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On July 06 2012 05:19 The_Zen_Man wrote:Show nested quote +On July 06 2012 05:08 Lazermonkey wrote:Zen_Man, I'd really appreciate if you put some thoughts about the other players. I think you are over reading Making. I would hardly call his first post an attempt to bandwagon. On July 06 2012 04:33 The_Zen_Man wrote:When Hopeless later states that he had no intention of anything like a bandwagon on Lazer, Mackin quickly change his opinion again, not mentioning anything about Lazer again, as his bandwagon failed. Mafia tends to want to not have opinions alone, and rather have some other people to back them up, while town has no reason to not go after someone alone. Your just making so many assumptions. Talking about how mafia will play is just impossible. Unless you are mafia. Instead of actually responding to what happends in the thread you choose to FoS a player who basically havn't said anything yet. Lazermonkey, i made one post about him, and it is my second since the game started, so i have not really over read him. I was going to post about other players too. And yes, you can actually say how mafia will play, otherwise there would be no point in analysis, would it? My point was that you can only analyze a player like Mackin that much.
Well a player can push scum agenda in several ways and saying that Mackin was trying to bandwagon when he write the first post is imo assuming too much.
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On July 06 2012 07:15 Mackin wrote:I'm not exactly sure of what to think yet. Nobody has clearly made any big bold statements but whoever the Mafia are, they sure are trying their best to confuse the shit out of me. I can see why people say Mafia is more rewarding the more time you spend looking at it, it is really difficult to make an informed decision when half of the people are lying to you  Release seems like he's on the town's side, as does Hapa, Zen and JieXian, who mostly has the same motive to get people talking as me. Many people have already given credible reasons for suspicion of others, including suspicion aimed at myself but I can see pretty much everyone isn't doing too bad at acting townie.
While I agree with that both Release and Hapa are getting people to talk. However why Le fuck is Zen_Man and JieXian on that list? Both theese guys have basically said nothing except for being suspicious of you because of low post count. And they were invisible on D1 where getting people to talk is prehaps the most important.
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I must say Hope looks very bad atm. However I don't agree with all points of suspicion against him. Like the part when he ''lies'' about there being a case on Release. I think this sould be very explainable from a town point of view. He saw your long post about release and you were also questioning Release's view on me. Overall, there were a quite criticising tone in it. Call it case or not, I don't really see this as a scum tell.
What catches my attention is his indecisiveness, especially compared to the other game he played. In that game he focused on the persons he thought was most suspicious. This game... Just look at this post.
On July 06 2012 03:59 Hopeless1der wrote:So while catching up, it looks like Release isn't making any friends. YourHarry has also disappeared after resolving his shouting match with Jingle. He's said he'll re-read for scum vibes and hasn't been heard from since. Show nested quote +On July 06 2012 02:37 JieXian wrote:
Let's focus on lurkers like Mackin ATM. I know I might qualify as one but I have nothing to add to the lazer/hapa vs hopeless/release/jingle babbling Mackin on the other hand disappeared about the same time as Rabbitz: just before what I consider the 'real discussion' started. A very suspicious time to start lurking because they could very easily have been watching and just let the town shred itself so I'll be watching them both going forward for avoiding discussions. Not that they're both necessarily scum, but its definitely looks scummy to me. Rabbitz came back and had a read on Release that looks pretty good, but there are a couple other fingers pointed at Release concern me: + Show Spoiler +On July 06 2012 02:48 Hapahauli wrote:Regarding the FOS's on Release (by TMG26 and Evulrabbitz) Release's aggressive/FingerPointing play isn't grounds for suspicion; he is incredibly aggressive in his other games as townie. www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=345447&user=117960 (Newbie Mini Mafia XVIII - Vigilante) http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=342960&user=117960 (Newbie Mini Mafia XVI - Townie) http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=337671&user=117960 (Newbie Mini Mafia XIV - Townie) In these games, he always picks an early target or two (for marginal, sometimes joke reasons) and relentlessly pressures them. Sometimes, this pressure goes on for far too long, but its done with good intentions. I don't wish to go and dissect all his past games, but I suggest you take a look through his past to get a feel for his town play. However, I would like to point out that Release's hard stance on LazerMonkey's first post is unusual given a previous mafia game they've played together. In Newbie Mini Mafia XVI, LazerMonkey makes a similar introductory post (clicky!) to the one he made in this thread. Release raises no objections with it in their past game, but he makes it a point to raise an objection on it in this game. Needless to say, LazerMonkey turned up town-alligned in the previous game. Hapahauli is doing a big backslide from his previous case on Release, after seeing + Show Spoiler +On July 05 2012 14:59 Release wrote:Show nested quote +On July 05 2012 13:46 Hapahauli wrote:On July 05 2012 13:23 Khorrus wrote:
Sorry I'm a bit late. I notice I seem to have already missed sex toys and what looks to be the beginning of some mini bandwagons.
While I can't quite determine what's going on with the YourHarry, Hopeless Situaation, Lazermonkey's post seems off many words to flip flop and not say much of value. You've just posted a list of four names while saying nothing of value yourself. Rather scummy behavior. That's just grasping at straws, which is one of the reasons Lazer is my top priority lynch. And as far as i can tell, he hasn't even had a thorough reading of the thread yet. way too over-eager to point out every little flaw. and just jumps all over it, building a huge case: + Show Spoiler +On July 05 2012 15:40 Hapahauli wrote:Show nested quote +On July 05 2012 14:59 Release wrote:On July 05 2012 13:46 Hapahauli wrote:On July 05 2012 13:23 Khorrus wrote:
Sorry I'm a bit late. I notice I seem to have already missed sex toys and what looks to be the beginning of some mini bandwagons.
While I can't quite determine what's going on with the YourHarry, Hopeless Situaation, Lazermonkey's post seems off many words to flip flop and not say much of value. You've just posted a list of four names while saying nothing of value yourself. Rather scummy behavior. That's just grasping at straws, which is one of the reasons Lazer is my top priority lynch. And as far as i can tell, he hasn't even had a thorough reading of the thread yet. way too over-eager to point out every little flaw. Exactly what has Lazer done to be a "top-priority lynch?" According to your filter, you have two posts detailing cases against Lazer. The first is an analysis of his first post: Show nested quote +On July 05 2012 08:58 Release wrote:I think YourHarry is Grush's new alias. On July 05 2012 06:39 Lazermonkey wrote:
YOYO GUYS. I AM Vanilla Townie
On a more serious note, we want this ship rollin' as fast as possible. Discussing policy is not scumhunting but it does at least help us get the discussion going. First off, something we want to avoid as town is Vanillas claiming blue roles. In both my last game and Newbie Mini Mafia XVIII there were Vanillas who claimed blue roles(DTs). Both times town ended in an bad spot (although not as bad as it could've been due to luck). But this should still be avoided at all costs as it can cause massive damage to town. Why? Well let's say a vanilla townie claims DT, and then the real DT claims because the vanilla is lying. As it doesn't make sense for vanillas to claim blue roles, we must assume that one of theese players is scum and the other one is the real DT.Two following scenarios can occur here
1). The townie gets lynched. which means that the other person is probebly the real DT, this must however not be true.
2). The DT gets lynched, which means that the vanilla townie will 100% get lynched the next day.
While 2 is far worse than 1 they are still both very bad for town. There really isn't a situation you want to fakeclaim as a townie. If you don't agree with this please let me know. If noone disagrees I will assume that no townie is ever fake claiming a blue role. Obviously there are situations where you might want to claim as blue.
I will also copy a part of my first post from my last game(where I was DT) since I am lazy.
Regarding lynches: I really really dislike nolynching for three reasons.
1. because the information that we are able to get out of it is very limited. Yes, we avoid a potential misslynch but on the other hand scum will score a more or less a free-kill during night. Essentially, we are back on D1 but this time we are in a 6-2 instead of a 7-2.
2. If we agree to nolynch then what is there to discuss? It's like asking for people to lurk even more.
3. With no vigilante in the game the only way we can win is to lynch scum. Kinda obvious but still.
We require 5+ votes in order to get a lynch done. With that in mind I hope that people are willing to vote for someone who isn't their top 1 scum. Obviously, if you REALLY don't think there is any chance that the person that is about to be lynched can be scum, then sure, don't vote him. But if it seems like your target hardly gets any votes and your second highest scumread is at 4 votes with 30 minutes untill deadline, then I think you should swap your vote onto him.
Lurkers!: There are two types of lurkers. The ones who doesn't post anything and the sneaky ones, who posts ALOT but nothing of value. The first category could either be bad town play or scum play. But the second category is almost exclusivly scum play. If you are a townie, speak your mind, don't make a super duper long post when you could've said it on just a few lines. Keep it simple. With that being said, post!
Ignoring the copy-pasted policy stuff for now, Why on earth did you even post that scenario stuff about a VT fake-claiming a DT or blue? There was absolutely no indication that anyone had even planned on that (especially considering you had the first post). If anything, you have just shown people something they can do (to the detriment of the town). And why go through the casework? It's just fluff and you know it. This is very much a post looking like a contribution, while being a non-contribution, or even an anti-contribution. Im pretty sure, again, that no one was even remotely close to voting in a way to force a nolynch. I love the bolded line; you could have kept this post simple and concise. But you decided to make it "super-duper long." ##vote: LazermonkeyYourharry, you should do more than OMGUS. You are definitely rivaling, for scumminess, against lazer. Fos: yourharry
Fos: lazermonkey It's worth saying that Lazer's first post was made 12 minutes after the game started. I'm not sure when the mafia separate forum-thingy goes online (at the start of the game or when the role PM's are sent out?,) but his message seems innocent and hardly "an attempt to brainwash unsuspecting townies" - as you call it in a later post. Him warning about townie fake-claiming is a legitimate concern, as it led to the downfall of the town in one of his previous games. While this may seem common-knowledge to the both of us, it is clearly not obvious to some players, and thus is worth mentioning. While I agree his post is "fluffy," it does not seem like an attempt to "brainwash" townsfolk, and his actions can be seen as having a pro-town mentality. This is hardly FOS material. Your second case against Lazer is a response to his case about JingleHell. Show nested quote +On July 05 2012 11:08 Release wrote:On July 05 2012 09:54 Lazermonkey wrote:I'm getting suspicious of Jingle. On July 05 2012 06:43 JingleHell wrote:
So, since Lazer already opened with the pre-requisite long-winded "Please don't lynch me" post, I'd feel silly making a similar one, so instead, I'm going to open by asking Evulrabbitz why his name references a sex toy. After that question, of course, it suddenly feels awkward, but unless he can answer it well, FoS Evulrabbitz 1st post. Instead of commenting on my post he starts to ridicule it, effectivly killing discussion about it. Instead he is the first one to start shit up the thread with sex-toy w/e. Also, instead of posting his own reads he says I'd feel silly making a similar one which doesn't make any sense at all. I'd much rather have a post about your thought's on scum hunting rather than sex toys. At least when we are playing mafia... The next couple of posts he is effectivly fills half the thread with his talk about Evul being a perv and what not. On July 05 2012 07:56 JingleHell wrote:
Well, Hopeless, since you're at least talking, I don't think you're scum yet. However, if day1 lurkers start causing trouble, I'm all for just throwing the dice and lynching one just to make a clear point.
Also, just as wonky meta, compared to your D1 play in XIX, I'm pretty sure you're town here. You're not afraid of prolific D1 posting, among other things.
Actually, I'm VERY suspicious about YourHarry's lightning fast vote. Could be a throwaway effort to get a bandwagon started, since D1 voting is nonsense in newbie games. In the case of a mislynch, it would be easy to argue away. If you would write this as a first time player I could be somewhat cool with it. But you are not. We want to lynch scum, not lurkers. And we absolutly don't want to roll the dice. And I really don't see how you are very suspicious about the vote. There were ~50 hours untill deadline when he threw the vote. How is this even close to start a bandwagon? Like wtf? On July 05 2012 08:05 JingleHell wrote:
EBWOP: And Harry, don't try to turn my logic around on me, my vote was based on your suspicious vote.
Your quote on Hopeless wasn't what I'd call a real reason to vote for someone who's at least being active, and not particularly suspicious.
Voting for him that way makes you look scummy, considering you've said nothing of real substance yet. But at this point you only had one minor post of substance as well. On July 05 2012 08:13 JingleHell wrote:
I couldn't care less how many games you've played on mafiascum. As it turns out, in newbie games on TL, D1 bandwagons have a tendency to be lethal, particularly if there's no substance to the case to defend against. As such, it's better to target someone who's being either actively or passively useless, not somebody who's at least jumping into the deep end.
In particular, compared to his play in a different game, where he seemed painfully scummy, Hopeless1der seems like he's heading for direct contribution. I don't get this post. I may be missunderstanding this but if there is no substance to the case then why would that even be considered a case? And why on earth would someone ever get lynched by such a ''case'' On July 05 2012 08:13 JingleHell wrote:
I couldn't care less how many games you've played on mafiascum. As it turns out, in newbie games on TL, D1 bandwagons have a tendency to be lethal, particularly if there's no substance to the case to defend against. As such, it's better to target someone who's being either actively or passively useless, not somebody who's at least jumping into the deep end.
In particular, compared to his play in a different game, where he seemed painfully scummy, Hopeless1der seems like he's heading for direct contribution. Once again, there is no threat of a bandwagon at all. Why do you keep saying that? What I find maybe most intresting is how you start the game by shitting up the thread and literally don't post a single usefull thing. When the first vote get thrown tho, You go ''WTF DUDE, VOTING IZ NOT COOL''. No, I agree that the reasoning behind the vote to begin with was verrrry vauge but I don't really see why you get so upset about it ESPICIALLY since it's not even on you. ##Vote JingleHell are you outing Jingle as your scumbuddy? or maybe trying to drag him down with you? YOU ARE SO CONFUSING. OMGUS. Why are you promoting your first post as a discussion starter? It isn't. It is an attempt to brainwash unsuspecting townies and get us talking about useless things. I commend him for shutting your down your post with this authority. If you are actually using the discussion of sex toys as a reason to call him scum, you really are just grasping at straws for lack of any real substance. In terms of day1, i don't think setting a tone on lynching lurkers is necessarily a bad thing. should we decide on lynching a lurker, the lurkers will feel a need to speak up in order to avoid getting the lynch. In other words, saying "let's lynch lurkers" promotes discussion. And "to make a point" states exactly that. "speak up or die." Jingle should probably reply to the next part, but as far as i can see, it goes - OMGUS OMGUS OMGUS ##vote -##vote x 10 - no discussion, the guy who got OMGUS'd has nothing to attack/defend. Checkmate. Turns out, he was VT o.O _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ That being said, Jingle has only made very light commitments and commented on very obvious/easy things. Lazer, you still look worse. What ever his stance may be, he clearly took the time to read through JingleHell's post. He's also taking a firm stance against a player, and making a clear attempt at analysis (even if it is only day 1). You spend half your post talking about his first post, then address one of his points... then the rest I don't even understand. You have very strong feelings about Lazer, care to solidify your case for him to be a "top priority lynch?" He pushed him for a bit, and then finally let up once everyone else had suspicions on Release. His change of stance is well timed to distance himself from his provoking, but he still leaves himself an open avenue to target Release later on based on his meta from a game where Lazer played the same but got a different response from Release than this game.. The other thing that I found scummy about him was his reason for suspecting Jingle in this case: Show nested quote +On July 05 2012 11:37 Hapahauli wrote:
--SNIP--
In conclusion, FOS on JingleHell. His actions regarding D1 voting are contradictory, and he's taken a very suspicious stance on anti-bandwagnoning so early into day 1.
I don't get how being anti-bandwagon can be seen as suspicious. Bandwagoning is terrible and I completely agree with Jingle's stance on it, seeing as I was the victim of a D1 mislynch in XVIII. Scum don't have to push for a majority vote this game, they can let us rile ourselves up and can vote with little risk of getting themselves caught in the mislynch votecount. FoS: Hapahauli
So let's see. That is a whole total of 5(!) people who you cast some dirt on in just one post. YourHarry, Mackin, Evul, Release and Hapa. Except for Hapa, all you are doing here is very softly pressuring them. And I'm not even sure you can call it that. You havn't said anything about these people since you posted this case, why? You say they look suspicious but yet you don't follow up with more pressure. It's like you prepare to jump on the bandwagon here.
I kinda want to hear your response tho before I decide to vote you or not. Hapa has somewhat overwhelmed you with suspicion atm and you havn't even been close to be able to defend youself.
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One player who have gotten mostly onnoticed so far is JieXian. His filter is quite short, I suggest you go read it. Half of it contains filler and the other half is crazy bad.
On July 06 2012 02:31 JieXian wrote:Show nested quote +On July 05 2012 19:21 Hapahauli wrote:Un-FOS JingleHellAs I've taken some time to cool down a bit, I'm growing worried that this thread is going to turn into a giant post-bang between the four most active/reckless players on the thread so far (YourHarry, JingleHell, Release, LazerMonkey, and Me). Such a situation would be extremely harmful to the town and would let the Mafia sit in the shadows while we war over one another. Perhaps we can turn our attention to two suspicious posts by some lurkers in an effort to get them to speak up: TMG26His first post is rife with a desire to look helpless, lots of fluff, and indecision (my commentary is bolded). + Show Spoiler [First Post] +On July 05 2012 08:38 TMG26 wrote:
It's a 13 player game, and only 3 mobsters, so there is still a room for a litle mistake on day1
Megafluff, and downplaying the importance of day 1 reads
With a random vote on day 1 the probability of hitting scum is low, but missing wont be that dangerous, the question that i want to make is: With this low ratio of scum, does the nolynch becomes more or less viable?
I'm still a newbie in mafia games, thats one of the reasons of asking this questing
trying to look helpless
And sorry about my bad english, i'm not a native speaker
more helplessness
About what being happening here..
Lazer was not clear on what he said, Hopeless stated that, and yourHarry immidiatly voted Hopeless for that
So, in my opinion if we want to catch the scum we have to confront them, so i Hopeless did the right thing...But so did yourHarry, what i find funny was JingleHell jumping in to declare FoS on yourHarry
In my opinion Hopeless and yourHarry did almost same same thing
Note the language - "in my opinion" as opposed to saying it outright. Overly diplomatic and indecisive
My main suspects right now fall to yourHarry and JingleHell, because your acusations seammed more like a counter acusation after a "scum teammate" being acused
But is all still too light, a lot of people still havent spoken
Despite stating two suspects, immediately reverts to indecision When JingleHell replies to TMG26's passive accusation, TMG is apologetic, passive, and does not address the issue (commentary bolded again). + Show Spoiler [Response to JingleHell's Defense] +On July 05 2012 08:47 TMG26 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 05 2012 08:41 JingleHell wrote:
Wait, so my actual reasoning is supposed to be an OMGUS, and Harry's suggestion that 23% is gambling odds is only equally suspicious as my case?
When my case was based purely off of suspicious behavior, and my defense was based on the lack of substance, which was the grounds for my accusation? Not only does that not make any logical sense, it also feels like exactly what you just accused me of doing. Sorry, dont know what OMGUS is, i will search An apology... says he will search instead of just searching for the damn thing. Fluff.About the 23% odds, i didnt read that..... because of the time that it took me to type, i'll will make sure to check new replies before i post something that took a litle bit of time to type Does not address JingleHell and posts irrelevant information - "I'll make sure to read before I post..." More fluff/half-hearted accusations. + Show Spoiler [Response to Harry] +On July 05 2012 09:02 TMG26 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 05 2012 08:53 YourHarry wrote:
A. He thinks I am trying to mislynch. (False)
B. I am not participating in case based on substantial evidence (True, but not my fault probably) Thanks for the welcome A: We cant know for sure what you are trying to do, a statment like "i'm not trying to mislynch" is worth notting... scum wont say they are trying to mislynch B: Well, there no eveindence that he wanted to start a bandwagon, there was only a acusation of lazer's contradiction, BUT you told us what you tought about it... thats your opinion, so its recorded nowWhat?! What's even the point of that.What i believe he condemns you most is for the "early" vote... And then you came with the odds not being bad..................... Further indecision Makes another overly diplomatic/indecisive/fluff post that points suspicions to JingleHell and Harry + Show Spoiler [Another Diplomatic/Accusatory Post] +On July 05 2012 10:49 TMG26 wrote:
Even if it is Plurality Lynch, there's still 40 hours left
And its again funny to see that Hopeless jumped on your defence... After you had already voted harry after harry voted hopeless
In my mind, you and harry are the prime suspects..but only a few hours have passed, and i dont want to jump into bad conclusions I have less of a case on Mackin, but his first post is very very suspicious. Inaccurate/Bandwagon post on LazerMonkey. + Show Spoiler +On July 05 2012 07:06 Mackin wrote:
Hey guys, just putting it out there Lazer is already on my FoS list and we're only just beginning, long contradictory post with almost too much effort put in. Underlined part is simply not true. The post only has one contradiction, and it isn't very long. Criticizing someone for putting "almost too much effort" into posting is a huge red flag. This sounds like someone who saw someone's criticism of a lone contradiction and immediately jumped on the bandwagon without any analysis. Very anti-town mentality.
His next few posts are comprised of one-liners and fluff: + Show Spoiler +On July 05 2012 07:17 Mackin wrote:
HellJingle, that's an interesting name... On July 05 2012 07:28 Mackin wrote:
On July 05 2012 07:22 Hopeless1der wrote:
Mackin give the poor guy a chance, he's just a little excited I think. I just wanted to give him a heads up so he checks his posts more carefully, that way we can narrow down our scum lists earlier rather than later.
Fair enough point, but I just want to stir up some conversation to get people talking. Ain't that what Mafia's all about?  On July 05 2012 07:56 Mackin wrote:
@Harry We have a clever one here methinks. I'm going to put aside the babble between the loudest players who are having a stupid disagreement about getting people to talk vs how it's useless fluff. TMG is clearly new, not a native speaker and deserves some BOTD. My FOS is on Mackin for trying to light up fires and disappearing as town burns. His thoughtless posting reminds me so much of mafia behavior. What is this? Stupid disagreement? This is like the strangest post ever. You first decide that all you the originall discussion is just a stupid disagreement, you don't even comment on it. Saying that all discussion before this post(page 10) is about getting people to talk vs how it's useless fluff. is a lie.
You are completely dismissing the case on TMG because he is
1.) new (played two games already)
2.) english is not his mother tongue(can you please show me where you had a hard time understanding what he was saying).
None of these are actually arguments for why TMG is not scum tho.
You then start to put pressure on Mackin out of all players. I don't see how his only few post atm left town burning. Noone even took notice of them untill later. Basically Mackin is a lurker at this point, why focus on him? Also what part of the posting reminds you of mafia behavior?
You are trying to pull the action away from where it really matters and instead point it towards a lurker, an attempt to slow down town progress.
On July 06 2012 02:37 JieXian wrote:
Let's focus on lurkers like Mackin ATM. I know I might qualify as one but I have nothing to add to the lazer/hapa vs hopeless/release/jingle babbling More on Mackin.
[B]On July 06 2012 18:14 JieXian wrote: Show nested quote +On July 06 2012 10:55 Hopeless1der wrote:
I get how my claiming it was a huge case pissed you off and drove you to attack me back, but the issue was still fresh and I didn't want it getting brushed off for being a weak/half-assed read. I don't get how its anti-town to point out things I find suspicious. How else are we supposed to hunt scum if no one makes a read on different people? Do you think you've got all 3 scum locked down already or something? Maybe I should never contradict anyone ever again. lololololololol you're right. I played NMMXIII with hopeless and this doesn't sound like him at all #Vote Hopeless
I'm not sure if this is a joke, but if it isn't... Bandwagon much?
Overall, this guy has it all. Lurks, tries to kill discussion about scum hunting, WIFOM accusations against lurkers and bandwagoning(assuming he wasn't joking). The only thing that somewhat points towards him being town is that his teammates probebly would be kinda upset with such a bad play and thus told him to step his posting up...
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Am I the only one who wonder where JingleHell disappeared? Starting of as THE most active player in the game, he quickly dropped of when he got unvoted by YourHarry. Since then he have only posted 4 times. The second one is this:
On July 05 2012 23:08 JingleHell wrote:
I do wish we could stop looking at Lazer's first post as "contradictory". Actually, for that matter, I wish we would leave alone all the initial burst of posting, the entire purpose is to get people talking, which was accomplished. Frankly, I don't think Lazer's first post felt scummy, because while it was only very basic, it was an effort to do the same thing I accomplished by bringing up sex toys. I've just discovered that something meaningless works better.
Instead of cluttering things up, I'll just say that Bass and Lazer's analysis on TMG sounds good, and I'll be interested in seeing what he has to say.
So instead of actually answering any of the questions from me he starts getting nice etc. My first post was not contradictory, I have already said that a dozen of times, you don't need to tell me that. This just feels like him wanting to avoid any questions.
You are just posting town reads all over the place. I made a quick overlook at Newbie XVIII where you were town and it looked like you were posting quite alot of suspicions and not many town reads at all. This game is the complete oppsosite. You havn't taken any clear stance on who you are suspicious of yet. You only mention those who you think is town. This is great scum play, as when they get misslynched/killed, you will look better for claiming they were innocent.
I am still VERY suspicious of you Jingle...
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On July 06 2012 22:33 JingleHell wrote:I'm not playing nice, I'm telling them to make cases on you not be grounded on something that's clearly down to how you read it. There were never any cases on me. Thing is, my post have been discussed alot up to this point. I have CLEARLY stated what I meant and that there weren't any contradictions in the post. You are stating the obvious.
On July 06 2012 22:33 JingleHell wrote:I'm not bothering to post here as much because frankly, I'd rather watch people post when it looks like a half schitzo paranoid delusional 3 headed monster shouting at itself. Don't like it, maybe people should stop making 30 second cases and then chasing the next person that posts around. Intresting. Because you were one of the persons posting ALOT in the start of the thread aka when we had a half schitzo paranoid delusional 3 headed monster shouting at itself.. Now when the thread is on halt, you don't post alot at all. So you are in a way not living up to your own statement here.
On July 06 2012 22:33 JingleHell wrote:If you're so suspicious of me, do us all a favor, vote for me, and watch me flip green. It'll be tons of information that nobody will use. My vote is on you atm, so don't worry : ).
Your defense is not impressive. Basically what you are saying: don't lynch me becuase I'm townie. This is just bad. Why do you ignore the questions i asked you once again? You havn't made any scum reads what so ever.
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On July 06 2012 23:39 JingleHell wrote:You have yet to ask me anything worth my time or effort in answering, but feel free to get me mislynched. Your such a convincing town player!
On July 06 2012 23:39 JingleHell wrote:I never claimed not to have been part of the shouting earlier, but it's gotten much much worse, since now everyone talking a lot is accusing almost everyone else who isn't. So you don't think lurking is bad? What do you mean with this? Yes, some have been calling out lurkers for their play. Lurking is not good for town so I don't feel any bad with it as long as you aren't ONLY focusing on lurkers. Btw, care to give examples of everyone talking a lot is accusing almost everyone else who isn't.?
On July 06 2012 23:39 JingleHell wrote:Me personally, I'll be enjoying seeing what comes at the end of the day, as it will provide us with plenty of information. I thought we were supposed to lynch scum?
On July 06 2012 23:39 JingleHell wrote:For the time being, though, ##Vote Lazermonkey
It's got to be somewhere, and your self-love and expectation that everyone else will dance to your tune strikes me as scummy Random OMGUS + Vote! Nice! The only person I know is 100% town is myself, thus i want my ideas to be promoted as they will most likely help town.
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On July 06 2012 23:58 Release wrote:caught up; I think Meta is a horrible form of analysis. + Show Spoiler +Defending me based on my previous games is quite shit. But, ingoring the meta, the case on hope1 is still fairly good. Since i should be back 15 minutes before the deadline, i'll leave my vote on Lazer for now. One word: deceitful and Jingle is pulling a half-grush, which i think is never good for town. Wow, nice response there dude. You really broke down every piece my defence(read: sarcasm...).
Care to comment on me post at all?
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On July 07 2012 00:27 BassInSpace wrote:
Jingle, are you saying you don't think Hopeless is scum? If you think this is a mislynch, mind telling us why exactly you think Hopeless is town?
Also FYI Lazer, Jingle was mafia in NMM XVIII, not town. Owlol, missed that part -.-. Well, I guess at least meta is pointing in the right direction then.
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Jingle what info will we get from you, assuming you flip town? You havn't posted any scum reads(except for me I guess).
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On July 07 2012 01:06 JingleHell wrote:Show nested quote +On July 07 2012 00:54 Lazermonkey wrote:
Jingle what info will we get from you, assuming you flip town? You havn't posted any scum reads(except for me I guess). You'll get the info of who led a theoretical case against me based off of smoke and mirrors. I would have thought that was obvious, although it might be a bit too substantial for most of the people who took over the thread by screaming at anyone who posted. You'll get the info of who votes where. And you'll get the info that I'm still unimpressed by anyone who bases a case off of my (actually succesful) means of getting conversation started. Oh wait, that's been available for a while now. But like I said, I'm not in the mood to slam repeatedly against circular logic, so I'm waiting to see how the D1 lynch goes, at which point there will be more info to make a read off of. I am doing a case against you because I think you are scummy. I will push people I think are scummy. If they flip green because they play bad, i can't be blamed for that.
We will get vote count info no matter who we vote. It's not like your special in any way.
The third one is not even info. And I don't agree with that you were the person to get discussion going. Hope and yourHarry were imo the ones who did that.
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On July 07 2012 01:15 JingleHell wrote:Show nested quote +On July 07 2012 01:11 Lazermonkey wrote:On July 07 2012 01:06 JingleHell wrote:On July 07 2012 00:54 Lazermonkey wrote:
Jingle what info will we get from you, assuming you flip town? You havn't posted any scum reads(except for me I guess). You'll get the info of who led a theoretical case against me based off of smoke and mirrors. I would have thought that was obvious, although it might be a bit too substantial for most of the people who took over the thread by screaming at anyone who posted. You'll get the info of who votes where. And you'll get the info that I'm still unimpressed by anyone who bases a case off of my (actually succesful) means of getting conversation started. Oh wait, that's been available for a while now. But like I said, I'm not in the mood to slam repeatedly against circular logic, so I'm waiting to see how the D1 lynch goes, at which point there will be more info to make a read off of. I am doing a case against you because I think you are scummy. I will push people I think are scummy. If they flip green because they play bad, i can't be blamed for that. Playing badly? Like excessively prolific posts with "reads" based off of nothing, pointing fingers in a million directions at once, creating chaos, and picking and choosing what posts to analyze? Yeah, you actually can be blamed for that. Yup, I will not be tunneling one player untill he dies unless I am 100% sure he is scum. There are more players than you who appear scummy than you. You are however most scummy out of these persons atm and therefore you have my vote.
Also, scum will not slip or push their agenda in every post, that is for sure. So obviously I will only comment on things I see as scummy.
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EBWOP: Where is my reads based on nothing?
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Okay, I will go soon and may or may not be at home at the deadline. I will have my phone tho so I am able to check the thread and swap my vote if that is necessary. I will keep my vote on Jingle as of now, although that may change during the rest of the day. I will also change my vote to most scummy person in case there is a close voting. Here is my wish list for people I want dead:
1. Jingle.
2. JieXian
3. Hope/TMG
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On July 07 2012 01:28 JieXian wrote:Show nested quote +On July 06 2012 20:02 Lazermonkey wrote:One player who have gotten mostly onnoticed so far is JieXian. His filter is quite short, I suggest you go read it. Half of it contains filler and the other half is crazy bad. On July 06 2012 02:31 JieXian wrote:On July 05 2012 19:21 Hapahauli wrote:Un-FOS JingleHellAs I've taken some time to cool down a bit, I'm growing worried that this thread is going to turn into a giant post-bang between the four most active/reckless players on the thread so far (YourHarry, JingleHell, Release, LazerMonkey, and Me). Such a situation would be extremely harmful to the town and would let the Mafia sit in the shadows while we war over one another. Perhaps we can turn our attention to two suspicious posts by some lurkers in an effort to get them to speak up: TMG26His first post is rife with a desire to look helpless, lots of fluff, and indecision (my commentary is bolded). + Show Spoiler [First Post] +On July 05 2012 08:38 TMG26 wrote:
It's a 13 player game, and only 3 mobsters, so there is still a room for a litle mistake on day1
Megafluff, and downplaying the importance of day 1 reads
With a random vote on day 1 the probability of hitting scum is low, but missing wont be that dangerous, the question that i want to make is: With this low ratio of scum, does the nolynch becomes more or less viable?
I'm still a newbie in mafia games, thats one of the reasons of asking this questing
trying to look helpless
And sorry about my bad english, i'm not a native speaker
more helplessness
About what being happening here..
Lazer was not clear on what he said, Hopeless stated that, and yourHarry immidiatly voted Hopeless for that
So, in my opinion if we want to catch the scum we have to confront them, so i Hopeless did the right thing...But so did yourHarry, what i find funny was JingleHell jumping in to declare FoS on yourHarry
In my opinion Hopeless and yourHarry did almost same same thing
Note the language - "in my opinion" as opposed to saying it outright. Overly diplomatic and indecisive
My main suspects right now fall to yourHarry and JingleHell, because your acusations seammed more like a counter acusation after a "scum teammate" being acused
But is all still too light, a lot of people still havent spoken
Despite stating two suspects, immediately reverts to indecision When JingleHell replies to TMG26's passive accusation, TMG is apologetic, passive, and does not address the issue (commentary bolded again). + Show Spoiler [Response to JingleHell's Defense] +On July 05 2012 08:47 TMG26 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 05 2012 08:41 JingleHell wrote:
Wait, so my actual reasoning is supposed to be an OMGUS, and Harry's suggestion that 23% is gambling odds is only equally suspicious as my case?
When my case was based purely off of suspicious behavior, and my defense was based on the lack of substance, which was the grounds for my accusation? Not only does that not make any logical sense, it also feels like exactly what you just accused me of doing. Sorry, dont know what OMGUS is, i will search An apology... says he will search instead of just searching for the damn thing. Fluff.About the 23% odds, i didnt read that..... because of the time that it took me to type, i'll will make sure to check new replies before i post something that took a litle bit of time to type Does not address JingleHell and posts irrelevant information - "I'll make sure to read before I post..." More fluff/half-hearted accusations. + Show Spoiler [Response to Harry] +On July 05 2012 09:02 TMG26 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 05 2012 08:53 YourHarry wrote:
A. He thinks I am trying to mislynch. (False)
B. I am not participating in case based on substantial evidence (True, but not my fault probably) Thanks for the welcome A: We cant know for sure what you are trying to do, a statment like "i'm not trying to mislynch" is worth notting... scum wont say they are trying to mislynch B: Well, there no eveindence that he wanted to start a bandwagon, there was only a acusation of lazer's contradiction, BUT you told us what you tought about it... thats your opinion, so its recorded nowWhat?! What's even the point of that.What i believe he condemns you most is for the "early" vote... And then you came with the odds not being bad..................... Further indecision Makes another overly diplomatic/indecisive/fluff post that points suspicions to JingleHell and Harry + Show Spoiler [Another Diplomatic/Accusatory Post] +On July 05 2012 10:49 TMG26 wrote:
Even if it is Plurality Lynch, there's still 40 hours left
And its again funny to see that Hopeless jumped on your defence... After you had already voted harry after harry voted hopeless
In my mind, you and harry are the prime suspects..but only a few hours have passed, and i dont want to jump into bad conclusions I have less of a case on Mackin, but his first post is very very suspicious. Inaccurate/Bandwagon post on LazerMonkey. + Show Spoiler +On July 05 2012 07:06 Mackin wrote:
Hey guys, just putting it out there Lazer is already on my FoS list and we're only just beginning, long contradictory post with almost too much effort put in. Underlined part is simply not true. The post only has one contradiction, and it isn't very long. Criticizing someone for putting "almost too much effort" into posting is a huge red flag. This sounds like someone who saw someone's criticism of a lone contradiction and immediately jumped on the bandwagon without any analysis. Very anti-town mentality.
His next few posts are comprised of one-liners and fluff: + Show Spoiler +On July 05 2012 07:17 Mackin wrote:
HellJingle, that's an interesting name... On July 05 2012 07:28 Mackin wrote:
On July 05 2012 07:22 Hopeless1der wrote:
Mackin give the poor guy a chance, he's just a little excited I think. I just wanted to give him a heads up so he checks his posts more carefully, that way we can narrow down our scum lists earlier rather than later.
Fair enough point, but I just want to stir up some conversation to get people talking. Ain't that what Mafia's all about? On July 05 2012 07:56 Mackin wrote:
@Harry We have a clever one here methinks. I'm going to put aside the babble between the loudest players who are having a stupid disagreement about getting people to talk vs how it's useless fluff. TMG is clearly new, not a native speaker and deserves some BOTD. My FOS is on Mackin for trying to light up fires and disappearing as town burns. His thoughtless posting reminds me so much of mafia behavior. What is this? Stupid disagreement? This is like the strangest post ever. You first decide that all you the originall discussion is just a stupid disagreement, you don't even comment on it. Saying that all discussion before this post(page 10) is about getting people to talk vs how it's useless fluff. is a lie. You are completely dismissing the case on TMG because he is 1.) new (played two games already) 2.) english is not his mother tongue(can you please show me where you had a hard time understanding what he was saying). None of these are actually arguments for why TMG is not scum tho. You then start to put pressure on Mackin out of all players. I don't see how his only few post atm left town burning. Noone even took notice of them untill later. Basically Mackin is a lurker at this point, why focus on him? Also what part of the posting reminds you of mafia behavior? You are trying to pull the action away from where it really matters and instead point it towards a lurker, an attempt to slow down town progress. On July 06 2012 02:37 JieXian wrote:
Let's focus on lurkers like Mackin ATM. I know I might qualify as one but I have nothing to add to the lazer/hapa vs hopeless/release/jingle babbling More on Mackin. On July 06 2012 18:14 JieXian wrote:
On July 06 2012 10:55 Hopeless1der wrote:
I get how my claiming it was a huge case pissed you off and drove you to attack me back, but the issue was still fresh and I didn't want it getting brushed off for being a weak/half-assed read. I don't get how its anti-town to point out things I find suspicious. How else are we supposed to hunt scum if no one makes a read on different people? Do you think you've got all 3 scum locked down already or something? Maybe I should never contradict anyone ever again.
lololololololol you're right. I played NMMXIII with hopeless and this doesn't sound like him at all
#Vote Hopeless I'm not sure if this is a joke, but if it isn't... Bandwagon much? Overall, this guy has it all. Lurks, tries to kill discussion about scum hunting, WIFOM accusations against lurkers and bandwagoning(assuming he wasn't joking). The only thing that somewhat points towards him being town is that his teammates probebly would be kinda upset with such a bad play and thus told him to step his posting up... ok this is funny I've never felt sleepy while being accused before. The first 10 pages didn't have anything interesting for me to notice to make "reads" on. Let me rephrase about TMG, I found his post hard to understand and I'd assume that says something about his comprehension, and hence I'm not going to jump on him yet until I have more information, [b]This part got me curious. Tell me, where does the action "really matter"? The more on Mackin would be part of the same post had I been able to edit. You are a joke. It's a discussion. I read through his filter and found something that fits hapa's analysis. I find it a bit funny that you didn't find anything on the first 10 pages that were intresting but you were able to accuse Mackin even tho he only had 1 minor post really.
Cool rephrase. Owait, it wasn't. Why did you even say that in the first place then? You could have
A) Ignored the issue
B) Argued
For example TMG/YourHarry/Hope/Jingle/Me were people under some fire during those 10 pages.
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On July 07 2012 01:34 JingleHell wrote:Show nested quote +On July 07 2012 01:31 Lazermonkey wrote:
Okay, I will go soon and may or may not be at home at the deadline. I will have my phone tho so I am able to check the thread and swap my vote if that is necessary. I will keep my vote on Jingle as of now, although that may change during the rest of the day. I will also change my vote to most scummy person in case there is a close voting. Here is my wish list for people I want dead:
1. Jingle.
2. JieXian
3. Hope/TMG
Oh look, asks for an explanation, gets it, and says he has to go without responding. Almost sounds like Jiexian in XVIII a couple of times, where he posted in the QT for like 3 hours after telling the thread he was going to sleep. Did I mention he was scum in that game? The amount of WIFOM in this post in beyond possible. It's friday evening in sweden atm. Yes, I am going soon.
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On July 07 2012 01:29 JingleHell wrote:Show nested quote +On July 07 2012 01:24 Lazermonkey wrote:
EBWOP: Where is my reads based on nothing? Show nested quote +On July 05 2012 09:54 Lazermonkey wrote:+ Show Spoiler +I'm getting suspicious of Jingle. On July 05 2012 06:43 JingleHell wrote:
So, since Lazer already opened with the pre-requisite long-winded "Please don't lynch me" post, I'd feel silly making a similar one, so instead, I'm going to open by asking Evulrabbitz why his name references a sex toy. After that question, of course, it suddenly feels awkward, but unless he can answer it well, FoS Evulrabbitz 1st post. Instead of commenting on my post he starts to ridicule it, effectivly killing discussion about it. Instead he is the first one to start shit up the thread with sex-toy w/e. Also, instead of posting his own reads he says I'd feel silly making a similar one which doesn't make any sense at all. I'd much rather have a post about your thought's on scum hunting rather than sex toys. At least when we are playing mafia... The next couple of posts he is effectivly fills half the thread with his talk about Evul being a perv and what not. On July 05 2012 07:56 JingleHell wrote:
Well, Hopeless, since you're at least talking, I don't think you're scum yet. However, if day1 lurkers start causing trouble, I'm all for just throwing the dice and lynching one just to make a clear point.
Also, just as wonky meta, compared to your D1 play in XIX, I'm pretty sure you're town here. You're not afraid of prolific D1 posting, among other things.
Actually, I'm VERY suspicious about YourHarry's lightning fast vote. Could be a throwaway effort to get a bandwagon started, since D1 voting is nonsense in newbie games. In the case of a mislynch, it would be easy to argue away. If you would write this as a first time player I could be somewhat cool with it. But you are not. We want to lynch scum, not lurkers. And we absolutly don't want to roll the dice. And I really don't see how you are very suspicious about the vote. There were ~50 hours untill deadline when he threw the vote. How is this even close to start a bandwagon? Like wtf? On July 05 2012 08:05 JingleHell wrote:
EBWOP: And Harry, don't try to turn my logic around on me, my vote was based on your suspicious vote.
Your quote on Hopeless wasn't what I'd call a real reason to vote for someone who's at least being active, and not particularly suspicious.
Voting for him that way makes you look scummy, considering you've said nothing of real substance yet. But at this point you only had one minor post of substance as well. On July 05 2012 08:13 JingleHell wrote:
I couldn't care less how many games you've played on mafiascum. As it turns out, in newbie games on TL, D1 bandwagons have a tendency to be lethal, particularly if there's no substance to the case to defend against. As such, it's better to target someone who's being either actively or passively useless, not somebody who's at least jumping into the deep end.
In particular, compared to his play in a different game, where he seemed painfully scummy, Hopeless1der seems like he's heading for direct contribution. I don't get this post. I may be missunderstanding this but if there is no substance to the case then why would that even be considered a case? And why on earth would someone ever get lynched by such a ''case'' On July 05 2012 08:13 JingleHell wrote:
I couldn't care less how many games you've played on mafiascum. As it turns out, in newbie games on TL, D1 bandwagons have a tendency to be lethal, particularly if there's no substance to the case to defend against. As such, it's better to target someone who's being either actively or passively useless, not somebody who's at least jumping into the deep end.
In particular, compared to his play in a different game, where he seemed painfully scummy, Hopeless1der seems like he's heading for direct contribution. Once again, there is no threat of a bandwagon at all. Why do you keep saying that? What I find maybe most intresting is how you start the game by shitting up the thread and literally don't post a single usefull thing. When the first vote get thrown tho, You go ''WTF DUDE, VOTING IZ NOT COOL''. No, I agree that the reasoning behind the vote to begin with was verrrry vauge but I don't really see why you get so upset about it ESPICIALLY since it's not even on you. ##Vote JingleHell You target me for a laundry list of things. A: You're offended that I blew off your rather annoying policy post that, you'll notice, nobody else liked either. B: You don't like me saying that excessive lurking, in absence of clear scumreads, is a valid reason to lynch. C: You don't have the capacity for sufficient critical though to realize that in a plurality lynch game, an early bandwagon can easily stick. Your entire initial "read" against me was based on fluff, taking me out of context, and ignoring reality. Why should I bother paying any attention to you later, when you continue to tunnel me, while decrying tunnel vision?
A: No, you don't read. I offend you bacause talking about sex toys is 100x worse than talking about blues/policy in regards to scum hunting
B: How you cannot how scum reads at this point is impressive.
C: No, not with 48 hours untill lynch. Right now, yes probebly. But not then.
You contradict yourself. in your last post you said I accused everyone. Now you say I tunnel you.
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See you guys some time. Will go now...
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Posting from phone. Jingle, before I started pressuring you didn't have any scum reads or suspiciouns. You only posted town reads all over the place. Yoy said the case against TMG were good but you didn't pressure at all ans didn't call him scum or vote him.
I don't get what you mean with ''can't get C and B work at the same time. Doesn't C refer to the start of the game where you and others used the threat of a bandwagon as an argument against agast YourHarrys early vote?
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EPT
