##Vote Wiggles Ahahahahahahahaha Now that your here who do you think are scum. VE is scum. Day 1 he came out posting about policy lynching Grush. His reasons were not based on alignment. He put the onus of scumhunting onto other people, telling them it was their responsibility to convince him to lynch someone other than grush. Not convince him that their targets were scummier than grush, because his policy lynch wasn't based on grush being scummy, just that it would be better to try to lynch scum than a random person. After he was rightfully called out on his posting, VE pulled a 180. Some kind of sentiment that VE was town was created, as he very quickly jumped in between three different targets, with only one of them being somewhat original. What puts me off about this, is how quick of a turn-around it was and how badly it reeked of wanting to appease the people out for his blood. First, VE didn't defend his policy lynch on Grush, he just jumped to accusing other people after being accused. As well, VE didn't just accuse one person and attempt to get them lynched, he made a big show of jumping in-between three different targets and saying that he thought all of them were scum. This looks a lot like he was trying to go, "Hey, look at me! I'm scumhunting!", especially when contrasted with his play earlier. So, it looks as though the sudden spurt in apparent scum hunting and effort was made to avoid pressure, which makes sense, since after Day 1 the pressure dropped and so did the contributions from VE. After Day 1, the "scumhunting effort" from VE stopped. His play from then on has consisted of sheeping the lynch sentiment against myself and Misder while adding nothing of value to the cases against either of us. As pointed out by others, VE has been making promises of contribution, but has not been keeping them. Notably, making a case against either myself or Misder. As well, he failed to comment on either my case against BC or BC's defense and case against me while BC was alive. VE makes this post: Show nested quote +On August 23 2012 16:03 VisceraEyes wrote: Before I comment on your case Wiggles, what do you think of Dirkzor? You derped around and kept your vote on me all day while a townie got lynched, and today you don't even mention the counterwagon except as a footnote in your case on someone else. Do you think Dirkzor is town? Saying he will comment on my case. However, even though he was in the thread for the next two or so hours, he never comments directly on the case either by myself or BC, even though he has clearly read them. He avoids taking a side in the conflict between us, which supports VE's general play this game of laying low and avoiding attention, especially if his team was already planning on using their shot on BC. After BC dies, VE comes back and uses the death of BC to put a vote on me. However, read the post where he did so: Show nested quote +On August 24 2012 02:03 VisceraEyes wrote: What in the...was that shot not claimed AGAIN? Scum must really be getting desperate.
Was that a blue flip? It looked like it, but everything has been colored blue so I wanted to make sure...
I'm down with a Wiggles lynch guys. BC died trying to get Wiggles lynched, and I think we should oblige him.
##Vote: Wiggles In this post, VE does not make mention of BC having a good case, or even agreeing with the case BC made against me. Instead he insinuates that the death of BC was a result of trying to get me lynched, and uses the fact that BC has flipped town as a point for people to sheep to in support of him. The point of this post isn't to say that BC made a good case and town should lynch for it, it's to try to manipulate people into voting me because BC wanted to. It relies on an appeal to authority and the assumption that because BC was town, he was correct. Coming from a player with as much experience as VE, this isn't a simple mistake in logic. It's an attempt to cash in on an emotional response to BC dying and flipping town to try to push a mislynch. As for supporting meta, VE usually plays somewhat aggressively and is very outspoken, to the point where he is often lynched early into the game as he forces focus and attention towards himself. This is markedly different from how he has been playing this game, where he has played very passively and avoided attention. This difference could be explained with role considerations giving VE a reason to act as he is, but VE is not playing in a way that he is contributing to the town while maintaining a low profile, he is instead playing in a way that he only does enough to keep people off his back before sinking into passivity again. Altogether, this makes him scum. I like. Still confused why scum would shoot their own scumbuddy (at least the way Toad did it), but I can roll with this. ##Vote: VisceraEyes . This is something I always find scummy. Misder finds Wiggles his #3 scumread. Yet Misder votes VE, who wasn't one of his top scumreads, because of Wiggles' case. A case made by someone he thinks is scum. Plus Misder even pulls back and notes that he doesn't understand why scum would shoot scum D1, so it's clear he doesn't even really love the case on VE. Misder has a scumread on Wiggles. Misder could have voted Wiggles. Yet instead, Misder votes VE based on a case he doesn't fully love, made by someone he thought was scum.
BioSC - Doing nothing. I like where his vote ended yesterday, but not so much the way it was done, as others mentioned. Saying you haven't been reading along, find x and y scummy, but are voting z to sheep a confirmed town case is... maybe excusable? But his particular x, y, and z worry me. He managed to find scummy or vote for EVERY legitimate lynch option yesterday. I'd be more happy if he had just given a throwaway sheep vote. Plus, admittedly, there's still the chance Grush has a DT role and got a bad check on BioSC.
HiroPro - Hiro always seems to ask a LOT of short questions. It usually worries me somewhat. This game, he's had a lot of questions, but a pretty short filter compared to what I remember from other games. It also feels like he's not really DOING anything with the answers he gets. He asks for reads, he asks for thoughts on VE yesterday from a few people, but he doesn't DO anything with that. Again, from what I remember, I'm usually wondering the same things he is, and happy when his questions get answered. This game, I'm not getting that feeling so much.
Strongly, strongly feel that 2 of our scum are hiding within those 4. If the other isn't, then I'm thinking Heist/Grush, or as a distant, distant option, Kenpachi. His reads have been in agreement with mine this game, however, so I don't like him as a scum option yet. Don't feel like I've got a great handle on zephir or kurumi yet this game.
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Any last minute thoughts or reads people were saving?
Kenpachi, I figure you're still sold on Wiggles, but are you still working off this list?
On August 24 2012 09:12 Kenpachi wrote: uh.. i trust BC. im sorry but when he gets it going, hes probably the best player in the game.
however VE is also probably town.
Scum List: Mr. Wiggles Mattchew Dirkzor
GGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG
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Add to the above: I know you said you were sure on BioSC, and had a post where you were worried about Hiro. Just trying to figure out where your thoughts are.
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On August 29 2012 05:57 Drazerk wrote: Probably a bad idea to try and figure out Kenpachi... Can't hurt to try, and I've agreed with a number of his reads this game, as well as some others (Acro in LVI). Even without reasoning from him, I get a warm fuzzy feeling when we're both finding someone scummy.
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A few observations:
Haven't seen scum factional KP on N2 or N3. There's the possibility that Toad was the only one who could carry out the shots - "captured by Team Rocket" still appears to be the factional KP, and he's the only player who has flipped as a person, a member of Team Rocket, rather than just a red pokemon. Too much speculation there, better to assume town is at least solid with protects or something.
I was hit for a small amount of KP last night.
Don't want to lynch Grush today, would much, much rather lynch Wiggles.
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Odd, because I got a message that I took a little damage. That would mean I either got hit with something heavy or maybe an ineffective match between us so less protection?
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For now, just looking back over some kills/actions/whatnot.
Dirk's Death Mattchew claimed to shoot Dirk. Dirk is dead. The only odd thing about that death is that electric attacks should be super effective against water, yes? So each shot should have done (.5 kp + .5 for electric kp role) * 2 for effectiveness. Matt says he shot Dirk N2 and again N3 - On August 26 2012 06:15 Mattchew wrote: I did not shoot heist I shot at dirk On August 29 2012 05:59 Mattchew wrote: I lied, I shot at Dirkzor. Figured I would WIFOM whether or not I was shooting to hopefully avoid any interuption with where my shot was heading
If that's true, EACH shot should have done 2 KP of damage. So either someone protected Dirk for more than 1 kp on N2, the shot went off but did not hit because of unknown reasons, or Matt is lying.
Mafia Factional KP
On August 29 2012 06:40 HiroPro wrote: the mafia team kp probably changes flavor/type depending on who carries it out. Hiro, why do you think this? If this is the case, which of the NKs would you think are mafia shots?
Beyond that, I'm at work but can put a little bit of time in this afternoon. As of this moment I don't want a Grush lynch, and will try to pinpoint exactly why this feels like townGrush and not scumGrush. Bugs had some good thoughts on Grush in the obs of LVI iirc, worth looking at.
Specifically to Grush, don't just check out. I'd like to know (1) if you have any KP that you can direct (shots, putting bombs on people, etc.). No need to claim more than that atm. (2) If each player remaining was an antelope, who would be the most graceful antelope and who would be the sickly, old one that gets picked off by lions?
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On August 30 2012 02:25 Mattchew wrote: did you see how heist died? I believe that is where my shot went
On August 23 2012 06:18 GreYMisT wrote: Toadestern, as Giovanni with a Meowth met a shocking end On August 26 2012 06:14 deconduo wrote: Heist, the Koffing, has been electrocuted. On August 29 2012 06:07 GreYMisT wrote: Dirkzor the Squirtle met a shocking end One of these things is not like the other.
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Good timing, I was just about to ask you. You were so concerned about tracking KP at the start of the game, wondering your thoughts on it now. Specifically:
(1) Any thoughts on why Dirk didn't die N2? (2) Your thoughts on whether scum KP is missing or shows as normal abilities
As a side note, I suppose there are other options? If pikachu's creator is still alive, could you let us know how many KP moves pikachu has? If he's got multiple attacks, that could explain different flavors. Anyone alive pick a role for a different electric pokemon?
Also, Grey, can we get your answer to this question?
On August 17 2012 12:58 GreYMisT wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2012 12:47 Zephirdd wrote: Can I give special typing for a KP ability, for example Butterfree(Bug/Psychic) using Gust(Flying attack)? Give me a bit to figure out how broken that is, and I will get back to you.
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So...being one of those fine folks, I'm kind of interested in knowing that Psyduck does.
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He can't really lie at this stage of the game. However, <3 our medics.
I got no PM saying that I received a shield, but I did not take any damage N2. However, I kind of like that targetting. I still don't think grush is scum, but town Bio sort of throws out the possibility of DT grush with a redcheck on Bio.
Again, we should be lynching Wiggles.
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A Tale of Two Grushes
Grush - LV Day 1 involves a mayor/pardoner vote. Grush is pretty active during that day. Some one liners, some longer posts, but actual thoughts. See? Look at that. Like a page of filter off the bat, with some real stances.
Grush open being poked at by Toad, over a potential scumslip: On May 28 2012 09:27 grush57 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 28 2012 09:22 Toadesstern wrote:On May 28 2012 09:17 grush57 wrote:On May 28 2012 09:11 Toadesstern wrote:On May 28 2012 09:06 grush57 wrote:On May 28 2012 09:02 Toadesstern wrote:On May 28 2012 08:58 grush57 wrote:On May 28 2012 08:57 Toadesstern wrote:On May 28 2012 08:55 grush57 wrote:On May 28 2012 08:51 EchelonTee wrote: bigger
If you haven't posted/said much, now is the time to do it plssss YES DO SO NOW!You're letting the mafia win. For all we know all 5 mafia could be in those 8. ;( typo or did you post 5 because you're one of them and have 5 buddies? The op tells me it's 6 mafias. Sorry, last game I played was 5 mafia. And before you guys get on my case for an OMGUS you scum slipped, I said all 5, not 5 others. yeah but if you're mafia that would be a likely mistake to make and I don't think a townie would post something like that without checking the OP lol. Not sure what to make of it because people said you're anti-town no matter of alignment and I can see what they were referring to if you really are town :D By saying a typo it refers to me being anti-town? it refers to you being weird. Also about the ET matter: I still disagree with people voting him, even if he's town. Yeah I think he's somewhat likely to flip mafia but he's not a vet in my book and I don't think he should get into the mayoral position for several reasons, even if he is town: The mayor thing is pretty much a one-time use thing. You want someone to use that lynch in a good way and not some random guy who agrees that he's not good d1. The mayor will be shot early on UNLESS he is hurting town. So again, it's pretty much a one-time-only thing because if you're voting the right guys you'll get shot. If you're voting the wrong guys with 2 votes instead of just 1 mafia might want to keep you alive. I don't want that either because that's bad for town as well. So I really think we should vote a vet into the office. Yes you usually vote a vet to protect them, but that doesn't mean that we should vote some guy into the office just because there's no BGs. I find that highly suspicious. Vets are vets and they're going to be shot either way, it's not like not electing them is going to protect them from danger. So you want a good scumhunting vet to get shot? nah I want a good scumhuntig vet to take a mafia down with him before being shot either way. Yeah but everyone is lurking so its going to be a guessing game at this point. So the more important issue right now is to.... POST everyone! Look at this conversation with Toad. Toad initially points out an inconsistency in the number of scum, says Grush might be scum because he counted only 5 scum in a game that had 6 (indicating he might have 5 buddies). Grush gives actual responses, discusses it just being a typo. Doesn't just discuss himself either, but notes the lurkers, has counted posts, and says where he thinks mafia might be hiding.
Grush will occasionally call some folks scummy - + Show Spoiler +On May 30 2012 11:19 grush57 wrote: I nominate Kenpachi for the lynch.
He is playing his scum meta. Last game, he was inactive and he turned out to be scum. He's putting in less effort than Sinesis who got lynched. All of his posts are one liner's except for one which he makes a list, which is something a scum usually does(I learned that from a real vet.)
I ACCUSE YOU, KENPIKACHU! On May 30 2012 11:48 grush57 wrote: I'm being mean Kenpachi, you're a pretty cool dude, I'm sorry :"(. There have been rumors, starting in LIV. That I have, mystical powers. They rarely unleash. This, is a special case. (LOL YEAH I JUST MADE A LIST WHEN I SAID MAKING LISTS ARE SCUMMY DEAL WITH IT) You would except him to pick 1-2 vets 2-3 normals and 2-3 noobs right 1.(The smart, cunning godfather) Mr.Wiggles(1 vet down) He posts long, too long to read. He knows better than to lynch someone with no information. I also heard he is pretty good at mafia. If you look at his posts, only a page and there is a lot of indecisiveness in his posts. 2.(The undeserving vet)Mattchew(MAKE IT 1.5) His trap, was actually a trap to get a townie to question him and to get an easy peasy day2 town lynch. He was also lurking and he is a vet common bro you are better. 3.(The bigshot normal)StrongandBig(Pewpew 1)Im running for mayor, jk, no seriously. Et, no gf Mr.Wiggles.Buss my buddy gambit. 4.(Deh studious lurker)Gambitxc32(1(forduhnubs)) I can imagine the qt now(YO GAMBIT MY MAN U GONNA LURK CUZ ALL DEEZ NUBZ ARE LURKING LOL, THO WHEN THEY FIGURE THAT ME, WIGGZ, IS GF U GOTTA VOTE ET SO WE DON'T LOOK CONNECTED)## Studious VOTE: agree. Oh and yeah he is a lurker and was scared of wbg getting on his case and went for him. He obviously is paying attention to game responding to jaj(?) post asking him about stuff or w/e lol. 5.(idk actually, lets say normal)Zealos(yeah were about quick to lynch someone who is town(LOL THEY DONT KNWO THAT I KNOW WHO IS TOWN) aww yeah towncred(like they were actually gonna lynch toad lol such easy cred town fools) Better lurk it up you know, be scummy and put no effort LOL wtf zealos. 6.papapanda or... Manason. When Kenpachi(♥) mentioned him I was like, holy shit these town nubs let another scum hide, brbbbb gotta check dem filter and this took a long time to post and I saw that you put starsenses. Now, I think you might say that or w\e because u think I'll mislead them, but no i am a wizard. Basically, he was doing a bunch of a lil commenting on people not on my starsense list saying bs, less than a page of filter, however he commented on my starsenses so I love him and probly not mafia. Manason- MMK CHECKED HIS FILTER 3RD PAGE-DONT LYNCH GRUSH POLICY LYNCHES ARE BAD. Okay, someone in your QT played LIV and knew how I screwed up town and told everyone to not lynch me so I'd screw up the game. All the people who wanted me dead early game was town(Sinesis and Bh) Noob mistake of saying(ooh protect my gf Mr. Wiggles) more 1 liners blah blah blah too long, OMG YOU GUYS ARE ON MY BUDDY LETS BRING UP KITAMAN27. No, he made the same mistake as me in LIV, randomly voted someone. My starsense powers sais he is town.
Okay so I did all this in TL (LOL I KNOW) and the thread has probably progressed alot as this took like 20-30 mins to write. Please note I am unsure about the 6th mafia. Oh, and a lot of the bad grammar was on purpose.
But he won't really back those accusations up - + Show Spoiler +On May 30 2012 12:04 grush57 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 30 2012 12:00 MajuGarzett wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On May 30 2012 11:48 grush57 wrote: I'm being mean Kenpachi, you're a pretty cool dude, I'm sorry :"(. There have been rumors, starting in LIV. That I have, mystical powers. They rarely unleash. This, is a special case. (LOL YEAH I JUST MADE A LIST WHEN I SAID MAKING LISTS ARE SCUMMY DEAL WITH IT) You would except him to pick 1-2 vets 2-3 normals and 2-3 noobs right 1.(The smart, cunning godfather) Mr.Wiggles(1 vet down) He posts long, too long to read. He knows better than to lynch someone with no information. I also heard he is pretty good at mafia. If you look at his posts, only a page and there is a lot of indecisiveness in his posts. 2.(The undeserving vet)Mattchew(MAKE IT 1.5) His trap, was actually a trap to get a townie to question him and to get an easy peasy day2 town lynch. He was also lurking and he is a vet common bro you are better. 3.(The bigshot normal)StrongandBig(Pewpew 1)Im running for mayor, jk, no seriously. Et, no gf Mr.Wiggles.Buss my buddy gambit. 4.(Deh studious lurker)Gambitxc32(1(forduhnubs)) I can imagine the qt now(YO GAMBIT MY MAN U GONNA LURK CUZ ALL DEEZ NUBZ ARE LURKING LOL, THO WHEN THEY FIGURE THAT ME, WIGGZ, IS GF U GOTTA VOTE ET SO WE DON'T LOOK CONNECTED)## Studious VOTE: agree. Oh and yeah he is a lurker and was scared of wbg getting on his case and went for him. He obviously is paying attention to game responding to jaj(?) post asking him about stuff or w/e lol. 5.(idk actually, lets say normal)Zealos(yeah were about quick to lynch someone who is town(LOL THEY DONT KNWO THAT I KNOW WHO IS TOWN) aww yeah towncred(like they were actually gonna lynch toad lol such easy cred town fools) Better lurk it up you know, be scummy and put no effort LOL wtf zealos. 6.papapanda or... Manason. When Kenpachi(♥) mentioned him I was like, holy shit these town nubs let another scum hide, brbbbb gotta check dem filter and this took a long time to post and I saw that you put starsenses. Now, I think you might say that or w\e because u think I'll mislead them, but no i am a wizard. Basically, he was doing a bunch of a lil commenting on people not on my starsense list saying bs, less than a page of filter, however he commented on my starsenses so I love him and probly not mafia. Manason- MMK CHECKED HIS FILTER 3RD PAGE-DONT LYNCH GRUSH POLICY LYNCHES ARE BAD. Okay, someone in your QT played LIV and knew how I screwed up town and told everyone to not lynch me so I'd screw up the game. All the people who wanted me dead early game was town(Sinesis and Bh) Noob mistake of saying(ooh protect my gf Mr. Wiggles) more 1 liners blah blah blah too long, OMG YOU GUYS ARE ON MY BUDDY LETS BRING UP KITAMAN27. No, he made the same mistake as me in LIV, randomly voted someone. My starsense powers sais he is town.
Okay so I did all this in TL (LOL I KNOW) and the thread has probably progressed alot as this took like 20-30 mins to write. Please note I am unsure about the 6th mafia. Oh, and a lot of the bad grammar was on purpose. I agree with others opinions on Wiggles in that his lynch wasn't the best choice but calling someone scum for having posts that are too long is ridiculous. Having a filter a page long isn't too bad as long as the posts have content as Wiggles seem to. Plus wiggles still has more posts than most people anyways. He's not really indecisive either, he had two ideas on who to lynch for day one and so far day 2 has barely started. Sigh majuju, you were lurking too and now that I called out your buddy you finally unlurked. LOL SERIOUSLY TOWN NUBS STAR TPOSTING asdaSDFASDFA. Okay, I will bring up the posts. Actually just read them too much work lol. On June 02 2012 04:33 grush57 wrote:Why don't you ask the scum that question? But really, its obvious who is town and who is scummy on that list of who voted.
On the whole, including pregame banter and postgame, a little over 4 pages, and he died N2.
Grush - LVI
Grush's D1 - Here! Game starts somewhere in the middle. Way less contribution. When he does post, it's agreeing with someone, or little one liners, followed by just a vote on a wagon target.
When Grush gets poked, he responds with one-liners - + Show Spoiler +On July 05 2012 02:15 grush57 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 05 2012 00:26 Hyaach wrote: A town grush in LV wasnt afraid to defend towns when he need to nor was he reluctant to share his read. His interaction in the thread was far more active too.
His post this game all are filler-level post with 0 content. Well, it's good to be curious. On July 05 2012 10:17 grush57 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 05 2012 10:13 NoSmurfHere wrote: Actually judging by the swap and the players on each list I think both were town...hmm.
We should definitely kill grush at least though. We need to address these people who are skating by without getting attention. Allowing them to live while townies die because we seek active scum is a plan for losing. U WANA TUSSLE On July 05 2012 10:33 grush57 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 05 2012 10:22 Twelve wrote: Wow Grush your filter is really damning... What exactly have you been doing to help town so far? Likewise, chap. On July 07 2012 06:58 grush57 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 07 2012 06:57 Vivax wrote: I asked you for too much with the read on grush, it's pretty much impossible, tell me about hyaach instead please. Hiss. On July 12 2012 02:15 grush57 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2012 00:55 VisceraEyes wrote: Same, grush is the scums, he's got my vote tomorrow. STILL JUST A RAT IN THE CAAAAAAAAAGE Plenty of others but that's enough
Scumgrush makes "cases," but they're just kind of weak accusations, or nonsense - + Show Spoiler +On July 04 2012 03:46 grush57 wrote: Grush was sitting in the tent. Vivax was walking in with a angry crowd behind him ridiculing him about his bad performance. His excuses were very bad, said the crowd, and that HIS LOGIC FAILS. Grush agreed. ##Vote: Vivax On July 07 2012 07:35 grush57 wrote: T_T definitely between Twelve and BKE though. Kurumi's post does really point out the flaws of BKE, and when pressure came off he was all beepin up the beep, ya know. BUT u may b like, GURSHDEVICE U DON'T HELP AT ALL. True, homeieieieieieieiieieeieieieieieiei, but it doesn't change the fact.
aLZo, 11, __, 13 seems like a noobie townie.
SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
##Vote:BKE On July 13 2012 01:38 grush57 wrote: I want to lynch Majuju. all dat lurking and then when called out he is getting all freaky(in the wrong way mmkay) ##Vote: MajuGarzett
On the whole, including pregame banter and postgame, a not quite 4 full pages of filter. Lived until endgame, which was the end of D4.
So, based only on two games and nothing else, what patterns do we see in Grush's play? - Town grush lived half as long as scum grush, but posted as much or more. Towngrush more posty.
- Town grush makes real accusations sometimes, although he may not back them up with anything when asked.
- Town grush is more likely to respond to being called scum, or to people questioning him, with actual discussion.
PokeGrush PokeGrush's filter is a decent bit over 4 pages, after 3 full cycles (And he spent part of it banned)
He starts off responding to questions - + Show Spoiler +On August 20 2012 09:00 Mr. Wiggles wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2012 08:59 grush57 wrote: Come on, how are you helping at all right now? You're wasting time with a useless player. Anyways I've proven that I'm town. How have you done that? Also, in keeping with the spirit of the thread, spam spam spam On August 20 2012 09:02 grush57 wrote:See look at wiggles, he asks me a legit question. Plus, he continues my tradition To answer the question, breadcrumb, and meta. Plus I'm town. Now, we must find scum. I must stop posting so scum can start posting and then we catch them. Cool trick. On August 22 2012 11:39 grush57 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2012 11:32 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On August 22 2012 10:55 grush57 wrote: Okay so, I get banned, then People are all up in Drazerk's face because he is telling everybody to kill him and being stupid with that attitude. Still, I think he is town. Then the town switched to Dirkzor, I don't think he is scum either, he is helping out and responding. Hopeless1dr ninja votes, he is scum. People calling out Kurumi for being scummy, I agree. Toad(jk, lol idk) shoots VE, people get on VE's chain for policy lynching. NO ONE IS UP IN JINGLE'S GRILL ABOUT HIM WANTING TO POLICY LYNCH ME:O. Also I think Hiropro? Heist? made a post calling out Jingle which is good cuz he is scum. Then it's like Zephirrid(null on him, he has been getting scummier the longer the game has been going so far) and imallison(who I thought was a noob townie) and dirkzor(I think he is town aswell). End up lynching a townie and thats about where we were at.
So my scum list is: JingleHell(SCUMSCUMSCUM) Hopeless1dr(ninja vote, scum) Maybe BioSC(I don't even know why but he is scum) How is dirk helping? I would like a detailed response on that. I will agree that hopeless is likely scum at this point though. Well I mean he's posting cases and defending himself and contributing. I don't know why he was the closest to being lynched. On August 24 2012 02:28 grush57 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2012 02:25 Kurumi wrote:On August 24 2012 02:21 grush57 wrote: Okay :'( Wiggles you are still ON THE LIST Besides, biosc is scum. ##Unvote ##Vote: Biosc Why? Well, half his posts are before the game, and he just is basically lurking and not helping. In scum teams in my experience, you have 2-3 active in the thread, and 1-2 basically lurking Toad and chezinu died, I feel like there is only one major player in the thread that is scum atm. Also dirk may be scum aswell, before his posts were useless and now he just lurks. He gives some reads, with...some reasoning - + Show Spoiler +On August 22 2012 10:55 grush57 wrote: Okay so, I get banned, then People are all up in Drazerk's face because he is telling everybody to kill him and being stupid with that attitude. Still, I think he is town. Then the town switched to Dirkzor, I don't think he is scum either, he is helping out and responding. Hopeless1dr ninja votes, he is scum. People calling out Kurumi for being scummy, I agree. Toad(jk, lol idk) shoots VE, people get on VE's chain for policy lynching. NO ONE IS UP IN JINGLE'S GRILL ABOUT HIM WANTING TO POLICY LYNCH ME:O. Also I think Hiropro? Heist? made a post calling out Jingle which is good cuz he is scum. Then it's like Zephirrid(null on him, he has been getting scummier the longer the game has been going so far) and imallison(who I thought was a noob townie) and dirkzor(I think he is town aswell). End up lynching a townie and thats about where we were at.
So my scum list is: JingleHell(SCUMSCUMSCUM) Hopeless1dr(ninja vote, scum) Maybe BioSC(I don't even know why but he is scum) He engages in minor discussion - + Show Spoiler +On August 22 2012 11:03 grush57 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2012 11:00 JingleHell wrote:On August 22 2012 10:57 grush57 wrote:On August 22 2012 10:56 JingleHell wrote: Sorry my activity has been shit. My guts have been acting up, which has had me not interested in thinking much. Occupational hazard of crohn's.
Anyways, I'm not comfortable with the people looking at VE because he's playing differently. He took a LOT of crap in Mad Men for his play, some based on meta. If a lot of people want him to play differently, and he's tired of being looked at the way he is, he might just try to play differently.
I still like the idea of lynching Grush in absence of real reads, but maybe that's just a combination of me being vindictive and him being Grush. If we have a better target, obviously that would nullify it anyways. YOU DONT ANSWER FOR VE ACTIONS, VE DOES. You're trying to answer for my actions, you're saying it's scummy to want to policy lynch a useless poster (you), when I actually just don't want to read your posts. This game is all about reading intentions. Sometimes that leads to a defense. Tough luck. lol. no. You're assuming he's playing differently because he got butthurt. I'm saying that your scum. Different things On August 25 2012 06:49 grush57 wrote: Jingle, you don't answer to any of the cases against you, you keep bandwagoning on the townies!!!!!!!!!!! You call me scum because I'm actually playing this time?!?!?!?1?!!??!?1?1?1!/1?1?1!?1?1 However when commenting on VE's play you said he wanted to play differenty and give him the benefit brohan. Which is me questioning VE being town right now. But all the vets aren't trying, the one who did was BC and he died, and Wiggles is playing the EXACT same way he did as scum before. When I played with WBG before and he was town he was very active, and Kenpachi could be town or scum because he is Kenpachi.
**I doctored this quote because it was split into two posts**
I could keep pulling more stuff from this game, but now I want to do something else. So instead, you should read this. You should come to your own conclusions. But if you think Grush is scum, you need some decent reasoning. Because it looks to me like he's playing much more like he did in LV than in LVI. It looks to me like there are some actual helpful posts buried in the trolling. D2 I didn't think hopeless1der was scum, but I didn't fight it hard enough, had just entered the game. D3 I didn't think VE was scum, and I should have swapped my vote from Wiggles to misder in order to try and get a switch at the end. D4 I don't think Grush is scum, and it's time to actually stand up and fight his lynch, early. I do not want scum having control of this one.
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On the other hand, I present a little more on Mr. Wiggles.
BC's case regurgitated - + Show Spoiler +On August 23 2012 16:01 BloodyC0bbler wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2012 14:41 Mr. Wiggles wrote:On August 23 2012 10:19 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On August 23 2012 10:17 Mattchew wrote:On August 23 2012 10:16 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On August 23 2012 10:15 Mattchew wrote:On August 23 2012 10:13 Mementoss wrote: Mattchew Heist Misder WBG
Haven't heard much from these pokemon lately. interesting, why not wiggles or dirk in that list? He excluded scum From the list obviously if you are not being sarcastic that is my thought process I still like dirk as red, and wiggles has done absolutely nothing to help town period this game. He however has managed to find time to criticize people and claim they must be red with 0 case. (see bugs' post a few pages ago on wiggles to see what I mean). So, this post stuck out to me, because of the misdirection it's pushing. It's funny, because he says I claim people are red, when all I said is I think that at least one of BC and WBG are red. There wasn't a declaration about which I thought was red, just that I thought there was red between them. However, BC reacts very defensively here. His reasoning for me being a scum candidate is that I'm criticizing people and claiming "they must" be red without a case. But the fun part is I didn't call either him or WBG red directly, I just said one of them were red. So, why the defensiveness and near-OMGUS? If for example, I had said that there was at least one red among all the players still alive, no one would care. It would be fallacious to say that I was saying all of them must be red without a case. So then why the difference when I limit it to a small pool of players? Now the next fun part is that besides saying I'm claiming some people must be red when all I did was say that I thought at least one bandwagon was started by scum (which is a reason, by the way), BC criticizes me for doing so without making a case on either one. He also uses this to support the conclusion that I'm scum. This would be fine coming from another player, but not from BC, or at least not if you've read his filter. Let's take a look, shall we? + Show Spoiler [The Terrible Terrible Contradiction Re…] +On August 20 2012 10:19 BloodyC0bbler wrote: Whoever said third time is the charm is a horrible liar. Also people stop role speculating. Previous PtP games have seen really amazing ideas thought up and ones that lack any sort of creativity.
What people should instead be concentrating is scum and people trying to push scumish ideas. As Kurumi made the statement of role cops being the best form of cop he is obviously scum.
Now lets continue finding the rest of his team as it appears they are going to out themselves easily. Explanation came 6 hours later. On August 21 2012 04:33 BloodyC0bbler wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2012 16:16 Dirkzor wrote:Oh god. 7 pages of nothingness so far. Oh and btw I'm to.. No... not that. Horrible way to enter a thread. On August 20 2012 07:41 Drazerk wrote: ##Take In Sunlight
##Solar Beam: VisceraEyes On August 20 2012 07:56 Drazerk wrote:On August 20 2012 07:55 strongandbig wrote:On August 20 2012 07:52 Drazerk wrote:On August 20 2012 07:51 Toadesstern wrote:On August 20 2012 07:48 Drazerk wrote:On August 20 2012 07:46 Toadesstern wrote: as if. I'll consider that a troll and if you really do damage I'll blast right back.
Also: sup guyses I GOT A KP ROLE OUT OF MY TROLL Basically all I wanted I said you're trolling. Go figure what that might mean for my post. Still you wouldn't do the threat if you couldn't back up with something other than a half assed vote that means nothing soooooo... why were you trying to out kp roles? Track the damage track the scum Since this is the most interesting thing so far I'll guess its also the best way to start. Drazerk's maybe fake solar beam doesn't make any sense. I know its Drazerk so in that way I could be excused. But the way he explained it doesn't fit a Drazerk move (as I remember him from last I played). I would have expected a more "Because I wanted too" response. All that is meta and not super reliable. But "Track the damage track the scum" doesn't even make sense. Even if you know that Toad have a KP doesn't make it easier to find scum? I dislike Drazerk's posting so far... I end it with this lulz: On August 20 2012 10:44 Drazerk wrote:On August 20 2012 10:34 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On August 20 2012 10:28 Drazerk wrote:On August 20 2012 10:27 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On August 20 2012 10:23 Drazerk wrote:On August 20 2012 10:23 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On August 20 2012 10:17 Drazerk wrote: I'm with wiggles there are super powers out there that prey on certain information being known (Steamship 4 shot sniper comes to mind)
So the following -
No pokemon names No Type No role information No claiming medic to save scum
Anyone who does this will probably just be shot down or turned green Why do you keep stating obvious things -_- I have my reasons I hope they don't revolve around you using the argument later of "look at how helpful I was being, I clearly cannot be scum" because well, general advice to a group of players who at this point should all know the basics of playing clearly wouldn't need said advice. I never defend myself You should know this by now Then you should really stop playing so scummy. Playing as you are now reaks almost as distinctly red as mr kurumi over there. He smells bad. Theres no real way for me to stop looking like scum with my play style and its why you will need to kill me (I said kill not lynch) before Lylo other whys ill make an awful call at a critical situation and lose town the game or you will all suspect me and lose town the game. Man, I think dirk just claimed scum with this post. hurrah Explanation came 5 hours later. On August 20 2012 10:34 BloodyC0bbler wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2012 10:28 Drazerk wrote:On August 20 2012 10:27 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On August 20 2012 10:23 Drazerk wrote:On August 20 2012 10:23 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On August 20 2012 10:17 Drazerk wrote: I'm with wiggles there are super powers out there that prey on certain information being known (Steamship 4 shot sniper comes to mind)
So the following -
No pokemon names No Type No role information No claiming medic to save scum
Anyone who does this will probably just be shot down or turned green Why do you keep stating obvious things -_- I have my reasons I hope they don't revolve around you using the argument later of "look at how helpful I was being, I clearly cannot be scum" because well, general advice to a group of players who at this point should all know the basics of playing clearly wouldn't need said advice. I never defend myself You should know this by now Then you should really stop playing so scummy. Playing as you are now reaks almost as distinctly red as mr kurumi over there. He smells bad. No case. On August 21 2012 05:38 BloodyC0bbler wrote: Chezinu has not yet tried to make a new house called the chezinu house, fake claimed a role, or said hes brown. Guy is mafia yo. No case. On August 22 2012 07:43 BloodyC0bbler wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2012 04:05 Mementoss wrote:On August 22 2012 03:54 Toadesstern wrote: mementoss what's your take on Dirkzor vs Drazerk vs imallinson? Drazerk - commented more in detail before but troll bad town for now Dirkzor - the only thing suspicious about him seems to be his mess up in meta to try and make imallinson look worse than he is. I think this could be an honest mistake however. Most people voting for Dirkzor are people I don't trust, makes me uneasy. imallinson - will probably be where I'm placing my vote. I commented on it a bit before but will re-iterate. His initial posts were made to look like he contributed and actually tried drag day 1 discussion backwards. He did nothing for scum hunting and when criticized on this fact made a half ass case on SnB just to say he did. Spent most of the time defending himself which shittered up the thread and buried useful posts that were scum hunting at the time, it looks really bad in context. Also in the defence of himself he threw the heat onto dirkzor, who was an easy target because he had early heat in this game anyways. To take this further, his scum buddy who he planned this with, BC, immediately made a case onto dirkzor and got the wagon rolling. Look at the people voting for him, can you honestly say any of them look better than neutral to you?In this order: BC, imallinson, VE, mattchew, misder. I would like to hear your take on Dirkzor vs Drazerk vs imallinson additionally. ##Unvote: Mattchew ##Vote: Imallinson Well as you called me scum, and sheeped onto a now confirmed town player as well as lied in the bolded section. Guess what duder, I was putting heat and pressure on both draz + dirk before a case on allinson was EVER MADE. Now obviously thats only a minor lie, but given that I had out right said Dirk Scumclaimed well before that its still a lie. Also given how people voted. Dirk/ mementoss/bumatlarge for likely reds. No case on Bum, and flimsy reasoning on Mementoss. On August 22 2012 11:32 BloodyC0bbler wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2012 10:55 grush57 wrote: Okay so, I get banned, then People are all up in Drazerk's face because he is telling everybody to kill him and being stupid with that attitude. Still, I think he is town. Then the town switched to Dirkzor, I don't think he is scum either, he is helping out and responding. Hopeless1dr ninja votes, he is scum. People calling out Kurumi for being scummy, I agree. Toad(jk, lol idk) shoots VE, people get on VE's chain for policy lynching. NO ONE IS UP IN JINGLE'S GRILL ABOUT HIM WANTING TO POLICY LYNCH ME:O. Also I think Hiropro? Heist? made a post calling out Jingle which is good cuz he is scum. Then it's like Zephirrid(null on him, he has been getting scummier the longer the game has been going so far) and imallison(who I thought was a noob townie) and dirkzor(I think he is town aswell). End up lynching a townie and thats about where we were at.
So my scum list is: JingleHell(SCUMSCUMSCUM) Hopeless1dr(ninja vote, scum) Maybe BioSC(I don't even know why but he is scum) How is dirk helping? I would like a detailed response on that. I will agree that hopeless is likely scum at this point though. No case here either. On August 23 2012 10:22 BloodyC0bbler wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2012 10:18 Kurumi wrote:On August 23 2012 10:16 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On August 23 2012 10:15 Mattchew wrote:On August 23 2012 10:13 Mementoss wrote: Mattchew Heist Misder WBG
Haven't heard much from these pokemon lately. interesting, why not wiggles or dirk in that list? He excluded scum From the list obviously So you are defending all those people? KIta died , chez died , bum died ... Who is left , my dear Cobbler? All of them? no, but clear ignorance of people who should still be in the spotlight is ridiculous. Of that list only wbg to me is a town read and the other three are null's. Misder is likely scum based on similar level to his scum levels but hes also notorious for lurking period. Reasoning is based on activity... On August 23 2012 10:24 BloodyC0bbler wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2012 10:23 Mattchew wrote:On August 23 2012 10:22 Mementoss wrote:On August 23 2012 10:19 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On August 23 2012 10:17 Mattchew wrote:On August 23 2012 10:16 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On August 23 2012 10:15 Mattchew wrote:On August 23 2012 10:13 Mementoss wrote: Mattchew Heist Misder WBG
Haven't heard much from these pokemon lately. interesting, why not wiggles or dirk in that list? He excluded scum From the list obviously if you are not being sarcastic that is my thought process I still like dirk as red, and wiggles has done absolutely nothing to help town period this game. He however has managed to find time to criticize people and claim they must be red with 0 case. (see bugs' post a few pages ago on wiggles to see what I mean). But mattchew has done something to help town? :S I found SnB as town, and I am pretty sure VE is town too now. so thats pretty helpful what exactly have you done meme? other than bandwagon a townie lynch? you do realize you just claimed scum here right? On August 23 2012 10:35 BloodyC0bbler wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2012 10:32 Mementoss wrote:On August 23 2012 10:24 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On August 23 2012 10:23 Mattchew wrote:On August 23 2012 10:22 Mementoss wrote:On August 23 2012 10:19 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On August 23 2012 10:17 Mattchew wrote:On August 23 2012 10:16 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On August 23 2012 10:15 Mattchew wrote:On August 23 2012 10:13 Mementoss wrote: Mattchew Heist Misder WBG
Haven't heard much from these pokemon lately. interesting, why not wiggles or dirk in that list? He excluded scum From the list obviously if you are not being sarcastic that is my thought process I still like dirk as red, and wiggles has done absolutely nothing to help town period this game. He however has managed to find time to criticize people and claim they must be red with 0 case. (see bugs' post a few pages ago on wiggles to see what I mean). But mattchew has done something to help town? :S I found SnB as town, and I am pretty sure VE is town too now. so thats pretty helpful what exactly have you done meme? other than bandwagon a townie lynch? you do realize you just claimed scum here right? I dont get it either Because he has done nothing useful (so far) to help the town in any way. To come out and say "i found blah as town and I think blah is town" is great. You know who likes finding town? or more specifically, differentiating town from third party or town from mafia? Not fucking townies. Saying your green reads is awesome, but if you don't state your red cases with actual reasons and instead just hop on wagons / spout green reads you are likely not town. First time BC has called someone red and then actually made any kind of quick follow up with actual reasoning for it. He was still asked for his reasoning before he gave it though. Ding! Ding! Ding! We have a winner!!! So all in all, according to BC , we have a 9-person scum team of: Kurumi Drazerk Dirkzor Chezinu Mementoss Bumatlarge Hopeless1der Misder Mattchew Only one of these accusations had any sort of case or reasoning to go along with it when he posted it. Two of them had cases posted many hours after the actual accusation. So, that's either 8 or 6 people he has called scum without any kind of case or reasoning to back it up. But in the post I have quoted up at the top, BC says that one of the reasons I'm looking bad is that I called out "people" without a case. That's hypocrisy and contradiction at it's finest. In addition, the very fact that BC has called out so many people without any reasoning is alarming as well. He likes to call people out as not being useful to town or helping the town at all, which is funny when you look at his own posts. Basically, they consist of three things: -Making accusations with no case/reasoning -Role/setup speculation and general advice -Backing up his accusations only when asked Besides the couple cases he has actually bothered to explain, I wouldn't call his posts very "helpful". If you look through his posts without treating his posting as a whole, you might be tricked into thinking he's helping the town or actively scumhunting, but all he's doing is posting accusations that accomplish nothing and do nothing to help us kill scum. Now, the last thing to note is the general attitude with which BC has been treating his cases, particularly the one on Dirkzor today. He doesn't sound like he cares that much about lynching his target. This is a jarring distinction from the way he addresses the players he's accusing. In several posts, BC has claimed that Dirk has claimed scum, says that he's "clearly" acting anti-town, and makes another post where he just calls him mafia plainly. Basically, he says with complete confidence that Dirkzor is 100% scum. However, there aren't really any posts in his filter where he asks for other people to vote for Dirkzor, or challenges their choice of lynch target. So, he's not actively pushing people to lynch Dirk, which is weird considering his posts say that he knows he's scum. Next, is his change in tone after the Day 1 Dirkzor lynch failed: On August 22 2012 07:43 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On August 22 2012 04:05 Mementoss wrote:On August 22 2012 03:54 Toadesstern wrote: mementoss what's your take on Dirkzor vs Drazerk vs imallinson? Drazerk - commented more in detail before but troll bad town for now Dirkzor - the only thing suspicious about him seems to be his mess up in meta to try and make imallinson look worse than he is. I think this could be an honest mistake however. Most people voting for Dirkzor are people I don't trust, makes me uneasy. imallinson - will probably be where I'm placing my vote. I commented on it a bit before but will re-iterate. His initial posts were made to look like he contributed and actually tried drag day 1 discussion backwards. He did nothing for scum hunting and when criticized on this fact made a half ass case on SnB just to say he did. Spent most of the time defending himself which shittered up the thread and buried useful posts that were scum hunting at the time, it looks really bad in context. Also in the defence of himself he threw the heat onto dirkzor, who was an easy target because he had early heat in this game anyways. To take this further, his scum buddy who he planned this with, BC, immediately made a case onto dirkzor and got the wagon rolling. Look at the people voting for him, can you honestly say any of them look better than neutral to you?In this order: BC, imallinson, VE, mattchew, misder. I would like to hear your take on Dirkzor vs Drazerk vs imallinson additionally. ##Unvote: Mattchew ##Vote: Imallinson Well as you called me scum, and sheeped onto a now confirmed town player as well as lied in the bolded section. Guess what duder, I was putting heat and pressure on both draz + dirk before a case on allinson was EVER MADE. Now obviously thats only a minor lie, but given that I had out right said Dirk Scumclaimed well before that its still a lie. Also given how people voted. Dirk/mementoss/bumatlarge for likely reds. On August 23 2012 13:31 BloodyC0bbler wrote: regardless at this time I still feel that dirk or wiggles are better lynches then mattchew so I am voting there.
Vote: dirkzor On August 23 2012 13:37 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On August 23 2012 13:34 Drazerk wrote: Personally I'd rather kill Wiggles / Mattchew over Dirk but thats because I honestly get no vibes from the case and I hate voting on things I don't care about. Honestly the only vibes I get from mattchew are bad townie at the moment. Could that mean red? yes but i feel its less likely. I am fine with a wiggles or dirk situation with current preference to dirk only given that he has done far more to get on my radar. You at least have a reason to not want to kill dirk though which is more than most have. Now Dirkzor has gone from being 100% scum to being "likely scum". Also, his two posts addressing him today are saying that he's "fine" with a dirk lynch, or that he's a better lynch than mattchew. This is different from saying that he thinks Dirkzor is the best lynch, or the person we should for sure kill today. Notice the tentativeness compared to how he acted on Day 1. It's a complete departure from how he was treating him before, and he doesn't give a reason for such a change in his posts. Indeed, he even continues to press Dirkzor into Night 1. So, why the caution and tentativeness from him now? It's because he's sounding out the lynch. He can't just abandon Dirkzor, because of how hard he pressed him on Day 1. As well, there was an anti-Wiggles sentiment that began during Night 1, and now he's saying he'd like to lynch me possibly. However, he doesn't make a strong push one way or the other. His posts are saying that he could go either way, and that he's OK with either one of us being lynched. It's because he's trying to sound out the way town sentiment is running, and wants to leave himself outs in case he comes under opposition. He's setting himself up to keep tunneling Dirkzor without doing anything to really get him killed, while also keeping open the possibility of switching to me if it turns out that's how people want to run Day 2. Therefore: ##Vote: BloodyC0bblerI've outlined what I think of him and his play above. The guy is scum, and he's who we should be lynching today. He's trying to get by with superficial "contributions", and has been playing in a self-contradictory and hypocritical manner since he's first started posting. We need to kill him today, or else he's going to just float by as people give him a pass for doing a minimal amount of anything. + Show Spoiler [Free Bonus Content] +On August 23 2012 10:35 BloodyC0bbler wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2012 10:32 Mementoss wrote:On August 23 2012 10:24 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On August 23 2012 10:23 Mattchew wrote:On August 23 2012 10:22 Mementoss wrote:On August 23 2012 10:19 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On August 23 2012 10:17 Mattchew wrote:On August 23 2012 10:16 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On August 23 2012 10:15 Mattchew wrote:On August 23 2012 10:13 Mementoss wrote: Mattchew Heist Misder WBG
Haven't heard much from these pokemon lately. interesting, why not wiggles or dirk in that list? He excluded scum From the list obviously if you are not being sarcastic that is my thought process I still like dirk as red, and wiggles has done absolutely nothing to help town period this game. He however has managed to find time to criticize people and claim they must be red with 0 case. (see bugs' post a few pages ago on wiggles to see what I mean). But mattchew has done something to help town? :S I found SnB as town, and I am pretty sure VE is town too now. so thats pretty helpful what exactly have you done meme? other than bandwagon a townie lynch? you do realize you just claimed scum here right? I dont get it either Because he has done nothing useful (so far) to help the town in any way. To come out and say "i found blah as town and I think blah is town" is great. You know who likes finding town? or more specifically, differentiating town from third party or town from mafia? Not fucking townies. Saying your green reads is awesome, but if you don't state your red cases with actual reasons and instead just hop on wagons / spout green reads you are likely not town. On August 23 2012 10:22 BloodyC0bbler wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2012 10:18 Kurumi wrote:On August 23 2012 10:16 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On August 23 2012 10:15 Mattchew wrote:On August 23 2012 10:13 Mementoss wrote: Mattchew Heist Misder WBG
Haven't heard much from these pokemon lately. interesting, why not wiggles or dirk in that list? He excluded scum From the list obviously So you are defending all those people? KIta died , chez died , bum died ... Who is left , my dear Cobbler? All of them? no, but clear ignorance of people who should still be in the spotlight is ridiculous. Of that list only wbg to me is a town read and the other three are null's. Misder is likely scum based on similar level to his scum levels but hes also notorious for lurking period. Besides the fact that finding town helps find scum through the process of elimination and helps give people "cred", these posts by BC are another example of the terrible "contributions" he makes and why I think he's scum. He calls out Mattchew for calling people town. Mattchew says here that he thought S&B was town (who was flipped), and that he finds VE to be town. BC proceeds to flip out at him and call him scum because he lists VE as a green read. Not exactly "spout[ing] green reads", as BC puts it. Funny is that 13 minutes before that BC made a post of his own saying he has a green read on WBG, which is the same level of pointing out greens that Mattchew was guilty of. Also funny, because Mattchew has posted suspicions and reads and BC claims he has done none of that in favour of pointing out tons of greens. As well, there's another condemnation of calling people red without a case. Hilarious stuff. Set trap, bait, trap sprung. You caught a wiggles. Now wiggles whats awesome is that I was never sure if you were just being lazy, or just red. Easiest way to do that is to set out some bait to see who jumps on me. Given the death of Chez and Toad already for your team, you knew you'd have to take out one of the more well known players fast or risk being slaughtered. Thankfully I knew how to draw out some scum. You see wiggles, by forcing you to justify your earlier post by giving you the "weaker" target to jump at I knew you'd target me. You know, just like your team opted to try and drop VE day 1 and failed? This time I put myself in the shoes of the person who would be attacked as I like the spotlight. Now to start with your horrific case in which I will refute it, then toss the ball back in your scummy court. You start by saying that you only said "you believe one of my and bugs must be scum" You then say i am acting defensively, although I only barely mention you in passing, while the person who made a giant post to attack your play (which only appeared after you called two people out mind you) was ignored. Considering you so obviously cherry picked the case you would find easier to make it is obvious you would ignore the person who was obviously more "defensive". Anyone who has played with me before will recognize based on largess of posts and tone of posts on if im on the offensive or defensive. Nice try lying though. As for my reason on why I believe you are scum? I told people to look at bugs' post that he had already made on you. As you ignored that bit I will toss it in here for all to read. Show nested quote +On August 23 2012 06:02 wherebugsgo wrote:On August 23 2012 05:32 Mr. Wiggles wrote: These are my observations.
Town had absolutely no direction on Day 1, and no strong town leaders emerged.
This shows that scum weren't trying hard to seize thread control, and that scum were content with the way things were going. They didn't feel like they had to have any of their players act very pro-active and try to misdirect the town overtly. Meaning, that scum didn't feel threatened
So what does it mean that scum didn't feel threatened? It means that they didn't feel like they were in any danger of actually being killed/lynched. So, this tells us that either both major candidates were town, or that if Dirk is scum, mafia didn't think he would die.
That's pretty obvious though, as those are the only two possibilities, so here's my interpretation of the situation. There wasn't really any concrete push to kill imallinson as compared to Dirk. A lot of the people voting for them were saying they were fine with either dying, and there weren't really any large arguments comparing the merits of killing Dirk vs. imallinson. Both of the lynch trains developed in a way that was insular from the other. This means that who got lynched more or less would just come down to which wagon sheeping townies decided to hop on. This isn't a good situation for mafia because if they hope for chance it might mean that their own member gets bandwagoned to a point where they can't bring it back, or at least to a point where bringing it back puts them under a lot of suspicion. So in that situation, they would make a case for why lynching the townie was better than lynching their scum buddy to prevent the wagon from going the wrong way. But, no one did that. That implies to me that scum didn't care which person got lynched which further implies that both candidates were town.
Further supporting that, is the earlier observation that we didn't really get anything done on Day 1, no strong leaders emerged, and no direction was given. Scum are doing good just by having that happen, and it looks like they didn't feel the need to do anything else, because everything was going their way in terms of the bandwagons. They didn't have to fight for their buddy, because he wasn't up for the lynch.
In my opinion, at least one of the wagons was started by scum (BC/WBG). As well, I find it likely that the scum team split their vote between the two candidates for the most part in order to help prevent people from pointing out one of the lynches as a scum bandwagon, as well as to set themselves up as opposing each other to stop associative tells.
Right now I'm just waiting for the night to end, because kills and vig shots should hopefully clear the air a little and make things more transparent. I agree with most of this. Based on how the wagons went I don't think Dirkzor is scum. I unfortunately was not available to reverse-snowball the allinson lynch. From the looks of it I should've known he was town when so many people jumped on at once. I do disagree, however, with your assumption that one of the wagons was started by scum. #1, I'm town and that leaves BC (and I don't think he is scum ATM either). The fact that you casually push this is really disconcerting, though. You did nothing to stop either wagon and now you're seemingly trying to push blame and culpability based on weak and faulty assumptions onto myself + BC. If you legitimately thought one of us was scum then I'd expect you to actually come forth with reasons but you have simply seeded doubt. ___________________________________ I'm okay with Mattchew dying as he seems particularly lazy this game. From what I recall he doesn't like playing scum (and this was something he stressed in my games) so I think the case on him does have merit from a meta standpoint. I'm unsure what to think of Wiggles based on his last post since he seems to be making summaries that make sense, but making accusations that don't. If I die he should be watched carefully. Also if I die, newer players take note: Toad, BC, VE, bum, Kita, and Zephirdd are all also good targets to watch for in coming days as they are all capable as scum and are all harder to pin early. I would argue that if any of them seem "off their game" then they're probably scum. In particular I would rate Kita as the best scumhunter in this game, so if he's alive and somehow not dangerous to scum then he should be lynched immediately. So far he's done very little so it is certainly possible we may be going in thatdirection. Now his points on you are exactly why I believe you are scum. You see, you and I were on a mafia team once where you and I did exactly what bugs outlined in that post. Exactly to a fucking tee. You know you are caught, and you know I have already bagged another of your team and now you are running scared. Next we have you attempting to throw mud at me for wait, what? Day 1 early game posts? You know, when people were trolling and being faggots? Anyone reading would know those are my early reads based on how people are playing. If they had been solid reads backed up by more than a gut feeling you would have seen me build cases and push their lynch as I did dirkzor. You did notice I spent the majority of the day pushing one target right? Or are you opting to try and cover the fact that I have forced people into posting, pushed my best read, and even *gasp* put pressure on people for bad play. Anyone is free to look through my filter, then they can open and compare to yours. you have 13 posts as I am writing this (ignored your /in post) I have 41. I pushed my best read all day 1, I have called people out for being red. Yes I have called out many people based on random gut feelings or horrific play done by said player. Given that one of those gut reads was accurate and so far only 1 confirmed wrong I am doing fairly well. Who do you think is red wiggles? Me? Who else, lets see in all those 13 posts you You accuse myself and VE. In two game days, and all the content posted and given deaths of players and flips You have found two suspects. Yet you spend more time early on trying to link me to players like toad, make mention that you dislike my posting but rather than attempting to do anything about it you swap over to VE saying that you won't lynch grush until he answers your questions to verify his alignment basically. Yet hes back, hes been back for awhile. You know what you haven't done? What you said you were going to do. you also said this as your main argument to lynch VE Day 1 Show nested quote +On August 21 2012 16:47 Mr. Wiggles wrote:On August 21 2012 07:14 VisceraEyes wrote: If there's no support for it, then I'll entertain the cases put forth. There isn't much more to say on the matter, and anyone who dwells on this should be put under scrutiny. It's a vote like any other vote, I've given my reasoning for it - it's up to you guys to convince me that your read on random player is better than my seething hatred for grush' playstyle. I can tell you without a doubt that attempting to bully me for it is not going to work. The problem with this is that it isn't about finding scum. As a townie, you're supposed to look at all available information and decide who is most likely to be scum. You don't say, "I don't like this guy, so I'm voting him and it's up to you to convince me to kill scum instead of him". You're taking any responsibility for having to do anything on Day 1 away from yourself and putting it onto other players. I'm surprised all the people voting for All-In Tim for deferring his opinion to the judgement of others aren't on you for the same thing. ##Vote: VE Note the bolded Parts Then go back and look at the section of bugs post above that I bolded. You directly are calling out two players for two bandwagons forming (no shit typically 1-2 people start analysis on someone that gets a vote rolling) However you specify the no strong leaders emerged while you yourself have done nothing til this point to help direct the town in any way. Thus you are putting onus on myself and bugs as you state one of us must be scum while leaving out the fact that you did absolutely nothing to stop the days actions. If you didn't agree or believed this while it was going on you as town would have put a stop to it rather than "summarizing the day" You also did exactly what you called VE out for as your primary reason to vote for him. Cute that you like inconsistencies. You claim that I am pushing misdirection off one post when you made one yourself doing the same (in regards to myself and bugs) you then do the exact same thing that you called out and voted to lynch someone for yet its ok for you to be hypocritical. Anyone can compare our filters. It is fairly obvious that I am around and as things happen I post on them. Be it lengthy or not is a moot point. Spotting someones scum tells/bad plays and calling them out don't require large post by post analysis, nor do they need indepth behavioural analysis when all you do is put heat on someone for said behaviour. Given that you are misrepresenting my posts, and have waited in the shadows to cherry pick while misrepresenting my posts shows how desperate your team is at this moment. Regardless you have outed yourself as scum and will die for it either by lynch or bullet. Its now merely up to the town. Also I would like to draw everyones attention to how he analyzed me. He took an insane care to talk about my case on dirkzor as minutely as possible. Keeping in mind I have spent more time talking about that lynch of all my reads than any of the others (thus my most comfortable read). Yet he ignores my longer posts and instead concentrates on the posts that are designed to initiate dialogue or minor pressure people. Why would someone who is so sure he is correct on his read not attempt to discredit my dirk case or find flaws in those posts as to why I am red? Simple. If he was town doing a post by post method he would opt to find the faulty logic or the like from where I had most invested myself rather than random small posts. As such he is banking on people not actually re reading day 1, or even both our filters to figure out how full of shit he is. Everyone should at this point in time be lynching dirkzor or mrwiggles Both will bleed red. VE's thoughts regurgitated - + Show Spoiler +On August 24 2012 02:28 VisceraEyes wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2012 02:16 Kurumi wrote:On August 24 2012 02:11 grush57 wrote:On August 24 2012 02:09 Kurumi wrote:On August 24 2012 02:03 VisceraEyes wrote: What in the...was that shot not claimed AGAIN? Scum must really be getting desperate.
Was that a blue flip? It looked like it, but everything has been colored blue so I wanted to make sure...
I'm down with a Wiggles lynch guys. BC died trying to get Wiggles lynched, and I think we should oblige him.
##Vote: Wiggles Nah, Wiggles attacking bc is a null tell in my opinion. Look at the timing of this hit, if they wanted to kill bc they would do it faster, it smells like a frame to me. Yeah I considered that aswell, but wiggles has been scummy HMMMMMMMMMMMM idk man also biosc where u been at man! Wiggles scummy ? He seems the only person devoting his time to this game. Some guys dont have enough time , yadda yadda. Although his theory on the lynch sounds wrong... Well I think Dirk is scum based on one post... I did not vote him because of my doubts (his points about viscera were good) it is hard to reread the thread on the phone, eh. Is this a joke? First of all, Wiggles posted like ONE time D1, and that was to vote me and DISAPPEAR. He had NO inclination to affect the lynch yesterday and, as Bugs and Wiggles will tell you, scum seemed to be perfectly content with the way the wagons were going too. Then he's absent for half of today, only to build a case against one of town's stronger scumhunters and disappear again. In what way is Wiggles "devoting his time to this game"? This is strikingly similar to his play in LV - vote, disappear, return to build a case, vote, disappear. I'm voting Mr.Wiggles because I think he's scum. I hope you guys will join me. On August 26 2012 06:52 VisceraEyes wrote: I think Bugs was mafia hit. I can't think of anyone off the top of my head who really thought he was scum, and given enough information I think he would have been dangerous to the scumteam later. That was a tactical scum hit that screwed Bugs over.
That leaves the question: was it strictly because he would have been dangerous later, or was it because he was on the right track?
Mr. Wiggles being still alive is pretty strange - considering the resistance to his lynch IN SPITE of the BC kill, it seems to me that he'd be an even more attractive kill than Bugs even playing lurky.
Today I want to lynch between Misder and Mr. Wiggles.
I'll put something together when I have time - I'm going out tonight, and won't have access to a computer. Grush's thoughts regurgitated - + Show Spoiler +On August 24 2012 02:29 grush57 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2012 02:28 VisceraEyes wrote: **VE's comment on Wiggles being scum**QUOTE] Yep this is true. LV play by wiggles. Reminds me exactly of how he played.
Show nested quote +On August 25 2012 06:52 grush57 wrote: darnit idk how I entered but when commenting on VE's play you said he wanted to play differenty and give him the benefit brohan. Which is me questioning VE being town right now. But all the vets aren't trying, the one who did was BC and he died, and Wiggles is playing the EXACT same way he did as scum before. When I played with WBG before and he was town he was very active, and Kenpachi could be town or scum because he is Kenpachi. Kenpachi's thoughts regurgitated - + Show Spoiler +On August 24 2012 09:16 Kenpachi wrote: we gotta kill wiggles tmrw. VE made a pretty good point about his playstyle being very similar to his mafia style. As another veteran who has seen Wiggles' mafia play many times, i can probably say the guy is mafia this game
also the Dirkzor thing is just a shameless and zealous bandwagon.
i skipped everything said about Zephird so far.
Anyone voting Grush or BioSC, think to yourself. What have they done this game? That seems to be one of the main points against them, town feeling that they haven't been useful. Now, this to yourself, what has Wiggles done this game? What's Wiggles done since BC got off his jock? Check his filter!. Apart from some dialogue with me, Wiggles has been active a whopping one time in the last 96 hours or so. What time was that!? It sure sounds important! It is!
Wiggles' only burst of activity in the last chunk of time was around the VE lynch. He came out to call VE scum, make a case on VE, push for VE. After making his case, he just pokes at VE until lynch. That's it.
This is the thing. I'm with him that inactivity =/= scumminess. But check the end of our little chat:On August 28 2012 05:26 austinmcc wrote:Show nested quote +On August 28 2012 05:14 Mr. Wiggles wrote:Hey austin, do you want to be a good townie and make a decent case for once? On August 27 2012 08:55 Mr. Wiggles wrote:On August 27 2012 05:30 austinmcc wrote:On August 27 2012 05:06 Mr. Wiggles wrote:I split this up for the people who don't like to read and think anything longer than 5 lines is massive, so a shout-out to you! Here's the first challenge. Someone has to explain why being inactive is a sign of being scum. They also have to explain why not being invested in the game or not caring is a sign of being scum. Anyone who mistakes active lurking for inactivity loses the game. Please speak in general terms and not in terms of specific players, since I've seen this applied over and over again with terrible results. Go!To the extent that you're saying that inactivity isn't necessarily scummy, you're correct and I agree with you. At this point though, not all your votes are due to a generic "inactivity = scummy" rule. Some may be, and some may be pure sheep votes. BC mentioned that specific to you, the way you're playing this game was similar to your scumplay in past games. I know that, to me, the way you're playing this game feels similar to your scumplay in LV. At least some of the accusations in general are not an indictment of inactivity in general, but specific to your play. While you want someone to defend that heuristic "in general terms and not in terms of specific players," not everyone is indicting you in general terms. Moreover, if the accusation is no good when put in general terms, how is your counterargument, which seems to be I've seen this applied over and over again with terrible results a good counter? If you don't like the general rule because it's not specific, don't give a general defense. Plenty of inactive players have flipped town, but that doesn't somehow negate the fact that inactive players can also flip scum. Ok, cool, we've established that using activity as the reason to call someone scum is silly. I propose we start policy lynching for it in future games. Just one point about your last sentence though, is that I'm not saying all inactive players are town, I'm saying that general activity isn't and shouldn't be used as, an indicator of alignment. Moving on. Let's talk about meta now that you've brought it up. Here's the second challenge. Describe my scum play from LV, including appropriate motivations for it, as well as the general state of the game as my play existed in it. Next, describe the state of this game, and how my play resembles my play when I was scum, including similar motivations. So far, the people trying to apply meta to me (including BC) have yet to provide an adequate explanation of my play in previous games as scum, and how it is similar to this game. Simply stating something does not make it so, and if you wish to use meta, you should take the time to explain yourself and demonstrate how it applies. Simply saying that someone's play reminds you of their play in another game when they were scum isn't enough to make an accusation based on meta. Doing so is the same misuse of meta that causes some people to believe that meta is useless or even detrimental in scum hunting. Meta is very useful, but only if you can substantiate it and adequately explain it. Please answer the fucking question. You're using meta as the largest basis for your case, so please explain the meta, or are you just lying through your teeth? I'm voting for you. I'm pushing for you. And I've made terrible cases in the past. But I've also made some good ones. For right now though, I'm not going to post a big ol' meta analysis on you. If you don't get lynched, I may. But I respect your ability to defend yourself and distance yourself from teammates (Rereading LV made me notice how well you'd done that early), and for now I'm more inclined to find you scummy and see what you do on your own, rather than being the first mover and setting you up to respond.If you're 100% intent on having a miniature proper-use-of-meta debate, it can happen postgame or in the general thread. But I picture it gumming up discussion here. I really wanted to see what Wiggles would do if he were left alone. If he didn't have a case against him to respond to, because he's willing to come in here and defend himself. His responses feel good, feel legit, but if that's all he's contributing, we've got a problem, yes? So I didn't want to keep going back and forth, letting him argue for himself; I wanted to see what he'd actually do on his own volition.
All he did was call out VE. On the day where the other lynch options were Misder, who is confirmed scum, and Wiggles himself. Personally, that rubs me the wrong way. If a guy is only active to defend himself and push the lynch away from one confirmed scum and one maybe-scum, that looks...bad? Scummy? Not quite green/bluetastic? That's my problem with his inactivity. He's been getting active only to defend himself or keep misder/himself from getting lynched. Those aren't good bursts of activity.
So if you're voting Grush or BioSC because of inactivity or lack of contribution, you better be able to show how Wiggles is active and contributing. Where are his reads the last few days? Cuz I don't see much, except to get VE lynched. Where does he participate in trying to figure out how people died, what's up with scum KP, etc.? Cuz I don't see much of that either. I see a veteran player who is still alive this late in the game. I see a player who has been accused by a LOT of players, but never even managed to be the second lynch option (He lagged behind misder yesterday). I see a player who is being called out for fitting the way he played scum in LV, staying in the background, occasionally making a case - see VE, Grush, and Kenpachi's comments, as well as my own.
tl;dr- He's a vet but he's not dead, despite no protection from BioSC and maybe none from Zephir
- He's been mainly inactive, and only recently active to defend himself or push the lynch onto VE yesterday
- He's rubbing a LOT of players the wrong way, BC/VE/Grush/Kenpachi/austinmcc, two of which have flipped town
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GRUSH. Answer the antelope question at least, if not both.
Specifically to Grush, don't just check out. I'd like to know (1) if you have any KP that you can direct (shots, putting bombs on people, etc.). No need to claim more than that atm. (2) If each player remaining was an antelope, who would be the most graceful antelope and who would be the sickly, old one that gets picked off by lions?
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No no, not townies. If you had to imagine each player as an antelope, who would be graceful? Who would be old and sickly? Antelopes are quite bad at being able to play forum mafia.
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I'm around for a moment Matt. Current reads on them, vomited onto page without much editing:
Kurumi I'm not sold on either alignment. Most townie thing about Kurumi? Appears to have created Zephirdd's role but is keeping quiet on exactly what the role is. It looks to be more than just "medic," and not revealing the rest bodes well for Kurumi right now.
On the other hand, + Show Spoiler +On August 24 2012 02:16 Kurumi wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2012 02:11 grush57 wrote:On August 24 2012 02:09 Kurumi wrote:On August 24 2012 02:03 VisceraEyes wrote: What in the...was that shot not claimed AGAIN? Scum must really be getting desperate.
Was that a blue flip? It looked like it, but everything has been colored blue so I wanted to make sure...
I'm down with a Wiggles lynch guys. BC died trying to get Wiggles lynched, and I think we should oblige him.
##Vote: Wiggles Nah, Wiggles attacking bc is a null tell in my opinion. Look at the timing of this hit, if they wanted to kill bc they would do it faster, it smells like a frame to me. Yeah I considered that aswell, but wiggles has been scummy HMMMMMMMMMMMM idk man also biosc where u been at man! Wiggles scummy ? He seems the only person devoting his time to this game. Some guys dont have enough time , yadda yadda. Although his theory on the lynch sounds wrong... Well I think Dirk is scum based on one post... I did not vote him because of my doubts (his points about viscera were good) it is hard to reread the thread on the phone, eh. On August 24 2012 02:32 Kurumi wrote: He said he did not have that much of time d1 and I believe him. Look at bum's play. It was lackluster too. Kita was around, but did not try to grasp the thread. Same goes for pretty much every vet. Bugs started a lynch and was just there... The game is really passive. Wiggles made a jump today. I think Bc was killed by scum to incriminate Wiggles. . I can understand having that thought when BC got shot. But we're past that, we've had some more flips, we've had not much from Wiggles. I'm not liking that those are really the most recent mentions of Wiggles.
Currently leaning town by process of elimination.
Drazerk Very, very active early. Very, very active whenever pokemon stuff comes up. However, gut feeling, his activity overall has dropped off since the very early game. Not excitement pregame --> nothing during game, but excitement D1 --> not as much lately. Gut feeling about that gut feeling, townie. I don't love the dropoff in activity, and haven't gone back to reread past games, but from what I remember of watching Holy Roman, he was pretty active and consistent throughout? The posting style gave him room to be more silly that game, but he sort of kept up his activity (as far as I remember). This game, not so much. So...not currently concerned about him.
Currently leaning town.
HiroPro Finding hiro the most scummy of the three. These were my thoughts yesterday:HiroPro - Hiro always seems to ask a LOT of short questions. It usually worries me somewhat. This game, he's had a lot of questions, but a pretty short filter compared to what I remember from other games. It also feels like he's not really DOING anything with the answers he gets. He asks for reads, he asks for thoughts on VE yesterday from a few people, but he doesn't DO anything with that. Again, from what I remember, I'm usually wondering the same things he is, and happy when his questions get answered. This game, I'm not getting that feeling so much. I'm still not...loving the feeling that I get from him. It really feels like he's doing less with his prodding, which indicates to me that he may be prodding because he knows that's how he plays and so he's got to ask questions when scum.
Right now I'm still mulling over his the mafia team kp probably changes flavor/type depending on who carries it out. comment. Unsure yet whether it shows some knowledge that town doesn't have, or whether he's actually putting together some pieces. At first it really struck me as scummy, but I was alright with his answer that Because I think it's unlikely that mafia have a kp (the team rocket thing) which has been blocked 2 nights in a row. It would make a lot of sense for Toad to have been the only one with that flavor, since he was Giovanni while all the other mafia have just been pokemon.
wbg is probably a mafia hit. And since he had an extra night life, he was probably double stacked that night (psychic only has 1 weakness in the original games). He also claimed a hit last night, which would give us a LOT of KP. Like, I got hit last night. He got hit last night. That would mean that we had matt shooting dirk, mementoss raging misder who raged back, and 2 extra shots. We have no more claimed town KP, so that COULD be mafia factional KP + one mafia pokemon with KP? If we still have town KP besides mattchew, then I'm not sure I trust that he was hit. Everything just kind of...uncertain as to Hiro, but he's still giving me that off feeling and not a town feeling.
Out of the three, he's my scummiest. Out of people really playing, I THINK he's my #2 read behind Wiggles, but unsure. Other options out there like random Kenpachi scum.
Out for the night.
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On August 30 2012 09:52 Mr. Wiggles wrote: Draitini checked town, Pikachu checked town.
That means there's a town check on Mattchew now as well. I have no idea who Draitini is. One of Kenpachi, you, Hiro, Draz, and Austinmcc.
If anyone made a frame/cover/GF/miller role, that would be nice to know too. Who was your third check and what nights did you check these?
Also, what is your method of checking? You say you got town results on two pokemon, rather than players. How did you submit those actions if you don't know who had what pokemon?
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BioSC's role doesn't make him town, and claiming it doesn't make him town, because you can't make a false claim when you out yourself to the person who created your role.
His targets look alright to me, although sure, he could be making them up.
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Draz one thing I'd say is that you seem to play a very active scum game, and you like the mindgames aspect of trying to show you're townie. Others may play a different game. BioSC isn't playing a very active game, doesn't seem to be trying to plant any suspicions or work towards any agenda that I can see.
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On August 30 2012 22:09 Mattchew wrote:Show nested quote +On August 30 2012 21:52 austinmcc wrote: BioSC's role doesn't make him town, and claiming it doesn't make him town, because you can't make a false claim when you out yourself to the person who created your role.
His targets look alright to me, although sure, he could be making them up. well did you get +.5 life n2? I believe jingle claimed he did Jingle did not claim until after you've mentioned three times that he's claimed.
I did not receive such a message, but I wouldn't have due to mah pokemans.
I do not believe Drazerk has claimed, except that he claimed to use Sunny Day earlier.
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Bah, I was looking through your filter for .5 kp or shield. Didn't see those words when I looked through. All good.
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Draz, the downtime that you've complained about each of the last two days is sleep for some of the world. I'm east coast US and was asleep during that, so anyone further west here ought to have been as well.
Matt, all I can say is I didn't receive a pm about having a shield. I don't think I would have though. It doesn't show Bio's lying, it doesn't show JH is lying. Zephir also said he protted me last night, so I'm thinking I didn't have a shield, because I would have had to be double stacked to go through prot and shield and still take damage (I'm assuming), and that seems unlikely to me at this stage of the game, especially with 2 claimed medics and a claimed vig running around. But again, me not having a shield should have to do with my pokemans, and not with whether or not Bio targetted me N2.
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That's it; I'm making coffee. Need to stop misreading.
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On August 31 2012 01:30 Mattchew wrote: austin can you claim your pokemon and ability and exactly what damage you took?
please and thank you Yes. However, I would like Wiggles to answer the questions from last night before I do so. Who was the third pokemon he checked, and on what nights did he receive his checks.
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Haha. I actually had a claim post typed out, but where I misspelled my pokemon's name and abilities just in case typos could beat the mighty VT lazzzzzor that may or may not exist.
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Updated Stuff
Kill flavors - + Show Spoiler +Meowth used payday on VisceraEyes! Bumatlarge, the Voltorb and Chezinu, the Gastly fainted due to psychic damage!
StrongandBig, The Charmander became confused! He Fried himself in his confusion! StrongandBig fainted!
Kitaman27, The Clefairywas captured by Team Rocket!
Toadestern, as Giovanni with a Meowth met a shocking end BloodyC0bbler has been incinerated.
Heist, the Koffing, has been electrocuted. Wherebugsgo, the MewTwo/Mr. Mime, got too much sun. Misder the Ditto Felt the Rage of Dragons!
Mementoss the Gyrados Also felt the Rage of Dragons!
Dirkzor the Squirtle met a shocking end Based on what we know: - "shocking end" = Mattchew
- "Incinerated" = VE
- "Rage of Dragons" = Mementoss
We can be nearly certain that WBG used his SK KP N1, and that his SK kill flavor is "fainted due to psychic damage." His metronome could explain the other psychic KP or the confusion KP, or those could both be non-WBG shots. Total unknown KP flavors: - eletrocuted
- got too much sun
- became confused
- psychic damage
Claims - + Show Spoiler +Zephirdd (Chansey --- Medic + unknown) Kurumi (Caterpie/Metapod --- String shot(actions on Kurumi delayed), VT laser) Drazerk (? --- Sunny Day (Increase fire kp, decrease water kp)) Grush (? --- Vengeful of some sort) BioSC (Psyduck --- Medic + persistent shield) HiroPro (Slopoke --- ?) Mattchew (Pikachu --- Vig) JingleHell (Magnemite --- target's actions are randomly retargeted) Wiggles (? --- invincible DT)
Kenpachi (? --- ?) austinmcc (? --- ?)
We also know we have an Ivysaur and a Dragonair from the evolution announcements, but those roles are not yet claimed.
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Yeah, I'm not overly worried about being vanillafied.
I'm Dratini/Dragonair. I'm a hider. On N1 I don't think Zelblade was around to hide. On N2 I hid behind HiroPro. Since evolving, I can no longer hide every night. At the moment, I don't think I want to reveal the restriction(s) on when I can and can't?
That's why I don't think I'd have a shield if BioSC protected me, because any action taken on me should have failed. I don't know if the person taking the action gets notified of this or not, however. If BioSC did get a notification, then the fact that he didn't reveal that I was untargettable that night is one reason I'm leaning town on him.
Was unable to hide last night. Took .25 kp damage. Depending on how hard Zelblade protects, that could indicate that I was double stacked, or it could mean I just took one big shot from someone, perhaps wheover is ivysaur or had the "electrocuted" kill flavor.
I wanted to see what night Wiggles received a check on me. I still think he's scum. But I don't know that he's lying about his ability, as if he just receives a random check then perhaps it wouldn't have failed N2 because it wasn't targeted at me.
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EBWOP: That last Zelblade should read Zephirdd.
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I still prefer a Wiggles lynch to a Grush lynch.
Drazerk, there's nothing that says flavor has to match. Growlith had cutepuppysniff. Matching some types to some roles gave a bonus, which indicates that you can match roles to types that they don't fit with no bonus.
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Further updated stuff
Kill flavors - + Show Spoiler +Meowth used payday on VisceraEyes! Bumatlarge, the Voltorb and Chezinu, the Gastly fainted due to psychic damage!
StrongandBig, The Charmander became confused! He Fried himself in his confusion! StrongandBig fainted!
Kitaman27, The Clefairywas captured by Team Rocket!
Toadestern, as Giovanni with a Meowth met a shocking end BloodyC0bbler has been incinerated.
Heist, the Koffing, has been electrocuted. Wherebugsgo, the MewTwo/Mr. Mime, got too much sun. Misder the Ditto Felt the Rage of Dragons!
Mementoss the Gyrados Also felt the Rage of Dragons!
Dirkzor the Squirtle met a shocking end Based on what we know: - "shocking end" = Mattchew
- "Incinerated" = VE
- "Rage of Dragons" = Mementoss
We can be nearly certain that WBG used his SK KP N1, and that his SK kill flavor is "fainted due to psychic damage." His metronome could explain the other psychic KP or the confusion KP, or those could both be non-WBG shots. Total unknown KP flavors: - eletrocuted
- got too much sun
- became confused
- psychic damage
Claims - + Show Spoiler +Zephirdd (Chansey --- Medic + unknown) Kurumi (Caterpie/Metapod --- String shot(actions on Kurumi delayed), VT laser) Drazerk (? --- Sunny Day (Increase fire kp, decrease water kp)) Grush (? --- Vengeful of some sort) BioSC (Psyduck --- Medic + persistent shield) HiroPro (Slopoke --- ?) Mattchew (Pikachu --- Vig) JingleHell (Magnemite --- target's actions are randomly retargeted) Wiggles (? --- invincible DT) Kenpachi (Snorlax --- ?) austinmcc (Dratini/Dragonair --- Hider)
We also know we have an Ivysaur from the evolution announcements.
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Leaving work, probably not back before deadline.
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gg wiggles.
Should probably get the last of the claims over with? Or at least if you created a role that hasn't been claimed, you should let us know what pokemon it is?
Otherwise, gonna look over votes and the reads that our flipped scum gave out, see if anything can be turned over.
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Also that's kind of almost everyone in the game.
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I think I'm going to trust his checks for now. Hmmmmm.
We've got that electrocuted death not connected to Matt's normal KP. Either an unclaimed pokemon, magnemite(i think had thunder/electric stuff?), or the seemingly very unlikely option that Matt is a GF pikachu with 2 different kill flavors (or maybe a pokemon kill and factional kill?)
We've got Dirk not dying N2. Would that be Kenpachi's doing? If not, we still don't know what's up there.
I'll try and swap back over to non-setup stuff, just kind of stuck trying to fill in the gaps.
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On August 31 2012 09:53 JingleHell wrote: My entire role has been claimed, and confirmed by the creator, at some point in the thread. You really need to start making some sort of effort before throwing random ass wild accusations around.
On August 24 2012 11:03 Mementoss wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2012 10:02 JingleHell wrote:On August 24 2012 09:49 Drazerk wrote: I still think scum would of shot VE for flip insurance but so far his play is coming of as town to me
I dislike Wiggles because of the timing on the shooting and the majority of his play only happening when he was under scrutiny.
Mattchew is giving me bad vibes but the bandwagon is ALSO giving me bad vibes so I'm not sure what to do about that but given the choice of Mattcher / Dirk ill probably vote mattchew
I want to see more of the following - Jinglehell, Heist and Misder or for someone to shoot all three
I also want Kurumi to tell us what he knows about Zel because something is clearly up with that.
What do you want me to do more of? I've contributed on Mattchew, and I haven't really got any other clear reads right now. So if I see someone say something that sounds scummy, I chip in, but I'm trying not to clutter the thread. By the way, if Mattchew used his KP, it didn't land on target, since he was confused, courtesy of yours truly, Magnemite. In fact, reading the flavor text, it may have inadvertently been the cause of death of Toad, going by the "shocking end" bit. I cause an ability to hit a random target. I'm not entirely sure why the flavor is different than that of a confused Pokemon hitting themselves, though. Due to the fact that this may sound slightly off, if you feel the need to flip me and make sure I'm telling the truth, just remember me when I'm gone and blue. I made this role and can confirm it makes the intended action hit a target at random Mementoss said he made your role. Mementoss said that supersonic works like you said it works.
- Mementoss never said that was your full role. He confirmed that your description of supersonic was correct
- Magnemite is electric-type. Pikachu is electric type. So far we have 0 other electric pokemon. Unless you find another electric-type, SOMEONE electrocuted Heist, whether factional KP or an electric attack. Right now, that's you and Mattchew, and he's got a green check. Not ironclad, but something.
I've put in quite a bit of effort this cycle, and a decent amount last cycle. Going to continue doing so.
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EBWOP: There's a second post where mementoss confirms a single ability.
The first bullet point is out. The second bullet point is still in play. If we've got factional KP assigned by shooter, which I still don't like as an option but could be true, then you're a potential shooter.
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Yes. I'm tunneling you so hard. It's not that we have an electric-flavor kill unaccounted for and you're one of what could be multiple electric types. I've never thrown that out as a single option in many. I've always just said JingleHell is scum.
Knock it off. You're a possible shooter on that kill. As are our unclaimed players. As it Mattchew, although less so. As is any non-electric pokemon that was given an electric ability, which is why I re-asked Drazerk's question to grey about whether a pokemon could get an attack of a type that it was not. Quit getting so worked up that you get mentioned as a possibility.
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Busy day today, sorry.
Jumbled thoughts -
- Still going to look at votes if I don't die. Especially the misder/VE/wiggles lynch from 2 cycles ago. We know that scum almost got lynched there.
- Planning on looking at who was actively pushing wiggles early, then backed off. Early meaning real early, not this last day. Thought there is that mafia tends to want vets out of the way early. May have looked at wiggles as an option for a mislynch, then backed off once he seemed like he wasn't too invested and therefore not a big threat.
- Jingle's being so bristly feels odd, but not necessarily scummy. Would like to give him another read-through, although I don't have him at the top of my list right now. But purely going, "JH backed up Mattchew's claim at a time where scum wouldn't back up Mattchew's claim, therefore he's town" doesn't sit perfectly with me. If there's anyone that wants to take an action that scum wouldn't take, it's scum, because then they're automatically viewed as town now. Probably just me being paranoid, though.
- Anyone who created a role that hasn't been claimed yet ought to say so, barring some massive downside.
- Still a few unaccounted for actions - Dirk not dying N2, electrocuted kill, etc.
- Still don't like grush for scum
In what order are damage, protection, and effectiveness calculated? Ex: player is attacked for 1 kp from a super effective source, protected for 1 kp from a normally effective source. Are the protection and damage calculated first, leaving 0 damage to get an effectiveness multiplier? Or is the effectiveness first, meaning 2 kp of damage and 1 kp of protection for a single kp of damage actually going through?
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At this point I think it's fine to hold off on claiming role if you've got a reason. We just still have those couple unclaimed pokemon, which is starting to stand out.
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Another captured...almost confirms that we protected/hid from factional kills N2 and N3, yes? Seems quite lucky, perhaps N2 scum factional KPed mewtwo for the extra night life, and then someone's "too much sun" finished the job with another KP?
With my evolution I picked up dragon-type KP, but using it removes my vote the next day. Also, while I was Dragonair, whoever NKed me, or a random person voting for my lynch, got an item they could sell "for a power of their choice." I did not reveal that. As Dragonite it's no longer the case, sorry, no free powers.
Gonna look back over what's happened. We've got a LOT of useful information on these last couple pages. That's another mattchew shot that's off, another claim by hiro (dmg last night, rb tonight).
Kurumi and Draz feel like letting the class know what Butterfree's got? Can hide anything that REALLY needs hiding, but we've got a lot of powers to coordinate and might be good to know what's left.
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I know that Zelblade picked a role for Ghastly, but not for any evolutions. So not all pokemon that can evolve may.
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Draz, I'll have better answers later today. For now,
I'm pretty sure I still think Hiro is a good target. Less sure on Kenpachi, but...
Mixed on Grush. I think we've hit a point where basically everyone should be claiming everything. Name, powers, what role they created. The sooner we get ALL that on the table, the sooner we see what's been going wrong, and the sooner I can stop focusing on the setup and focus more on regular mafia play.
Would really like to have that effectiveness question answered, about how damage and effectiveness are calculated. That ... I think 100% determines how I feel about zeph?
Before Kurumi does anything to JH, I'd rather know who JH has targeted each and every night. Unless of course, I've missed that too.
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I know you claimed N1. Didn't think you had N2 or N3.
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It should have done 2 KP. But the N2 shot on Dirkzor (Squirtle) should have done 2 KP as well.
Either someone is dicking with Mattchew's shots, Mattchew isn't shooting, or ... there's some kind of weird protection out there?
However, given that Dirkzor was town, scum shouldn't have been protecting him and none of our medics have claimed to do so.
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Lot of possibilities for someone messing with the shot. Hiro fake claim with some kind of RB or delay power, anyone else that's claimed but their claim hasn't been confirmed by creator, etc.
JH/Supersonic is unlikely because SOMEONE would have been getting hit. I don't remember any N2 claims of people taking damage off the top of my head.
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We can speculate all over this but can't get too close. If I were picking for Slowpoke, I'd pick some sort of delaying action. The delayed DT is nice, fits, so could be true.
A passive that delays actions taken on you could come to mind. Mattchew shoots last night, doesn't connect til next night. Or an ability to delay someone's action a night. A power that causes delay could explain our Mattchew shots almost entirely. Mattchew shoots Dirk N2, shot is delayed until N3. Mattchew shoots Dirk N3, doesn't connect until N4 when Dirk is already dead. Mattchew shoots Hiro N4, doesn't connect until N5.
But that's just saying "maybe bio gave him x." Also, it seems that pokemon that are going to evolve do so when they use their abilities. A slowpoke that hasn't evolved might mean there's no evolution in this game, or it might mean he's got a power but hasn't used it.
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On September 02 2012 07:32 HiroPro wrote: works exactly like the game one: sacrifice 0.25 hp to make a substitute that can block 0.25 KP (plus the type bonus). If it's bigger than 0.75, it'll still absorb everything if it's only one hit. Okay wait.
Kenpachi has a NIGHT(?) ability. To activate, he sacrifices .25 HP?
After doing so, he assigns ... like a body double to someone, and the body double absorbs .25 KP*Effectiveness IF the target takes less than .75 KP damage, and the full KP from one shot if they take more than .75 KP damage?
Kenpachi has no way to recover hp after doing so? Kenpachi has no restrictions on how often he can use that ability?
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On September 02 2012 09:24 JingleHell wrote: Voted Grush again. Not going to bother re-explaining why I want him dead, since people aren't paying attention or making rational sense anymore. You realize pretty much the entirety of your wanting Grush dead was because of your Grush/Misder/Mementoss triad?
We've flipped the other two. One was town, one was scum. Since those flips, you just go "I still want to lynch Grush for all the reasons I said before." Those reasons included him being scum with scumbuddy mementoss.
I heard mementoss was town.
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On September 02 2012 09:34 HiroPro wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2012 09:28 austinmcc wrote:On September 02 2012 07:32 HiroPro wrote: works exactly like the game one: sacrifice 0.25 hp to make a substitute that can block 0.25 KP (plus the type bonus). If it's bigger than 0.75, it'll still absorb everything if it's only one hit. Okay wait. Kenpachi has a NIGHT(?) ability. To activate, he sacrifices .25 HP? After doing so, he assigns ... like a body double to someone, and the body double absorbs .25 KP*Effectiveness IF the target takes less than .75 KP damage, and the full KP from one shot if they take more than .75 KP damage? Kenpachi has no way to recover hp after doing so? Kenpachi has no restrictions on how often he can use that ability? He has Rest to recover all of his HP (can't use it the same night he uses substitute). The normal type bonus applies so it's 0.75 not 0.25. One ability once per night. Okeedoke. We're all good there then.
ThisOn August 31 2012 12:35 Kenpachi wrote:VisceraEyes 3 times is still slightly odd, since VE died D3 and was not alive N3, but it doesn't feel killably odd?
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Which is why I'm not sure if I find it killably odd or not. He did make a huge deal when we lynched VE over wiggles, so you'd think that he noticed VE was dead.
But...I dunno.
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You said you protected VE three times.
On August 31 2012 12:35 Kenpachi wrote:VisceraEyes 3 times
VE was slightly dead N3.
On August 28 2012 06:02 GreYMisT wrote: Night 3 TOWN used LYNCH on VisceraEyes. Its Super-Effective!
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Drazerk is confirmed to be Bulba/Ivysuar. That pokemon evolved, nobody else has claimed. Austinmcc confirmed to be Dragonite. Evolutions + check and nobody has counterclaimed. Mattchew confirmed to be Pikachu. Check and nobody else has counterclaimed. Kenpachi confirmed to be Snorlax. Hiro made the role and nobody else has counterclaimed. Kurumi confirmed to be Butterfree. Drazerk made the role and nobody else has counterclaimed. HiroPro confirmed to be Slowpoke. BioSC made the role and nobody else has counterclaimed. JingleHell confirmed to be Magnemite. HiroPro check and Mementoss made the role and nobody else has counterclaimed. Zephirdd confirmed to be Chansey. Kurumi made the role and nobody else has counterclaimed.
grush claims Geodude.
One thing I have been thinking about is WBG's role. I'm assuming that nobody made the SK role? In my mind, the person who made that role should have let everyone know there was an SK at the beginning of the game. Anyone else have thoughts on this? Either the role maker didn't claim, role maker was told he was not allowed to claim, OR is an extra role floating around (Everyone makes 1 role + hosts make the SK role = 1 unassigned role available to scum to fakeclaim).
So there is a CHANCE that someone whose pokemon name is confirmed only because someone made that pokemon is lying. There is also a chance that we have multiple scum who are covering each other, one claims a fake pokemon, another claims to have created it. If we flip anyone who isn't what they say they are, we should think hard about lynching the person who said they created the claimed role.
As to the lynch.
I do not want to lynch JingleHell, despite his thinking that everyone wants to lynch him always. I do not want to lynch Mattchew. I do not want to lynch me. I do not want to lynch Drazerk atm. I do not want to lynch Kurumi atm. I do think that we should discuss how devolution beam gets used next cycle, narrow down 2-3 targets, and not spam it on half the thread.
I am worried about the presence of a scum medic. Kurumi, could you tell us exactly what kind of protection/heal Chansey has?
Left with Zephirdd, Kenpachi, Grush, HiroPro.
Out of those, I don't really want to lynch Kenpachi today. We've had 2 mattchew shots go missing. One was last night, when Kenpachi was allegedly resting. Scum or town, I kind of believe that he tried to use his ability every night and rested last night. Therefore, he probably didn't interfere with Mattchew's shot last night.
So now I'm down to the other 3. Unsure that I want to change my read on Grush. So I'm probably looking at HiroPro, with an outside chance of Zephirdd as my vote.
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Minor addition.
WBG's metronome could explain ONE of our unaccounted for N2 actions.
On August 26 2012 06:14 deconduo wrote: Metronome: Once per night you can target a Pokemon with your metronome. It is a move that can produce many different techniques and with a little luck you can end up getting the right one just in time. Who knows what information you could pick up from it?
However, it's odd that it was targeted. I don't see WBG using it on heist, who was inactive and got electrocuted. SOMEONE has the ability to electrocute another player if the electrocution wasn't due to metronome.
But the fact that WBG could have targeted anyone and done anything makes me think that either the electrocution OR the missing shot on Dirk is explained by metronome.
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REALLY disorganized here. But I'm going to go ahead and post it. Been trying to figure out the KP from N2 and where it all came from.
If Zephirdd has 1 KP normal protection.
I took .25 KP damage N2.
So I either took - .5 KP from an electric/fire/grass/water source and Zephirdd protected 1 normal KP
or
- .5 KP from an electric/fire/grass/water source and Zephirdd did not protect me
or
- 2.5 KP from an electric/fire/grass/water source and Zephirdd protected 1 normal KP
The weird thing is that NOBODY has claimed to have a .5 KP move at this point. In fact, there ARE no fire/electric .5 KP attacks, right, because of the bonus to those types. So in order to receive .25 damage in EITHER the first or second scenario above, I had to have been hit by grass or water for .5 KP. At the time, nobody knew I was dragon-type, so they would not have known that the numbers would look funny. Only the third situation allows me to have been hit by fire or electric attacks.
KP we should have seen N2. Mafia factional Pikachu 1 electric KP WBG 1 psychic KP
KP that might have been out there N2 WBG's metronome Some KP we don't know about Grass KP that Drazerk has been hiding ("too much sun" felt like it might have been you?)
That's a MAX of 6 or so KP. We had heist die. We had WBG die, either 1 or 2 KP to him. That's 2 or 3 KP out of the pool. I don't think there's another 2.5 electric/fire/water/grass KP out there.
Which leads me to believe that whether or not Zephirdd protected my N2, I was hit by .5 KP from grass or water.
HiroPro, how much damage did you take N3?
On August 29 2012 06:11 HiroPro wrote: So these kill flavors don't make any sense lol
And I got hit. Trying to figure out where all the KP has gone each of those nights.
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Drazerk did you take any action N1?
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So...
hopeless1der claims to hit HiroPro N1 for .5 KP (Maybe .25? Unsure how effectiveness works against a pokemon with 2 types) -
On August 25 2012 06:02 deconduo wrote: Quick Blitz: This Physical attack lets you leap forward and attack someone causing .5 kp’s worth of damage to them.
On August 25 2012 05:28 Hopeless1der wrote: I am Hitmonlee and I hit HiroPro with Quick Blitz Night 1. It should have dealt 0.5kp. I did not claim because he did not die, nor did he try to identify his assailant. I have no confimation of whether or not he took damage. My reasoning was that he was involved in the imallinson wagon but lurked the rest of the time and wasn't an active part of discussions. It was pretty much guaranteed that someone on that wagon was scum, and really, I just took a swing. I didn't breadcrumb my hit.
Hiro claims that he did not take damage -
On August 25 2012 06:08 HiroPro wrote: K i skimmed thread. I never got hit.
Hiro has not claimed to be bulletproof. None of our three medics claimed to protect him N1 (Kenpachi claims VE, BioSC claims VE, zephirdd claims heist). JingleHell's D1 supersonic is accounted for. We have absolutely nothing that explains why Hiro didn't get hit.
I do not like this, Sam I Am. Originally went looking into this because of his claim to take damage N3. I dunno how the attack would work, whether quick blitz would have done full damage or half damage to Hiro, but the important thing is that Hiro claimed it did NO damage.
Does anyone have thoughts on this? Confirmed town says KP shoulda hit Hiro. Hiro says it didn't. I dunno why scum would not just claim to have been hit, but it's weirding me out that Hiro says he didn't take damage N1, DID take damage N3, but didn't get hit by Mattchew's shot last night. Two shots unaccounted for that should have hit Hiro.
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No Drazerk, scum KP hasn't ever been fully explained. After seeing a captured kill flavor again, I'm pretty convinced that "captured/captured by Team Rocket" is the flavor for the factional hit, although it still gets adjusted by the pokemon carrying out the hit's type.
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Well, we're at 8/1 or 7/2 or 6/3 or SOMETHING right now. We've got a little bit of wiggle room. But I kind of want to get this lynch right.
I don't know why I'm feeling hesitant to vote HiroPro. I found him scummy earlier based on his play. I'm finding the lack of actions hitting him to be disturbing. But it feels ... off. The damage that he's claimed and not claimed seem like a weird set of hoops to jump through if you're scum.
Why claim no damage from hopeless1der if you actually got hit, or why claim no damage if you didn't get hit but you know he's town and so telling the truth?
Why claim damage N3 if you didn't take any? If you did take damage, where'd it come from? Mattchew hit Dirkzor that night, so it's not even like some sort of random retargeting could have ended in Mattchew hitting Hiro there.
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Voting hiro as well. Need to stop being so paranoid once games go late, my reads always get mushy and I suspect everybody.
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That's where a bunch of us are it seems. What poor timing.
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On September 03 2012 05:20 HiroPro wrote: hm, looks like I'm going to die. At this point, Kenpachi has to be scum I guess. I never used my second ability.
Sorry about the effort I've put into this game. I really did think the game was decided after night 1, even if the thread discussion was bad. Wat.
Can't tell if trying to save self or serious.
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This is the part where you probably tell us what it is
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Bio never said there weren't additional powers.
On September 01 2012 04:09 BioSC wrote: I created the slowpoke role, Hiro claimed the pokemon, but not the role as of yet. I can confirm that it doesn't have any KP, though. (unless of course its scum)
Hmmmmmmmmmmmm.
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No. Sorry Hiro. You felt off early, and are either the target of a really nice setup or else are scum here.
I don't even care about not claiming the second power at this point, it's troubling that you've been a black hole for town and maybe town KP.
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On September 03 2012 05:59 HiroPro wrote:Show nested quote +On September 03 2012 05:52 austinmcc wrote: No. Sorry Hiro. You felt off early
sigh. This is a really dumb reason... When put like that, yes. But I explained it more fully earlier.
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Any votes or actions BY him. So just his vote. Also, really hoping that BioSC didn't make that part of his role and that's just hosts having fun.
gg hiro.
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Hopefully when the international ends we'll get more discussion overnight.
Right now I'm thinking I will hide instead of shooting. That way we'll have 1 or 2 medic protects for a small amount of townies, maybe we can block scum KP again. That way we'd have another pikachu shot and a lynch, hopefully hit scum with one or both, and things will be a little more clear tomorrow night. If I missed tonight, that would be both a townie down AND a vote down tomorrow because I lost my vote for the day after shooting, and I don't really want to risk that.
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Question for folks: how are you feeling about Drazerk?
He's gotten very active since scum numbers dropped. Early he was looking for KP, recently he's been collecting role information (Although so have I, but the moment I evolved he wanted to know what happened and whether I could still hide, etc.).
I've not played with him, but afaik he's the sort of player who would be willing to get active as scum, do things that don't make perfect sense from a scum perspective, just to create confusion and buy time to get to late game?
He's one of a small amount of folks we don't know the entire role of. Grush, Drazerk, and I have all claimed roles without a creator to back it up. Most other players have had part if not all of their roles revealed.
I'm still worried about the .25 KP I took N3. I mucked up the earlier numbers, kind of wanted to see what would come out of it. Basically, I take 1/2 damage from fire/water/electric/grass. We haven't had a single person alive claim a .25 KP source of damage, and Mattchew's shot was accounted for (Hit Dirk).
Basically, I either was or wasn't protected from 1 KP by Zephirdd that night.
Any fire or electric source of damage would have the .5 KP bonus from type matching. That screws up the math on taking damage from a fire or electric source. If I was only hit by fire/electric, either a creator made a 0 KP role (0 + .5 bonus)*1/2 and zephirdd didn't protect, OR I got hit by 1 normal KP and .5 fire/electric/water/grass with a protect (again, would require a 0 KP role if fire or electric), OR I got hit with 2.5 fire/electric/water/grass with a protect.
But Mattchew's shot is accounted for, we have no claimed fire pokemon left. I'm willing to believe Grush is geodude since the OP includes rock types but we haven't seen any, and he seems like one of the pokemon you'd put in a game like this (almost all the well-known generation 1 pokemon seem to be here).
Which leaves me thinking that the KP, at least partially, came from a water or grass source. Water and grass wouldn't get the KP boost, so you could make a .5 KP water or grass attack. But we ain't got no watery pokemans left. However, we have a single grass pokemans. Can anyone else give me a possible way that I took .25 KP N3 that doesn't involve Drazerk being scum?
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That's true, we don't know how scum kp works. But:
On August 11 2012 05:03 GreYMisT wrote: Also the Mafia are required to select a player(s) to carry out their Night Kill(s). This KP Will be effected by type effectiveness. [/blue][/b]
We know they have kill(s). We know the kill is effected by type effectiveness. It seems less likely to me that mafia chooses someone to carry out the NK, who then chooses what type to do NK damage with, and more likely that the chosen person performs the NK as their type.
We assume we've got 6 killable folks, and that's probably true. Grush may or may not be killable. Heck, YOU may or may not be killable. And I can be unkillable if I don't NK. I don't think Mattchew is scum, but there's always a chance despite Wiggles's check. And yeah, Mattchew can't kill you in one shot.
I was sitting around all yesterday thinking this, but spent my time watching the international and lynching townies instead. I'm just a little worried about the number of professed "problems" we've got left, in players that town generally wants to clear out before this stage of the game. I still actually do have a town read on Grush...I think? But it's not like I can be sure there, and that leaves me with a couple players that are very difficult to get a read on, as well as a few that aren't doing much playing.
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It sounds pretty not possible.
"It sure does!" said the rest of town... "It sure doesn't!" said the rest of town...
Anyone? Cuz I don't want to shoot without some discussion here, and right now I'll stick to hiding and waiting another night.
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Tooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooown. Where are yoooooooooooooouuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu?
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Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo. gg all.
Wiggles, I could absolutely be wrong about what I think of when I think "meta." Happy to talk about it postgame if we want to make that a topic of conversation, or maybe it should be in the general discussion, could be helpful.
A lot my pushing you was "So many others are pushing him that I have town reads on" + the things that you were active about + some respect for your defense post in LV. I got pretty convinced, and anything you said that would change my mind just reminded me of LV, so I discounted it. I know that "inactive in LV:scum::inactive here:scum" isn't good logic, but I felt like I was considering more than just that.
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Aye, thanks for hosting. I wasn't even around for part of it and it was still quite fun and also seemed like a lot of work. Big thanks.
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Jingle, I think you've got the wrong end of this one.
Go read Grush's filter again. There's trolling in there. But there are a decent number of reads, reasons, some thoughts just dropped into the thread, that really feel towny and were helpful.
With you, it felt like the moment you got accused you just shut down. You'd either OMGUS or refuse to participate. All that electrocution stuff, where we had an electric flavor kill and you were one of two electric pokemon, so had to be a POSSIBILITY. But at the slightest hint that you might have done it, you shut done, left thread, and decided not to play. Doing that was more anti-town than anything Grush did this game, imo.
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If you decide someone "making an effort" = scum for ANYONE, then you've just written that person off entirely. Either they do nothing (and are scummy for it most likely) or they're scum for helping. Actually holding that notion means than in the majority of games, when they're town, you're going to read them wrong. Plus, you come off like a giant asshole in posting about reading someone because of that.
You carried that idea the ENTIRE game, even after he flipped, saying he should have warned the thread he'd be playing "against meta." That's both ridiculous AND if you're so concerned about meta, then you know that the time he was scum he tried to play the same as he does when town.
And I'm not talking about Drazerk when I talk about you OMGUSing. Here's you on Mementoss
On August 29 2012 03:24 JingleHell wrote: I wasn't finding him scummy, until he decided to make this absurd attack on me that makes less sense than anything posted since the last time Grush or Misder talked.
It doesn't match the rest of his play this game particularly, which makes me think it's got an ulterior motive. Hence why I'm going to put together a case.
Here's you finding Dirk scummy after he gets into it with you:On August 29 2012 03:33 JingleHell wrote: Oh look, twisting my words again. Right now, people I'm seeing as potentially scummy are people who are saying shit that doesn't make any sense from any rational town motive. In your case, twisting my words, in Memen's case, it's his sudden backtrack on the townieness of my claim.
(Don't forget at the end of the day, he was strongly supporting how townie my claim was. Now he's seeing tons of scum motive in my keeping it quiet for the sake of being able to use it the same way as needed.)
You never decided to call me outright scum, but kept playing around with it. Heck, I don't see you OMGUS drazerk at any point.
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On September 10 2012 09:01 JingleHell wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2012 08:40 marvellosity wrote: Jingle, take it as a valid criticism of your play. You always go nuts when someone wafts suspicion in your direction, and it's almost never productive. It'd be a better criticism of my play if he wasn't basing it off of me responding to half baked accusations. The doneness of the accusations doesn't matter at all. There are going to be half- and otherwise-baked accusations thrown around all game long. At everyone.
Like...I'm not even saying that you responded scummily. It's more that if your response is to OMGUS any accusation, then I'm going to discount your reads. If your response is to shut down and refuse to do anything but vote one guy because he's being productive, I'm going to discount your reads. It wouldn't even matter if you had nailed every scum in the game because they all happened to call you out, you had no thread presence, no pull, and I wasn't going to vote for your targets, and am guessing others wouldn't either.
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