On August 20 2012 09:07 grush57 wrote: Anyways, no scum would be retarded enough to be this active early. If anything they would be in a position asking the questions while not doing anything themselves like drazerk(or anyone else really) However, the only way to prove your innocence is to catch scum. U C?
The key to winning on either side is thread presence
This will never ever ever change.
Well also that isn't true always. Alot of games scum just lurks and town just kills itself.
Fine in games where towns are actually competent the key to winning is thread presence
Well see I always have read the thread and I always survive using starsenses :D. Maybe when I flip town this game it will be a true indicator of me being town :D. But yeah, Jingle is scum. BioSC seems scummy too.
Okay so, I get banned, then People are all up in Drazerk's face because he is telling everybody to kill him and being stupid with that attitude. Still, I think he is town. Then the town switched to Dirkzor, I don't think he is scum either, he is helping out and responding. Hopeless1dr ninja votes, he is scum. People calling out Kurumi for being scummy, I agree. Toad(jk, lol idk) shoots VE, people get on VE's chain for policy lynching. NO ONE IS UP IN JINGLE'S GRILL ABOUT HIM WANTING TO POLICY LYNCH ME:O. Also I think Hiropro? Heist? made a post calling out Jingle which is good cuz he is scum. Then it's like Zephirrid(null on him, he has been getting scummier the longer the game has been going so far) and imallison(who I thought was a noob townie) and dirkzor(I think he is town aswell). End up lynching a townie and thats about where we were at.
So my scum list is: JingleHell(SCUMSCUMSCUM) Hopeless1dr(ninja vote, scum) Maybe BioSC(I don't even know why but he is scum)
On August 22 2012 10:56 JingleHell wrote: Sorry my activity has been shit. My guts have been acting up, which has had me not interested in thinking much. Occupational hazard of crohn's.
Anyways, I'm not comfortable with the people looking at VE because he's playing differently. He took a LOT of crap in Mad Men for his play, some based on meta. If a lot of people want him to play differently, and he's tired of being looked at the way he is, he might just try to play differently.
I still like the idea of lynching Grush in absence of real reads, but maybe that's just a combination of me being vindictive and him being Grush. If we have a better target, obviously that would nullify it anyways.
On August 22 2012 10:56 JingleHell wrote: Sorry my activity has been shit. My guts have been acting up, which has had me not interested in thinking much. Occupational hazard of crohn's.
Anyways, I'm not comfortable with the people looking at VE because he's playing differently. He took a LOT of crap in Mad Men for his play, some based on meta. If a lot of people want him to play differently, and he's tired of being looked at the way he is, he might just try to play differently.
I still like the idea of lynching Grush in absence of real reads, but maybe that's just a combination of me being vindictive and him being Grush. If we have a better target, obviously that would nullify it anyways.
YOU DONT ANSWER FOR VE ACTIONS, VE DOES.
You're trying to answer for my actions, you're saying it's scummy to want to policy lynch a useless poster (you), when I actually just don't want to read your posts.
This game is all about reading intentions. Sometimes that leads to a defense. Tough luck.
lol. no. You're assuming he's playing differently because he got butthurt. I'm saying that your scum. Different things
On August 22 2012 10:58 JingleHell wrote: EBWOP Grush snuck that in. If anyone I haven't suggested as a policy lynch wants to make a case against me that doesn't revolve around wanting to not read Grush's posts, I'll answer. His accusations are somewhere between a bad joke without a punchline and a half-assed OMGUS anyways.
On August 22 2012 10:58 JingleHell wrote: EBWOP Grush snuck that in. If anyone I haven't suggested as a policy lynch wants to make a case against me that doesn't revolve around wanting to not read Grush's posts, I'll answer. His accusations are somewhere between a bad joke without a punchline and a half-assed OMGUS anyways.
K insult instead of answering :D
How have I not answered? You think I'm scum because I want you gone...
...explaining why I want you gone is all the answer needed, right? And if an honest evaluation of your play seems insulting, there's nothing anti-town about wanting you dead. Hence, not scummy. You deserve (and will receive) no further explanation unless you can make a case.
On August 22 2012 10:58 JingleHell wrote: EBWOP Grush snuck that in. If anyone I haven't suggested as a policy lynch wants to make a case against me that doesn't revolve around wanting to not read Grush's posts, I'll answer. His accusations are somewhere between a bad joke without a punchline and a half-assed OMGUS anyways.
K insult instead of answering :D
How have I not answered? You think I'm scum because I want you gone...
...explaining why I want you gone is all the answer needed, right? And if an honest evaluation of your play seems insulting, there's nothing anti-town about wanting you dead. Hence, not scummy. You deserve (and will receive) no further explanation unless you can make a case.
See, your lynching me because you think I'm a bad player, not because I'm acting scummy. THEREFORE SCUM. The SCUM ARE DEAD. THE SCUM ARE DEAD. WE USED POISONOUS LYNCHES. WE LYNCHED THEIR ASSES.
On August 22 2012 10:55 grush57 wrote: Okay so, I get banned, then People are all up in Drazerk's face because he is telling everybody to kill him and being stupid with that attitude. Still, I think he is town. Then the town switched to Dirkzor, I don't think he is scum either, he is helping out and responding. Hopeless1dr ninja votes, he is scum. People calling out Kurumi for being scummy, I agree. Toad(jk, lol idk) shoots VE, people get on VE's chain for policy lynching. NO ONE IS UP IN JINGLE'S GRILL ABOUT HIM WANTING TO POLICY LYNCH ME:O. Also I think Hiropro? Heist? made a post calling out Jingle which is good cuz he is scum. Then it's like Zephirrid(null on him, he has been getting scummier the longer the game has been going so far) and imallison(who I thought was a noob townie) and dirkzor(I think he is town aswell). End up lynching a townie and thats about where we were at.
So my scum list is: JingleHell(SCUMSCUMSCUM) Hopeless1dr(ninja vote, scum) Maybe BioSC(I don't even know why but he is scum)
How is dirk helping? I would like a detailed response on that.
I will agree that hopeless is likely scum at this point though.
Well he's actually posting unlike Hopeless. Hmm, gimme a sec.
On August 22 2012 10:55 grush57 wrote: Okay so, I get banned, then People are all up in Drazerk's face because he is telling everybody to kill him and being stupid with that attitude. Still, I think he is town. Then the town switched to Dirkzor, I don't think he is scum either, he is helping out and responding. Hopeless1dr ninja votes, he is scum. People calling out Kurumi for being scummy, I agree. Toad(jk, lol idk) shoots VE, people get on VE's chain for policy lynching. NO ONE IS UP IN JINGLE'S GRILL ABOUT HIM WANTING TO POLICY LYNCH ME:O. Also I think Hiropro? Heist? made a post calling out Jingle which is good cuz he is scum. Then it's like Zephirrid(null on him, he has been getting scummier the longer the game has been going so far) and imallison(who I thought was a noob townie) and dirkzor(I think he is town aswell). End up lynching a townie and thats about where we were at.
So my scum list is: JingleHell(SCUMSCUMSCUM) Hopeless1dr(ninja vote, scum) Maybe BioSC(I don't even know why but he is scum)
How is dirk helping? I would like a detailed response on that.
I will agree that hopeless is likely scum at this point though.
Well I mean he's posting cases and defending himself and contributing. I don't know why he was the closest to being lynched.
On August 21 2012 17:39 Dirkzor wrote: Hey VE!? Why all of a sudden do you think people should vote me? You have made no mention of this earlier... Perfect time to take pressure off of yourself by adding another subject for scrutiny. A subject with already some focus from BC.
If you find me scummy post why! Don't throw a ball up in the air for some townie to catch and throw. Thats what scummy people do...
Same thing can be said about your Drazerk turn around. S&B added nothing new to the case but now its a good case whereas before is was bad?
On August 21 2012 17:15 VisceraEyes wrote: @Wiggles I don't like where your vote is right now. I think it would be more useful elsewhere. Like Drazerk or Dirkzor. I can agree that the grush wagon isn't going anywhere, but I DISAGREE that my reasoning is a "cop-out" or that what I'm doing is "anti-town". I get that you think I don't care about finding scum, but I think you'll find that you're mistaken.
Haha. Its the biggest cop-out ever. And I don't want to wait for you to show that you want to find scum. I want you to try and find scum now. And you haven't. Not just a little?
##Vote VE
Hilariously, you're simply adding your vote to a preexisting wagon without adding anything new yourself as well.
At any rate, a VE lynch isn't happening today so I suggest you try and hide your vote elsewhere.
On August 21 2012 19:44 VisceraEyes wrote: So should I go ahead and claim now? Or what...because typically when I reach this point it's pretty much GG for me.
Dirkzor is scum because he keeps sheeping you SnB, while trying to pass that off as contribution. He hasn't added anything of substance to the game, and while Bugs says that I've done nothing of significance, I'd argue that my attempt at policy-lynching grush counts as a significant thread action.
I agree with the case on Drazerk now that you've deWIFOM'd it - when I read it through the first time, it looked like I was reading a Pokemon card-creator's journal...it didn't look like a case at all. But I get what you were saying now and I agree that he looks scummy for it.
There’s a disconnect here. VE’s initial defense against Dirkzor’s vote is basically, there’s no possible way I’m getting lynched, but couple posts later of back and forth with Dirkzor, he claims he should give up. It seems like because he couldn’t get Dirkzor off his back, he goes for the rage tactic. I also
However, this is the only thing that really bothers me from VE. The reasons why people are voting VE are pretty sketch. Pushing for a policy lynch against someone who cannot defend himself is anti-town, but the way that VE is convinced that it is a good move convinces me that he’s not scum. And + Show Spoiler +
On August 21 2012 16:50 strongandbig wrote:
Oh and I just saw this little gem while I was reading the thread:
On August 21 2012 14:03 VisceraEyes wrote: Something feels off about this game.
Why aren't more people jumping my shit for the policy lynch talk? I admit - it's a GREAT idea. But like...I expected fully to be insta-voted by at least 4 people.
Wiggles, where do you stand on a grush lynch? You put forth what I feel is a decent D1 case on the guy and do NOT punctuate it with a vote. And then accuse BC of...what, making generalized blanket statements designed to "appear pro-town", while you devolve into feeding the trolls? I am disappoint, son.
"Hey guys! You're not paying all that much attention yet to this anti-town thing I did so it's a good time for me to bring up that I know it's anti-town and I was fishing for reactions! Oh but also I still support the anti-town thing but it's actually pro-town now, so don't go accusing me of changing my position!"
##unvote: Drazerk ##vote: VE
vote is a tool man
– why would VE, as scum, want to call into attention that it’s a plan that no one would like?
Also, at least he’s being more useful (zeph case, activity) than some other people.
I’m not convinced that VE is scum. I find this a bit more interesting (not really on VE): + Show Spoiler +
On August 20 2012 12:44 JingleHell wrote: Whee, this is seeming insane. On the plus side, Grush has the best icon I've ever seen him with now. And if he avoids a modkill, we should lynch him. Because let's face it. He's been active and not sounded like he was washing down speed with gasoline, which doesn't fit his town meta at all.
We're not lynching anyone for meta reasons
Ignoring the part where you're not synonymous with we, I can think of other reasons to lynch Grush, like the fact that it reduces the number of posts that sound like they were made by Grush. Which is a benefit in and of itself.
Do you have a candidate to suggest? Or are you stifling discussion for a reason that isn't scummy?
I'm actually down with policy-lynching grush. This is 100% super serious.
JingleHell also wanted to lynch grush. However, he never actually voted for him and once VE got all this flak about policy lynching, he doesn’t back VE up nor say anything about it ever again. He then switches votes on imallinson. I don’t like this at all. FOS: JingleHell
On imallinson: I do agree with the original case that imallinson’s first couple posts are meh at best + Show Spoiler [WBG’s case] +
On August 21 2012 09:30 wherebugsgo wrote: yeah Mattchew, I don't have as much time as I normally do. I'm going to try not to rage if something retarded happens (like in BC's game) but I'm also hosting AoK mafia which is taking quite a lot more time than expected.
I don't like imallinson and I would be fine with lynching him today. If you all would kindly take a glance at his posts, in most of them he fails to take a strong opinion and defers his own stances to the opinions of others. For example:
On August 21 2012 08:47 VisceraEyes wrote: I'm reading AND care Mattchew, care to elaborate on why you think otherwise?
cause you haven't sunk your teeth into a real candidate with reason yet, you haven't picked a fight, you also havent explained why you havent done the previously mentioned things. you usually do atleast 1 of these things as town
Yeah, this sounds like you as town too. The reason I haven't "sunk my teeth into a candidate" yet is because there are no real candidates for me to choose from. Draz is like the only one and I don't like the fact that a bandwagon built on the BS case SnB put forth. It's a shitty case and I don't like the smell of the bandwagon that formed from it...so I'm not supporting it presently.
My grush wagon could use some help though, if you're interested. It's guaranteed to rid the game of an anti-town poster and gosh, it might even net us a scum. What do ya say?
It feels kind of wrong lynching someone who can't defend himself. I've never played a game with him before, is he normally this spammy and terrible in his posting?
The only real thing he's contributed is that he thinks people aren't thinking "outside of the box" enough with respect to roles (about the multiple power thing). However, that has nothing to do with finding scum and he himself admits its pretty much not of any help:
On August 21 2012 07:39 imallinson wrote: I've been out all day so I apologise for not posting earlier.
One thing I noticed, between the spam, is a hell of a lot of role discussion, talk about kp, etc. I think everyone has missed a very important point in all this. These are pokemon we are dealing with and last I checked most of them have more than one power. Because this is PTP it wouldn't surprise me if most people did have more than one power. Add to that the fact that all the role talk has been about standard mafia roles it seems like no one is really thinking outside the box on the roles. The real question is do they think it's the case a not talking about it for strategic reasons. I'm not a fan of misdirection in mafia from a town perspective because it normally only serves to make scum hunting harder.
Most roles can be equated to standard mafia roles.
You can deal KP? Your a vig role. You can protect? medic role. You can edit your posts? Okay, this one doesn't exist.
Short of everyone claiming what role they created (Which might be useful, but a great way for scum to fuck with us), we have to use terms that everyone else will understand. Once we get through a round of Night actions, (assuming decon\greymist use the ability names) we'd be able to refer to specifics.
I didn't really mean calling roles different names just because of PTP. I'm perfectly fine calling KP role vig, protect role medic and so on. I'm talking about roles that would never be in a normal game of mafia and thus don't have a standard name. I'm pretty the role I created doesn't fit into any normal mafia role and I'm sure there a lot of other cases like that.
As for role calling I think it's a terrible idea, especially in PTP because you can make up a fake role for yourself just as easily as the role you created for someone else.
I do agree with you that things should become clearer after night 1 because we will at least get some info on the roles that are in play.
But how do your thoughts on roles and PTP mechanics help us catch scum?
It doesn't really, I'm just pointing out a big missing piece in all the role talk so far. Honestly I don't think role talk day 1 will be helpful in this set up.
On August 21 2012 08:12 Drazerk wrote:
On August 21 2012 08:05 wherebugsgo wrote:
On August 20 2012 10:17 Drazerk wrote: I'm with wiggles there are super powers out there that prey on certain information being known (Steamship 4 shot sniper comes to mind)
So the following -
No pokemon names No Type No role information No claiming medic to save scum
Anyone who does this will probably just be shot down or turned green
On August 20 2012 21:30 Drazerk wrote: Also to go one step further
I'm a bug type so fire / flying / rock types - Bring it
Herp derp?
I don't know if anyone else noticed this (I have to reread some of what I missed) but I saw this and figured it has to be pointed out.
Unfortunately it's Drazerk, so to be completely honest my read of Drazerk doesn't change here.
I'm an exception to my own rule because at some point I need to be taken down for the good of the town
But is that point now?
So if it's not going to be helpful why is he spending his time pointing that out instead of trying to find scum?
In addition, note his vague language, his meek attitude, and his overall "hide and say a few noncontroversial things and hope no one notices me" style. All of these things are great ways for scum to blend in.
##vote imallinson
. However, couple posts after this case convinces me that he just had a rough start. He attacks strongandbig, one of the few people I would see scum actually attacking as he could have easily hopped on a wagon or picked someone that hasn’t posted so far. However, he chooses someone that no one has attacked yet. Even though he even admits his case is weak, the fact that he even tried is enough.
On August 21 2012 22:19 imallinson wrote: The other thing I noticed about what Dirk said about my previous games is that he seems to agree fairly strongly with my being scum, even adding his own argument against me (the meta stuff) but doesn't actually back it up with a vote. This looks a lot like someone trying to push the vote onto an easy target but not actually committing to it himself.
And this post I like as well.
Defending VE I also see as a towntell cause even though he’s being attacked, he’s aware of what’s happening around him and reacting.
On Dirkzor: I find that he’s very defensive when attacked by both BC and VE + Show Spoiler +
On August 21 2012 07:14 VisceraEyes wrote: If there's no support for it, then I'll entertain the cases put forth. There isn't much more to say on the matter, and anyone who dwells on this should be put under scrutiny. It's a vote like any other vote, I've given my reasoning for it - it's up to you guys to convince me that your read on random player is better than my seething hatred for grush' playstyle. I can tell you without a doubt that attempting to bully me for it is not going to work.
Posted again because you apparently missed it Toad.
The case on Kurumi is that he's Kurumi. The case on Draz is inflated WIFOMY bullshit that consists mostly of setup speculation. The case on BC is...that he said the same thing as you? Last time I checked, agreeing with someone isn't a scumtell, so until he elaborates on his read of Dirk I'm reserving judgement on BC.
I'm not reluctant to talk about my thoughts, I just don't have many yet. If this doesn't satisfy you, then my sincerest of apologies. Hopefully my future contributions are up to your standards.
Simple, he basically said he didn't want to be terrible about how he entered the thread. He then jumps on the bandwagon of the day of that time by making a large "say nothing post" as his post really says jack shit aside from talking about the fake solar beam.
Its a space filler post on the person with the largest bit of heat on them that offers no new information or really anything of note at all. Why spend time making a post look large if you aren't going to put content with it. Since then he has had 1 post of complete apathy of "not wanting to read this garbage" that he is in no way helping to solve.
Seems pretty open shut to me atm.
A "say nothing post"? I basicly had the samw worries that S&B did in his big case against Drazerk. My post was just completely crap at explaining my problem with drazerk since it was all hunches and feelings. The way I entered was just a punch towards those entering with a town claim which is basicly useless and imo a complete stupid way to enter a thread.
While I agree that Drazerk was the biggest focus point during the first part of D1, the solar beam thingy wasn't mentioned in the 2-3 pages before I posted so I brought it up again because it was the only thing worth mentioning.
On August 21 2012 17:39 Dirkzor wrote: Hey VE!? Why all of a sudden do you think people should vote me? You have made no mention of this earlier... Perfect time to take pressure off of yourself by adding another subject for scrutiny. A subject with already some focus from BC.
If you find me scummy post why! Don't throw a ball up in the air for some townie to catch and throw. Thats what scummy people do...
Same thing can be said about your Drazerk turn around. S&B added nothing new to the case but now its a good case whereas before is was bad?
On August 21 2012 17:15 VisceraEyes wrote: @Wiggles I don't like where your vote is right now. I think it would be more useful elsewhere. Like Drazerk or Dirkzor. I can agree that the grush wagon isn't going anywhere, but I DISAGREE that my reasoning is a "cop-out" or that what I'm doing is "anti-town". I get that you think I don't care about finding scum, but I think you'll find that you're mistaken.
Haha. Its the biggest cop-out ever. And I don't want to wait for you to show that you want to find scum. I want you to try and find scum now. And you haven't. Not just a little?
##Vote VE
as an OMGUS vote. Even though he did express suspicion on VE before, he only put his vote on VE after he realized VE was going after him too. I believe that the only reason why he went for VE over BC is that VE was an easier target to attack, seeing how Wiggles and strongandbig both voted for VE couple posts before.
Even though it could have been an honest mistake that Dirkzor really did read the wrong guy, that doesn’t make him town. I would say that he just hastily put that up just to gain some towncred by using meta, which half the time doesn’t even work anyways (which I’m sure he realizes if he actually was town/putting a real case on allinson).
I would rather see Dirkzor get lynched over allinson. ##Vote: Dirkzor
On the rest: Or we can just get rid of Drazerk. He’s literally just spamming. Either he’s a crazy town trying to draw reactions or he’s scum trying to cause chaos. I choose the latter.
The meowth day-vig hit is interesting cause it was on VE. Don’t think there’s much to say though, as it could have easily come from town as scum.
And I haven’t forgotten about the four people that entered breadcrumbing blue, though that will have to wait til next time. It’s most likely either Kenpachi or Mattchew though.
EPT
