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Dwarf Fortress Mini Mafia - Page 9

Forum Index > TL Mafia
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marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
August 07 2012 21:28 GMT
#161
that's fucking ridiculous. so you have one setup - cop, which is already by far the most powerful

then you neuter the other two setups completely by denying watcher/tracker of like 90% of their power.

wtf is that about.
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
ShiaoPi
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
TAIWAN NUMBAH WAN5956 Posts
August 07 2012 21:28 GMT
#162
@risk:
It's more the general concept of Hiro to use a tracker claim as means of confirming town that I am against, not against claiming in general, but scum can easily counterclaim so it won't work that way.
LiquidDota Staff@TW_ShiaoPi
TL+ Member
risk.nuke
Profile Joined May 2010
Sweden2825 Posts
August 07 2012 21:30 GMT
#163
On August 08 2012 06:28 ShiaoPi wrote:
@risk:
It's more the general concept of Hiro to use a tracker claim as means of confirming town that I am against, not against claiming in general, but scum can easily counterclaim so it won't work that way.

Scum most likely won't claim if he does it day 1 or 2.
Neo.G Soulkey, Best, firebathero. // http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/index.php?show_part=31
ShiaoPi
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
TAIWAN NUMBAH WAN5956 Posts
August 07 2012 21:36 GMT
#164
While it would be sub-optimal play for scum to trade 1 for 1 that early, you cannot dismiss the possibility.

On the other hand I could see it working out for the better if he claims as early as you suggest. He would leave scum fishing for the doc between the other townies.
LiquidDota Staff@TW_ShiaoPi
TL+ Member
Forumite
Profile Joined February 2011
Sweden3280 Posts
August 07 2012 21:37 GMT
#165
On August 08 2012 06:15 HiroPro wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 08 2012 06:03 Forumite wrote:
On August 08 2012 04:28 HiroPro wrote:
Eh I'd only ever consider double lynching in sciberbia's 3/1 scenario (or a 2/1 if it ever comes up). Anywhere else I don't see the benefit.

Thoughts on using Tracker as an innocent child style role instead (if we have one)? It's fairly worthless in this setup since it can only track medic/RB and mafia will know whether or not a tracker is present.

You mean claim, and if counterclaimed (by scum or the real tracker) we kill them both?

I don´t think it´s a good plan. A Tracker is not as good as a DT, but he´s not useless. An innocent child will just get killed if he claims D1. The Tracker can track the one doing the nightkill and the roleblocker, and know if his target is a Doc (no roleblock claim and survives), so basically a DT that misses the one scum that does nothing.

Can scum send the roleblocker to perform the nightkill AND roleblock even when there are other goblins alive, thereby reducing the number of people at risk of being Tracked?
(Only usefull in a Tracker+Doc setup, but still)


Tracker doesn't track night kills. And if it's a setup with a tracker, there's a good chance scum would hold their RBs.
How do you know the Tracker doesn´t track scum nightkills?

On August 08 2012 06:08 marvellosity wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 08 2012 06:07 Forumite wrote:
On August 08 2012 05:38 prplhz wrote:
Hey didn't read thread yet can anybody tell me who is scum?

Yay, prplhz!

ShiaoPi looks like scum, just read the few introposts.


don't be insidious, explain why you find them scummy or shut up about it.
Okay. It´s based on the first post, quoted below:
On August 08 2012 00:08 ShiaoPi wrote:
Well well, let's get started!
Skip policytalking, we all know lurkers suck, you should not lie etc. etc. LiquidTomb's fallen demand justice, so let's go hammer some goblins.

When I read that I see someone who is rushing a greeting to show that he´s here, doesn´t say anything on his own views and wants to shut down policydiscussion. It´s the very first post of the game, and he wants us to NOT talk about the only thing there is to talk about.
:3
Forumite
Profile Joined February 2011
Sweden3280 Posts
August 07 2012 21:40 GMT
#166
Nevermind about Tracker.

I agree with marvellosity, not tracking nightkills make the Tracker and Watcher too weak.
:3
ShiaoPi
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
TAIWAN NUMBAH WAN5956 Posts
August 07 2012 21:42 GMT
#167
@Forumite:
check the first page and the post risk linked, it's right there. Factional actions don't get tracked/watched.

On your accusation (or rather opinion, it feels rather weak to me):
I wanted to get started, so I posted, probably should have proofread it to avoid misunderstandings like this one. I am not against shutting down policytalk completely, I have already done some of it myslef by now. I was more stating the intent to not go overboard with it, since scumhunting is our priority.
As you are doing it already, looks like my wish was granted, although on the wrong target
LiquidDota Staff@TW_ShiaoPi
TL+ Member
prplhz
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Denmark8045 Posts
August 07 2012 21:43 GMT
#168
Too weak?

Callign ShiaoPi out for nothing and now you are actually complaining about the setup, in a game that already started. What exactly are you trying to do?
http://i.imgur.com/M7t7egx.png
HiroPro
Profile Joined March 2012
United States2624 Posts
August 07 2012 21:49 GMT
#169
watcher tracks night kills - look at sciberbia's question right after that.

Forumite, what do you make of the fact that Shiao has been willing to discuss the setup right after that?
ShiaoPi
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
TAIWAN NUMBAH WAN5956 Posts
August 07 2012 21:52 GMT
#170
Just saw that as well. Seems like watcher has some higher chance to get a check in
LiquidDota Staff@TW_ShiaoPi
TL+ Member
Forumite
Profile Joined February 2011
Sweden3280 Posts
August 07 2012 22:00 GMT
#171
On August 08 2012 06:43 prplhz wrote:
Too weak?

Callign ShiaoPi out for nothing and now you are actually complaining about the setup, in a game that already started. What exactly are you trying to do?

Would you accept "Create discussion"?

My assumptions on Tracker and Watcher was that they can track/watch for the nightkill. That would still give them false positive results from the Doctor, but leave 2 scum who they can find, not as many as the DT but decent. If they can´t see the nightkill being delivered then the roles are much weaker, so it came as a bit of a shock.

On ShiaoPi, I wanted to see if my scumsenses were working after my break with a quick read. No, I´m not convinced he´s scum.
:3
sciberbia
Profile Joined April 2011
United States1359 Posts
August 07 2012 23:24 GMT
#172
Just got home and I'm about to reread and form some preliminary reads. Just wanted to clear some things up about the setup (you guys would do well to read my pregame posts):

On August 08 2012 00:53 marvellosity wrote:
hum, Can mafia roleblocker roleblock and kill, or must the duties be separated?
On August 08 2012 06:03 Forumite wrote:
Can scum send the roleblocker to perform the nightkill AND roleblock even when there are other goblins alive, thereby reducing the number of people at risk of being Tracked?
The roleblocker is allowed to both RB and NK in the same night. See here: + Show Spoiler +
On August 05 2012 16:59 Bluelightz wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 05 2012 15:43 sciberbia wrote:

...
Can the scum roleblocker both carry out a kill and roleblock in the same night?
...



...
Yes.
...



However, keep in mind that tracker cannot track night kills.

On August 08 2012 06:24 risk.nuke wrote:
Bluelightz, what's the point of having adesignated mafia killer when it's completely uneffected by town roles?
If the watcher is watching the person who dies, the watcher will know who killed him. See here:+ Show Spoiler +

On August 05 2012 17:36 Bluelightz wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 05 2012 17:28 sciberbia wrote:
On August 05 2012 16:59 Bluelightz wrote:
Tracker & Watcher show's role block action as they track role actions and not factional actions.

So let's hypothetically say that I am a mafia goon and on N1 I carry out the mafia night kill on Keirathi.

If the tracker was tracking sciberbia, will he see that sciberbia visited Keirathi?
If the watcher was watching Keirathi, will he see that sciberbia visited Keirathi?



Tracker finds nothing. Watcher finds that Keirathi was visited by sciberbia.



On August 08 2012 06:15 HiroPro wrote:
Tracker doesn't track night kills. And if it's a setup with a tracker, there's a good chance scum would hold their RBs.
On August 08 2012 06:28 marvellosity wrote:
that's fucking ridiculous. so you have one setup - cop, which is already by far the most powerful

then you neuter the other two setups completely by denying watcher/tracker of like 90% of their power.

wtf is that about.
Yes, tracker is almost laughably bad. Cop >>> watcher >>> tracker. But we're stuck with whatever we've got.
Bluelightz
Profile Blog Joined December 2011
Indonesia2463 Posts
August 07 2012 23:28 GMT
#173
Agh. Clarifying nao. Watcher tracks everything that visits his target, while tracker tracks role actions. Yes one person can both rb/kill in 1 night
Roses Are Red, Violets Are Blue, Radiation Is Good Because Nuclear bombs go BOOM | I love TL Mafia! ♥ http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/index.php?show_part=31 ♥| Mvp is most boss
Custos Luna
Profile Joined August 2012
United States96 Posts
August 07 2012 23:30 GMT
#174
Watcher tracks and Tracker watches. got it
We are the guardians of the moon, foes to the sun. Embrace the heresy.
risk.nuke
Profile Joined May 2010
Sweden2825 Posts
August 07 2012 23:38 GMT
#175
On August 08 2012 08:28 Bluelightz wrote:
Agh. Clarifying nao. Watcher tracks everything that visits his target, while tracker tracks role actions. Yes one person can both rb/kill in 1 night

Okey, I'm still not sure but I'm starting to lean that if we have a tracker (which we probably don't have if we're lucky) he should claim. At first I thought hiros suggestion was dumb as crap but thinking about it more and including things that hiro probably didn't even realise I'm starting to feel this might be the best action. I think he should claim Day 3 or preferably during night 2. Just before the daypost. (He could put some effort into making sure he'll be around for that time) but otherwise day 3 will be fine.

thoughts?
Neo.G Soulkey, Best, firebathero. // http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/index.php?show_part=31
DoYouHas
Profile Joined November 2008
United States1140 Posts
August 07 2012 23:40 GMT
#176
So I was thinking through how a double-lynch would actually play out (because I instinctively disagreed with forumite that we should avoid them) and here is where I got. By attempting to create a double lynch we would actually be taking the power from the hands of the lynchers and putting it in the hands of those being lynched. The only situation where it would work as intended would be if both players (A & B) vote for one another and don't move that vote. That is unrealistic, it is much more likely that either A or B or both would withhold their vote, making the effort of getting even votes on both of them based more on last second vote placement at the deadline and less about careful planning.
-

The two things that have caught my attention so far are prplz first post + Show Spoiler +
On August 08 2012 05:38 prplhz wrote:
Hey didn't read thread yet can anybody tell me who is scum?

He posts without reading, isn't relevant, sarcastic, and thumbs his nose at town. This just rubs me the wrong way.

and Costos Luna's first two posts are pointing out a contradiction that isn't a contradiction and telling people to stop talking about a day1 double lynch, which no one was doing.
-

slOosh! you are the only absent member of our town, speak up!
-

P.S. Could someone explain the innocent child thing to me? I looked up the term on mafiascumwiki and it didn't seem to apply to this game.
Guts? Determination? $5?
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
August 07 2012 23:47 GMT
#177
On August 08 2012 08:38 risk.nuke wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 08 2012 08:28 Bluelightz wrote:
Agh. Clarifying nao. Watcher tracks everything that visits his target, while tracker tracks role actions. Yes one person can both rb/kill in 1 night

Okey, I'm still not sure but I'm starting to lean that if we have a tracker (which we probably don't have if we're lucky) he should claim. At first I thought hiros suggestion was dumb as crap but thinking about it more and including things that hiro probably didn't even realise I'm starting to feel this might be the best action. I think he should claim Day 3 or preferably during night 2. Just before the daypost. (He could put some effort into making sure he'll be around for that time) but otherwise day 3 will be fine.

thoughts?


I think postulating about a setup we only have 1/3 of the time with various unknown lynches/nightkills in the way is quite an unproductive use of thread space. Even in your post you say "for things without Hiro realises" without expanding upon them. Looks like crap designed to spam up the thread.
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
August 07 2012 23:48 GMT
#178
EBWOP: "for things that hiro doesn't even realise"

not sure how i got that one so far off
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
sciberbia
Profile Joined April 2011
United States1359 Posts
August 07 2012 23:52 GMT
#179
On August 08 2012 08:40 DoYouHas wrote:
P.S. Could someone explain the innocent child thing to me? I looked up the term on mafiascumwiki and it didn't seem to apply to this game.

@DoYouHas
An innocent child is a mod-confirmed townie with no special powers.

HiroPro pointed out that (a potentially existent) tracker is a rather useless blue as far as actual night abilities go. However, HiroPro's idea was to essentially turn tracker into an Innocent child by having tracker claim today.

If the tracker were to claim today, mafia would be very unlikely to counterclaim, and we would essentially have a confirmed townie with no special powers (seeing as he would be a RB-magnet), hence the term innocent child.

I'm fairly indifferent about this idea myself. I agree with marv's recent sentiments that we are wasting too much time talking about a potentially existent tracker, and it's time to start scumhunting.
Keirathi
Profile Joined May 2012
United States4679 Posts
August 08 2012 00:02 GMT
#180
On August 08 2012 08:40 DoYouHas wrote:
P.S. Could someone explain the innocent child thing to me? I looked up the term on mafiascumwiki and it didn't seem to apply to this game.

I think the general idea is that the watcher/tracker could claim early, and by virtue of scum generally not want to trade 1-for-1 by counterclaiming, that the watcher/tracker could be confirmed town for the rest of their time alive.

I don't feel like it was a particularly good proposal though. If the watcher/tracker claims early, now either his lifespan is limited, or he will be roleblocked for eternity. As as "useless" as they might be, they are always more useful alive and getting results than dead or getting perma-blocked.




My dear friend if I have gone pants on head, you have gone socks on ears!!! -ShiaoPi
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