EPTBureaucracy Mafia!
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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
Ignore List: Mattchew Chezinu - does anyone honestly ever read his posts? Syllogism is mafia. Non-committal stances, doesn't even want to defend himself. Someone needs to redirect that nuke at marvellosity. And the next time Kurumi uses the phrase "actively lurking" someone should shoot him. And before someone asks, Palmar is town. Mafia never propose stupid things like random lynches day 1. ##Vote: syllogism | ||
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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
If I had a gun I'd gladly do it. | ||
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Foolishness
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On July 17 2012 05:56 Katina wrote: Mafia does stupid things, Palmar does stupid things. Especially when he's Mafia or third party, your reasoning for that is "He can't be that stupid if he's Mafia". Why would you redirect the nuke at marv? I don't like the vote on syllogism right now, especially with your lack of reasoning behind it. You want to shoot Kurumi and redirect a nuke at Marv. Can you elaborate? That's not what I said. I said mafia don't propose things like random lynch day 1. Palmar does stupid things but there's a big difference between claiming to be a king and trying to get a random lynch day 1 (he even made that txt document as well). Wanting to be a king was stupid but it had an agenda behind it and there were benefits for him to do so. Random lynch day 1 has no agenda and will not help him if he's mafia. He knows it's not going to ever happen so what's the point? Just see how people will respond to him is all he's doing. Being a king pushed an agenda for him; especially so since it was a PM game. Day 1 nuke is a Kurumi-esque thing to do, but I've said that before about him when he's mafia. I want the nuke redirected at marvellosity because he's mafia. First, answer yourself a few questions: what has syllogism said this game and about how many posts have you think he's made? Before I voted for him my answers were nothing and about 2. Right now (as far as I can see) he's made 10 posts. These two posts about syllogism should help: On July 16 2012 19:09 syllogism wrote: My thoughts are that I would like to lynch you for this post. This reads like someone wanting to seem like they are contributing, but you are a smart person so you should know there is no reason to post something like this on day 1. You are basically announcing beforehand what you will consider mafia behavior and as town there is little reason to do that as you specifically want mafia to act according to your expectations. On July 17 2012 03:26 syllogism wrote: Why do you "know" that you are an easy target to be "mislynched"? Has this been a common occurrence? Why do you keep mentioning WBG and comparing mattchew's play to his, it's not relevant at all. I agree with mattchew in the sense that some parts of your palmar "case" were weak and perhaps suspiciously so, but at the same time Palmar is clearly 100% trolling so far so he could very well be mafia. I think the only thing about his play that could point towards him being town is the fact he outed sinani's smurf, which isn't very smart to do in this setup if you are mafia as the person whose smurf you are outing may also be mafia. What do you think about meapak's play so far? syllogism said that Probulous should be lynched, yet did nothing to follow up on it (no vote, no elaboration). He jumped shipped to blazinghand when people thought he was suspicious, and now I see he's all onboard the Kurumi wagon. Yes it is important to talk about the main topics in the thread, but the town syllogism I know does not just leave one of his suspects hanging around while accussing whoever the flavor of the hour is. syllogism is mafia and is exhibiting the same behavior that occurred in Responsibility Mafia (where he was mafia). I was drawn towards him immediately because I got the same vibe I did from that game. At the heart of his mafia play that game (and this game) is an abundance of question-talking and general advice about the game that serves no purpose. The biggest reason I found him suspicious in Responsibility Mafia was because his posts served zero purpose for the town. Take a look at this one post he made as mafia: On December 20 2011 23:38 syllogism wrote: Bum I've read your post several times and I still don't understand what you are trying to say. It's very likely that if there are "triggers" in the game, they aren't arbitrary but as the theme suggests punish only bad play. Of course mafia roles might follow different rules, but lynching someone based on your guesses is awful. Asking questions is normal town play and is a null tell unless we later gain information that provides an alternative motivation for them. There is no need to play any differently than you normally do and in fact you shouldn't as that will only make it more difficult to potentially establish your innocence. The main interest in this post is his last sentence, "there is no need to play any differently...". Is what he saying true? Yes. Is it helpful to the town? No of course not. This is what syllogism does when he's mafia: he spews around advice like that to try to look helpful and pro-town. And also when reading this post you can see how he managed to type 5 lines but didn't really say all that much. It boiled down to, "bum I don't understand you". The rest is just blabble. It reads so similar to his filter this game (especially the posts I quoted above). Also compare to another post he's made this game: On July 17 2012 02:32 syllogism wrote: I don't support it and I was more interested in seeing how others would react to it. Even if I agreed that it was a good idea, there was about 0% chance of the majority actually agreeing to it. Regardless, did you expect me to agree? Mafia don't know who other mafia are, so they don't have the usual advantage of being able to control which alignment gets lynched in this format, especially on day 1. And again you can see how he writes the advice that everyone knows at the end of his post. And again you can see how he manages to say nothing yet still produce words. I would like to reiterate the point that he's asking a lot of questions. This is easy enough to see from his filter. And it's also easy enough to see how he did it in Responsibility Mafia (just check his filter). Of course, asking questions in itself isn't suspicious. The point is is that he does it when he's mafia and the manner is exactly the same. | ||
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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
##Unvote: syllogism ##Vote: Kurumi On July 17 2012 06:52 Kurumi wrote: I will say it again: If I were mafia, when I got this message there should be someone crumbing those words earlier. I was the first person to do that. Why would a Director/CEO NOT do that? Meh. Pretty sure the point is that you had no reason to do so if you are town. But hey I haven't really read the past 5 pages cause it's so spammy. | ||
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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
On July 17 2012 14:50 gonzaw wrote: About Palmars RL thingy: Wait, Palmar tried to follow RL in iGrok's game yes (austin mentioned this I think)....but he was scum that game I'm so fucking surprised at Mattchew and Foolishness that they assumed Palmar was town in that game and posted his RL thing with good intentions in mind...when he didn't.....because he was scum. I'm more surprised at Mattchew for using it as evidence to shit on Katina. I would have thought a townie would check something twice if they'll use it as evidence someone else is scum. I'll recheck Mattchew tomorrow, but I see him not caring about shit and posting sporadically, plus his first attack on Katina screamed of "picking an easy target". About Palmar himself, he did that RL thing in iGrok's game and he was scum. I don't see him doing shit this game, it's likely he's scum as well. However I don't know if he'd risk using his RL site thing 2 times in a row as scum both times, it seems obvious to me that someone would notice the similarity (I'm baffled how nobody noticed it to be honest, specially people that played in that game too, like VE and MZ). I wouldn't mind lynching him, he's not doing shit and that seems to be his scum meta these days. The issue is that it's still too early to tell with Palmar, but as I said I think he's town. I hadn't realized that he did that as mafia and as town when I said that. If you want something more concrete, when Palmar is mafia his average post length is longer than when he's town. I used iGrok's and BC's game as comparison (even though Palmar was 3rd party in BC's game he was effectively town). BC's game he one liners his way to victory with the occasional two paragraph post. In iGrok's game the two paragraph post comes out every few posts or so. What's he done so far this game? One liners. If you want something even more concrete, wait until like day 3. If his filter is 3 pages, then he's scum, if it's greater than 6 pages he's town. That's the failsafe "is Palmar mafia?" proof. | ||
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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
##Unvote: Kurumi ##Vote: syllogism Also forgot to mention a few things. syllogism I pointed out that you weren't defending yourself because quite a few people were pointing fingers at you and you basically just ignored them all or cast them aside. I give you some benefit of the doubt cause I ignore people when they stupidly accuse me as well, but it definitely did not seem appropriate to just hand wave everyone away at the time. Regardless this is not the crux of my argument nor is it really even necessary at this point to elaborate further on it. To bugs, I'm pretty sure Katina is town. Can't really say I agree with her on her reads, but she's making more than 2 posts a cycle and genuinely shows an interest. | ||
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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
On July 17 2012 15:32 sandroba wrote: People let me make something clear. There is NO case on syllo so far. We are not lynching him this early period. You all will be able to tell 100% if syllo is town or scum by day 3-4. I really don't understand how so many people can be so sure he is scum at this point, it's like something that build up momentum out of the blue with no real evidence behind it. We need to confirm that RoL actually nuked kurumi and if he did we lynch either BH or laya, I'm cool with both. Nuke going off isn't confirmation enough? And if I can tell syllogism is mafia now why should I wait? I figured out he was mafia in Responsibility before I died (and I died night 2 that game I believe). | ||
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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
On July 17 2012 15:29 wherebugsgo wrote: How would you advise me about reading VE? Click his filter, click his filter from a game where he's mafia and a game where he's town? Then do one of those compare/contrast things teachers seem to be so crazy about. Honestly what do you want me to say? I played in more games with VE before he was good I don't know what to say about him. I remember posting an analysis against someone and writing at the top "Attention: if your name is VisceraEyes please skip this section because it's all about meta, which you claim holds no ground in finding mafia". I guess thinking back I cannot recall a single post he's made this game that wasn't I LOVE YOU BLAZINGHAND.... | ||
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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
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Foolishness
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On July 17 2012 15:48 sandroba wrote: Because I can't tell that yet and despite knowing that you are pretty accurate on average I can't tell if you are town yet either. You normally are very thorough and detailed in your cases, making the reasoning you believe someone is mafia very clear to anyone who reads it. Your case on syllo however is very much grasping at straws so far and failed to convince me. It can be basically summed up as he prodded someone in the very begging of the game and didn't follow up. He asked questions. He didn't bother defending himself (defense of yourself in mafia actually serves very little purpose imo). None of those things are pointing to one alignment or the other, so really what is your case? I don't know what me being mafia has anything to do with it. Do we need another jubjub to step in and say "mafia don't know each other so they have an incentive to find other mafia"? Yes I'm a bit bitter at the moment. He prodded two people so far and hasn't followed up anywhere. Instead he's been spending his time responding to my posts (not an issue) and downplaying all of Katina's posts (is an issue). The case is built upon the similarity to Responsibility Mafia, where he played a passive game and put jibber jabber in most of his posts. The question asking is more pronounced and noticable when he's mafia. And at any rate you certainly aren't convincing me to not lynch him on your "you will know by day 3-4 for sure" argument. Especially when you don't even tell me why I will know by then. Even more so because you make this post: On July 17 2012 06:52 sandroba wrote: Meh I'm getting weird vibes from syllo and I'm leaning scum, but nothing conclusive so far. Don't know about foolishness, even if he is right on syllo his case is not the greatest. I kinda expected him to say something about kurumi too and he just ignored a pretty big deal. I'll give out a more thought out opinion later. And then follow it up with this about 45 min later: On July 17 2012 07:36 sandroba wrote: Nope tomorrow we lynch you =P. You guys lynch syllo day 5 or so if he has not raped all mafia by then =) And then try to further justify it with: On July 17 2012 15:32 sandroba wrote: People let me make something clear. There is NO case on syllo so far. We are not lynching him this early period. You all will be able to tell 100% if syllo is town or scum by day 3-4. I really don't understand how so many people can be so sure he is scum at this point, it's like something that build up momentum out of the blue with no real evidence behind it. We need to confirm that RoL actually nuked kurumi and if he did we lynch either BH or laya, I'm cool with both. Which is just all nice and dandy for a "thought out opinion" that you promised us. | ||
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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
On July 18 2012 08:50 HiroPro wrote: Where is Foolishness -_- Deciding where to move my vote to. This is chaotic guys. | ||
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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
On July 18 2012 10:22 austinmcc wrote: I'll give you a hint. It's in my filter. If kurumi flips green, I 100% drop it. If kurumi flips red, I'll continue to think that Sandro's power doesn't exist, that it's a fakeclaim, and that he's scum. I won't be as vocal about it for a while, because clearly that isn't going anywhere. Shouldn't that be the other way around?? | ||
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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
On July 18 2012 10:25 marvellosity wrote: no Foolishness, don't be silly. Sarcasm? | ||
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Foolishness
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On July 18 2012 10:26 austinmcc wrote: If kurumi flips green, then kurumi had no reason to lie about receiving a message. The power exists in some form. If kurumi flips red, then either some form of this power exists, or it doesn't and this is what a bus looks like in this game. I don't see how that relates to sandroba's alignment. If Kurumi flips green then either Kurumi is stupid for going along with the message (most likely), or sandroba is scum and wrote a very convincing message in which case Kurumi was forced to post it anyways (not likely). | ||
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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
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Foolishness
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On July 18 2012 14:27 sandroba wrote: Basically your team probably won the game. Gratz. You were the one behind 3 wagons within a 10 hour period. Instead of just staying on syllogism and Blazinghand from the start you and bugs and others had to run around with the votes. Good job. | ||
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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
On July 18 2012 15:30 wherebugsgo wrote: no one wanted to kill syllo today except you What's your point? So Blazinghand would have gotten lynched anyways, and definitely a lot of people did not have an issue with that. Then you decide to switch to austin. Then you decide to switch to gonzaw. Then you decide to switch back. All in a 10 hour period. You know better than that. | ||
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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
On July 18 2012 15:35 wherebugsgo wrote: I didn't decide to switch to gonzaw. I wasn't even here when people started calling gonzaw scum. I only switched my vote to ensure there was a lynch. When I saw that gonzaw was still behind I switched back. Here you are pointing fingers when your vote was wasted most of all. Hardly. There were two non-voters (one of which is still alive) and still three people on Austin. And in the grand scheme of things everyone's vote was wasted because nobody got lynched. You can't honestly expect to sit there and pin this on me or anyone else with a "stupid" vote. I know I was gone right after the austin thing came up and didn't come back until just now. You and everyone else here knows that when the votes switch from person to person in the hours before deadline a no-lynch is the usual outcome. It's practically written in the mafia guide. And what I know is that you and sandroba were the initial force behind the austin switch. You might have not been here for the gonzaw switch initially, but juding by the voting thread you were one of the starters on the wagon back towards Blazinghand (you were the first person to vote off of gonzaw onto him). | ||
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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
It's as risk.nuke says, dumb unorganized town. Anyone who moved their vote around more than twice in the last 8 hours of the day should be held accountable. The strange thing is is that these were all people that know better than to try things like that. On July 18 2012 18:49 syllogism wrote: Katina never came after randomly yelling at people for voting austin. Foolishness do you still think she cares about the game? She's done nothing to say otherwise. | ||
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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
On July 19 2012 02:22 sandroba wrote: YES BECAUSE IT WAS SO EASY TO GET WHOEVER I WANTED LYNCHED WHEN 9 PEOPLE ARE MAFIA AND 1/2 THE GAME IS SLEEPING. What have you done guys done to organize the fucking town? Nothing! You are so full of shit that I don't even believe I'm actually typing this to respond to you. And Katina that post is horrible. You should know better than post that you are scum so clearly. I guess in this game it doesn't matter since we can't get anything done. How many people have you accused of being scum so far this game? And how many of them have you gotten killed yet? Yeah it was easy. You were the one that was at the head of switching all the votes in the last few hours! Have you read the mafia guide? It's so stupid because you were so obviously town but now it seems you're just having them run in circles for fun. Has anyone even hard objected to killing blazinghand? I know I was skeptical at first but as it's been said when he's mafia he runs around like a chicken with his head cut off. And that's what he's been doing. | ||
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On July 19 2012 02:23 syllogism wrote: That's a funny post thanks. I admit that I have done nothing but gone after people I think are mafia, wish I could do more. Are you going to get back to me on Foolishness as you promised quite a while ago? I have bigger fish to fry. Nobody is listening to you anyways. | ||
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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
On July 19 2012 02:38 VisceraEyes wrote: What smart posts are getting ignored? And why are you complaining about people [REDACTED] [REDACTED] around with their votes when you weren't here to do anything about it yourself? :/ Katina made a very good post just now. Were you here the last few hours of the day? In the last 10 hours of the day the town moved from killing Blazinghand to austin to gonzaw and back to blazinghand. That's three moves within a very short timeframe. Everyone SHOULD know that that's recipe for no-lynch. I left early unfortunately but at the time sandroba and bugs were the ones responsible, hence me flipping out at them initially. Me being gone was definitely retarded. Switching lynches 3 times in the last 10ish hours of the day is even more so. On July 19 2012 02:37 sandroba wrote: Foolishness I share your pain bro, I suck at being scum as well. Some things never change. It hurts more cause you're wrong. Are you denying sending that message to Kurumi now? What are you even doing this game? You bust out day 1 and now you've accused ~8 people of being mafia, contradicted yourself a few times (the Kurumi thing, your read on Katina, etc). | ||
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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
On July 19 2012 02:41 syllogism wrote: That was clearly addressed to Katina or are you going to post some thoughts on yourself? I think you will find that no one is going to listen to you, and indeed no one has. My bad I misread that. This is going nowhere, I'm disappearing until close to night end. We're wasting space. | ||
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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
Think to yourself: is Bill Murray actually Bill Murray this game? It's an easy enough question to answer: no. Because he is mafia. The items that characterize Bill Murray's usual town play are absent from this game. Consequently, it is easy to see that this game matches his mafia behavior. The running joke on the forum about Bill Murray's alignment is that the more chaos he causes the more likely he is to be town. This has been seen over time as in the far past the games he broke the rules in he was usually town. Even today it is true, he is just much more mature about his posts. Simply put: Bill Murray is much more spammy in games where he is town. This should make sense; everyone in this game has played with Bill Murray as far as I can see. Recently in Holy Roman where Bill Murray was town, he busted out four pages of posts within the first day alone. In two games where Bill Murray is mafia, Mafia LIII and Mafia LVI, by the end of day 1 he had less than two pages worth of posts (LVI he had about 1, LIII had about 1.5). How many pages of posts does Bill Murray have this game at the end of day 1? Less than 1 page, and closer to half a page than a page. This may seem a bit out there, but it's certainly significant. When Bill Murray is town he posts twice as much as he does when he's mafia. That's a very noticable difference, especially for Bill Murray who can be very spammy. You shouldn't even have to check his filter to know that he had less than 1 page in his filter by the end of day 1. I know there was a point day 1 where someone made a post like, "wtf Bill Murray is in this game?". Bill Murray loves to ride the inactive train to mafia victory. Before we do some more comparison to other games, take a look at what Bill Murray has accomplished this game. Needless to say he has been all over the place. This is not uncommon of Bill Murray nor does it strongly indicate his alignment. But his best post this game is probably the one he made against me: On July 18 2012 17:51 Bill Murray wrote: I feel like WBG and I are clearly town for our reaction to Chezinu Rastaban is reading as town Foolishness/Syllogism/Kurumi (for sandroba unless he was trolling) as scum so far + one of BH/Chez I completely agree. Came back to see some more filters, saw this post, had to reply. I feel this is against Foolishness's meta... hence him being my #1 suspect. His wall posting has been lacking, and I feel like he has been trying to push from the background without committing because he is a lower level minion that doesn't want to lynch someone up the chain. I also dislike him attacking people for wasted votes, when his was useless. Hypocritical. He did voice his opinion, but did nothing about it... even worse than holding it in, because it is information without action. The issue here isn't about what's being said but about when it was said. He is essentially just restating arguments that were already laid out in full by wherebugsgo, syllogism, and sandroba. Bill Murray came late to the game. Has he provided something to the town that's genuine and fresh? No. He waits to see what the town thinks before trying to weigh in a contribution. But that aside what other posts has Bill Murray made that are of interest this game? One of my favorites is: On July 18 2012 13:53 Bill Murray wrote: ill vote BH then? I really don't care at this point; it's just day one. We all know apathy is a trait many mafia possess. Outside of that, it was interesting to watch him go from wanting to kill Chezinu without a second thought: On July 18 2012 13:56 Bill Murray wrote: I am ok with it, as if he is a cop, we kill chezinu To thinking he is town the next day: On July 19 2012 09:32 Bill Murray wrote: I will be the first to tell you that Mattchew voting me, or wanting to nuke me, is a complete nulltell, and is only a result of his stupidity. However, Chezinu is reading as town to me. Outside of all this there's nothing you can say about him. He's done nothing. He said gonzaw was making excuses but never said anything more. He's made a troll post or two. He's defended himself in the typical Bill Murray style (which he does both as town and mafia). He has not helped the town nor has he made any real effort other than jumping the bandwagon on myself. What's missing from his filter that should be there? Bill Murray when he is town always tries to help in one way or another. The typical way is by calling people out on their bullshit, Bill Murray style. But that hasn't happened this game. In games where he is town Bill Murray always makes long posts in between his one liners and ever-increasing troll posts. For example take this post from Holy Roman mafia (he was town). I spoilered it cause it's long: + Show Spoiler + On May 10 2012 21:20 Bill Murray wrote: I'm going to man up on this one, because I honestly feel I need to 1) you are misguided town 2) you are in a position of power therefore you are misguided town in a position of power therefore you can fuck us over with an indecision... or hurt us... and oh, baby, don't hurt me don't hurt me, no more. when you said "Your wall post is decent because it reveals a lot of information about you ", how does it do that? You said that it doesn't reveal information about who I'm posting about, but you contradict that later when you say you agree with my scumhunting and reads You say "As town, I must always be aware that someone playing scummy might still be a delusional town.", which is true, but it can work both ways. Someone who is not only acting pro-town, but acting pro-town as town, can be delusional town. look at yourself you're "all over the place" even in this one post, whereas I have not contradicted myself once in terms of how I feel about things. What people do, in terms of their actions, speak louder than their words. Acrofales, I expected you to write me off as town due to my effort, but your obtuseness, your parroting of my point earlier, and your inability to address that has me questioning having sent your name in as emperor, and you being town. I'm honestly regretting it right now, and I should have gone with my first instinct. I'd have rather voted for that annoying cube than you right now. Ok, why does scum have a good reason to shoot you? Because you were the only person making wall posts? You said yourself you're active as both town and scum... how, then, does that confirm you at all? hint: it doesn't It's definitely a good ability for scum to be able to blue snipe, even deductively, depending on who they flip I'm glad Zelblade called Acrofales a noobie before I did I was starting to feel like I'm just sleep deprived in having a village idiot read on him Acrofales, you think people are voting you because of your walls? They're not. They're voting you because of your claim. Unlike them, however, I don't stick to reads, and you definitely parroted me Yeah. You made a good catch on that, possibly. I actually speculated something about this, but I don't want to give away too much information. Ask me about it when I wake up. marry carolus mafnus The important part is how he explained his thought process on Acrofales. Note how direct he is in saying what he thinks and how he's actively trying to figure things out. This is the town Bill Murray. We all know that he loves the game and is quite competitive, so posts like these fit right in with what you would expect out of him. When he's mafia, posts like these are absent from his filter. He doesn't actively speak his thoughts or convey his feelings. And that's exactly what he's doing this game as well. He had other posts where he explained his thought process that game. One of them is very very long so I've omitted it (you'll find it if you look through his filter for that game. Remember he is town here). But you can always find the posts where he explains his reads. In this game it was in list form: + Show Spoiler + On May 11 2012 07:46 Bill Murray wrote: Alright. Acrofales may not be parroting me, and might be genuine still. Considering he is going to be the Emperor, there is no point in gunning there I am much more suspicious of OpZ/Carolus/Mattchew of the recent posters that I formerly had town reads on People that were scummy that aren't as bad include Forumite, Drazerk, and MG Mattchew - town A.T.L.A.S. - town P-Body - not touching with a 10 foot pole until someone will decode Laika - lurking dog Companion Cube - want to lynch if i dont see scumhunting; too focused on buddying OpZ - scum via meta Adam4167 - dont believe ive seen much from him, but ive seen him play as town before, so i should be ok U - town YES_THIS_IS_DOG - lurker/inactive The_Bard - good taste in music, but other than that, very null Carolus Magnus - scum QuickSilver7 - town Mr. Potatohead - lurking scum Itouchyou - lurking town Hassybaby - scum Drazerk - town Strongandbig - town Vaderseven - v7 is in this game? Quatol - lurker, one post saying they needed to read the thread Bluelightz - town Zelblade - town Sinani206 - town Kurumi - town erandor - town Acrofales - town MajuGarzett - town Forumite - town Jitsu - town bagmanager - scum Bill Murray - town so i have like 5-6 scum naturally... i am not 100%, but this is just general Another good example of his town play is from Death Factory mafia. It's easy to scroll through and find posts that he makes where he explains his thoughts about other players in the game: + Show Spoiler + On April 04 2012 20:24 Bill Murray wrote: Syllogism - I want to test Cephiro's hard-softclaim. He isn't outright claiming any investigative ability, whether, if he has it or not, it is multiple or single use, or anything, but his softclaim was as close to a guilty claim as I have seen in a long time. I don't want to not test that. PRP - Like syllo, I feel like his interactions with WBG, and the way he responded to the Cephiro ordeal, is pretty damning. I am willing to lynch him off of associative tells, but I'd like to flip syllo first. Tobon - Though he has been looking better, with his defense being "noone has made a case on me, therefore I can't be scum", and all the flak he has gotten, he has my eyebrows raised. Bluelightz - I really wouldn't mind losing him, even if he is town. He is not a VI, I don't think, so I feel like he is playing dumb as scum. I am not sure, however, that he isn't a little kid that wanders, lost, into the middle of the movie theatre... but with an AK. And again you can find other long posts that are always present in his town play: + Show Spoiler + On April 04 2012 20:37 Bill Murray wrote: Either way we need to get the above four out of here. I would want to wait until the lights come back on, and I'm kind of scared to do anything due to VE dying... If your interaction with syllo wasn't completely 100% scummy, I would feel like you were town WBG. I do have a leaned townread on you, but it's not 100% like I felt about Palmar, because you could potentially be throwing syllogism under the bus. I only say this because your questioning of him felt too good, to where it looked like an act. If you're really that good, and that was the building up, and prelude of a great case, bravo. We haven't been using our PoPs correctly. Now, I'm not a dictator, as I'm not confirmed or anything like an innocent child (definitely not bluelightz lol  ), so I'm not going to boss people around in a "Soviet Russia make you push or pull like want" way, only sort of. We need to hold people accountable, loosen up, and ask people questions. Scum will eventually become illogical... it wears on you being scum. Here's to hoping so, at least.reasons you should believe I'm town: 1) I actually want our next course of action to be to consolidate pushes or pulls around what Snarf wants to do, but I know the thread won't go for it, and would lash out against me, so I'm not touching it with a ten-foot-pole. 2) proposing someone else leads versus myself... kind of having second thoughts on that, though 3) personal meta of lack of night posting, whereas, as scum, i'd post in the night /wifom Honestly, though, I can't really be sure snarfs is town... 1) Godfather 2) I could be naive 4) I could be ... no, VE flipped town... I can't be insane... not in the game at least :D ...A role changing ability, or busdriver only the first two are valid, where my ability was day use However, I feel comfortable leading myself, if you all aren't satisfied listening to Snarfs. I'm not saying to not scumhunt, and to turn into sheep. I'm just saying that people are really looking to be prone to wasting their pushes and pulls without any sense of order, which allows for scum to blend in, and that should be our first mission as a town to prevent If you look at his mafia games, in particular, Area LIII and LVI, you'll find these long posts are absent. For instance in LVI his longest post was a nice little: On June 30 2012 19:32 Bill Murray wrote: Acrofales, it's not OMGUS when I have reasoning You have chainsawed You have also set up a chance for a weak ass switch to the BW on BKExe scummy as fuck ##unvote ##vote acro Granted he did get shot night 1. In LIII his longest post was: On April 27 2012 14:14 Bill Murray wrote: There is someone who doesn't care who dies today, as long as it is not scum. A person who was all over VE, who layabout himself suspected. MG. Other people I would like to lynch include Sentinel, for a case detailed by Gonzaw, and St. Daniel for his activity elsewhere, but not here (though he might be a power role). MG is wording this like a politician. He knows defense is overrated, but that isn't the point. He isn't going to defend him anyways. He has been uncaring, even for a no lynch His name is MidnightGladius. ##Vote: MidnightGladius Which is nowhere near of the calibre that you see in his town games. Furthermore you can see in this accusation post (remember he is mafia this game) that he only accused MG after others had gone after him (he says so himself in this post). This is easy to see from his filter in that game because this is the first time he's ever talked about MG. This is exactly what he's done this game. He doesn't make any mention of me, but once a handful of people say I'm mafia he immediately hops aboard the train trying to contribute. Exactly what he did as mafia in LIII with MidnightGladius. Summary of why Bill Murray is mafia: 1) Overall inactivity. He hasn't done anything this game. Do any of the posts he's made stick out at you as memorable? 2) Spam level. He's had zero spam this game. There is a noticeable difference in his spamminess when he is town and mafia. This game it is consistent with his mafia play. 3) No long posts. When Bill Murray is town, he makes posts that are paragraphs long. When he is mafia he never does such a thing. This game he hasn't made a post longer than ~5 sentences. 4) Lack of thoughts or accusations. When he is town he is not afraid to call someone out or make a long (relative to him) accusation post. When he is mafia he is all aboard the sheep train. He even said in a post that he is sheeping and in another post that he thinks sheeping is good for the town. Obviously have to take care of more pressing mafia first. ##Vote: Kurumi | ||
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On July 19 2012 12:41 Probulous wrote: Foolishness, do you think BM is an executive? Who cares? Any attempt to try to distinguish whether a suspect is an executive or not is retarded. | ||
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Bill Murray hasn't done anything this game. He's neither contributed nor done anything helpful. His attitude this game is very consistent with his mafia play. Also I already explained my actions this game. If you want to sit there and call me mafia than go crazy, but don't expect me to respond unless you actually bring up a case. And Probulous, you are seriously misguided if you are thinking about whether someone is an executive or not. Hypothetical scenario. Let's say we have a confirmed sane DT check someone and get back the result of mafia. How are you going to be able to tell whether that person is an executive or a minion? You can't. It's a waste of time to think about it. A mafia is a mafia. | ||
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Yes. That doesn't change anything I've said. | ||
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On July 20 2012 02:57 marvellosity wrote: yeah, instead of actually changing your vote as promised, you went and played LoL. You did not do this nor have you explained not doing it. You are totally uninvested this game, and further to this, you are simply a liar. I didn't know that night was ending early. I got back early evening (my time) to make a post and saw that day had already started. No. | ||
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On July 20 2012 03:43 syllogism wrote: I've to say I'm a bit worried about something. To be specific, Palmar's filter right now is about 3 pages and there's not much time left until day 3. Foolishness' failsafe "is Palmar mafia" proof relies on his filter being either less than 3 pages or more than 6 pages, so we may be stuck in a "not-quite-sure-if-mafia" limbo. Well to be honest I was looking through his past games and it seemed like his day 1 play matched his town behavior more than his mafia. Yeah the limbo state doesn't tell us anything, but he seems to be trying to do something. For instance his recent post here (I know most of that post is against you but these kinds of posts don't seem to be present in his mafia games). | ||
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On July 20 2012 08:53 Probulous wrote: A lot has been said about Foolishness' disinterest in this game. His read of BM is  If Fool was convinced Syllo is scum because he didn't follow up on his read, why is this all Fool has to say about Marv? He wanted to nuke him because he was mafia, but never bothers to go back to that read. That is exactly the same thing he was calling Syllo scum for at exactly the same time. So Foolishness, do you still think Syllo is mafia? If so, why are exhibiting exactly the same behaviour? Yes I still think he's mafia. He's been exhibiting what I call HiroPro syndrome as of late: just subtly push any and all cases that come up. marvellosity likes to do that too. I'm more sure about Bill Murray than syllogism. | ||
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On July 20 2012 09:46 syllogism wrote: Risk hasn't been useful at all but the tone of the posts seem to indicate town risk. No idea about qbertz since he is hiding behind his gimmick and I don't really know him (sinani?) well enough to know if that means he is mafia. Assuming he keeps it up, he has to die but there are much better targets. Didn't someone say Qbertz was GM? | ||
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On July 20 2012 09:47 Probulous wrote: So why is then that the only time you mention Marv at all is when I point out almost 50 pages later, that you dropped your "case" on him, eventhough you still think he is mafia? Because I'm focusing elsewhere obviously. I know Bill Murray and syllogism are mafia. I never dropped the case on him. On July 20 2012 09:50 syllogism wrote: The fact Foolishness apparently "thinks" Qbertz might be GM and yet isn't all over him for his performance so far should be a pretty good indicator of his alignment I thought someone said that in the thread but I could be wrong. Hence why I asked. For the record I wouldn't bat an eye if someone said they were going to shoot him. You're picking at straws. | ||
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On July 20 2012 09:59 Probulous wrote: The point is it would be a much better play by VE to just fake something. I gave him a ready made excuse to waffle on about early game stuff that might or might not be relevant. He knows that posting nothing looks scummy but he does it anyway. The wah wah stuff is just VE being VE. You somehow take that to mean he is scum? At worst he was deflecting from participating but look at that, he is participating. Like I said, your post makes no sense. Mattchew hasn't made sense all game. Have you read anything Katina has said about him? It's pretty damning | ||
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On July 20 2012 18:40 Bill Murray wrote: ANYWAYS. I'm not going to finish reading the thread. It's a bunch of herp-derp like Katina said. Foolishness is mafia, and I have reads on a few more. I am not going to delve into it. I am feeling like Probulous isn't a higher-up-executive, and I question the read, which means I agree with the need for a reaction test there. Chezinu - high up scum, dawg VE - I feel he is way, way, way better at scumhunting as town. Scum. Foolishness - tunneling too much, and engaging in banter = scum Sandroba - When Kurumi flips town (my gut is telling me this) = obv scum we lynch Marvellosity - interaction with Sandroba makes me believe he is scum Kurumi - low level scum that is getting bussed by Chezini and Sandroba town: BM Katina Layabout Gonzaw Probulous Zealos - he's either scum of a village idiot. I'm leaning village idiot. He's somebody scum messaged to look bad. OMG BM, an incomplete list? Where does HiroPro rank in this? Well, I just don't know, and I don't want clutter, yo. I'm not unvoting Kurumi, I feel like Sandroba and Chezinu probably wouldn't gambit I'm flip-flopping on chezinu, because I just re-read the Kurumi-Sandroba thing. @ Kurumi, Chezinu and Sandroba contacted you? What is your side of the story/incident? ##unvote Kurumi ##vote Chezinu Chezinu is being too crazy and illogical for his town game Chezinu and Sandroba are scum if Kurumi isn't We can't afford to lynch town here -_- can nobody see the light here? | ||
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On July 21 2012 00:57 Palmar wrote: your persistence is amazing kurumi. Did I mention katina is scum? How about you look into her? Don't trash one of the few people that's making sense this game. | ||
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On July 21 2012 01:28 Meapak_Ziphh wrote: looool Your contributions to this game have been overwhelming foolishness, I have seen the light and realized that katina is indeed valuable to the town. How could I have not seen this before... riiiiiight. Anyway we need to all make sure kurumi dies today. There's no excuse if he somehow wiggles out of this again. People need to remember this, it doesn't matter what alignment sandroba is at this point, kurumi got caught hook line and sinker. It'd be actually retarded if he somehow gets away. It's great to discuss more potential lynch targets but everyone needs to make sure the kurumi lynch happens today. I've seen a couple people call him town in the last couple pages (cough rastaban cough) this is just grossly negligent failure to read the thread, don't let this sentiment somehow take hold. Again, if you think about it, it doesn't matter which side sandro is on for kurumi to be scum. Well you should have seen it a lot of earlier. Can you give me a name of someone who makes more sense? I can only think of two people in which you can make an argument for. It's fine to discuss potential lynch targets, the issue is that it is day two and literally every player has been accused. There's absolutely zero focus. One page people are talking about Zealos, 3 pages later it's about Chezinu. With so many cases it's hard to tell who is actually trying to make a case (townies) and who's just fueling the fire (mafia). From what I can see though the people of interest in this regard are Blazinghand (should be obvious by now), marvellosity, and HiroPro. supersoft, Mattchew, Probulous, Palmar and yourself are somewhat guilty but not to the same extent. | ||
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On July 21 2012 02:01 rastaban wrote: Other than BM where should the focus be? Don't you beleive that Kurumi and Zealos are scum? We have BH after both of them. I am confused on what you want to focus on, is their more to discuss on these 3 players? I am just confused as to what you mean by wanting to focus. It seems to me that town is pretty agreed on the next, 2 if not 3 lynches. Clearly there's still plenty more to discuss as the number of times I've seen a unique "Player X should be our day 3 lynch" is substantial. Kurumi yes (that's why I've voted for him), Blazinghand yes, Bill Murray yes, Zealos I'm not convinced at all. Frankly there's no real case against him. You and blazinghand and Kurumi (as well as a few others) have all claimed he's mafia but have yet to provide more than a single sentence explanation. It was the same thing that happened with austin yesterday; nobody really made a case against him, everyone just decided to sheep along with one persons' thoughts and jump ship. Until someone actually makes a case there's no reason why Zealos should be getting killed. | ||
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"I concur. I hate to OMGUS but I really can't see a town player doing what zealos did, which was to not read the thread, find someone who's a bit scummy and pressure him in a shitty way that reveals unwittingly that he hasn't been reading the thread at all. " "This is scum trying to skate by, every one of his choices this game is clearly undefendable from town motivation, but easily has scum motivation." Until you quote relevant posts and explain how he pressured someone in a shitty way and how everything he does has "scum motivation" then there's zero reason why we should be lynching him, and all you're doing is distracting the town from other people we shoudl be focusing on. | ||
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On July 21 2012 02:45 HiroPro wrote: You know what I find interesting Foolishness? The fact that Kurumi's response to sandroba's message is enough for you to kill him, but Zealos's response to sandroba's message isn't even worth mentioning in your read. Your "case" against him is taking things completely out of context. Zealos said early on he didn't like the BH lynch cause it was overtunneled and had weak reasons. He changed his opinion later on and he even said so and gave a reason why. I'm pretty sure I can find at least two other people who didn't like the BH lynch at first either but then changed their minds later (Probulous and VE come to my mind, correct me if I'm wrong though). What's the rest of your case about? It seems to me to be all about not voting BH and then deciding to vote him. He clearly explained himself (yeah I agree not the best explanation in the world, but you're nitpicking at nothing). Again, post a case otherwise there's no reason to be talking about lynching this guy. | ||
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On July 21 2012 03:01 marvellosity wrote: you're so cute. You say I just go along with the flow of the cases and stir the pot, and then you say this... when I was one the biggest outspoken babes at the time fighting AGAINST what you're saying was a silly austin lynch. adorable <3 Don't take what I said out of context. I said you subtly like to push any and all cases that come up against you and I said you don't like to make cases and instead fuel the fire on other cases that are made. I said nothing about austin in there. I don't literally expect you to push every single case that comes up. If that was true you would have accused everyone in the game of being mafia by now. Don't be silly. | ||
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On July 21 2012 03:12 Blazinghand wrote: Don't forget the parts where he's not doing anything helpful and then gets outed by sandro. Here's a list of people who aren't doing anything helpful: Sloosh, HiroPro, Bill Murray, MZ, austin, syllogism, GGQ, yourself, Kurumi, Mattchew, marvellosity, risk,nuke, Qbertz, Palmar, and Zealos. Hardly a reason to be killing Zealos when I can easily say the same thing about any of the above players. Furthermore from what I understand sandroba sent him a message and he didn't post it. From his filter it's quite clear to me the guy has no idea what's going on in the game, I don't see anything unnatural about how he handled the situation. Dumb/bored townie != mafia. | ||
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On July 19 2012 02:49 sandroba wrote: Yes I am denying it. I didn't message kurumi. There are 9 mafia in this game so I guess I'm one short I'm sorry. And yes I didn't know katina was mafia for sure until her recent post that says she is mafia. Please teach me so I can do better. | ||
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On July 21 2012 03:34 sandroba wrote: Whoa, I didn't send kurumi the PM at night. I sent him a PM day 1, I thought that was obvious. Kurumi claimed recieving 2 PMs, mine and another one during the night. -_- I totally misinterpreted what happened there | ||
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On July 21 2012 08:59 Mattchew wrote: VE can you do me the favor of comparing MTG Mafia mini to Katina's this game Do you think anyone else is mafia besides Katina? It seems to me she's the only person you talk about. | ||
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Dear Mr. Manager, Is it true that Mr. VisceraEyes is your most trusted and loyal customer at your bank? | ||
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On July 21 2012 09:23 VisceraEyes wrote: The CEO likely doesn't know who picked what Chez. He probably gets a list and is made to choose one from the list, as it says in (under) the OP. I'm in the "Lynch Foolishness" camp tomorrow. So you think Blazinghand is town then? | ||
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On July 21 2012 09:28 VisceraEyes wrote: No I think Blazinghand is less likely to flip Executive than you. That's the most ridiculous thing ever. Blazinghand has practically admitted he is mafia and you're just going to let him run around in hopes of hitting executives? That's like a sane DT getting a red check and you don't kill the guy cause you think he's a miller (hilariously enough this happened in my first mafia game here...care to guess which side won?). You can't ignore the players who have lots of good analysis against them (Blazinghand, Bill Murray, syllogism and austin and GGQ to some extent, etc) in the hopes of sniping an executive. That's just paving the way for a mafia victory; any competent person will tell you that. | ||
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On July 21 2012 09:37 VisceraEyes wrote: Sorry, I stopped giving a shit about this game. But hey! At least we have something in common now right?! I didn't mean to piss you off or be that mean when I posted that. You're one of the few people that are making sense this game; don't stab yourself now. | ||
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On July 21 2012 09:46 VisceraEyes wrote: ITP Foolishness says I'm making sense when I say I want to lynch him. For further updates, tune your AM dial to 1337. Just because you make sense doesn't mean I agree with all your reads or everything you say. Would you prefer me to be like 95% of TL Mafia players and instantly accuse you of being mafia just cause you think I'm mafia and I'm not??? + Show Spoiler + I SWEAR IM NOT BITTER | ||
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Mafia iGrok's Normal - 2.8 Emergency Mini - replaced in and had less than 1 page of filter Liar game - 3.5 Werewolves - 2.5 Town PYP redux - 3 JubJub - 4.2 Resistance 2 - 7 pages by start of Mission 3 Arkham City - 11.5 Mafia L - 3 pages at end of day 1 (he was lynched) Election Mafia - 9 pages under hydra with syllogism. This game you have barely made it to page 4....hmmm.... | ||
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On July 22 2012 02:15 VisceraEyes wrote: Palmar two proven messenger roles that can target town. One is sum right? Its Chezinu imo imo. Weren't you just trying to tell us sandroba was scum? | ||
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On July 22 2012 04:24 VisceraEyes wrote: You and Foolish have both stated similar aims. :/ All right, that's BH in my opinion, Foolish is right. Because worrying about it is going to drive us in circles (and it kinda already has). There are a lot of solid cases on people (BM, BH, Mattchew and syllogism and Zealos, etc) and they are just getting ignored because people are too worried about the chain of command. | ||
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On July 22 2012 04:36 VisceraEyes wrote: This is the SECOND scum who didn't understand what happened to my read of Sandro. Guys you'd be SO much better off if you read the thread - I mean logically, if you're better off reading the thread as town you're better off reading the thread as scum right? LOL Your attitude is so helpful | ||
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On July 22 2012 04:38 VisceraEyes wrote: Players widely regarded as scum: Foolishness, Blazinghand, Palmar (though at present I don't want to lynch him) and...what, has Chezinu reached that threshold yet? That's our lynch docket tomorrow: Foolishness, Blazinghand, Palmar, Chezinu Because we need focus. Someone made a case against me? Where? | ||
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On July 22 2012 04:44 VisceraEyes wrote: Did I say that at all? I said you're widely regarded as scum, not that anyone made a case against you. Just making observations bro...if you want off that list then change peoples' opinions of you. *shrug* What information is there against Chezinu? Why is he on the list? Need to stick to people who there's evidence on. Blazinghand knows he's mafia that's the only reason he's posting the way he is. It seems like nobody is sure enough on Palmar (except Katina) to want to push him over the edge (though for the record I'd be fine killing him in the near future). Furthermore, until someone can refute anything I've said against BM there's no reason to not kill him either. At the least you can answer me the question, "what has BM done this game that's protown?" and find me a game where BM is town and acts just like he is this game. | ||
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On July 22 2012 04:58 VisceraEyes wrote: Foolish can you comment on these points on BM I raised? I don't think his roleclaim should have any bearing on what we think of him. It's definitely in BM's personality to claim a role as soon as he's attacked. He already confirmed that he can do what he says he can. Whether he's telling the whole truth or just half of it I don't know, but as I said it shouldn't be a big concern. Scum BM does not hard push for people. He's also said that supersoft is mafia but hasn't said anything more. He also called sandroba town and called him confirmed scum 12 hours later. Furthermore, his last minute "Kurumi is town" spiel struck me as rather odd and out of place. For instance rastaban said Kurumi was town but at least put effort into trying to convince the town otherwise. BM just kinda came in last minute with the "Chez confirmed scum" thing and has since disappeared. Of course we expect BM to be all over the place, but has he actually helped the town so far? No. Didn't he also refuse to show someone else that he can move someone else's vote around? I don't see any reason to refuse to do that considering how easy it is. | ||
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On July 22 2012 05:14 supersoft wrote: yeah sure, i fixed that. ____________________________________ He refuses to, because he realized he has this exact power on his CEO-powersheet. And now he thinks "what have i done" Man town's these days are brutal, no wonder so many people ragequit. On July 02 2012 16:06 Protactinium wrote: The three executive officers have no innate abilities. | ||
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On July 22 2012 05:20 VisceraEyes wrote: On this page Foolishness not only attacks BM on the basis of him not helping town at all, but defends Chezinu. But don't take my word for it! Read the thread! Compared to past games I've played with Chezinu I'd say he's being 10 times more transparent and helpful this game than any of the rest. Not that that makes him town I guess, I suppose you could argue it the other way too. Also I didn't defend him. I asked why he was on your list and what information is against him. I can accurately summarize this game as "People accuse someone of being mafia without a case and tell anyone who questions them to 'go read the thread'". Yes I know you just said something along the lines of he's not helping the town. Can you show me how or why he's not helping the town? | ||
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On July 22 2012 05:27 VisceraEyes wrote: Between BH and BM who would you rather lynch Foolishness? Truth. Hard opinion. Blazinghand He's trying so hard to act crazy like he does when he's town it's almost cute. | ||
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On July 22 2012 05:35 supersoft wrote: answer me, foolishness - what the fuck is this shit about. are you kidding me? I misinterpreted what you said. On July 22 2012 05:36 VisceraEyes wrote: Then where was your case on him yesterday? You equated you being on my list of lynch candidates as "people with cases against them"...where the piss was your case on BH yesterday if he's so obviously scum to you? It's about what's best for the town. Do I think BM is more likely to flip mafia than BH? Yes. Am I going to push him to be lynched over BH? No. Am I going to continue to prove to you guys that he's (BM) mafia? Yes. The town needs to get organized. I'm not going to lynch anyone over BH tomorrow unless better evidence comes up. I'm not going to repeat day 1. | ||
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On July 22 2012 06:07 VisceraEyes wrote: You didn't answer the question. Where was all this motivational BS yesterday? You know, when you did what you are saying you won't do tomorrow (push BM as a candidate rather than BH)? What motivational BS? Yesterday we were killing Kurumi. Are you trying to make a point here? | ||
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On July 22 2012 06:27 VisceraEyes wrote: Yesterday when we were lynching Kurumi, you took the following actions: Berate thread for discussing D3 lynch Build case on BM In what way do those actions indicate that your intension is, as you claim, to focus the thread on lynching BH D3? I berated the thread during the night cause I was pissed. I built the case on BM cause he's mafia and nobody seemed to realize it at that point. Do you know of someone who does not want to kill BH? Similarly there was hardly a soul that didn't want to kill Kurumi. Again do you have a point? We're arguing about nonsense here. | ||
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On July 22 2012 06:56 syllogism wrote: 1. Is the implication of this question that Foolishness knows/thinks BH is mafia (maybe) and thus "stepped out/spent his time rather playing LoL"? I don't believe that he didn't have time to change his vote at some point after promising, so I don't believe his story. 2. Most of the things BH posts feel fake to me, but that's not among the ones I would highlight. It is conceivable that Palmar thought that I was mafia very early on, but it's pretty much impossible by now unless he hasn't read anything since They can and I think are both mafia 3. No. Katina can actually vouch for my absence. Stop nitpicking at retarded things. | ||
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I suppose it's all WIFOM anyways. I'm done talking about this. | ||
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C'mon guys. How many of you are friends with me on skype? You should all be ashamed of yourselves! gg + Show Spoiler + <3 sandroba | ||
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