EPTSSB-64 Mafia - Page 54
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Risen
United States7927 Posts
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s0Lstice
United States1832 Posts
he was town | ||
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Risen
United States7927 Posts
A town lynch that pretty much confirmed cephiro/dedede team as scum. What was grush doing for anyone this game? His lynch provides SO MUCH information considering how little he contributed. | ||
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s0Lstice
United States1832 Posts
Tali's flip was the one we needed to see. The problem is his flip meant gg. | ||
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Risen
United States7927 Posts
On July 08 2012 12:11 s0Lstice wrote: The people who needed to know grush was town already did. There was no need to kill him. He had a vig shot left to boot. Tali's flip was the one we needed to see. The problem is his flip meant gg. Wrong, because grush only had .5kp and tali still had 3. You had to go all in on tali being scum when you lynched him. With a grush lynch flipping town you still had options. | ||
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s0Lstice
United States1832 Posts
I can say that from my standpoint, actually seeing grush flip would not have stopped me from pushing for a Talis kill. Cephiro could not have pushed grush late after he was dead obviously, so there is a strong chance he would have chosen to go after Talis instead. Since I read Ceph and Talis as scum, I probably would have thought it was a last-ditch bus. Mr. S, I can't say for sure, but I think he still would have been on-board with Talis as well after a grush flip. They read Talis as scum all game. The only person who would know who the scum team was via grush flip was Talis. I suppose there is a chance he could have convinced me, but I really doubt it. My mind was just so closed to dedede being scum, and I wasted the opportunity to engage him during N2. All-in-all, I don't think it would have changed the outcome much. Still though, we may have had a slightly higher chance at winning with a dead grush. | ||
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Risen
United States7927 Posts
On July 08 2012 12:43 s0Lstice wrote: I just typed a bunch about how you are completely wrong, but that's not true. You are right in a way. I can say that from my standpoint, actually seeing grush flip would not have stopped me from pushing for a Talis kill. Cephiro could not have pushed grush late after he was dead obviously, so there is a strong chance he would have chosen to go after Talis instead. Since I read Ceph and Talis as scum, I probably would have thought it was a last-ditch bus. Mr. S, I can't say for sure, but I think he still would have been on-board with Talis as well after a grush flip. They read Talis as scum all game. The only person who would know who the scum team was via grush flip was Talis. I suppose there is a chance he could have convinced me, but I really doubt it. My mind was just so closed to dedede being scum, and I wasted the opportunity to engage him during N2. All-in-all, I don't think it would have changed the outcome much. Still though, we may have had a slightly higher chance at winning with a dead grush. Hadn't considered that. You're probably right that regardless of grush flipping town tali was going to be the next to go especially since he would be the other lynch candidate for 2 days in a row at that point. I feel bad for turning the game into a Risen vs. Igrok fest for quite some time, I just couldn't believe he actually thought he had "solved" anything where there was SO much that could still be in the air. I also wasn't convinced by anything he said regarding his decision to carry ms. Add onto this my feelings that the only people who "know" anything in a game are scum and I became gradually more and more convinced removing him would benefit town b/c it was clear if he was a townie he was blind to reason (convinced he had solved the game = unable to talk to) and if he was scum he was just shitting up the thread with inane arguments. My mistake, sorry guys. | ||
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HiroPro
United States2624 Posts
 But it's kind of the same theme that most town losses have: when town wastes their time arguing with each other, they tend to lose.Not rereading your filter after you died was really bad on my part. But day 2 I just got so sick and tired of the fight with iGrok. I wanted him dead even if it meant killing you, who (I was leaning town on). And then after both of you flipped town, I realized I was at huge risk of being lynched myself and really had nothing left myself. So I reread the filters of everyone who was still in the game. I read dedede's filter twice, but there was just nothing I saw there, so I just decided to call them town and move on. I read the last posts for you and iGrok, but both of you wanted to lynch grush, and by that point I was pretty sure that grush was town (simply because he would not have revealed the shot if he was mafia). But I really didn't feel like going through the whole dispute again so I didn't read your complete filters ( I don't think I ever really closely read the parts of the game where you argued for a dedede/cephiro scum team until now). I was so sure that talismania was scum, and I was leaning scum on Cephiro so when I saw HomerunBat's post on those two, that solidified the read for me and I decided to go with that as the scum team. It's not that I never considered dedede possibly being scum, but I never saw anything strong behavior-wise that tipped me off, so I just kept calling them town. I think s0Lstice is right that even if we had lynched grush, with the people who were still alive, the next lynch would have been talismania (if we made it through the night). | ||
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strongandbig
United States4858 Posts
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strongandbig
United States4858 Posts
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talismania
United States2364 Posts
if we lynched grush it would have been 3v2 and they could have used their 2.5 kp on mister saturn. | ||
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grush57
Korea (South)2582 Posts
Ty for hosting DOOOOOODS  | ||
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s0Lstice
United States1832 Posts
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talismania
United States2364 Posts
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Cephiro
Finland1934 Posts
I really enjoyed the game, and I excuse for my lack of participation in the post-game talk, but I've been getting ready for my military service that starts tomorrow. :x | ||
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Acrofales
Spain18155 Posts
GG everybody Gonna read the post-game analysis now, and post my own thoughts and comments! | ||
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Acrofales
Spain18155 Posts
I was fairly certain that at some point our role would be outed (either by a mass claim plan, a lynch, or because night actions didn't add up and someone suspected shenanigans). Artanis and I decided that the best way to deal with that was to preempt it. If we hadn't claimed, the second our role was outed we'd take a TON of suspicion for having one of the most unpredictable roles that can be used for great evil. We also slightly misunderstood the role, but that didn't really change much: we wanted to claim we'd use it as a medic role and then either "waste it" if it was unnecessary, or use it in devious ways. That explains the roleclaim. We also realized that town actually had more (in fact, a LOT more) KP available than scum, especially on D1. So part 2 of the plan was to play suboptimally insofar as pushing lynches, etc. goes, just so that we looked like town. I thought a town-me would've backed off Tali after that post of his, so we backed off. The hardest thing to do was deal with Risen's accusations convincingly, but I really feel he shot himself in the foot by raging at iGrok and accusing almost everybody (in addition to his very accurate figuring out of Cephiro and me). Finally, the plan to shoot Cephiro was quite obvious, really. I needed to use my bussing power convincingly and we didn't really care what townie took damage, as long as some townie got the receiving end of our KP. We happened to get really lucky that Risen was a DK and Grush also shot Cephiro. That worked out so amazingly well (if there had been a jigglypuff we might've been screwed and we knew it, but it was worth the shot anyway). The "town credit" was absolutely necessary to pull this off properly as well, and as it happened, only Risen saw through the ploy until it was far too late to do anything about it (although when I was reading through the last day I was afraid for a no-lynch, which would've made life a bit harder). Anyway, YAY scumteam and GG by everybody. @Toad: I said it in the QT and I will say it here again. Speculating about someone being scum because he has KP is not fun and should not be part of the game. I really think that in this kind of setup the host should say he randomized the alignments even if it's a blatant lie. I also agree that pressuring people to post their hydra QT/skypes should not be allowed, as it makes it virtually impossible to ever make hydras scum again. This as opposed to masons: if scum fake claim mason they better have the PMs to back that claim up! | ||
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Artanis[Xp]
Netherlands12968 Posts
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
On July 09 2012 07:45 Acrofales wrote: [...] @Toad: I said it in the QT and I will say it here again. Speculating about someone being scum because he has KP is not fun and should not be part of the game. I really think that in this kind of setup the host should say he randomized the alignments even if it's a blatant lie. I also agree that pressuring people to post their hydra QT/skypes should not be allowed, as it makes it virtually impossible to ever make hydras scum again. This as opposed to masons: if scum fake claim mason they better have the PMs to back that claim up! Well the point is that iGrok was in the game, he could have answered the question as well and at least he knew about it and could have told people anyways so I tried to make it sound as broad as it possibly could get and as mentioned I came up with different set-ups that I ended up rng-ing. I think actually should have said that lol. Edit: I think I should come up with some "classification" to come up with some way to truely randomize it under certain assumptions so that it makes sense.. Or just hit "random" until something comes out that makes sense :p About the posting hydra stuff: Yeah I agree, that was a bad call I did and won't allow that again. Obs-QT: http://www.quicktopic.com/47/H/pZcpVGtF8ShTx | ||
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Acrofales
Spain18155 Posts
Anyway, thanks alot for hosting. Was a fun, and very different game. | ||
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