EPTNewbie Mini Mafia XX
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Lazermonkey
Sweden2176 Posts
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Lazermonkey
Sweden2176 Posts
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Lazermonkey
Sweden2176 Posts
On a more serious note, we want this ship rollin' as fast as possible. Discussing policy is not scumhunting but it does at least help us get the discussion going. First off, something we want to avoid as town is Vanillas claiming blue roles. In both my last game and Newbie Mini Mafia XVIII there were Vanillas who claimed blue roles(DTs). Both times town ended in an bad spot (although not as bad as it could've been due to luck). But this should still be avoided at all costs as it can cause massive damage to town. Why? Well let's say a vanilla townie claims DT, and then the real DT claims because the vanilla is lying. As it doesn't make sense for vanillas to claim blue roles, we must assume that one of theese players is scum and the other one is the real DT.Two following scenarios can occur here 1). The townie gets lynched. which means that the other person is probebly the real DT, this must however not be true. 2). The DT gets lynched, which means that the vanilla townie will 100% get lynched the next day. While 2 is far worse than 1 they are still both very bad for town. There really isn't a situation you want to fakeclaim as a townie. If you don't agree with this please let me know. If noone disagrees I will assume that no townie is ever fake claiming a blue role. Obviously there are situations where you might want to claim as blue. I will also copy a part of my first post from my last game(where I was DT) since I am lazy. Regarding lynches: I really really dislike nolynching for three reasons. 1. because the information that we are able to get out of it is very limited. Yes, we avoid a potential misslynch but on the other hand scum will score a more or less a free-kill during night. Essentially, we are back on D1 but this time we are in a 6-2 instead of a 7-2. 2. If we agree to nolynch then what is there to discuss? It's like asking for people to lurk even more. 3. With no vigilante in the game the only way we can win is to lynch scum. Kinda obvious but still. We require 5+ votes in order to get a lynch done. With that in mind I hope that people are willing to vote for someone who isn't their top 1 scum. Obviously, if you REALLY don't think there is any chance that the person that is about to be lynched can be scum, then sure, don't vote him. But if it seems like your target hardly gets any votes and your second highest scumread is at 4 votes with 30 minutes untill deadline, then I think you should swap your vote onto him. Lurkers!: There are two types of lurkers. The ones who doesn't post anything and the sneaky ones, who posts ALOT but nothing of value. The first category could either be bad town play or scum play. But the second category is almost exclusivly scum play. If you are a townie, speak your mind, don't make a super duper long post when you could've said it on just a few lines. Keep it simple. With that being said, post! | ||
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Lazermonkey
Sweden2176 Posts
On July 05 2012 06:59 Hopeless1der wrote: @Lazer, you're already contradicting yourself and its only one post: Geez it was even in the same paragraph. Which one is it?! What do you mean? I don't see a contradiction here... | ||
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Lazermonkey
Sweden2176 Posts
On July 05 2012 07:22 Hopeless1der wrote: What?...I...Its right there..with the underlined.. - There really isn't a situation you want to fakeclaim as a townie - Obviously there are situations where you might want to claim as blue Is that not a contradiction? or did you mean actually claim as blue, not fakeclaim, because that's literally the only way those two statements don't conflict with one another. Mackin give the poor guy a chance, he's just a little excited I think. I just wanted to give him a heads up so he checks his posts more carefully, that way we can narrow down our scum lists earlier rather than later. I thought it would be obvious that I meant Obviously there are situations where you might want to claim as blue(when playing blue). The post doesn't make any sense at all otherwise... | ||
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Lazermonkey
Sweden2176 Posts
The only post concerning the game was Mackin saying that he thought I was contradicting myself, although never explained why. | ||
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Lazermonkey
Sweden2176 Posts
On July 05 2012 08:58 Release wrote: I think YourHarry is Grush's new alias. Ignoring the copy-pasted policy stuff for now, Why on earth did you even post that scenario stuff about a VT fake-claiming a DT or blue? There was absolutely no indication that anyone had even planned on that (especially considering you had the first post). If anything, you have just shown people something they can do (to the detriment of the town). And why go through the casework? It's just fluff and you know it. This is very much a post looking like a contribution, while being a non-contribution, or even an anti-contribution. Im pretty sure, again, that no one was even remotely close to voting in a way to force a nolynch. I love the bolded line; you could have kept this post simple and concise. But you decided to make it "super-duper long." ##vote: Lazermonkey Yourharry, you should do more than OMGUS. You are definitely rivaling, for scumminess, against lazer. Fos: yourharry Fos: lazermonkey But yet both in our last game plus Newbie XVIII there were people claiming DT when they were vanilla townies. This is ULTRA BAD play, and I really don't know why you would ever do that. Still both of them did that. The reason the post became long is that I really wanted to emphasize and explain how terribly bad it is for someone to claim blue when they are VT and argue why that is instead of just saying, ''don't claim blue when townie''. I don't see how my post is anti-contribution. | ||
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Lazermonkey
Sweden2176 Posts
On July 05 2012 06:43 JingleHell wrote: So, since Lazer already opened with the pre-requisite long-winded "Please don't lynch me" post, I'd feel silly making a similar one, so instead, I'm going to open by asking Evulrabbitz why his name references a sex toy. After that question, of course, it suddenly feels awkward, but unless he can answer it well, FoS Evulrabbitz 1st post. Instead of commenting on my post he starts to ridicule it, effectivly killing discussion about it. Instead he is the first one to start shit up the thread with sex-toy w/e. Also, instead of posting his own reads he says I'd feel silly making a similar one which doesn't make any sense at all. I'd much rather have a post about your thought's on scum hunting rather than sex toys. At least when we are playing mafia... The next couple of posts he is effectivly fills half the thread with his talk about Evul being a perv and what not. On July 05 2012 07:56 JingleHell wrote: Well, Hopeless, since you're at least talking, I don't think you're scum yet. However, if day1 lurkers start causing trouble, I'm all for just throwing the dice and lynching one just to make a clear point. Also, just as wonky meta, compared to your D1 play in XIX, I'm pretty sure you're town here. You're not afraid of prolific D1 posting, among other things. Actually, I'm VERY suspicious about YourHarry's lightning fast vote. Could be a throwaway effort to get a bandwagon started, since D1 voting is nonsense in newbie games. In the case of a mislynch, it would be easy to argue away. If you would write this as a first time player I could be somewhat cool with it. But you are not. We want to lynch scum, not lurkers. And we absolutly don't want to roll the dice. And I really don't see how you are very suspicious about the vote. There were ~50 hours untill deadline when he threw the vote. How is this even close to start a bandwagon? Like wtf? On July 05 2012 08:05 JingleHell wrote: EBWOP: And Harry, don't try to turn my logic around on me, my vote was based on your suspicious vote. Your quote on Hopeless wasn't what I'd call a real reason to vote for someone who's at least being active, and not particularly suspicious. Voting for him that way makes you look scummy, considering you've said nothing of real substance yet. But at this point you only had one minor post of substance as well. On July 05 2012 08:13 JingleHell wrote: I couldn't care less how many games you've played on mafiascum. As it turns out, in newbie games on TL, D1 bandwagons have a tendency to be lethal, particularly if there's no substance to the case to defend against. As such, it's better to target someone who's being either actively or passively useless, not somebody who's at least jumping into the deep end. In particular, compared to his play in a different game, where he seemed painfully scummy, Hopeless1der seems like he's heading for direct contribution. I don't get this post. I may be missunderstanding this but if there is no substance to the case then why would that even be considered a case? And why on earth would someone ever get lynched by such a ''case'' On July 05 2012 08:13 JingleHell wrote: I couldn't care less how many games you've played on mafiascum. As it turns out, in newbie games on TL, D1 bandwagons have a tendency to be lethal, particularly if there's no substance to the case to defend against. As such, it's better to target someone who's being either actively or passively useless, not somebody who's at least jumping into the deep end. In particular, compared to his play in a different game, where he seemed painfully scummy, Hopeless1der seems like he's heading for direct contribution. Once again, there is no threat of a bandwagon at all. Why do you keep saying that? What I find maybe most intresting is how you start the game by shitting up the thread and literally don't post a single usefull thing. When the first vote get thrown tho, You go ''WTF DUDE, VOTING IZ NOT COOL''. No, I agree that the reasoning behind the vote to begin with was verrrry vauge but I don't really see why you get so upset about it ESPICIALLY since it's not even on you. ##Vote JingleHell | ||
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Lazermonkey
Sweden2176 Posts
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Lazermonkey
Sweden2176 Posts
On July 05 2012 10:19 JingleHell wrote: I can't decide what to laugh at first, but at least now people are explaining votes. If you want to see what showed me that early voting with no rationalization at all is bad, go see D1 XIX. Ridiculous mislynch, because of votes with zero substance. You clearly are not getting the point here. Noone has even been close to getting lynched yet. | ||
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Lazermonkey
Sweden2176 Posts
On July 05 2012 11:08 Release wrote: are you outing Jingle as your scumbuddy? or maybe trying to drag him down with you? YOU ARE SO CONFUSING. OMGUS. Why are you promoting your first post as a discussion starter? It isn't. It is an attempt to brainwash unsuspecting townies and get us talking about useless things. I commend him for shutting your down your post with this authority. If you are actually using the discussion of sex toys as a reason to call him scum, you really are just grasping at straws for lack of any real substance. No matter how bad a first post is, it is a discussion starter, no? And I don't even agree with it being bad because of reasons I've already staten at this point. And if my post is to get town to start talking about useless things, what is Jingle's post then? you can't possibly think that discussing policy or w/e is WORSE than discussing sex toys in a scum hunting perspective. And yes, I am using the fact that he and Evul to shit up the thread somewhat as a reason for my suspicion. Not only is he not scum hunting/discussing the game, he is also posting filler which makes it harder to read the thread. On July 05 2012 11:08 Release wrote:In terms of day1, i don't think setting a tone on lynching lurkers is necessarily a bad thing. should we decide on lynching a lurker, the lurkers will feel a need to speak up in order to avoid getting the lynch. In other words, saying "let's lynch lurkers" promotes discussion. And "to make a point" states exactly that. "speak up or die." Okay, this makes sense and I agree. On July 05 2012 11:08 Release wrote:Jingle should probably reply to the next part, but as far as i can see, it goes - OMGUS OMGUS OMGUS ##vote -##vote x 10 - no discussion, the guy who got OMGUS'd has nothing to attack/defend. Checkmate. Turns out, he was VT o.O First off, I strongly disagree with that the part you are refering to is based upon OMGUS. Instead of actually quoting what in the post you dislike you simply say it sucks... Way to go! Also you are spamming your own OMGUS at me, Still you are using my so called ''OMGUS'' against Jingle as an argument against me. Nice contradiction here. Also what is your stance on Jingle? You've been wish-washy like hell on that... On July 05 2012 11:08 Release wrote:are you outing Jingle as your scumbuddy? or maybe trying to drag him down with you? YOU ARE SO CONFUSING. OMGUS On July 05 2012 11:08 Release wrote:- no discussion, the guy[Jingle] who got OMGUS'd has nothing to attack/defend. Checkmate. Turns out, he was VT o.O On July 05 2012 11:08 Release wrote:That being said, Jingle has only made very light commitments and commented on very obvious/easy things. All in the same post -.- | ||
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Lazermonkey
Sweden2176 Posts
On July 05 2012 11:11 JingleHell wrote: Cool, instead of commenting on my case, you let Release do it instead. And Realese didn't even defend you, he simply said he was MORE suspicious of me than of you. Yeah, you pretty much nailed my point, Release. I actually already explained it, but they're ignoring it and burying it with more of this nonsense, so I'm not feeling particularly inclined to get into a shouting match with them. If the town has the slightest chance in hell this game, then people will see the sense in the responses I've already made. My light commitments and obvious easy comments are mostly because there's little to discuss without stooping to their level. If I don't play their game, and I don't want to get the bandwagon rolling violently over a towny, then the best thing to do is observe and respond, rather than letting myself get dragged into some OMGUS shouting match that only benefits scum. On July 05 2012 11:41 JingleHell wrote: Instead of commenting on the post, you call it a joke. You aren't impressing me at all. So a me too post that contributes nothing while taking me out of context is supposed to make me nervous? Yawn. The day1 voting reference was talking about people bandwagoning onto any case built on nothing, as I actually discussed. Which you completely ignored. It's like you dug through 20% of my filter and ignored all the inconvenient parts. You sound like Lazer's pet parrot. Like I said, if people D1 lynch me based off bad jokes like you and lazer's posts, the town is doomed anyways. You are avoiding to answer my case. Why is that? If it is a bad case, surely you would be able to argue that way and tell what parts of the case is so bad. Also please stop talk about XVIII and how bandwagon is bad for town. I don't care at all about XVIII, I care about this game. Yes bandwagons are bad for town but you don't need to say that 9000+ times. Also, as been said before, a bandwagon isn't started with 50-40 hours untill lynch. That's just you making things look much worse then it actually is. | ||
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Lazermonkey
Sweden2176 Posts
As for TMG I wouldn't even call him a lurker, at least not in comparison to some other players *hint*. His posting has in fact been okay given that we have only played for <24 hours. But looking at his posts he has for sure being suuuper safe with his posting. He is really afraid of calling anyone scum. Going back and forth never taking a clear stance anywhere. The prime example: On July 05 2012 08:38 TMG26 wrote: Lazer was not clear on what he said, Hopeless stated that, and yourHarry immidiatly voted Hopeless for that So, in my opinion if we want to catch the scum we have to confront them, so i Hopeless did the right thing...But so did yourHarry, what i find funny was JingleHell jumping in to declare FoS on yourHarry In my opinion Hopeless and yourHarry did almost same same thing My main suspects right now fall to yourHarry and JingleHell, because your acusations seammed more like a counter acusation after a "scum teammate" being acused But is all still too light, a lot of people still havent spoken So harry did the right thing. Then he is still your prime suspect Then it's all still too light, a lot of people still havent spoken. Note the massive indecisiveness. Why do you care? You are fully capable to take on stance on Harry before everyone have posted. You are testing waters here instead of taking a bold stance. Overall Mackin is kinda null for me although with the slightest scum vibes due to his first post. I consider him a lurker atm and he really needs to post more before I make a clear read. TMG on the other hand i feel is playing in a very anti-town way. I'd say he is my number 2 scumread after Jingle atm. | ||
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Lazermonkey
Sweden2176 Posts
Hapa seemed to think that TMG is a lurker which i didn't agree with. His posting has in fact been okay given that we have only played for <24 hours. refers to the fact that the lenght of his filter isn't too bad. However I explain in my post that the content in is post is scummy. | ||
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Lazermonkey
Sweden2176 Posts
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Lazermonkey
Sweden2176 Posts
On July 05 2012 23:39 Release wrote: discalimer: i've only read up to this point: A "discussion-starter" that is used to talk about useless information/ideas can be very detrimental to the town. If that discussion starter actually caught some serious traction, we may have ended up spending ~24 hours talking about VTs claiming as blues and blues claiming, and whatnot. If you actually think the discussion about sex toys is designed to shit up the thread, i don't know what to say. It's maybe a page long, it shut down your attempt (in an awkward fashion), and he hasn't tried to rehash it once it died off I really don't see how a post like that can be dangerous to town. Of the 4 latest Newbie Mini Mafia, 2 of them had VT fakeclaiming DT. A bad trend to say the least. I just wanted to say that this is ultra bad town play. Also look at the post. I'm basically saying''Don't fakeclaim as Vanilla, if you don't agree with me let me know''. The reason that part is so long is because I wanted to explain WHY it's such a bad idea to do it. I think this is justifiable since we are playing in a newbie game. I can only speculate what motives there are behind the sex toy discussion. But that's not the point at all. We would gain far more by talking policy/blues than by talking about sex toys, no? Obviously, we want to scum hunt but this is hard to do when noone has even posted anything. On July 05 2012 23:39 Release wrote:My stance on jingle? Nope, I didn't forgot it. Yes he looks better than me but you also said I were your n1 scum read so that makes him anywhere from your n2 scumread to most likely townie(although I would guess that's not what you think of him judging by your posts so far). This is a quite wide range imo.The first part was a joke about you. The second one was a hypothetical scenario. The third one expresses my view. And you forgot to include the part where i said he looks better than you. | ||
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Lazermonkey
Sweden2176 Posts
First off, your english is good. I haven't had any problems with reading it so far and I don't really care about typos either. Hell, my english suck as well : ). For me, I don't really care who you suspect out of Jingle, Harry and Hope as long as you have a good reason for it. What DID confuse at least me and probebly some others is how you never took a stance on any of them. You said they made the right choice but still were scummy because of that. And in the end you said you didn't want to take a stance before there were more posts. This is scummy. The part about Release is meh. You don't really post much original thoughts. Most of it feels like a copy of Evuls earlier post. You only bring up one new point which is the one about sex toy. Also, Release is under FoS from a couple of players atm, so it isn't really a ground breaking move from you either. | ||
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Lazermonkey
Sweden2176 Posts
On July 06 2012 02:37 JieXian wrote: How can we really focus on Mackin atm? He has basically posted nothing atm. The only post which isn't useless is his first which I think is a bit suspicious. But other than that we have nothing to go on. He will post more and we will be able to judge his play. If he doesn't he will get modkilled/replaced anyway. Focus on what's happening in the thread rather than focusing on what's not there.Let's focus on lurkers like Mackin ATM. I know I might qualify as one but I have nothing to add to the lazer/hapa vs hopeless/release/jingle babbling | ||
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Lazermonkey
Sweden2176 Posts
On July 06 2012 00:00 Release wrote:This is kind of interesting You defend Lazer and try to downplay the importance of first posts (despite Lazer calling his own post bad). Where did I say that my own post was bad? o.O | ||
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Lazermonkey
Sweden2176 Posts
On July 06 2012 04:33 The_Zen_Man wrote:When Hopeless later states that he had no intention of anything like a bandwagon on Lazer, Mackin quickly change his opinion again, not mentioning anything about Lazer again, as his bandwagon failed. Mafia tends to want to not have opinions alone, and rather have some other people to back them up, while town has no reason to not go after someone alone. Your just making so many assumptions. Talking about how mafia will play is just impossible. Unless you are mafia. Instead of actually responding to what happends in the thread you choose to FoS a player who basically havn't said anything yet. | ||
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