Newbie Mini Mafia XXI - Page 3

Does it really make sense to you that I would know he's an active townie and a JK and not shoot him? He’s going to point the case at me either way so why would I hold off on killing him? There’s going to be pressure on me either way. Would you pass up on that kill as mafia? I wouldn’t think so - I think evul was a poor choice of hit. He was suspicious to me for lurking and that cleared the town to go after better targets. I thought the breadcrumb was damn obvious but didn’t mention it (at first, until he started attacking me) because I wasn’t sure if other people would see it. Did you guys really not see it? I actually breadcrumbed "JK" for jailkeeper back at him because I thought he was secretly telling me he was JK at first. Then I thought he was asking the jailer to jail me but it didn’t make sense to not just ask straight out. I thought I was clearly reading town at this point so his attack blindsided me. I then thought he might be trying to bait out an attack by YourHarry and then turn back on him before I finally realized.

Think about who jingle is. He's clearly a townie, and he clearly gets STUCK on an idea, and can't ever be convinced. He’s playing emotionally rather than logically. You can't argue with a bull. He points WIFOM at me and dismisses anything I say and “won’t stoop down your level Calgar”.

Let’s go back to iamperfection who I called out very early. I brought his case up before anyone else, as a matter of fact. If it’s such an obvious case then why was I the first to bring it up? I’d also like to remind you that a confirmed townie was suspicious of him. This is one of the reasons I thought obvious was innocent.

Do me a favor and re-read my initial argument:

I think my case is straightforward and makes sense. Iamperfection has a habit of just jumping onto other people’s suspicions. It’s clear that he’s not even bothering to read the thread. He says neither I nor hapa have made arguments as a reason for us to be suspicious. We both, in fact, do. It’s like he’s playing a different game or all the arguments and evidence is just flying over his head.

He then backs off of me after I vote him to avoid a confrontation. Now he’s back at it, tagging onto me with no reasoning.

Look at this quote:
He bandwagons with jingle again. His second and third sentences are logically disconnected. What does the issue of whether or not mafia picked up on the breadcrumb have to do with how risky it is for jingle to lie? His play is so careless. It's fact that I've challenged people in the thread to talk more. iamperfection has never done this. Why does it seem that I am the only one that feels strongly about this?

I think perf is very likely mafia. Even if you think I'm a bit suspicious, I knew jingle was JK so you're saying that mafia knew of the JK and didn't shoot. Why would mafia ever pass up such an easy blue? It looks like the mafia may have missed the breadcrumb. iamperfection missed it and I think he’s mafia. Is this not plausible? Lynch him first – you can always come back to me with more information.

I've suggested a vig hit as a means to try and pressure iamperfection to talk. Trying to light a fire was my only intention with the post, I haven't actually considered whether or not it is wise to do yet.

Here are my thoughts: It is 8:3 right now and probably 7:3 after night kill.

Scenario A: he is mafia

No vigilante kill occurs – we pressure him for 3 days, end up voting him. He dies – mafia is revealed. 7:2 going into night.

Vigilante kill occurs – we see him flip mafia and glean what we can from that. We move on to lurkers/suspicious. 7:2 going into day, fate is in our hands to make it 7:1 or 6:2 into night.

Scenario B: he is confused townie

No vigilante kill occurs – we pressure him for 3 days, end up voting for him. He dies – town is revealed. 6:3 going into night.

Vigilante kill occurs – we see him flip town and glean what we can from that (nothing). We move on to lurkers/suspicious. 6:2 going into day, fate is in our hands to make it 6:1 or 5:2 into night.

Is it a rash call to make the hit? He's one of the impossible-to-tell ones with weak reads, low post count, ignores questions. I think it's basically a big gamble. We mis-lynched which I tried to argue against so this can put us ahead again, or even more behind if he ends up town. I'd want to vote for him anyways, though, for tomorrow during day lynch, so I figure if we are guaranteed to try him then might as well flip him now because if we're wrong about him we're wrong.

I’m trying to show you through my actions that I have pro-town goals. It’s disheartening to be in this position after becoming emotionally invested in the game - that is my explanation for wavering today. I thought about doing what obvious did and I understand why he just walked away. It's incredibly frustrating to be attacked when I'm trying to help the town make progress by encouraging discussion.

I clarify to hapa that I am not a newb and am not planning on using it as an excuse. It doesn't make sense for me to hint at being newb and then directly assert the opposite and that I don't plan on using that excuse in my response.

The “wait and see” comment doesn’t mean a thing. Obvious was lynched for similar reasons. That is proof that taking comments out of context is no measure of mafia. My defense for that portion of the conversation, rather than was is paraphrased and put into my mouth, is that I am town because I am making an effort to talk. It would have been very easy for me to disappear after showing up briefly, responding to hapa’s attack, satisfying him with a good answer, and then lurking much more like several other players in the thread have.

jingle sums this up with "you're just talking, not doing anything productive". What is my next post, in tacit response to this? I call tube out and eventually get him to become a more active poster.

My goal in voting D1 was to try and lynch someone else besides obvious.660 since I read him as town. I swung between people I thought were good targets to try and sway the vote away.

There's so much excessive exaggeration here that it blows my stance out of proportion. I "jumped on the tube wagon" to pressure him into talking more. It worked - and guess what, I read him town and backed off. I me-too on hapa because I read him strongly town. I tried to work with him to lobby votes to save obvious.660.

This is false. I was the first person to vote for iamperfection. My strongest read is iamperfection and 2/3 of my votes were for him. How is this "on someone other than the various people he calls his strongest read on"? I changed to YourHarry in an effort to swing momentum over to him to save obvious. I swung it back to my original target after harry defended accusations and I thought the case was stronger on iamperfection once again.

Well, I’ll explain honestly. The interpretation is up to you. When you dismissed my last night’s post and said you wouldn’t stoop to my level you made me feel powerless. I didn’t understand what you expected from hypothetical townie calgar and thought you had robbed me of my voice. I read you as town but I couldn’t completely stop emotion from getting into my posts. I said in my previous post, for better or worse and however silly, that I’ve become emotionally invested. I’m posting today after encouragement in a different state of mind. I said it blindsided me – this added more to the emotion. If you sense a different player from yesterday to today – this is why.

I feel that your overall tone in posting is overly aggressive, condescending, and you have offended me outside the game. I wasn’t kidding about considering giving up and walking away like obvious did - perhaps my skin is too thin. I'll drop that, there's nothing really to discuss about it. That is part of the reason for my tone in response. Because you show signs of a cooler tone and logic I will reply again. As I already explained in my previous post, I have let frustration leak into my posting. That is another reason for the tone.

Alright, we’ll drop these two.

Didn’t you say something along the lines of all arguments can be boiled down to WIFOM? What do we really have as hard evidence as town? We know two flips are certainly town – one produced no information and the other produced some. That’s not much objective information to go off of. Everything else is subjective – how else can I defend myself? I feel like I have acted in a pro-town manner, though. Regardless of what my role is, there is that behavior that is helpful to one side that can be analyzed.

I think this goes along with the WIFOM. It is what it is; you interpret it how you will. Whatever I say will be WIFOM about it.

I felt good about my original vote. Then no one else added on and the votes went up to 4 or 5 (don’t care to sort out the exact timing) vs. just 2. The activity seemed poor to me so I didn’t give the case my all.

The logic: YourHarry had 2 votes with me and iamperfection had one. If I switched to iamperfection before I knew that hapa would then it would still be at 2 votes – this doesn’t serve my stated purpose. When hapa responded several minutes later and switched it was then beneficial to switch because it made the count go up to 3 votes. There was a chance hapa might have said “no, I’m sticking with harry”. Switching wouldn’t have mattered then because each had one vote without my support.

My only point is that I considered myself aligned with obvious and that we have played similar games. He agreed on my suspicion of iamperfection. Yes it was a result of his inactions and then failure to defend. I’m not sure what your issue is here. I think it’s that I’m giving you a hard time for his death because we disagreed on the read. Is that the case? I can try to respond more if I’m on the right track. If not could you clarify?

Glad you think so. All I have to go off of is reads – my style is to play a little more trusting then you. It’s risky but I like to think I have allies that I’m working with rather than trusting absolutely no one.

As to the “waste to respond” attitude, see my sappy earlier bits about wavering and my last post.

It’s in the silly bit about reckless animals. Two capitalized letters and the rest is lower case. If you’ll notice I always capitalize, and reverted to my normal writing style immediately after the “secret message” paragraph that started the post.

You’re right, I was riled up and accidentally typoed there. It got a little confusing bouncing back between the scenarios.