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On August 08 2012 00:46 Forumite wrote:
What´s the point of watcher and tracker? DT is easy, check someone you think is scum. Watcher and Tracker just seem like weaker versions of a DT, with many false positive results. Are there any advantages?
I agree that watcher seems like weaker version of cop. Tracker seems pretty useless for everything except confirming our doc IMO. I'm not expecting mafia to be all that liberal with their RB'r.
On August 08 2012 00:50 marvellosity wrote:
Relatedly, and it should go without saying but sometimes I see people not adhere to this, everyone must let town know when they've been roleblocked.
100% agree that townies should always claim roleblocks in this setup.
On August 08 2012 00:51 ShiaoPi wrote:
@scib:
I can agree with your thoughts about the roleclaims, but I have a question about the 1+ Lynches.
In your 2nd example you say that we can get an extralynch off if we lynch 2 instead of 1 at 6 vs 1
wouldn't it end still in 2 cycles as the night following a double mislynch would be 4-1. with the subsequent nighthit it gets to 3-1 and another mislynch ends the game as it will be 1-1 after the NK.
Just my maths being wrong or an oversight from your side?
Ah but shiaopi you must build upon what you have learned. After a double mislynch you are correct that it would be 4 vs 1. Then after the NK, it would be 3 vs 1. Then, borrowing the idea from Example #1, we can lynch 2 people in that situation, not just 1, for a total of 4 total lynches, not 3.
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United Kingdom36161 Posts
On August 08 2012 01:00 sciberbia wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2012 00:46 Forumite wrote:
What´s the point of watcher and tracker? DT is easy, check someone you think is scum. Watcher and Tracker just seem like weaker versions of a DT, with many false positive results. Are there any advantages?
I agree that watcher seems like weaker version of cop. Tracker seems pretty useless for everything except confirming our doc IMO. I'm not expecting mafia to be all that liberal with their RB'r.
What do you mean by this?
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On August 08 2012 01:01 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2012 01:00 sciberbia wrote:On August 08 2012 00:46 Forumite wrote:
What´s the point of watcher and tracker? DT is easy, check someone you think is scum. Watcher and Tracker just seem like weaker versions of a DT, with many false positive results. Are there any advantages?
I agree that watcher seems like weaker version of cop. Tracker seems pretty useless for everything except confirming our doc IMO. I'm not expecting mafia to be all that liberal with their RB'r. What do you mean by this?
Well I don't really want to get into scum strategy, but what I meant is that if there is a tracker/watcher about, I'm expecting scum to be extremely careful about actually using their RB at all.
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On August 08 2012 00:55 ShiaoPi wrote:EBWOP: Just saw I got ninja'ed: Show nested quote +On August 08 2012 00:46 Forumite wrote:
I think ShiaoPi is a Goblin
What´s the point of watcher and tracker? DT is easy, check someone you think is scum. Watcher and Tracker just seem like weaker versions of a DT, with many false positive results. Are there any advantages?
Do Scum decide on their own who among them carries out the nightkill? What makes you think so? Watcher/Tracker are probably weaker than DT. Speculating on them being in the possible setups does not get us far though imo. Maybe for balance purposes but as marv points out the watcher at least has 2 things to watch.
Tracker, if checking someone with a nightpower and the target doesn´t die or claim being roleblocked, then the person he tracked must be the doctor. I don´t know if there´s any advantage to that though. Perhaps he can clear himself by successfully identifying the doctor in a LYLO-situation.
I´d prefer not to discuss my read yet though, I hope you understand.
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TAIWAN NUMBAH WAN5956 Posts
Well, I understand if you understand me not taking it serious at all then.
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United Kingdom36161 Posts
On August 08 2012 01:08 sciberbia wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2012 01:01 marvellosity wrote:On August 08 2012 01:00 sciberbia wrote:On August 08 2012 00:46 Forumite wrote:
What´s the point of watcher and tracker? DT is easy, check someone you think is scum. Watcher and Tracker just seem like weaker versions of a DT, with many false positive results. Are there any advantages?
I agree that watcher seems like weaker version of cop. Tracker seems pretty useless for everything except confirming our doc IMO. I'm not expecting mafia to be all that liberal with their RB'r. What do you mean by this? Well I don't really want to get into scum strategy, but what I meant is that if there is a tracker/watcher about, I'm expecting scum to be extremely careful about actually using their RB at all.
Huh, interesting. It hadn't occurred to me that it might be a correct play to withold RB. In cop setup it makes little sense to withold RB because it's not traceable, but the same isn't true for watcher/tracker. But by not using it they're losing the chance to RB either the medic or the tracker/watcher.
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Sciberbia: any reason that 6v1 and 3v1 are the only places double lynch could work, or were those just the only 2 examples you mentions but there are in fact other ones?
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On August 08 2012 00:39 sciberbia wrote:
Hello everyone! Top of the morning to ya :D
First thing's first: I can truthfully report that I have rolled Dwarf,
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Thoughts on roleclaims:
Vanilla Townies
Please do not roleclaim without a very good reason.
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On August 08 2012 01:33 Keirathi wrote:
Sciberbia: any reason that 6v1 and 3v1 are the only places double lynch could work, or were those just the only 2 examples you mentions but there are in fact other ones?
I am quite sure that there are other situations in which it is beneficial to double-lynch. I just used those two examples because there is very clearly an upside and no downside.
In a perfect, idealized world, I don't think double-lynch can ever actually hurt (unless it puts us in situation where scum can pull some voting shenanigans and end the game). However this is not a perfect world, I don't think the extra bickering over policy is worth some slight mathematical benefits, one of the reasons I'm not advocating a double-lynch today.
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United Kingdom36161 Posts
On August 08 2012 01:40 Custos Luna wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2012 00:39 sciberbia wrote:
Hello everyone! Top of the morning to ya :D
First thing's first: I can truthfully report that I have rolled Dwarf,
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Thoughts on roleclaims:
Vanilla Townies
Please do not roleclaim without a very good reason.
claiming alignment and claiming role are not the same thing
I was more interested in the "truthfully" part of it.
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Hi everyone,
I agree with scib that a double lynch today would not be ideal, too little information. However, I think we should consider using double lynches on day2-3 to weed out lurkers quickly. It feels like in all my past games there has been at least 1 mafia lurking among them but by the time you get to day3-4 people are so able to create massive convincing cases against active players that you will never get a lynch on them until mylo or lylo.
For those of you who haven't played with me before, my games are easy to find as this is pretty much the only part of TL I post in.
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On August 08 2012 01:12 ShiaoPi wrote:
Well, I understand if you understand me not taking it serious at all then.
That´s okay, you are more likely to scumslip if you don´t think there´s any danger.
On Double-lynching:
I´m opposed to double-lynching because of the danger of gobbos manipulating the vote, either to save their buddy or to kill two town at once. I´m also opposed to it because of the ease of blending in when the discussion is about a package of 2 people dying, when there are two candidates players can just say "Meh, I don´t really want to lynch B but since it´s the only way to get you all to agree on lynching A, I guess we´ll lynch both together". I will not agree to double-lynching unless there´s a VERY good reason to double-lynch. I will vote to hammer anyone who creates a double-lynch without the second candidate flipping gobbo.
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I actually disagree that talking policy early on is bad. It is only bad when the policy talk tells scum how to get off free. "We will only lynch active players" tells scum that they can get one or two players to the late-game with as little content to hold against them as possible. On a similar note, it's probably not a good idea to discuss your heuristics for finding scum until you find examples of them in people's play. If you start talking about them right now, unless you list 173 of them, scum probably will actively avoid fitting your heuristic, thus ruining your chance of finding scum. Discussing when/how to use novel mechanics is simply a rational thing to do early in the game, though. Personally, I haven't had too much time to think about when/how to use the double lynch mechanic, but I can say that in my experience it happens fairly often that neither candidate up for lynching D1 is scum, and going from 9 town 3 scum D1 to 6 town 3 scum D2 would be pretty brutal. In short, I am strongly against D1 multi-lynching unless something very convincing happens to change my mind. Aside from that, the only other bit of policy I have to offer is that we should probably wait until night to discuss power roles, NKs, etc. During the day, all that really matters (in the absence of Day-vigis) is town/mafia. Daytime is for hunting scum, not deciding power role strategy. Enough with the policy now, I'm off to find scum.
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CVSTO LVNA PRO SVVS ABVTOR GENITIVI PROVOCO ET AVT NOMEN SVVS MVTAVERIT AVT DABO SENSVS MEVS EI
+ Show Spoiler [Translation] +For his abuse of the genitive I am calling out Custo Luna, and he must either change his name or I will vote for him. + Show Spoiler +Not really, this was just a fun may to make my 4 years of latin worthwhile, and for anyone who's taken latin: Come on, Luna is a first declension noun. Easiest one to learn, and CL has it wrong in his name (Unless his name is just supposed to be two unrelated nouns, like JingleHell, VisceraEyes, and if you allow one word to be an adjective, BlazingHand, BloodyCobbler, etc, etc, etc.). This is therefore a joke.
Funnily enough, the first person I'd like to ask a question is Mr. CL himself. In a way, Sciberbia's post telling people not to claim VT doesn't make any sense, especially when he comes out and says that he's a dwarf. On the other hand though, I don't see why you called out that illogical passage. Are you implying that bad logic is scummy? Or are you just poking fun at him?
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Eh I'd only ever consider double lynching in sciberbia's 3/1 scenario (or a 2/1 if it ever comes up). Anywhere else I don't see the benefit.
Thoughts on using Tracker as an innocent child style role instead (if we have one)? It's fairly worthless in this setup since it can only track medic/RB and mafia will know whether or not a tracker is present.
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On August 08 2012 04:26 Mordanis wrote:CVSTO LVNA PRO SVVS ABVTOR GENITIVI PROVOCO ET AVT NOMEN SVVS MVTAVERIT AVT DABO SENSVS MEVS EI + Show Spoiler [Translation] +For his abuse of the genitive I am calling out Custo Luna, and he must either change his name or I will vote for him. + Show Spoiler +Not really, this was just a fun may to make my 4 years of latin worthwhile, and for anyone who's taken latin: Come on, Luna is a first declension noun. Easiest one to learn, and CL has it wrong in his name (Unless his name is just supposed to be two unrelated nouns, like JingleHell, VisceraEyes, and if you allow one word to be an adjective, BlazingHand, BloodyCobbler, etc, etc, etc.). This is therefore a joke. Funnily enough, the first person I'd like to ask a question is Mr. CL himself. In a way, Sciberbia's post telling people not to claim VT doesn't make any sense, especially when he comes out and says that he's a dwarf. On the other hand though, I don't see why you called out that illogical passage. Are you implying that bad logic is scummy? Or are you just poking fun at him?
Why does it not make sense? Saying that he's a dwarf has nothing to do with claiming VT.
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On August 08 2012 04:26 Mordanis wrote:CVSTO LVNA PRO SVVS ABVTOR GENITIVI PROVOCO ET AVT NOMEN SVVS MVTAVERIT AVT DABO SENSVS MEVS EI + Show Spoiler [Translation] +For his abuse of the genitive I am calling out Custo Luna, and he must either change his name or I will vote for him. + Show Spoiler +Not really, this was just a fun may to make my 4 years of latin worthwhile, and for anyone who's taken latin: Come on, Luna is a first declension noun. Easiest one to learn, and CL has it wrong in his name (Unless his name is just supposed to be two unrelated nouns, like JingleHell, VisceraEyes, and if you allow one word to be an adjective, BlazingHand, BloodyCobbler, etc, etc, etc.). This is therefore a joke. Funnily enough, the first person I'd like to ask a question is Mr. CL himself. In a way, Sciberbia's post telling people not to claim VT doesn't make any sense, especially when he comes out and says that he's a dwarf. On the other hand though, I don't see why you called out that illogical passage. Are you implying that bad logic is scummy? Or are you just poking fun at him?
I took 6 years of Latin, but it's been 5 years since I took my last class D= you should petition the mods to change it for me 
Mostly just poking for now, I'm at work and reading when I can, so I'm making note of things I see.
To everyone: stop discussing the possibilities of a D1 double lynch when you have 0 candidates. There is no point to posit the idea of killing 2 when there isn't even 1 on the table.
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He is still implying that he's VT though, or else just asking for scum to kill him. When someone claims town, they are trying to make other people perceive them as VT. Why else would you claim town?
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On August 08 2012 04:35 Mordanis wrote:
He is still implying that he's VT though, or else just asking for scum to kill him. When someone claims town, they are trying to make other people perceive them as VT. Why else would you claim town?
-_- I think you need to reconsider your own logic.
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I'm more than willing to, but I don't see any reason to claim town unless you're trying to come off as VT. If you give me a reason, I'll gladly reconsider if it makes sense. There's no reason to get grumpy ^^
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EPT
