EPTTL Mafia LVI - Page 5
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NoSmurfHere
New Zealand613 Posts
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NoSmurfHere
New Zealand613 Posts
In this game he's done literally nothing. I liked Kurumi's post, it actually made me question my read on BKE. However the problem I have is that in past games scum are identified as people who need to die but they never die, thus winning the game later. I see that problem with grush. It's potentially true with casualman too but he apparently trolls just as hard normally. | ||
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NoSmurfHere
New Zealand613 Posts
On July 07 2012 07:26 VisceraEyes wrote: So you're saying you don't want to vote for BKE on the basis that "Oh sure he's probably scum, but this guy needs to die FIRST" ....is that what's going on here? My gut says BKE is town, but my gut has been wrong before. I'm not very confident in my reads ATM given the fact that I haven't had much time to read over the game and also how much resistance my pushes have faced. Maybe I'm being too weak-willed and this is an issue of confidence. Grush does need to die though. Do you agree? | ||
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NoSmurfHere
New Zealand613 Posts
Anyone who is still on Twelve or BKE after this is delusional. All votes must either be on Hyaach or Katina, and honestly I believe Hyaach to have a true read given how scummy I found Katina. Let's lynch her today since that didn't fly yesterday. If Katina flips scum or miller we basically know Hyaach is telling the truth. If she flips town we can reexamine things then, though I seriously doubt Hyaach as scum would have the balls to claim in such a situation where a claim is not needed by scum. If he were scum and knew one of BKE/twelve to be town he'd just push the lynch on the townie between them. ##unvote ##vote Katina | ||
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NoSmurfHere
New Zealand613 Posts
90+% sure this claim is legit and it helps that katina is one of my strongest scumreads. | ||
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NoSmurfHere
New Zealand613 Posts
It's moronic to lynch Hyaach right now because upon his claim everything about his play makes sense in retrospect. He had Katina as a scumread d1; plausible check. He had BKE as town but because of the d1 wagon probably decided to check him. Plausible check. Upon entering d2 he immediately attacks Katina. If he was scum literally the only way he could make this claim is if both twelve and BKE were scum, AND he planned it in advance. That's so incredibly unlikely given that even very experienced scum players can't fake a claim like that. | ||
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NoSmurfHere
New Zealand613 Posts
On July 07 2012 10:05 Kurumi wrote: Then we have different definitions of "commit to". He could've basically run around and scream Katina's name and that'd count? Yes, because that's what DTs on this forum have been doing for months! Most of them don't make real cases because they're overly afraid of getting shot. Hyaach isn't the type of player who even particularly pushes his cases hard normally. What do you think happens when he rolls blue? You lynch a claim if it seems out of place or is pushing a scum agenda. There is none of that here. As town it makes 100% sense and if Katina was framed that just means we got unlucky. We don't lynch the DT because he disregarded a frame possibility, that's what DTs do all the time (that is, blindly trust their checks) In this case, hhowever, it is NOT blind trust. I was one of the few players with a strong scumread on Katina. A DT comes in and confirms this read in a situation where the read was completely off the table for lynch. In other words, very very unlikely this is scum agenda. Scum wouldn't draw this much attention to themselves just to get a particular player lynched (especially as it would turn into 1 for 1, a huge loss for mafia) | ||
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NoSmurfHere
New Zealand613 Posts
"He must be lying" is all you've got? That's pretty pathetic. | ||
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NoSmurfHere
New Zealand613 Posts
Hahahaha this is priceless. You'd think that if I were sitting on a throne and waving town around I'd have gotten my choice of lynch (you or ShiaoPi) yesterday. | ||
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NoSmurfHere
New Zealand613 Posts
On July 07 2012 10:34 Twelve wrote: any other DT that can confirm these claims from Hyaach? What the fuck? I'm sure you're scum now too | ||
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NoSmurfHere
New Zealand613 Posts
Your story is kinda weird. If you were framed it doesn't necessarily mean Hyaach is lying. So if you claim to be framed why is your instant conclusion that Hyaach is a liar? I don't see the town motivation behind immediately claiming Hyaach is a liar without looking at the facts first. I had to actually go back to the OP and see if there were millers (there aren't) and to see how framers worked. (which Wiggles just clarified) So instead of looking over the facts, your instant conclusion is that Hyaach is lying. You say he has to be lying, without even considering for a moment the motivation behind the claim. What motivation would a scum Hyaach have to single YOU out, of all players? The only plausible explanation for that is you believe all three of BKE, Twelve, and Hyaach to be scum...which honestly, I find to be absurd, and you haven't pushed this notion anyway. Are you of that opinion? Thinking about it rationally, the only reason a scum would fakeclaim DT in this position is to save both BKE and Twelve, but then they would draw so much attention to themselves when their target flipped town that it would be simpler to paint one of BKE/Twelve as town and bus the hell out of the other. In fact it would be far more effective, even. Then the second part of your little tirade kicks in. If you got framed, why is it necessitated that Hyaach is lying? If you're of the opinion that you got framed then you should believe Hyaach's claim. Instead it seems like you've just started panicking and now all you can do is sling mud at the situation to try and make it go away. | ||
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NoSmurfHere
New Zealand613 Posts
DO NOT FORGET THIS QUOTE AND THE ONE THAT COMES AFTER IT. On July 07 2012 10:32 Twelve wrote: Alright I've read through Hyaach and Katina's filters and I don't see why you are trusting Hyaach over Katina. I had a strong town read on Katina, but after rereading, I realised it was because she defends me from lynches, but its always from one townie to another, so maybe she was exploiting knowing my alliance and trying to trick me into being an ally? Any thoughts? I'm feeling a but lost, but am willing to change my vote. Good god Hyaach if you are lieing about BKE....... It is here that Twelve essentially starts claiming scum. | ||
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NoSmurfHere
New Zealand613 Posts
On July 07 2012 10:57 Katina wrote: I do care.. The town is just about always half divided. BKE is green on your supposed "check" So trolls can't be Mafia? I find it interesting that you would let a troll live over someone who is posting their reads and trying to help the town find Mafia. You don't know what to make of yourself? Interesting. I would imagine you would have some idea by now. You never answered why you completely ignore grush the troll but not casualman the troll. What separates the trolls? | ||
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NoSmurfHere
New Zealand613 Posts
I think I figured out why everyone hates meta. Whenever it's used correctly, no one really notices. For example, I brought up Adam off-hand because I suspected him based on meta. The same thing happened in LI and he happened to be scum there too. I thought Zealos and Katina were scum in MTG off meta too. However, when someone incorrectly uses meta it's like the world has exploded. Everyone starts saying "oh I hate meta bla bla bla no one ever uses it correctly bla bla bla" which might very well be true, but I think it's this selective bias, just as people are biased against those who get one lynch wrong (even if their reads otherwise are very good) | ||
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NoSmurfHere
New Zealand613 Posts
On July 07 2012 11:08 Katina wrote: I don't know if I was framed or if Hyaach is lying. I have been looking over the facts this whole game. His motivation would be to go for someone in the spot light. With you on my back this whole game you gave him a nice target. As I have said numerous times I think BKE is Mafia and I'm not sure what to make of Hyaach anymore. Twelve I have a town read on. First reaction I had when I saw that red check was he had to be lying because I'm town. Then I read to see what roles could be in the game and noticed the Mafia could have a framer but since I think BKE is Mafia and apparently had a green check then it makes it hard for me to figure out which option it could be. If I had a town read on BKE this game then I would be more inclined to believe Hyaach's claim and conclude that I was framed. Again as I said Mafia don't play by one particular style that would make the games too easy. It depends on the Mafia team as well some could have jubjubs who do odd things while others have experienced players who do odd things. I'm not slinging mud and trying to make it go away. I'm trying to defend myself from being mislynched this game. I'm not the target you should be trying to get lynched. So with one vote on you and me backed off (because there was literally no chance I would get you lynched today) you consider yourself "in the spotlight?" In addition, if his motivation is to go after a townie in the spotlight (as scum) what happens when you flip town? He dies, right? What kind of shitty motivation for scum is that? He trades you, who have so far been pretty irrelevant in the matters for town, for himself. That's essentially like town losing four players all at once (when comparing team sizes) Why do you have a town read on Twelve? What makes him town? What makes BKE scum? If you're actually looking at the facts, why is it that you still haven't figured out which stance you want to take? | ||
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NoSmurfHere
New Zealand613 Posts
On July 07 2012 11:11 Katina wrote: What seperates them is that grush has posts where he actually says something. While casualman goes in active for almost the whole game and pops in to insult people or say "let's lynch this guy!!" I admit I have overlooked grush and a few other people this game. There have been others I can get an actual read on and casualman is just too bad and getting ignored too much to be true. Really? Which posts? So casualman is scum because he's bad? Since when has this been a criterion for lynching scum? | ||
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NoSmurfHere
New Zealand613 Posts
On July 07 2012 11:25 Katina wrote: People have put me up for a lynch candidate for most of the game. Just recently did everyone begin to back off and this red check comes up. Then when I flip town Hyaach can claim I was framed and use that as his scapegoat while protecting BKE. The lynch on Twelve got switched last minute I wouldn't put it past the town to do it again. Twelve has been here and contributing, he has defended himself to the last minute and still continues to post after escaping a lynch. Where if he were scum I would imagine he would go off into lala land like BKE does. BKE disappears and comes back when people start getting suspicious of him and put him up for lynch or he makes small comments on other people's post to make it look like hes contributing when in reality he isn't. He makes bad defenses and basically sheeps along with what all the other people are doing and pushing me on the side. I haven't figured out which stance to take because I think BKE is Mafia and I have been suspicious of Hyaach. If it turns out that Hyaach is telling the truth and I was framed then I will get down on my hands and knees and wash your feet in the most holiest of water. So...basically exactly what you've been doing all game? e: Good for you Maju, caught my point without me explicitly having to yell it aloud. | ||
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NoSmurfHere
New Zealand613 Posts
If we don't lynch Katina we lynch Twelve. The only reason we wouldn't lynch Katina is if we think she might've been framed. However, this DT claim is almost certainly legitimate and I'm of the opinion that we shouldn't screw ourselves out of a correct (IMO) lynch by wondering whether she was framed or not. Assuming the claim is legitimate then both BKE and Hyaach are definitely town (2 godfathers in the game would be pretty unprecedented, bastard almost) and as of now I see no reason to doubt the claim. | ||
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NoSmurfHere
New Zealand613 Posts
However the only time I can recall ever seriously considering you scum was MTG and you actually were scum there. | ||
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NoSmurfHere
New Zealand613 Posts
I'm a little mad and frustrated now (and it's 1 in the morning) so I'll be around for questions and whatnot and reading the thread but I won't write anything major till later tomorrow. As I have a midterm on Monday I won't be as active as I have been. | ||
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