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On July 01 2012 18:51 prplhz wrote:marvellosity shouldn't have shot VisceraEyes because it was pretty obvious that VisceraEyes wasn't scum. If he was scum then he would have lynched marvellosity when he had the chance for being vigilante who wanted to shoot him. Backing out of that should make it pretty clear to marvellosity that VisceraEyes was town. Really well done on the roleblocker lynch though, no clue how you pulled that off ('cause you refused to tell me other than "I spent 4 hours figuring it out!"  ).
You make some valid points in a couple of your posts this page
1) yes, my filter was abhorrently long. Fortunately by a certain stage people didn't have to read it anymore. One way or another I was a dominant factor in this game (for dominant, don't read good, just... prevalent). I got spammy at the end especially because I was fishing for information / trying to control town.
2) I should not have shot VE. I said so in obsQT. Basically my rational side was telling me it was a bad play but my emotional side of me wanted me to shoot VE. Even though I'd logically realised it was terrible, I couldn't stop myself :/
3) The roleblocker thing was a hunch based on how the game had played out. I drew on slOosh's earlier analysis and my own on how Snarfs had been taking more of a back seat than expected. And whether it was on purpose or not, it would be hard for scum, psychologically, to bus their roleblocker; it's their clutch role.
4) Despite how confident I appeared/looked during day 3, I still felt my ability to make reads had been compromised by events earlier in the game. On rastaban especially I drew heavily on how VE and Probulous had or hadn't viewed him, and I got confirmation bias from this. Unfortunately re:slOosh again, I didn't give enough weight to the fact that he ended up attacking rastaban having not done so originally (I believe I made a post on it in the thread somewhere). In fact, I did go back to look at xsksc's day 2 to see if he'd got a check as cop. I couldn't quite work it out, and the fact he subbed in not at the day post made me abandon my thought. Actually the first time I really really felt a tingle about rastaban was his vote on Snarfs day 3. He made up some bullshit one-line explanation of his vote, when really at that stage he'd set out his stall to sheep me, so he did not NEED to make that justification. It wasn't enough though (I wasn't swapping shraft and rastaban at that stage)
5) Shraft - hey man, I'm sorry for doing in miniature to you what VE did to me. I was relying on whoever the townie was (you) working out why I was behaving aloof / not willing to give information etc day 3. It was partly your job to help me 'see the light' on everything. But you didn't note prplhz couldn't be RB (which I'd fished for), you were lazily calling people scum (prplhz/rastaban) and you were heavily antagonising me.
6) VE - kinda agree with someone else that wbg laid into VE quite heavily, even if some of it was deserved. What I most liked about wbg's analysis there though is that he picked up on multiple times where VE was twisting or manipulating what I was saying. I tried on numerous occasions to point this out to town and all I got back was "uh, don't think he is really." This didn't help me out.
Thank you very much to the hosts of this game.
It was a clusterfuck but a massive learning experience for me. WoF I wasn't really involved and I got lynched, but this was the first game I was at serious risk of being lynched even though I really was trying hard. As such my ability to make reads while under heavy pressure suffered greatly.
Also, town won wtf fuck yes!!!! Probeyyyyy <3 I don't believe we won!!!
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No, he's not saying that prplhz. It's clear that the VE/marv clusterfuck prevented actual scumhunting for 2 cycles.
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jaj - re: rastaban, I merely meant in relation to the fact that slOosh DID end up finding him suspicious, not the fact he got nked.
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slOosh, I think you just need to push people to respond to you and your cases if they don't.
If you think you're on to something, you make a post, and it gets buried - don't drop it there. Redirect people back to it, when you're active in the thread and other people are active in the thread tell them, go look at my post and tell me what you think.
Much as though in a perfect world it would just take one post on an issue, that's not quite how mafia works. You need to push your points at people if they don't seem to be listening.
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On July 02 2012 09:06 Probulous wrote:
Ultimately Marv, all I wanted from you was a post that said clearly
"I didn't know how to answer the question so I pushed it back. I don't want this to contiue to shit up the thread so please drop it. I will take a look at my games and give you some thoughts in a little while." and then post something clear. It was your choice NOT to do this that made me think you were scum.
I don't really understand this line of thought. It's not alignment indicative either way. You don't think as scum I would want the noise and suspicion at me to go away?
What you suggest would have been best play FOR BOTH alignments, and my failure to do so would be a failure FOR BOTH alignments. Do you see?
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I don't honestly see how you think people thinking I'm scum would be a good scumplay. But there we go.
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We've already been over all of this so many times. If you still can't see it, me explaining it again isn't going to help
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On July 02 2012 09:21 slOosh wrote:Nah it's cool, nothing to apologize for. Show nested quote +On June 23 2012 08:41 slOosh wrote:
Mmm ... maybe I'm a bit rusty and my reading is a bit off. I'll review Snarfs on my own, but it seems like he won't be a lynch candidate today. Right now a lurker lynch is looking very good. Marv and VE regularly have been going at each others throats, and unless it is LI all over again, there is a good chance that they are both town. It's pretty destructive to town atmosphere so scum probably will be lazy / complacent, i.e. we can probably find some scum in that group. I was in LI when I saw the nastiest slugfest in the form of VE & Toad, but I knew that this probably wasn't a repeat since it is a mini and the cost / benefits is pretty high for a mini game to pull off the same stunt. There were too many people lurking / chilling to make me think that it could be one scum planning on going at a slugfest. I suspected maybe one was SK maybe but seriously the way that the discussion was going it was too messy to take out anything worthwhile, which is why I ignored that and went after other stuff. Now the personal take away lesson for me is how to make people listen to what I have to say / making sure my case doesn't get buried as collateral damage of said slugfest. Nothing on your part, I don't think. I liked your posting since you were contributing and stuff, and I guess I got sidetracked somehow when I got null response from you and prplhz and decided to go after you for some reason (maybe subconscious backlash?). e: ... got null response Concerning snarfs from you and prplhz ...
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On July 02 2012 19:25 prplhz wrote:
Yea I agree that we were handed this game on a silver platter by the VisceraEyes/marvellosity debacle and SK shooting into townies but we failed at LYLO. The two biggest things we did wrong was shoot Probulous over marvellosity. With a confirmed townie alive it is very hard to manipulate anything. We also talked in the QT about having Snarfs claim SK when he was up for lynch but that never amounted to anything.
Thanks for the analysis.
Yes, I feel like this justifies my position on day 3 of "you will do what I say because I say so".
Edit: to Snarfs claiming. Only SK was plausible. Correctly or not, I'd have dismissed a blue claim on balance (we already had 3 blues as strong as the previous game with 3 blues).
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Haven't you kinda answered your own question, Probey?
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I guess usually but not always it can be 2 townies flinging shit at each other.
It's already been mentioned that in a game this size it's very unlikely we're both scum.
So there are AT LEAST 2 other mafia and an SK (likely as not) out there for you to find that didn't involve us 2.
I think even though you put forward a bunch of decent logical arguments against me (although as discussed, flawed a little), you weren't at all sure yourself I was scum anyway.
Especially when you have slOosh thinking it's all much ado about nothing, it might pay to listen (risk too, etc)
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go back and read wbg's analysis too, because I *did* make points that VE was twisting and manipulating my words, and you and others said I didn't. You got confirmation bias.
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yes, VE. Funny that shooting you led me to finding and killing the RBer directly after, eh? 
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Of course not! I think we both learnt something from our prolonged exchange anyways
edit: and of course i should have fucking shot matt, lol. shooting you was the single worst play of the game.
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In Mafia you get wins you don't really deserve and losses you don't deserve either.
Think about the other factions. Mafia sat on their fucking ass all game and the SK managed to hit townies at the end when he was aiming for scum.
Anyway, you didn't really play badly. I still had a townread on you ^^
EDIT: To VE: I wouldn't have bloody had to shoot Matt if you hadn't unvoted him
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Obviously I'm only poking fun at VE. But it does go to show that despite all the shit that went on day 1 and day 2, we had actually arrived at a majority for a scum lynch on day 2 by hook or by crook, with just a little bit of emotion/bad luck that prevented it.
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On July 03 2012 07:51 Probulous wrote:
No matter how hard we tried we failed to lose this game
Swings and roundabouts dear. I had 3/4 scum day 2 in Magic Mini Mafia and town lost that one.
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hey bugs, HEY. Town won. TOWN WON yo.
But yeah the end was funny.
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On July 03 2012 14:34 Snarfs wrote:
One thing that pissed me off was the whole "Oh, he's being protected so he must be important scum" argument. As me and Mattchew showed and VE and Toad showed in LI and others have shown in the past, relying on connections is dumb as shit.
So you're calling me retarded for picking you out as roleblocker for reasons *you* fail to properly grasp. Thanks bro.
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On July 04 2012 12:06 Snarfs wrote:Show nested quote +On July 03 2012 19:32 marvellosity wrote:On July 03 2012 14:34 Snarfs wrote:
One thing that pissed me off was the whole "Oh, he's being protected so he must be important scum" argument. As me and Mattchew showed and VE and Toad showed in LI and others have shown in the past, relying on connections is dumb as shit. So you're calling me retarded for picking you out as roleblocker for reasons *you* fail to properly grasp. Thanks bro. I'm really sorry, I was drunk when I wrote that  . I didn't mean for it to come off as harsh as it did. You played well after the whole VE thing ended and deserved the win.
Thing is, normally I agree with you, one at a time. But when town are already outnumbered and you need to pick out a particular role, you have to be more wide-ranging.
Interestingly 'connections' suggested most of all a matt/prplhz/snarfs team, but my read on Shrafts screwed with this.
e.g. a couple of things from my notes on you:
"Day 1, wishy washy. pressures prplhz but never follows up."
"'attacks' matt but no real pressure."
On Matt:
"odd jibe at prplhz."
"attacks prplhz for timing on Zeph case. Backs down because of error. So just rastaban/marv."
or prplhz:
"kinda attacks matt"
i.e. a lot of interaction that wasn't REALLY interaction.
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EPT
