EPTNewbie Mini Mafia XXIII
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[QUOTE]On July 30 2012 14:11 Promethelax wrote: I'm excited to play with you again Golbat, I hope it works out a little better this time around. --snip--/QUOTE] do not discuss games currently in progess, or winged monkeys will eat you. This is literally true. It happened to Qatol.[/QUOTE] okay snipped. I was pretty sure that since he was dead and no longer in the game I could ask about his play only. I'll wait for XXII to end. | ||
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I don't want information on anyone besides Golbat who is not in the game. As I said though, I'll wait. | ||
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On July 30 2012 15:10 Blazinghand wrote: Oh dude youre still ALIVE in XXII?? And you want to question a dead player??? no. Nononono Nooo No Nononononononononono No Yeah, I get it. My bad. I want to know about his play for this game. I will not say any more about it until I am dead/game is over. I want to reiterate that I don't want any information on XXII, Golbat just doesn't have other games to look at his meta. I want information about Golbat for XXIII. Anyways yeah, I'm not going to continue trying to explain this. No worries, nothing untoward has happened or will happen. | ||
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On July 30 2012 21:05 marvellosity wrote: Prome, when will you learn  Looks like never, eh? | ||
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On July 31 2012 01:03 iamperfection wrote: This game likely wont start before thursday right? if so /in oh shit yeah! How goes it my perfect buddy. | ||
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Yeah I saw that, if it makes you feel better I thought Calgar was scum too. | ||
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On August 02 2012 10:39 Keirathi wrote: Can I make a smurf and keep playing newbie games until I quit being a newbie?  You have no idea how many times I have considered this, wanna hydra as fake newbies? | ||
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On August 02 2012 19:45 marvellosity wrote: The rest of us newbs have to manage in the big wide mafia world, stop feeling sorry for yourselves Want to three man hydra with us? We won't tell anyone. | ||
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On August 02 2012 19:58 marvellosity wrote: yea alright, sold actually yeah, that can be the smurf name. I do kinda want to do this sometime. Not in a noob game necessarily but a three plus man hydra in a real game. Just so someone could challenge Gonzaw for highest post count in a game. | ||
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On August 02 2012 20:06 marvellosity wrote: I reckon you/me/kei could give it a good go. My opening bid is 25 page filter when dying night 3 in a mini. what games are open? I would absolutely love to do this. If you are serious I bet Keir would join us. | ||
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I generally work Mon --- Tues 10a-530p Wed 7p-6a Thur 9p-6a Fri 9p-6a Sat 7p-6a Sun ---- Sometimes I work sundays and sometimes those 7s and 9s get switched. I am going to do my best to never mention this in game because I got lynched last game partially for giving too many RL excuses for my absence which I generally feel is good play however I don't want to do it again since it got my lynched when I was town. | ||
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On August 03 2012 01:33 Blazinghand wrote: Dude, all I gotta say is check out Palmar's I'm a cop you idiot Mafia and you'll realize that I've actually improved a huge amount at scum play ;_; that's how bad I used to be. Just read that whole game, your play was hilarious if nothing else. So many GIFs, I love that Palmar said that any spam would garner a modkill, you managed to get away with it. | ||
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On August 04 2012 02:10 Keirathi wrote: Since you coached mafia into flawless victory'ing me twice in a row As mafia in one of those games I would like to take partial credit for destroying you and all your townie friends. + Show Spoiler + It was pretty much all Marv though | ||
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On August 04 2012 08:16 Hapahauli wrote: Wow lotsa newbies in this game - good luck folks! My buttox are firmly held. good man. I'm glad we're prepared. | ||
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On August 04 2012 17:50 Shady Sands wrote: I just wish there would be clues this game. I think my profile could be super sexy for clues =( So you know I'm expecting great things from you for reasons that have to do with an ongoing game. | ||
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On August 06 2012 10:12 Shady Sands wrote: I was reading through the OP and host said that we would know which roles are in the game, but not the number of roles. I'm not sure how Hapahauli knows there are only 3 scum in the game. Also, why is Promethelax so quiet? In the last game I played him, he racked up 10 posts in the first six hours of the game. I'm saying this once and never again. When I'm here I'll be active (as scum or as town look at XIX (scum) and XXII (town) for confirmation) when I am not here I will be at work, parties or with my fiance. During those times I will not post. On August 06 2012 11:04 iamperfection wrote: Or its been only three hours and its sunday night and he dosent work on monday so he is getting drunk. Or like he stated before the game starts he some times works on sundays. Glad to see you are here for me bud! Yeah, I was working. Also Shady: my cases were actually pretty strong. The one on you was obviously wrong but it was a good case. (lets leave this til XXII finishes) I see there is a lot of policy talk, I don't like policies and feel that they don't contribute to town. I will be making a case on someone and voting for them on that case. Their posting habits may be a factor or may not but I will not make a policy on it. On August 06 2012 16:25 YourHarry wrote: Lynching a player based on inactivity is good on multiple grounds. 1. It encourages discussion, whether or not the player is scum. Discussion should be good for town. 2. Scums tend to lurk. Case in point: XIX 3. Having an inactive town around is a potential mod-kill that could mean losing the game, e.g. in LYLO. 1. True! 2. Did you read that game? I had town by the nose by virtue of not lurking. 3. No! Bad YourHarry, lynching a townie is always bad. Lynching a bad townie hurts town because we lose a townie. + Show Spoiler + shit fuck, I said town three times I must be+ Show Spoiler + me On August 06 2012 16:50 YourHarry wrote: Shit LOL messed up the quotes. Oh well, more work for you guys. I'm pretty sure this post is a joke but this does not show a town mentality ##FoS: that dude, Harry or whatever + Show Spoiler + I'm high as balls. I don't know how much of this makes sense. If you need a translator ask tomorrow | ||
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sorry for my first post. I don't feel it contributed much, although it has elicited an interesting/hilarious response from YH. Let me introduce myself, my name is Promethelax and I am town. My strengths in mafia games are my ability to build strong cases and to post in an active and pro-town manner. My weaknesses include using the words town and townie too much in my posts and often failing to explain things that seem self-evident to me. I am very excited to be in this game and I'll be at my computer for another hour or so. For those of you interested in active scum/passive scum Hapa and I both played excellent active scum games XIX and XXI, respectively, and will be active regardless of alignment. YH was town in XXI and played as inexplicably as he is playing here. He voted for three people on D1 and unvoted one of them about a million times (rereading his filter I can't tell how many were because he wrote them wrong and how many were because he changed his mind). All three of his targets were town. Hapa: thanks for getting the discussion going. How do you feel about Golbat? | ||
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(not counting liking what my boy perfection said) | ||
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On August 06 2012 23:50 Golbat wrote: HARRY. DOWN BOY, DOWN. BAD DOG. But forreal. 4 posts in a row is unnecessary At the moment, I'm suspicious of three-ish people. I'll have cases written up on them probably within 8 hours. Right now, however I need to go beat tuition money out of my high school guidance counselor, and then go suit shopping. I have no clue when i'll be back, or if I'll be able to post in between. See you laters. <3 I'd like to bring attention to this post: it is neither a scum or a town tell but if you promise to make reads you had better do it. Golbat I want to hear what you think about people and I will be happy to vote you if you do not provide these cases, I know irl things can get in the way so I don't expect them at this moment but I do expect them within this day. goodluck on your tuition moneys. | ||
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On August 07 2012 02:30 Dandel Ion wrote: After reading this game, I'm convinced YourHarry has a secret DT role, the reverse DT. Everyone he attacks is town, people he says are town are mafia. He even breadcrumbed it in his in-post: + Show Spoiler + This post was not serious, pls ignore. not going to lie, I laughed. But this is a waste of time and space. How do you feel about him and his play? Is Harry town, null or scum in your eyes and why? | ||
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that seems like a decent point. Thanks for bringing it to my attention and I will have to go back and look at Syn. I had another point about Golbat in the above post. This point is made out of WIFOM. Feel free to ignore it.+ Show Spoiler + If 1. Golbat is scum, 2. YH is in this game and 3. I am town Golbat defending me against YH could be a good idea to buy him town cred with someone he knows is an active and experienced (for a newbie game) poster /speculation, feel free to ignore this, I probably will | ||
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On August 07 2012 02:37 Lvdr wrote: Prome- What do you think of hapa? Seems solidly town, but a gf play could be devastating, esp given that he has been an active and successful scum before. I like active posters and it is great to have another one in this game but as I said, neither of us (Happa, me) should be cleared of suspicion just because we are active we have both played active scum games where we roflstomped the town. As those of you who played XXII with me know I believe that town needs a strong voice, a strong leader to create a positive town atmosphere and make sure that the town functions. A town Shepard essentially (lol sheep) not to tell people where to vote but to be the voice of reason when two townies tunnel each other (a la VE and WBG in every game ever, for a specific example see how Mattchew intercedes between them in the first MTG mini). This being said I do not think that the most active poster is always the man for this job and I would be wary of anyone trying to put themselves in the role of a town leader who should be followed, instead I think the town needs a leader who can tell us to back off of each others' throats and think about our case without confirmation bias. I will try to provide that voice when I can but I would do that as scum too because I think it is the most townie play possible. What do you mean by gf? On August 07 2012 02:41 Dandel Ion wrote: When I read his posts in this thread I saw him as my #1 scum read (though that does not mean too much, I don't have any realy strong reads yet). Then I read his previous game and saw him flip green. Now I just don't know what to think of him.... If he's town, his play makes no sense. If he's scum, his play makes no sense because it's TOO obvious. I just don't know what he IS, what I know is that his play doesn't help town. Also, sorry about the fluff, will try to not post random shit, but old habits die hard... Read his posts and look for the motivation in them, is it scum or town? As scum why would he do what he has done? as town why would he do it. Actions speak louder than meta. I understand about the fluff but I would really like it to be gone. If you want to get drunk and pm gifs of cats falling down stairs or whatever lets wait for the end of the game. While we are here I would like every post to contribute to the discussion. | ||
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On August 07 2012 02:54 Lvdr wrote: gf is godfather - therefore undetectable. Strat would be: elected godfather, become important and active townie, lead town around on a merry chase. okay that is what I thought. You are completely ass backwards on this one. XIX and XXI the most active mafia in both of those were Goon, not GF. I do not feel that the role someone gets should effect their play. Most players have a general meta and they play to it whether blue, green or red. (Some have specific metas to each alignment). i.e. If I were to role a blue I would have said the same things I have said although I am in fact a VT. Also the goal of being a really pro-town player as scum is to never get a dt check on you, be so clearly town that checking you would be a waste of a night check. | ||
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The player I have the most concern with right now is Golbat, as I said earlier making a promise and not following through is an anti-town behavior. Not simply bad play but anti-town. This allows for a player to get off the hook of suspicion because they have promised to do work to help town but also keeps them from having to put their reads into the thread which allows a scum player to stay neutral about people until they can let a townie make the case. Until he posts his 'cases' my ##Vote will be on Golbat | ||
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On August 07 2012 09:59 Lvdr wrote: Sideni: Restating a case made by someone else is not good for establishing town cred. Harry is erratic, but that doesn't mean he's scum. So far you've suspected YH and Hapa. There are 3 scum, so who is the third? please don't start making connection theories without a single flip. We'll be so deep in WIFOM that we'll need gills to breathe. | ||
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On August 07 2012 10:11 YourHarry wrote: That's how I play. When I make a read, I post it. Sometimes I ask others to guess the reasons behind my vote. And sometimes, reasons behind my suspicions can seem trivial, especially in the beginning of the day. And as Hapha pointed out, I throw in different theories out there and see what people think of them and which one sticks. And they do a good job generating plenty of discussions early in the day. To be fair though, the second link referenced by "Just to jump onto somebody else right after" was actually me fixing my previous post regarding my suspicion on mkfuba. I guess that means you didn't read my original "messed" up post, because the contents were identical. And it seems that iamperfection seems to be blaming me for us losing the XXI game. I admit that I did not have a very good track record in voting or even in my reads that game. Though, I did suspect that calgar that game was town, which basically got ignored, understandably. I got some coaching though, and I think I am improving. You may disagree, but let's see how I do this game. I have a confidence in myself this game. Just trust me  I expect better play from you here than in XXI and I think that this might have the inklings of such play in it. It is time to stop fighting off the suspicions on you though and make real reads for the whole thread to see. If more people want to bring up Harry's bad play as scummy they will have to go through me. I am, here and now, hard defending his bad play. It is bad. Not scummy. The one thing that makes him look scummy to me was his first refusal to re-post his post after screwing up the formatting. Since than he has been playing in a pro-town way and I expect him to continue to improve. So harry, though I think your play seems scummy I am going to base my read off of your meta, prove me right and play a pro-townrole here. On August 07 2012 10:05 Lvdr wrote: I am not claiming a connection, I'm asking for sideni to make a unique case. Restating another case while providing nothing of your own is potential-scum behavior. Fair enough, I misunderstood the intention of your original post. I see that the real Slim Shady stood up, I like your case SS and I'll think about Syn. Golbat: you gave us one case a day late and it had already been made. What gives? | ||
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On August 07 2012 14:11 Hapahauli wrote: Regarding the case on Promethelax (by mkfuba07) I'll be honest - I just don't have enough information to cast significant suspicion against Promethelax. I consider the meta-stuff as null tells. I consider his view on YourHarry a null-tell as well, and I give him some townie points for being willing to flip-flop on his views. I'd expect mafia to tunnel YourHarry more (hence my suspicions against iamperfection). I also don't follow your logic here: I think you twist his motives here. By the time he votes for Golbat, he's pretty up-front about how he thinks YH is town. Also, his statement about "it's bad to lynch townies" has no contradictions with his vote against Golbat, who he believes is exhibiting "anti-town behavior" by virtue of Golbat's promised (yet missing at that point in time) case. I was writing up a response to Mfua but this sums it up pretty well, the things he said about me are dead wrong. On August 07 2012 16:08 mkfuba07 wrote: Hapahauli I was really confused when you mentioned Promethelax's thoughts on Golbat's "anti-town behaviour", so I went back through his filter again. You're absolutely right, and I'm not sure how I missed the majority of that post. + Show Spoiler + On August 07 2012 10:01 Promethelax wrote: Though Harry has played so far with his pants squarely atop his head I feel that this is totally in line with his town meta, essentially I find his posting scummy and will be watching him but am hesitant to vote into him because his play is simply bad and, as any coach will tell you, bad play is a dumb-tell not a scum tell. The player I have the most concern with right now is Golbat, as I said earlier making a promise and not following through is an anti-town behavior. Not simply bad play but anti-town. This allows for a player to get off the hook of suspicion because they have promised to do work to help town but also keeps them from having to put their reads into the thread which allows a scum player to stay neutral about people until they can let a townie make the case. Until he posts his 'cases' my ##Vote will be on Golbat In my skimming I must have filled in the second paragraph with the information from his previous post where he said that it was "neither a scum or a town tell." At that point I was feeling so clever that I'd discovered this "brilliant new case" that I didn't take the time to make sure I had the facts straight. Confirmation biases abound! Sorry for misrepresenting you Prom. I'll also have to keep in mind that just because something can be considered scummy behaviour doesn't mean that it is. That being said, I would like to see Prom's thoughts more when he responds to other peoples' posts. It feels to me like you are trying to encourage discussion, but are letting others do the talking for the most part. When I finally read it, your reasoning for Golbat was great, and I'd like to read more. I have a quick question: In general is it better to spoiler quotes or leave them visible? I've seen both, so I'm not sure of the protocol. I'm glad to see that you have seen the light. I generally leave them, some people spoiler them. Personal preference. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- iamperfection is playing in a different way than he played as scum, in XIX where we were scum together he was very lurky and in general refused to stick his neck out. Since he has decided to be more open this game and put himself out there I would prefer to wait in his lynch I don't feel that he should be the target of this lynch, if his behaviour changes drastically in the later game we will have more information on him. I am still very concerned about Golbat, he has given himself three excuses for not having the cases he promised: first: On August 07 2012 06:37 Golbat wrote: Hey guys, just got back. In the process of writing my cases. I'm thinking i'm only going to do two for now, cause i'm at a friend's house and I don't want to be in the corner playing mafia all night. at about the time he promised us the cases. Second: On August 07 2012 08:38 Golbat wrote: Sorry, my friend decided to make me play quake with him, so the cases are now forthcoming. two hours later third: On August 07 2012 11:34 Golbat wrote: Drunk. If I attempted it, it would not be pretty. Syn is the person i'm looking at the most, so I don't see a need to push it out right now. I may have gotten a bit ahead of myself with 2-3 cases in 8 hours so early in the game. it'll get here when it gets here. about three hours later. And the one case he did post was on a guy who was already under suspicion. His actions lead me to believe that he is in fact a scummy player trying to get out of posting promised cases because he does not want to be forced into a position of having strong reads at the beginning of the game as such he will retain my vote. | ||
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what the fuck. So confused by Harry, well played. | ||
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On August 08 2012 02:50 Shady Sands wrote: The whole scum strategy was to push Syn and Prom as lynches, and hopefully get Prom to wagon Syn hard, so we could set Prom up as the D2 mislynch. sucks for you guys, Syn seemed dumb not scum. | ||
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On August 09 2012 01:09 Blazinghand wrote: It's really Marv's problem he couldn't remember the name of the hair consulting firm to the 1984 Summer Olympics in Los Angeles (Vidal Sassoon). Did you know that off the top of your head...? | ||
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my gut feeling is that lvdr is playing too dumb to be scum but after Harry's stellar scum play in XXIII.O (hah, see what I did there) I have to leave him as a null to slightly scummy read. I do have to say that Gonzaw considers drunk posting to be a town characteristic though it has been proven to be a scum one as well at least once (by me, XIX). That makes the drunk posts null in my eyes. I'm doing my best to catch up read and re-read. I already have one crazy connection theory which is too dumb to post so good news on that front. I really don't understand posting a town read this early and it feels somewhat scummy to me, optimal play is to post scum reads and cases to go with them, town reads come about by way of elimination or as a hard defense of someone on the chopping block who you feel is a townie. A town read a few hours into a day seems like a bad play from someone who has just proved themselves to be a good player, as such I cast a FoS upon Harry and a lesser one on lvdr for his abysmally shitty posting thus far. Shape up if you are town, if not feel free to keep on trucking as you are. | ||
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On August 10 2012 03:57 iamperfection wrote: Dont be a tease you are among friends. Also what do you think about lvdr making the statement about them either being both town or both scum specifically what do you think of that specefic comment. Also i will be quite honest with you. From my previous interactions with you i thought coming into this game that you would be very active your tone has come across to me as wierd. Even though we were scum together in our previous game i still expected you to be a leading force among the town regardless. You came across to me as a very thoughtful player so im just take aback somewhat by your whole approach. Do you have a reason for this? Seriously too dumb to talk about, it involves two flips. Here it is though. Sorry about the wild stupidity of it but you asked about the comment it came from. I think that the comment On August 09 2012 11:06 Lvdr wrote: Both hapa and yh are mafia or both are town? is seriously dumb (if lvdr is town, or if lvdr is scum and both yh and Hapa share an alignment), it assumes that townies are aware of each others alignments, if he had said masons or scum there might have been a townie thought behind the statement. My guess is that lvdr is trying to cover all the options but he could be town or scum doing that so that after one of the two flips he can say 'oooh I told you so, x was green/red so y must be as well' which, if lvdr is scum means that one of those two is scum and the other is town. Since this would have outed two members of the scum team on D1 I have a hard time believing this to be the case and it is a slight townie point in lvdr's favour. I guess I'm playing worse as either alignment. I'm going to try to be more active and more thoughtful and provide good leadership for the town. It is my goal to be NK'd in this game, whether we win or lose I'll count getting NK'd as a victory in my own books. Also, seriously that was my first post getting into the game late so...no, I don't have a reason (unless we are talking about XXIII.O, in which case also no). lvdr: I'd like to see your breakdown of YH's town read. It provides me with an understanding of your thought process which so far I don't have. I'd like to have an understanding of your case building and analytical skills. I am suspicious of Dandel's play thus far: He started by skating over the policy discussion, which is fair since we all just started a game together. He also suggests a silly policy lynch and doesn't give us a read or an opinion. Okay, first post. Just had to post. Whatever. But almost 24 hours later he comes back into the thread to say: On August 10 2012 04:07 Dandel Ion wrote: That's assuming he said the truth. And you should never just assume that. which is basic advice to a newb that we could all give. He hasn't given the thread anything and was so excited before hand. (Look at all of his posts between game 23a and 23b, I am forced to think that something changed and so his excitement died down, I read this as a scum tell and will be watching Dandel closely. What is the deadline? I haven't figured out how much my work schedule is going to screw me this game | ||
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We should make sure to lynch someone who seems scummy and we should make sure to get people to get their opinions out on the candidates early, we need more information earlier. on that note: I didn't see anything in the OP about encryption, what are your rules on it? I don't want to break the game if you don't allow it. | ||
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On August 10 2012 05:28 Dandel Ion wrote: Just to clarify this shit, "basic advice to a newb" is the point of this. It's called "Newbie Mafia", you know? I'd like for you to point out the exact syllable that's "scummy" about it. Yeah, I'm lurking so far, I know I know. But so are goodkarma and Axero, Sideni (again) and Shady Sands (not even a single post since the start) I'd like to know the reason why I'm so far above them, because I'm pretty sure you don't have one. Between YourHarry being YourHarry, mkfuba attacking YourHarry for being YourHarry, Lvdr being lvdr, mkfuba attacking lvdr for being lvdr, and the new people doing blanket statements about policy, I was yet unable to find anything I felt I could post on. That's my reason. Right, and we're all newbs so why give basci advice that you know when he surely knows it too? What was scummy was that you chose to say something so neutral after being gone for 24 hours. You left, came back and thought to yourself 'what would improve this thread? Ahh, basic advice' You are scummier than them because SS hadn't posted, I don't know anything about Axero, GK had said somethings which had opinions in them (though not as many as I would like) and Sideni is the same as he was before as town. You are the one who was worth pointing out. Okay seriously? You mentioned a quarter of the players in this game doing something which could be discussed and said you had nothing to discuss. What the fuck? SS and Dandel: don't give me this shit. Discuss the game and the players, we essentially got a free meta test day with D1.0 so we are starting from a better position than we were in on the first day one. I, for one, see more from this day than the one before it. Hapa: I'm glad you are here so that I'll have someone to talk to. Although given that you and I are both known for active scum play I won't be able to get reads out of your activity I look forward to getting reads from your play. What is your opinion of Dandel? Imperfection: unless you are scum you are doing this wrong. I like you a lot but this play isn't good, if you wanted me to make a case well good I did, how did your opinion change? You wanted something from lvdr, YH, Mkfuba and half the other players in this game too. But you aren't changing your opinion after they post more. Why so free with your FoS? And why so restrained in taking it back? I'm all for a wide net but you need to use it right. | ||
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On August 10 2012 06:02 Hapahauli wrote: Nothing much to say on Dandel, as he still hasn't done anything. Like really - he's posted nothing of substance 24 hours into the day. I'm naturally suspicious of people who do not stick their neck out, but I have no grounds to FOS him or anything like that. For now, I'll stick with my suspicions against iamperfection that I recently posted. fair enough, I disagree with you that there is nothing to read in his nothing posts but I see your point of view. Imperfection is a weird one for me since I played scum with him and his play feels scummy but not like his scum play in XIX obviously we're all new and our meta is still somewhat fluid. I have him in my scum column right now but there are people who have posted nothing or next to nothing who seem as scummy and I'd prefer to live the loud scum alive than the quiet one, people who talk a lot will talk themselves into a corner. Shady: How did Axero make it onto your list? You gave reasons for lvdr being suspicious but not Axero. I don't like a name just being thrown in there without a case, it is good play for scum and bad for town. Give me and the rest of town an explanation for throwing his name in there, right now with just his name and no reasoning you are on my scummy list. I guess I have to remove my FoS on Harry, he is just Harry. I'll keep my eye on him but I think that might just be my policy from now on: watch Harry. | ||
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Hapa is gone on friday looking for a place to live: On August 09 2012 07:22 Hapahauli wrote: Oh, before the game starts, just want to get this out of the way: I'll be travelling for most of either tomorrow or the next day (apartment hunting) so my activity will be lacking for atleast one 24hour chunk of time. While Kronen is getting married (Congratulations!): On August 09 2012 13:23 Kronen wrote: Also guys, full disclosure: On the 14th through the 17th of this month I'll be travelling to, preparing for and going through with my marriage ceremony on the other side of the country. My activity will wane somewhat during those times, but I'll keep up on the reading with my Iphone. My post count will probably lower, but the ball and chain is bringing her laptop, so that should be ok.  | ||
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On August 10 2012 06:23 Dandel Ion wrote: EBWOP = Edit By Way Of Post Basically "edit:", just in another post, since you're not allowed to edit in mafia. Shit I just explained something, sorry Promethelax, I'll never do it again Damn, now I have to take a step back every time I think you are scummy and try to decide if it is just because you annoy the hell out of me with your attitude or if you actually appear scummy. Still leaning red. On August 10 2012 07:06 iamperfection wrote: I aint going to fabricate a case just to defend myself. Iamperfection feels very scummy here, he plays on the emotional side to avoid making a case. He has stated that my posting feels 'weird' to him but doesn't have a case to make. This feels like it has a scum motivation: creating pressure on a townie without backing it up with a case or a vote. This leaves him open to jumping on a bandwaggon or not; town doesn't need to be wishy washy. On August 10 2012 08:36 Kronen wrote: Time to weigh in from the shadows: I'm hesitant to level a FOS at anyone right now, but if i did level one it would be at lvdr. I found myself nodding when reading mkfuba's lengthy post: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=355874¤tpage=24#462. The tenor of his posts (drunk or not) just strike of obfuscation more than anything else. But to excerpt a particularly cloudy question from lvdr: "@everyone - What is the book on emotional players?" I don't understand what you mean by emotional players. Could you clarify? Also, are you saying that iamp an emotional player with that open-ended question? And does the book refer to how to handle them collectively? When hapa brought me to task on my first post, I got emotional and felt under-the-gun. I saw the first bold text leveled in my general direction I made a flippant terse reactionary comment and clicked send. That was emotional play. After reading his next post, I took a deep breath and realized it wasn't an attack, just a note of confusion. Basically, I'm just having trouble distinguishing in my mind what "emotional play" could be other than play without logic or thought behind it. -- It seems that people are referencing behavior from Day .5 often and letting those past behaviors inform decisions. I have not read the first 19pages or so of back-and-forth, choosing rather to comb since the dawn of Day 1. Is it common practice for newcomers to read the null day's proceedings? I'll start going back to it if that's the case. Fluffy sidenote:+ Show Spoiler + I had a little "Aha!" moment when Dandel wrote: On August 10 2012 07:40 Dandel Ion wrote: If you're (vanilla) town, why would you be concerned with being second on a case? You should not be scared of getting lynched, like, ever. People might accuse you of bandwagoning - so what? Once you flip green, it's just more evidence against them. It makes perfect sense though. In case you all missed it, I'm a vanilla townie. I for one feared being "outed" by someone because of the time investment spent into the game, and the long-term commitment to reading and responding. If I'm outed and lynched as a townie I still get to read the following proceedings and see what happened as a result of my death. All of the fun popcorn action, and less of the stress and verbal riposte! That's all for now, more later. What was your aha moment? I don't get it from your post and I would love to know what you have learned, or think you have learned about our flowery friend. As to the null day, there is no common practice in this sort of situation because there is not usually this situation. If I were you I would read day.5 though and learn everything you can. More information is good. On August 10 2012 08:47 Dandel Ion wrote: Bolded part and your analogy that doesn't go anywhere looks pretty scummy to me. There's basically no goal, direction or reason behind this, but you still feel the need to share it with us. You apologize for the confusion, but good town play, in my book, is trying to AVIOD confusion. Confusion, gray shades and everything inbetween just give scum openings for misinterpretations. Please, in the bolded part you clearly showed that you have the theoretical ability to think your posts through, the only thing left is to actually do it. Here Dandel says that the bolded part of Sadini's post both doesn't go anywhere/is scummy and shows the ability to think a post through...errrr what? Why blatantly contradict yourself? Setting yourself up to distance from a lynch? On August 10 2012 09:28 Axero wrote: FOS Hapa I've actually been pretty busy since the game started, but no I haven't made many posts. I'm sorting out my feelings on people and as this is my first game it's taking me some time to get used to it. However you are very quick to point to several people. The feeling I'm getting from you is that you're only being active to avoid suspicion. Seems like you're over doing it a little bit. Might be a snap reaction but it is how I feel at this point in the game. an OMGUS FoS. This is scummy play and puts Axero in my red column. As soon as someone FoS'd him his reaction was not to improve his play or post something worthwhile but to cast doubt on that person. I'm not buying it. On August 10 2012 09:44 Axero wrote: Since the game started and I didn't know I'd be in it I had previous plans. I've been checking the thread and still trying to feel people out, but since nothing really had anything to do with me personally, I haven't replied. (Not the best play, but again, first game  ) As for your first criticism, those two statements I made were my response to YH, not actual suspicions against you, kind of just possibilities. But yes, at this point, it is my gut reaction to your actions. In the middle of a game of DotA atm, so I'm sure this didn't answer everything you wanted. I'll respond in a bit. This is all so bad I have a hard time seeing scum play or town in it, I guess it could be a newb scum trying to pass off as too dumb to scum or a townie who thinks this is good?? I'm just confused by Axero but after by read of YH as town last game due to his bad play (and the way it followed his meta perfectly) I have decided not to let people get away with play just because it is too bad for scum to do. I want better play from Axero as we go, lets see how he improves over the next few pages As to Dandel vs Sidini, I'm not going to quote posts there are too many, these two seem to be going after each other for no reason. A whole lot of back and forth with no real material. I think there are cases t be made on both of them (in fact cases have been made on both of them) but they are not contributing to the accusations against the other just essentially having a "you're scum" "no you!" back and forth. I have drawn some crazy connection theories from this that I am loathe to share but until one or the other flips I don't feel that their interaction with each other tells us much about either one. Now on to a game I call the time stamp game: On August 10 2012 12:09 Lvdr wrote: Time for some lurker rankings! 3. Shady Sands: Shady has taken umbrage with a (admittedly) confusing clarification I made and accused axero of lurking. He hasn't said anything else, but he's taken a position. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=355874¤tpage=25#499 2. Axero: Axero has appeared long enough to FOS Hapa for (rightfully) calling him a lurker. OMGUS at its finest. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=355874¤tpage=27#535 1. goodkarma: goodkarma has given us gems like: and ... and followed it up with some quality lurkage. I declare goodkarma our lurker champion for now. 12:09-12:25 On August 10 2012 12:25 Shady Sands wrote: I'm getting echoes of Golbat from XXII. Similarly bad play D1, resulted in a lynch of the Vigi. Since it's a newbie game, I think we should be a little nicer on the guy. It might be better for all of us. Shady's last post was at 6:04. Look to me like someone doesn't like being called a lurker. This is as scummy as Axero's above lurking if not mroe so. Axero was open with his dumb reasoning the real Slim shady over here has hidden his agenda (looking active) behind a town cred buy (obviously assuming that Axero is town, if he is mafia this is just a defense of a scumbuddy). Golbat didn't play the way Axero is playing this game, I'd say this is intentional misinformation trying to buy some town cred. Oh, Hapa mentioned this; I won't go into detail he already did. YourHarry makes me a sad, sad man. Somethings don't make sense. Like voting for a guy On August 09 2012 17:18 YourHarry wrote: ##Vote mkfuba unvoting him a day later in your very next post On August 10 2012 12:30 YourHarry wrote: ##Unvote Is it acceptable to take into consideration personal coaching experiences to speculate players that are being coached? Some good discussion going. I also want to point out the lurkers in this game. If you are not going to be active, please replace out. Axero, if you are going too busy to invest considerable efforts in this game, please replace out. Goodkarma, put more thoughts into your post. And not having anything to add to the discussion is not an excuse. There are always rooms for contribution. Keep reading, repeatedly if needed, until you do. I will be back in a bit to post my thoughts. Also would really like the moderator to allow speculation on who is being coached. As far as I am concerned, scums can lie about their coaching situation, so anything should go. and On August 10 2012 19:12 YourHarry wrote: So you were testing me? I accept the logic behind not clarifying right away. It was a superior move, than to simply point out the spoiler that I missed. You could have possibly caught the scum this way. But the thing is: I don't believe you. If you are town, given the context of our posts, your primary goal should have been to determine if my clearance of Hapa as town is merit worthy. And this goal is apparent in your post. And yes, it is possible that in addition to your trying to determine whether Hapa is indeed town, that you were also testing me. But wouldn't you say it is too unnatural and methodical to be a simple townie wanting a clarification? Instead, it could be that your post was based on your scum motive to fit as a townie (and possibly to frame me based on according to my response). And your perfectly logical explanation behind your actions was custom designed only in afterthought. (I admit. I have no meta evidence to support this. I do not know how you play as town. I could simply be wrong in not giving you enough credit. But having played on the same scum team with you, I do know that scum mkfuba is capable of framing logical reasons around his earlier actions. More of the same, bolded for emphasis: Your claim that you made these assumptions (which you claim you made when you initially found Lvdr suspicious), again, appear to be something you fictionalized to explain your earlier actions. None of these assumptions are actually mentioned in your initial case against Lvdr. ##Vote mkfuba voting him again seven hours later. Wat? On August 11 2012 01:36 Axero wrote: @ Hapa It's a fast paced game. I'm still excited to play, even if you can't see it in my posts. Learning as I go.Fluff: (Congrats on the wedding btw) GODDAMMIT! I already said this to Sedini and he mentioned it again. It is in the thread THREE times! Hapa isn't getting married. I hate people who don't read. And people who say they'll post cases and don't and people who FoS based on OMGUS. Each of those in turn is not a scum tell but all together I find it scummy. Sedini's case on Dandel is awful. I still think the guy seems scummy but after that case I would prefer to vote for Sideni. His follow-up unvote and vote switch as soon as the pressure hit gives me a scum vibe and for now ## Vote: Sideni I also have my eye on Axero and Dandel Followed to a lesser extent by Shady and lvdr YH continues inscrutable. | ||
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On August 11 2012 04:25 Dandel Ion wrote: Please read it properly. He has the THEORETICAL ability to think his posts through, he just doesn't do it. He posts something, and says its bullshit right after, in the same post. That means he should know he should delete it in the first place, but he doesn't make the connection to actually do it. I don't know why you still go on about this, I've explain all this already. I get the feeling you have a personal grudge against for some unfathomable reason. You accuse me of lurking, then you lurk the shit out of the thread. You say I argue with Sideni for too long - I agree on that, but as soon as I try to stop, Hapahauli jumps up and yells at me for being "shitty" for not arguing any more. I have a question for you: If Sideni gets lynched, what information will you get out of the flip, and how will it reflect on me? Well that would depend on his flip. What do you want me to say? If he is scum you are probably scum trying to distance yourself from him with these big arguments with nothing in them. If he is town you are either town or scum, I'll make that decision base don your play. It might be a slight point in the favour of town for you. That is what I would take from his flip. On August 11 2012 04:29 Hapahauli wrote: To be honest, I'm shocked at how little attention that Axero is getting. He's laying low and has demonstrated some clear anti-town behavior. Some players have mentioned having suspicions of him, but no one has so much as FOS'd him. Go with me a bit here: If Axero was town, wouldn't he be a REALLY EASY MISLYNCH FOR MAFIA? Why has NO ONE voted for him? I'm inclined to think that his mafia buddies are covering for him! Since you are the only one with a case on the guy no, I don't think he would be an easy mislynch. I agree with your case and I find his play scummy, I'd even be willing to vote him to avoid a no lynch. I don't think he would be any easier a mislynch than half the people in this game, you just have the confirmation bias of feeling your case on him is incredibly strong. It has valid points but it isn't a 100% thing. On August 11 2012 05:05 Hapahauli wrote: This is majority lynch. Every vote counts - especially since we have to secure 7 votes on one player by the end of the day. I think that is what Axero was saying by "The only way townies have power is together." | ||
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On August 11 2012 05:29 Axero wrote: Kind of like you just did? @ Hapa 1) Since when did bad logic = scum? 2) Mistake on fluff = scum? 3) Context tends to help. You dwell so bad. I'm honestly trying to keep an open mind and try to read you as town but your aren't helping. Explain what you are saying here. Use sentences. Talk to me like I'm retarded, fill in all the blanks. What the hell is your defense? | ||
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On August 11 2012 06:01 Sideni wrote: Alright, I'm confused ... I feel like I've been wrong the whole day even if I feel like being in iamperfection's shoes in day 0.5 ... (remember he was on YH's case and YH turned out to be mafia even if iamperfection was the most suspicious of all) The fact that you propose to lynch Lvdr first makes me really confused =/ I don't know if you planned that answer from me, but I feel like my case doesn't stand anymore since you want Lvdr to go down first ... If he turns out to be mafia, you know that you die on Day 2. ##unvote Lvdr ##FOS Lvdr ##unFOS Dandel Ion So who are you suspicious of now? It is getting close to deadline, we need to make sure we lynch. Thanks Imperfection and Dandel for the counts. | ||
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On August 11 2012 06:02 Shady Sands wrote: So sorry for being AFK, but my flight got delayed. Haven't seen any good arguments to the contrary, so: ## Vote Lvdr Thanks for showing up. Is that seriously all you have to add? | ||
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On August 11 2012 06:04 Sideni wrote: Reading through Mkfuba's filter. Please, someone, help me build a case for him ... I really don't know who to vote for anymore =/ lolwat. Build a case on someone you think is scummy, you are saying that you are reading his filter to try to make a case on him because...just because. The above post has totally reinforced my feelings on you. Die scum! | ||
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On August 11 2012 06:10 iamperfection wrote: ##unvote ## Vote Sideni  care to explain your reasoning? | ||
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On August 11 2012 06:13 Dandel Ion wrote: I'll probably regret this ##unvote EXPLAIN YOUR REASONS! ARGH Dandel and Iamperfection: get transparent! | ||
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On August 11 2012 06:14 iamperfection wrote: help me build a case for him. Thats all the reason i need. Why isn't your case on lvdr valid anymore? I can't figure out how to word this right but essentially is that quote alone enough to make him more suspicious for you? | ||
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On August 11 2012 06:16 Hapahauli wrote: @ Prom I think the scumslip is reason on its own. I was originally planning on making my thoughts known for Lvdr and Sideni, before making my vote known, but that just convinced me. How do you feel about Dandel unvoting Sid in response to it in that case? | ||
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On August 11 2012 06:21 Dandel Ion wrote: Once I get an answer on this: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=355874¤tpage=36#706 I was pretty positive on a mkfuba/Sideni scumteam. This made me think it's not. So his backing off a guy who, if I'm reading this right, you think is scum makes him town? I think I need my face brick. | ||
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On August 11 2012 06:20 Sideni wrote: Sorry for the fluff, I'll actually be inactive until 6pm EST because I'm just so stressed right now and I can't think correctly =/ IF YOU ARE TOWN DO NOT DO THIS! So yeah, that has to be a scum claim in the thread right? 'sup guys I won't be giving you any reads have to go now that I'm set to be lynched. If I could vote Sideni twice I would. | ||
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On August 11 2012 06:23 Dandel Ion wrote: Will you ever say anything useful or are you just here for decoration? Do you seriously think you are useful to town? I'm not going to pretend I'm the best player around but you are vying for worst. Go fucking read my filter and read yours, tell me who is here for decoration? | ||
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On August 11 2012 06:31 Hapahauli wrote: Stop fighting guys - we're trying to get scum lynched here, not bicker amongst ourselves. Sorry, he just pisses me right off. Alright guys, I'm off to work. I'll see you all on the flip side. (haha see what I did there) | ||
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Well done! We're down one mafia at no real loss to us (sorry Axero). I don't think we have any confirmed townies from this. Scum d1 bus and look at yourselves, everyone has all these 'confirmed' town reads and if there is even one scum in that group (which lets play the numbers game, there almost 100% is) this was an excellent pay by scum. Instead of a mislynch they sacrificed one of their own (probably the least active) and got mad town cred. The guy who stands out to me as having the most to gain from this is, hold on to your hats, Hapa think about this. Hapa has been very active but not provided a lot of analysis, he gives us 'gut feelings' about who scum are. His gut feeling has been 'proven' right once. Now he is confirmed townie in the eyes of most of town. I don't see it to be honest, his posting has been similar to his scum play in XXI and his gut feeling throw me off totally. Hapa is my biggest scum read at the moment. I would put the second scum between Dandel and Shady: Dandel says that he can't comment on his feelings on me On August 11 2012 07:28 Dandel Ion wrote: I don't think i can comment on Promethelax, I'm rather angry at him after all. I certainly wouldn't miss him, but a mislynch is a mislynch, and I don't feel like I can gauge if he's scum or not.[/b[ I'd be happy to bus him though. Axero was never that strong a scum read to me - though you can never be sure. I have stated previously that I think you are biased against him, Hapa. I'd rather lynch him, than have a no-lynch, but he's not my priority. Goodkarma would be your "safe" pick for a lynch. He didn't post anything scummy in itself, but then again, he didn't post in the first place. Might be our best chance until he is asked about it, when I am his biggest scum read. I hadn't psoted at all between these two posts. So what changed? I'd say that Dandel realized that there was some town sentiment against me and it was safe to make his move. Promethelax My #1 scum read at the moment. [spoiler]Some meta to start it off: In game 0.5 he opened the game by posting this: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=355874¤tpage=10#190 My highlight out of there is: My strengths in mafia games are my ability to build strong cases and to post in an active and pro-town manner. He has not done any of that this game. Spoilered because it's not really an argument[/spoiler]On to the real case: 1) He accused me on being scum on my SECOND post in the thread. on the basis of "lurking" not fitting my "meta". Nevermind the fact that day/night posts are at 1 AM for me. 75% of my "lurking" time, I've just been sleeping. Whatever, he might just be PMS'ing. I conceded that I didn't post shit yet [spoiler](as an european I'm pretty used to NA people forgetting about timezones and shit)[/spoiler] and thought he'd let it rest. NOPE next: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=355874¤tpage=25#498 Roundhouse kicking a few people. Wouldn't be too bad, but what stands out is that while berateing people for not commenting on what happened so far, he didn't actually comment on any of that either - he just picks 4-5 people and casts general suspicion everywhere. Asks iamperfection why he's so free with his FoS, when the first thing he did himself is FoS'ing YourHarry and lvdr IN HIS FIRST POST, without any good reason. Some posts questioning and passively accusing people inbetween. Then he finally takes it on his shoulders to try and contribute: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=355874¤tpage=32#624 What stands out first is how long the post is. What stands out right after that is how he says NOTHING with it. He casts general suspicion everywhere he can (I'm seeing a pattern). In just this one post calls scummy: Sideni (good-as-confirmed town), Axero (flipped town), me (am town), lvdr (strong town read) iamperfection (decent town read) and YourHarry (town-ish, as I stated above) All his reads are weak as hell, even back then, and outright silly now. I personally interpret his Sideni vote as trying to get the mislynch train rolling He then has a shitton of oneliners/no-content posts. Whenever possible, he also tries his best to insult me, which is kinda weird, for scum to openly antagonize people, but whatever. Doesn't even try to think about the Sideni situation, leaving his vote on him. By that time even I, one of the biggest pushers for a Sideni lynch, didn't think Sideni was scum anymore. He even insults me (nothing new in itself) for jumping off the Sideni train in time. I see no town motivations ANYWHERE in Promethelax' play. Verdict: SCUM Those are my thoughts on people as it stands right now, tell me if i missed anything/if you don't follow my logic anywhere. Shady because of his whole play: The most damning thing though is that he comes into the thread during the GK lynch and tries to deflect the suspicion onto lvdr. Shady says: [B]On August 11 2012 07:41 Shady Sands wrote: Wait you guys are doing a last minute pile on GoodKarma because his play is too clean? What? at a time when having a single person not vote for GK would have lead to a mislynch. I would have been convinced not to vote for GK with that, in fact I don't think I would have voted him at all but I think this was a play to get anyone off of the wagon. So for now: Scum reads are Hapa, Dandel and Shady Town reads are: suck it scum, you won't get extra information out of me | ||
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I'll save mkfuba for the day cycle, we'll see how it goes. I think YH is null, I honestly can't read him at all. Kronen is somewhat townie to me. His posting has been pretty pro-town doing all the leg work even if he doesn't know how to do the analysis. Shady I still think is scummy with Hapa and Dandel. On August 12 2012 03:05 Hapahauli wrote: HAHAHAHAHA oh my god you think I'm mafia. 100% desperation right there. Also, scumslip: No town reads because you don't want to give scum information they already have? Lastly, respond to this or I'll vote you the second D2 starts: Are you actually retarded? I didn't want to put my town reads into the thread since mafia knows who is town but no who I think is town. Herp derp. On August 12 2012 03:41 Lvdr wrote: @Prome: Please answer these questions regarding Hapa busing. 1. Why was the godfather bused instead of a goon? 2. Why was the strategy to bus instead of taking out Sideni/Axero with a easily disguiseable mislynch? I don;t think the role is as important as the player. GK was lurking if the other two mafia are active they would be better to keep around for the end game. Look at all these 'confirmed townies' seems like a good strategy to me. | ||
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On August 12 2012 08:20 Hapahauli wrote: So humor me Promethelax - How does me bussing GK make sense? Why would I bus the godfather who had zero suspicion on him? Also, why on earth would GK consent to getting bussed given the lack of suspicion on him. If you can answer these questions coherently, I'll take you seriously. Sorry I have been less active. I honestly hate the way Hapa plays and don't have fun playing with him. I'll keep this short. 1)You would bus the GF to put yourself and your scumbuddy in a 'confirmed town role' this is ballsy play that I would not be surprised to see from you. Although I find your style abrasive and annoying I don't think you are an idiot and I do think you could make this strategy as scum. 2)Who said he would consent? If you just did it on an impulse or talked about it in the QT and he said no you could still go through with it. Obviously it isn't playing against your win-con. Or you convinced him that it would allow scum to win since the goal as scum is to get their team to win not to live to the end of the game as an individual. If an early sacrifice could get his team an easy victory I'm sure GK would be into it. 3) I am the medic. I saved Mkfuba last night, he was the guy in your 'unconfirmed townie' group I had the strongest town read on. I wanted to save the guy who seemed most likely townie and I just couldn't bring myself to save a 'confirmed townie' as you would have no reason to kill one of them while they were all sheeping you. Bread crumb of the save: On August 12 2012 08:03 Promethelax wrote: After everyone FoSing or voting me I assume I'll live through the night. Thanks I guess. I'll save mkfuba for the day cycle, we'll see how it goes. I think YH is null, I honestly can't read him at all. Kronen is somewhat townie to me. His posting has been pretty pro-town doing all the leg work even if he doesn't know how to do the analysis. Shady I still think is scummy with Hapa and Dandel. Are you actually retarded? I didn't want to put my town reads into the thread since mafia knows who is town but no who I think is town. Herp derp. I don;t think the role is as important as the player. GK was lurking if the other two mafia are active they would be better to keep around for the end game. Look at all these 'confirmed townies' seems like a good strategy to me. | ||
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Just for you my perfect friend:+ Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](http://www.google.ca/imgres?q=%22brick+to+the+face%22&hl=en&biw=1366&bih=639&tbm=isch&tbnid=bD8IPQ8OWpYwmM:&imgrefurl=http://www.spreadshirt.com/village/art-design-men-t-shirts-C3378P22T1000009&docid=SJrd2iKWn2spvM&imgurl=http://image.spreadshirt.com/image-server/v1/compositions/1233704/views/1,width%253D178,height%253D178,interlace%253Dtrue/brick-to-the-face_design.png&w=178&h=178&ei=JC0pUOSuE9TAyQG58oD4Bg&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=1063&vpy=78&dur=87&hovh=142&hovw=142&tx=40&ty=59&sig=112900258635405072270&page=1&tbnh=142&tbnw=142&start=0&ndsp=20&ved=1t:429,r:5,s:0,i:83) | ||
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